OFOS Butches & Femmes

[Jet]

A place for old fashioned and old school cool folks to congregate. Thread is now open to just hang out or to talk about what it means to you to be OFOS.

[Leigh]

This looks like its gonna be a great thread Jet, I will definately be back :thumbsup:

[Jet]

Hi Braedon, surely we can't be the only ones who are OFOS....
Where are the femmes?
__________________________________________________

YouTube- The Temptations - My Girl (Movie version)

[Darth Denkay]

Wicket here - thanks for starting the thread!

[Kimbo]

Not sure if I am one of the cool peeps but I'm here hanging out. Thanks for the thread Jet.

[Jet]

Not sure if I am one of the cool peeps but I'm here hanging out. Thanks for the thread Jet.

You're cool and you're welcome

[Jet]

Wicket here - thanks for starting the thread!

Hey welcome! I think we need to keep this bumped up since it's so new.

[hpychick]

First femme to stop by! Hey y'all!

[Jet]

First femme to stop by! Hey y'all!

Welcome, thanks for stopping by. Hope to see you around here more often.

[HumV4me]

~~Bumpity bump bump~~

**waves to all old school folks**

[Jet]

SO EVERYONE


I'm afraid to ask this question,

but ...

what makes you old school?

Please God, lets not debate this or turn this into a long, cold dissertation
Let the answers just be from our hearts.

[HumV4me]

Can I cheat... I'm sure there's a lil black book of old school rules and regulations that are subject to interpretation!

I'm old school cause I don't (((have not ever))) dated or been with one of my femme sisters ex's.

:laundryday::walking-poodle:

[Jet]

hey if there's OS rules in your little black book that's great. maybe we should all take a look in that book.

[Darth Denkay]

I call myself old school because I honor and respect the butches and femmes who paved the way for us to be like we are. I value our history. I value chivalry, being a gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson). Manners, respect, loyalty - these are some of the things I strive to exude as a partner. I need to run so will probably add more later, but this is at least a start.

-Wicket

[Jet]

Bump for OFOS :beatnik: who may not have seen this thread.

[Scarlet Harlot]

*Peeks round the door* Hello :bouquet:

English OFOS femme princess here.

Why am I old school???? I'm not entirely sure but new school doesn't feel right to me

[Jet]

I'm bumping this up; for sure there has to be OS butches and femmes.

[Surayna]

Peeking my head in the door.

[Jet]

Years ago, I did a 2-man drag show based on the 1950s.
My best friend and I converted the dance floor at a gay bar to
a basketball court and a gym as a fictional
Eisenhower High School in 1956.

We made a lot of money that night impersonating singers of the 1950s.
We borrowed a white baby grand piano from the local playhouse,
guitars and sax's.

This is one of the songs I did solo
from Sha Na Na:

____________________________________________

YouTube- Sha Na Na/Johnny Contardo - Those Magic Changes

[HeartBreak Kid]

Oh how I love and adore my OFOS Butches...without u all I am only half my potential. *Sigh*
I wish there was a OFOS Bootcamp for some of theese "new school" butches...the smoothness charm and energy is just all wrong..(at least for me).....anyway Thanks Jet for the thread :gimmehug:

[Linus]

I call myself old school because I honor and respect the butches and femmes who paved the way for us to be like we are. I value our history. I value chivalry, being a gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson). Manners, respect, loyalty - these are some of the things I strive to exude as a partner. I need to run so will probably add more later, but this is at least a start.

-Wicket

Couldn't have said it better. As a trans brother of mine put it -- I am a man of integrity.

[Rogue]

Just like WickedWarrick said.. I, too, respect those who have paved the way for us, I respect and value not only our history, but our way of life, our way of interacting, the dynamics we share, and the love and respect amongst us.
With that said..
I call myself old fashioned/old school because that is the dynamics of our love, our relationship, and our way of life.. hell you could say that I'm a modern day June Cleaver with a twist! ;)

Rogue

[Jet]

I was thinking how much OFOS comes off as a train of thinking or a set of rules. I don't know if that applies to everyone who considers themselves OFOS. I know it doesn't for me. Although I'm self-described as OFOS. Anyway, I hope this thread will grow with personal stories and experiences or just to bond online with like-minded folks.,

[LieslKate]

*holds up a fresh off the press copy of "The OFOS Rules" *

[LieslKate]

This NEEDS bumping... :)

:happyjump:

[Canela]

I have a question--

In your opinion, do Old Fashioned/Old School and Stone go hand in hand?

Just wondering what interpretations there might be...







:artist:

[OS Butch]

Oh how I love and adore my OFOS Butches...without u all I am only half my potential. *Sigh*
I wish there was a OFOS Bootcamp for some of theese "new school" butches...the smoothness charm and energy is just all wrong..(at least for me).....anyway Thanks Jet for the thread :gimmehug:

I have no idea what “new school” is all about. Someone care to enlighten me on their interpretation?

I have a question--

In your opinion, do Old Fashioned/Old School and Stone go hand in hand?

Just wondering what interpretations there might be...

My short answer: No, they do not.

Opinion….Interpretations…My disclaimer…What you are about to read is totally my opinion and has nothing to do with how anyone else may feel about OFOS. It’s all my opinion and how I interact with the world, not just the realm of the Butch-Femme Dynamic.

What is OFOS? Maybe it would be easier to say what it is not. I believe for some the idea of OFOS is the Ward and June Clever life. It is that idea has caused a rejection of OFOS for some people…That it is outdated, therefore irrelevant today.

OFOS is not keeping the little woman is the kitchen so dinner is on the table when the Butch comes home from a long day at work.

OFOS is not a Butch taking care of everything because the Femme is unable.

OFOS is not just opening the door for Femmes.

OFOS is not about who is on top or bottom.

In my opinion OFOS is all about love, respect, honor and loyalty. None of which should be exclusively OFOS. All of these things should be part of one’s living code of ethics.

For me, OFOS is a way of life. I open a door for a Femme or even a Butch to honor and respect that person, not because I am Butch and that is what I am suppose to do. An OFOS Femme appreciates these gestures because she knows it is done out of love, honor and respect, not because she cannot do it herself.

I walk on the street side with my hand on the small of her back or holding her elbow because I care, honor and respect her. She allows me to do so because she knows it is how I honor her.

I walk in front of her, grasping her hands behind me as we wander through a crowded room. This keeps her from getting bumped and she allows me to do so because she respects that this is how I show my caring and respect for her.

For the life of me, I don’t understand why simply courtesy has dropped to the wayside and are called old fashioned. For me, it is anything but old fashioned. It is the way I choose to move through this world. Why do I feel so alone?


OSB

[Jet]

Glad this is bumped up. I forgot this thread was here. Sayin hey...from OSOF-er

[OS Butch]

Glad this is bumped up. I forgot this thread was here. Sayin hey...from OSOF-er

Hi. OFOS does often get forgotten. It is a shame.

[Miss_Tia]

I cant imagine dating anyone who wasnt OFOS. I think the older I get, the more I appreciate the basics: someone who is courteous, respectful, entertaining, tastefully charming, genuinely warm, offers a woman quiet adoration without suffocation, and most of all can classically slow dance without stepping on the dance floor, to my music that isnt heard on the jukebox by anyone but him...

