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Jet
11-21-2009, 12:48 PM
A place for old fashioned and old school cool folks to congregate. Thread is now open to just hang out or to talk about what it means to you to be OFOS.

Leigh
11-21-2009, 03:27 PM
This looks like its gonna be a great thread Jet, I will definately be back :thumbsup:

Jet
11-21-2009, 04:47 PM
Hi Braedon, surely we can't be the only ones who are OFOS....
Where are the femmes?
__________________________________________________

YouTube- The Temptations - My Girl (Movie version)

Darth Denkay
11-22-2009, 05:05 PM
Wicket here - thanks for starting the thread!

Kimbo
11-22-2009, 05:19 PM
Not sure if I am one of the cool peeps but I'm here hanging out. Thanks for the thread Jet.

Jet
11-22-2009, 05:26 PM
Not sure if I am one of the cool peeps but I'm here hanging out. Thanks for the thread Jet.

You're cool and you're welcome

Jet
11-22-2009, 05:27 PM
Wicket here - thanks for starting the thread!

Hey welcome! I think we need to keep this bumped up since it's so new.

hpychick
11-22-2009, 05:35 PM
First femme to stop by! Hey y'all!

Jet
11-22-2009, 05:42 PM
First femme to stop by! Hey y'all!

Welcome, thanks for stopping by. Hope to see you around here more often.

HumV4me
11-22-2009, 05:49 PM
~~Bumpity bump bump~~

**waves to all old school folks**

Jet
11-22-2009, 06:33 PM
SO EVERYONE


I'm afraid to ask this question,

but ...

what makes you old school?

Please God, lets not debate this or turn this into a long, cold dissertation
Let the answers just be from our hearts.

HumV4me
11-22-2009, 07:00 PM
Can I cheat... I'm sure there's a lil black book of old school rules and regulations that are subject to interpretation!

I'm old school cause I don't (((have not ever))) dated or been with one of my femme sisters ex's.

:laundryday::walking-poodle:

Jet
11-22-2009, 07:02 PM
hey if there's OS rules in your little black book that's great. maybe we should all take a look in that book.

Darth Denkay
11-23-2009, 06:59 PM
I call myself old school because I honor and respect the butches and femmes who paved the way for us to be like we are. I value our history. I value chivalry, being a gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson). Manners, respect, loyalty - these are some of the things I strive to exude as a partner. I need to run so will probably add more later, but this is at least a start.

-Wicket

Jet
11-29-2009, 05:49 PM
Bump for OFOS :beatnik: who may not have seen this thread.

Scarlet Harlot
11-30-2009, 06:07 AM
*Peeks round the door* Hello :bouquet:

English OFOS femme princess here.

Why am I old school???? I'm not entirely sure but new school doesn't feel right to me

Jet
12-16-2009, 03:20 PM
I'm bumping this up; for sure there has to be OS butches and femmes.

Surayna
12-16-2009, 03:29 PM
Peeking my head in the door.

Jet
12-16-2009, 05:24 PM
Years ago, I did a 2-man drag show based on the 1950s.
My best friend and I converted the dance floor at a gay bar to
a basketball court and a gym as a fictional
Eisenhower High School in 1956.

We made a lot of money that night impersonating singers of the 1950s.
We borrowed a white baby grand piano from the local playhouse,
guitars and sax's.

This is one of the songs I did solo
from Sha Na Na:

____________________________________________

YouTube- Sha Na Na/Johnny Contardo - Those Magic Changes

HeartBreak Kid
01-11-2010, 07:20 AM
Oh how I love and adore my OFOS Butches...without u all I am only half my potential. *Sigh*
I wish there was a OFOS Bootcamp for some of theese "new school" butches...the smoothness charm and energy is just all wrong..(at least for me).....anyway Thanks Jet for the thread :gimmehug:

Linus
01-11-2010, 07:23 AM
I call myself old school because I honor and respect the butches and femmes who paved the way for us to be like we are. I value our history. I value chivalry, being a gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson). Manners, respect, loyalty - these are some of the things I strive to exude as a partner. I need to run so will probably add more later, but this is at least a start.

-Wicket

Couldn't have said it better. As a trans brother of mine put it -- I am a man of integrity.

Rogue
01-11-2010, 08:47 AM
Just like WickedWarrick said.. I, too, respect those who have paved the way for us, I respect and value not only our history, but our way of life, our way of interacting, the dynamics we share, and the love and respect amongst us.
With that said..
I call myself old fashioned/old school because that is the dynamics of our love, our relationship, and our way of life.. hell you could say that I'm a modern day June Cleaver with a twist! ;)

Rogue

Jet
01-11-2010, 09:17 PM
I was thinking how much OFOS comes off as a train of thinking or a set of rules. I don't know if that applies to everyone who considers themselves OFOS. I know it doesn't for me. Although I'm self-described as OFOS. Anyway, I hope this thread will grow with personal stories and experiences or just to bond online with like-minded folks.,

LieslKate
01-12-2010, 01:03 AM
*holds up a fresh off the press copy of "The OFOS Rules" *

LieslKate
01-30-2010, 02:49 PM
This NEEDS bumping... :)

:happyjump:

Canela
01-30-2010, 02:56 PM
I have a question--

In your opinion, do Old Fashioned/Old School and Stone go hand in hand?

Just wondering what interpretations there might be...







:artist:

OS Butch
03-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Oh how I love and adore my OFOS Butches...without u all I am only half my potential. *Sigh*
I wish there was a OFOS Bootcamp for some of theese "new school" butches...the smoothness charm and energy is just all wrong..(at least for me).....anyway Thanks Jet for the thread :gimmehug:

I have no idea what ďnew schoolĒ is all about. Someone care to enlighten me on their interpretation?

I have a question--

In your opinion, do Old Fashioned/Old School and Stone go hand in hand?

Just wondering what interpretations there might be...

My short answer: No, they do not.

OpinionÖ.InterpretationsÖMy disclaimerÖWhat you are about to read is totally my opinion and has nothing to do with how anyone else may feel about OFOS. Itís all my opinion and how I interact with the world, not just the realm of the Butch-Femme Dynamic.

What is OFOS? Maybe it would be easier to say what it is not. I believe for some the idea of OFOS is the Ward and June Clever life. It is that idea has caused a rejection of OFOS for some peopleÖThat it is outdated, therefore irrelevant today.

OFOS is not keeping the little woman is the kitchen so dinner is on the table when the Butch comes home from a long day at work.

OFOS is not a Butch taking care of everything because the Femme is unable.

OFOS is not just opening the door for Femmes.

OFOS is not about who is on top or bottom.

In my opinion OFOS is all about love, respect, honor and loyalty. None of which should be exclusively OFOS. All of these things should be part of oneís living code of ethics.

For me, OFOS is a way of life. I open a door for a Femme or even a Butch to honor and respect that person, not because I am Butch and that is what I am suppose to do. An OFOS Femme appreciates these gestures because she knows it is done out of love, honor and respect, not because she cannot do it herself.

I walk on the street side with my hand on the small of her back or holding her elbow because I care, honor and respect her. She allows me to do so because she knows it is how I honor her.

I walk in front of her, grasping her hands behind me as we wander through a crowded room. This keeps her from getting bumped and she allows me to do so because she respects that this is how I show my caring and respect for her.

For the life of me, I donít understand why simply courtesy has dropped to the wayside and are called old fashioned. For me, it is anything but old fashioned. It is the way I choose to move through this world. Why do I feel so alone?


OSB

Jet
03-03-2010, 06:07 PM
Glad this is bumped up. I forgot this thread was here. Sayin hey...from OSOF-er

OS Butch
03-03-2010, 06:32 PM
Glad this is bumped up. I forgot this thread was here. Sayin hey...from OSOF-er

Hi. OFOS does often get forgotten. It is a shame.

Soft*Silver
03-03-2010, 07:10 PM
I cant imagine dating anyone who wasnt OFOS. I think the older I get, the more I appreciate the basics: someone who is courteous, respectful, entertaining, tastefully charming, genuinely warm, offers a woman quiet adoration without suffocation, and most of all can classically slow dance without stepping on the dance floor, to my music that isnt heard on the jukebox by anyone but him...

OS Butch
03-03-2010, 07:27 PM
I cant imagine dating anyone who wasnt OFOS. I think the older I get, the more I appreciate the basics: someone who is courteous, respectful, entertaining, tastefully charming, genuinely warm, offers a woman quiet adoration without suffocation, and most of all can classically slow dance without stepping on the dance floor, to my music that isnt heard on the jukebox by anyone but him...

That is exactly the dance of an OFOS couple. Thank you for your point of view.

OSB

OS Butch
03-06-2010, 07:40 AM
Well, now...I am new to this site, but have been on line in the B-F community for over 5 years. I think as I have grown older, I have gotten more vocal...I wonder if it it because I really don't care what people think of me, I am just me and that is that.

With that being said, here are the thought running through this brain of mine.....

Wow, this thread was opened in November and has only had 30 posts and only 350 views......

Which then leads to....

I guess I really am a dinosaur and I am all alone...

or

People see OFOS and assume you have to be old as dirt to be OFOS and are not interested.....

or even

It's that folks have had a run in with the person that opened the thread and won't go here because of that. I don't know that and I don't know Ol Jet, just saying what is going through my head.


Having values of loyalty, honor and trust are not Old Fashioned, Old School and should never go out of style.

OSB

OS Butch
03-08-2010, 07:32 AM
It's official, I am a Wooly Mammoth. Sad to see anything go extinct, especially when all it takes is a bit of care and nurturing.

OSB

Mrs. Strutt
03-08-2010, 09:28 AM
Good morning to the other OS folks :)

Greyson
03-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Good morning to the other OS folks :)


Good morning bact at you Mrs. Strutt. Nice to see yet another familiar face here. The Strutt family is back in da house.

Jet
03-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Jet's .02

This is my two cents which I pulled out of a pair of
penny loafers that belonged my girlfriend, Susie Q,
who I made out with at the drive-in in my pickup.

Being old school isn't a philosophy. It is not complicated
deserving of heated debate or discourse or dissertation
It is not something politically correct to the point of
hatred. It is uncomplicated and unpretentious and
worn like distressed leather.

Old school is romantic and passionate.

I believe it is something innate, a way of life
that has everything to do with they way we are built; what we prefer
our tastes and likenesses.

It is not acquired. It is natural.
Because we have a natural respect and likenesses and affinities
for things that are traditional and, well...old fashioned.

Old school is pure heart.

We are deeply romantic and passionate for traditional loves and roles.
Roles are not a bad thing.
They are not some facade on one day and off another or for the moment.

For me, roles are a way of life.
They are about dancing with your wife. And going to war
if ever called because it's the right thing to do.
And loving children. And sunsets and working
for a living and loving hard and long at a summer place
and loving so deeply that your core being is
fully satisfied as the very woman or man that you are.

Old school comes naturally.

At times, it feels manly and responsible and romantic and passionate
and charged with devotion, care and values that existed in another time.
And all of these things are clean and sweet like a high notes.

But they vary as we vary.
"To each his own brother," as an old schooler would say.

Old school is heart's desire that runs as deep as the ocean.
Maybe being swept off your feet, and pleasing a man with a beautiful
femininity of yours and qualities that a real-in-soul guy lives for...
because that is how he is made. Just as much as your willingness to
be cared for and loved in a way that is nurturing, and that is sexy and passionate to you.
Respected and honored in mind and body.
It's an old value that is ours.

Did you ever catch fireflies? Did you ever just know,
with a look or a touch, that it was for life?
That's old school.

It is natural and simple and it is just us.

And for the record?

This is what was playing at the drive-in that night
when I fell in love and I was loved because

I am truly old school...

YouTube- A Summer Place(1959)/ŪĒľžĄúžßĞ󟞥ú žÉĚÍłīžĚľ

Did you ever catch fireflies?

Jet
03-12-2010, 03:28 PM
My kind of old school.
Actually, I mimed this rendition in a 1950s
drag show years ago, with my buddy, D.J. who is now FTM.
He played Johnny Angel and I played White Buck Ford.
The girlies swooned. heh, heh.

YouTube- tears on my pillow -sha na na-

Princess4u
03-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Jet's .02

This is my two cents which I pulled out of a pair of
penny loafers that belonged my girlfriend, Susie Q,
who I made out with at the drive-in in my pickup.

Being old school isn't a philosophy. It is not complicated
deserving of heated debate or discourse or dissertation
It is not something politically correct to the point of
hatred. It is uncomplicated and unpretentious and
worn like distressed leather.

Old school is romantic and passionate.

I believe it is something innate, a way of life
that has everything to do with they way we are built; what we prefer
our tastes and likenesses.

It is not acquired. It is natural.
Because we have a natural respect and likenesses and affinities
for things that are traditional and, well...old fashioned.

Old school is pure heart.

We are deeply romantic and passionate for traditional loves and roles.
Roles are not a bad thing.
They are not some facade on one day and off another or for the moment.

For me, roles are a way of life.
They are about dancing with your wife. And going to war
if ever called because it's the right thing to do.
And loving children. And sunsets and working
for a living and loving hard and long at a summer place
and loving so deeply that your core being is
fully satisfied as the very woman or man that you are.

Old school comes naturally.

At times, it feels manly and responsible and romantic and passionate
and charged with devotion, care and values that existed in another time.
And all of these things are clean and sweet like a high notes.

But they vary as we vary.
"To each his own brother," as an old schooler would say.

Old school is heart's desire that runs as deep as the ocean.
Maybe being swept off your feet, and pleasing a man with a beautiful
femininity of yours and qualities that a real-in-soul guy lives for...
because that is how he is made. Just as much as your willingness to
be cared for and loved in a way that is nurturing, and that is sexy and passionate to you.
Respected and honored in mind and body.
It's an old value that is ours.

Did you ever catch fireflies? Did you ever just know,
with a look or a touch, that it was for life?
That's old school.

It is natural and simple and it is just us.

And for the record?

This is what was playing at the drive-in that night
when I fell in love and I was loved because

I am truly old school...

YouTube- A Summer Place(1959)/ŪĒľžĄúžßĞ󟞥ú žÉĚÍłīžĚľ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihljspJpzG4)

Did you ever catch fireflies?

That is very beautiful my friend...if you arent careful you will have a following of women swooning for your affection. Not that thats a bad thing my dear.....LOL

Jet
03-12-2010, 05:14 PM
That is very beautiful my friend...if you arent careful you will have a following of women swooning for your affection. Not that thats a bad thing my dear.....LOL

Thank you. I'm not sure about the following, but it is how i feel.

Leigh
03-12-2010, 05:19 PM
Glad to see this thread bumped up, as it should be :)

Soft*Silver
03-12-2010, 06:41 PM
my daughter, who is now 26 and almost engaged, took her cues from her momma about dating...when she started dating, she developed a criteria check list that they had to pass before she would accept a date, and a list for after the first date was over. She had seen me date OFOS butches throughout her childhood and expected her hetero bio men to treat her as well as my butches treated me...

Mrs. Strutt
03-12-2010, 07:22 PM
Good morning bact at you Mrs. Strutt. Nice to see yet another familiar face here. The Strutt family is back in da house.
Thank you, Greyson :flowers: Mrs. Strutt, for one, is glad to be back in da house...I have missed being among my own kind for so long.

Gemme
03-12-2010, 07:33 PM
SO EVERYONE


I'm afraid to ask this question,

but ...

what makes you old school?

