Poly Differences: Fuck-er vs. Fuck-ee

[deeperstill]

i know some of the following terms are loaded, but i am limited by the language i have for it, so please be gentle if you need to critique me, thanks :)
Also, for sake of argument, assume that sex-positivity is not an issue, and that, to the extent that they can be, the shackles of socialization have been dismantled...
And yes, i know that a lot of people are both the doer and the do-ee :) im speaking of folks who primarily identify as Top or bottom

Here we go: i'm not sure if this is b.s. or legit as this comes close to stereotyping, but... i am wondering if there is something unique, something substantively different about *receiving* another into one's body that makes the experience of poly different, perhaps more complicated, for a receiver?

Do bottoms (especially femmes?) tend to have more "trouble" with poly than Tops?
Is it easier for a fuck-er to engage in poly than a fuck-ee? (excluding those instances when a bottom does the fucking (or whatever) as a service of course. :)

my Syr has given permission, so please feel free to PM me if it feels safer to discuss that way. Thank you! :)

:praying:

[Martina]

If you mean by making poly difficult that you miss your Dominant more than hy misses you or you are more jealous, yes, i think that can happen. It's more the result of orgasming more if the sex is as you describe it -- imo. And the nature of D/s means that subs and slaves are at least initially more open and revealed. That can make you more attached, too, and more likely to miss and need hym.

i don't think it's the penetration issue itself. i think it's the power of orgasm -- those pesky and glorious chemicals coursing through your body -- plus the nature of being a sub. It can be hard.

The most common issues are who has a primary and who doesn't. And that sort of thing. i think if you don't and hy does, that might to make it more difficult for you. i mean hy would represent the source of getting some basic needs met while you might not represent that to hym. i don't know if that is hte case.

[Tommi]

i know some of the following terms are loaded, but i am limited by the language i have for it, so please be gentle if you need to critique me, thanks :) ...
Do bottoms (especially femmes?) tend to have more "trouble" with poly than Tops?
Is it easier for a fuck-er to engage in poly than a fuck-ee? (excluding those instances when a bottom does the fucking (or whatever) as a service of course. :)

my Syr has given permission, so please feel free to PM me if it feels safer to discuss that way. Thank you! :)

:praying:

Subscribing because
1. I love the title
2. I can't wait to see the melee when the crowd wakes up
:pile:
*I've known "easy" as who the person is, not their *position.

*Focusing in on needs, Mine or ---> Hmmm. I guess I win if I toss the coin . (f)

[Gayla]

Based on the way you phrased things, I'm thinking this is more a theory that you've heard about, or had someone tell you about, rather than something you actually believe. Based on that, please don't take anything that I'm about to say personally, because my intent is not to bash you but to bash the theory itself all to hell. :)

Even with your disclaimers, the entire concept is nothing but a big, ugly pile of stereotypical sexist bullshit.

First off, and again, I know you didn't state it directly but, butch does not equal top and femme does not equal bottom. I understand that you're probably coming at this from a BDSM related space in which the use of the terms makes some sense but, there are many people involved in poly lifestyles that are not kinky and do not ID as tops or bottoms or switches, etc. Non kinky people do poly, too. Just had to get that one out there.

Poly isn't "easy" for anyone. It takes a tremendous amount of work, communication, trust, etc. for a successful poly relationship to succeed in any type of beneficial way for those involved.

All of that being said, the implication that it is somehow "easier" for a top to be poly than a bottom is so full of shit that I can't even begin to explain why it's full of shit. There is a whole thing going on in my head about how it probably all started with a really condescending statement about a top understanding why a girl would want to keep such an amazing sexual prowess all to herself but I just can't go there. This seems to just perpetuate the myth of the overly sensitive, needy, (femme) bottom and the unfeeling, uncaring (butch) top. Bottoms are not inherently different when it comes to emotions just because they like to get fucked.

Contrary to what many people might think, poly is rarely about just running around willy nilly fucking random people, or being fucked by random people. It's rarely about casual sex, one night stands or hooking up with someone on an out of town trip. Basically, poly isn't a justification to fuck around.

If you (general) have concerns, hesitations, or just plain lack of interest, in being poly, it is in no way connected to how you have sex. To me, this sounds like one of those "theories" that someone (top) might throw out when attempting to justify their own interests in exploring a poly experience while dismissing (belittling even) their (bottom) partner's concerns.

