boundaries

[rawk]

Not sure if this is the best place, but this pertains to boundaries not being respected.

The scenario I've experienced and would like a little discussion on, please...

I'm establishing events and boundaries with a potential sexual and bondage partner. We've already set the big boundaries(safe word, no media recording, complete discretion, etc...) So that's looking good.

Mind you, we are long distance and planning on our first exchange soon.

Recently, I've gotten annoyed with her lack of simple boundaries such as initiating phone sex when I say very emphatically I have to get to sleep for work...and no, it's not a role play or anything like that. It's a very set boundary and issue that is important I've expressed.

My thought is, if she's compromising even these small boundaries in her own interest of having her own good time...what am I going to find when/if I follow through and go to her place for what we've both agreed will be a sexual encounter?

My instinct is telling me this is a big red flag, I'll be on her turf, and it's not a good idea at all.

Just want to know I'm not overreacting.

Thanks in advance...:seeingstars:

[atomiczombie]

Not sure if this is the best place, but this pertains to boundaries not being respected.

The scenario I've experienced and would like a little discussion on, please...

I'm establishing events and boundaries with a potential sexual and bondage partner. We've already set the big boundaries(safe word, no media recording, complete discretion, etc...) So that's looking good.

Mind you, we are long distance and planning on our first exchange soon.

Recently, I've gotten annoyed with her lack of simple boundaries such as initiating phone sex when I say very emphatically I have to get to sleep for work...and no, it's not a role play or anything like that. It's a very set boundary and issue that is important I've expressed.

My thought is, if she's compromising even these small boundaries in her own interest of having her own good time...what am I going to find when/if I follow through and go to her place for what we've both agreed will be a sexual encounter?

My instinct is telling me this is a big red flag, I'll be on her turf, and it's not a good idea at all.

Just want to know I'm not overreacting.

Thanks in advance...:seeingstars:

Sounds like a big ol' red flag to me. Go with your gut, it is telling you the right thing. Learn to trust it. I wouldn't play with someone who won't respect something as basic as that. Respect is a two way street, and in a D/s situation that doesn't and shouldn't change.

[Gayla]

If your gut tells you it's a red flag, it's a red flag.

If you're even questioning it, that should be telling enough. It might be best to go back over the big, and little, boundaries. Make sure they are very clear to both of you. Even if you consider this is "small" boundary issues, it's important enough to you that you came here to ask about it. That makes it seem like a big deal.

Also, I would be remiss in my duties if I didn't comment on the other part of your post. From what you've said, I'm assuming that this will be a first meeting and it sounds like it may be at her home. Please, please, please take the appropriate safety precautions.

Set the initial meeting for a public place.
Set up safe calls.
Have an alternate plan in place so you will not be depending on her for transportation, housing, etc. if it does not go well.

And most importantly, don't question your gut. It knows you better than a bunch of people on the Interwebs. :)

[Diva]

Three words: Trust Your gut.

[rawk]

Love to you all for the quick replies. Just wanted to know I wasn't overreacting for sure! The funny thing is I'm the D in this deal! But it's felt really lopsided, especially with actions like those.

I'm sort of cracking back into the whole scene after a very significant break. And this one is not going to be happening.

I'm going to go with my gut, and just pass.

Again, thanks so much. If you'd like to continue the discussion, I'd love that...for others who might experience the same.

:bingo:

[Miss_Tia]

I am not a leather gal so I am going to make mistakes in some terms, I think, in answering you

first, are you the Top or the bottom? Uhmmm..or the Domme of the sub?Whichever one is appropriate.

I ask, because if she is the sub and she is pushing boundaries, then you arent using skill in dealing with her

if she is the Domme, and she is pushing boundaries, is she doing so to see how you react? To see if you will actually demand what you need? It might be her way of seeing if you would use the safe word when you need it, in actualy play.

And sounds to me, like you arent respecting your own boundaries. Yes, she isnt...shame on her maybe. But you know, they are YOUR boundaries and YOUR needs. Why are you expecting her to heed them if you wont? If they were discussed and you expressed with clarity, that you need (XYZ) and when she stretches so you cant get (XYZ), its YOUR responsibility to take care of yourself.

Personally, it sounds like she isnt someone who will honor your boundaries in real time

but frankly, it sounds like neither will you and you will put the blame on her afterwards...

be responsible about yourself...listen to your gut. Put your heels to the ground and say no and mean it...

(just my opinion and mine alone)

[Jesse]

If you want your boundaries to be respected by others, you must first respect them. Pay attention to those red flags, they often are your boundaries screaming because someone is stepping on/over them.