Please God, lets not debate this or turn this into a long, cold dissertation
Let the answers just be from our hearts.

I don't know if I'm fully in the realm of Old School yet, but I know that I have OS tendencies and that I prefer those who exhibit OS behaviors.

I agree with Wicket's post below as to what that means to me.

I call myself old school because I honor and respect the butches and femmes who paved the way for us to be like we are. I value our history. I value chivalry, being a gentleman (or gentlewoman/gentleperson). Manners, respect, loyalty - these are some of the things I strive to exude as a partner. I need to run so will probably add more later, but this is at least a start.

-Wicket

Lovely!

I have a question--

In your opinion, do Old Fashioned/Old School and Stone go hand in hand?

Just wondering what interpretations there might be...

For me, they definitely accentuate one another, but don't neceessarily mean that they are permanently linked.







:artist:

sylvie
03-30-2010, 07:30 PM
*waves*
:newbie:
erm, well in *this* thread anyway!
so just wanted to say hello, and hope you all have a wonderful day tomorrow!

Soft*Silver
03-30-2010, 08:06 PM
why am I old school old fashioned? In MY OPINION and ONLY FOR ME maybe because I am not what I consider new school, new day of age, new ways...

I dont swear alot

I am not disrespectful to myself nor to others....

I dont hang my "tits" out my blouse...in fact they are the girls, not tits...

I like knowing AND understanding the words of songs that are sung not screamed

I cross my legs not uncross them in order to get the attention of that butch over there

smiling at a butch means hello, not wanna fuck?

dancing together means dancing not sex

dating means dating not sex

sex means making love not fucking

fucking comes when love is established and secured

well..there is more but this will start...

Mrs. Strutt
04-06-2010, 05:48 PM
Being "old school" is having a reverence for respect, integrity and honor--the foundation of what forms any old school soul.

It's not something you are just because it's the fashion of the day. It's not a snazzy garment you pull out for special occasions.

Being old school is like that soft, many times-washed old cotton t-shirt that fits you like a glove--so comfortable, you don't even know you have it on.

I am proud to be an old school femme.

Gemme
04-06-2010, 05:55 PM
Being "old school" is having a reverence for respect, integrity and honor--the foundation of what forms any old school soul.

It's not something you are just because it's the fashion of the day. It's not a snazzy garment you pull out for special occasions.

Being old school is like that soft, many times-washed old cotton t-shirt that fits you like a glove--so comfortable, you don't even know you have it on.

I am proud to be an old school femme.

I really relate to this post.

Jet
04-07-2010, 09:57 PM
The night was warm with just a hint of north breeze now and then.
The dance had ended at midnight and most sailors and soldiers had found their way to hotels and bunks on this three-day liberty.

I met her at the USO canteen, with its crowd of soldiers and working girls who had volunteered their evenings and their company of doughnuts and hot coffee for as long as they would last. Each girl, with her lined hosiery and upsweep, and 2-inch hemline, which had been cut short for the wool needed ocean's away, made herself available to soldiers to boost their morale and their hopes of returning home.

The canteen had grown hot on this night with loud swing music and fast jitterbugs and thoughts of war long forgotton under lilting trumpets and hot saxes and fast drums. It was swing and a time when all of America danced to a different tune.

Midnight struck some time ago and she invited me to her apartment to shave and to bunk on her sofa. It was all on the up and up—a sailor and a single girl both fighting for the same thing, in the name of the war effort, which we thought was the right thing. She was beautiful. I didn't want to touch her for fear of losing her, and yet I wanted to touch her all through the night.

She offered me Johnny Walker Red and a light for filterless smokes and a place to rest on her sofa. I saw that there were things out of line; a door hinge needed fixing, paint had chipped on the kitchen wall, things needed patching and straightening. And I wanted to stay and take care of everything for her, but it wasn't to be.

I could have pursued her and promised her a million things that a million guys would have offered, but I liked her. I was beholden to her generosity and her care that I may or may not ever come back. That alone, meant everything.

The Johnny Walker Red loosened my memories of all that I had loved and all that I could lose in a single detonated charge somewhere in the Pacific. I asked her to dance closer to me, and to a beautiful trumpet that made me forget.

There wasn't time for explanations, or excuses or promises. What mattered in this moment was the feel of her and possibly the last time I would ever see her.

The lights dimmed, the trumpet played and we danced to the unknown on a summer night in 1942...

OkTA7fOvCJY

Jet
04-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Flying in and out to say hello. have a good night.

Lillie
04-16-2010, 05:35 PM
:confused:Is there any other kind?:confused:

I guess I have been lucky in finding any butch I dated being ofos. I love being treated like a lady. I live in an area where the next town over is 65+ and occasionally we shop there..I always get a giggle when I hear the older woman say to her husband "Oh look at that nice young man opening her car door" and than she turns around and they turn red realizing she is in fact a she!...I respect any woman ofos or not who treats another with respect and manners AND trust me it does not go un noticed when its genuine ..and completely NOTICED when its not!:blink::

lol
Lillie

Kštzchen
05-16-2010, 12:43 AM
I really like a lot of the sentiment that has been expressed here by Jet and by Tiffany (Mrs. Strutt) and by Softness.

Several descriptions of what OFOS are known to be like, such as: Jet conveying that being OFOS comes from a place of sharing an affinity for romance and passion - something that's innate between the butch and a femme who share and enjoy the dynamic of their relationship dance. I like how Tiffany likened it to "feeling like a soft, many times washed, old cotton t-shirt that fits like a glove" - I like how she decribed that feeling between those who feel they are of the OFOS variety. Also, I enjoyed reading ideas that Softness presented: for example, she was saying that "dating means dating, not sex" and "smiling at a butch means hello" or even "dancing means dancing" together and not something else!

I feel that I am rather old fashioned and of an older, mature, school of thought in that I - for those of you who have met me and spoken with me in person - am pretty quiet by nature and not as 'out loud and proud' as some might think. Even in my past professional career as a practicing, licensed hairdresser (Tiffany might agree with me on this), we serve our clinetele with a gracious spirit and I guess this is what I am trying to say about me - is that there's a spirit of grace that permeates my personality and the way I carry myself. At least I have been told this by people who know me and interact with me on a daily basis.

I have another story (an example) of what I'm like in a different context/situation: My advisor (and Program Director) was gone to Israel on a special trip with colleagues in the department and I needed special assistance. So, I went to our department chairperson - I've had them for several courses - and during our hour long visit to help me resolve a conflict, he said to me that 'I was such a sweetheart of a person' because of how I was trying to make sense of my situation and be considerate of the other person, as well as myself. It felt good to hear him say that to me because sometimes that is not how people read me... if that makes any sense at all.

For me (a Femme perspective), OFOS orientation is connected to -
timing issues: I wait to be invited to dance
romantic notions: a melding of fidelity and trust
relationship ideals: a passionate regard for the traditional

to me, it's an intricate dance of communication skills between two people who share similar values and beliefs and it's not too easy, this dance that we do. That said, it would seem that what I have been able to itemize above might seem to be what most people strive to attain in ordinary ways, but there's something special that occurs between those of us who identify with what OFOS means to those of us who feel we exude these qualities. It seems so hard to decribe in written text - it seems elusive, yet I know and recognise the signs by which we give to one another and how it feels as we live it in our daily lives. Like Jet was saying in an earlier post - being OFOS "is uncomplicated, unpretentious and worn like distressed leather."

To me, that feels so right and describes how I feel about what OFOS is about.
It's late, so if my post seems to not make too much sense, just know that I'm headed to dreamland soon... My pillows are finally calling me!

Good night and sweet dreams to all of you!

Jet
05-17-2010, 12:41 AM
Honey Touch Me With My Clothes On

fpG2ArGLRWw

Kštzchen
05-17-2010, 01:09 AM
Jet???

You were here!!!! AND, you posted about Gilda Radner!

Is she amazing or what???

I remember staying up late watching Saturday Night Live and she was my favorite actress-performer!!!! Oh my stars, she was sOoOoOOOoo funny!

She was also an inspiration to me and her husband, Gene Wilder, was such a wonderful husband to her -- even during the greatest battle she ever faced -- and he was so good to her! He is a Saint, in my books!!!! Do you feel that way about Gene Wilder too???

That video you left here is very special - You know at the end of the video where there's a quote left by Gilda???

Life is about not knowing, having to change, taking the moment and making the best of it, without knowing what's going to happen next. Delicious ambiguity.

It's the "ambiguity" piece that has become so important to me, during this past year of studies: One of my favorite professors (in our department), taught me so much this past year on that very thing - ambiguity - and being willing to accept ambiguity because it is an opportunity to explore and discover moments that are shrouded in ambiguity and to not be afraid of the unknown. And to me, this is the priceless part about being in the moment and not knowing what comes next or what change we might need to accept or even use our imagination to creatively find new ways to experience what life offers as we taste ambiguity in our lives! Truly, Gilda's humor and how she faced her fears and battles in life is a shining example and inspiration to us all! This is such a gift to remember Gilda tonight - this helps me sooo much!!!!

Thanks so much Jet for thinking to post about Gilda Radner tonight!

:moonstars:

Kštzchen
05-20-2010, 10:12 AM
I thought I'd leave a video here this morning before I head out for the day!

I don't know about any of you, but I loved the (TV series) The Dick Van Dyke Show years ago! I always thought of it as a sit-com of an OFOS young couple and their friends and family life!

*enjoy*

eIWJTiRW2aE&feature=related

:blueheels:

Kštzchen
05-21-2010, 08:49 PM
In my sleeping this afternoon, I was dreamily contemplating all the qualities and characteristics about me that identify me as an Old Fashioned Old Skool Femme....

I favor songs that are soulful, sweet and charming - this seems to reflect my type of temperment. Also, I tend to prefer pet nicknames (for me) like: Darling, Sweetheart, Your Majesty (playfully, of course), and Sugar... among other creative references and my circle of friends tends to be rather small (I only have so much energy)! But, that's about as far as I got this afternoon, while I was thinking about things that are typical of me...

I kind of slept the day away tending to my own needs, so I guess I'll be up all night *silly me* !!!

Jet
06-08-2010, 05:21 AM
Dance #16: Heart and Soul

If I sat next to you would you think I cared?
If I asked you to slow dance, would you?

Would you sway and twirl
heart to heart, soul to soul?

Would you run through hayfields
and laugh away the years with me?

Would you kiss me in the moonlight?
Would you teach me how?

Would you join me in a life long duet?

I wonder.

Would you love me heart and soul?

—The Dancer of Atlanta


ckOh6N8_9Sg

Toughy
06-08-2010, 03:35 PM
I don't identify with being 'old fashioned' at all.

I am old school. Integrity, manners, charm, do the right thing, protect only when asked, loyalty, compassion, etc.

I love it when a femme comes to me and asks for a dance. Femmes should be strong, powerful, in control, knows what she wants and will work/ask for it.

I love getting flowers. I love giving flowers.

I want to see her out in her glory.....tits showing, slit up the side of her leg skirt, shoes that make me wet (I'm a shoe whore, what can I say), looking/acting like sex walking....ok.....mmmm.......I lost my train of thought....oh yeah.....that is an OS femme in my book...one who owns her body and her sexuality and is not afraid to show the world....and fuck em if they don't like it.

I am always puzzled by the linking of 'old fashioned' with 'old school'. They are two different things in my mind. They are not linked together for me. IF they were, then I would be kicking a butch's ass who looked at my date, making butches ask me (not her) if they can dance with her...and a whole lot of other old fashioned ways of treating women.

I came out in what most folks think of as OFOS times...early 70's.....there is a whole bunch of that old school stuff that I hate and most of it is centered in the old fashioned way in which women were treated.

So for me........I am truly old school. But I truly dislike and am not old fashioned.

Ebon
06-08-2010, 04:44 PM
I respect my elders
I prefer a woman's soul over looks
I like to be a gentleman to a lady that allows me to
I love old school music 50's 60's 70's
I have to connect with someone on a deep level before I make love to them
I got my ass whipped as a kid. lol
I try to be considerate, if I'm not I don't realize it
I prefer women with old souls
I don't like BS from anyone
I try to learn my lessons from the Universe so I don't have to keep going through the same shit
I see life as life, some things can be changed some cannot either way it goes I enjoy myself and try not to wallow too long
I don't let silly shit affect me
I get over things pretty quickly

I'm sure there is a more but this is a start

OB

Jet
10-17-2010, 09:54 AM
Resurrecting this thread.

sylvie
10-21-2010, 06:58 AM
hello OS'ers! ♥

i love reading through this thread ..
i'm most definitely an old soul - i have many old school values..
i love to be treated like a lady, having the door opened for me , chair pulled out for me, etc... it helps make me feel so cared for, adored.. safe, taken care of.. someone who will hold my hand to keep me close, and i am very traditional in ways of dating/romance..

glad to see this thread resurrected.. ♥
have a wonderful day all!

cuddlyfemme
10-26-2010, 02:03 PM
Bringing back this thread!

Jet
01-20-2011, 02:43 PM
This is where it rings....fuck everything else

W3He_gyNG6A

Leigh
01-20-2011, 04:07 PM
Its good to see this thread again :)

Nightshade
01-20-2011, 04:15 PM
I don't know how I missed this thread before! In fact, is there another one like it with zero responses? I thought I saw that.

Regardless, I wish I weren't reading this on my phone while at work! I want to go through and savor the entire thread! Sigh.

I hope it stays active, and I'll try to do my part.

Nightshade

Nightshade
01-21-2011, 03:06 AM
I want to see her out in her glory.....tits showing, slit up the side of her leg skirt, shoes that make me wet (I'm a shoe whore, what can I say), looking/acting like sex walking....ok.....mmmm.......I lost my train of thought....oh yeah.....that is an OS femme in my book...one who owns her body and her sexuality and is not afraid to show the world....and fuck em if they don't like it.

I am always puzzled by the linking of 'old fashioned' with 'old school'. They are two different things in my mind. They are not linked together for me. IF they were, then I would be kicking a butch's ass who looked at my date, making butches ask me (not her) if they can dance with her...and a whole lot of other old fashioned ways of treating women.

I came out in what most folks think of as OFOS times...early 70's.....there is a whole bunch of that old school stuff that I hate and most of it is centered in the old fashioned way in which women were treated.

So for me........I am truly old school. But I truly dislike and am not old fashioned.

Actually, if old fashioned = asexual, victorian, patriarchal oppression then I'm right there with you! But I think perhaps that was mostly a socially acceptable facade. The 'passing' front that everyone presented but most didn't live.

Not having lived through it though, it's complete speculation on my part. I can only imagine though that that embodiment of OF as 'prudishness' had to have been more prevalent in heterosexual lives than in the Butch/femme community where waiting for marriage and having sex to procreate simply wasn't a part of the equation.

And while us femmes have always gotten positive (if unwanted) feedback about our desirability, I cling strongly to the ideal that my foremothers carried within their very core the knowledge that it was up to them to show the butches of the world that they too were sexual forces to be reckoned with. That they were wanted. Needed. Craved. Utterly desired beyond all reason. It was in intricate part of the dance.

I refuse to believe that respect and/or sexual hunger was lacking for either party 'back in the day.'

Converse
01-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Many relate OFOS as being about the 1950ís B-F communities, who were faced with hostility from a very conservative mainstream society, lending itself to a time of much violence Ė while others draw on the periods prior to that when Butch identity concerned itself with courtesy, chivalry and strength without violence. One context is about oppression, while the other is about codes of behaviour.

