"You're Not A Lesbian......" So Annoying!

[kix4funchick]

Okay well I have just decided to come out to whoever asks and I do identify as Pomosexual since I'm like -0.00000000000000000001/4% attracted to male-bodied people (like not even really attracted, but that's just saying that there's that much chance that I MIGHT be attracted to male-bodied people) and like a bajillion% attracted to female-bodied people. So basically, I'm a lesbian, but I just don't like labeling myself because....I just don't, and that's just me.

Okay, so because I don't feel like explaining my sexuality, I just say I'm gay. Because basically, I AM. Well there have been twice where I was told I wasn't. One woman was like "You're not a lesbian! You're bisexual!" Another was like "You're not gay, you just need to experiment." I found this to be annoying. How would anybody know what you are except for you? Plus I HAVE experimented. I've had enough boyfriends to know that guys just aren't for me.

Has anybody else had similar situations like this?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Yes.

My answer to that question

I'm a Queer Femme, who I fuck is not your business ;)

Don't let ANYONE make you question who you are, life is to short, sex feels to good for you to miss out on because of someone elses hang ups!

[princessbelle]

We all evolved to who we are today and most are still evolving. Don't worry so much...is my .2.

Reading, growing, studying, emerging, enveloping, understanding IS belonging. Lables are only specific to individuals who lable themselves..no one else.

Relax....it's not a open shut case. It don't have to be in a neat little box with a bow on top even though we may feel it should. Try to let go of that.

Just be you....that's what we are all trying to do...

Hugs.

[EnderD_503]

How would anybody know what you are except for you?

The answer: nobody could know that except for you. Many people out there just aren't comfortable with anything that isn't the "norm" or isn't like them, but that's their problem. In the end it doesn't matter what people say, doesn't matter how much a person has "experimented" or not, it's about how they experience themselves inside.

I think most on this forum have experienced something similar to what you've described to some degree or other, but I think most would agree that the best thing to do is just be who you are despite what other people say. They could never know unless you told them, and who you are really isn't up to them. Other than just be yourself, it might also be helpful to find a community wherein you can be yourself without worrying about people judging you.

[chefhottie25]

this use to happen to my ex girlfriend all the time. the worst part about it was that the comments mostly came
from her gay guy friends. it made her previous girlfriend paranoid...always questioning if she was really a
lesbian...and making comments every time she would talk innocently to guys. i was annoyed that she had to
always had to defend her sexuality. i felt bad for her. i could only be supportive. it wasn't an experience that
i could relate to. when someone claims how they choose to identify it is not open for discussion. it needs to
be respected. i offer my compassion to anyone going through this.

[betenoire]

Sometimes it feels like labels only exist to make OTHER people happy/comfortable.

You know. "Since you self-identify as lmnop and I self-identify as wxyz I know that you are inherently different from me." Which is, of course, bullshit.

ESPECIALLY to me it feels like bullshit when it comes to queer/gay/lesbian/bi/pansexual/whatever females. ESPECIALLY when those females are partnered with other females. You self-identifying as pomosexual and me self-identifying as queer means SHIT to people outside of the umbrella - and because it means shit to them we end up having a zillion similar experiences.

Because when it all boils down to it - no matter how you or I self-identify we are both females who (for the most part) partner with other females. Our fight isn't all that fucking different from the fight that gay women and lesbians have to fight.

A little less division, if you please?

[Chazz]

Okay well I have just decided to come out to whoever asks and I do identify as Pomosexual since I'm like -0.00000000000000000001/4% attracted to male-bodied people (like not even really attracted, but that's just saying that there's that much chance that I MIGHT be attracted to male-bodied people) and like a bajillion% attracted to female-bodied people. So basically, I'm a lesbian, but I just don't like labeling myself because....I just don't, and that's just me.

Okay, so because I don't feel like explaining my sexuality, I just say I'm gay. Because basically, I AM. Well there have been twice where I was told I wasn't. One woman was like "You're not a lesbian! You're bisexual!" Another was like "You're not gay, you just need to experiment." I found this to be annoying. How would anybody know what you are except for you? Plus I HAVE experimented. I've had enough boyfriends to know that guys just aren't for me.

Has anybody else had similar situations like this?

Heck, I believe you. :p

But no, I haven't had similar situations. I looks like a lesbian. :farmer:

Whatever that means.