[rawk]

well, the deal is I am breaking back into the scene, and she isn't really a part of it anymore. she wants free play without clear D/s, but wants to be s if we do any bondage...so, very astute in the observation that I'm not setting enough of a relationship...I really was more into this just to try to see how i felt about any level of D/s now that I'd like to work within that kind of dynamic again.

I honestly get the sense that she's telling me what she thinks I want to hear, and is planning to do whatever she likes once I am there, and unable to leave without a real effort.

It's been building because every time I've attempted to establish boundaries, she's undermined them and refused to really adhere to the role she said she desired.

So, yeah, very loose structure, which should have been my first red flag. I'm rusty, though.

This honestly felt a lot like my first exchange, which was in an established non-leather relationship where we ended up in D/s with role reversal. It went wrong because my then partner wasn't sure what she really wanted from it. For me, it's been about that growing exchange and exploration of self through sexual expression and discipline.

But I'd had some level of experimentation prior to that old relationship.

This time around, this was always going to be a sort of NSA type deal with play in the roles.

I know that's hard to follow. Your reply makes me realize where the whole thing just went sour...and that was in the beginning, agreeing to anything without set roles.

Getting my feet wet again, so this is helpful:)

[deeperstill]

well, the deal is I am breaking back into the scene, and she isn't really a part of it anymore. she wants free play without clear D/s, but wants to be s if we do any bondage...so, very astute in the observation that I'm not setting enough of a relationship...I really was more into this just to try to see how i felt about any level of D/s now that I'd like to work within that kind of dynamic again. ...

It's been building because every time I've attempted to establish boundaries, she's undermined them and refused to really adhere to the role she said she desired....


rawk, her wanting to be "s" if you do bondage sounds to me like she wants to be a bottom in that exchange--not a submissive.

[adorable]

I know for me personally that I struggle when it comes to trusting myself. I can see big red flags and overlook them thinking that things will change if I do better, am better, think faster, if I were prettier....the list can go on and usually does.

I fall into the trap of wanting to believe and sometimes even make believe. It's sad really. I know, sigh, cry me a river.

Role structure, I have discovered, is very important to me too. I also like words and actions to match. People can say anything, but what they actually do is the true test. If you she doesn't respect a boundary now, it doesn't seem like she would suddenly start when you meet. Respect matters. If she cares about you and how you feel then she should hear you.

Sometimes, the reverse is also true for me. So if I am telling someone that I have to go to sleep, but what I DO is stay on the phone with them anyway - then the message that person is getting is that what I am saying and what I am doing is different. That means, I don't really need to listen to what they say because really we both want the same thing.

[rawk]

I'm really thankful for the input. It sounds like neither one of us had a clear cut enough view of the roles.

Just not a good situation to play in that.

The phone thing was my last straw. I adamantly tried to get off the phone and she kept going. I excused myself from the call to her getting upset.

It's probably a function of all of the above. But I know for me, it was a clear action that set off huge signals of STOP in me.

This all is helping me structure my own self for the future. I'm taking it all in for sure!

[Duchess]

Intuition is a gift of enlightenment. Nobody will take care of you better than yourself.(f)

Duchess

[The_Lady_Snow]

Not sure if this is the best place, but this pertains to boundaries not being respected.

The scenario I've experienced and would like a little discussion on, please...

I'm establishing events and boundaries with a potential sexual and bondage partner. We've already set the big boundaries(safe word, no media recording, complete discretion, etc...) So that's looking good.

Mind you, we are long distance and planning on our first exchange soon.

Recently, I've gotten annoyed with her lack of simple boundaries such as initiating phone sex when I say very emphatically I have to get to sleep for work...and no, it's not a role play or anything like that. It's a very set boundary and issue that is important I've expressed.

My thought is, if she's compromising even these small boundaries in her own interest of having her own good time...what am I going to find when/if I follow through and go to her place for what we've both agreed will be a sexual encounter?

My instinct is telling me this is a big red flag, I'll be on her turf, and it's not a good idea at all.

Just want to know I'm not overreacting.

Thanks in advance...:seeingstars:


It's pretty simple

If you are the D in the D/s you set up the rules

No exceptions, no buts, no I gotta haves.

If that is not clear there maybe some back and forth.

If the behaviour continued a simple hey how about you let me go to sleep, adhere to what *I* am saying and click you hang up.

You are the Dom correct? If this person continues to push the boundaries then obviously setting them straight is in order or just coming to the conclusion that perhaps you should not play with someone who can't even follow the instructions *bed time* is not a good idea.

