Top 10 Lesbian Myths

[Jett]

Top 10 Myths About Lesbians

1. LESBIANS HATE MEN

No, actually I found most lesbians love men, and have many men in their lives. Many have been married to men, though perhaps not in love they loved their spouse as friends. Lesbians also love their fathers and brothers, sons, and friends. There are some people who hate men, just as often it's straight women (even some men do). Actually to be frank, I've found in my experience more men hate lesbians, than the opposite (ironically these people are probably most readily identified by their statements about "lesbians hate men").

Some gay, straight women and men do hate the violence that men commit against women, and many have first hand experience with that, and the condition of the world and second class status of women under the current patriarchy. These things could result in hating men. But lesbians are more often said to be man-haters because it is not understood that females can love other females because they are naturally attracted to the spirituality, emotional make-up, and unique sexuality of other women. It's also used as a way to discredit the ability of women to live lives outside of the need for men. But just because you're not attracted to someone, doesn't mean you hate them, that's kindergarten thinking. People who hate men are called "Misandrists", not "lesbians".

2. LESBIANS WANT TO BE MEN

No, this one is especially attributed to "butch" lesbians. In reality people who are brave and brazen enough be a non-conformist against the hetero-normative expectations of sexual orientation are also more prone to non-comformative behaviors in social sexual dress codes. Many in this choose to dress in more androgynous or more masculine ways that make them feel comfortable in who they are. In reality many heterosexual people dress in more non-conformative ways as well. People who's minds are the opposite sex of their body are called Transsexuals, not lesbians.

3. LESBIANS SHOULDN'T WORK WITH CHILDREN

Lesbians should work with children. Perhaps the next generations could learn from the get-go what normal, loving, caring everyday people we all are no matter our sexual orientation. Lesbians aren't interested in children sexually, that is called a Pedophile, and 98% of them are straight men abusing young girls.


4. LESBIANISM IS OK, AS LONG AS THEY KEEP QUIET AND KEEP IT OUT OF SIGHT

Ahhhhhhh no, lesbians are A-ok all around. Homosexuality is not abnormal, it is not a "human deviation", it is found regularly in nature in animals of all species. What's not ok is discrimination and violence against them because of their visibility, what abnormal is lobotomy's and shock treatments that were given to people because they fell in love with someone that wasn't the opposite sex. It's not ok to deny housing, jobs, hospital visitation of dying spouses, it's not ok to kill, rape and beat people because of their sexual orientation... maybe if all that stopped you'd get your wish and we'd be more quiet.

5. ALL LESBIANS ARE JUST ANGRY FEMINISTS

Not all lesbians are feminist, there are some lesbians are in the feminist movement in an effort to further the rights of all women lesbian or not. The feminist movement has greatly improved the lives of all queer females and straight women alike. Lesbians who are feminists have also been a huge part and greatly furthered the LGQBTI movement for all homosexuals and trans persons as well. It's called fighting for equal rights for everyone... not we want more than you... we want the same as you. If you're experiencing "angry lesbian feminists" perhaps they're just mad at you for calling them that or something else you did.

6. LESBIANS HAVE PENIS ENVY.

First of all sexuality and sexual orientation is about the person and not a sex organ. A person may desire the experience of penetration or giving another that experience through the use of sexual toys. Second not all dildos are penis replica's, some are some aren't. I know it may be difficult to comprehend but there is more to sexual orientation than fixation on genitals, and really most lesbians aren't thinking about a lot about penis's, that's probably important to try to remember.

7. LESBIANS WHO LOVE BUTCH LESBIANS SHOULD JUST FIND A MAN.

This is an easy one, one word... L-E-S-B-I-A-N. But to be even clearer, butch lesbians aren't men... wait (checks and cleans my spectacles and looks again) nope, still not men. With that I'll leave you with one more deep sobering thought to ponder...L-E-S-B-I-A-N

8. LESBIANS ARE UGLY WOMEN WHO CAN'T FIND MEN

Nope! Lesbians are women with all different types of physical characteristics, just- like- any- other- group- within- the- human- sexes. Blond, brunette, red heads, raven haired, short, tall, fat, skinny, long haired, short haired women of all colors and races that simply don't desire men. Again, many lesbians have been married and had boyfriends. If it was about being ugly, there are some of ugly men out there to pair up and not so hard to find that anyone would need to change sexual orientation over it.

9. LESBIANS ARE OUT TO CONVERT YOUNG GIRLS (RECRUITING)
Lesbians are not interested in conversion or force. As lesbians they know well the feeling of having another's ideas of sexuality force fed to them. They are acutely and especially aware sexual orientation isn't something somebody can talk you into. There is no "lesbian dust" we sprinkle on people... get real (but if there was I'd throw it on you).

10. LESBIANS JUST HAVEN"T FOUND THE RIGHT MAN YET

Really, no, some haven't found the right woman yet, and if they haven't found the right man it's because there isn't one... the important thing to remember here is, they're gay, so stop hitting on them stupid.

---

Lesbians and Dykes (I prefer "Big Ol' Damn Dyke" if you're name calling, thank you) often do have an agenda. I know, see you were right, we want something. I found most of us seem for the most part hell bent on finding a life partner, someone to share the daily grind with, to love, laugh and cry with. Some would like a family, a home and a dog or cat. They may also seek community... not always successfully.

And yes, they also seem to often care about equal rights for themselves and their families, and sometimes just want to be safe.

But if you find all this lacking, and want to hear me say something really awful about lesbians... there is this.

Lesbians in South Africa today are being murdered and raped daily by men trying to "cure" them of their sexuality. The sexual attacks are called "corrective rape" of which 10 new cases are reported each week. Of the men who are brought to trial, only 1 in 25 will be convicted.

Though it's far away, and an extreme example, this is not something that's isolated and far away. Lesbians are raped, beaten and killed for there sexuality on every continent. If you Google "lesbian raped" you'll receive over 40,000 hits... admittedly these are not all real cases... many are ads for porn videos depicting lesbians being raped. Yeah I know, not so funny.

[SuperFemme]

you forgot:

All lesbians have short hair/are butch

While there are some women who look more masculine than others, the general lesbian population looks pretty much like the general female population. Some have short hair, some have long, some wear makeup, some don't.

You can tell which women are lesbians and which aren't just by looking at them
I hate to break it to the masses, but there is no set of signs or mannerisms that identify lesbians to the general public. There are a select few women who are noticeably gay, usually identifiable by the rainbow stickers on their cars or the pink triangles on their lapels, but most of us look like everybody else. Many gay people claim that they can spot other gay people by using a special power called "gaydar," but for the most part there is no way to know for sure. It would be handy for me if there were some way to pick lesbians out of the crowd in order to avoid the embarrassing situation of crushing out on a straight woman, but until we figure out some kind of universal secret handshake, getting to know people and finding out the old-fashioned way (prying) is the only surefire method.

We can change and be straight if we want to (because it's a choice)
Conversely, straight people can become gay if they really want to. Try suggesting this to someone like George W. Bush or Dr. Laura and see what happens. In my opinion, sexual orientation is not a choice any more than height and eye color are. True, some gay people try to mask their orientation and attempt to be straight. Some people wear lifts and tinted contacts, too.
Putting anyone into a box based solely on sexual orientation, or skin color, or religion isn't fair. Keep in mind that people are incredibly diverse and have a lot more going for them than any one aspect. I think that all of us should make it our goal this year to make friends with one person who's very different than us (I'’ll be on the lookout for a right wing republican straight male). I'll bet that all of us will find ourselves pleasantly surprised, and be the better for it.

[Dylan]

Lesbians grew up with bad relationships with their fathers or other men in their lives, and that's why they reject men


Were We Supposed To Add To The List?,
Dylan

[SuperFemme]

Lesbians grew up with bad relationships with their fathers or other men in their lives, and that's why they reject men


Were We Supposed To Add To The List?,
Dylan


I don't know, but I couldn't help myself.

[Ms. Tabitha]

Being a lesbian is just a phase.

Someone made her a lesbian

Lesbians are promiscuous.

If you have friends who are lesbian's, that must mean you are also a lesbian as well.

Lesbians are always easy to identify.

AND

Just because your a lesbian does not mean you drag a U-Haul to your second date!!

[Jett]

Lesbians grew up with bad relationships with their fathers or other men in their lives, and that's why they reject men


Were We Supposed To Add To The List?,
Dylan

Any inputs all good...

Metro

[Jett]

..........
Just because your a lesbian does not mean you drag a U-Haul to your second date!! [/CENTER]

Heh... oml... yeah that one.

[apretty]

no mom, all lesbians don't want to do you.

[Medusa]

How about that fact that we all eat hummus, have hairy armpits, and wear Birkenstocks.

(some of us do! - some of us dont!)

[UofMfan]

We all love the Indigo girls :blink:

Can you post a picture of your mom apretty? :)

[weatherboi]

the second date uhaul theory has been replaced with a turkey baster and the best male friend being brought to the second date.

ridiculous huh?



Just because your a lesbian does not mean you drag a U-Haul to your second date!! [/CENTER]

[apretty]

Can you post a picture of your mom apretty? :)

cracking up! u hush!

[SuperFemme]

How about that fact that we all eat hummus, have hairy armpits, and wear Birkenstocks.