[OS Butch]

I cant imagine dating anyone who wasnt OFOS. I think the older I get, the more I appreciate the basics: someone who is courteous, respectful, entertaining, tastefully charming, genuinely warm, offers a woman quiet adoration without suffocation, and most of all can classically slow dance without stepping on the dance floor, to my music that isnt heard on the jukebox by anyone but him...

That is exactly the dance of an OFOS couple. Thank you for your point of view.

OSB

[OS Butch]

Well, now...I am new to this site, but have been on line in the B-F community for over 5 years. I think as I have grown older, I have gotten more vocal...I wonder if it it because I really don't care what people think of me, I am just me and that is that.

With that being said, here are the thought running through this brain of mine.....

Wow, this thread was opened in November and has only had 30 posts and only 350 views......

Which then leads to....

I guess I really am a dinosaur and I am all alone...

or

People see OFOS and assume you have to be old as dirt to be OFOS and are not interested.....

or even

It's that folks have had a run in with the person that opened the thread and won't go here because of that. I don't know that and I don't know Ol Jet, just saying what is going through my head.


Having values of loyalty, honor and trust are not Old Fashioned, Old School and should never go out of style.

OSB

[OS Butch]

It's official, I am a Wooly Mammoth. Sad to see anything go extinct, especially when all it takes is a bit of care and nurturing.

OSB

[Mrs. Strutt]

Good morning to the other OS folks :)

[Greyson]

Good morning to the other OS folks :)


Good morning bact at you Mrs. Strutt. Nice to see yet another familiar face here. The Strutt family is back in da house.

[Jet]

Jet's .02

This is my two cents which I pulled out of a pair of
penny loafers that belonged my girlfriend, Susie Q,
who I made out with at the drive-in in my pickup.

Being old school isn't a philosophy. It is not complicated
deserving of heated debate or discourse or dissertation
It is not something politically correct to the point of
hatred. It is uncomplicated and unpretentious and
worn like distressed leather.

Old school is romantic and passionate.

I believe it is something innate, a way of life
that has everything to do with they way we are built; what we prefer
our tastes and likenesses.

It is not acquired. It is natural.
Because we have a natural respect and likenesses and affinities
for things that are traditional and, well...old fashioned.

Old school is pure heart.

We are deeply romantic and passionate for traditional loves and roles.
Roles are not a bad thing.
They are not some facade on one day and off another or for the moment.

For me, roles are a way of life.
They are about dancing with your wife. And going to war
if ever called because it's the right thing to do.
And loving children. And sunsets and working
for a living and loving hard and long at a summer place
and loving so deeply that your core being is
fully satisfied as the very woman or man that you are.

Old school comes naturally.

At times, it feels manly and responsible and romantic and passionate
and charged with devotion, care and values that existed in another time.
And all of these things are clean and sweet like a high notes.

But they vary as we vary.
"To each his own brother," as an old schooler would say.

Old school is heart's desire that runs as deep as the ocean.
Maybe being swept off your feet, and pleasing a man with a beautiful
femininity of yours and qualities that a real-in-soul guy lives for...
because that is how he is made. Just as much as your willingness to
be cared for and loved in a way that is nurturing, and that is sexy and passionate to you.
Respected and honored in mind and body.
It's an old value that is ours.

Did you ever catch fireflies? Did you ever just know,
with a look or a touch, that it was for life?
That's old school.

It is natural and simple and it is just us.

And for the record?

This is what was playing at the drive-in that night
when I fell in love and I was loved because

I am truly old school...

YouTube- A Summer Place(1959)/피서지�서 �긴�

Did you ever catch fireflies?

[Jet]

My kind of old school.
Actually, I mimed this rendition in a 1950s
drag show years ago, with my buddy, D.J. who is now FTM.
He played Johnny Angel and I played White Buck Ford.
The girlies swooned. heh, heh.

YouTube- tears on my pillow -sha na na-

[Princess4u]

Jet's .02

This is my two cents which I pulled out of a pair of
penny loafers that belonged my girlfriend, Susie Q,
who I made out with at the drive-in in my pickup.

Being old school isn't a philosophy. It is not complicated
deserving of heated debate or discourse or dissertation
It is not something politically correct to the point of
hatred. It is uncomplicated and unpretentious and
worn like distressed leather.

Old school is romantic and passionate.

I believe it is something innate, a way of life
that has everything to do with they way we are built; what we prefer
our tastes and likenesses.

It is not acquired. It is natural.
Because we have a natural respect and likenesses and affinities
for things that are traditional and, well...old fashioned.

Old school is pure heart.

We are deeply romantic and passionate for traditional loves and roles.
Roles are not a bad thing.
They are not some facade on one day and off another or for the moment.

For me, roles are a way of life.
They are about dancing with your wife. And going to war
if ever called because it's the right thing to do.
And loving children. And sunsets and working
for a living and loving hard and long at a summer place
and loving so deeply that your core being is
fully satisfied as the very woman or man that you are.

Old school comes naturally.

At times, it feels manly and responsible and romantic and passionate
and charged with devotion, care and values that existed in another time.
And all of these things are clean and sweet like a high notes.

But they vary as we vary.
"To each his own brother," as an old schooler would say.

Old school is heart's desire that runs as deep as the ocean.
Maybe being swept off your feet, and pleasing a man with a beautiful
femininity of yours and qualities that a real-in-soul guy lives for...
because that is how he is made. Just as much as your willingness to
be cared for and loved in a way that is nurturing, and that is sexy and passionate to you.
Respected and honored in mind and body.
It's an old value that is ours.

Did you ever catch fireflies? Did you ever just know,
with a look or a touch, that it was for life?
That's old school.

It is natural and simple and it is just us.

And for the record?

This is what was playing at the drive-in that night
when I fell in love and I was loved because

I am truly old school...

YouTube- A Summer Place(1959)/피서지�서 �긴� (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihljspJpzG4)

Did you ever catch fireflies?

That is very beautiful my friend...if you arent careful you will have a following of women swooning for your affection. Not that thats a bad thing my dear.....LOL

[Jet]

That is very beautiful my friend...if you arent careful you will have a following of women swooning for your affection. Not that thats a bad thing my dear.....LOL

Thank you. I'm not sure about the following, but it is how i feel.

[Leigh]

Glad to see this thread bumped up, as it should be :)

[Miss_Tia]

my daughter, who is now 26 and almost engaged, took her cues from her momma about dating...when she started dating, she developed a criteria check list that they had to pass before she would accept a date, and a list for after the first date was over. She had seen me date OFOS butches throughout her childhood and expected her hetero bio men to treat her as well as my butches treated me...

[Mrs. Strutt]

Good morning bact at you Mrs. Strutt. Nice to see yet another familiar face here. The Strutt family is back in da house.
Thank you, Greyson :flowers: Mrs. Strutt, for one, is glad to be back in da house...I have missed being among my own kind for so long.

[Gemme]

SO EVERYONE


I'm afraid to ask this question,

but ...

what makes you old school?

Please God, lets not debate this or turn this into a long, cold dissertation
Let the answers just be from our hearts.