You live in Seattle from what I see there is a large leather community, if you would like I can give you some resources so you can get your feet wet again closer to your area.

I wish you luck on your new found journey and hope you go with instinct.:praying:

[honeybarbara]

having been on both sides -

I personally know that I like SAMS - but only in scene. And I am one. heh.

however, certain simple things need to be extremely clear. As a Domme, *I* need a safe word too. It makes it easier for the other person to know "don't push this point. I'm completely serious and I'm not fucking about, this will stop and I will leave."

Luckily, I have a partner that understands. I can get flashbacks as a Domme, not just a bottom. I can panic. I can stop and there's to be no argument. Just like they can.

I no longer fuck about with this. either people accpet me as human when I domme or they can go find someone to service top them.

[CherylNYC]

I think it's really important for the top/D/M to have a safe word, or some other way to clearly and immediately communicate 'I'm not playing now.' I was taught this many years ago, but it seems to have fallen out of fashion. I hope that, like hip huggers, safe-words for all becomes cool again.

[jenny]

There have been lots of really helpful, specific bits of information passed along to you in this thread, Rawk, so I won't repeat them all. The one piece of advice I'd give is that if you're newer to the scene and looking to see where/how you fit, and what feels good to you, get out in your own community and poke around a bit. Seattle has a really vibrant, active kink community, and exploring in public initially is a great way to ensure that you stay safe! It's been said a bunch of times, but trusting your gut is imperative!

I, for one, am glad you brought up this issue by starting this thread. Putting issues/scenarios like yours out for discussion is a wonderful thing, because it has the potential to educate many people by passing important information around to others. Thank you!!

[Bit]

It's been building because every time I've attempted to establish boundaries, she's undermined them and refused to really adhere to the role she said she desired.

This is MORE than just a red flag. This is a sign of a seriously dysfunctional person, someone who is unable to sustain the normal requirements of a relationship. If she consistently undermines boundaries in this most important area of a relationship, she will consistently undermine them in all areas of a relationship.

This is not okay for any dynamic, including vanilla.

If she cannot sustain respect for you-as-a-human-being over the phone when she's on her best behavior (needing sleep before work is not a Dom/me trait, it's a human trait), she will certainly be unable to sustain respect for you in person.

I myself would not visit; I also would end the relationship. But then, I've already done my share of trying-to-fix-things/giving-second-chances relationships. *wry smile*

Best of luck to you, whatever you might decide to do.

[rawk]

a huge thank you to everyone! I plan to take the advice re: getting resources for getting my feet wet again, along with the safe word for the top or dom(I'm secure in my past and future desire to top...just not sure if I'll go the road of Dom). I totally feel the flashback thing. I was both angry about that final straw boundary break, and adamant that it wasn't going to work out.

Your discussion has helped me shape my resolve to keep tabs on my own self too, during all this re-entry.

I can't let my own inner boundaries suffer or become distracted.

Any info re the Seattle scene you want to pm me would be VERY welcomed! I've only met a couple people here, and they don't live here full time. I wasn't able to go to a private party due to other plans.

So yeah, very very happy I posted here. This is great!

[rawk]

Update on the whole shebang. Sorry in advance for that pun.

Everything turned out to be a case of crossed communication that sorted itself out very easily. I wish I could actually delete this thread in some ways, because I should have calmed down before posting and working myself up even more about it.

Anyway, thanks so much, and be well:)

[MidnightBlueEyes]

Update on the whole shebang. Sorry in advance for that pun.

Everything turned out to be a case of crossed communication that sorted itself out very easily. I wish I could actually delete this thread in some ways, because I should have calmed down before posting and working myself up even more about it.

Anyway, thanks so much, and be well:)

No reason to want to delete it. Its actually a VERY good subject and one that isnt often discussed here although there are alot of folks here in BDSM. I am loving seeing more discussions here.

We all need to step back sometimes and re-asses (that just looks so wrong.. lol) the situation.

I recently was mentoring/considering someone who constantly pushed me. He liked to see the meaner side of me and well.... that pissed me off. He eventually found his way out of my consideration for overstepping those boundaries. However, I let it go on way too long. I learned a lesson in that exchange. As the Dominant "I" have control of what happens. If I dont take that control then I am undermining my position in the relationship.

Sounds like you are learning that very thing now. So dont feel bad. Learn from it, grow with it and continue on your journey.

Snow has some great advice about getting involved with your local community as well.

Be well.