(some of us do! - some of us dont!)

how could you leave out patchouli oil? the inhumanity!

[DapperButch]

Myth:

Children adopted by lesbian parents have a greater chance of being gay themselves.

[Soon]

Myth:

Children adopted by lesbian parents have a greater chance of being gay themselves.

On this note, and any other myths that contend that lesbians aren't suited to parenthood, a new study just came out:

Study: Children of Lesbians May Do Better Than Their Peers (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1994480,00.html)

[UofMfan]

On this note, and any other myths that contend that lesbians aren't suited to parenthood, a new study just came out:

Study: Children of Lesbians May Do Better Than Their Peers (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1994480,00.html)

Great link, thanks. As a parent of a wonderful son I know this first hand.

[Ms. Tabitha]

how could you leave out patchouli oil? the inhumanity!

Patchouli Oil....on a flannel shirt, since you know ONE of the lesbians HAS to to be the "Man" :|

[The_Lady_Snow]

Myth:

All lesbians are vanilla......:eatinghersheybar:

[SuperFemme]

Myth:

Children adopted by lesbian parents have a greater chance of being gay themselves.

I was adopted by straight parents.

Not so much on the hand me down.

[Martina]

<-- wears Berkies, has hairy pits at the moment, and eats the hummus. :(


Lesbians need to process everything.

Lesbians don't like raunchy sex. They just cuddle and lick.

Lesbian feminists are humorless.

[Jett]

Myth:

All lesbians are vanilla......:eatinghersheybar:

Which brings up the lesbian sex is "mutual masterbation" myth. I mean really I'm not even sure how that works.

I can just hear it now yelled across a bed:

"Are you there yet?"
"No"
"Are you there yet?"
"No"
"Are you there yet?"
"Noooo!"
"Are you thinking of me?"
"No... I mean yes... damn it, I was so close that time!"

[AtLast]

Insert ALL in front of these.....

Lesbians do not understand the B-F dynamic.

Lesbians are anti-trans.

Lesbians are not stylish.

Lesbians are anti-kink/BDSM, stone and anti-dildos.

Lesbians hate men.

Lesbians hate butches.

Lesbians hate femmes.

Lesbians are the enemy of the TIQ segement of the umbrella LGBTIQ community.

Lerbians must have equal numbers of orgasms in the very same manner every time they make love and they keep records (just saw a post in a thread referring to this!!!

Lesbians are anti-masculine.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I remember when I was Bar tending at the G-spot, a private members women's club, it was the day after pride and the upstairs had a few gals reclining, talking, reading, eating. A guy burst in (unmarked building but I'm sure word got round) with his shirt off and some homophobic saying on his chest in Jiffy marker (I can't recall what it was, too long ago). He pointed and said "YOU ALLL HAVE PENIS ENVY!"
No one reacted, people kept talking. One gal who was reading said "no. I think you'll find our cocks are much bigger than yours." and went back to reading.

I told him it was a private members club and he'd have to leave. He wanted to join, how much was a membership. "of course you can join. $200,000 please."

he left without too much fuss, but I recall him not having a comeback for the assertion about penis envy.

[SuperFemme]

YwqQ82TJ7Qs

[Lynn]

<-- wears Berkies, has hairy pits at the moment, and eats the hummus. :(


Lesbians need to process everything.

Lesbians don't like raunchy sex. They just cuddle and lick.

Lesbian feminists are humorless.


...and they like vegetarian potluck dinner parties. At least, I do.
And, after dinner, they form a drumming circle in the backyard and howl at the moon. I don't do this, but some of my best friends do.

[Jess]

...and they like vegetarian potluck dinner parties. At least, I do.
And, after dinner, they form a drumming circle in the backyard and howl at the moon. I don't do this, but some of my best friends do.

I have yet to figure out why there are always at least five bean dishes at these potlucks.

rapataptappin on the drum

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[Cyclopea]

Here is the #1 Number one, mind you! Hit on youtube when searching "lesbian dyke"
*pukes a little in my mouth*
VZlHJxZIUik

[LipstickLola]

Jerry Springer makes my butt wanna chew my shirttail....just sayin :|

[silentshout]

myth: All lesbians use strap-ons.

myth: All lesbians like chocolate ice cream.


and ect.

[Nat]

...and they like vegetarian potluck dinner parties. At least, I do.
And, after dinner, they form a drumming circle in the backyard and howl at the moon. I don't do this, but some of my best friends do.

I wanna have a drum circle and howl at the moon. :)

About seven years ago I went swimming at night at Barton springs in Austin (it's a huge freezing swimming pool, spring-fed and very natural looking). It happened to be a full moon night, and all these people showed up and began howling at the moon. I was down in the dark cold water and with the full moon above me and human howls coming from all sides. The greater part of me at the time felt like this was an odd and somewhat silly and very Austin experience. Since then, though, there have been nights when I wish I could go back there to that moment and join the human howling at the moon. It seems like howling is such a lonely sound and the visceral sharing of and in loneliness in the cold dark water is a moment I want back. I was alone all the time back then - no matter how many people I knew - and I didn't yet know the sound of my own voice.

[Nat]

When I was still living my straight life, I had some stereotypes of lesbians. I thought the were laid back and happy and care free and enjoyed barbecues and parties and laughed long and hard and were inclusive and supportive of other women. Oh, and that they adored their animals.

I think I got these ideas from watching backstage footage of the indigo girls at Lilith faire and by watching my lesbian next-door neighbors as I grew up.

And mostly I thought they were stronger than I.

[JustBeingMe]

Which brings up the lesbian sex is "mutual masterbation" myth. I mean really I'm not even sure how that works.

I can just hear it now yelled across a bed:

"Are you there yet?"
"No"
"Are you there yet?"
"No"
"Are you there yet?"
"Noooo!"
"Are you thinking of me?"
"No... I mean yes... damn it, I was so close that time!"

OMFG>>>>>ROFL>>>>>>>LMFAO at this one. Thanks Met.

[JustBeingMe]

OH and don't forget this one...............
Lesbianism is CONTAGIOUS.......:runforhills:

Hmm, I wonder whom I caught it from? :seeingstars:



I'll be back at a later date to post more when I have more time.

Thanks Met for starting this thread, it's making me laugh already.

[1PlayfulFemme]

myth: All lesbians use strap-ons.

myth: All lesbians like chocolate ice cream.


and ect.

OMG! We DON'T all like chocolate ice cream?????? (Are we even HUMAN then???) ;)

[1PlayfulFemme]

OH and don't forget this one...............
Lesbianism is CONTAGIOUS.......:runforhills:

Hmm, I wonder whom I caught it from? :seeingstars:



I'll be back at a later date to post more when I have more time.

Thanks Met for starting this thread, it's making me laugh already.

*Laughing* Just...clearly..you caught it the same place most of us did...our first girlfriends! ;) (I know it worked for me anyway) :D

[nicetgurl_30]

Can fix cars
Doesn't like to wear make-up
Worships Ellen
Aggressive

[FR]

-- cuddle and lick? omg we are all cats...

[Nat]

I mother lesbian tell menonce that I wasn't a true lesbian unless I watched gay male porn. :)

[Nat]

I mother lesbian tell menonce that I wasn't a true lesbian unless I watched gay male porn. :)

Jesus I gotta proof-read better. My iphone and my fingers are not the best of friends.

This was supposed to read, "Another lesbian told me once that I wasn't a true lesbian unless I watched gay male porn. :)"

I promise I'm not drunk.

yet.

[faymie]

Thanks for all the wonderful reflections. I am lesbian--and femme. Probably could have figured myself out sooner if there had not been so many 'myths.'

I've been playing in the arcade for a while now. This is my first post to the fora!

Faymie

[Kobi]

Thanks for all the wonderful reflections. I am lesbian--and femme. Probably could have figured myself out sooner if there had not been so many 'myths.'

I've been playing in the arcade for a while now. This is my first post to the fora!

Faymie

Welcome Faymie.

Yes, there are so many myths and stereotypes, it's amazing any of us got this far.

[Nat]

The myth of inevitable lesbian bed death probably added years to my closet-time.

[Rope]

That is why I have always found a difference between lesbians and butch/femme. In my unscientific surveying, butch/femme has less bed death because we tend to have elements of sexuality in our identity. It's a more cock centric vs. dildo centric identification--butch cock that is.

I don't identify as a lesbian, I identify as a butch. I feel I am on the male side of butch and prefer 'hy' rather than she as a pronoun, it's not much deeper of an identification than that. That said, no, I do not want to be a man as some would think that myth goes--the more masculine the butch, the more they want to be a man.

Rope--

[BullDog]

Myth: butches and femmes are not lesbians.

Reality: Many of us are both.

[Nat]

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd. :)

[BullDog]

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd. :)

Yes, I agree. I am a butch with a cock, no dildo-centrism here. However I also find the notion that butch femme sex to be cock-centric to be quite inaccurate as well as offensive. Also femmes have cocks as well as butches. People (whatever their sexuality or gender identity may be) can enjoy sex without a penis, cock, dildo etc. being "centric." I also don't see butch femme sexuality (whatever that is supposed to be) to be centered around butch.

