Butch friends

[Merlin]

I have more femme friends than butch.

I have only one butch friend I refer to as brother as we are quite close.

Do you have more butch friends than femmes ?

Some butches on other forums try to be cock of the hen house and it puts me off befriending them.

[Daywalker]

Well Merlin, in following some of the threads U have started,
it would seem you have been thru some shit.
:|

One of my Bruthas...is a Femme. (love U Snowy One) It's just not as simple as
one or the other at times. One of my oldest and dearest friends is now a
Female; transitioned after the age of 50. We still cut up like we did 25 years
ago. I love Kari (used to be Bob) and I love who she is. Her Gender never
swayed me from being attracted to her as a life long friend.

I get it though, some who Identify as Butch get a little stoopid when
they arrive in the Company of someone they perceive as 'more butch'
than themselves. Or the likes of myself, presenting with Domme
energy...seems to have triggered a few Masculine Identified
folks to get...stoopid and start acting like their Machismo just
got dented. That's a perception that belongs to them, their
reactions belong to us.
:police:

Filtering friends by Butch n Femme?
I can't say that this is something that I do on a conscious level.

I am sitting here trying to scale the numbers,
if one is much more than the other.
:thinking:

It is not, for me.

Looking forward to reading this one.
:coffee:

:daywalker:

[Merlin]

Daywalker,having read butches/transguys/femmes harrowing life stories I assure you compared to those my life has been good.

No disrespect meant to anyone,just a general observation.

Offers hand of friendship.

[Luv]

I have more femme friends than butch friends. I have 3-4 butchs that I call brother and 3 femmes I call sis..love them all !

[Corkey]

I have more femme friends than butch.

I have only one butch friend I refer to as brother as we are quite close.

Do you have more butch friends than femmes ?

Some butches on other forums try to be cock of the hen house and it puts me off befriending them.

I just have friends, and the cock in a hen house stuff you mentioned, is usually a ton of insecurity tied up in a not so tidy package. I tend to ignore that kind of behavior. Because confronting it just reinforces the behavior.

[AtLast]

Maybe I just don't separate friendship between butch, femme, trans, het, etc. I also am not quick to consider someone as a friend- that really is a special designation to me.

I do socialize with a mix of people and I like this. I want to see people not as a gender or identity, but as people that might just be interesting to me and could become a friend. I love having the few close friends I have over for dinner or to watch something airing or taking in a movie, having coffee.

I wish my oldest and dearest friend (that is a non-B-F lesbian) lived closer.

[Ebon]

I have more femme friends than butch.

I have only one butch friend I refer to as brother as we are quite close.

Do you have more butch friends than femmes ?

Some butches on other forums try to be cock of the hen house and it puts me off befriending them.

Yeah that behavior puts me off too. My best friend is femme though. She's also my lady. I have guys that I consider brothers. I don't see much of that cock in the hen house stuff going on here and if it does it gets called out pretty quickly.

[Merlin]

I'd like to share a smoke with some butches and get down to the nitty gritty.

[scootebaby]

i must first say that my words dont always come out right so PLEASE IF something i type offends or puts someone off DO NOT ASSUME the worst--ask for clarification....

I have NEVER had good luck with having butch friends--or femmes for that matter...most butches i have come across have had that need for a "pissing contest" or sneaking behind my back and trying to steal my girl....most femmes usually wanna piss off their partners by being my "friend"...now thats not to say ive had NO friends--i consider Day a friend tho we have only met once as i do Luv...more so than most ppl i see on a regular basis...most of my life i have had "str8" friends....even now i dont really have in real time lesbian friends--one or 2 tops

[DapperButch]

I actually have no in real life butch friends. I really only see feminine or androgynous like lesbians around here. My gf came home the other day shocked and excited that she saw a masculine appearing female in the convenience store. She lived here for 7 years single (after moving here) until we got together saying she just was not able to find a single butch in these parts! (hmmm..maybe she is with me b/c I am the only butch in town?)

Anyway, I do have one femme friend in real life, but that is it. She actually now defines as bisexual and has only dated XY males the last couple of years.

Strangely, I have found myself becoming connected to and hanging out with a bunch of heterosexual, heteronomative women at work. Not narrow in the way they think or the ideas that they are open too, they just have not been exposed to much outside of the "norm". They are also quite a bit older than me, as well.

We were talking about it on friday night when we went out for dinner. I think it is a function of how great of friends they were to me when I was going through the cancer surgery chemo and stuff.

But, I am getting off topic. I would like nothing more than to have a butch friend IRL.