We can take almost anything out of context, assigning a meaning that helps to legitimise our argument, but what I think matters is intent.

Do I stay cold so that she doesnít when I offer her my coat, open and hold the door for her, stand when she does, light her cigarette, curtail my language and expect others to do the same when they are around her, compliment, carry whatís heavyÖ because I think she isnít capable, believe that she is so fragile that her sensibilities would never recover from a personal affront, because I believe I am superior? Or do I do it to acknowledge her importance, to place myself second in her presence- Is my intention to try to make her way a little more comfortable in the world or is it to oppress?

For good or for bad, in mainstream society a Butch is rarely inconspicuous, and a Femme is noticed but rarely seen. As a Butch I will honour her, and do what I can to remove the cloak of invisibility, to allow her to be seen as the woman who is deserving of respect and admiration, to be seen as a Femme.

My observations of the world are that the B-F community is becoming one of the last bastions where chivalry still remains. For me, I am happy to be considered old fashioned if the alternative is, as I see around me, a solo dance with everyone on the floor vying for the spotlight.

AnaLee
01-23-2011, 01:30 AM
Old school femme here, dropping in to say hello. It's late - I'll be back soon to chat with you fabulous OS folks.
Sweet Thoughts,
Ana

socialjustice_fsu
01-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Many relate OFOS as being about the 1950ís B-F communities, who were faced with hostility from a very conservative mainstream society, lending itself to a time of much violence Ė while others draw on the periods prior to that when Butch identity concerned itself with courtesy, chivalry and strength without violence. One context is about oppression, while the other is about codes of behaviour.

We can take almost anything out of context, assigning a meaning that helps to legitimise our argument, but what I think matters is intent.

Do I stay cold so that she doesnít when I offer her my coat, open and hold the door for her, stand when she does, light her cigarette, curtail my language and expect others to do the same when they are around her, compliment, carry whatís heavyÖ because I think she isnít capable, believe that she is so fragile that her sensibilities would never recover from a personal affront, because I believe I am superior? Or do I do it to acknowledge her importance, to place myself second in her presence- Is my intention to try to make her way a little more comfortable in the world or is it to oppress?

For good or for bad, in mainstream society a Butch is rarely inconspicuous, and a Femme is noticed but rarely seen. As a Butch I will honour her, and do what I can to remove the cloak of invisibility, to allow her to be seen as the woman who is deserving of respect and admiration, to be seen as a Femme.

My observations of the world are that the B-F community is becoming one of the last bastions where chivalry still remains. For me, I am happy to be considered old fashioned if the alternative is, as I see around me, a solo dance with everyone on the floor vying for the spotlight.


As with all of your posts, Converse, your point of view is refreshing and spot on. I believe you articulate what many others wish they could. Well written.

sj-fsu

Martina
01-23-2011, 02:06 PM
i was at my Dominants' house recently, and They were getting read to go out. It was a dress up occasion. When it was time to leave, Sir held the door for Ma'am. As She stepped through, She said, "How do i look?" Sir replied, "Lovely." It was just a moment, one like a dozen others that week, i am sure, but it caught my eye. It was beautiful.

i like our dynamic best when it is unstudied, when it is less performative, though that can be fun. But that moment when we recognize and appreciate one another -- it's so good.

Miss Scarlett
01-23-2011, 06:18 PM
Wonderful post Converse. Thank you.

Being treated like a lady really brings out the woman in me. His gentleman draws her out and sheís very sensitive to him, unconsciously/automatically respondingÖthings just flow naturally. This is a little hard to verbalize Ė but it also makes me feel different. Very feminine and not in a fru fru sense; I can feel just as feminine in jeans or sweats as in the frilliest of dresses. Itís a yin/yang thing and very beautiful.

OS Butch
02-12-2011, 06:54 PM
Good evening. Thought I'd stop by and see what is going on.

OSB

MadiT
02-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Hello everyone....stopping in to listen and learn :)

OS Butch
02-12-2011, 09:08 PM
Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

Miss Scarlett
02-12-2011, 10:40 PM
Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

I always thought so.

Lynn
02-12-2011, 10:47 PM
Evening MadiT.

I have been thinking about Old school and how it seems out of style for some. I wonder why. What is so Old Fashion / Old School about chivalry, honor and commitment? Isn't that the way people should treat people?

I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

OS Butch
02-13-2011, 12:49 AM
I can't speak for how others view Old School, but I will speak as to how I view my own behavior as Old School values pertain to me.

I bolded the part I have issues with your post. Because I open a door, I don't believe it perpetuates the view that women are weak. I do this for another Butches as well as my father or anyone that I respect and honor. I will graciously accept an open door from anyone whether they be Butch or Femme. I am sure there are those that would balk at this.....Maybe I am a progressive Butch.

The things I do as an Old Schooler are purely based on how I respect and honor those around me. I would hope that it is the same for others. All of my values and how I move in this world, I would hope, would never be interpreted for another being weak, silly or any less of a person.

I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

Lynn
02-13-2011, 01:17 AM
OS Butch, I wasn't in any way meaning to imply that you or anyone who opens doors, etc., thinks a femme is weak. In fact, I was agreeing with you.

I said,

"The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang."

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I think we see eye to eye, if I understand you correctly.

OS Butch
02-13-2011, 08:25 AM
I totally misunderstood what you were saying. I suppose it was my blinders were on too tight.

Over the years I have been ridiculed for being Old School. Old School is sometimes so misunderstood and in fact I don't believe it is Old Fashioned at all, it is the way it should be the way people treat people.

It always amazes when when I am on a subway or bus and there is an elderly, pregnant woman or a handicapped person standing, that people would let them stand rather than give up their seat. I can just feel the stares when I do give up my seat. But that probably is more because I am a Butch, not because of the courteous action.


OS Butch, I wasn't in any way meaning to imply that you or anyone who opens doors, etc., thinks a femme is weak. In fact, I was agreeing with you.

I said,

"The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang."

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I think we see eye to eye, if I understand you correctly.

Lynn
02-13-2011, 11:32 AM
It always amazes when when I am on a subway or bus and there is an elderly, pregnant woman or a handicapped person standing, that people would let them stand rather than give up their seat. I can just feel the stares when I do give up my seat. But that probably is more because I am a Butch, not because of the courteous action.

I agree--I do the same thing. The stares are probably because you were considerate enough to think of it, and they weren't.

OS Butch
02-20-2011, 09:04 PM
Lynn, After misunderstanding, I reread your post. I red lettered a portion.

Why? What is it about Old School that would keep folks from participating?

I really don't think I am any different than any other Butch, though it has been pointed out to me that there is a lack of general manners.

With manners on my mind, I would like to know, what manners seem to be lacking in the Butches from the Femmes' point of view. What are the top 3 things a Femme wants to see when going out on a first date?



I never felt that I could participate in a thread about OFOS. But, some of the posts have helped me pull the threads on a few of the things that resonate with me. I agree, OS Butch, that people should treat one another with chivalry, honor, and commitment.

In my ideal relationship (not dissimilar to the real one), there are all of these qualities. The thing is, for me, the giving goes in both directions. The door holding, the compliments and admiration, the romancing are all reciprocal. Nothing about this undermines the reality that she revels in her butchness and I am completely feminine. It is indeed the yin and yang. It's what I love and cherish in a relationship that I can have with a butch woman. There is nothing expected or automatic about what we do. It's created every day, out of a great sense of gratitude that we can have the type of relationship we want, rather than the one that society or religion try to dictate.

To me, there isn't anything old fashioned about the expression of shared values. But, as has been mentioned, I also don't find anything redeeming in perpetuating views of women as weak, childish, or otherwise less than.

Lynn
02-20-2011, 09:29 PM
Lynn, After misunderstanding, I reread your post. I red lettered a portion.

Why? What is it about Old School that would keep folks from participating?

For me, I just never saw myself as fitting into a discussion of OFOS. I don't think of myself as old fashioned, and I don't consider manners and consideration to be old school--I hope they're enduring and timeless. My views of OFOS are probably too stereotypical, but that's why I like to visit threads and read and learn.

I can't speak for other folks, though.

OS Butch
02-20-2011, 09:41 PM
Thank you, Lynn. I have been feeling the same and wondering. I don't think I am old fashioned, which is why my preference is old school......which still doesn't feel right because I would hope that my values would not ever go out of vogue!

For me, I just never saw myself as fitting into a discussion of OFOS. I don't think of myself as old fashioned, and I don't consider manners and consideration to be old school--I hope they're enduring and timeless. My views of OFOS are probably too stereotypical, but that's why I like to visit threads and read and learn.

I can't speak for other folks, though.

LBgirl
03-06-2011, 11:27 PM
I really don't think I am any different than any other Butch, though it has been pointed out to me that there is a lack of general manners.
With manners on my mind, I would like to know, what manners seem to be lacking in the Butches from the Femmes' point of view. What are the top 3 things a Femme wants to see when going out on a first date?

I've stood in the rain waiting for a group of (young) andro-butch girls to a) stop talking and actually go through the open door b) stomp their cig butts on the ground and leave it there and c) look at me waiting and still dilly-dally their way inside. So yes, there is definitely a lack of general manners.

My late partner was Old School. I find that most womyn, butch or otherwise, have lost their sense of chivalry. Here are my top 3:

1) She used to not only help me put my coat on, but she would gently pull my hair from beneath the collar, spread it attractively down my back and straighten my collar if needed. I often got a gentle peck on the back of my neck during the process. In return, I adored her as if she was the most wonderful, most attentive, best dressed, well-mannered, most thoughtful human being who ever walked the earth (and she will always be that to me).

2) She didn't rush to the prize. Our 1st date was leisurely, comfortable and... well... gentle. She wasn't looking for that opportunity to "make her move", she wasn't trying to kiss me on the 1st date, she didn't make sexually explicit innuendos and she kept everything at an affectionate but classy level. She would graze my hand with hers, with a a soft caress instead of trying to capture it like it was a flag to be conquered.

3) She paid attention to ME. Sure we like to hear that we're lovely, sexy, or that we "turn you on", but what's better is to hear that and to be heard, too. Don't talk over me, don't randomly segue into different topics as if you were doing a stream-of-consciousness recital. Actually focus on what I say, not on whatever point you wanted to make next.

Sorry if this is long-winded and/or preachy, I just feel very strongly about this subject.

OS Butch
03-06-2011, 11:49 PM
Not long winded at all LBgirl. Thank you for posting your top 3!

I do think the assisting with the coat and hair adjusting is one of those very intimate things a Butch can do for a Femme. I believe this kind of doting is missing to often and that it should be alive and well.

OSB

I've stood in the rain waiting for a group of (young) andro-butch girls to a) stop talking and actually go through the open door b) stomp their cig butts on the ground and leave it there and c) look at me waiting and still dilly-dally their way inside. So yes, there is definitely a lack of general manners.

My late partner was Old School. I find that most womyn, butch or otherwise, have lost their sense of chivalry. Here are my top 3:

1) She used to not only help me put my coat on, but she would gently pull my hair from beneath the collar, spread it attractively down my back and straighten my collar if needed. I often got a gentle peck on the back of my neck during the process. In return, I adored her as if she was the most wonderful, most attentive, best dressed, well-mannered, most thoughtful human being who ever walked the earth (and she will always be that to me).

2) She didn't rush to the prize. Our 1st date was leisurely, comfortable and... well... gentle. She wasn't looking for that opportunity to "make her move", she wasn't trying to kiss me on the 1st date, she didn't make sexually explicit innuendos and she kept everything at an affectionate but classy level. She would graze my hand with hers, with a a soft caress instead of trying to capture it like it was a flag to be conquered.

3) She paid attention to ME. Sure we like to hear that we're lovely, sexy, or that we "turn you on", but what's better is to hear that and to be heard, too. Don't talk over me, don't randomly segue into different topics as if you were doing a stream-of-consciousness recital. Actually focus on what I say, not on whatever point you wanted to make next.

Sorry if this is long-winded and/or preachy, I just feel very strongly about this subject.

LBgirl
03-07-2011, 11:00 AM
Not long winded at all LBgirl. Thank you for posting your top 3!

I do think the assisting with the coat and hair adjusting is one of those very intimate things a Butch can do for a Femme. I believe this kind of doting is missing to often and that it should be alive and well.

OSB

She was also from the South, a true Southern Gentleman. I remember the first time she did that for me... She had just put my coat on me, I reached up to pull my hair out and she gently grasped my elbows and put them down to my side, whispering in my ear, "Please let me." I felt a catch in my throat and my knees got weak. There's something to be said about that Southern Charm.

undone
03-11-2011, 12:33 AM
LBgirl,

I think you have stated it with charm and grace, perfectly.

I think in todays life or at least what i have come across in my wanders, is a loss for the gentle reasons behind the curtsies, it seems to be done when done at all for sometimes less than genuine reasons

LBgirl
03-28-2011, 03:11 PM
:missing: OFOS Butches are hard to find. Too many punks out there claiming to be "gentlemen" when they really just need a good spanking. My 2 cents, lol.

DomnNC
03-28-2011, 04:51 PM
:missing: OFOS Butches are hard to find. Too many punks out there claiming to be "gentlemen" when they really just need a good spanking. My 2 cents, lol.

Chuckles, that gave me a lil laugh, thanks. I consider myself to be a gentleman. I open doors for the ladies I might happen to be out and about with. I wait until they are seated and if need be if it is a chair type sitting, help them with their chair. If it's winter time then I help them get their coat on. If it's chilly out and they have forgotten to wear a warm jacket I've been known to give them mine and insist that they take it. I will let them order first in restaurants unless they wish that I order for them, then I do that as well. If I'm riding a bus or some other similiar vehicle, if a lady is standing I will give her my seat. Those are just a few of the things I do.

But you're right, I think that as the generations have passed that being taught manners, politeness and what it is to be a gentleman or a lady has been tossed by the wayside by the mememe generations.

PumaJ
03-28-2011, 04:57 PM
If being over a certain age and being of the opinion that using good manners shows respect for another makes one "old school", then I surely qualify! LOL!

Personally, I've always found it awkward when someone tries to help me on with my coat. I just am kind of a "dork" in that area and always manage to somehow get tangled up:-( However, I do appreciate it when anyone opens a door for me, or holds open a door for me. That's why I do so for others as well. But, there is something very different going on than mere manners when a Butch is the one getting the door for a Femme.

The wonderful Butches I've had the honor & pleasure of being partnered with in my life have been feminists, as I am. Yet, the wanting to open doors for me, hold my chair out, and all of the other gracious gestures they've done for me, just always seem to spring from their very beingness. Seems to me to be a quality that has somehow been encoded in them. Just as graciously allowing and receiving such gifts has been encoded in me, as a Femme. I'm definitely not the same way in my interactions with men, meaning I do my best to not allow or encourage such actions. Not that I want to be treated rudely. I just don't want to be treated differently by a man just because I'm a woman.

Yet, I would never stop a Butch from opening the door for me, or "laying her/hys coat" across the puddle for me to walk across. In my perception, we are both energetically empowered during such an exchange. It is part of the dance we do together. The dance that creates and completes a circle of feminine/masculine power between us that enriches, nourishes, and empowers each of us. That being said, my personal feminism comes out when I do the same sorts of gestures for the Butches I've been with. The fact that doing so often takes them by surprise is kind of fun and I've used it as a way to be playful.