[Rope]

Hmm, not sure why you're offended. I certainly did not mean to imply that butch/femme cock centric sex was the ONLY way we know how to entertain ourselves. My main distinction was the difference between butch cock and lesbian dildos (many of the lesbians I know are quite offended that SOME butches think of it as their butch cock and not a toy).

[BullDog]

First of all, many butches and femmes are also lesbians, so the reasoning doesn't make any sense (less bed death for butch-femme vs lesbian).

Second of all, butches aren't the only ones with cocks.

Third, butch femme sexuality isn't cock-centric or centered around butches.

Oh and the thought of lesbian sex (lesbians who don't view themselves or their partners as having a cock) as dildo-centric just makes me laugh, lol.

Even if there supposedly was some distinction between seeing sex centered around a cock vs. a dildo, how would that make a difference in less bed death anyway? One is considered a toy and one is not???? That makes for less bed death?

[Nat]

I am not partnered with a butch and I am *very happy* with what happens in my bed.

I have in the past enjoyed the "company" of butches and bois (lesbian-identified and not, stone and not), cismen, transmen, androgynous lesbians, feminine lesbians and one straight girl. Of the butches, some were cock-centric, some didn't even want to consider wearing one, some wanted to be slapped, some wanted to be called Daddy. Some were mostly hands-on, some were mostly on their backs, etc. It seemed to me there was no rule about how a butch f*cks any more than there's a rule about how anybody else does.

I have zero complaints regarding the "butch cock" but (to me) it's not a magic wand and you don't have to be butch to have an immersive, visceral experience wearing one. :) And for those butches who don't identify with or enjoy the experience, I don't think that subtracts from their inherent butchness one iota.

I really haven't noticed a huge correlation between people's identities and what they do in bed, with the exception of the term "stone" which still varies a lot from person to person.

PS. I'm not offended - I just don't want have one very specific myth of butch-femme sex - or lesbian sex - to be perpetuated unchecked. There are lesbians who take their cocks very seriously (like me) and there are lesbians who consider them toys and there are lesbians who consider them unnecessary, and there are lesbians who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are butches who take their cocks very seriously, there are butches who consider them toys and there are butches who consider them unnecessary and there are butches who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are femmes who take their cocks very seriously (again, like me!), there are femmes who consider them toys, there are femmes who consider them unnecessary and there are femmes who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea. :)

I'm betting what you said though Rope - has been true for you and your experience. I don't think you meant anything offensive in your post.

The first butch I "dated" said very negative things about "lesbians" in bed, and she tended to look for straight girls because she had unstated boundaries about how she wanted to be touched and looking for straight feminine women was her solution. I was just coming to understand my sexuality when I met her, and after our first (and only) encounter, she told me I was definitely a "lesbian" and then she told all her friends I was "too butch" for her. However, she never stated her boundaries, she seemed to be quite happy during the encounter. Eh, the experience was painful all around, and I think it would have been less so if people didn't assume that these identities equate to certain acts in the bedroom.

[asphaltcowboi]

ok so i aked a group of my hetro biker friends what the top ten toughts they had of lesbians..
overweight
mean
wear flannel shirts
like group sex
wear steel toe boots
short hair
hate men
want to be men
have great BBQs
beer drinker

lol dont kill the messenger!! this was kinda a homework project and came from hetro mens mouths! and they also think were all cool!

[AtLast]

ok so i aked a group of my hetro biker friends what the top ten toughts they had of lesbians..
overweight
mean
wear flannel shirts
like group sex
wear steel toe boots
short hair
hate men
want to be men
have great BBQs
beer drinker

lol dont kill the messenger!! this was kinda a homework project and came from hetro mens mouths! and they also think were all cool!

Some list, huh? Actually, I think it is good to get some of this from outside the community- these are the very same kinds of things that have been around for years from het men I have run across! Some things never change!!

[Rope]

Wow, thanks for reading a whole bunch of things into my post. Guess I'll move on...

[AtLast]

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd. :)

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

[LipstickLola]

I thought I had myself allllllllll figured out, and then I read... But seriously? I am a lesbian, and I am NOT less than......:blink:

[AtLast]

I thought I had myself allllllllll figured out, and then I read... But seriously? I am a lesbian, and I am NOT less than......:blink:

Absolutely!! We are not less than anything and we are as B-F as any one else!

Lesbian bed death in and of itself is one of the biggest myths of all! Makes me crazy to see it perpetuated by our own community. It's that old generalization thing.

[BullDog]

You know what Rope, if anyone is reading more into your post you can always clarify if you want. Quite frankly, your post reads as anti-lesbian to me and perpetuating lesbian myths in a thread that was started to debunk them. Feel free to show me I am wrong if you wish.

I do not know you, but I find it hard to believe that you haven't been exposed to a wide range of lesbians given what I do understand your background to be. A mutual friend- a femme lesbian- arranged a get together when you were in Portland years ago- so I know you know some lesbian femmes and butches. I've seen it first hand. Oh and we all met at a lesbian bar and none of the lesbians treated butches badly there. I don't understand why you draw a distinction betwen lesbian and butch-femme or why you did in your post at the very least.

You've been part of the online BF websites for years, you live in the Bay Area, you help arrange BF socials, you are active in the leather community. I am making an educated guess that you know or have met lots of different types of lesbians, many of whom are also butch or femme. So I don't get your remark that lesbians tend to have more bed death than butch-femme because they aren't cock centric (object to a dildo being thought of as a cock- yeah I am lost with your argument so I might haven't gotten it wrong).

[AtLast]

I have a problem with any member posting in a specific ZONE (this thread is in the Lesbian Zone) things that are negative about said population- or making generalizations about it. Don't we have enough of this going on in the world at large?

This isn't any different than what recently went on when a member made derogatory remarks about BDSM in a BDSM Zone thread and then started an anti-BDSM thread that also ran down our admin. Not only did our BDSM members take issue with this, but many non-BDSM members did too because they are against censorship as well as the perpetuation of myths about BDSM and the character of people that practice it. That person was moderated, but fast (I was glad to see this)!

Seems like this applies here. FerCripeSakes, the thread was started to banish myths about lesbianism! And there are many members that identify as both
B-F and as lesbian.

The site TOS now includes lesbian-phobia as something members can report for moderation consideration.

[Nat]

I am the one who brought up LBD and Rope was responding to me. I don't agree with Rope's theory but in a thread about lesbian myths, Rope offered a theory based on experience as to why the myth doesn't seem to apply to butch-femme relationships. I read that as good intention / unintentional anti-lesbian/anti-butch/anti-woman word choice.

Where did I first hear about lbd? From a silly book ostensibly written by a lesbian for questioning women that I thumbed through at the age of 19. That was the first time I tried to get the door open on my closet - and it was rather discouraging misinformation. I remember thinking very clearly and practically, "well, that'll never work." I put the book down and began dating my future ex-husband a few months later.

One thing that is nice about living now is that there are more representations of lesbian sexuality to be found than I remember existing back then. I hope if a 19 year old me walked into a bookstore today, she might be able to find something a bit more encouraging and representative of a broader spectrum of desire and identity.

[BullDog]

Nat, yes, there is a myth about lesbian bed death already out there and you brought it up initially. You weren't perpetuating it.

I don't know why people do the butch-femme vs. lesbian when they overlap and it's not an us vs them issue. This is something I see over and over again on BF websites and I do not care for it at all. Many (in my opinion- particularly in the real world- a majority) of butches and femmes consider themselves to also be lesbians.

As to hys experience, again I don't know hym, but it seems quite puzzling to me that someone exposed to so many different types of people given the geographical area hy lives and social circles hy is part of, would make such a statement.

[lipstixgal]

The myth of inevitable lesbian bed death probably added years to my closet-time.

Is there really such a thing as lesbian bed death?? I wonder about that??:|

[BullDog]

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.

[AtLast]

As to bed death (whether it be lesbian and/or butch femme or any other), I agree with AtLast, I think it has more to do with communication, willingness to keep an intimate relationship growing and thriving, and a missing emotional connection more than having to do with actual sex. Then there is just all the issues of life that have to be dealt with, which leave people with not a lot of time and energy.


Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

[LipstickLola]

I appreciate the gravity of this subject, but can I just say, there was no death in my bed this weekend :heartbeat:

Oh, and the point is? two lesbians, mutual gratification, no issue over who did what to whom or when and how and...........and it was real sex, without a real label I guess?

[Julie]

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.

[CherylNYC]

...

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts....

I don't want to pick on you, ALH. Your posts are usually so affirming, but this jumped out at me, too. The first two sentences of that paragraph remind me of a conversation I had with a lesbian acquaintance who was having trouble understanding why butches wanted to dress "like men". I took a deep breath and explained that butch women are no more trying to imitate men than men are trying to imitate butches. Women dress the way they feel comfortable, as do men, so why would a person assume that butch women are the ones doing the imitating?

When it comes to butch cock, why would butch/femme sex in which butch cock plays a starring roll be viewed as imitative of heterosexual sex? I'm a lesbian and that's how I have sex, so it's lesbian sex to me. Straight people can imitate us if they choose. That doesn't bother me a bit.

[Nat]

There is plenty of straight/heterosexual sex that goes beyond the recipe above as well.