[LotusFlower]

I have had that happen - now why do you think I have been attending this gay event for months? Are there not other femmes here? Why in the world would you think I am straight???????????????

[EnderD_503]

Because when it all boils down to it - no matter how you or I self-identify we are both females who (for the most part) partner with other females. Our fight isn't all that fucking different from the fight that gay women and lesbians have to fight.

A little less division, if you please?

Agreed on the division bit and in general. And to add to that, the fight ain't all that different from what most within the LGBT spectrum have to deal with. Lesbian, queer, gay male, trans what have you, nobody is left out of the discrimination tossed at us in general. It's far easier to fight that unified than divided.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Okay well I have just decided to come out to whoever asks and I do identify as Pomosexual since I'm like -0.00000000000000000001/4% attracted to male-bodied people (like not even really attracted, but that's just saying that there's that much chance that I MIGHT be attracted to male-bodied people) and like a bajillion% attracted to female-bodied people. So basically, I'm a lesbian, but I just don't like labeling myself because....I just don't, and that's just me.

Okay, so because I don't feel like explaining my sexuality, I just say I'm gay. Because basically, I AM. Well there have been twice where I was told I wasn't. One woman was like "You're not a lesbian! You're bisexual!" Another was like "You're not gay, you just need to experiment." I found this to be annoying. How would anybody know what you are except for you? Plus I HAVE experimented. I've had enough boyfriends to know that guys just aren't for me.

Has anybody else had similar situations like this?


jesus. everyday when I first came out. you wouldn't *believe* how many of my dyke mates/dyke acquaintances/people in the local community told me I was not a dyke/a lesbian id'd bisexual/not really a lesbian/a piece of fluff etc etc etc.

I refused to ID as a lesbian for several years because of it. I just used queer. I thought "fine if you don't want me in your club, fuck you, I'm not."

then after a while, after moving cities a few times, meeting many people on websites and events etc, I personally realised only I get to define what lesbian means to me. I also really don't appreciate some wankstain telling me who I am. you aren't a lesbian just makes me roll my eyes - and I rarely ever hear it now, due to where I live now. when I do hear it, it's from newly out dykes with something to prove in a line up for gay club.

I only get that annoying question/statement from long term queers when I go out in a town, rather than a big city. they basically need to get out a bit more, as they obviously haven't lived outside their social group since the 80's.


Normally it's because they are inexperienced. Age doesnt' have much to do with it though - I had plenty of islander dykes in their 40's telling me I wasn't lesbian. They were just very small town and hadn't bothered travelling much or living outside their social circle. It's a dead give away they haven't experienced much lately in their lives.

It says absolutely nothing about you and exposes them for their a) ignorance and b) How many pieces of toilet paper do you use when you take a dump? cause you aren't wiping well enough. That shit is sticking to you.

[Tangle]

While I don't actually identify as a "lesbian," I so understand the disappointment and indignance brought on by people in the queer community who question my stated identity and tell me that the way I love is just too different. People in the dyke community - who *should* understand the need for non-judgment and a person's right to determine her own boundaries and definitions - can be extremely boxed in. I guess it's just the story of humanity that we all want to identify self from other, in from out, safe from threat ... but it is just plain hurtful sometimes when you expect to feel like you're in a safe space, and a big part of your core self (who you love and how you express it) is criticized.

I guess the beauty of experience, though, is the grace to be able to say "fuck it" and live your life. With a smile and curtsie!

[PumaJ]

It seems that some folks just can't see past stereotypes, even in our community and in the Queer community in general.

I've never been hassled or told I'm not a Lesbian, or am too Femme to be a Lesbian by anyone in the communities I've hung out in. There have been a few hetero guys who've had some trouble wrapping their brains around the concept over the years and recently a young Bi guy questioned me. But, overall I've not gotten the "you're not a Lesbian" accusation from others within the community. Maybe it is living on the West Coast that makes the diff, IDK.

Within a couple to three years of coming out, I got hassled a bit by some of the radical lesbian feminists in my outer circle about being "too femme". They didn't like that I wore mascara. The Dykes who were really Butches never hassled me, and the "older" Butches and Femmes encouraged me. :blueheels:

[WILDCAT]

While I don't actually identify as a "lesbian," I so understand the disappointment and indignance brought on by people in the queer community who question my stated identity and tell me that the way I love is just too different. People in the dyke community - who *should* understand the need for non-judgment and a person's right to determine her own boundaries and definitions - can be extremely boxed in. I guess it's just the story of humanity that we all want to identify self from other, in from out, safe from threat ... but it is just plain hurtful sometimes when you expect to feel like you're in a safe space, and a big part of your core self (who you love and how you express it) is criticized.