[Merlin]

I find when I have femme friends I end up sleeping with them. I have more hetro friends,maybe subconciously I surround myself with them to play it safe.

[Nina]

Wow!

just...Wow!


I find when I have femme friends I end up sleeping with them. I have more hetro friends,maybe subconciously I surround myself with them to play it safe.

[DapperButch]

I find when I have femme friends I end up sleeping with them. I have more hetro friends,maybe subconciously I surround myself with them to play it safe.

You know, I have never slept with a friend in my entire life. Ever.

If they are a friend, they stay that way. Once they are a friend, I just have an inability to sexualize them (and of course prefer not to). I know the friends with benefit thing and all (and there is nothing wrong with that), but it just has never been my style.

[Julie]

I find when I have femme friends I end up sleeping with them. I have more hetro friends,maybe subconciously I surround myself with them to play it safe.

Perhaps this is why you have few butch friends.
Prior to being on this site - most of my friends were butch or gay men. A few straight female friends and very few femme friends.

I am femme and I can share a bed with my butch friends and know - NOT EVER - would either one of us cross that line. Why would we? We are simply friends.

Perhaps the fact you sexualize relationships. Maybe something to think about.

Julie who is now well balanced in her circle of friends.

[Corkey]

I have friends who are Femme and my wife is Femme and I only sleep with my wife. Not to say that poly folks have to adhere to monogamy, but I don't sleep with my friends in the first place, only my friend, my wife.:blink:

[Merlin]

For me it started off as friendships which progressed.

I have had three serious relationships.

And three liasons,i was a slow starter and missed out on lot's.

[Massive]

I think predominantly my friends tend to be femme, because I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not, they don't mind that I'm a butch who doesn't mind cooking, or cleaning or sewing a button on that's fallen off. Sometimes I feel judged by other butches, because I'm not 'butch enough' or some such shit, but on my local scene, I'm viewed as 'too butch', so most of the time I hang with gay men, because they don't give a monkey's flying arse who or what I am, they like me cos they get my sense of humour and know that I'll defend them to the hilt if they start getting hassled. I think the UK's got a lot to answer to and needs to grow up and start learning about alternative lifestyles, far too many brits are quick to point the finger when they see something they don't recognise or feel comfortable around.
At the end of the day for me, people are people, in real life the majority of my friends are metalheads/goths because they don't give a crap who I'm sleeping with, they just want to go out and have fun. I prefer it that way too, I don't ask to be judged because of how I look, but that's what tends to happen to me around other queers, I'm not one of the sheep following the herd and I'm not afraid of speaking my mind around bigoted people, which tends to alienate me around people who don't get that I'm honest and very blunt.
It would be nice to have more butch friends to be able to sit and chill with, but ... friends are friends, why should it matter how they ID really?

[Julie]

For me it started off as friendships which progressed.

I have had three serious relationships.

And three liasons,i was a slow starter and missed out on lot's.

Clearly this statement is different than what you stated above.

Most relationships begin as friendship, well at least in my world. It is how you develop.

I wish you great luck in finding your butch community. It is important to have comraderie - I know for me, developing relationships with other femmes, is like coming home. It's beautiful and I cherish those friendships.

Julie

[Merlin]

What's making it hard is in the uk we are geographically challenged,and compared to the usa it's a far smaller community.

I don't get to see fellow butch/femme folk due to work and sometimes it feels like a real lonely path to walk.

[Massive]

I don't mean to be nasty or step on any toes here, but I have to say, I think it is very different here in the UK as opposed to the US. Yes we have large gay communities in London, Brighton and a few other major cities, but most of us don't live in those places, most of us here are lucky to have one gay pub to go too, and most places do not have exclusively women only bars, I know I certainly don't. Sometimes there may be a bar which is aimed at gay men who 'tolerate' gay women, but nothing more. I may be missing something by having not travelled to the US, but I see it so often that people miss how someone is from the UK, and seem to miss how in a lot of ways, we're pretty far back in the dark ages in some ways when it comes to being queer. Yes, we have 'marriage' but it's not equal with hetero marriage in any way shape or form, it's a totally different culture in the UK, we're pretty old fashioned too, and nothing like the tv portrays either ...
Anyway, sorry for the derail, just wanted to say this.