Which for some reason reminds me of this song:

(warning - this is in no way work/family-appropriate. don't click on it if you're expecting it to be).

YuQkU1cW4_Q

[Medusa]

I'll interject a little something here on my philosophy on Butch/Femme sex.

I think Butch/Femme sex is super-hot, gender-bending, "Queer as Fuck", writing-our-own-rules stuff. I think that just because we "insert tab 'a' into slot 'b'" that it does not mean we are mimicking Het relationships or "Biblical" sex.

I also tend to embrace Butch Cock as an extension of the self - not an extension of "het", because when a woman straps on and fucks another woman, there isn't really anything "Het" about that in my book. That's two women fucking each other. (or in other cases masculine-identified folks fucking another -identified person)

I think that even if the "cock" looks like a penis that it doesn't automatically default to a "Het" experience. It's rubber or silicone or (if you're real lucky) Vixskin and hopefully will be driven by an insanely talented Butch who will fuck you senseless. It's no more "Het" to me than a bottle of lube or a butt plug or nipple clamps.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think of Butch Cock as a "toy" or as a "device" but I also don't assign "Het" to it since I think that most of the people who tend to use them are more than likely Queer on some level.

I'm super tempted to start a "Butch/Femme Myths" thread and might do that hoping that the folks in this thread won't take it as something icky. I do tend to think of the thought that "Butch/Femme sex follows a Het dynamic" as a myth and that it often serves to diminish our dynamic, make it invisible, or to deny that Butch/Femme is NOT about who's the "man" and who's the "woman" in our relationships.

Good discussion.

[Softhearted]

In my humble opinion, as long as our society will equate sex = only reproduction, we won't get out of the penis/vagina equation... of course, as a species we use sex, or should I say coitus, in order to reproduce, but sex, other tha coitus/penetration, is also a way to express other things... bonding, making social contacts, having pleasure... and even, unfortunatly, punishing others. "Non coitus" sex was also observed in other species like primates, dolphins, etc...

That is why when some people tell me, "but you don't really have sex because you are a lezzy"... I ask them, "well do you always get pregnant or does your gf gets always get pregnant when you have sex?"

If the answer is no, then I tell them.. "then you are not having sex either!!!!"

My two cents...

[Nat]

When it comes to butch cock, why would butch/femme sex in which butch cock plays a starring roll be viewed as imitative of heterosexual sex? I'm a lesbian and that's how I have sex, so it's lesbian sex to me. Straight people can imitate us if they choose. That doesn't bother me a bit.

I think defining "butch-femme sex" as fundamentally different from "lesbian sex" due to the focus on "butch cock" is extremely problematic because it creates a false dividing line between lesbians and butch-femme folks and it stereotypes sexual behavior over the entire spectrum into a very narrow definition.

If that's how you have sex and you're a lesbian, then it's lesbian sex. But to say "X is how butch-femme people have sex," and/or, "Y is how lesbians have sex," is to define a whole lot of behaviors as one single behavior - as though that one single behavior is the defining factor for all of us.

Defining butch-femme sex as centered mainly on the "butch cock" feels pretty sexist/heterosexist (even though heterosexual sex is various just like any other spectrum of sexual behavior), because it's forcing a masculine-centric, phallocentric definition on a broad spectrum of behavior among those who are designated female.

Also, the idea that non-butch-femme lesbian sex is somehow defined by the lack of said cock also feels pretty sexist. It goes back to the idea of defining women by our lack of phallus rather than by the anatomy we actually have (a la Freud's penis envy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_envy)).

Aside from its sexist/heterosexist overtones, it implies a "no-true-scotsman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)"-like scenario where "true" or "real" butch-femme folks would not also be lesbians or would not fuck without a "butch cock" involved. It's the kind of thing that puts butch and femme on a sliding scale and discounts/invalidates the identities and sex lives of butches and femmes who prefer other kinds of sex.

(Just one example: Butch bottoms exist and they aren't any less butch for it. When you define butch-femme sex as involving a butch cock, it does feel like an attempt to invalidate butch bottoms and femme tops and switches).

[BullDog]

I think defining "butch-femme sex" as fundamentally different from "lesbian sex" due to the focus on "butch cock" is extremely problematic because it creates a false dividing line between lesbians and butch-femme folks and it stereotypes sexual behavior over the entire spectrum into a very narrow definition.

If that's how you have sex and you're a lesbian, then it's lesbian sex. But to say "X is how butch-femme people have sex," and/or, "Y is how lesbians have sex," is to define a whole lot of behaviors as one single behavior - as though that one single behavior is the defining factor for all of us.

Defining butch-femme sex as centered mainly on the "butch cock" feels pretty sexist/heterosexist (even though heterosexual sex is various just like any other spectrum of sexual behavior), because it's forcing a masculine-centric, phallocentric definition on a broad spectrum of behavior among those who are designated female.

Also, the idea that non-butch-femme lesbian sex is somehow defined by the lack of said cock also feels pretty sexist. It goes back to the idea of defining women by our lack of phallus rather than by the anatomy we actually have (a la Freud's penis envy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_envy)).

Aside from its sexist/heterosexist overtones, it implies a "no true scotsman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)" like scenario where "true" or "real" butch-femme folks would not also be lesbians or would not fuck without a "butch cock" involved. It's the kind of thing that puts butch and femme on a sliding scale and discounts butches and femmes who prefer other kinds of sex.



Very interesting what gets responded to and what doesn't.

Anyway, I am a stone butch lesbian who has a cock not a dildo. I'm engaged in lesbian sex when I am using my cock or it's being pleasured or whatever. I am a lesbian having sex. Lesbians having sex where there is no butch cock involved are also having lesbian sex. Butches and femmes (whether they are lesbians or not) are having sex whether there is a butch cock involved or not. There are as many ways to have sex as a lesbian as anyone else having sex.

Nat, nailed it with post as far as I am concerned. You can't divide up lesbians and butch femmes based on butch cock- that's extremely sexist and narrow minded and inaccurate. It also does follow along heterosexual lines of thinking which is what I believe AtLast is referring to. Butch cock is not the center of the universe for butch femme sex, although many of us are rather fond of it as giver, receiver or both.

[Nat]

PS. I don't think of my cock as a dildo or a toy either, and I do ID as a femme and a lesbian.

When it's attached, it's part of me, it's an extension of me, it's this body/soul/brain cohesion thing and it's awesome. :)

[LipstickLola]

I'm going to comment from my own personal perspective, hear me please? I mean NO disrespect, no NOTHING (yes, that was intentional albeit grammatically incorrect).

I am a lesbian, and a late bloomer (*read* closeted for many years). That being said, I see and feel my genitalia as female, I adore and love being with another woman who has the same genitalia as me. I do not see myself as having a 'cock' so to speak, and honestly, until I came here, (as I stated in the beginning, to gain a different perspective), I had no clue there was so much delineation and sub-dividing of who we are as women. I do not always understand, in my naivete, I may make a stupid comment, but also mean nothing negative or disrespectful, but some of this is way over my head for a little old middle aged lesbian as myself. Make no mistake about it though, I have great sex!! hot, steamy, passionate, sweaty, all encompassing SEX. Sometimes, I use "toys", to me, IMO, they are an extenstion of my wish to give pleasure to my partner, or, to pleasure myself. They may, or may not be phallic in shape or design, makes no difference to me. Having been married to a male for many years, I'd just as soon leave the "penis" aspect alone, but again, that's just me, and does not in any way mean that I cannot respect YOU, (as in the 'you' of you all here.) :)

I hope that by expressing my opinion here in the "lesbian" thread, I am not in violation of the TOS, as stated before, I mean no disrespect or anything negative in any way shape or form. I fully realize my opinions do not reflect those of many here as well, Peace!!!

[Rope]

Yes, Bulldog you're right---I live in Gay mecca San Francisco and meet and cross many communities with the Queer community. That said, there are plenty of lesbians in this town that do not like butch/femme folk and IN PART, that is how Butch/Femme Socials got started.

No, a butch (or femme) cock in one's relationship will not prevent lesbian OR butch/femme bed death. My point in saying that there is LESS bed death within our community again was from talking to those who "crossed over" from lesbian to butch/femme community, is from talking to various people who have done this. They found that the dynamic of butch/femme was vastly different than their lesbian life and more open to sex and the communication of sex.

Yes, I know there are those that don't make that distinction between lesbian and butch/femme, that they are lesbians AND butch or femme. Yes, I know that plenty of switches use dildos or their butch or femme cocks---and plenty that have fulfilling sew lives without dildos or cocks, not to mention have a variety of sexual activities. Plenty of lesbians and butch/femme folk do not like or enjoy penetrative sex with cock like instruments or even dildos in the shape of dolphins.

Yes, Bulldog I attended an event at a lesbian bar---and guess what, I wasn't looking at the lesbians in the bar. I wasn't noticing the similarities that we have as "sisters" in this community. I was tracking the butches and femmes. I am glad that you have not had a rough time in your lesbian community.

Rope--

[BullDog]

Yes, Bulldog you're right---I live in Gay mecca San Francisco and meet and cross many communities with the Queer community. That said, there are plenty of lesbians in this town that do not like butch/femme folk and IN PART, that is how Butch/Femme Socials got started.