I guess the beauty of experience, though, is the grace to be able to say "fuck it" and live your life. With a smile and curtsie!

__

I would LOVE for your "stated identity; your right to determine your own boundaries and definitions" to be understood and respected - as I would love for mine to be as well. Especially in our community.

(w)

Thank you so much for sharing this.


(*Thanks for letting me share here... WILDCAT)

[PumaJ]

Rock on Aryka!

EO0Mu0I-XOU






:blueheels:

[Quintease]

The first person who told me I 'wasn't really a lesbian' was the second lesbian friend I ever had and just as femme as me! 5 years later she got with the man who is now her husband.

Since then I've had it from Drag Queens ('watch her, she's clearly not a lesbian), gay men ('are you a lipstick lesbian?'), straight men in gay clubs ('I saw you and thought, no, she's not a lesbian'), other lesbians ('so, you like sleep with men as well don't you?'), and straight couples at gay prides/events ('you're so pretty you can't be a lesbian, you could have any man you want!'). It was all so IRRITATING!

Only now I really am with a man and suddenly its 'What? But you're a LESBIAN! What's going on?'. One of my friends even warned my bf not to get 'too attached' as I was clearly going to break his heart.

I think people just like to be contrary, so you may as well stick to Pomosexual.

[undone]

When I first came out and began a relationship and trying to figure out how meet, relate, god help me to date other women was a force to be reckoned with for me. (mind you thins is after having been married way to young, to an obstinate, macho man, and living in a very small town where the folks I knew were not so inclusive.) I did not know where or who to turn to once I got my head space and really knew for certain. My friends did not/could not understand so I took to the web (that was still really new to me since my ex husband felt like I would some how break such a precious machine by looking at it. I think he just did not like that I was faster at learning it than he was and could find things like the history button and see what he did on the nights I was the closing manager)

Sorry back to the topic… I went through my own issues of trying to figure out how I fit and trying to make new friends that I could relate to easier than my old ones or better who would relate to me with out feeling like I was something so different. I was semi professional in my regular dress and always feminine and felt absolutely invisible to every one. I was new at this but it was not something I was unsure about when I came to the life I wanted. I knew and wanted every one else to know also!!! I didn’t care who, but if I ever tried to go some where with out my girlfriend at the time I was seriously shut out. From younger girls bois women blocking my way in to a club, or what the hell looks from some one when I finally pushed through to get inside that I would try to talk to even just a little. As a painfully shy woman this pained me horribly.

To the dismay of my partner at the time I started changing the way I dressed outside of work because I hated feeling like I was an outcast and did not belong, maybe that would be enough to let me get my foot in the door? Of course that was foolish of me and I eventually came to realize that I am who I am and love skirts and dresses and like being girly even though I tend to be rougher and tougher than the women I have dated or known.

I never took to the label of lesbian but I love the term queer and gay, lesbian to my mind and perception is so defined and some what excluding , but queer and gay well I love that it includes ever one of us. And not because I want to be a part of a majority or some silly thing like that but because we all have some way a similar experience, another trying to lesson us because of the way our hearts souls and minds are geared towards something intimate, personal, and privet .

I suppose that my point is I think at least for my self and maybe for some that realize, come to terms with, or just learn to acknowledge that we are more drawn to a woman sexually latter in life, That we might go through a second hopefully much shorter and hopefully more intelligent version of pubescence in learning our selves our strengths and learning to trust ourselves to know our own self.

Boy I hope I make some sense here, it's been a very long day but I felt like I had something I wanted to share I just hope I wrote it the way I intend for it to be read and understood.

:pendulum:

[Nat]

I had a palmreader tell me I wasn't "meant for this life" and that "something happened" that caused me to be "that way" - all while looking vampily meaningfully into my eyes.

Then she told me somebody who doesn't believe in Jesus had put a curse on me and for a hundred bucks, she could reverse it - and otherwise it would destroy my relationship.

Then she read my partner's palm and told her "not to break my heart."