I don't know if I'm fully in the realm of Old School yet, but I know that I have OS tendencies and that I prefer those who exhibit OS behaviors.

I agree with Wicket's post below as to what that means to me.

I call myself old school because I honor and respect the butches and femmes who paved the way for us to be like we are. I value our history. I value chivalry, being a gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson). Manners, respect, loyalty - these are some of the things I strive to exude as a partner. I need to run so will probably add more later, but this is at least a start.

-Wicket

Lovely!

I have a question--

In your opinion, do Old Fashioned/Old School and Stone go hand in hand?

Just wondering what interpretations there might be...

For me, they definitely accentuate one another, but don't neceessarily mean that they are permanently linked.







:artist:

[sylvie]

*waves*
:newbie:
erm, well in *this* thread anyway!
so just wanted to say hello, and hope you all have a wonderful day tomorrow!

[Miss_Tia]

why am I old school old fashioned? In MY OPINION and ONLY FOR ME maybe because I am not what I consider new school, new day of age, new ways...

I dont swear alot

I am not disrespectful to myself nor to others....

I dont hang my "tits" out my blouse...in fact they are the girls, not tits...

I like knowing AND understanding the words of songs that are sung not screamed

I cross my legs not uncross them in order to get the attention of that butch over there

smiling at a butch means hello, not wanna fuck?

dancing together means dancing not sex

dating means dating not sex

sex means making love not fucking

fucking comes when love is established and secured

well..there is more but this will start...

[Mrs. Strutt]

Being "old school" is having a reverence for respect, integrity and honor--the foundation of what forms any old school soul.

It's not something you are just because it's the fashion of the day. It's not a snazzy garment you pull out for special occasions.

Being old school is like that soft, many times-washed old cotton t-shirt that fits you like a glove--so comfortable, you don't even know you have it on.

I am proud to be an old school femme.

[Gemme]

Being "old school" is having a reverence for respect, integrity and honor--the foundation of what forms any old school soul.

It's not something you are just because it's the fashion of the day. It's not a snazzy garment you pull out for special occasions.

Being old school is like that soft, many times-washed old cotton t-shirt that fits you like a glove--so comfortable, you don't even know you have it on.

I am proud to be an old school femme.

I really relate to this post.

[Jet]

The night was warm with just a hint of north breeze now and then.
The dance had ended at midnight and most sailors and soldiers had found their way to hotels and bunks on this three-day liberty.

I met her at the USO canteen, with its crowd of soldiers and working girls who had volunteered their evenings and their company of doughnuts and hot coffee for as long as they would last. Each girl, with her lined hosiery and upsweep, and 2-inch hemline, which had been cut short for the wool needed ocean's away, made herself available to soldiers to boost their morale and their hopes of returning home.

The canteen had grown hot on this night with loud swing music and fast jitterbugs and thoughts of war long forgotton under lilting trumpets and hot saxes and fast drums. It was swing and a time when all of America danced to a different tune.

Midnight struck some time ago and she invited me to her apartment to shave and to bunk on her sofa. It was all on the up and up—a sailor and a single girl both fighting for the same thing, in the name of the war effort, which we thought was the right thing. She was beautiful. I didn't want to touch her for fear of losing her, and yet I wanted to touch her all through the night.

She offered me Johnny Walker Red and a light for filterless smokes and a place to rest on her sofa. I saw that there were things out of line; a door hinge needed fixing, paint had chipped on the kitchen wall, things needed patching and straightening. And I wanted to stay and take care of everything for her, but it wasn't to be.

I could have pursued her and promised her a million things that a million guys would have offered, but I liked her. I was beholden to her generosity and her care that I may or may not ever come back. That alone, meant everything.

The Johnny Walker Red loosened my memories of all that I had loved and all that I could lose in a single detonated charge somewhere in the Pacific. I asked her to dance closer to me, and to a beautiful trumpet that made me forget.

There wasn't time for explanations, or excuses or promises. What mattered in this moment was the feel of her and possibly the last time I would ever see her.

The lights dimmed, the trumpet played and we danced to the unknown on a summer night in 1942...

OkTA7fOvCJY

[Jet]

Flying in and out to say hello. have a good night.

[Lillie]

:confused:Is there any other kind?:confused:

I guess I have been lucky in finding any butch I dated being ofos. I love being treated like a lady. I live in an area where the next town over is 65+ and occasionally we shop there..I always get a giggle when I hear the older woman say to her husband "Oh look at that nice young man opening her car door" and than she turns around and they turn red realizing she is in fact a she!...I respect any woman ofos or not who treats another with respect and manners AND trust me it does not go un noticed when its genuine ..and completely NOTICED when its not!:blink::

lol
Lillie

[Kätzchen]

I really like a lot of the sentiment that has been expressed here by Jet and by Tiffany (Mrs. Strutt) and by Softness.

Several descriptions of what OFOS are known to be like, such as: Jet conveying that being OFOS comes from a place of sharing an affinity for romance and passion - something that's innate between the butch and a femme who share and enjoy the dynamic of their relationship dance. I like how Tiffany likened it to "feeling like a soft, many times washed, old cotton t-shirt that fits like a glove" - I like how she decribed that feeling between those who feel they are of the OFOS variety. Also, I enjoyed reading ideas that Softness presented: for example, she was saying that "dating means dating, not sex" and "smiling at a butch means hello" or even "dancing means dancing" together and not something else!

I feel that I am rather old fashioned and of an older, mature, school of thought in that I - for those of you who have met me and spoken with me in person - am pretty quiet by nature and not as 'out loud and proud' as some might think. Even in my past professional career as a practicing, licensed hairdresser (Tiffany might agree with me on this), we serve our clinetele with a gracious spirit and I guess this is what I am trying to say about me - is that there's a spirit of grace that permeates my personality and the way I carry myself. At least I have been told this by people who know me and interact with me on a daily basis.

I have another story (an example) of what I'm like in a different context/situation: My advisor (and Program Director) was gone to Israel on a special trip with colleagues in the department and I needed special assistance. So, I went to our department chairperson - I've had them for several courses - and during our hour long visit to help me resolve a conflict, he said to me that 'I was such a sweetheart of a person' because of how I was trying to make sense of my situation and be considerate of the other person, as well as myself. It felt good to hear him say that to me because sometimes that is not how people read me... if that makes any sense at all.

For me (a Femme perspective), OFOS orientation is connected to -
timing issues: I wait to be invited to dance
romantic notions: a melding of fidelity and trust
relationship ideals: a passionate regard for the traditional

to me, it's an intricate dance of communication skills between two people who share similar values and beliefs and it's not too easy, this dance that we do. That said, it would seem that what I have been able to itemize above might seem to be what most people strive to attain in ordinary ways, but there's something special that occurs between those of us who identify with what OFOS means to those of us who feel we exude these qualities. It seems so hard to decribe in written text - it seems elusive, yet I know and recognise the signs by which we give to one another and how it feels as we live it in our daily lives. Like Jet was saying in an earlier post - being OFOS "is uncomplicated, unpretentious and worn like distressed leather."

To me, that feels so right and describes how I feel about what OFOS is about.
It's late, so if my post seems to not make too much sense, just know that I'm headed to dreamland soon... My pillows are finally calling me!