No, a butch (or femme) cock in one's relationship will not prevent lesbian OR butch/femme bed death. My point in saying that there is LESS bed death within our community again was from talking to those who "crossed over" from lesbian to butch/femme community, is from talking to various people who have done this. They found that the dynamic of butch/femme was vastly different than their lesbian life and more open to sex and the communication of sex.

Yes, I know there are those that don't make that distinction between lesbian and butch/femme, that they are lesbians AND butch or femme. Yes, I know that plenty of switches use dildos or their butch or femme cocks---and plenty that have fulfilling sew lives without dildos or cocks, not to mention have a variety of sexual activities. Plenty of lesbians and butch/femme folk do not like or enjoy penetrative sex with cock like instruments or even dildos in the shape of dolphins.

Yes, Bulldog I attended an event at a lesbian bar---and guess what, I wasn't looking at the lesbians in the bar. I wasn't noticing the similarities that we have as "sisters" in this community. I was tracking the butches and femmes. I am glad that you have not had a rough time in your lesbian community.

Rope--

Ok Rope,

the part in bold I disagree with. Thanks for the reply.

[Tcountry]

I Love how we can take a thread topic and and have an all out discussion about one thing within the topic...This is such a great community! :)

[pajama]

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.


I just wanted to comment to this a little. I completely understand what ALH originally meant when s/he (sorry forgot your pronoun, no disrespect intended) commented about libido changes. First with regards to medication...antidepresents are hell. Not only do they numb the sadness they numb all feelings including desire. Second, menopause without hormone replacement killed my libido. Anybody that knows me, is amazed to find out that before I corrected my pre-menopausal hormones I would go MONTHS without masturbating and over a year without sex. I know...unheard of.

So while I hope to have the libido I have now until the day I die, I understand that things happen to change that. Sometimes it's 'bed death', sometimes medications, sometimes emotions, sometimes hormones. But regretably it does happen.

And as to the butch/femme/butch-cock hetero relation....all I have to say is thank gods it IS NOT like hetero because no cis-male's easily deflated cock could ever keep up with me. (Sorry if I offended, that's really my only take on it because I don't pretend to understand butch cock.)

A

[AtLast]

ALH,

I do really enjoy your postings. They are generally well thought out. I am having trouble with this one.

I identify as a Femme - I identify as a Lesbian - I identify as a Woman - I identify as a Momma to 3 male son's raised in a Lesbian household.

You wrote: "The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation."

Dammit, this has set me off. I am not even sure how to address it, because this type of talk coming from you, is leaving me feeling a tad unbalanced.

FEMME Here - who loves the Butch Cock! There is nothing straight/heterosexual about me. Not in the way I make love, fuck, love, raise children or live my life. Yet... I would be rather lost without the Butch COCK in my life. I do not want the Dildo - I want the BUTCH COCK. I am really horrified by your statement here.

My son's (all three of them) know their Momma is a Femme and their Momma loves Butches. They also understand about the Butch Cock, because in our household, we discuss everything. They did not have a bio male father to educate them about sex. They had a Femme Momma who taught them about oral sex, taught them how to fuck, talked to them about the female orgasm through hours of open and honest conversation. Even they understand the difference between a butch cock and a dildo and they would NEVER think or believe there is anything heterosexual about their Momma or the Butch in their Momma's life.

Also, maybe I am not quite a senior yet - but I am approaching 50 and my body hurts as well. I sometimes find it hard to drag myself out of bed. However... Sex? Making Love? Fucking? Whatever you might call it. Wakes me up both physically and emotionally, and I am planning on having it wake me up till the day I close my eyes their final time. I cannot imagine not wanting or longing for that touch for the rest of my life.

I feel you have with your words, taken a beautiful dynamic and dirtied it. YES - to me, being categorized with a stereotypical heterosexual dynamic, is dirty to me.

I am sure you did not intend to come off snarky, but really it did come off that way, at least to me.

p.s. There are no facts when it comes to fucking or making love. The only facts are... When it comes to safe consensual sex - then there are facts.




I understand why and how this sets you off- I was not really intending what I think you believe.

For the record- I enjoy it all and am a lesbian of the b-F variety. I get tired, however, of how we often put things in narrow contexts sexually. I do personally get tired of the word cock and it brings some very heteronormative things up for me. My main problem was with touting butch cock- or any cock- with lesbian bed death. I hate the phrase lesbian bed death too- it is belittling and I think (especially in most of this conversation), goes to the never ending comparison between lesbian and straight sex. Ie., all you need is a good lay- meaning a man with an attached penis plunged into your vagina.

No, my use of accessory items (and it doesn't stop with dildoes- they are not the only “toys“ around!), has nothing to do with cocks! Never has, never will. Anything I nickname, in fact has a clit as part of it. It is just important to me to own my being a woman and honoring the wonder of female sexual anatomy. Maybe because of the era I am from in which women were referred to as such things as frigid, non-sexual, not even supposed to be sexual beings, bad if they did, too good, if they didn't, shouldn't play sports because we might hurt our female body parts, kept from certain professions and jobs... on and on- I am just sensitive about this stuff. But, honestly, I my "toys" are of the feminine because of how I have integrated gender-bending in my life. I choose to "bend" to the female/woman side of the equation because there has been so much taken from me in the past for being a woman- and a masculine woman. I also am tired of the lesbian-phobia I see so much of on B-F sites (it is much less so on the Planet, however). It bothers and hurts me as a woman and a butch.


I absolutely apologize to you or anyone else if I offended you. I really was not intending this. I do have strong feelings about the female as well as lesbian sex. I know I can react differently to some of this stuff, but, to not be who I am as a butch woman and how I relate to sexuality as a person just isn’t something I can over look. But, I will try to use different wording if I return to the Planet in the future.

I have no personal negative judgement of how everyone else sees this- or what terms they want to use. I especially think there could be some sensitive things that trans folks could have around this.

[BullDog]

The more I think about the butch-femme dynamic supposedly being more open to sex and the communication of sex, the more I disagree. In fact there appear to be far more "rules" to butch-femme sex and how it is supposed to be done and who is supposed to do what and what is supposed to be used (the almighty butch cock) than with lesbians (those not also identifying as butch or femme) where it's two women enjoying having sex together and where women are actually valued- as women and as sexual beings. I am a butch with a butch cock, but I really just have to shake my head over all of the perpetuation of lesbian stereotypes.

[Kobi]

Kobi always finds it fascinating
how threads like this provide the opportunity
to see people in a whole new way.
Am taking notes too.....some things should never be forgotten ;)

Carry on..........

[LipstickLola]

The more I think about the butch-femme dynamic supposedly being more open to sex and the communication of sex, the more I disagree. In fact there appear to be far more "rules" to butch-femme sex and how it is supposed to be done and who is supposed to do what and what is supposed to be used (the almighty butch cock) than with lesbians (those not also identifying as butch or femme) where it's two women enjoying having sex together and where women are actually valued- as women and as sexual beings. I am a butch with a butch cock, but I really just have to shake my head over all of the perpetuation of lesbian stereotypes.

Yeah :hangloose:

*lesbian nodding head*

[Daywalker]

This all makes me wonder a bit, because all this time I thought
I was having 'Me' sex ~ 'My' sex...my own style, delivery, etc.
:thinking:

Not to say this hasn't been an interesting thread to follow.
I just cannot fathom categorizing mah sex.
:|

I can say that Bed Death is something that can reincarnate.
For those who are experiencing this, if it's in your
heart to revive it...then don't give up.
:hangloose:

:daywalker:

[Julie]

It's pretty simple. We are all different. There are no two people who share identical desires. I am not so pleased there is all this stereotyping going on. I can only speak from my own experience as an older femme.

I came out as a Femme in 1979 and was partnered with a Butch. We did not follow any rules sexually. She beat the crap out of me almost daily. Thankfully, I did not judge all butches to beat their femmes.

I lived, loved and partnered with a Femme. I believe in this relationship, I felt quite the Lesbian and for me, lost so much of who I was. Sex, well -- It was just that. Sex. GOD... If she would have just slammed me up against the wall and taken me. Our sex life was traditional in every sense of the word. We experienced LDB pretty quick into the relationship. Without passion, this will happen. It happens with straight people too, as well as those of us in the B/F dynamic.

Since the ending of that relationship, I have only exclusively dated Butches. I am Femme - There is a dynamic which takes place between the butch in my life and myself. I am not subservient to my butch, nor do I follow any set of rules. Sexually... That is really between the butch I am sleeping with and myself, and they are not constructed of any rules, other than the ones we have negotiated and feel passionate about. My butch has their boundaries and I have mine. We love with respect.

I am not sure why we are criticizing one another here. Why we are fighting for our right to be better than the next. What really matters most. Each and every one of us should find that special person we want to spend our lives with. To experience the ultimate gift of love. To experience the ultimate gift of passion with your love. Of course, if you do not want love - but just want to fuck... Then really... Do it! Fuck and be Happy - Any which way you do it.

I love the term Butch Cock - I love the term Femme Cock - I love the term Cock. When I think of the anatomy of a bio male - I think Penis. In my world, Cock is reserved for me and my partner. Call it a Dildo, that's great - I called it a Dildo when I was in a femme/femme relationship. "Hey Rachel... Where's the Dildo?" Does it get any more romantic than that.