Well, I could on a bit on that theme, I think, but I won't do that here. I will end by saying that I'm all for good manners. I believe they are a key factor in the civilized behavior of human beings, serving as a type of social lubricant that allows us to get along more easily with each other in our busy, hectic and increasingly crowded cities.

Off my soap box now.

OS Butch
03-28-2011, 05:37 PM
Well, LB, I might add the are Femmes out there claiming to be OFOS and are just plain OHM (Old High Maintenance ) :)

I really must point out that claiming a gentleman is a wide range of possibilities.....From Not farting or scratching inappropriate places to the Ward Clever being waited on hand and foot types.

I was told I am not OS. The truth of it was I was not her type of old school, she wanted Ward Clever type, which is not me.....I am not at the other end of the spectrum either:) I am in the middle.

For me it is very much the ying and yang, the dance. I am just likely to bring a cup of coffee or tea to my lady as she would for me. It the compliment of being joined. Her accepting me for doing things she is quite capable of doing, but appreciates that I get great joy out of doing them for her.

So, be specific when entertaining a Butchly sort to determine what kind of OFOS you really like.

My 2 cents:)
OSB

:missing: OFOS Butches are hard to find. Too many punks out there claiming to be "gentlemen" when they really just need a good spanking. My 2 cents, lol.

LBgirl
03-28-2011, 09:01 PM
Well, LB, I might add the are Femmes out there claiming to be OFOS and are just plain OHM (Old High Maintenance ) :)

I really must point out that claiming a gentleman is a wide range of possibilities.....From Not farting or scratching inappropriate places to the Ward Clever being waited on hand and foot types.

I was told I am not OS. The truth of it was I was not her type of old school, she wanted Ward Clever type, which is not me.....I am not at the other end of the spectrum either:) I am in the middle.

For me it is very much the ying and yang, the dance. I am just likely to bring a cup of coffee or tea to my lady as she would for me. It the compliment of being joined. Her accepting me for doing things she is quite capable of doing, but appreciates that I get great joy out of doing them for her.

So, be specific when entertaining a Butchly sort to determine what kind of OFOS you really like.

My 2 cents:)
OSB

I am in total agreement with you. It's not the act/s that impress me, it's the consideration and the dynamics of interaction that occur. Someone could hold a door for me and still be a complete cad. Ward Cleaver would be too boring. Now Ward Cleaver with a healthy dose of leather sprinkled in is a whole different story...

OS Butch
08-01-2011, 07:44 AM
Good morning and Happy day to all. It has been months since I past through here. I trust all is well with folks.

I was thinking that my identity as OFOS is outdated. Old fashioned.....because it use to be how one was suppose to treat people? What kind of advancement is that in our society?

Shouldn't everyone be Old Fashioned?

I travel quite a bit between Virginia and Texas. Funny how things are different.

I went to a race track in West Virginia. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised how many people did not stand and how many men did not remove their hats.

I went to a rodeo in Texas. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised that EVERYONE stood and not 1 cowboy hat was on any head.

I know that I will continue to do my random acts of kindness as a rule of how I live and how I treat and respect others. If we all did these things, I hope it would catch on and it wouldn't be old fashioned or old school anymore.

1ladyface
01-11-2012, 01:22 AM
As I was reading some of the previous posts about the loving actions of OFOS butches it struck me that being so respectful and sometimes even worshipful (is that the right word?) of femininity is, unfortunately radical in this world. As in, radically, eye-catchingly different from the behavior of the majority.

Just my two cents.

ArkansasPiscesGrrl
01-11-2012, 03:39 PM
She was also from the South, a true Southern Gentleman. I remember the first time she did that for me... She had just put my coat on me, I reached up to pull my hair out and she gently grasped my elbows and put them down to my side, whispering in my ear, "Please let me." I felt a catch in my throat and my knees got weak. There's something to be said about that Southern Charm.

I got the same catch in my throat when I read this. Oh my...

clay
01-11-2012, 04:00 PM
I hope to never, ever lose my very own Southern Charm/gentleness....grin....and THANK YOU, Ladies~~~

kittygrrl
01-11-2012, 06:36 PM
wish there was more activity in here..i don't care much for labels but some definitely fit ..people who understand (who i am) are smart and it's just hot when i find someone who gets me

genghisfawn
01-16-2012, 08:44 AM
So there's LBGirl who mentions disingenuous punks who need spankings and OS Butch who mentions Old High Maintenance femmes... I've dealt with the former and I am certainly not the latter, but I still can't exactly describe what makes me OF/OS in a B-F context.

I also remember that just because it's never popularly discussed, there have been troubles, discords and abuses along the B-F continuum which people conveniently forget. Just like some of my fellow neo-traditionals*, I hope we don't forget that nothing is ever perfect because individual things and people are not perfect, either. But if we strive for an ideal because it gives us peace and comfort, we should continue to do it and welcome!

I am old-fashioned. I like my computer but I prefer my gramophone to a stereo. I prefer skirts to trousers. I'll take The Andrews Sisters over The Pussycat Dolls. I prefer cooking at home to doing takeout... but most of all I prefer mutual respect, honesty and loyalty to any sort of action or label.

These things seem to be lacking. I recently chased off one of those aforementioned punks (without a spanking... mustn't dirty my gloves) after a month or so of dating simply because hy was old enough to know better but too selfish to care. Hy claimed to be OS, and perhaps I didn't know hym well enough to understand how hy reckoned so, but perhaps hys definition of OS and my definition of OF are simply not compatible.

*Neo-traditional: A way of life which takes forgotten lessons of the past (modest dress, make-do-and-mend, stiff upper lip, courtesy and community, etc.) and employs them with lessons from the present (anti-homophobia, anti-racism, anti-sexism, etc.)

kittygrrl
01-16-2012, 10:52 AM
Good morning and Happy day to all. It has been months since I past through here. I trust all is well with folks.

I was thinking that my identity as OFOS is outdated. Old fashioned.....because it use to be how one was suppose to treat people? What kind of advancement is that in our society?

Shouldn't everyone be Old Fashioned?

I travel quite a bit between Virginia and Texas. Funny how things are different.

I went to a race track in West Virginia. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised how many people did not stand and how many men did not remove their hats.

I went to a rodeo in Texas. A woman came out and sang our Nation Anthem. I stood and placed my hand over my heart, didn't sing cuz I can't carry a tune in a bucket. I was surprised that EVERYONE stood and not 1 cowboy hat was on any head.

I know that I will continue to do my random acts of kindness as a rule of how I live and how I treat and respect others. If we all did these things, I hope it would catch on and it wouldn't be old fashioned or old school anymore.

Manners and chivalry are never outdated..Maybe we are all a dying breed and when we are gone the neos will take over..i suppose that's ok but the extinction of this beautiful dynamic is hard to think about. Surely the gods will provide a tiny space for us somewhere in the universe.

clay
01-16-2012, 11:15 AM
Manners and chivalry are never outdated..Maybe we are all a dying breed and when we are gone the neos will take over..i suppose that's ok but the extinction of this beautiful dynamic is hard to think about. Surely the gods will provide a tiny space for us somewhere in the universe.



so true, kittygrrrl. Manners, chivalry, respect, courtesy, and being attentive & kind are qualities that make me OFOS. As someone said..."walk the walk and talk the talk".
I tend to place my palm under her elbow if we are walking in someplace...OR offer her my arm, pull out her chair, and even order for her IF I am certain of her tastes.
If walking on a sidewalk, I always take the outside, place my hand at the small of her back ever so lightly, and put my other hand under her elbow if pathway is uneven.
I help her take off her coat, and don it afterwards..and even so much as that small, genuine yet ever so innocently intimate pulling her hair out and fanning it just so off the collar....grinz...
After the date, I walk her to her door, ask if I may kiss top of her hand..and then watch her safely in...even using her key to unlock her door for her..and make sure door is closed and secure before I leave!
It isn't about the $$ BUT the genuine sincerity and quality of a date and using my manners, courtesy, respect, and chivalry.....these cost no money and are PRICELESS!
I am so OF I prefer to call her...initially anyway...and I will text her or call her the next day or so....just to tell her what a wonderful evening I had and how much I enjoyed the pleasure of her company!!
These attributes should be present with us....all places and at all times...mine continue even into a LTR...these aren't just for dates and such...they are with me FOR LIFE! just my .02...smiles

kittygrrl
01-16-2012, 11:49 AM
so true, kittygrrrl. Manners, chivalry, respect, courtesy, and being attentive & kind are qualities that make me OFOS. As someone said..."walk the walk and talk the talk".
I tend to place my palm under her elbow if we are walking in someplace...OR offer her my arm, pull out her chair, and even order for her IF I am certain of her tastes.
If walking on a sidewalk, I always take the outside, place my hand at the small of her back ever so lightly, and put my other hand under her elbow if pathway is uneven.
I help her take off her coat, and don it afterwards..and even so much as that small, genuine yet ever so innocently intimate pulling her hair out and fanning it just so off the collar....grinz...
After the date, I walk her to her door, ask if I may kiss top of her hand..and then watch her safely in...even using her key to unlock her door for her..and make sure door is closed and secure before I leave!
It isn't about the $$ BUT the genuine sincerity and quality of a date and using my manners, courtesy, respect, and chivalry.....these cost no money and are PRICELESS!
I am so OF I prefer to call her...initially anyway...and I will text her or call her the next day or so....just to tell her what a wonderful evening I had and how much I enjoyed the pleasure of her company!!
These attributes should be present with us....all places and at all times...mine continue even into a LTR...these aren't just for dates and such...they are with me FOR LIFE! just my .02...smiles

This is perfection (to me)..it's not about going thru the motions of doing what someone (OS femme) might expect..it's all about believing in what you are doing and owning it (as part of who you are)..being otherwise is misleading..if that's not who you are, then don't try to pull it off..but if you're trying to figure it out if it feels right (for you)then that is exciting and it would be a privilege to have hym take my hand.

1ladyface
01-16-2012, 03:45 PM
:nothingtoadd:

I've been relatively quiet but I just want to say that this is my most favorite thread to lurk! :curtain: Thanks for the good reads.

:thumbsup:

SweetJane
01-16-2012, 04:04 PM
I got the same catch in my throat when I read this. Oh my...

Arkansas, I teared up when I read it....Yeah. I'd like one of those, please.

1QuirkyKiwi
01-16-2012, 04:13 PM
I canít say if Iím OFOS or not, simply because I was raised within the Maori culture where politeness, respect, consideration and loyalty are common place; even amongst family members.

Very often Iím told that Iím painfully politeÖ.itís a part of who I am. Iím proud to be well mannered and courteous regardless of what others think.

genghisfawn
01-24-2012, 01:53 AM
Where oh where is my OF/OS butch? They say chivalry isn't dead, they say old-fashioned isn't out of fashion, etc. but where is hy?

:)

Never mind me and my whining. I'm struggling with broken heat, a broken toilet and not enough blankets. If I could find hym, at least I wouldn't be cold!

Bootsandheels
01-24-2012, 03:54 AM
so true, kittygrrrl. Manners, chivalry, respect, courtesy, and being attentive & kind are qualities that make me OFOS. As someone said..."walk the walk and talk the talk".
I tend to place my palm under her elbow if we are walking in someplace...OR offer her my arm, pull out her chair, and even order for her IF I am certain of her tastes.
If walking on a sidewalk, I always take the outside, place my hand at the small of her back ever so lightly, and put my other hand under her elbow if pathway is uneven.
I help her take off her coat, and don it afterwards..and even so much as that small, genuine yet ever so innocently intimate pulling her hair out and fanning it just so off the collar....grinz...
After the date, I walk her to her door, ask if I may kiss top of her hand..and then watch her safely in...even using her key to unlock her door for her..and make sure door is closed and secure before I leave!
It isn't about the $$ BUT the genuine sincerity and quality of a date and using my manners, courtesy, respect, and chivalry.....these cost no money and are PRICELESS!
I am so OF I prefer to call her...initially anyway...and I will text her or call her the next day or so....just to tell her what a wonderful evening I had and how much I enjoyed the pleasure of her company!!
These attributes should be present with us....all places and at all times...mine continue even into a LTR...these aren't just for dates and such...they are with me FOR LIFE! just my .02...smiles

This is perfection (to me)..it's not about going thru the motions of doing what someone (OS femme) might expect..it's all about believing in what you are doing and owning it (as part of who you are)..being otherwise is misleading..if that's not who you are, then don't try to pull it off..but if you're trying to figure it out if it feels right (for you)then that is exciting and it would be a privilege to have hym take my hand.


*Struts in so you all can hear me coming...;) Oh can I get an "AMEN" here?! THANK YOU for sharing everyone! OFOS is SO misunderstood and mistaken out here in the pacific NW...the butches seem terrified of me or something...haven't they ever seen or been around a real lady with integrity, honesty and a femme who knows how to treat them like gold and drop them to their knees with one well placed touch? Good Lord...I'm about to lose faith and heart. However...I will NOT lose these vital 'ingredients' that make me who I am...a fierce sexy OFOS femme with high standards who knows what she wants and needs and will not settle for less. Maybe that means I'll be alone but that's ok...I'd rather be alone than settle for anything less than a gentlmyn butch! *Curtsies and exits stage left...:eyebat:.

clay
01-24-2012, 09:28 AM
*Struts in so you all can hear me coming...;) Oh can I get an "AMEN" here?! THANK YOU for sharing everyone! OFOS is SO misunderstood and mistaken out here in the pacific NW...the butches seem terrified of me or something...haven't they ever seen or been around a real lady with integrity, honesty and a femme who knows how to treat them like gold and drop them to their knees with one well placed touch? Good Lord...I'm about to lose faith and heart. However...I will NOT lose these vital 'ingredients' that make me who I am...a fierce sexy OFOS femme with high standards who knows what she wants and needs and will not settle for less. Maybe that means I'll be alone but that's ok...I'd rather be alone than settle for anything less than a gentlmyn butch! *Curtsies and exits stage left...:eyebat:.

Bootsie...YOU are an amazingly beautiful soul...your presence illuminates the room....as does your impeccable manners, refined elegance, a true lady in every sense of the word, and your aura...of how you are who you are...and apologize to no one..you OWN you...you are "felt" long before you enter a room...powerful, sensuous, and so decadently elegant! Have a cup of mexican hot chocolate, gorgeous!!! THANKS for the validation, the affirmations, and being YOU, my friend!! You exude "old fashioned" and "respect"..you carry YOU well.. WORK it Girl!!! bows and tip brim of fedora to all the ladies......Clay

1QuirkyKiwi
01-24-2012, 10:41 AM
I love it when K gently kisses my hands and forehead and leads me gracefully to the table or door, etc, before doing the gentle(wo)manly thing of pulling out the chair or opening the door.

Yesterday, she escorted my to the Uni reception, wished me ĎGood luckí and waited in the car with a book to read. Whilst helping me in and out of the car hy help my coat.

Itís too early to say whether this is her Army training and the rank she held of Major, or if itís how she was also raisedÖ.itís fun discovering! LOL!

Is this chivalry common place among veterans of the Military, or is it just a typical British Army thing?

Firedance
04-27-2012, 09:00 AM
*Fire hugs her Fierce-Femme-Sista as she exits.*

"Amen, Sister. I know you and Clay have heard this before, but I'm going to say my piece."