So all y'alll non-jesus-loving cursers, please remove your curses because I don't have an extra hundred to spare. :P

[PumaJ]

Boy I hope I make some sense here, it's been a very long day but I felt like I had something I wanted to share I just hope I wrote it the way I intend for it to be read and understood. ~undone

Well, undone, you made a lot of sense to me and I appreciate that you shared that part of your story with us. Rock on sister! You totally get to define and embody your own heartfelt expression of Femme. :cheer:

I had a palm reader tell me I wasn't "meant for this life" and that "something happened" that caused me to be "that way" ~ Nat

Nat, I truly hope you have been ROFL :rofl: over this dubious claim.

[greeneyedgrrl]

I've never been hassled or told I'm not a Lesbian, or am too Femme to be a Lesbian by anyone in the communities I've hung out in. There have been a few hetero guys who've had some trouble wrapping their brains around the concept over the years and recently a young Bi guy questioned me. But, overall I've not gotten the "you're not a Lesbian" accusation from others within the community. Maybe it is living on the West Coast that makes the diff, IDK.


def not the west coast that makes the diff... i've been told by heteros i'm too "femme" to be a lesbian, that it's just a phase.. haha :p and i've been told by b/f i'm not "femme" enough or i'm not "femme" in the right way. i am so glad that THEY don't get to decide. :)

[NJFemmie]

I think EVERY lesbian has experienced the "you're not a lesbian" theory at some point in their lives. Point blank, no one can tell you how and what to feel, and especially can't tell you who you should have those feelings for ...
so, rock on lesbian. :hangloose: Dare to be yourself - whoever that may be.

[Lillie]

As a Femme who is out at work I don't usually get the shock and awe look!..HOWEVER..when I first came out at work no one would believe me :( some made ignorant statements like "no way..you have kids..you know you love cock" :|..others would say "but your so limited sexually" :| When I told the straight chicks that it is them who are limited sexually you could see their wheels turning..lol..it shut them up and I am sure that there were some very happy husbands that night! lol. Either way the only statement about "your not a lesbian" or "your only a lesbian because of" (insert traumatic even of your chosing here) bothers me more than anything else said to me by straight folks.. I was abandoned by my mother so therefore I seek a womans companionship..that one gets me everytime!..

gives credence to "ignorance is bliss" I guess. :praying:

have a great Hump day!

[atomiczombie]

As a Femme who is out at work I don't usually get the shock and awe look!..HOWEVER..when I first came out at work no one would believe me :( some made ignorant statements like "no way..you have kids..you know you love cock" :|..others would say "but your so limited sexually" :| When I told the straight chicks that it is them who are limited sexually you could see their wheels turning..lol..it shut them up and I am sure that there were some very happy husbands that night! lol. Either way the only statement about "your not a lesbian" or "your only a lesbian because of" (insert traumatic even of your chosing here) bothers me more than anything else said to me by straight folks.. I was abandoned by my mother so therefore I seek a womans companionship..that one gets me everytime!..

gives credence to "ignorance is bliss" I guess. :praying:

have a great Hump day!

Wow, sounds like some of the comments made to you at work constitute sexual harassment.

[starryeyes]

Yes, yes, yes. This happens all the time. Even at Queer events. How could I possibly be a Lesbian!? I dress nice, I wear heels, I wear make up, and I have designer bags. I am just a faghag... yeah that's it! And, I get this the most from our butches, unfortunately **frown**

I have used this as an opportunity to educate... that's all we can do!

Love to you all!
Starry

:pursebee:

[sweet_goldie_grrl]

I've had people tell me that just because I'm super girly that I couldn't possibly be gay. What!! Are you kidding me??? There is no "one way" to be...you are who and how you are!! There was someone who messaged me on this site and said: "You aren't queer. Why are you here?" I was like WTF!! I was so annoyed and mad!! How DARE some asswipe think that because I'm not THEIR definition of what lesbian, queer, gay, etc is, that somehow I don't belong here!! I know where I belong.

I'm a babygirl femme lesban and I'm not going anywhere.

[tapu]

Okay well I have just decided to come out to whoever asks and I do identify as Pomosexual since I'm like -0.00000000000000000001/4% attracted to male-bodied people (like not even really attracted, but that's just saying that there's that much chance that I MIGHT be attracted to male-bodied people) and like a bajillion% attracted to female-bodied people. So basically, I'm a lesbian, but I just don't like labeling myself because....I just don't, and that's just me.