No matter the attempt of reasoning behind it, it's just pretty much crap.



--------------------------

[cougar_b8]

i do not agree with the above poster that it is 'pretty much crap'. i think that yes, there is something to be said with handling poly differently as the bottom or the top, no matter whether butch or femme. That said, though, i think it also has to do with one's amount of poly experience and how each individual handles jealousy. To say there is no jealousy at all or that it never comes up in poly would be a lie, but for those of us able to handle (or even enjoy!) poly the main thing is how W/we deal with those feelings when they do come up. Tops have jealousy too, and don't let yourself be kidded otherwise.

i am one of two slaves and one of multiple play partners to my Master. Interestingly i have absolutely never been jealous of Hys other slave. she is a fantastic example to all around her and a worthy match for Hym. i am jealous of her rank in 'family' events, occasionally, but it passes. i am also now and then jealous of a play partner but that is mostly because i am a little piggie slut and wish it were me getting hit or fucked or whatever. When i focus on 'what does Master want right now', i know that Hy would not be doing something Hy didn't want, which means Hy wants to play with whomever Hy is playing with at the time, jealousy goes bye bye. If my goal in life is to please Hym and to do whatever i can to see that Hy gets whatever Hy wants, then part of my working toward that goal is to keep my emotions in check. It isn't that i can't have them, just that i need to not dwell there and do need the occasional re-focus moment of 'Who is the focus'. And the focus, when i have the sense to think about it consciously, is Master. The thing about being a slave is it isn't just doing actions that M wants or even with the intention and intensity They want, it is also about mastering our own desires, and aligning them with our M's desires.

To get back to the question though of top v's bottom in poly, i learned this lesson the hard way through experience. i attempted to serve two people once for a period of time and it was impossible. That doesn't mean it is impossible for everyone, just that i know that for me myself i am only able to fully serve one person. This M/s relationship is inherently primary to me and i wish it to stay that way. i am only interested in serving this One M, i am only interested in this sort of relationship with this One M. That does not stop me from having a large sadist streak, however, and obviously Hy is not the person to take that out on and neither is any of Hys family. i am privileged to have the freedom to play with others, and i do use that freedom. If i bottom to another it is generally light OR some sort of play that Hy doesn't have an interest in. More commonly i top others. my play with others is sexually charged (sometimes) pure s/m (more often) and actually involving sex (never so far). To put it simply, i am not interested in seeking out sex--where i am the bottom or fuckee as you put it--from others at this time. It is an option for the future and i'll just have to see where that goes. Could i be given away for a time and would i enjoy that? yes of course, but again, that is related to serving Hym. Do i wish to restrict my Master from having sex with others simply because i choose not to? No of course not. Really, Hy can do what Hy wants. i AM minorly interested in using sex as power when i am topping, especially with one very subby play partner i've played with a few times in the past and may play with again soon. i guess i fall into the stereotype, but i am less bonded to someone when i am fucker v's fuckee, yes.

[Cajun_dee]

As a femme bottom I don't find poly difficult at all. (What does *especially femme bottoms mean??) And trust me it has nothing to do with *penetration*. Of course none of us operate from our loins in this household.

[Rook]

Subscribing because
1. I love the title
2. I can't wait to see the melee when the crowd wakes up
:pile:
*I've known "easy" as who the person is, not their *position.

*Focusing in on needs, Mine or ---> Hmmm. I guess I win if I toss the coin . (f)

~~ditto~~that , and I cant type well where I am , itll have to wait (boooo)

[The_Lady_Snow]

i know some of the following terms are loaded, but i am limited by the language i have for it, so please be gentle if you need to critique me, thanks :)
Also, for sake of argument, assume that sex-positivity is not an issue, and that, to the extent that they can be, the shackles of socialization have been dismantled...
And yes, i know that a lot of people are both the doer and the do-ee :) im speaking of folks who primarily identify as Top or bottom

Here we go: i'm not sure if this is b.s. or legit as this comes close to stereotyping, but... i am wondering if there is something unique, something substantively different about *receiving* another into one's body that makes the experience of poly different, perhaps more complicated, for a receiver?

I am the kind of Top who likes to keep things in seperate compartments, it's the micromanager in me;)... I feel by doing this it tends to make my poly a bit less messy... I'm not understanding the whole *receiving* aka getting fucked makes it complicated? Can you expand on this for me please? I'm not understanding the connection...