Good night and sweet dreams to all of you!

[Jet]

Honey Touch Me With My Clothes On

fpG2ArGLRWw

[Kätzchen]

Jet???

You were here!!!! AND, you posted about Gilda Radner!

Is she amazing or what???

I remember staying up late watching Saturday Night Live and she was my favorite actress-performer!!!! Oh my stars, she was sOoOoOOOoo funny!

She was also an inspiration to me and her husband, Gene Wilder, was such a wonderful husband to her -- even during the greatest battle she ever faced -- and he was so good to her! He is a Saint, in my books!!!! Do you feel that way about Gene Wilder too???

That video you left here is very special - You know at the end of the video where there's a quote left by Gilda???

Life is about not knowing, having to change, taking the moment and making the best of it, without knowing what's going to happen next. Delicious ambiguity.

It's the "ambiguity" piece that has become so important to me, during this past year of studies: One of my favorite professors (in our department), taught me so much this past year on that very thing - ambiguity - and being willing to accept ambiguity because it is an opportunity to explore and discover moments that are shrouded in ambiguity and to not be afraid of the unknown. And to me, this is the priceless part about being in the moment and not knowing what comes next or what change we might need to accept or even use our imagination to creatively find new ways to experience what life offers as we taste ambiguity in our lives! Truly, Gilda's humor and how she faced her fears and battles in life is a shining example and inspiration to us all! This is such a gift to remember Gilda tonight - this helps me sooo much!!!!

Thanks so much Jet for thinking to post about Gilda Radner tonight!

:moonstars:

[Kätzchen]

I thought I'd leave a video here this morning before I head out for the day!

I don't know about any of you, but I loved the (TV series) The Dick Van Dyke Show years ago! I always thought of it as a sit-com of an OFOS young couple and their friends and family life!

*enjoy*

eIWJTiRW2aE&feature=related

:blueheels:

[Kätzchen]

In my sleeping this afternoon, I was dreamily contemplating all the qualities and characteristics about me that identify me as an Old Fashioned Old Skool Femme....

I favor songs that are soulful, sweet and charming - this seems to reflect my type of temperment. Also, I tend to prefer pet nicknames (for me) like: Darling, Sweetheart, Your Majesty (playfully, of course), and Sugar... among other creative references and my circle of friends tends to be rather small (I only have so much energy)! But, that's about as far as I got this afternoon, while I was thinking about things that are typical of me...

I kind of slept the day away tending to my own needs, so I guess I'll be up all night *silly me* !!!

[Jet]

Dance #16: Heart and Soul

If I sat next to you would you think I cared?
If I asked you to slow dance, would you?

Would you sway and twirl
heart to heart, soul to soul?

Would you run through hayfields
and laugh away the years with me?

Would you kiss me in the moonlight?
Would you teach me how?

Would you join me in a life long duet?

I wonder.

Would you love me heart and soul?

—The Dancer of Atlanta


ckOh6N8_9Sg

[Toughy]

I don't identify with being 'old fashioned' at all.

I am old school. Integrity, manners, charm, do the right thing, protect only when asked, loyalty, compassion, etc.

I love it when a femme comes to me and asks for a dance. Femmes should be strong, powerful, in control, knows what she wants and will work/ask for it.

I love getting flowers. I love giving flowers.

I want to see her out in her glory.....tits showing, slit up the side of her leg skirt, shoes that make me wet (I'm a shoe whore, what can I say), looking/acting like sex walking....ok.....mmmm.......I lost my train of thought....oh yeah.....that is an OS femme in my book...one who owns her body and her sexuality and is not afraid to show the world....and fuck em if they don't like it.

I am always puzzled by the linking of 'old fashioned' with 'old school'. They are two different things in my mind. They are not linked together for me. IF they were, then I would be kicking a butch's ass who looked at my date, making butches ask me (not her) if they can dance with her...and a whole lot of other old fashioned ways of treating women.

I came out in what most folks think of as OFOS times...early 70's.....there is a whole bunch of that old school stuff that I hate and most of it is centered in the old fashioned way in which women were treated.

So for me........I am truly old school. But I truly dislike and am not old fashioned.

[Ebon]

I respect my elders
I prefer a woman's soul over looks
I like to be a gentleman to a lady that allows me to
I love old school music 50's 60's 70's
I have to connect with someone on a deep level before I make love to them
I got my ass whipped as a kid. lol
I try to be considerate, if I'm not I don't realize it
I prefer women with old souls
I don't like BS from anyone
I try to learn my lessons from the Universe so I don't have to keep going through the same shit
I see life as life, some things can be changed some cannot either way it goes I enjoy myself and try not to wallow too long
I don't let silly shit affect me
I get over things pretty quickly

I'm sure there is a more but this is a start

OB

[Jet]

Resurrecting this thread.

[sylvie]

hello OS'ers! ♥

i love reading through this thread ..
i'm most definitely an old soul - i have many old school values..
i love to be treated like a lady, having the door opened for me , chair pulled out for me, etc... it helps make me feel so cared for, adored.. safe, taken care of.. someone who will hold my hand to keep me close, and i am very traditional in ways of dating/romance..

glad to see this thread resurrected.. ♥
have a wonderful day all!

[cuddlyfemme]

Bringing back this thread!

[Jet]

This is where it rings....fuck everything else

W3He_gyNG6A

[Leigh]

Its good to see this thread again :)

[Nightshade]

I don't know how I missed this thread before! In fact, is there another one like it with zero responses? I thought I saw that.

Regardless, I wish I weren't reading this on my phone while at work! I want to go through and savor the entire thread! Sigh.

I hope it stays active, and I'll try to do my part.

Nightshade

[Nightshade]

I want to see her out in her glory.....tits showing, slit up the side of her leg skirt, shoes that make me wet (I'm a shoe whore, what can I say), looking/acting like sex walking....ok.....mmmm.......I lost my train of thought....oh yeah.....that is an OS femme in my book...one who owns her body and her sexuality and is not afraid to show the world....and fuck em if they don't like it.

I am always puzzled by the linking of 'old fashioned' with 'old school'. They are two different things in my mind. They are not linked together for me. IF they were, then I would be kicking a butch's ass who looked at my date, making butches ask me (not her) if they can dance with her...and a whole lot of other old fashioned ways of treating women.

I came out in what most folks think of as OFOS times...early 70's.....there is a whole bunch of that old school stuff that I hate and most of it is centered in the old fashioned way in which women were treated.

So for me........I am truly old school. But I truly dislike and am not old fashioned.

Actually, if old fashioned = asexual, victorian, patriarchal oppression then I'm right there with you! But I think perhaps that was mostly a socially acceptable facade. The 'passing' front that everyone presented but most didn't live.

Not having lived through it though, it's complete speculation on my part. I can only imagine though that that embodiment of OF as 'prudishness' had to have been more prevalent in heterosexual lives than in the Butch/femme community where waiting for marriage and having sex to procreate simply wasn't a part of the equation.

And while us femmes have always gotten positive (if unwanted) feedback about our desirability, I cling strongly to the ideal that my foremothers carried within their very core the knowledge that it was up to them to show the butches of the world that they too were sexual forces to be reckoned with. That they were wanted. Needed. Craved. Utterly desired beyond all reason. It was in intricate part of the dance.