Okay, so because I don't feel like explaining my sexuality, I just say I'm gay. Because basically, I AM. Well there have been twice where I was told I wasn't. One woman was like "You're not a lesbian! You're bisexual!" Another was like "You're not gay, you just need to experiment." I found this to be annoying. How would anybody know what you are except for you? Plus I HAVE experimented. I've had enough boyfriends to know that guys just aren't for me.

Has anybody else had similar situations like this?


I mean no "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts" here, but I do think the people's reactions that you experienced are perfectly reasonable.

Words have meanings that are generally agreed upon culturally. If they didn't we couldn't communicate at all. Lesbian has the meaning of "attracted to women only" for the vast majority of speakers. When you equivocate and say that there is ANY chance you might be attracted to a man, then that triggers the word bisexual for most speakers.

If you wish to go into those details in describing yourself, I don't see how you can expect people to understand that you are using the words differently from their standard, accepted usage.

[DapperButch]

There was someone who messaged me on this site and said: "You aren't queer. Why are you here?" I was like WTF!! I was so annoyed and mad!! How DARE some asswipe think that because I'm not THEIR definition of what lesbian, queer, gay, etc is, that somehow I don't belong here!! I know where I belong.

I'm a babygirl femme lesban and I'm not going anywhere.

I hope you reported them.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I've had people tell me that just because I'm super girly that I couldn't possibly be gay. What!! Are you kidding me??? There is no "one way" to be...you are who and how you are!! There was someone who messaged me on this site and said: "You aren't queer. Why are you here?" I was like WTF!! I was so annoyed and mad!! How DARE some asswipe think that because I'm not THEIR definition of what lesbian, queer, gay, etc is, that somehow I don't belong here!! I know where I belong.

I'm a babygirl femme lesban and I'm not going anywhere.


I agree with Dapper this ugly behavior should be reported:(

[sweet_goldie_grrl]

I hope you reported them.

I agree with Dapper this ugly behavior should be reported:(


I didn't. I probably still could. I still have the email. It was from quite a few months ago.

I just remember feeling so mad and upset. I've NEVER been attacked like that before. It has taken me years to get to where I am now and I'll be damned if I'd let some jerk think that they can make me feel like I don't belong here.

I was just surprised that someone in our community would attack another member. We, as people in this big community, should be coming together, not attacking each other. We all get attacked in some way from people who aren't in our community so it's sad to see it happen amongst ourselves. Every person is different, with different likes, preferences, wants and needs.....someone may not agree or like it, but if they don't, then just leave it alone!! We are all looking for acceptance and a place to belong.

I know where I belong. I belong here, in this community. I belong with my Daddy. He is the center of my world and treats me with the utmost love and respect. That is where I belong.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm truly sorry this happened to you:( I think it would be wise to report this ugly incident it's pretty icky.


[

QUOTE=sweet_goldie_grrl;363048]I didn't. I probably still could. I still have the email. It was from quite a few months ago.

I just remember feeling so mad and upset. I've NEVER been attacked like that before. It has taken me years to get to where I am now and I'll be damned if I'd let some jerk think that they can make me feel like I don't belong here.

I was just surprised that someone in our community would attack another member. We, as people in this big community, should be coming together, not attacking each other. We all get attacked in some way from people who aren't in our community so it's sad to see it happen amongst ourselves. Every person is different, with different likes, preferences, wants and needs.....someone may not agree or like it, but if they don't, then just leave it alone!! We are all looking for acceptance and a place to belong.

I know where I belong. I belong here, in this community. I belong with my Daddy. He is the center of my world and treats me with the utmost love and respect. That is where I belong.[/QUOTE]

[DapperButch]

I didn't. I probably still could. I still have the email. It was from quite a few months ago.

I just remember feeling so mad and upset. I've NEVER been attacked like that before. It has taken me years to get to where I am now and I'll be damned if I'd let some jerk think that they can make me feel like I don't belong here.

I was just surprised that someone in our community would attack another member. We, as people in this big community, should be coming together, not attacking each other. We all get attacked in some way from people who aren't in our community so it's sad to see it happen amongst ourselves. Every person is different, with different likes, preferences, wants and needs.....someone may not agree or like it, but if they don't, then just leave it alone!! We are all looking for acceptance and a place to belong.