Julie

[Isadora]

The logic follows...bed death is a reason to leave an otherwise good relationship and leaving said relationship May be based on how you identify and what color and shape your cock may be... wow. hahahahahaha

menopause
medications
MS
Lupus
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Osteoarthritis
etc., etc., etc.,

All relationships go through periods of more and less sexual activity. Some of us choose ways to be sexual and keep our relationship (non monog, poly, serial monog, etc), some move on (finding someone who exactly meets their sexual needs (okay that made me laugh a little, too), some chose to fake it till you make it (been faked on, I dun like it myself) and some after a period of time renew their sexual activity. I love sex. I loved sex when I was an out femme lesbian in the 70's. I loved sex when I was a political rabid social worker femme lesbian in the 80's. I loved sex as a femme dyke in the 90's. I love sex now as a Queer Femme. Right this moment in time, I have making love and sex in an amazing way. Away from all labels of gender or queerness, I think the fluctuation of sexual activity is a pretty basic human physiological and emotional phenomena.

[Kobi]

Kobi now has "Old MacDonald Has A Farm"
stuck in her head thanks to you folks.....

....with a butch cock here and a femme cock there....
....here a cock, there a cock, everywhere a cock cock...

:vigil:

[LipstickLola]

Kobi now has "Old MacDonald Has A Farm"
stuck in her head thanks to you folks.....

....with a butch cock here and a femme cock there....
....here a cock, there a cock, everywhere a cock cock...

:vigil:

OMG, lmao......thanks, a LOT

[Martina]

LOL. Like InfiniteFemme, i sooo like the word. Butch COCK, femme COCK.

Yum, yum, yummy yum.

i can't imagine limiting my SEX life in some way because it might look heteronormative. i fought the sex wars in the eighties. i am done with that.

i don't defend my sex life. i enjoy it.


Kobi now has "Old MacDonald Has A Farm"
stuck in her head thanks to you folks.....

....with a butch cock here and a femme cock there....
....here a cock, there a cock, everywhere a cock cock...

:vigil:

[Rope]

Now, now Isadora...you know if a glow in the dark dolphin was comin' at you, you'd jump out of bed <g>.

[BullDog]

Top 10 Myths About Lesbians

1. LESBIANS HATE MEN

No, actually I found most lesbians love men, and have many men in their lives. Many have been married to men, though perhaps not in love they loved their spouse as friends. Lesbians also love their fathers and brothers, sons, and friends. There are some people who hate men, just as often it's straight women (even some men do). Actually to be frank, I've found in my experience more men hate lesbians, than the opposite (ironically these people are probably most readily identified by their statements about "lesbians hate men").

Some gay, straight women and men do hate the violence that men commit against women, and many have first hand experience with that, and the condition of the world and second class status of women under the current patriarchy. These things could result in hating men. But lesbians are more often said to be man-haters because it is not understood that females can love other females because they are naturally attracted to the spirituality, emotional make-up, and unique sexuality of other women. It's also used as a way to discredit the ability of women to live lives outside of the need for men. But just because you're not attracted to someone, doesn't mean you hate them, that's kindergarten thinking. People who hate men are called "Misandrists", not "lesbians".

2. LESBIANS WANT TO BE MEN

No, this one is especially attributed to "butch" lesbians. In reality people who are brave and brazen enough be a non-conformist against the hetero-normative expectations of sexual orientation are also more prone to non-comformative behaviors in social sexual dress codes. Many in this choose to dress in more androgynous or more masculine ways that make them feel comfortable in who they are. In reality many heterosexual people dress in more non-conformative ways as well. People who's minds are the opposite sex of their body are called Transsexuals, not lesbians.

3. LESBIANS SHOULDN'T WORK WITH CHILDREN

Lesbians should work with children. Perhaps the next generations could learn from the get-go what normal, loving, caring everyday people we all are no matter our sexual orientation. Lesbians aren't interested in children sexually, that is called a Pedophile, and 98% of them are straight men abusing young girls.


4. LESBIANISM IS OK, AS LONG AS THEY KEEP QUIET AND KEEP IT OUT OF SIGHT

Ahhhhhhh no, lesbians are A-ok all around. Homosexuality is not abnormal, it is not a "human deviation", it is found regularly in nature in animals of all species. What's not ok is discrimination and violence against them because of their visibility, what abnormal is lobotomy's and shock treatments that were given to people because they fell in love with someone that wasn't the opposite sex. It's not ok to deny housing, jobs, hospital visitation of dying spouses, it's not ok to kill, rape and beat people because of their sexual orientation... maybe if all that stopped you'd get your wish and we'd be more quiet.

5. ALL LESBIANS ARE JUST ANGRY FEMINISTS

Not all lesbians are feminist, there are some lesbians are in the feminist movement in an effort to further the rights of all women lesbian or not. The feminist movement has greatly improved the lives of all queer females and straight women alike. Lesbians who are feminists have also been a huge part and greatly furthered the LGQBTI movement for all homosexuals and trans persons as well. It's called fighting for equal rights for everyone... not we want more than you... we want the same as you. If you're experiencing "angry lesbian feminists" perhaps they're just mad at you for calling them that or something else you did.

6. LESBIANS HAVE PENIS ENVY.

First of all sexuality and sexual orientation is about the person and not a sex organ. A person may desire the experience of penetration or giving another that experience through the use of sexual toys. Second not all dildos are penis replica's, some are some aren't. I know it may be difficult to comprehend but there is more to sexual orientation than fixation on genitals, and really most lesbians aren't thinking about a lot about penis's, that's probably important to try to remember.

7. LESBIANS WHO LOVE BUTCH LESBIANS SHOULD JUST FIND A MAN.

This is an easy one, one word... L-E-S-B-I-A-N. But to be even clearer, butch lesbians aren't men... wait (checks and cleans my spectacles and looks again) nope, still not men. With that I'll leave you with one more deep sobering thought to ponder...L-E-S-B-I-A-N

8. LESBIANS ARE UGLY WOMEN WHO CAN'T FIND MEN

Nope! Lesbians are women with all different types of physical characteristics, just- like- any- other- group- within- the- human- sexes. Blond, brunette, red heads, raven haired, short, tall, fat, skinny, long haired, short haired women of all colors and races that simply don't desire men. Again, many lesbians have been married and had boyfriends. If it was about being ugly, there are some of ugly men out there to pair up and not so hard to find that anyone would need to change sexual orientation over it.

9. LESBIANS ARE OUT TO CONVERT YOUNG GIRLS (RECRUITING)
Lesbians are not interested in conversion or force. As lesbians they know well the feeling of having another's ideas of sexuality force fed to them. They are acutely and especially aware sexual orientation isn't something somebody can talk you into. There is no "lesbian dust" we sprinkle on people... get real (but if there was I'd throw it on you).

10. LESBIANS JUST HAVEN"T FOUND THE RIGHT MAN YET

Really, no, some haven't found the right woman yet, and if they haven't found the right man it's because there isn't one... the important thing to remember here is, they're gay, so stop hitting on them stupid.

---

Lesbians and Dykes (I prefer "Big Ol' Damn Dyke" if you're name calling, thank you) often do have an agenda. I know, see you were right, we want something. I found most of us seem for the most part hell bent on finding a life partner, someone to share the daily grind with, to love, laugh and cry with. Some would like a family, a home and a dog or cat. They may also seek community... not always successfully.

And yes, they also seem to often care about equal rights for themselves and their families, and sometimes just want to be safe.

But if you find all this lacking, and want to hear me say something really awful about lesbians... there is this.

Lesbians in South Africa today are being murdered and raped daily by men trying to "cure" them of their sexuality. The sexual attacks are called "corrective rape" of which 10 new cases are reported each week. Of the men who are brought to trial, only 1 in 25 will be convicted.

Though it's far away, and an extreme example, this is not something that's isolated and far away. Lesbians are raped, beaten and killed for there sexuality on every continent. If you Google "lesbian raped" you'll receive over 40,000 hits... admittedly these are not all real cases... many are ads for porn videos depicting lesbians being raped. Yeah I know, not so funny.


The purpose of the thread is for debunking myths about lesbians, not to perpetuate them.

[Kobi]

Lesbians are notorious bad dressers.

This always makes me chuckle. Tho, I did finally order my first ever fleece lined flannel shirt. :blink:

And sneakers can be formal footware - requires an attitude but can be done!

[LipstickLola]

I am not a bad dresser, casual most of the time, but not bad.......
I do not 'hate' anyone, some men aggravate me, but so does the toilet paper being hung wrong.
I do not have penis envy.
I had a wonderful senstive man, (I even said he had one ovary), still, he wasn't "right" he is a man. I like women, period.
LesbyLola
:)

[Diva]

Lesbians are notorious bad dressers.

This always makes me chuckle. Tho, I did finally order my first ever fleece lined flannel shirt. :blink:

And sneakers can be formal footware - requires an attitude but can be done!



Maybe if they're blinged out.....

:eyebat:

[Julie]

Lesbians are notorious bad dressers.

This always makes me chuckle. Tho, I did finally order my first ever fleece lined flannel shirt. :blink:

And sneakers can be formal footware - requires an attitude but can be done!