I refuse to believe that respect and/or sexual hunger was lacking for either party 'back in the day.'

[Converse]

Many relate OFOS as being about the 1950’s B-F communities, who were faced with hostility from a very conservative mainstream society, lending itself to a time of much violence – while others draw on the periods prior to that when Butch identity concerned itself with courtesy, chivalry and strength without violence. One context is about oppression, while the other is about codes of behaviour.

We can take almost anything out of context, assigning a meaning that helps to legitimise our argument, but what I think matters is intent.

Do I stay cold so that she doesn’t when I offer her my coat, open and hold the door for her, stand when she does, light her cigarette, curtail my language and expect others to do the same when they are around her, compliment, carry what’s heavy… because I think she isn’t capable, believe that she is so fragile that her sensibilities would never recover from a personal affront, because I believe I am superior? Or do I do it to acknowledge her importance, to place myself second in her presence- Is my intention to try to make her way a little more comfortable in the world or is it to oppress?

For good or for bad, in mainstream society a Butch is rarely inconspicuous, and a Femme is noticed but rarely seen. As a Butch I will honour her, and do what I can to remove the cloak of invisibility, to allow her to be seen as the woman who is deserving of respect and admiration, to be seen as a Femme.

My observations of the world are that the B-F community is becoming one of the last bastions where chivalry still remains. For me, I am happy to be considered old fashioned if the alternative is, as I see around me, a solo dance with everyone on the floor vying for the spotlight.

[AnaLee]

Old school femme here, dropping in to say hello. It's late - I'll be back soon to chat with you fabulous OS folks.
Sweet Thoughts,
Ana

[socialjustice_fsu]

Many relate OFOS as being about the 1950’s B-F communities, who were faced with hostility from a very conservative mainstream society, lending itself to a time of much violence – while others draw on the periods prior to that when Butch identity concerned itself with courtesy, chivalry and strength without violence. One context is about oppression, while the other is about codes of behaviour.

We can take almost anything out of context, assigning a meaning that helps to legitimise our argument, but what I think matters is intent.

Do I stay cold so that she doesn’t when I offer her my coat, open and hold the door for her, stand when she does, light her cigarette, curtail my language and expect others to do the same when they are around her, compliment, carry what’s heavy… because I think she isn’t capable, believe that she is so fragile that her sensibilities would never recover from a personal affront, because I believe I am superior? Or do I do it to acknowledge her importance, to place myself second in her presence- Is my intention to try to make her way a little more comfortable in the world or is it to oppress?

For good or for bad, in mainstream society a Butch is rarely inconspicuous, and a Femme is noticed but rarely seen. As a Butch I will honour her, and do what I can to remove the cloak of invisibility, to allow her to be seen as the woman who is deserving of respect and admiration, to be seen as a Femme.

My observations of the world are that the B-F community is becoming one of the last bastions where chivalry still remains. For me, I am happy to be considered old fashioned if the alternative is, as I see around me, a solo dance with everyone on the floor vying for the spotlight.


As with all of your posts, Converse, your point of view is refreshing and spot on. I believe you articulate what many others wish they could. Well written.

sj-fsu

[Martina]

i was at my Dominants' house recently, and They were getting read to go out. It was a dress up occasion. When it was time to leave, Sir held the door for Ma'am. As She stepped through, She said, "How do i look?" Sir replied, "Lovely." It was just a moment, one like a dozen others that week, i am sure, but it caught my eye. It was beautiful.

i like our dynamic best when it is unstudied, when it is less performative, though that can be fun. But that moment when we recognize and appreciate one another -- it's so good.

[Miss Scarlett]

Wonderful post Converse. Thank you.

Being treated like a lady really brings out the woman in me. His gentleman draws her out and she’s very sensitive to him, unconsciously/automatically responding…things just flow naturally. This is a little hard to verbalize – but it also makes me feel different. Very feminine and not in a fru fru sense; I can feel just as feminine in jeans or sweats as in the frilliest of dresses. It’s a yin/yang thing and very beautiful.

[OS Butch]

Good evening. Thought I'd stop by and see what is going on.

OSB

[MadiT]

Hello everyone....stopping in to listen and learn :)

[OS Butch]

Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

[Miss Scarlett]

Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

I always thought so.

[Lynn]

Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

[OS Butch]

I can't speak for how others view Old School, but I will speak as to how I view my own behavior as Old School values pertain to me.

I bolded the part I have issues with your post. Because I open a door, I don't believe it perpetuates the view that women are weak. I do this for another Butches as well as my father or anyone that I respect and honor. I will graciously accept an open door from anyone whether they be Butch or Femme. I am sure there are those that would balk at this.....Maybe I am a progressive Butch.

The things I do as an Old Schooler are purely based on how I respect and honor those around me. I would hope that it is the same for others. All of my values and how I move in this world, I would hope, would never be interpreted for another being weak, silly or any less of a person.

I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

[Lynn]

OS Butch, I wasn't in any way meaning to imply that you or anyone who opens doors, etc., thinks a femme is weak. In fact, I was agreeing with you.

I said,

"The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang."

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I think we see eye to eye, if I understand you correctly.

[OS Butch]

I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I suppose it was my blinders were on too tight.

Over the years I have been ridiculed for being Old School. Old School is sometimes so misunderstood and in fact I don't believe it is Old Fashioned at all, it is the way it should be the way people treat people.

It always amazes when when I am on a subway or bus and there is an elderly, pregnant woman or a handicapped person standing, that people would let them stand rather than give up their seat. I can just feel the stares when I do give up my seat. But that probably is more because I am a Butch, not because of the courteous action.


OS Butch, I wasn't in any way meaning to imply that you or anyone who opens doors, etc., thinks a femme is weak. In fact, I was agreeing with you.

I said,

"The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang."

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I think we see eye to eye, if I understand you correctly.

[Lynn]

It always amazes when when I am on a subway or bus and there is an elderly, pregnant woman or a handicapped person standing, that people would let them stand rather than give up their seat. I can just feel the stares when I do give up my seat. But that probably is more because I am a Butch, not because of the courteous action.

I agree--I do the same thing. The stares are probably because you were considerate enough to think of it, and they weren't.

[OS Butch]

Lynn, After misunderstanding, I reread your post. I red lettered a portion.

Why? What is it about Old School that would keep folks from participating?

I really don't think I am any different than any other Butch, though it has been pointed out to me that there is a lack of general manners.

With manners on my mind, I would like to know, what manners seem to be lacking in the Butches from the Femmes' point of view. What are the top 3 things a Femme wants to see when going out on a first date?



I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

[Lynn]

Lynn, After misunderstanding, I reread your post. I red lettered a portion.

Why? What is it about Old School that would keep folks from participating?

For me, I just never saw myself as fitting into a discussion of OFOS. I don't think of myself as old fashioned, and I don't consider manners and consideration to be old school--I hope they're enduring and timeless. My views of OFOS are probably too stereotypical, but that's why I like to visit threads and read and learn.

I can't speak for other folks, though.

[OS Butch]

Thank you, Lynn. I have been feeling the same and wondering. I don't think I am old fashioned, which is why my preference is old school......which still doesn't feel right because I would hope that my values would not ever go out of vogue!