Do bottoms (especially femmes?) tend to have more "trouble" with poly than Tops?

This question I don't understand because bottoms include boys and not just femme, see for me Top or bottom does not equate fucker or fuckee, me *allowing* the slave to fuck me does not magically make me bottom, it's me being serviced, fucked, me needing an orgasm cause I want it etc etc. Why is it more of a femme trouble?

Is it easier for a fuck-er to engage in poly than a fuck-ee? (excluding those instances when a bottom does the fucking (or whatever) as a service of course. :)

I would hope that it would be smooth for everyone involved since one would discuss poly before entering this arrangement with all people involved, going into a poly relationship is hopefully done with open eyes and discussed A LOT during the gettting to know stage, so no surprises are sprung and no misunderstandings happen. So that way when you see Master playing with another or perhaps penetrating another *play mate* slave does not have OUTWARD BURSTS of insecurities, fears, jealousy reactions. The visual you are seeing should come to no surprise considering you consentually entered into a poly dynamic. That's just how I see it others may disagree, when I take my toyboxes (including slaves in that category) I EXPECT for my implements of leather (including slaves in that catergory) to not have a *surprised* like reaction or a sudden rage of jealousy, my single tail isn't gonna get upset with the flogger if I use it more than the other, I expect the same for ALL MY TOYBOX(slaves included) to live harmoniously within my household. I am open and honest about this fact when entering or considering anyone for my particularly finicky brand of poly.

my Syr has given permission, so please feel free to PM me if it feels safer to discuss that way. Thank you! :)

:praying:

Thank you for reading my ever so difficult and question loaded post:)

Great topic!!!!

[cougar_b8]

ooooh, thank You Lady Snow, i sometimes need to be reminded the right place for slaves, as property and part of toybag. That last bit of what You wrote was very useful and helpful. Thanks!

[MidnightBlueEyes]

subscribing because I cant seem to concentrate on all the posts yet.. lol whining Peppa and tornado warnings kinda make you frazzled.

I look forward to reading everyones replies...

[Rope]

I can see where a bottom or fuck--ee might feel more vulnerable in a relationship or as a play partner of someone that fucks them and others. Would I say a femme bottom vs. a butch bottom feels it more keenly, no. I can see that especially in a M/s relationship in which slaves are often asked to divulge a lot of information, be transparent on the spot, etc. Masters tend to be less forthcoming with emotional information NOT all Masters and NOT all femme or butch Masters---it may or may not be a stereotype for you but I am speaking about myself and the M's I know.

That said, we ask a lot of bottoms and/or slaves to give up about themselves, give over as property and so I can see how that intense giving over of body and in this example, as fuck--ee, could be "more" somehow in the relationship than the M or Top as fucker.

That said, it might be difficult for a bottom in this example to accept or be okay with their M fucking others because for them it's an intense experience and it may be jealousy or insecurity at play, when they think about their M fucking others. But also, that bottom can feel they are giving over (I know you many hate this word, "gift") and therefore difficult not to feel that precious intimacy is now going to others.

I don't measure my relationships with others in terms of they are more or less than my primary relationship---I see them as different and not something to evaluate that way. I don't think, gee, save this intimacy or keep this deeper intimacy for only this person except when I do. There are sexual acts or ways of playing or instruments of torture, I don't use with each person---but I don't need to share the nitty gritty of that with anyone. Sure it might make an insecure slave or bottom feel better for a minute, but their insecurity is theirs and not for me to own.

I would be curious to know from bottoms what makes it "okay" that M or your Top plays with others. What is it rather than focusing on the sexual act (s) that makes it okay for your Top to play with others? Although you're a slave and what M says goes, sharing this doesn't mean it will happen. But getting more transparent rather than just having a 'no' reaction to their play might help. Syr, I'd love it if you never did x with another bottom is acceptable. Expecting a M to adhere to that because you uttered it, not acceptable. BUT many M's will go slow until trust is built and a slave gets on board. Ultimately an unhappy slave will leave, so a M that is not sensitive to where their slave is around their poly won't have them for long. But a slave that's constantly tugging at M or trying to reign Hym/Her in, won't last long either.

In my poly, we have the don't ask/don't tell policy---so if you're the slave that's going to stew at home about what M is up to on Friday night, this policy won't help either.