I know where I belong. I belong here, in this community. I belong with my Daddy. He is the center of my world and treats me with the utmost love and respect. That is where I belong.

I think you should report it. Otherwise the person may think they can do this to another person who comes to the site.

Just forward the PM to Admin.

[sweet_goldie_grrl]

Thanks y'all for being supportive!! Go to find, the person who sent me that email was banned a while ago, so it's taken care of!! :)

[little_ms_sunshyne]

I have definitely experienced this. It usually sounds like "Weren't you married?" My reply "Yes and that is why I am divorced!" Sheesh...

I am here because I needed a space where I am accepted and there are no boxes or boundaries.

Our lifestyle is amazing. You dont have to fit anyones definition of gay/lesbian/queer. You are free to love whomever you wish, free to explore, free to have fetishes, free to refer to yourself as whatever or whomever you like, free to just be you. I refuse to fit the norm not out of rebellion, but because I only get one shot at this life. I am a nostalgically catholic non practicing christian. A femme all the way with the mind of man. I am a little when there is thunder and all woman in the bedroom. My heart didn't fall in love with a gender but with a soul that fits like a puzzle piece with my own. And while I am still living, I will continue to explore the things that make happy.

Just my two cents...

[Sassy]

Okay well I have just decided to come out to whoever asks and I do identify as Pomosexual since I'm like -0.00000000000000000001/4% attracted to male-bodied people (like not even really attracted, but that's just saying that there's that much chance that I MIGHT be attracted to male-bodied people) and like a bajillion% attracted to female-bodied people. So basically, I'm a lesbian, but I just don't like labeling myself because....I just don't, and that's just me.

Okay, so because I don't feel like explaining my sexuality, I just say I'm gay. Because basically, I AM. Well there have been twice where I was told I wasn't. One woman was like "You're not a lesbian! You're bisexual!" Another was like "You're not gay, you just need to experiment." I found this to be annoying. How would anybody know what you are except for you? Plus I HAVE experimented. I've had enough boyfriends to know that guys just aren't for me.

Has anybody else had similar situations like this?


I suspect certain members of my immediate family secretly consider my current relationship a phase -- a reaction to failed hetero relationships. My favorite quote so far is, "Well, there's nothin' wrong with bein' a li'l gay... *awkward silence follows* ..."

Other than that, I haven't encountered much static over the issue. But then, I'm pretty oblivious to other people. The world is so full of happy, shiny things that distract me, it's hard to pay attention to sour-puss types ;)

-S

[Quintease]

I suspect certain members of my immediate family secretly consider my current relationship a phase -- a reaction to failed hetero relationships. My favorite quote so far is, "Well, there's nothin' wrong with bein' a li'l gay... *awkward silence follows* ..."


My mother was actually happy for me to have met a nice, polite girl after walking out of a disastrous hetero relationship. I was overjoyed that she was so accepting... until I realised her acceptance was based on her belief that my gayness was just a phase.

[Sassy]

My mother was actually happy for me to have met a nice, polite girl after walking out of a disastrous hetero relationship. I was overjoyed that she was so accepting... until I realised her acceptance was based on her belief that my gayness was just a phase.

OK, that makes me cringe a little... I hope your mom comes around and it doesn't hurt your relationship. On my end, I'm giving my family member some time. This person has kids and lives in a small (I'm mean tiny, y'all) southern town. So I assume some of the hesitancy I sense has to do with them deciding whether to be open with their kids about who their aunt's new "friend" is... and that's fine for now. They're all under age 8. I'll let them deal with their kids their way. But they're polite and the kids are polite. And so long as everyone is treating everyone with respect I feel like we're in a good place so far...

[kix4funchick]

I agree with Dapper this ugly behavior should be reported:(

You should reprt them. That's not cool, and the person who messaged you should, of all people, understand since they're a part of this community.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

In the past I've had people comment that I don't 'act' gay/lesbian - I wasn't aware I was supposed too! ......I'm just me - I've always known my preference was/is for women and I show affection in public when with a partner.

I have been asked a couple of times by dates if I'm straight acting - to be honest, I've never known how to answer - I've never thought about it. I accept a woman for the way she is......I accept people as they are, I make no judgements, it's a pity we have to be labelled...