For me, I just never saw myself as fitting into a discussion of OFOS. I don't think of myself as old fashioned, and I don't consider manners and consideration to be old school--I hope they're enduring and timeless. My views of OFOS are probably too stereotypical, but that's why I like to visit threads and read and learn.

I can't speak for other folks, though.

[LBgirl]

I really don't think I am any different than any other Butch, though it has been pointed out to me that there is a lack of general manners.
With manners on my mind, I would like to know, what manners seem to be lacking in the Butches from the Femmes' point of view. What are the top 3 things a Femme wants to see when going out on a first date?

I've stood in the rain waiting for a group of (young) andro-butch girls to a) stop talking and actually go through the open door b) stomp their cig butts on the ground and leave it there and c) look at me waiting and still dilly-dally their way inside. So yes, there is definitely a lack of general manners.

My late partner was Old School. I find that most womyn, butch or otherwise, have lost their sense of chivalry. Here are my top 3:

1) She used to not only help me put my coat on, but she would gently pull my hair from beneath the collar, spread it attractively down my back and straighten my collar if needed. I often got a gentle peck on the back of my neck during the process. In return, I adored her as if she was the most wonderful, most attentive, best dressed, well-mannered, most thoughtful human being who ever walked the earth (and she will always be that to me).

2) She didn't rush to the prize. Our 1st date was leisurely, comfortable and... well... gentle. She wasn't looking for that opportunity to "make her move", she wasn't trying to kiss me on the 1st date, she didn't make sexually explicit innuendos and she kept everything at an affectionate but classy level. She would graze my hand with hers, with a a soft caress instead of trying to capture it like it was a flag to be conquered.

3) She paid attention to ME. Sure we like to hear that we're lovely, sexy, or that we "turn you on", but what's better is to hear that and to be heard, too. Don't talk over me, don't randomly segue into different topics as if you were doing a stream-of-consciousness recital. Actually focus on what I say, not on whatever point you wanted to make next.

Sorry if this is long-winded and/or preachy, I just feel very strongly about this subject.

[OS Butch]

Not long winded at all LBgirl. Thank you for posting your top 3!

I do think the assisting with the coat and hair adjusting is one of those very intimate things a Butch can do for a Femme. I believe this kind of doting is missing to often and that it should be alive and well.

OSB

I've stood in the rain waiting for a group of (young) andro-butch girls to a) stop talking and actually go through the open door b) stomp their cig butts on the ground and leave it there and c) look at me waiting and still dilly-dally their way inside. So yes, there is definitely a lack of general manners.

My late partner was Old School. I find that most womyn, butch or otherwise, have lost their sense of chivalry. Here are my top 3:

1) She used to not only help me put my coat on, but she would gently pull my hair from beneath the collar, spread it attractively down my back and straighten my collar if needed. I often got a gentle peck on the back of my neck during the process. In return, I adored her as if she was the most wonderful, most attentive, best dressed, well-mannered, most thoughtful human being who ever walked the earth (and she will always be that to me).

2) She didn't rush to the prize. Our 1st date was leisurely, comfortable and... well... gentle. She wasn't looking for that opportunity to "make her move", she wasn't trying to kiss me on the 1st date, she didn't make sexually explicit innuendos and she kept everything at an affectionate but classy level. She would graze my hand with hers, with a a soft caress instead of trying to capture it like it was a flag to be conquered.

3) She paid attention to ME. Sure we like to hear that we're lovely, sexy, or that we "turn you on", but what's better is to hear that and to be heard, too. Don't talk over me, don't randomly segue into different topics as if you were doing a stream-of-consciousness recital. Actually focus on what I say, not on whatever point you wanted to make next.

Sorry if this is long-winded and/or preachy, I just feel very strongly about this subject.

[LBgirl]

Not long winded at all LBgirl. Thank you for posting your top 3!

I do think the assisting with the coat and hair adjusting is one of those very intimate things a Butch can do for a Femme. I believe this kind of doting is missing to often and that it should be alive and well.

OSB

She was also from the South, a true Southern Gentleman. I remember the first time she did that for me... She had just put my coat on me, I reached up to pull my hair out and she gently grasped my elbows and put them down to my side, whispering in my ear, "Please let me." I felt a catch in my throat and my knees got weak. There's something to be said about that Southern Charm.

[undone]

LBgirl,

I think you have stated it with charm and grace, perfectly.

I think in todays life or at least what i have come across in my wanders, is a loss for the gentle reasons behind the curtsies, it seems to be done when done at all for sometimes less than genuine reasons

[LBgirl]

:missing: OFOS Butches are hard to find. Too many punks out there claiming to be "gentlemen" when they really just need a good spanking. My 2 cents, lol.

[DomnNC]

:missing: OFOS Butches are hard to find. Too many punks out there claiming to be "gentlemen" when they really just need a good spanking. My 2 cents, lol.

Chuckles, that gave me a lil laugh, thanks. I consider myself to be a gentleman. I open doors for the ladies I might happen to be out and about with. I wait until they are seated and if need be if it is a chair type sitting, help them with their chair. If it's winter time then I help them get their coat on. If it's chilly out and they have forgotten to wear a warm jacket I've been known to give them mine and insist that they take it. I will let them order first in restaurants unless they wish that I order for them, then I do that as well. If I'm riding a bus or some other similiar vehicle, if a lady is standing I will give her my seat. Those are just a few of the things I do.

But you're right, I think that as the generations have passed that being taught manners, politeness and what it is to be a gentleman or a lady has been tossed by the wayside by the mememe generations.

[PumaJ]

If being over a certain age and being of the opinion that using good manners shows respect for another makes one "old school", then I surely qualify! LOL!

Personally, I've always found it awkward when someone tries to help me on with my coat. I just am kind of a "dork" in that area and always manage to somehow get tangled up:-( However, I do appreciate it when anyone opens a door for me, or holds open a door for me. That's why I do so for others as well. But, there is something very different going on than mere manners when a Butch is the one getting the door for a Femme.

The wonderful Butches I've had the honor & pleasure of being partnered with in my life have been feminists, as I am. Yet, the wanting to open doors for me, hold my chair out, and all of the other gracious gestures they've done for me, just always seem to spring from their very beingness. Seems to me to be a quality that has somehow been encoded in them. Just as graciously allowing and receiving such gifts has been encoded in me, as a Femme. I'm definitely not the same way in my interactions with men, meaning I do my best to not allow or encourage such actions. Not that I want to be treated rudely. I just don't want to be treated differently by a man just because I'm a woman.

Yet, I would never stop a Butch from opening the door for me, or "laying her/hys coat" across the puddle for me to walk across. In my perception, we are both energetically empowered during such an exchange. It is part of the dance we do together. The dance that creates and completes a circle of feminine/masculine power between us that enriches, nourishes, and empowers each of us. That being said, my personal feminism comes out when I do the same sorts of gestures for the Butches I've been with. The fact that doing so often takes them by surprise is kind of fun and I've used it as a way to be playful.

Well, I could on a bit on that theme, I think, but I won't do that here. I will end by saying that I'm all for good manners. I believe they are a key factor in the civilized behavior of human beings, serving as a type of social lubricant that allows us to get along more easily with each other in our busy, hectic and increasingly crowded cities.