*Fire confidently strides to the mic in her black strappy heels, with just the slights swish of her hips, and proclaims...*


"Give me a Butch that knows how to kiss the back of my hand when we meet,
and I'll give you one entranced Femme!


Pull out my chair,
and as I sit, I'll look over my shoulder and smile, just for you.


Open my door,
and I'll step out with enough grace to take your breath away.


Place your hand in the small of my back,
and I'll shudder with delight. My body will react to the smallest pressure, and we will walk together seamlessly.


Offer me your arm,
and I shall take it with pride, and walk just suggestively enough that everyone will look at us, and see how happy I am to be with you.


Give me your respect,
and I will give you mine, and everywhere we go, people will stare, and wish they were us."

~Fire.


*Struts in so you all can hear me coming...;) Oh can I get an "AMEN" here?! THANK YOU for sharing everyone! OFOS is SO misunderstood and mistaken out here in the pacific NW...the butches seem terrified of me or something...haven't they ever seen or been around a real lady with integrity, honesty and a femme who knows how to treat them like gold and drop them to their knees with one well placed touch? Good Lord...I'm about to lose faith and heart. However...I will NOT lose these vital 'ingredients' that make me who I am...a fierce sexy OFOS femme with high standards who knows what she wants and needs and will not settle for less. Maybe that means I'll be alone but that's ok...I'd rather be alone than settle for anything less than a gentlmyn butch! *Curtsies and exits stage left...:eyebat:.

gaea
04-27-2012, 12:41 PM
*Fire hugs her Fierce-Femme-Sista as she exits.*

"Amen, Sister. I know you and Clay have heard this before, but I'm going to say my piece."

*Fire confidently strides to the mic in her black strappy heels, with just the slights swish of her hips, and proclaims...*


"Give me a Butch that knows how to kiss the back of my hand when we meet,
and I'll give you one entranced Femme!


Pull out my chair,
and as I sit, I'll look over my shoulder and smile, just for you.


Open my door,
and I'll step out with enough grace to take your breath away.


Place your hand in the small of my back,
and I'll shudder with delight. My body will react to the smallest pressure, and we will walk together seamlessly.


Offer me your arm,
and I shall take it with pride, and walk just suggestively enough that everyone will look at us, and see how happy I am to be with you.


Give me your respect,
and I will give you mine, and everywhere we go, people will stare, and wish they were us."

~Fire.

Beautiful....

Jess
04-27-2012, 03:07 PM
Howdy everyone.. smiles and tips hat...

I haven't participated in this thread, but if it new life gets breathed into it, I would like to. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to find truly like minded souls out here and I very much appreciate the thoughts/ ideals/ emotions I have read here.

An old soul from an old school embracing today's world... I can't say how just knowing you all are out there living it too makes my load less burdensome and the road less lonely.

Thank you all. :rrose:

Justin
04-27-2012, 04:54 PM
*Fire hugs her Fierce-Femme-Sista as she exits.*

"Amen, Sister. I know you and Clay have heard this before, but I'm going to say my piece."

*Fire confidently strides to the mic in her black strappy heels, with just the slights swish of her hips, and proclaims...*


"Give me a Butch that knows how to kiss the back of my hand when we meet,
and I'll give you one entranced Femme!


Pull out my chair,
and as I sit, I'll look over my shoulder and smile, just for you.


Open my door,
and I'll step out with enough grace to take your breath away.


Place your hand in the small of my back,
and I'll shudder with delight. My body will react to the smallest pressure, and we will walk together seamlessly.


Offer me your arm,
and I shall take it with pride, and walk just suggestively enough that everyone will look at us, and see how happy I am to be with you.


Give me your respect,
and I will give you mine, and everywhere we go, people will stare, and wish they were us."

~Fire.

This is very well said !!! I love it :)

How did I miss this thread?......oh yea work and SCHOOL LOL

I am very much Old School and somewhat Old Fashioned in that I do believe in manners and respect. There is just something within me that makes me that way, its just natural and what makes me feel right. Its something that sometimes I feel has gotten lost through the years through cultural changes and our style of dynamic (Butch-femme) becoming less popular and more of the misunderstood sect.

Have a great night all !!!

starryeyes
04-27-2012, 06:56 PM
This is very well said !!! I love it :)

How did I miss this thread?......oh yea work and SCHOOL LOL

I am very much Old School and somewhat Old Fashioned in that I do believe in manners and respect. There is just something within me that makes me that way, its just natural and what makes me feel right. Its something that sometimes I feel has gotten lost through the years through cultural changes and our style of dynamic (Butch-femme) becoming less popular and more of the misunderstood sect.

Have a great night all !!!

You are definitely old school and have stolen my heart. I never thought I would meet someone who treats me the way you do. You make me feel so loved, special and beautiful everyday. I can only hope I make you feel the same. <3

mariamma
04-28-2012, 12:37 AM
Bootsie...YOU are an amazingly beautiful soul...your presence illuminates the room....as does your impeccable manners, refined elegance, a true lady in every sense of the word, and your aura...of how you are who you are...and apologize to no one..you OWN you...you are "felt" long before you enter a room...powerful, sensuous, and so decadently elegant! Have a cup of mexican hot chocolate, gorgeous!!! THANKS for the validation, the affirmations, and being YOU, my friend!! You exude "old fashioned" and "respect"..you carry YOU well.. WORK it Girl!!! bows and tip brim of fedora to all the ladies......Clay

Such a gentlemyn claybaby :) Keep it up. Keep setting the bar for what an honorable butch/boi/stud is to us gratefully femmes.

Firedance
05-07-2012, 03:41 PM
So I have a question for ya'll.

As a Femme, I know OFOS when I see it. But I've been wondering how my counterparts recognize an OFOS Femme when you meet one?

~Fire.

~ocean
05-07-2012, 03:44 PM
hi ((( fire ))) from another femme , I've always felt the energy ~

OS Butch
05-07-2012, 08:15 PM
So I have a question for ya'll.

As a Femme, I know OFOS when I see it. But I've been wondering how my counterparts recognize an OFOS Femme when you meet one?

~Fire.

Actions speak louder than words. For me, I watch to see what the reaction is to my actions. Getting to a door before me is a little hint;)

I have just about stopped using OFOS because it seems so misunderstood almost as if it is a bad thing...I dunno. So, there might be Femmes out there that don't id as OFOS, just as there are a number of Butchly sorts that don't like the term OFOS.

Leigh
05-07-2012, 08:22 PM
Its nice to know that OFOS butches do still exist :)

Firedance
05-07-2012, 09:18 PM
Actions speak louder than words. For me, I watch to see what the reaction is to my actions. Getting to a door before me is a little hint;)

I have just about stopped using OFOS because it seems so misunderstood almost as if it is a bad thing...I dunno. So, there might be Femmes out there that don't id as OFOS, just as there are a number of Butchly sorts that don't like the term OFOS.


I almost had a little heart attack there! So, to clarify, have you almost stopped using the term, "OFOS", or have you almost stopped using the manners that OFOS refers to?

... Please, please tell me it's the first, and not the second option!

clay
05-07-2012, 09:32 PM
My "OFOS" will never go away..it is ingrained into my soul and fabric and being.
I understand what OSB is saying...using those letters to describe oneself..well...sometimes is viewed in a negative way.
BUT what I have inside of me..doesn't ever leave..it is as deeply a part of me as is my heart and my blood...it is vital to who I am..and it doesn't have to be visible for it to be present..and my OFOS femme does indeed "feel it", sense it, and reap that energy from me...
For me, OFOS is not a part of the "good old days" or the 50's or about a woman being "less than" in MY world...it IS about being with manners, courtesies, respect, considerations, cavalierly manners, equality, voice,and many other things that will always be a part of my fabric and morals and has been part of me from my earliest days of being....just my .02.
I do like to open doors, pull out chairs, walk with my arm in small of her back, help her don/doff her coat, and walk on outside of her with elbow cupped in my hand..among so many other things...this is just what is part of me...my personal stuff I own...so much more to share BUT I do have to be in bed now..and up early....have a greta night...

kittygrrl
05-07-2012, 09:57 PM
Actions speak louder than words. For me, I watch to see what the reaction is to my actions. Getting to a door before me is a little hint;)

I have just about stopped using OFOS

please don't. You're among friends here:bouquet:

Miss Scarlett
05-08-2012, 04:56 AM
My "OFOS" will never go away..it is ingrained into my soul and fabric and being.
I understand what OSB is saying...using those letters to describe oneself..well...sometimes is viewed in a negative way.
BUT what I have inside of me..doesn't ever leave..it is as deeply a part of me as is my heart and my blood...it is vital to who I am..and it doesn't have to be visible for it to be present..and my OFOS femme does indeed "feel it", sense it, and reap that energy from me...
For me, OFOS is not a part of the "good old days" or the 50's or about a woman being "less than" in MY world...it IS about being with manners, courtesies, respect, considerations, cavalierly manners, equality, voice,and many other things that will always be a part of my fabric and morals and has been part of me from my earliest days of being....just my .02.
I do like to open doors, pull out chairs, walk with my arm in small of her back, help her don/doff her coat, and walk on outside of her with elbow cupped in my hand..among so many other things...this is just what is part of me...my personal stuff I own...so much more to share BUT I do have to be in bed now..and up early....have a greta night...

Honey, this is one of the many things i just love about you...these things make me feel special, important and uninvisible...it reinforces the respect you have for me...yes, i do indeed "feel" it even when we're just sitting together...my inner OFOS feels and responds to your inner OFOS and quite often they communicate with each other without saying anything...

bigbutchmistie
05-08-2012, 06:05 AM
Wanted to say hello to everyone. I havent posted here in a while. :)

OS Butch
05-08-2012, 03:17 PM
I almost had a little heart attack there! So, to clarify, have you almost stopped using the term, "OFOS", or have you almost stopped using the manners that OFOS refers to?

... Please, please tell me it's the first, and not the second option!

LOL! OFOS is very much a part of me and that will not change....I just am more likely not to use it as an identifier. Femmes know it when the see it;)

Firedance
05-09-2012, 08:24 AM
LOL! OFOS is very much a part of me and that will not change....I just am more likely not to use it as an identifier. Femmes know it when the see it;)

Phew! I didn't want to lose another one of you because you were unappreciated!

And yes, we DO know it when we see it. But like you said, those manners aren't always welcomed.

My question is, is there anything about a Femme that tells you one would welcome that part of the dance?

ruffryder
05-09-2012, 10:56 AM
Hello everybody! I consider my self an old fashioned kinda guy. I guess I was taught this growing up with my grandparents. It's a part of who I am and some girls appreciate that. I don't do it for show. I don't feel it makes me any better than anyone or is the best way to be. It's best for me and what I know. Some girls like when I hold the door open for them, take their hand in mine, walk hand in hand, walk on the outside closer to the road to assure her safety, put my arm around her or on the small of her back and guide her, message or call her just to make sure she got home safely, offer my jacket if she's cold. I do all this for my girl and I will do some of this for other women of all ages and hold open doors for anyone.

Now how to tell an OFOS femme.. I guess I can tell by the way she smiles and sighs and genuinely I can see in her reaction and face that she appreciates me the way I am. Sometimes I have to run ahead of her to get to the door as she's my lil energizer bunny rabbit and always on the go. Sometimes I just let her get to it first. *shrug* lol

I think all OFOS relationships are different but there is the main qualities and character of respect, admiration, adoration, and knowing someone has your back.

There are some OFOS relationships where the femmes want to do all the cooking or home chores while the butch / guy takes care of the auto duties and lawn. I was kinda in something like that in the past but I've always helped with cooking and cleaning. I for one like to be the one to take care of the lawn and outside. I enjoy stuff like that! I don't want her getting sweaty and dirty unless she really wants to. She loved her flowers and garden though. :)

Anyone can choose how they want their relationship to go. With mine I go with what works for both of us and still hold on to my OFOS values and beliefs that I was taught being a bit flexible and making sure she's happy too.

Thanks for the questions Firedance and I hope to see more interaction here!

Phew! I didn't want to lose another one of you because you were unappreciated!

And yes, we DO know it when we see it. But like you said, those manners aren't always welcomed.

My question is, is there anything about a Femme that tells you one would welcome that part of the dance?

So I have a question for ya'll.

As a Femme, I know OFOS when I see it. But I've been wondering how my counterparts recognize an OFOS Femme when you meet one?

~Fire.

diamondrose
05-09-2012, 11:01 AM
this dynamic speaks to my soul.. just saying:)

Jess
05-09-2012, 11:18 AM
There is a way she moves that with no effort, parts a sea of bodies to make way for her safe passage.
There is a way she breathes in the scent of a flower or a spice she is trying to identify.
There is a way her hand moves slowly over a favored fabric.
There is a way she will look once at me then take a second look holding her stare until I know she sees not only into me but through me.
There is a smile that radiates the room then upon realizing her own power will glance away with a soft knowing blush.
There is a way she will trace the line of her jaw with a rose petal.
There is a way she will begin to sing softly to her favorite song when she thinks I can't hear.

There are ways between us that have no language or need of it. There is a dance that while I may ask for, she has already chosen the music for.

Yes, there are things that let us know she is OFOS. These are a few of what I recognize.

OS Butch
05-09-2012, 05:06 PM
Phew! I didn't want to lose another one of you because you were unappreciated!

And yes, we DO know it when we see it. But like you said, those manners aren't always welcomed.

My question is, is there anything about a Femme that tells you one would welcome that part of the dance?

Well, that brings to mind a very funny story. I once dated a gal that was not an OFOS Femme. She very much enjoyed my type of OFOS. I would go get the car from the parking lot and pick her up at the door, even if it wasn't raining. She would allow me to open doors and pull out her chair and help her with her coat and many other things.
One day she was at a seminar for work. She had driven by herself. Later that evening she call to tell me what had happened after the seminar....
She left the seminar and was standing at the entrance....waiting for me to pick her up! She had forgotten she had drove herself!
For me, I don't necessarily look to see if a Femme is OFOS. It is more important to me that I be respected and allowed to be who I am and do the things I love to do...The manner in which that I show respect for a lady, Femme, Butch or purple people eater.
Admittedly though, it is much easier to be me with an OFOS Femme because they already know how i move in this world.

MrSunshine
05-09-2012, 05:19 PM
My question is, is there anything about a Femme that tells you one would welcome that part of the dance?

Yes. I have met femmes that say " you don't have to do that" or " I can get the door myself ". Then there's the femme that flashes a slight smile, drops her gaze and eyes just a bit then stands aside while I hold the door. So, yes.

easygoingfemme
10-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Just popping in to swoon.
Carry on.

deb0670
10-05-2012, 03:40 PM
It does a girls heart good knowing Chivalry is not dead, but still alive and well in the wonderful OFOS Family.. it really means a lot. OFOS P/people have away of standing out from the crowd, without even trying.

Leigh
10-05-2012, 03:47 PM
OFOS is something in a partner that I've always been attracted to ~ that essence of a butch or FTM simply makes me weak in the knees *sigh*

Dance-with-me
10-05-2012, 03:49 PM
Yes. I have met femmes that say " you don't have to do that" or " I can get the door myself ". Then there's the femme that flashes a slight smile, drops her gaze and eyes just a bit then stands aside while I hold the door. So, yes.
Yes indeed.

