Studs, stems, and femmes...OH MY.. :)

[owen4u1904]

:waitinggirl:

After coming out back in December since I told my sister I liked chicks and then her telling my mom who then went to telling my brother and my dad. They all think its a phase. I have talked to some people about this, but not many. And my belief is that they think its a phase because they do not know much about lesbians all the way. Society still likes to show mainly butches, you got ellen and rosie on tv. And other more "butch" type of lesbians. Hardly ever do you see "single" and "butch" lesbians much. I am very much single thank you very much and love it. Besides that though, I was so trying to figure myself out and yes I know I should not care about labels but it was getting on my nerves. For awhile I thought I was an ftm, yessir....I said it, an ftm and if someone says something to me about it I think it is starting to become clearer (sp?) to me that I am attracted to ftms more then I am one. I have thought heavily about that one for the past 4 months or so. But then I kinda went and did a search more on black lesbians. Because of course I love darker chicks sometimes and I kinda am one when people talk to me about personality. Whatever that means. I was kinda like DAMN, our "lesbian world" has way to many def for people to fit into. We have so many ways to not only say we are a lesbian but we then fit ourselves into an ever smaller category. But at the end of day and all that kinda talk above...I found myself to be a stem. :) I am unable to locate a stem or stud convo/thread on here anywhere

But what I found about what a stud is...they are kinda like thuggish more then a butch. I have asked people about butch dress I guess you could say. And they all seem to say that a stud is basically the ghetto version of a butch.

And then there is obviously the femme, but there is the ghetto femme. :)

And then there is me...a stem. I very much go either way. I still dont like labels and never will but something tells me we are not over this fight with society and we will prolly always have convos or discussions about what we are.

So I am just going to leave it at this and see what everyone thinks about this. :)

[Martina]

i have never heard the word "stem," but you got me to look it up. Thanks for the new word! i have lost interest in these convos. I spent the morning watching Afghan Star. I am going to hobble around mowing the lawn. And probably read a little Russian history. A team of oxen couldn't pull me into a gender theory conversation. BUT, thanks for the new term and good luck with your thread.

[TenderKnight]

Hiya, rbently!

Congradulations on finding that long, twisting road called gender identity! lol.. I haven't ever heard the term "stem" either, but will have to google it..

I identify as a transgender guy.. But I may not always do so.. Since I came out at 18 I've labled myself as lesbian, butch, TG butch, boi, boy, human, fag, queer, and now just transguy.. I also ID'd as Stone for a while, because of the not wanting to be seen as a woman thing and and not wanting to be treated as a woman. *shrug*

I do have to say though.. Ellen and Rosie are not Butch, at least, not in my book.. They are lesbains.. And studs are not the "ghetto" butch.. That is kinda like saying that a black man is the "ghetto" version of the white man.. Stud is a term all it's own, like butch, but owned by many, not just "darker" folks.. Stud rose from it's own history, just like butch did. This is not an attack, please don't take it as such.. I am just sharing my view here :)

I wish you well on your life's journey, and just remember, no matter what term you use to define what you are, remember to be honest with yourself first, before trying to be honest with the world.. This is something I had to learn, and it can be a hard lesson at times.. lol

In Light,
Tony

PS- OK, I give up.. what is the deffinition of stem? I googles it, and found notta.. Is it your own self-made term? lol.. sorry, will bug me if I don't KNOW :) Thanks!

[Jet]

what's a stem?
:|

[Tucker]

The part of the flower the holds the leaves and is usually green?

[TenderKnight]

The part of the flower the holds the leaves and is usually green?

lol.. That's what I found.. Of course, I'm such a perv, the first thing that came to mind was "e-stem".. lol

[Tucker]

Hmmm I've been told my legs are nice stems

[owen4u1904]

Hiya, rbently!

Congradulations on finding that long, twisting road called gender identity! lol.. I haven't ever heard the term "stem" either, but will have to google it..