Off my soap box now.

[OS Butch]

Well, LB, I might add the are Femmes out there claiming to be OFOS and are just plain OHM (Old High Maintenance ) :)

I really must point out that claiming a gentleman is a wide range of possibilities.....From Not farting or scratching inappropriate places to the Ward Clever being waited on hand and foot types.

I was told I am not OS. The truth of it was I was not her type of old school, she wanted Ward Clever type, which is not me.....I am not at the other end of the spectrum either:) I am in the middle.

For me it is very much the ying and yang, the dance. I am just likely to bring a cup of coffee or tea to my lady as she would for me. It the compliment of being joined. Her accepting me for doing things she is quite capable of doing, but appreciates that I get great joy out of doing them for her.

So, be specific when entertaining a Butchly sort to determine what kind of OFOS you really like.

My 2 cents:)
OSB

:missing: OFOS Butches are hard to find. Too many punks out there claiming to be "gentlemen" when they really just need a good spanking. My 2 cents, lol.

[LBgirl]

Well, LB, I might add the are Femmes out there claiming to be OFOS and are just plain OHM (Old High Maintenance ) :)

I really must point out that claiming a gentleman is a wide range of possibilities.....From Not farting or scratching inappropriate places to the Ward Clever being waited on hand and foot types.

I was told I am not OS. The truth of it was I was not her type of old school, she wanted Ward Clever type, which is not me.....I am not at the other end of the spectrum either:) I am in the middle.

For me it is very much the ying and yang, the dance. I am just likely to bring a cup of coffee or tea to my lady as she would for me. It the compliment of being joined. Her accepting me for doing things she is quite capable of doing, but appreciates that I get great joy out of doing them for her.

So, be specific when entertaining a Butchly sort to determine what kind of OFOS you really like.

My 2 cents:)
OSB

I am in total agreement with you. It's not the act/s that impress me, it's the consideration and the dynamics of interaction that occur. Someone could hold a door for me and still be a complete cad. Ward Cleaver would be too boring. Now Ward Cleaver with a healthy dose of leather sprinkled in is a whole different story...

[OS Butch]

Good morning and Happy day to all. It has been months since I past through here. I trust all is well with folks.

I was thinking that my identity as OFOS is outdated. Old fashioned.....because it use to be how one was suppose to treat people? What kind of advancement is that in our society?

Shouldn't everyone be Old Fashioned?

I travel quite a bit between Virginia and Texas. Funny how things are different.

I went to a race track in West Virginia. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised how many people did not stand and how many men did not remove their hats.

I went to a rodeo in Texas. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised that EVERYONE stood and not 1 cowboy hat was on any head.

I know that I will continue to do my random acts of kindness as a rule of how I live and how I treat and respect others. If we all did these things, I hope it would catch on and it wouldn't be old fashioned or old school anymore.

[1ladyface]

As I was reading some of the previous posts about the loving actions of OFOS butches it struck me that being so respectful and sometimes even worshipful (is that the right word?) of femininity is, unfortunately radical in this world. As in, radically, eye-catchingly different from the behavior of the majority.

Just my two cents.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

She was also from the South, a true Southern Gentleman. I remember the first time she did that for me... She had just put my coat on me, I reached up to pull my hair out and she gently grasped my elbows and put them down to my side, whispering in my ear, "Please let me." I felt a catch in my throat and my knees got weak. There's something to be said about that Southern Charm.

I got the same catch in my throat when I read this. Oh my...

[claybaby]

I hope to never, ever lose my very own Southern Charm/gentleness....grin....and THANK YOU, Ladies~~~

[kittygrrl]

wish there was more activity in here..i don't care much for labels but some definitely fit ..people who understand (who i am) are smart and it's just hot when i find someone who gets me

[genghisfawn]

So there's LBGirl who mentions disingenuous punks who need spankings and OS Butch who mentions Old High Maintenance femmes... I've dealt with the former and I am certainly not the latter, but I still can't exactly describe what makes me OF/OS in a B-F context.

I also remember that just because it's never popularly discussed, there have been troubles, discords and abuses along the B-F continuum which people conveniently forget. Just like some of my fellow neo-traditionals*, I hope we don't forget that nothing is ever perfect because individual things and people are not perfect, either. But if we strive for an ideal because it gives us peace and comfort, we should continue to do it and welcome!

I am old-fashioned. I like my computer but I prefer my gramophone to a stereo. I prefer skirts to trousers. I'll take The Andrews Sisters over The Pussycat Dolls. I prefer cooking at home to doing takeout... but most of all I prefer mutual respect, honesty and loyalty to any sort of action or label.

These things seem to be lacking. I recently chased off one of those aforementioned punks (without a spanking... mustn't dirty my gloves) after a month or so of dating simply because hy was old enough to know better but too selfish to care. Hy claimed to be OS, and perhaps I didn't know hym well enough to understand how hy reckoned so, but perhaps hys definition of OS and my definition of OF are simply not compatible.

*Neo-traditional: A way of life which takes forgotten lessons of the past (modest dress, make-do-and-mend, stiff upper lip, courtesy and community, etc.) and employs them with lessons from the present (anti-homophobia, anti-racism, anti-sexism, etc.)

[kittygrrl]

Good morning and Happy day to all. It has been months since I past through here. I trust all is well with folks.

I was thinking that my identity as OFOS is outdated. Old fashioned.....because it use to be how one was suppose to treat people? What kind of advancement is that in our society?

Shouldn't everyone be Old Fashioned?

I travel quite a bit between Virginia and Texas. Funny how things are different.

I went to a race track in West Virginia. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised how many people did not stand and how many men did not remove their hats.

I went to a rodeo in Texas. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised that EVERYONE stood and not 1 cowboy hat was on any head.

I know that I will continue to do my random acts of kindness as a rule of how I live and how I treat and respect others. If we all did these things, I hope it would catch on and it wouldn't be old fashioned or old school anymore.

Manners and chivalry are never outdated..Maybe we are all a dying breed and when we are gone the neos will take over..i suppose that's ok but the extinction of this beautiful dynamic is hard to think about. Surely the gods will provide a tiny space for us somewhere in the universe.