[Corkey]

I think predominantly my friends tend to be femme, because I don't have to pretend to be something I'm not, they don't mind that I'm a butch who doesn't mind cooking, or cleaning or sewing a button on that's fallen off. Sometimes I feel judged by other butches, because I'm not 'butch enough' or some such shit, but on my local scene, I'm viewed as 'too butch', so most of the time I hang with gay men, because they don't give a monkey's flying arse who or what I am, they like me cos they get my sense of humour and know that I'll defend them to the hilt if they start getting hassled. I think the UK's got a lot to answer to and needs to grow up and start learning about alternative lifestyles, far too many brits are quick to point the finger when they see something they don't recognise or feel comfortable around.
At the end of the day for me, people are people, in real life the majority of my friends are metalheads/goths because they don't give a crap who I'm sleeping with, they just want to go out and have fun. I prefer it that way too, I don't ask to be judged because of how I look, but that's what tends to happen to me around other queers, I'm not one of the sheep following the herd and I'm not afraid of speaking my mind around bigoted people, which tends to alienate me around people who don't get that I'm honest and very blunt.
It would be nice to have more butch friends to be able to sit and chill with, but ... friends are friends, why should it matter how they ID really?


I friggen LOVE to cook, I like to scrapbook, take photos and a bunch of other stuff. It doesn't define me, and you shouldn't let your love of doing "things" define you either my friend.

[Massive]

I friggen LOVE to cook, I like to scrapbook, take photos and a bunch of other stuff. It doesn't define me, and you shouldn't let your love of doing "things" define you either my friend.

Thanks Corkey! I don't now, I love it all too! But when I was younger I let myself be led around by the nose by my so-called peers, now, I'm happy being me and not pretending any more, like me, love me, or hate me, I'm not changing a damn thing for anything but my own benefit!

[Julie]

Now that is a whole different story. I believe my reaction came from the delivery.
Pissing - Cock penning and henning... Sleeping with femme friends (lol).

I know Dreamer who lives in Australia has the same issues. No real B/F community. Makes perfect sense.

[Merlin]

I don't mean to be nasty or step on any toes here, but I have to say, I think it is very different here in the UK as opposed to the US. Yes we have large gay communities in London, Brighton and a few other major cities, but most of us don't live in those places, most of us here are lucky to have one gay pub to go too, and most places do not have exclusively women only bars, I know I certainly don't. Sometimes there may be a bar which is aimed at gay men who 'tolerate' gay women, but nothing more. I may be missing something by having not travelled to the US, but I see it so often that people miss how someone is from the UK, and seem to miss how in a lot of ways, we're pretty far back in the dark ages in some ways when it comes to being queer. Yes, we have 'marriage' but it's not equal with hetero marriage in any way shape or form, it's a totally different culture in the UK, we're pretty old fashioned too, and nothing like the tv portrays either ...
Anyway, sorry for the derail, just wanted to say this.

Nail on the head.

[Massive]

I'm with Merlin here, I have no gay community around me at all, I think there may be some lesbians within 30 miles of me, but it's too far for me to travel, it's an hour and a half bus journey to get to the nearest scene for me, and then I have to leave by no later than 7pm because otherwise I can't get back home again. It can be seriously isolated here somedays, which is why I personally rely so heavily on the internet and sites like this, because otherwise I'd never get a chance in hell to interact with other people in the B-F dynamic, which, for me, is a way of life now!

[Merlin]

Yes,i know of some lesbians but they don't like butches as we have a tiny wiff of testosterone . .

[Massive]

Yes,i know of some lesbians but they don't like butches as we have a tiny wiff of testosterone . .

I know exactly what you mean! They seem to run away from me before looking past the exterior, I mean, just cos we're butch doesn't mean we're monsters ...

[Merlin]

I know,

It really makes things hard.
Thank the lord for bfp and other sites.

[Daywalker]

i must first say that my words dont always come out right so PLEASE IF something i type offends or puts someone off DO NOT ASSUME the worst--ask for clarification....

I have NEVER had good luck with having butch friends--or femmes for that matter...most butches i have come across have had that need for a "pissing contest" or sneaking behind my back and trying to steal my girl....most femmes usually wanna piss off their partners by being my "friend"...now thats not to say ive had NO friends--i consider Day a friend tho we have only met once as i do Luv...more so than most ppl i see on a regular basis...most of my life i have had "str8" friends....even now i dont really have in real time lesbian friends--one or 2 tops


Oh, by the way ~ here's that photo of
you n Tyler when you visited us in the TN.