I identify as a transgender guy.. But I may not always do so.. Since I came out at 18 I've labled myself as lesbian, butch, TG butch, boi, boy, human, fag, queer, and now just transguy.. I also ID'd as Stone for a while, because of the not wanting to be seen as a woman thing and and not wanting to be treated as a woman. *shrug*

I do have to say though.. Ellen and Rosie are not Butch, at least, not in my book.. They are lesbains.. And studs are not the "ghetto" butch.. That is kinda like saying that a black man is the "ghetto" version of the white man.. Stud is a term all it's own, like butch, but owned by many, not just "darker" folks.. Stud rose from it's own history, just like butch did. This is not an attack, please don't take it as such.. I am just sharing my view here :)

I wish you well on your life's journey, and just remember, no matter what term you use to define what you are, remember to be honest with yourself first, before trying to be honest with the world.. This is something I had to learn, and it can be a hard lesson at times.. lol

In Light,
Tony

PS- OK, I give up.. what is the deffinition of stem? I googles it, and found notta.. Is it your own self-made term? lol.. sorry, will bug me if I don't KNOW :) Thanks!



Thank you for clearing that up or at least putting in your thoughts. Which when it comes to discussions I love this kind of stuff. I hardly get any kind of gender or idendity talks in my community and my family. So I kind of have to talk it out in my head. I never really did my history look up on studs. I just went by what other people said/say. Anyways for you and jet both to know what I at least believe a stem is, according to the people I have talked to a stem is basically like a stud but also femme at the same time. I take it as the way we dress, or at least the way I dress. My days very, some days I like to be more "girly" and others more "boyish". And like I kinda mentioned before I dont like labels and society likes to do that people. I consider myself to enjoy fashion and clothes. And I appreciate things in my own eyes....enough of the mumble. Yea, that def is what a stem for me is.

I am not sure though if stem is just now like a new word because most people I have talked to about is like in their early 20s and late teens. I never did figure that one out.

[TenderKnight]

Hey, no problem :)

So, stem is kinda like "tweener".. in between both.. lol Of course, tweener can be seen as a derogatory term, used for those that are inbetween butch and femme, but not always.

Oy, thanks for making me feel old! lmao.. just kidding.. so, the kids these days are saying "stem" instead of tweener.. good to know :)

So, to be clear.. stem is a combo of stud and femme, shortened to form "stem"

Ahhh.. kids these days! lol

About gender and identity discussions, I enjoy them too.. It can be a weird topic for some, but the way I see it, we as humans like to put things into boxes, lable them and make them "safe" and easy to digest. Much easier to say, "ok, that is a female born person that likes to dress in clothing that is made for people born as males. This person also happens to enjoy spending time and dating a female identified (oh lord, I am not going to try to describe all the kinds of *femme* energy there is!) person that enjoys spending time and dating a person that maybe female bodied, but does not hold to societies' normal preception of "female". That is Butch/Femme energy." see? lables work to shorten that in a way that is easy to explain.

At least, i think it is.. I just re read that paragraph and got a little confused.. lmao

In any case, lables can be helpful to identifing one's self as well as others.. But, on the other hand, they can also lead to stereotypes and preconceived notions that may not be true..

OK, I'm gonna stop here, cause Lord knows tthat I can ramble on about this.. lol

Thank you for the info on what stem is.. I will rest a little easier tonight because of it.. ;)

In Light,
Tony

[The_Lady_Snow]

:waitinggirl:

After coming out back in December since I told my sister I liked chicks and then her telling my mom who then went to telling my brother and my dad. They all think its a phase. I have talked to some people about this, but not many. And my belief is that they think its a phase because they do not know much about lesbians all the way. Society still likes to show mainly butches, you got ellen and rosie on tv. And other more "butch" type of lesbians. Hardly ever do you see "single" and "butch" lesbians much. I am very much single thank you very much and love it. Besides that though, I was so trying to figure myself out and yes I know I should not care about labels but it was getting on my nerves. For awhile I thought I was an ftm, yessir....I said it, an ftm and if someone says something to me about it I think it is starting to become clearer (sp?) to me that I am attracted to ftms more then I am one. I have thought heavily about that one for the past 4 months or so. But then I kinda went and did a search more on black lesbians. Because of course I love darker chicks sometimes and I kinda am one when people talk to me about personality. Whatever that means. I was kinda like DAMN, our "lesbian world" has way to many def for people to fit into. We have so many ways to not only say we are a lesbian but we then fit ourselves into an ever smaller category. But at the end of day and all that kinda talk above...I found myself to be a stem. :) I am unable to locate a stem or stud convo/thread on here anywhere

But what I found about what a stud is...they are kinda like thuggish more then a butch. I have asked people about butch dress I guess you could say. And they all seem to say that a stud is basically the ghetto version of a butch.