[claybaby]

Manners and chivalry are never outdated..Maybe we are all a dying breed and when we are gone the neos will take over..i suppose that's ok but the extinction of this beautiful dynamic is hard to think about. Surely the gods will provide a tiny space for us somewhere in the universe.



so true, kittygrrrl. Manners, chivalry, respect, courtesy, and being attentive & kind are qualities that make me OFOS. As someone said..."walk the walk and talk the talk".
I tend to place my palm under her elbow if we are walking in someplace...OR offer her my arm, pull out her chair, and even order for her IF I am certain of her tastes.
If walking on a sidewalk, I always take the outside, place my hand at the small of her back ever so lightly, and put my other hand under her elbow if pathway is uneven.
I help her take off her coat, and don it afterwards..and even so much as that small, genuine yet ever so innocently intimate pulling her hair out and fanning it just so off the collar....grinz...
After the date, I walk her to her door, ask if I may kiss top of her hand..and then watch her safely in...even using her key to unlock her door for her..and make sure door is closed and secure before I leave!
It isn't about the $$ BUT the genuine sincerity and quality of a date and using my manners, courtesy, respect, and chivalry.....these cost no money and are PRICELESS!
I am so OF I prefer to call her...initially anyway...and I will text her or call her the next day or so....just to tell her what a wonderful evening I had and how much I enjoyed the pleasure of her company!!
These attributes should be present with us....all places and at all times...mine continue even into a LTR...these aren't just for dates and such...they are with me FOR LIFE! just my .02...smiles

[kittygrrl]

so true, kittygrrrl. Manners, chivalry, respect, courtesy, and being attentive & kind are qualities that make me OFOS. As someone said..."walk the walk and talk the talk".
I tend to place my palm under her elbow if we are walking in someplace...OR offer her my arm, pull out her chair, and even order for her IF I am certain of her tastes.
If walking on a sidewalk, I always take the outside, place my hand at the small of her back ever so lightly, and put my other hand under her elbow if pathway is uneven.
I help her take off her coat, and don it afterwards..and even so much as that small, genuine yet ever so innocently intimate pulling her hair out and fanning it just so off the collar....grinz...
After the date, I walk her to her door, ask if I may kiss top of her hand..and then watch her safely in...even using her key to unlock her door for her..and make sure door is closed and secure before I leave!
It isn't about the $$ BUT the genuine sincerity and quality of a date and using my manners, courtesy, respect, and chivalry.....these cost no money and are PRICELESS!
I am so OF I prefer to call her...initially anyway...and I will text her or call her the next day or so....just to tell her what a wonderful evening I had and how much I enjoyed the pleasure of her company!!
These attributes should be present with us....all places and at all times...mine continue even into a LTR...these aren't just for dates and such...they are with me FOR LIFE! just my .02...smiles

This is perfection (to me)..it's not about going thru the motions of doing what someone (OS femme) might expect..it's all about believing in what you are doing and owning it (as part of who you are)..being otherwise is misleading..if that's not who you are, then don't try to pull it off..but if you're trying to figure it out if it feels right (for you)then that is exciting and it would be a privilege to have hym take my hand.

[1ladyface]

:nothingtoadd:

I've been relatively quiet but I just want to say that this is my most favorite thread to lurk! :curtain: Thanks for the good reads.

:thumbsup:

[SweetJane]

I got the same catch in my throat when I read this. Oh my...

Arkansas, I teared up when I read it....Yeah. I'd like one of those, please.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I can’t say if I’m OFOS or not, simply because I was raised within the Maori culture where politeness, respect, consideration and loyalty are common place; even amongst family members.

Very often I’m told that I’m painfully polite….it’s a part of who I am. I’m proud to be well mannered and courteous regardless of what others think.

[genghisfawn]

Where oh where is my OF/OS butch? They say chivalry isn't dead, they say old-fashioned isn't out of fashion, etc. but where is hy?

:)

Never mind me and my whining. I'm struggling with broken heat, a broken toilet and not enough blankets. If I could find hym, at least I wouldn't be cold!

[Bootsandheels]

so true, kittygrrrl. Manners, chivalry, respect, courtesy, and being attentive & kind are qualities that make me OFOS. As someone said..."walk the walk and talk the talk".
I tend to place my palm under her elbow if we are walking in someplace...OR offer her my arm, pull out her chair, and even order for her IF I am certain of her tastes.
If walking on a sidewalk, I always take the outside, place my hand at the small of her back ever so lightly, and put my other hand under her elbow if pathway is uneven.
I help her take off her coat, and don it afterwards..and even so much as that small, genuine yet ever so innocently intimate pulling her hair out and fanning it just so off the collar....grinz...
After the date, I walk her to her door, ask if I may kiss top of her hand..and then watch her safely in...even using her key to unlock her door for her..and make sure door is closed and secure before I leave!
It isn't about the $$ BUT the genuine sincerity and quality of a date and using my manners, courtesy, respect, and chivalry.....these cost no money and are PRICELESS!
I am so OF I prefer to call her...initially anyway...and I will text her or call her the next day or so....just to tell her what a wonderful evening I had and how much I enjoyed the pleasure of her company!!
These attributes should be present with us....all places and at all times...mine continue even into a LTR...these aren't just for dates and such...they are with me FOR LIFE! just my .02...smiles

This is perfection (to me)..it's not about going thru the motions of doing what someone (OS femme) might expect..it's all about believing in what you are doing and owning it (as part of who you are)..being otherwise is misleading..if that's not who you are, then don't try to pull it off..but if you're trying to figure it out if it feels right (for you)then that is exciting and it would be a privilege to have hym take my hand.


*Struts in so you all can hear me coming...;) Oh can I get an "AMEN" here?! THANK YOU for sharing everyone! OFOS is SO misunderstood and mistaken out here in the pacific NW...the butches seem terrified of me or something...haven't they ever seen or been around a real lady with integrity, honesty and a femme who knows how to treat them like gold and drop them to their knees with one well placed touch? Good Lord...I'm about to lose faith and heart. However...I will NOT lose these vital 'ingredients' that make me who I am...a fierce sexy OFOS femme with high standards who knows what she wants and needs and will not settle for less. Maybe that means I'll be alone but that's ok...I'd rather be alone than settle for anything less than a gentlmyn butch! *Curtsies and exits stage left...:eyebat:.

[claybaby]

*Struts in so you all can hear me coming...;) Oh can I get an "AMEN" here?! THANK YOU for sharing everyone! OFOS is SO misunderstood and mistaken out here in the pacific NW...the butches seem terrified of me or something...haven't they ever seen or been around a real lady with integrity, honesty and a femme who knows how to treat them like gold and drop them to their knees with one well placed touch? Good Lord...I'm about to lose faith and heart. However...I will NOT lose these vital 'ingredients' that make me who I am...a fierce sexy OFOS femme with high standards who knows what she wants and needs and will not settle for less. Maybe that means I'll be alone but that's ok...I'd rather be alone than settle for anything less than a gentlmyn butch! *Curtsies and exits stage left...:eyebat:.

Bootsie...YOU are an amazingly beautiful soul...your presence illuminates the room....as does your impeccable manners, refined elegance, a true lady in every sense of the word, and your aura...of how you are who you are...and apologize to no one..you OWN you...you are "felt" long before you enter a room...powerful, sensuous, and so decadently elegant! Have a cup of mexican hot chocolate, gorgeous!!! THANKS for the validation, the affirmations, and being YOU, my friend!! You exude "old fashioned" and "respect"..you carry YOU well.. WORK it Girl!!! bows and tip brim of fedora to all the ladies......Clay

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I love it when K gently kisses my hands and forehead and leads me gracefully to the table or door, etc, before doing the gentle(wo)manly thing of pulling out the chair or opening the door.

Yesterday, she escorted my to the Uni reception, wished me ‘Good luck’ and waited in the car with a book to read. Whilst helping me in and out of the car hy help my coat.

It’s too early to say whether this is her Army training and the rank she held of Major, or if it’s how she was also raised….it’s fun discovering! LOL!

Is this chivalry common place among veterans of the Military, or is it just a typical British Army thing?