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/250107_10150192486618123_530278122_7336418_6283606 _n.jpg

And I consider U a friend also.
:gimmehug:

No Machismo was injured during the Batcave gathering!
Well, lol...'cept maybe Kye, but that's another Topic all together.
:jester:

Demeanor and overall disposition is felt like energy.
Relaxed and content vs Boisterous and belligerent
I haz a Groovy Energy Meter
Some folks set it off.
:koolaid:

Some folks, not so much.
:weedsmoke:

:daywalker:

[scootebaby]

awww look at my lil boy..he is taller than me now and so skinny...im older,uglier and heavier---think Jo and her cooking has something to do with that--the weight that is :) As i told u in rep Day..he still remembers u..thought u were really cool...that was a good day!

[deb_U_taunt]

In my 20s it was andro lesbians.
In my 30s it was mostly butch and trans friends.
Now in my 40s, most of my friends are straight.

[scootebaby]

I have not experienced this weirdness some of you are talking about with friends trying to take "My Butch" or me trying to take "My friends Butch" or anything else for that matter. Sometimes I think there must be some parallel universe where some folks live that they run into these conniving, back stabbing partner thieves.

And also, if a partner can be stolen, were they ever really yours, and why would you want them anyway if they can be lured away that easily?

I never understood this part.


i hear what your saying June and i totally agree...perhaps that why i never experienced a lot of the other things i have seen posted on here--i.e snide remarks,looks,the ugliness of stupid ppl etc---i was too busy attracting people like this in my life to deal with real issues....im so glad i finally grew up :)

[Stud_puppy1991]

I have more femme friends than butch.

I have only one butch friend I refer to as brother as we are quite close.

Do you have more butch friends than femmes ?

Some butches on other forums try to be cock of the hen house and it puts me off befriending them.

I have a mixture of both, but i do have a lot of butch friends. Most of mine are womanizers. and, then some try to wear the pants in the relationship. i have one butch friend that is doing basic in the Navy. other than that, most of the others are femmes, not that i mind.

[Luv]

awww look at my lil boy..he is taller than me now and so skinny...im older,uglier and heavier---think Jo and her cooking has something to do with that--the weight that is :) As i told u in rep Day..he still remembers u..thought u were really cool...that was a good day!

Dang he has gotten big !

[Converse]

Having Butch friendships has always been important to me, and when I lived in England, the US and Australia, always chose locations where “community’ was strong- and often had to sacrifice much to do so.

Never in a Butch/Femme Community have I felt anything but respect shown for relationships, and much thought given to what is deemed acceptable behaviour. I have never experienced the posturing or competitive behaviour that has been mentioned here, from any group of Butches - but instead found it to be “typical” within the andro, lesbian community- where perhaps it has been my own fault for not understanding any of the protocols. Issues of everyone being everyone’s ex, friends becoming lovers becoming friends are all things that confuse me- I’m a simple person, I understand Butch/Femme dynamics- when lines get blurred, no matter how much I squint, I can’t follow the storyline.

I’m old and cranky enough to no longer tolerate lack of protocols, and for me, nothing irritates me more than a lesbian who believes that Butch is a fashion statement, and who after putting on the “butch look” proceeds to behave like an adolescent boy with his first set of car keys. Perhaps these are the “cocks” that are being discussed, I don’t know, but what I do know is that without my Butch friendships my life would have been very different.

[DapperButch]

Having Butch friendships has always been important to me, and when I lived in England, the US and Australia, always chose locations where “community’ was strong- and often had to sacrifice much to do so.

Never in a Butch/Femme Community have I felt anything but respect shown for relationships, and much thought given to what is deemed acceptable behaviour. I have never experienced the posturing or competitive behaviour that has been mentioned here, from any group of Butches - but instead found it to be “typical” within the andro, lesbian community- where perhaps it has been my own fault for not understanding any of the protocols. Issues of everyone being everyone’s ex, friends becoming lovers becoming friends are all things that confuse me- I’m a simple person, I understand Butch/Femme dynamics- when lines get blurred, no matter how much I squint, I can’t follow the storyline.

I’m old and cranky enough to no longer tolerate lack of protocols, and for me, nothing irritates me more than a lesbian who believes that Butch is a fashion statement, and who after putting on the “butch look” proceeds to behave like an adolescent boy with his first set of car keys. Perhaps these are the “cocks” that are being discussed, I don’t know, but what I do know is that without my Butch friendships my life would have been very different.

Yep. "Butch code" is certainly not a part of the non-butch/femme lesbian community.

[cuddlyfemme]

I find when I have femme friends I end up sleeping with them. I have more hetro friends,maybe subconciously I surround myself with them to play it safe.

I don't even know what to say to this (strange for me) except for what has already been said....Wow!!! My best friend is a butch and we could share a bed with nothing happening except sleep

[apretty]

Some butches on other forums try to be cock of the hen house and it puts me off befriending them.