[Spanky]

when i came out in the 80s androgyny was the order of the day. i wore dresses and make-up and no one would talk to me. i tried for a more lesbian look, shaved my head and put on a vest... but that was not me, and in the end, my friends told me i couldn't really pull off butch if my life depended on it.

i appreciate the resurgence of femme our community, but i have had more than one person tell me i do not "look" like a lesbian. i have learned that all that means is that i do not set off their gaydar... those who pay attention see me just fine, for those who come with preconceived notions about what constitutes homosexuality, we are invisible on any plain.

in the mid 90s performance artists Shawna Dempsey and Lorri Milan did a piece that aired on Much Music called what does a lesbian look like that was fantastic... i was trying to find it, but found this instead, not the same thing, but still good, an excerpt from their movie "a day in the life of a bull dyke"

What is a bull dyke ? A Universal appeal in my own Monstrosity - YouTube

[midwest chick]

My daughter is heterosexual, but supports me completely. We were at a *gay* bar with some of her friends, and they got up to dance, while I went in search of the ladies' room. I was shocked when a few well meaning dykes offered to help me find 'my fag', they were shocked by my answer! It does seem to happen more frequently in small insular communities, and the only time I feel like I'm recognized, validated, or visible, is when I'm out with a gentlemyn butch. Is this taking advantage of hym?

How do you all feel about it?

[*Anya*]

It is the universal femme issue. We "look" straight so we are assumed to be straight unless we are with our butches. Unless we can somehow start to look butch, which we are not, or wear large pins that say: I may look straight but am really lesbian (or Stone Femme or whatever you ID as); I don't know what else we can do about it!

It is just the way it is. I don't see it as taking advantage of anyone, if I am somehow perceived to be a lesbian when I am with a butch. I call that a double-happy bonus.

Butches love us as femmes but then they can walk right by a femme and never see us for who and what we are.

Frustrating for both butches and femmes.

[Martina]

People will ID you as lesbian even if you are feminine if you are alternative. i do not have an alternative look. i couldn't do it if i tried. i so resent the people over the years, butch, femme and andro, who have given me that holier than thou look meaning YOU can't be one of us.

[ruby_woo]

I definitely feel everyone on the femme invisibility issue- unless I'm seen with my butch partner, I know I'm assumed to be something I'm not until I tell that person otherwise.

That said, in the 11 years I've been ID'ing as femme, I can't recall anyone ever telling me I can't be a dyke, you're too girly, you must also date men, etc. Sure, they were surprised when I first told them, but pretty much it ended there.

I know this happens, I've heard about it from femmes here and on other sites, I just wonder if I got lucky or something?

[*Anya*]

I definitely feel everyone on the femme invisibility issue- unless I'm seen with my butch partner, I know I'm assumed to be something I'm not until I tell that person otherwise.

That said, in the 11 years I've been ID'ing as femme, I can't recall anyone ever telling me I can't be a dyke, you're too girly, you must also date men, etc. Sure, they were surprised when I first told them, but pretty much it ended there.

I know this happens, I've heard about it from femmes here and on other sites, I just wonder if I got lucky or something?

I have never had anyone tell me I must date men. Parents came close to a few "shoulds". I have had straight guys tell me I didn't "look like" a lesbian, guess because I am femme and I have had straight women be surprised.

I did give some laughs to a couple of butches at the door of an old lesbian bar called The Happy Hour during the late 70's when I came out, when the majority of lesbians were in a more androgynous phase, than femme. I showed up dressed in full femme and they acted like I took a wrong turn on the freeway but that was the only time lesbians ever acted like that towards me.

[yotlyolqualli]

My sister and I are sitting at my Aunt's table. They are drinking coffee, I am drinking my preferred hot drink, peppermint tea. The conversation goes as follows.

Aunt Jane: Malissa, I've known you all of my life. You're not gay.
Me: stunned silence.
Aunt Jane: Besides, I've been with women and it's fun, but it's just a game.
Me: stunned and somewhat grossed out.
Aunt Jane: Besides, your Uncle John (she provided me with 6 uncles, Uncle John being the last one) used to do "that" (oral sex) to me all the time when we first got together, now he doesn't. What are you going to do when "she" (abstract woman) doesn't do it any more?
Me: stunned, horrified, grossed out and pissed off.

I didn't know how to answer her and still be respectful of her position in my life. She was my Mother's only sibling and I knew damned well what Mother would have wanted me to do, and so I did. I smiled, seethed silently, drank my tea and proceded to ignore her.