Then again there are the butches who simply click the car door unlocked and walk to their side, walk through the door ahead of me and maybe just hold the door until I grab it, hand me my coat, etc. I'm perfectly capable of handling those things myself, and those are not deal breakers if, say, we're running errands to Lowes or something, but in a date? Most likely a deal breaker. And here's the thing: if it's done as a special, and it's clear that this is an act someone is putting on special for the date, that shows. It equally shows if it's as natural and automatic to the butch as breathing.

GraffitiBoi
02-09-2013, 06:44 AM
Just thought I'd give this thread a little bump in case any of the many new people here are also OFOS.

I love being an OFOS butch/FTM. I get great enjoyment out of doing things for my femme that seem to have been long forgotten in today's world. When she smiles, I smile. When she's happy, I'm happy.

MaggieBluIze
02-09-2013, 08:19 AM
I :heartbeat: this thread.
Thank you for bumping it.
:happyjump:
:waitinggirl:

CharmingLee
02-09-2013, 08:45 AM
Just wanted to say Hi to everyone. I am old school butch for sure, being 48, I have had my fair share of experience dating and being in relationships with wonderful femmes. I enjoy being the gentleman, opening doors and spoiling my partner in general with flowers and small gifts. I actually got my nick name of "Charming" from the wonderful femmes I have encountered in my life. Here's to keeping the traditions alive. :beerbros:

little_ms_sunshyne
02-09-2013, 09:13 AM
I absolutely love all the sweetness that comes with being OS. I am not always used to it, but when a kind butch offers to carry my bag, opens a door, offers me hys coat if it is cold...SWOOON! Gives me the butterflies in my tummy and my face burns pink! Must be the hopeless romantic in me...some days a girl just needs to be wooed (spelling?)

Anyhow, just thought I would stop by and share my appreciation :)

MaggieBluIze
02-09-2013, 10:17 AM
OFOS has just always been a constant in my life, at some level ...
I never knew how much I :heartbeat: and truly "need" these things in my life,
until I did not have them while with someone.

I adore having my door opened for me.
Being put on the inside of the sidewalk.
Your hand on the small of my back.
Pulling out my chair and waiting to scoot it back in.
Getting the car door for me.
Newly experienced, even opening the car door to get out.
(I didn't know I would like that so very much :))
I will gladly tell you what I want to order, if you would like to tell the waiter for me.
Being dropped off at the door because it is cold or raining.
Waiting for you to get the car, for same reasons.
You insisting I wear your jacket since you know I must be chilly or getting damp from the rain,
even thought I did not say a word.

I :heartbeat: when you truly listen, pay attention to all that is said and done ...
Seeing proof of this with special little surprises that reflect that you truly heard me.
The sweet words of appreciation and sincerity whispered, texted or just make me weak in the knees.
Being touched when you walk past me, just cause you want to.

These are all things I miss so very much.
I now know I need these things from the person I am with.
I ache for them and do not feel complete without them.

Of course these are just a few of the things I appreciate and cherish.
Most likely, though out the day, things will trickle into my mind of what I forgot or missed.
These are just forefront in my mind.

Thank you for still carrying on these OFOS ways that are so very cherished, adored and needed ...
At least, in this femmes life.

I did not realize how very long this turned out to be ...
Guess it's something I feel strongly about and miss so very much!! :blush:

Heavenleahangel
02-09-2013, 10:46 AM
Being a southern girl from Georgia, I am OFOS and absolutely love all aspects of being with someone who is OFOS and knows how to treat a lady/woman. I will post more of my thoughts on this later, but am glad this thread is back up and posting again!

Dance-with-me
02-11-2013, 09:59 PM
It doesn't get much better than what I've found.

A huge smile and even an occasional "thank you" every time I wait for a moment so that she can get the door or my car door for me, and yet with a deep and sincere enthusiasm for my strength and independence.

Gently pointing out that clearly no one before her knew how to help me on with my coat, as I always awkwardly reached up at shoulder height instead of holding my arms down and back so that she can easily slip my coat onto them.

So many little things - the touches on my back as we walk, the way she leads me while dancing (not just that she leads, but the little things that make it a true OF butch style and not just a set of practiced steps and gestures), putting her jacket around my shoulders even though she is from year-round warmth and hates the cold.

Buying me a bunch of little gifts for our first Valentine's day that reflected so very well just how much she'd been paying close attention to who I really am and not just her idea of what a femme should want - including a bucket tool caddy and a ultrasonic pest repellant. (and yes, those were GREAT gifts for me! But definitely not the only ones.)

And all these things and more are just as natural to her as breathing. I think I've met my match.

Finn
02-22-2013, 09:37 PM
Hello Everyone;
I haven't been here in ages so thought I'd stop by and leave a little Hello for you a/ALL *S* Hope everyone is warm and safe. We are expecting more snow here tomorrow,, supposed to get around a foot!! on top of the foot we just got !! lol,, oh well,, spring and summer will be here soon enough.. Hope everyone has a great weekend..

:byebye:

~ocean
02-27-2013, 05:13 PM
OFOS butch's & femmes ~ we all know it's about "The Dance" ,as well as the seduction on both parts ~ the appreciation on the butch's part when hys ever sooooo gratefull for her efforts of seduction ~ she becomes complacent of hys desires , hys love ~ being gratefull of hys recognition as "hys" ~ she honors hys strength to lead her ~ hy melts by her comfort ~ her subtle way of making a home for them ~ unity ~

meridiantoo
03-14-2013, 11:31 AM
Just found this thread....subscribing now.

:clover:

tessie
05-31-2013, 04:34 PM
Hey Bump! :)

SaltyButch
06-01-2013, 03:25 PM
So I just want to bump this thread and ask this question.

What is one of the most romantic things someone has done for you as part of the dance?

Miss Scarlett
06-01-2013, 05:33 PM
What is one of the most romantic things someone has done for you as part of the dance?

Hy surprised me by showing up at my office just to kiss me...that's all...hy kissed me then drove home...btw - it was a 4 hour round trip for hym to do this...

I wasn't dating this next person, we were just the very closest of friends (in fact so close that most people thought we were a couple), but they have to be the sweetest things ever and for that reason I consider them romantic...Two years ago I was "abducted" for a mystery trip for my 52nd birthday. I didn't have a clue where we were going until we crossed over into Tennessee. We stopped to purchase apples then went on to a gallery (the real destination) where my friend purchased a print for me I'd wistfully mentioned in passing months before and hy'd apparently "filed away." (This was a limited edition and the odds of finding it were pretty slim.) We had a few other "adventures" before heading home, including the Tail of the Dragon - another thing I'd mentioned in passing. It was the most amazing day and I felt so special...just like a princess! A few days before (on my actual birthday) hy arranged a dinner with friends complete with surprise cake and musical candle. It was the first time anyone ever made a big fuss over my birthday. The other thing hy did was at Christmas that same year. I received a gift that was impossible to find. Around the same time that I mentioned the print I also mentioned that a "holy grail" for me was a signed, first edition of a certain book. Hys comment at the time was that it surely could not exist but hy found it and I was speechless.

tessie
06-28-2013, 12:19 AM
So I just want to bump this thread and ask this question.

What is one of the most romantic things someone has done for you as part of the dance?

Once my wonderful Mr brought me home 8 dozen of roses, various colors so beautiful. One dozen was for my Mother who is passed over. One for Hys Mother also passed over. This was on Valentine's day this year. Hy does things like that all of the time. Brings me girly gifts constantly. Plus all of the little personal things each and every day! :)

*Anya*
06-28-2013, 07:07 AM
I had only dated my butch for a couple of months this past year when Christmas arrived.

It is not a LDR and from the very beginning, I saw her several times a week.

She handed me a beautifully wrapped, red velvet pouch. I was afraid to open it.

She said: "From the moment that I saw you, I fell for you. You deserve these. I wanted to see yours ears sparkle, because you do".

The pouch contained diamond earrings. So beautiful.

I had never had any "real" jewelry before.

They are very meaningful to me because of her verbalized sentiment, not because they are real.

If she had said what she did to me and had given me cubic zirconia's; it would have meant just as much to me because of what she said.

Her gift was from her heart.

We will be together 8 months next week.

PS: She also sent two dozen red roses which were delivered at my job on Valentines Day. Kind of embarrassing to walk them back to my office but it gave me the opportunity to come out at work multiple times, with several people, very easily: "Oh, beautiful flowers, did your husband send them?"

"No, my girlfriend".

"Oh".

:stillheart:

LucyGirl
07-06-2013, 05:07 PM
waiting for a butch to get me enough to really take my breath away in that way way...

LucyGirl
07-06-2013, 05:09 PM
...don't get me wrong, the dance is always fun.

snow white
07-18-2013, 03:17 PM
Hello!

I'm new, so I am still very much finding my way around the site but I thought I'd pop by here and say "hi" as you all seem very nice.

I have still to make my first 30 posts and cannot start a new thread yet, so I was looking for places where I could make relevant posts to build up my number without just posting for the sake of it....if that makes sense?? : )

Anyway, I found this thread and thought it might be relevant to me. I'm not really sure...

Ok...here goes! I'm straight. Or, at least I have been my entire life. However, in the last couple of weeks I have discovered that I am *very* attracted to Butch lesbians and now I'm wondering what that means...(I think particularly Stone Butches??)

I am not only straight, I am submissive and am fairly familiar with the BDSM community, so I was wondering if my submissiveness may be muddying the waters a little...? I honestly don't know, actually, and am finding all of this very confusing and would really like some help figuring it all out. If anyone is willing to discuss this with me further I'd really appreciate it : ) Oh, and I'm in the UK if that's relevant.

I see that someone in this thread identified themselves as an "innocent sub or femme" (or something similar?), and although I didn't think to use this to describe how I identify, I am going to appropriate it now (thanks to whomever it was!). I grew up with fairy tales and identified very strongly with the hyper-feminine innocence and beauty, grace and gentleness of the princesses in these stories, and have never shaken that off. I love chivalry and mourn it's loss in this busy, modern world. I am still awaiting my Knight in Shining Armour to come and rescue me, but, until now, I had never considered that their gender could be anything other than male...

Please could some kind person help me to figure out what's going on? Thank you! : )

Sorry if this post is in the wrong place, btw, and pls feel free to move it! : )

Lovely to meet you all and have a great evening!

Snow White x

snow white
07-20-2013, 02:04 PM
Am I allowed to bump this?

Sweet Bliss
07-20-2013, 04:23 PM
Am I allowed to bump this?

Of course you may! I like to bump too! :hangloose:

Jess
11-05-2014, 01:23 AM
and because I miss this discussion... bump...

:cigar2:

sultrybrunette50
11-05-2014, 01:43 PM
Im Old School Ultra Femme..I
Just Joined and I found this thread..I will Deff be back later...Wink...

sultrybrunette50
11-05-2014, 02:10 PM
One of the most romantic thing someone I was with surprised me with was as follows...She told me in advance that on a certain night we were going to Fly to a tropical Island so start packing and I packed my sexy heels and summer day and evening wear not knowing the reason for this I was so excited..A week later we flew into San Juan P.R, the sun was shining and the smell of all the wonderful tropical scents surrounded me..We checked in to a beautiful Suite that was filled with Roses every where, there was wine and champagne,we had a glass of wine and all of a sudden she tooky hand and walked me to the bedroom and the rest is history...several he's later before we showered she got down on one knee and proposed with the most beautiful ring....that was 15 yrs ago ...we broke up 5 yes later..anyway that was so romantic...

~ocean
11-05-2014, 02:29 PM
hi sultry ~ yes I agree that was very romantic :) ~ welcome to the planet ~ join us in chat sometime ~ and we usually have a coffee crowd in the mornings as well :)

sultrybrunette50
11-05-2014, 04:28 PM
Hello to all...I'm a new on here..I'm a stone femme..I love the Butch Femme Dynamics and wouldn't have it any other way!!

Jess
11-05-2014, 04:36 PM
most often it is not in grand gestures but in small things...

like the way she remembered tiny details of things I thought only I would notice... things that were important to me became important to her and that, my friends, is not only romantic, but downright sexy...

yes, planned out "events" or "gifts" are romantic without a doubt, but at least for me, making the everyday special is what keeps romance alive for the long haul (f)

:cigar2:

Firedance
11-13-2014, 10:02 PM
The secret to happiness...
7KILX2MM2Yo

A. Spectre
11-14-2014, 06:26 AM
had to ask someone what OFOS meant.

*nods yes :rrose:

girlin2une
11-14-2014, 06:32 AM
had to ask someone what OFOS meant.

*nods yes :rrose:

Old Fashioned, old school

A. Spectre
11-14-2014, 06:37 AM
Old Fashioned, old school

thank you :givingarose:

girlin2une
11-14-2014, 07:10 AM
thank you :givingarose:

You are welcome! :eyebat:

Sweet Bliss
11-18-2014, 09:25 AM
Hummm. Most romantic thing?

At Christmas he gave me a journal to put my writings in, and gingerbread boy/girl salt/pepper shakers. I was teaching him how to use his crock pot.

It was then I realized he really got me. A Bliss first.

Firedance
11-23-2014, 09:57 AM
Yes indeed.

Then again there are the butches who simply click the car door unlocked and walk to their side, walk through the door ahead of me and maybe just hold the door until I grab it, hand me my coat, etc. I'm perfectly capable of handling those things myself, and those are not deal breakers if, say, we're running errands to Lowes or something, but in a date? Most likely a deal breaker. And here's the thing: if it's done as a special, and it's clear that this is an act someone is putting on special for the date, that shows. It equally shows if it's as natural and automatic to the butch as breathing.

I have a new favorite Blog. It's all about OFOS, and WHY it STILL matters! Disclaimer, this is written by a cis-guy, but manners transcend gender don't they?

Here is a sample of the amazing writing...


A Gentlemanís Chivalry Acts Explained in Practicality.


I have always been of the mind that in a democracy manners are the only effective weapons against the bowie-knife.
James Russell Lowell
We can find countless articles online praising and criticizing the most evident acts of Chivalry a Gentleman can do towards a lady; holding doors open, opening car doors, and pulling chairs. Those that comment against them, usually do so out of either a lack of manners or simply not understanding why these acts are done. I canít really blame their ignorance on the topic, because they are not really interested in it. What really surprises me is the lack of understanding by those who profess being Gentlemen. That is why so many of those ďIs Chivalry deadĒ debates end up with the Gentleman thrashed by their counterpart.

If you donít understand what you are doing and more importantly WHY you are doing it, your actions become simply a pantomime, and imitation, that ends up looking awkward. This is especially true if we donít have a sense of empathy towards the person in the receiving end of the action. Keep in mind that manners are nothing more than a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use. With that in mind, letís break down the practicality of some of the more typical actions that can be expected from a Gentleman.

Opening a door for a Lady
Let me start by clarifying, this has nothing to do with a Gentleman thinking women canít open their own doors. It came from two specific traditions, the overelaborate clothing women used to wear and the role of the Gentleman as a Bodyguard. First off, a womanís skirt was so wide, they couldnít even reach the door handle. That is no longer the case, so we donít need to take this into account any longer. The second is the role of the Bodyguard, of creating a safe environment for women. This is something that still needs to be maintained and even promoted.
A gentleman will open a door first, making sure that the room is safe for her to enter. As she enters, he is able to scan the surroundings to make sure that the area is safe. As he enters after her, the lady is kept from having her back to the door. You might think this seems somewhat paranoid and overly cautious. Just take a few minutes viewing some of the stories of what the ladies have to deal with in a daily basis, and then tell me I am being overly cautious.