I am a Femme first - which means...
I am a FABULOUS dresser.
When I bring the Lesbian of myself into the equation.
You can find me wearing Birkenstocks.
This whole statement of thought is soooooo soooooo sooooooo
I am getting older and losing my words.
Is this a Lesbian thing?

[girl_dee]

This all makes me wonder a bit, because all this time I thought
I was having 'Me' sex ~ 'My' sex...my own style, delivery, etc.
:thinking:

Not to say this hasn't been an interesting thread to follow.
I just cannot fathom categorizing mah sex.
:|

I can say that Bed Death is something that can reincarnate.
For those who are experiencing this, if it's in your
heart to revive it...then don't give up.
:hangloose:

:daywalker:


I agree with this (Thank you Mr Day )... sex is defined by the TWO people having it.. Sex can happen in many ways and not just in bed during penetration.. its much more than that.. It is redefined with each new relationship for crying out loud. It's YOUR sex dammit, and no one should presume to know it. I really get tired of the general (straight) public assuming we are trying to duplicate straight couple sex.. hell that would be damn boring!

I think I need some angry sex now! GrrrrR($*@(#@

[BullDog]

I confess, I am a lesbian and have never owned a pair of Birkenstocks despite the fact that I have lived in Santa Cruz, CA; Ithaca, NY and Portland, OR. However, I have owned flannel shirts. I must be butch :D

As to sex, I agree it's all individual and you can't stereotype or predict how someone or a group of someones has sex or enjoys sex by their gender or sexual orientation.

[LipstickLola]

I am a Femme first - which means...
I am a FABULOUS dresser.
When I bring the Lesbian of myself into the equation.
You can find me wearing Birkenstocks.
This whole statement of thought is soooooo soooooo sooooooo
I am getting older and losing my words.
Is this a Lesbian thing?

What is the difference between being a femme and a lesbian? is one mutally exlclusive/inclusive of the other?? I'm seriously asking anyone who'd like to answer. Thank you IF for your answer the other day. I am hoping to see if someone can expand on your answer. :D

The reason I ask (you ask) :o, is that I feel like nothing I am, or feel, fits ANY of these subdivided labels that I find so prevalent here on the planet. Here I thought I was doing well to finally come out as a lesbian, only to find that well? hell.......that ain't all there is!!! I'm talkin years of self-evolution here. I wear Birks, but I wear boots too, and? you'll catch me in kitten heals on just the right occasion (tongue cheek here)
Is there anybody out there who 'gets me'???? think I'm strange?? (yes, tell me)
This is the lesbian myth thread, but it seems all encompassing :)
I am NOT in the least uncomfortable with who I am, but it seems as though I may indeed be misunderstanding myself, LOL...geebus! :seeingstars:

[Kobi]

I am a Femme first - which means...
I am a FABULOUS dresser.
When I bring the Lesbian of myself into the equation.
You can find me wearing Birkenstocks.
This whole statement of thought is soooooo soooooo sooooooo
I am getting older and losing my words.
Is this a Lesbian thing?

Julie,

Breathe.

This is just another myth. It is a thread on lesbian myths. So, I was saying there is a myth that lesbians are poor dressers.

So this whole statement of thought is soooo soooo soooo mythical.

Capiche?

[Julie]

Lola - I don't really think there is a clear cut definition of what femme is and means. It is individual for all of us. For me, it is not about what I wear - but who I am inside. I cannot explain it. It is like LOVE - there is no clear definition for Love, as it means something different to all of us.

I wish you luck in figuring all this out. And maybe you are simply a Lesbian Women, which is equally as fabulous. Just enjoy and love who you are, that is really all that matters at the end of the day.

[Julie]

Julie,

Breathe.

This is just another myth. It is a thread on lesbian myths. So, I was saying there is a myth that lesbians are poor dressers.

So this whole statement of thought is soooo soooo soooo mythical.

Capiche?


LOL I just adore how literal you are.
Capiche.. Indeed.

[LipstickLola]

Lola - I don't really think there is a clear cut definition of what femme is and means. It is individual for all of us. For me, it is not about what I wear - but who I am inside. I cannot explain it. It is like LOVE - there is no clear definition for Love, as it means something different to all of us.

I wish you luck in figuring all this out. And maybe you are simply a Lesbian Women, which is equally as fabulous. Just enjoy and love who you are, that is really all that matters at the end of the day.

Well, thanks again!
Honestly, I'm so happy to be in this particular space,(finally figuring out I wasn't 'broken') I suppose there's always a chance I could become enlightened to something else, who knows? Life is like that, yes?

[Kobi]

Well, thanks again!
Honestly, I'm so happy to be in this particular space,(finally figuring out I wasn't 'broken') I suppose there's always a chance I could become enlightened to something else, who knows? Life is like that, yes?

You will learn more here on the Planet then you ever thought even was possible.
And, I suspect like the rest of us, you take what fits, try out a few new things, acknowledge the rest, and become a well rounded and informed
POQ i.e. person of queerness.

:candle: Kumbaya

[LipstickLola]

You will learn more here on the Planet then you ever thought even was possible.
And, I suspect like the rest of us, you take what fits, try out a few new things, acknowledge the rest, and become a well rounded and informed
POQ i.e. person of queerness.

:candle: Kumbaya

Oh I'm well rounded alright! ;)
POQ eh? I like it :hangloose:
Peace out, LOL

[Isadora]

Now, now Isadora...you know if a glow in the dark dolphin was comin' at you, you'd jump out of bed <g>.

Now, now Rope...you know if it had a glow in the dark rosary attached I would so keep it, create a ritual and an altar to it (for it?).

[Rope]

"The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation"

The fact is that for SOME our cock is anything but very straight (narrow) or heterosexual especially when queers are involved. I read this and thought, "really? wow" now my own community is dissin' me AND perhaps you've never met a femme that enjoyed butch cock, but again, so many B/F expressions and interpretations out there.

[Starbuck]

She thought I was a lesbian just because I joined the Army, to serve my country. I'm like, hello! :seeingstars: I'm serving my country because I'm frickin' patriotic ya know?! She didn't find out until 20 years later that I am indeed a lesbian.:shocking:

[Heart]

Bed-death = sexist myth that women don't like sex. Ha!

Another myth: lesbians don't like penetrative sex. *snort* (Don't confuse sex with politics)

But I do wonder if those of us who are lesbian identified are less inclined towards cock-worship.

Heart
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)

[Jett]

That is why I have always found a difference between lesbians and butch/femme. In my unscientific surveying, butch/femme has less bed death because we tend to have elements of sexuality in our identity. It's a more cock centric vs. dildo centric identification--butch cock that is.

I don't identify as a lesbian, I identify as a butch. I feel I am on the male side of butch and prefer 'hy' rather than she as a pronoun, it's not much deeper of an identification than that. That said, no, I do not want to be a man as some would think that myth goes--the more masculine the butch, the more they want to be a man.

Rope--
Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?:blink:

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. ;) I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.

[Medusa]

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?:blink:

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. ;) I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.


Met~
This post speaks to me - Hell, speaks FOR me in some ways.

I'll file this under "myths":

Butch does not equal "strapper".
Femme does not equal "strap recipient".

I kinda like the idea that people's gender is not necessarily defined by how they get off, with what, or with who. I know plenty of Butches, Trans men, and Bio men who enjoy penetration, etc. and I certainly don't think of them as any "less than".

Actually, I think it's pretty hot when people get off unapologetically in whatever way they see fit.

Good stuff.

[Kobi]

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?:blink:

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. ;) I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.
Seems like different people bring out different sides of us in different situations. Nice to have variety and flexibilty to explore all sides of oneself. Being cockcentric, to me, would be very limiting.

Plus, so much of sexuality and sensuality, to me, is cerebrally/emotionally based. Engage me there and the sky is the limit. Problems there will lead to new meaning in bed death.

And, I find it very erotic to be with someone who breaks the mold of what would be expected based on a label or a look.

[BullDog]

The whole idea that there is more lesbian bed death than butch femme (even though they completely overlap so that it makes no sense) due to cock centrism or the lack thereof perpetuates a myth that straight people have about lesbians which is-there's no penis how could they have sex?

Insert butch cock (pun intended) instead of penis and voila- we have a heteronormative view of sex once again. Those pointing that out are not saying enjoying butch cock is heteronormative- it's putting it front and center and making the enjoyment of sex all about the cock that is heteronormative. Why not worship the beautiful vagina instead? Why is cock always front and center?

Women can easily have sex with or without a penis, cock, dildo (in various shapes, materials, colors, etc) and enjoy ourselves completely.

I of course agree with Metro and Kobi that my sex life isn't limited to just my butch cock. I'm a stone butch. I am also a butch dyke/lesbian. I have hands, mouth, body, brains, creativity and imagination too, so why would I center my sexuality around one thing only? I can please and be pleased in a multitude of ways. I also agree with Kobi that bed death would be more emotionally based.

[Soft*Silver]

something I have learned is dont jump to conclusions about who is behind a label.

I am a femme and I strap on. I didnt use to but oh I do now. I stepped out of the box I put myself in as a femme and allowed myself to strap on .

so add that to my label of heterosexual....