I now know what my answer should have been.

Next scenario. Sitting in a church room with a woman who used to be my spiritual mentor. The conversation went as follows.

Sharon: Missy (I do not like that nickname, but Mother gave it to me. I prefer Lissa, or Malissa...lol) Missy, are you with someone now?
Me: No.
Sharon: You mean you're not having sex with another woman?
Me: No. (At the time, I was NOT seeing anyone)
Sharon: Well, if you're not having sex, then you're not a lesbian.
Me: thinking, WTF??


Seriously? So, if some single heterosexual person is not sexually active, then they are not really heterosexual?? And, news flash to my Aunt (She's in heaven now, so I have to be nice) Oral sex is just ONE of many different ways of having sex with another woman.

Besides ALL of that.... I resent the entire idea that being a lesbian has ANYTHING to do with sex. I am not a lesbian because I have sex with women. I have sex with women, because I am a lesbian.

[Quintease]

I am not a lesbian because I have sex with women. I have sex with women, because I am a lesbian.

That. Apparently (according to a friend of a friend) gay Italian girls are told to marry boys anyway as ''They can always fake it''. Clearly it's better to be normal than to be happy.

I think there is still a real stigma against heteronormative women behaving in non-heteronormative ways, an underlying belief that we are deliberately rebelling against nature rather than being the women society expects us to be.

[Martina]

i have to say that butches are some of the worst offenders re making me aware of my invisibility as a lesbian. They have been so stared at for so long that some of them are pretty prickly. So when a straight looking woman looks at them, they often return some pretty nasty looks.

Not fun to be given that look by someone you are admiring. i don't know what it is like to be harrassed all your life for being a dyke. i know it's much worse than what i am complaining about. For one thing it includes the potential for violence.

But i sometimes wish butches were a little more gracious when a straight looking woman gives them they eye. So many just assume we're STARING at the lesbian. Well i may be staring, but it's not cause i am appalled that yer a dyke. ANyway, high end problem i know. But when i get those looks, i get pissed. i actually YELLED at some baby butch who gave me a withering look for noticing her, "I was a dyke before you were BORN, sister." Sorta ashamed to admit that. But i had just had my fill of that shit.

[Quintease]

"I was a dyke before you were BORN, sister." Sorta ashamed to admit that.

Ha ha, I have been tempted .. Kudos to you.

[Nadeest]

@ Martina How did she react, when you told her that?

[Midnight]

i have to say that butches are some of the worst offenders re making me aware of my invisibility as a lesbian. They have been so stared at for so long that some of them are pretty prickly. So when a straight looking woman looks at them, they often return some pretty nasty looks.

Not fun to be given that look by someone you are admiring. i don't know what it is like to be harrassed all your life for being a dyke. i know it's much worse than what i am complaining about. For one thing it includes the potential for violence.

But i sometimes wish butches were a little more gracious when a straight looking woman gives them they eye. So many just assume we're STARING at the lesbian. Well i may be staring, but it's not cause i am appalled that yer a dyke. ANyway, high end problem i know. But when i get those looks, i get pissed. i actually YELLED at some baby butch who gave me a withering look for noticing her, "I was a dyke before you were BORN, sister." Sorta ashamed to admit that. But i had just had my fill of that shit.


I'm surprised at this attitude by other butches. When a woman is checking me over, straight or not, sneering look or not, I'll always smile at them and be polite.

[Quintease]

I too know someone, who upon being caught perving on a young butch, was very hurt when the girl not only assumed my friend was straight, but rudely told her so.

[Midnight]

That's terrible! It seems that it's the young ones that are giving us a bad name. Older butches know to assume everyone is gay unless told otherwise ;)

[Midnight]

Just wanted to add that I'm sorry for stepping into femme space. I was just appalled at the actions of those butches.

[Quintease]

That's terrible! It seems that it's the young ones that are giving us a bad name. Older butches know to assume everyone is gay unless told otherwise ;)

I don't think its just the butches, I think femme visibility is also weighted towards the young. How many people do you know who complain that being recognised is almost impossible as you get older, or come out as an older woman, or even just have kids! It seems lesbians are just as susceptible to falling prey to stereotypes as straight people.

[Martina]

@ Martina How did she react, when you told her that?

i guess a little chagrinned but then kinda scared that she got yelled at.

[lisa93]

That's the most disrespectful shit femmes have to deal with