Walking a Lady to her door.
Again, as with opening doors, this is all about providing a safe environment for the Lady. Just refer to ďOpening a door for a LadyĒ for a better explanation.

Pulling chairs
Again, a lady can sit down without assistance. This tradition again came from the elaborate dresses of old. But can we really get rid of it? This actually depends on how the Lady is dressed. If she is wearing anything other than a skirt, yes. But if she is wearing a skirt, the lady will probably try to fold it under her legs so it sets properly as she sits down. Now, how is she going to be able to do this AND pull the chair at once? Gentlemen, doesnít take much to be decent.

Paying
I am tired of clearing this up. Who makes the invite, pays. Itís that simple. Itís not about showing off, or thinking she needs your money, or whatever other nonsense people will say about the topic. You invited them, means you are picking up the check.
What is so complicated?

Helping a lady into and out of a Car
Take a minute and look at your car. Imagine trying to get into it or out of it with a short skirt and heels. Now imagine doing it gracefully. If you drive a low profile sports car or a high truck or SUV, the difficulty level this is even higher. Gentlemen, this is just simple act of consideration towards the Lady.

This is also the reason why you should help a lady when she is walking up and down stairs. Try doing it with 3Ē+ heels.

Offering a Lady your Jacket
Again, letís look at womenís fashion when compared to menís clothing. We typically dress in layers; from the undershirt (optional), the shirt, a vest (optional), and a Jacket. A lady will probably be wearing a lot less. If the weather is somewhat cold, please donít offer her your jacket. Simply take it off and place it over her shoulders. If you offer, she might probably get self-conscious and refuse, even if she is freezing.

Offering a Lady your seat.
This one, I really canít believe I have to explain, but here goes. First off, have you taken a look at womenís footwear? Itís a simple act. Itís not like you donít need the exercise.

I know that most of the comments are based on how the lady is dressed, and you can simply say itís her problem, that she chose to dress that way. You might think that it was her choice to wear heals, or a strapless dress, or short skirt. Yes, it was her decision. That doesnít mean you shouldnít be considerate.

Guys, none of this is obligatory. Nobody is forcing you. If anything, this has become so rare, itís no longer even expected from you. Just donít complain that some of us are not as selfish and self-centered.

http://beingcaballero.blogspot.com/

kittygrrl
11-24-2014, 01:24 AM
I have a new favorite Blog. It's all about OFOS, and WHY it STILL matters! Disclaimer, this is written by a cis-guy, but manners transcend gender don't they?

Here is a sample of the amazing writing...


A Gentlemanís Chivalry Acts Explained in Practicality.


I have always been of the mind that in a democracy manners are the only effective weapons against the bowie-knife.
James Russell Lowell
We can find countless articles online praising and criticizing the most evident acts of Chivalry a Gentleman can do towards a lady; holding doors open, opening car doors, and pulling chairs. Those that comment against them, usually do so out of either a lack of manners or simply not understanding why these acts are done. I canít really blame their ignorance on the topic, because they are not really interested in it. What really surprises me is the lack of understanding by those who profess being Gentlemen. That is why so many of those ďIs Chivalry deadĒ debates end up with the Gentleman thrashed by their counterpart.

If you donít understand what you are doing and more importantly WHY you are doing it, your actions become simply a pantomime, and imitation, that ends up looking awkward. This is especially true if we donít have a sense of empathy towards the person in the receiving end of the action. Keep in mind that manners are nothing more than a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use. With that in mind, letís break down the practicality of some of the more typical actions that can be expected from a Gentleman.

Opening a door for a Lady
Let me start by clarifying, this has nothing to do with a Gentleman thinking women canít open their own doors. It came from two specific traditions, the overelaborate clothing women used to wear and the role of the Gentleman as a Bodyguard. First off, a womanís skirt was so wide, they couldnít even reach the door handle. That is no longer the case, so we donít need to take this into account any longer. The second is the role of the Bodyguard, of creating a safe environment for women. This is something that still needs to be maintained and even promoted.
A gentleman will open a door first, making sure that the room is safe for her to enter. As she enters, he is able to scan the surroundings to make sure that the area is safe. As he enters after her, the lady is kept from having her back to the door. You might think this seems somewhat paranoid and overly cautious. Just take a few minutes viewing some of the stories of what the ladies have to deal with in a daily basis, and then tell me I am being overly cautious.

Walking a Lady to her door.
Again, as with opening doors, this is all about providing a safe environment for the Lady. Just refer to ďOpening a door for a LadyĒ for a better explanation.

Pulling chairs
Again, a lady can sit down without assistance. This tradition again came from the elaborate dresses of old. But can we really get rid of it? This actually depends on how the Lady is dressed. If she is wearing anything other than a skirt, yes. But if she is wearing a skirt, the lady will probably try to fold it under her legs so it sets properly as she sits down. Now, how is she going to be able to do this AND pull the chair at once? Gentlemen, doesnít take much to be decent.

Paying
I am tired of clearing this up. Who makes the invite, pays. Itís that simple. Itís not about showing off, or thinking she needs your money, or whatever other nonsense people will say about the topic. You invited them, means you are picking up the check.
What is so complicated?

Helping a lady into and out of a Car
Take a minute and look at your car. Imagine trying to get into it or out of it with a short skirt and heels. Now imagine doing it gracefully. If you drive a low profile sports car or a high truck or SUV, the difficulty level this is even higher. Gentlemen, this is just simple act of consideration towards the Lady.

This is also the reason why you should help a lady when she is walking up and down stairs. Try doing it with 3Ē+ heels.

Offering a Lady your Jacket
Again, letís look at womenís fashion when compared to menís clothing. We typically dress in layers; from the undershirt (optional), the shirt, a vest (optional), and a Jacket. A lady will probably be wearing a lot less. If the weather is somewhat cold, please donít offer her your jacket. Simply take it off and place it over her shoulders. If you offer, she might probably get self-conscious and refuse, even if she is freezing.

Offering a Lady your seat.
This one, I really canít believe I have to explain, but here goes. First off, have you taken a look at womenís footwear? Itís a simple act. Itís not like you donít need the exercise.

I know that most of the comments are based on how the lady is dressed, and you can simply say itís her problem, that she chose to dress that way. You might think that it was her choice to wear heals, or a strapless dress, or short skirt. Yes, it was her decision. That doesnít mean you shouldnít be considerate.

Guys, none of this is obligatory. Nobody is forcing you. If anything, this has become so rare, itís no longer even expected from you. Just donít complain that some of us are not as selfish and self-centered.

http://beingcaballero.blogspot.com/

It's sad that there isn't much activity in this thread at present. Maybe Old School will fade from the horizon like so many other nice things. Firedance thank you for such a wonderful post!(f)

diamondrose
11-24-2014, 07:19 AM
Well said firedance

~ocean
11-24-2014, 07:45 AM
~~ It takes 2 ~~ is all i have to say ~~

Jess
11-24-2014, 03:28 PM
http://ct.shadowtext.net/il/st/se/i40/2/4/15/shadowtextphpechoQuotesAndSayings_4d015b7d7789ed6c 2adb2c87c0296ef2.jpg


I love seeing new breath being given to this thread. For me, being OFOS means quite simply honoring the romance and respectful traditions we have learned from our parents or grandparents or through watching older members of our communities. The thoughtful and mindful ways with which we treat our beloved is what being OFOS is about for me. As Miss ~ocean mentioned, "it takes two", meaning the same respect and courtesies are given as well as to be expected.

I loved the post that Miss Firedance made including the blog that speaks in practicality. Thank you so much for gentle reminders and for hopefully igniting further dialogue.:rrose:

I am a door opener, hand kisser, forehead kisser, escort her properly in given circumstance... in general "treat her like a lady" kind of guy. The manners of romance were something that while not always present between my parents or grands, I was acutely aware of when I did get to witness them. I still love seeing the subtle grandeur with which a gentleman (gentleperson) attends his lady and likewise, the graceful nuances that express pleasure and consent on the part of a well mannered mindful lady.

I loved the blog in that while not exactly a "how to" it was more of a "why for" sort of instruction to todays gentlemen. There are many benefits to treating a lady with observant mindfulness, not the least of which is endearing her to yourself and allowing her to feel safe, nurtured and protected. There are also the secret intimacies that are shared more privately between you that these gestures help promote. A playful quote from a beautiful woman regarding gentlemen and their reserved inner thoughts:

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ee/eb/61/eeeb61ffcafdaff4d25cbe2b76de19dd.jpg

A couple of things I was moved to consider from the blog and then I will come back later to add to the discussion as time permits. I have "snipped" the post to just highlight the things I am addressing now.



A Gentlemanís Chivalry Acts Explained in Practicality.


If you donít understand what you are doing and more importantly WHY you are doing it, your actions become simply a pantomime, and imitation, that ends up looking awkward. This is especially true if we donít have a sense of empathy towards the person in the receiving end of the action. Keep in mind that manners are nothing more than a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use.

Opening a door for a Lady
Let me start by clarifying, this has nothing to do with a Gentleman thinking women canít open their own doors. It came from two specific traditions, the overelaborate clothing women used to wear and the role of the Gentleman as a Bodyguard. First off, a womanís skirt was so wide, they couldnít even reach the door handle. That is no longer the case, so we donít need to take this into account any longer. The second is the role of the Bodyguard, of creating a safe environment for women. This is something that still needs to be maintained and even promoted.
A gentleman will open a door first, making sure that the room is safe for her to enter. As she enters, he is able to scan the surroundings to make sure that the area is safe. As he enters after her, the lady is kept from having her back to the door. You might think this seems somewhat paranoid and overly cautious. Just take a few minutes viewing some of the stories of what the ladies have to deal with in a daily basis, and then tell me I am being overly cautious.


Helping a lady into and out of a Car
Take a minute and look at your car. Imagine trying to get into it or out of it with a short skirt and heels. Now imagine doing it gracefully. If you drive a low profile sports car or a high truck or SUV, the difficulty level this is even higher. Gentlemen, this is just simple act of consideration towards the Lady.

This is also the reason why you should help a lady when she is walking up and down stairs. Try doing it with 3Ē+ heels.


I know that most of the comments are based on how the lady is dressed, and you can simply say itís her problem, that she chose to dress that way. You might think that it was her choice to wear heals, or a strapless dress, or short skirt. Yes, it was her decision. That doesnít mean you shouldnít be considerate.



For this moment, I am considering the "why's" and specifically the "how's" of opening car doors and escorting a lady. I will come back to other points later.

I love both placing a lady into the car and helping her out of it. As the blogger pointed out, especially when she is "dressed up" there are more things to consider for her than those of us in mens wear deal with. If she is in a dress or skirt I like to make sure she has gotten comfortable and none of the flowing fabric has fallen over the door opening and will gently tuck it inside the car if it has. I will usually ask to make sure she hasn't forgotten anything inside that I might need to retrieve as it is easier for me to do that than her if she is in heels. I also make sure her seat belt is accessible and again, not caught in between the door closure and will more often than not, wait until she has fastened it before I close her door. It is usually after I know she is comfortable and secure that I will get into the car.

When assisting her out of the car, I will usually position myself to obstruct the view of anyone else in particular if she is wearing a shorter dress or skirt that may have risen during her ride and that might expose more than appropriate areas of flesh. This is secretly a thrill as only I am allowed access to those views and yes, I definitely enjoy the view. I admittedly love the vision of a woman's foot in a sexy shoe stepping out of a car and welcome any opportunity to view it. So, if being helpful isn't enough reason to do it, then remember the benefits :

http://ak.picdn.net/offset/photos/52f163d382359b9a6c4061e6/medium/photo.jpg


I will be back later and hopefully new thoughts and discussion will be added. Next I will discuss how I like to escort my lady. If no one adds to the discussion I guess I will simply consider it an opportunity to think out loud and reflect on a few wonderful steps of this dance that is butch/femme (in whatever presentation butch/femme appears in).

:cigar2:

Kelt
11-24-2014, 04:29 PM
<snip for space>

For this moment, I am considering the "why's" and specifically the "how's" of opening car doors and escorting a lady. I will come back to other points later.

I love both placing a lady into the car and helping her out of it. As the blogger pointed out, especially when she is "dressed up" there are more things to consider for her than those of us in mens wear deal with. If she is in a dress or skirt I like to make sure she has gotten comfortable and none of the flowing fabric has fallen over the door opening and will gently tuck it inside the car if it has. I will usually ask to make sure she hasn't forgotten anything inside that I might need to retrieve as it is easier for me to do that than her if she is in heels. I also make sure her seat belt is accessible and again, not caught in between the door closure and will more often than not, wait until she has fastened it before I close her door. It is usually after I know she is comfortable and secure that I will get into the car.

When assisting her out of the car, I will usually position myself to obstruct the view of anyone else in particular if she is wearing a shorter dress or skirt that may have risen during her ride and that might expose more than appropriate areas of flesh. This is secretly a thrill as only I am allowed access to those views and yes, I definitely enjoy the view. I admittedly love the vision of a woman's foot in a sexy shoe stepping out of a car and welcome any opportunity to view it. So, if being helpful isn't enough reason to do it, then remember the benefits :

http://ak.picdn.net/offset/photos/52f163d382359b9a6c4061e6/medium/photo.jpg


I will be back later and hopefully new thoughts and discussion will be added. Next I will discuss how I like to escort my lady. If no one adds to the discussion I guess I will simply consider it an opportunity to think out loud and reflect on a few wonderful steps of this dance that is butch/femme (in whatever presentation butch/femme appears in).

:cigar2:

These are great points and I thought I'd add a couple of steps that I use when a femme is going to be in my car.

Prep: Of course the car is clean and if there is anything that would normally be in the front seat I would put it in the back before picking her up. If needed I would also make sure that the interior surfaces and especially the door sill are freshly wiped down. If she's wearing a dress the fabric might get dirty passing over it. A couple of touches I like to add is to stock certain items that seem to be appreciated and used if present such as bottled water, hand wipes, and a packet of tissues in easy reach. All fresh and unopened.

Another small addition for me would be to pull out the seatbelt out the first foot or so as soon as she is settles so she can get it without having to twist around looking or reaching for it. Optionally I would offer to hold her handbag while she is getting in depending on size.

I also liked the part about WHY to do it and how awkward it can be when you see someone doing these things when that understanding isn't there. For me it is part of taking care of her and if she is is dressed up nicely showing appreciation for the fact that she is done up at least in part for me.

I look forward to your next musings. :chaplin:

Firedance
11-24-2014, 05:52 PM
~~ It takes 2 ~~ is all i have to say ~~

Exactly!

And as a Femme I say;

Give me a Butch that knows how to kiss the back of my hand when we meet, and I'll give you one entranced Femme!

Pull out my chair, and as I sit, I'll look over my shoulder and smile, just for you.

Open my door, and I'll step out with enough grace to take your breath away.

Place your hand in the small of my back, and I'll shudder with delight. My body will react to the smallest pressure, and we will walk together seamlessly.

Offer me your arm, and I shall take it with pride, and walk just suggestively enough that everyone will look at us, and see how happy I am to be with you.

Give me your respect, and I will give you mine, and everywhere we go, people will stare, and wish they were us.

~Fire.

SleepyButch
11-24-2014, 06:08 PM
Opening her door for her, whether she is getting in or getting out is a good way to be very close to her and potentially sneak in a kiss or two so that is another benefit right there. Offering your hand to help her out of the car, when she takes it and seeing the smile on her face. It makes me feel good. I'm sure those of you who do this get what I mean. Then checking the seat to make sure she didn't forget anything.