Rope--

[deeperstill]

Subscribing because
1. I love the title
2. I can't wait to see the melee when the crowd wakes up
:pile:
*I've known "easy" as who the person is, not their *position.

*Focusing in on needs, Mine or ---> Hmmm. I guess I win if I toss the coin . (f)

Indeed, the melee did occur as predicted :)

[deeperstill]

Lady Snow,

i am thinking through poly from different angles, your post helped me see some things clearly - thank you much for that.

I'm not understanding the whole *receiving* aka getting fucked makes it complicated? Can you expand on this for me please? I'm not understanding the connection...

i wasn't entirely sure myself, but having read your and Rope's responses, i *think* i was thinking about the extra-vulnerable space that can sometimes occur when one is a slave: the utter transparency required, and being so intensely open, while a Master is not. So, it may have been a better question had i limited it to M/s D/s relationships.

>Do bottoms (especially femmes?) tend to have more "trouble" with poly than Tops? < This question I don't understand because bottoms include boys and not just femme, see for me Top or bottom does not equate fucker or fuckee, me *allowing* the slave to fuck me does not magically make me bottom, it's me being serviced, fucked, me needing an orgasm cause I want it etc etc. Why is it more of a femme trouble?

Yes Ma'am, i am clear on the service aspect; i meant to focus the question on folks who identify as bottoms/slaves/subs.
As for why my question suggested it might be more of a femme trouble: it's difficult to explain at this point, but part of the reason i included it is just because i wanted to know what other people thought. Someone said something to me recently and it made me think that femmes may experience vulnerabilities around poly a little differently than butches do. Or not :)

P.S. Being a toy in M's toybox...as cougarb8 said, thank you for the reminder :)
(plus, that visual is unbearably hot :) )

[deeperstill]

Yes Syr, your description of the vulnerability that slaves sometimes feel is dead on. And it makes me wonder what happens with that vulnerability in poly scenarios

I can see where a bottom or fuck--ee might feel more vulnerable in a relationship or as a play partner of someone that fucks them and others. Would I say a femme bottom vs. a butch bottom feels it more keenly, no. I can see that especially in a M/s relationship in which slaves are often asked to divulge a lot of information, be transparent on the spot, etc. Masters tend to be less forthcoming with emotional information NOT all Masters and NOT all femme or butch Masters---it may or may not be a stereotype for you but I am speaking about myself and the M's I know.

That said, we ask a lot of bottoms and/or slaves to give up about themselves, give over as property and so I can see how that intense giving over of body and in this example, as fuck--ee, could be "more" somehow in the relationship than the M or Top as fucker.

That said, it might be difficult for a bottom in this example to accept or be okay with their M fucking others because for them it's an intense experience and it may be jealousy or insecurity at play, when they think about their M fucking others. But also, that bottom can feel they are giving over (I know you many hate this word, "gift") and therefore difficult not to feel that precious intimacy is now going to others.


Rope--

[Cajun_dee]

I think the terms fuck-ee /fuck-er threw me off and I was unable to think past that whole concept.

fuck-ee does not equal "bottom/submissive", is this the general assumption?

[June]

I would think if a Top had a really valuable bottom/slave that they would also feel some anxiety about the possibility of losing them, even if they don't have permission to play with others.

So, if the Top was not paying attention and showing how much they value their "toy", since no one lives in a bubble, they could look elsewhere for what they needed/desired.

I'm just thinking out loud here, because I am neither submissive nor particularly service oriented. But people being people, regardless of hierarchy, it seems very likely to me that the anxiety and jealousy could go both ways.

[Cajun_dee]

Another thought is that not all poly households are the same. Not all poly households are *open* arrangements. Some (like ours) are three people who don't venture out of the dynamic and are bound together by love and trust. Not all Dominants are insensitive to the feelings of the subs and help work out those areas of insecurities. Some Dominants care about the feelings of subs, and even though they are aware that we are in a shared love commitment, feel if there is an insecurity that should be addressed and not by being the *fuck-er* to someone else. It's not always a tough cookies slave suck it up situation.

[Luckydwg07]

I feel a great responsibility for the ones that are in my charge.strengths & struggles in both roles I think should not go unchecked so that everyone is fulfilled in the relationship. Everyone's feelings should be accounted for then I decide.that I feel is my job/place

[The_Lady_Snow]

June I personally sleep well at night knowing I'm not going to lose my property, reason being as Owner I'm always checking in on how things are flowing, feelings, head space. I think if I started to get all insecure and anxious cause " something better" may come along it would spill over into my dynamics and kind of kick my compartments around and I am not a fan of messy.