[foxyshaman]

I have been away for a few months and somehow <insert shy grin> came to the lesbian myth forum and there was a debate on bed-death, and cocks and all such things..

and then o'mcdonald songs

and birkies

and hummus

and Goodness me I missed this great bunch!!!

Thanks, as always for the insight. And well the occassional "hit my head with my palm" moments. Sometimes the same conversations go a-round for some time. Nothing really changes, but the conversations are always quite interesting. I like the philosophy. I still consider myself a dangerously dorky dyke with a perpensity to strap-on, ride hard and... well now I am just blushing...

Just poppin in...

Foxyshaman

[Sachita]

I understand why and how this sets you off- I was not really intending what I think you believe.

For the record- I enjoy it all and am a lesbian of the b-F variety. I get tired, however, of how we often put things in narrow contexts sexually. I do personally get tired of the word cock and it brings some very heteronormative things up for me. My main problem was with touting butch cock- or any cock- with lesbian bed death. I hate the phrase lesbian bed death too- it is belittling and I think (especially in most of this conversation), goes to the never ending comparison between lesbian and straight sex. Ie., all you need is a good lay- meaning a man with an attached penis plunged into your vagina.

No, my use of accessory items (and it doesn't stop with dildoes- they are not the only “toys“ around!), has nothing to do with cocks! Never has, never will. Anything I nickname, in fact has a clit as part of it. It is just important to me to own my being a woman and honoring the wonder of female sexual anatomy. Maybe because of the era I am from in which women were referred to as such things as frigid, non-sexual, not even supposed to be sexual beings, bad if they did, too good, if they didn't, shouldn't play sports because we might hurt our female body parts, kept from certain professions and jobs... on and on- I am just sensitive about this stuff. But, honestly, I my "toys" are of the feminine because of how I have integrated gender-bending in my life. I choose to "bend" to the female/woman side of the equation because there has been so much taken from me in the past for being a woman- and a masculine woman. I also am tired of the lesbian-phobia I see so much of on B-F sites (it is much less so on the Planet, however). It bothers and hurts me as a woman and a butch.


I absolutely apologize to you or anyone else if I offended you. I really was not intending this. I do have strong feelings about the female as well as lesbian sex. I know I can react differently to some of this stuff, but, to not be who I am as a butch woman and how I relate to sexuality as a person just isn’t something I can over look. But, I will try to use different wording if I return to the Planet in the future.

I have no personal negative judgement of how everyone else sees this- or what terms they want to use. I especially think there could be some sensitive things that trans folks could have around this.

wow- I so get this. I struggled with this a long time. So conflicted and then so many labels. I'm not struggling any more, thank goodness. Thank you

[citybutch]

I don't know if this was listed (I am sure it was) but will list it anyway:

Lesbian Bed Death...

Big ole myth

[Sachita]

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

I love your exchange in this entire thread,

I think that as we get older sex is different and not as much of a priority. Throughout your life time you evolve emotionally and spiritually. Your priorities change. I have experimented with many things but the one thing present is that I am lesbian. I don't have a choice with this. I am free spirited and open. I was always attracted to masculine lesbians. When I discovered BF I was thrilled there were others like me. I've dated all types of people but have concluded, at this stage of my life I am lesbian- whatever the fuck that means. I don't know about lesbian death bed but I can see where two mature women reach a place of comfort and where intimacy doesn't have to include an orgasm. I can take or leave dildos or whatever kind of name you wanna give it BUT the vibrator stays! (wink) For me it all boils down to finding a connection and feeling a deep beautiful intimate spiritual connection. After everything I'd done, seen, been and know I am guessing this will be a lesbian butch woman. If its not then thats ok too.

[BullDog]

That if you are a stone butch or stone femme you are not a lesbian. That just gets the big :| from me. Not all stone butches and stone femmes are lesbians, but there are plenty that are. There is no conflict.

On a related but more general topic many people, including many butches and femmes, seem to think lesbian sex is narrow in scope when in fact lesbians have sex in as many ways, shapes and forms as any type of person. Kinky, vanilla, stone etc. Just because there usually is not a male involved (although at times there are) doesn't make lesbian sex or sexuality limited or narrow or leave a bunch of things out or make us less sexually fulfilled, adventurous, etc.

[Sachita]

That if you are a stone butch or stone femme you are not a lesbian. That just gets the big :| from me. Not all stone butches and stone femmes are lesbians, but there are plenty that are. There is no conflict.

On a related but more general topic many people, including many butches and femmes, seem to think lesbian sex is narrow in scope when in fact lesbians have sex in as many ways, shapes and forms as any type of person. Kinky, vanilla, stone etc. Just because there usually is not a male involved (although at times there are) doesn't make lesbian sex or sexuality limited or narrow or leave a bunch of things out or make us less sexually fulfilled, adventurous, etc.

well they say the most important thing is the mind. I agree with that. I don't think it matters what kind of sex two people have. You're right, most people think all lesbians do is bump and grind.

I don't know about many of you but when I came out as a teen all I saw was mostly dykes and butches. There were fewer femmes or at least the bars and groups i attended in South Florida. As years went on more femmes started appearing. In fact I was ultra femme and was often thought of being bisexual and for the most part dykes ignored me. My buddy once told me I scared them because I was so femme and attractive. So I put on 501's and a polo shirt but there was no escaping my feminine persona, not to mention huge boobs and big round ass. Even among the lesbians/dykes I wasn't taken seriously back then because I didn't "look" lesbian.

Times have changed for sure. I don't think there are many myths as there were in the past. People seem much more tolerant. I personally get sick of all the labels trying to define who I am.

[Sweet_Amor_Taino]

Ok I beleive that everyone is different and everyone has the right to love and fuck as they please BUT for me being an old school Butch I can not mentally imagine myself being fucked by my femme. OK you could call me Narrowed mind, limited, old fashion its OK I have been called all that already... I am just sharing. :sunglass:

[JoSchmooze]

She thought I was a lesbian just because I joined the Army, to serve my country. I'm like, hello! :seeingstars: I'm serving my country because I'm frickin' patriotic ya know?! She didn't find out until 20 years later that I am indeed a lesbian.:shocking:

Back in the day, you needed both parents' signature
if you were younger than 21.
My father tells me and Mom, "only 2 reasons a woman would volunteer for the Army - either
she's a whore or a queer".....

Never had to sell it, so I guess I ain't a "whore"....and slowly realized I was queer!

:cigar2: :cigar2: :cigar2:

[Chinajewelry]

Lesbian dust! I love that :D

[~baby~doll~]

i had a cousin who told me i would get tired of being with women. i would grow out of it because the sexual energy comes from the men. i chuckled because she really believed this. i am still with my same woman and in a family of women. i do not hate men. i have many male friends. i believe they are sexual as well as women. i think we all have sexual energy and express it in our own way. Some like it gentle. Some like it rough. The energy comes from the closeness our sex creates within.
Lesbian bed death has been covered. i think it happens. i think it happens in heterosexual pairings. Bed death happens when the love excitement and or desire is gone. Sex can grow very old in the missionary position, even if one has a cock or straps. If a couple, poly group or just a group adds new twists and turns, bed death no such thing, if sex is vibrant an a source of enjoyment. just sayin

[Daktari]

I was asked by a hetero guy, at a meeting last year, during a discussion about sexuality and identity, if all lesbians are aggressive.

"No, we just save it all up for you Jason!" was my reply. :seeingstars: There was no point in belabouring the point on how I actually identify.

[Chinajewelry]

Actually, sometimes I hate men :tease: Especially when they do #10!

[TruTexan]

I always get asked which one likes to be the man in the relationship and which one the woman????????
Just another myth men come up with. LOL

I usually just so neither to being a man and both to being a woman. It leaves them all confuckleminded. lmao

[carrotbottom]

Not really a myth, but I still somehow have people asking me in 2018 if I neeeed to use gay sex toys (https://blissfulcherry.com/sex-toys/) to have quality sex with a woman. Like as if they don't think cunnilingus, fingering or even scissoring is adequate enough! Pretty ridiculous, anyway that was my mini-rant :)

[Chained Daisy]

Not really a myth, but I still somehow have people asking me in 2018 if I neeeed to use gay sex toys (https://blissfulcherry.com/sex-toys/) to have quality sex with a woman. Like as if they don't think cunnilingus, fingering or even scissoring is adequate enough! Pretty ridiculous, anyway that was my mini-rant :)

And how would you differentiate `gay sex toys` from `straight sex toys` ?

Surely a sex toy can be used by any sexual orientation ?

[MaddieRobbie]

...the term "lesbian sex".

When I'm having sex I never think "Hey, this is really good lesbian sex" just as when I eat breakfast and think "These are seriously good lesbian eggs", you know?

It's just sex.

I also hate when anyone asks "Who's on top?" It shows how people only see sex through the antiquated view of gender - that someone's gotta be the girl, and someone's gotta be the boy.

I've also gotten some grief from being "too femme" from others. Mostly in college where the my wearing a sundress or having long hair was seen as some kind of "betrayal to the cause". I caved too - shaving my head, wearing less obviously "feminine" clothing - but I found I didn't like the hypocrisy of people who didn't like being told how to live their lives...telling me how I should live mine.

...just my two cents worth.