I know what you mean--I think we all know you're speaking of EZ: He is quite the cock of the hen house.

*I love to insert 'cock' as often as possible and I found this post opportune.

[Merlin]

^ not sure I know what you mean ? Lol ..

[princessbelle]

Over the years, i've always had way more butch friends than femme ones.

However in the past 6 months or so, I have been achieving something i wanted for a long time, which was some real close femme relationships.

Friends are good to have no matter how they ID. A true friend is someone that don't just walk into your life needing or wanting and then disappear on you. Even if you sleep with them, IMO. They stay, no matter what....butch or femme, male or female, no matter what the ID....a true friend is a magical gift that i value and respect and know that i'm damn lucky to have these people in my life.

Rock on. :hangloose:

[Thinker]

Having Butch friendships has always been important to me, and when I lived in England, the US and Australia, always chose locations where “community’ was strong- and often had to sacrifice much to do so.

Never in a Butch/Femme Community have I felt anything but respect shown for relationships, and much thought given to what is deemed acceptable behaviour. I have never experienced the posturing or competitive behaviour that has been mentioned here, from any group of Butches - but instead found it to be “typical” within the andro, lesbian community- where perhaps it has been my own fault for not understanding any of the protocols. Issues of everyone being everyone’s ex, friends becoming lovers becoming friends are all things that confuse me- I’m a simple person, I understand Butch/Femme dynamics- when lines get blurred, no matter how much I squint, I can’t follow the storyline.

I’m old and cranky enough to no longer tolerate lack of protocols, and for me, nothing irritates me more than a lesbian who believes that Butch is a fashion statement, and who after putting on the “butch look” proceeds to behave like an adolescent boy with his first set of car keys. Perhaps these are the “cocks” that are being discussed, I don’t know, but what I do know is that without my Butch friendships my life would have been very different.

Hi Converse...

I have a comment about the part of your post that I bolded in red.

First off, I think it is awesome and a real testament to this community that your experiences are what they are with your butch and femme sisters and brothers!

When you reference the protocols of the "andro, lesbian community", it almost sounds as if you are making a sweeping generalization about the members of that community.

The vast majority of our members here are also members of the lesbian community and take offense to the stereotypes you mentioned (everyone is everyone's ex; go from friends to lovers to friends) as well as many others.

If you wouldn't mind elaborating on that.....if you think it was misinterpreted.....that would be helpful. If you feel like maybe you did stereotype, just please keep in mind that it is not in the best interest of our community to do that.

I'm writing as a moderator (we received a question about your post from another member), but this isn't intended to be any sort of reprimand. I just want to make sure you have the opportunity to clear the air if you feel what you wrote was misunderstood.

Respectfully,
Thinker (moderator)

[apretty]

My best friend is a butch and we could share a bed with nothing happening except sleep

For whatever reason, Ez's not enthusiastic about me sleeping in bed with my butch-b-f-f!

his response, 'it's not happening.'

me: i never get nothing nice.

(silence)

me: what if it were a futon?

[Converse]

Hi Converse...

I have a comment about the part of your post that I bolded in red.

First off, I think it is awesome and a real testament to this community that your experiences are what they are with your butch and femme sisters and brothers!

When you reference the protocols of the "andro, lesbian community", it almost sounds as if you are making a sweeping generalization about the members of that community.

The vast majority of our members here are also members of the lesbian community and take offense to the stereotypes you mentioned (everyone is everyone's ex; go from friends to lovers to friends) as well as many others.

If you wouldn't mind elaborating on that.....if you think it was misinterpreted.....that would be helpful. If you feel like maybe you did stereotype, just please keep in mind that it is not in the best interest of our community to do that.

I'm writing as a moderator (we received a question about your post from another member), but this isn't intended to be any sort of reprimand. I just want to make sure you have the opportunity to clear the air if you feel what you wrote was misunderstood.

Respectfully,
Thinker (moderator)
Interesting- I had hoped when I added quotation marks to the word typical, that it nullified any perception that I might be making a generalisation. The post was very much about my own experiences in communities that were not familiar with Butch/Femme dynamics, and I took some responsibility in having that experience as it perhaps being a result of my own lack of understanding of what I was seeing around me.

I would hope that relaying my experience would no more be taken as “how it is”, than those who have experienced most Butches as participants in “pissing contests”- I understood those latter comments to be legitimate personal experiences and so in no way felt any offense, however to “The vast majority of our members here [who] are also members of the lesbian community” who do not see it that way, I offer my apologies