Plus and this will sound pompous and I'm 100% Ok with it- I don't fear losing what is Mine, I'm a good Owner a patient Owner I could go on and on because I'm confident in what I do and it's natural so it's who I am..

I may not be hearts and rainbows I am strong walls and tight security, so being insecure about my M/s relationship is foreign to me'.

Now, doesn't mean things won't evolve and there may be a time I can't offer what is needed, as Owner I have a responsibility to either find what is needed or release so they can grow. It's what we do even after that also makes one a safe place and even then the slave will know how safe they are.

Make sense?

If it's something all dram filled then we are talking a whole other thing cause Snow no likey messy we're all adults no need for Maury Povich moments!

[Silverseastar]

I think ultimately it's like asking if there is a difference between being a Master or slave, or a Daddy versus a girl, or a Butch versus a Femme, or....

Yes, it's different. No, it's not inequal unless perhaps something is unhealthy in what is happening. Equality does not mean access to the same things in the same way. I like the term different but equal. Even in a M/s dynamic there is an equality in odd sort of way. Each has committed to the dynamic, each has expectations put on them, and each has responsibilities. They are just different.

In terms of poly, if I read between the lines, the subtext is that the as a Top/Master/Dominant who gives sexual pleasure instead of receiving it does not feel as attached or vulnerable and that the bottom/sub/slave will be wired that way because of her openness and vulnerability.

I disagree. I have received sex/play and had it be fun and unemotional. Likewise I've had it blow my emotional socks off. It's very specific to the situation and people involved. I've experienced Tops/Masters/Dominants having the same experience.

What I am curious about is the underlying piece here. Is there something that is "for you" triggering a sense of vulnerability? Is there something you are afraid you will lose? Or something you are afraid to give away?

L.

[June]

Okay, so if a M has three s's and one of them is primary and the other two are considered the "same" but because everyone has their own personality, it seems to me of the other two there would be a "favorite" they do things just a little bit better, they are smarter, funnier, cuter, etc.

People know when they are not on even ground (Unless they are clueless and/or too grateful just to have someone) that would cause an imbalance within the relationship, right? So, #3 might feel unsatisfied and go look for someone else who meets their needs better. The Top, even though there is a hierarchy might still not want to lose them and be subject to jealousy and even a sense of loss.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's the sex; receiving/not receiving that makes someone more vulnerable to loss, I think it's the emotions such as pride of ownership/being owned, feeling valuable and treasured, regardless of your position in the relationship.

I am basing this on my own thoughts, because I am not in a poly relationship, but if I was, I would need to be the primary and feel like I was most special, or it wouldn't work for me ;) And that might not work for the others in the relationship. If I didn't feel that way, I would bail and find someone who did treat me the way I wanted/desired.

This is a very interesting topic to me even though it got off to a bumpy start.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Everyone has that special thing that only they can do, I think that's what Master has to zone in on and compliment and boast about giving said slave as a buddy of mine says

"their time to shine" insecurities won't have room to grow if inventories maintenance and communication are present.

At least I hope they do:)

[Martina]

Yeah, i have been poly in a number of relationships, and as long as one's needs are being met and one feels valued and wanted, very little of that kind of petty jealousy comes up. Once in a while, but if you're grown, you just let it go.

Really, that kind of thinking -- who's more special, she's the favorite -- it's rare IMO. If you aren't more evolved than that going in, poly isn't going to work for you.

[Rope]

I think it's easy to say--don't be jealous or let it go, or obey you're a slave BUT what's the reality? Some people are naturally not jealous and some learn how to tame the green-eyed monster. That said, those that experience pangs of jealousy are not bad people or bad slaves, they often need help figuring it out.

I do think that those who are asked to offer up and give completely over, and are new to poly relationships need real help. Some of that help might be from a vanilla model of poly and some from a D/s model--which stresses obey to a bottom and clarity from a Top. I would say a high degree of vulnerability often rests on the bottoms in D/s relationships and therefore, arguably more insecurity around poly might occur.

I would say asking the Top how the poly might play out or what's the design or model they have in mind is acceptable. Bottoms don't have to blindly obey something that is ultimately going to make a crash and burn relationship.