And then there is obviously the femme, but there is the ghetto femme. :)

And then there is me...a stem. I very much go either way. I still dont like labels and never will but something tells me we are not over this fight with society and we will prolly always have convos or discussions about what we are.

So I am just going to leave it at this and see what everyone thinks about this. :)

um

stud does not equate ghetto version of a butch. It's a cultural term, and I don't even know what to say about the ghetto femmes and how you refer to women of color as *darker chicks*

I did learn that stem existed though I can't find it anywhere either. Good luck on your gender journey.

[owen4u1904]

um

stud does not equate ghetto version of a butch. It's a cultural term, and I don't even know what to say about the ghetto femmes and how you refer to women of color as *darker chicks*

I did learn that stem existed though I can't find it anywhere either. Good luck on your gender journey.

I feel really bad after your pointed that. I guess where I am coming from and I have met quite a few guys who describe a lighter black girl and darker black girl or they just say I like dark chicks or girls who are white. I prolly have hung out with them way to long and just kinda started talking like them. Speaking of "darker chicks" I must say the guys I have hung out with, some of them, not all kind of expressed how they liked girls to be like black black like dark. Not someone to be of more a lighter color. And I got really mad about it. I was only close to a couple of the guys who said it and made it clear my feelings on that. But yea, sorry lady snow. :(

[The_Lady_Snow]

I feel really bad after your pointed that. I guess where I am coming from and I have met quite a few guys who describe a lighter black girl and darker black girl or they just say I like dark chicks or girls who are white. I prolly have hung out with them way to long and just kinda started talking like them. Speaking of "darker chicks" I must say the guys I have hung out with, some of them, not all kind of expressed how they liked girls to be like black black like dark. Not someone to be of more a lighter color. And I got really mad about it. I was only close to a couple of the guys who said it and made it clear my feelings on that. But yea, sorry lady snow. :(

I have lived in the area where you live and am fully aware of how some guys speak about or refer to WOC as. It's pretty racist and ugly how they speak about WOC so unfortunately if set me off a bit...

I hope that if you do start dating WOC you do not refer to them as such, even amongst these *friends*.

[Lynn]

This is one of the few places that I'm willing to step out of my comfort zone. I truly wish you well on your journey of discovery, and I'm always up for an intelligent, well-considered discussion of gender and identity. But, the way you have expressed yourself is offensive to me. It's very hard to get past the stereotypes and, what I feel are racist connotations of your statements to actually offer anything valuable to your main point. I don't know you, and I realize that self-expression can be a minefield on the internet. But. Man. You might get more involvement and more helpful feedback if you would tone down the stereotypes.

[Bit]

Okay. I guess I'm officially a dinosaur now. *here, I'll prove it, oy*

rbentley, when I was in my twenties, *see? dinosaur, oy!* we had a word for what you call "stem." It was "lesbian."

It's still a pretty good word. There are no restrictions on what clothes a lesbian can wear, or what energy a lesbian can express... which yanno, is the whole point of being a lesbian: being free to be exactly who a person is, even if that changes from day to day.

I get the idea from your post that you chose "stem" not because you like it, not because it fully explains you, but just because other people around you use it. So when you say there are too many labels and that they confuse you, well, why not drop the confusing one?

You don't have to accept what other people choose as labels, and then somehow force yourself to fit into one. Choose one that makes sense to you, that resonates with you--or choose to be label-free, if you prefer--but this gender walk is your own personal journey and that means YOU get to choose how you identify. That's not for your friends to say, yanno?

Thank you for the apology about some of your earlier statements. I think quite often people don't realize that the way people around them usually talk might be racist or sexist. Understanding our society's built in racism and sexism is part of that gender walk, btw--in my opinion, a person cannot truly understand who they are and what that means without also understanding how society shapes us all, and what forces work both for and against a person's ability to express their gender completely.

I'm sorry that your family is insisting that you're only going through a phase. I'm sure my family thought the same about me. Eventually they had to give in and accept that anything which lasts a lifetime cannot be "just a phase."

[NorCalStud]

Dont be afraid of words...be aware of attitude. Curiosity/ domination....How do we walk on the earth? Are we reverant in our communication or arrogant... Above all...we....must...provide safe places to discuss racism. Imagine approaching each post with candle and insence and curiosity.
The younger generation ameliorate words. Thank goodness. It is part of integration. Yes words perpetuate general myths and we have to watch for that and continue to widen the circle