My last ex didn't really like me doing this for her, which now that I think of it was kind of sad.

Firedance
11-24-2014, 06:43 PM
Opening a door for a Lady
Let me start by clarifying, this has nothing to do with a Gentleman thinking women canít open their own doors. It came from the role of the Gentleman as a Bodyguard. The [...] role of the Bodyguard, of creating a safe environment for women. This is something that still needs to be maintained and even promoted.

A gentleman will open a door first, making sure that the room is safe for her to enter. As she enters, he is able to scan the surroundings to make sure that the area is safe. As he enters after her, the lady is kept from having her back to the door. You might think this seems somewhat paranoid and overly cautious. Just take a few minutes viewing some of the stories of what the ladies have to deal with in a daily basis, and then tell me I am being overly cautious.

Since this is written from the Gentle-person's perspective; allow me to add my perspective, (as a OFOS Femme).

I am not just a Femme, I am a Lady. Other people don't like that word, and choose not to use it as part of how they identify. That's fine. It so happens that I do use it to identify myself.
It is a word I have come to OWN.

I am a Strong, Fierce, Independent, Capable, Woman of Worth.
And as such, I both deserve and expect my consort to not only take on the role of my Lover, but also, my Bodyguard, my Confidant, my Champion.

If you want the former, the route to my heart, you must be ALL of the latter. If you can't/won't/aren't interested in showing me respect and admiration, that's fine. You simply aren't for me.

If you happen to be interested in a woman who knows her worth, then find out what she values about herself, and find a way to show her that you honor that part of her! And that is a Fine, Fine, start my friends!







Offering a Lady your Jacket
Again, letís look at womenís fashion when compared to menís clothing. We typically dress in layers; from the undershirt (optional), the shirt, a vest (optional), and a Jacket. A lady will probably be wearing a lot less. If the weather is somewhat cold, please donít offer her your jacket. Simply take it off and place it over her shoulders. If you offer, she might probably get self-conscious and refuse, even if she is freezing.

http://beingcaballero.blogspot.com/

LOVE THIS, (Sometimes)!!!

As a matter of fact, I dress WAY more provocatively when I am partnered, or in Queer spaces. (And yes, partially because we all know how catty the drag-queens can get) But mostly because it is pure joy to be seen as FEMME!

My form-fitting, barely-there dresses look at best, awkward, and sometimes down-right terrible with coats or sweaters! And I'm just sayin' y'all might start seeing a lot more Femme-skin if we didn't have to choose between freezing our butts off, or looking hot! ;)

I will sound a note of caution... This is an incredibly intimate gesture. While I would love to have a partner show me this curtesy, without having to ask... A random Butch, or even a close friend doing the same thing would probably get a different reaction. Giving a femme your coat is the same thing as declaring publicly, that, "She is with me". This particular act of kindness may be rebuffed simply because the Femme in question doesn't want to send that message.

Personally I recommend asking first if you have the least question of where you stand... Taking off your coat, holding it out, and then asking, "May I?" would be very well received by this Femme.

Joy on your Journey!

~Fire

~ocean
11-24-2014, 07:08 PM
~ OSOF ~ isn't just about having proper manners ~ Its also how we view ourselves ~knowing how to treat others ~ how we expect to be treated ~ work ethics ~accepting lives changes ~ knowing how to handle the ups and downs ~ doing it w/ class. ~ anyone can have manners ~ do they handle themselves in situations with class ~ when u find that right butch who can smile after you both handled a delicate situation ~ and as he puts his hand at the small of your back as hy guides you ~ leads you with hys strength ~ you respond w/ a smile of appreciation ~ hy knows ~ ahh class ~ more noticeable than just manners ~ osof ~ is from knowing ~

Nadeest
12-01-2014, 03:59 PM
I have a new favorite Blog. It's all about OFOS, and WHY it STILL matters! Disclaimer, this is written by a cis-guy, but manners transcend gender don't they?

Here is a sample of the amazing writing...


A Gentlemanís Chivalry Acts Explained in Practicality.


I have always been of the mind that in a democracy manners are the only effective weapons against the bowie-knife.
James Russell Lowell
We can find countless articles online praising and criticizing the most evident acts of Chivalry a Gentleman can do towards a lady; holding doors open, opening car doors, and pulling chairs. Those that comment against them, usually do so out of either a lack of manners or simply not understanding why these acts are done. I canít really blame their ignorance on the topic, because they are not really interested in it. What really surprises me is the lack of understanding by those who profess being Gentlemen. That is why so many of those ďIs Chivalry deadĒ debates end up with the Gentleman thrashed by their counterpart.

If you donít understand what you are doing and more importantly WHY you are doing it, your actions become simply a pantomime, and imitation, that ends up looking awkward. This is especially true if we donít have a sense of empathy towards the person in the receiving end of the action. Keep in mind that manners are nothing more than a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use. With that in mind, letís break down the practicality of some of the more typical actions that can be expected from a Gentleman.

Opening a door for a Lady
Let me start by clarifying, this has nothing to do with a Gentleman thinking women canít open their own doors. It came from two specific traditions, the overelaborate clothing women used to wear and the role of the Gentleman as a Bodyguard. First off, a womanís skirt was so wide, they couldnít even reach the door handle. That is no longer the case, so we donít need to take this into account any longer. The second is the role of the Bodyguard, of creating a safe environment for women. This is something that still needs to be maintained and even promoted.
A gentleman will open a door first, making sure that the room is safe for her to enter. As she enters, he is able to scan the surroundings to make sure that the area is safe. As he enters after her, the lady is kept from having her back to the door. You might think this seems somewhat paranoid and overly cautious. Just take a few minutes viewing some of the stories of what the ladies have to deal with in a daily basis, and then tell me I am being overly cautious.

Walking a Lady to her door.
Again, as with opening doors, this is all about providing a safe environment for the Lady. Just refer to ďOpening a door for a LadyĒ for a better explanation........ (shortened for brevity)

This is a marvelous article. (By the way, I just found this thread, and HAD to comment.)

I remember the first time that I went out with someone, after I had started transition. I was out with my date, and my friend, as we had all arranged to meet in Oklahoma City for the night, and we went walking. They ensured that I was placed in the middle, for my protection. Even though I had been a Marine, they were both combat vets, and knew that I had never seen combat. We had gone walking, and were outside of the gay district, in that town, so they wanted to ensure my safety.

They were trying to protect me, in case of an attack by a group of people. Mind you, knowing me, I'd have done my best to help fight the attackers off, I greatly appreciated their consideration, and would have done my best to follow their orders (not that I liked the orders all that much).

To me, protection and courtesy is very important. I treasure the little things, as I never received them, before I transitioned.

Butcher
01-08-2015, 06:06 PM
I'm a young butch but I consider myself OFOS. This thread is a blessing.

LilyCat
03-03-2015, 09:31 PM
this is such a great thread!

LilyCat
03-07-2015, 05:17 PM
A wonderful OFOS butch melts my heart and gets all of me, happily and willingly.

:bunchflowers: :wine: :blush: :cheer: :lips:

cutiefemme
03-07-2015, 06:08 PM
A wonderful OFOS butch melts my heart and gets all of me, happily and willingly.

:bunchflowers: :wine: :blush: :cheer: :lips:

I love them!

giggleluver
11-22-2015, 07:33 PM
Hello, anyone around?:byebye:

RumorHasIt
11-23-2015, 08:53 AM
LOVE this topic. Being in the .........*ahem * mid years of my life, I have missed OFOS .

Chad
04-28-2017, 11:43 AM
I am bumping this thread because I am OFOS.

homoe
04-28-2017, 01:24 PM
I'm OFOS as well so thanks Chad for bumping the thread:hangloose:

homoe
04-28-2017, 01:39 PM
I have a new favorite Blog. It's all about OFOS, and WHY it STILL matters! Disclaimer, this is written by a cis-guy, but manners transcend gender don't they?

Here is a sample of the amazing writing...


A Gentleman’s Chivalry Acts Explained in Practicality.


I have always been of the mind that in a democracy manners are the only effective weapons against the bowie-knife.
James Russell Lowell
We can find countless articles online praising and criticizing the most evident acts of Chivalry a Gentleman can do towards a lady; holding doors open, opening car doors, and pulling chairs. Those that comment against them, usually do so out of either a lack of manners or simply not understanding why these acts are done. I can’t really blame their ignorance on the topic, because they are not really interested in it. What really surprises me is the lack of understanding by those who profess being Gentlemen. That is why so many of those “Is Chivalry dead” debates end up with the Gentleman thrashed by their counterpart.

If you don’t understand what you are doing and more importantly WHY you are doing it, your actions become simply a pantomime, and imitation, that ends up looking awkward. This is especially true if we don’t have a sense of empathy towards the person in the receiving end of the action. Keep in mind that manners are nothing more than a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use. With that in mind, let’s break down the practicality of some of the more typical actions that can be expected from a Gentleman.

Opening a door for a Lady
Let me start by clarifying, this has nothing to do with a Gentleman thinking women can’t open their own doors. It came from two specific traditions, the overelaborate clothing women used to wear and the role of the Gentleman as a Bodyguard. First off, a woman’s skirt was so wide, they couldn’t even reach the door handle. That is no longer the case, so we don’t need to take this into account any longer. The second is the role of the Bodyguard, of creating a safe environment for women. This is something that still needs to be maintained and even promoted.
A gentleman will open a door first, making sure that the room is safe for her to enter. As she enters, he is able to scan the surroundings to make sure that the area is safe. As he enters after her, the lady is kept from having her back to the door. You might think this seems somewhat paranoid and overly cautious. Just take a few minutes viewing some of the stories of what the ladies have to deal with in a daily basis, and then tell me I am being overly cautious.

Walking a Lady to her door.
Again, as with opening doors, this is all about providing a safe environment for the Lady. Just refer to “Opening a door for a Lady” for a better explanation.

Pulling chairs
Again, a lady can sit down without assistance. This tradition again came from the elaborate dresses of old. But can we really get rid of it? This actually depends on how the Lady is dressed. If she is wearing anything other than a skirt, yes. But if she is wearing a skirt, the lady will probably try to fold it under her legs so it sets properly as she sits down. Now, how is she going to be able to do this AND pull the chair at once? Gentlemen, doesn’t take much to be decent.

Paying
I am tired of clearing this up. Who makes the invite, pays. It’s that simple. It’s not about showing off, or thinking she needs your money, or whatever other nonsense people will say about the topic. You invited them, means you are picking up the check.
What is so complicated?

Helping a lady into and out of a Car
Take a minute and look at your car. Imagine trying to get into it or out of it with a short skirt and heels. Now imagine doing it gracefully. If you drive a low profile sports car or a high truck or SUV, the difficulty level this is even higher. Gentlemen, this is just simple act of consideration towards the Lady.

This is also the reason why you should help a lady when she is walking up and down stairs. Try doing it with 3”+ heels.

Offering a Lady your Jacket
Again, let’s look at women’s fashion when compared to men’s clothing. We typically dress in layers; from the undershirt (optional), the shirt, a vest (optional), and a Jacket. A lady will probably be wearing a lot less. If the weather is somewhat cold, please don’t offer her your jacket. Simply take it off and place it over her shoulders. If you offer, she might probably get self-conscious and refuse, even if she is freezing.

Offering a Lady your seat.
This one, I really can’t believe I have to explain, but here goes. First off, have you taken a look at women’s footwear? It’s a simple act. It’s not like you don’t need the exercise.

I know that most of the comments are based on how the lady is dressed, and you can simply say it’s her problem, that she chose to dress that way. You might think that it was her choice to wear heals, or a strapless dress, or short skirt. Yes, it was her decision. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be considerate.

Guys, none of this is obligatory. Nobody is forcing you. If anything, this has become so rare, it’s no longer even expected from you. Just don’t complain that some of us are not as selfish and self-centered.

http://beingcaballero.blogspot.com/

I've been around A LONG time and even I didn't know the history of fashion and its effects on why doors were opened, etc! I learned something new today and that's always a good thing:hangloose:

homoe
04-28-2017, 01:48 PM
I'd just like to add my two cents about paying...

Paying
"I am tired of clearing this up. Who makes the invite, pays. It’s that simple. It’s not about showing off, or thinking she needs your money, or whatever other nonsense people will say about the topic. You invited them, means you are picking up the check. What is so complicated"?

I think some femmes may be uncomfortable with this because they think 'something' might be expect if they allow the butch to pay! An OFOS butch would never, in a million years, expect anything in return IMHO!

If you're out with someone who gives you the impression they'd expect that, RUN FOR THE HILLS and F A S T !

Chad
04-28-2017, 03:13 PM
I'd just like to add my two cents about paying...

Paying
"I am tired of clearing this up. Who makes the invite, pays. Itís that simple. Itís not about showing off, or thinking she needs your money, or whatever other nonsense people will say about the topic. You invited them, means you are picking up the check. What is so complicated"?

I think some femmes may be uncomfortable with this because they think 'something' might be expect if they allow the butch to pay! An OFOS butch would never, in a million years, expect anything in return IMHO!

If you're out with someone who gives you the impression they'd expect that, RUN FOR THE HILLS and F A S T !

Agreed, well said buddy.

Chad
04-28-2017, 05:53 PM
As a native Texan being polite and respectful was a big part of my education and environment.

Holding the elevator door for anyone, helping someone with a stroller on an escalator, opening doors, giving up my seat to someone less fortunate, smiling at a stranger and saying hi.

My parents taught me to be a gentleman to everyone that I encountered.

I am old fashioned and old school in all my relationships. However, I am not "leave it to beaver's" dad I do not come home from work and sit in the recliner expecting to be waited on. I am a worker.

When relationships uphold openess, trust, respect, and politeness as the standard I am very easy to get along with.


:cowboy:

Bootsandheels
10-31-2017, 10:21 PM
This thread deserves a big BUMP and let's hope for some lively discussion as well! As a self proclaimed OFOS femme (we are a rare breed methinks) I have had some interesting experiences as of late within the last month. I was getting to know someone first online, then in person and I thought for all intents and purposes that we were dating. Unfortunately, interest in each other waned once we spent enough time together.
Save for one breakfast that I paid for, she paid for everything else with the exception of an event that I personally had invited her to that I will be reimbursing her for as she kindly got the tickets for us as I was super busy that day. What I am having an issue with is her bringing up the fact that she "paid for everything". It made me feel like I had missed some secret message that I was supposed to be paying for my 1/2 or offering to go Dutch on things. This butch KNEW I was OFOS and delighted in that fact. I also had at the very beginning ASKED if I should pay for my meal to be crystal clear that she was ok with paying. She wouldn't hear of it, even though I was more than willing. You know, sometimes, even if I am thinking we are dating when it's early days and brand new, sometimes it's nice to offer and not expect the butch to pay for everything right off the bat you know what I mean? I am very sensitive to this and always check in. I have NEVER ever EVER had a butch that I dated briefly (and no there was absolutely no sexual intimacy or expectation of that) come back at me with this statement of "I paid for pretty much everything except the one breakfast". Wow...I am a little dumbfounded and confused here. If a butch shows up on the very first meet and greet date with a bouquet of absolutely gorgeous flowers and proceeds to invite you out to dinner and invite or say let's go to....whatever restaurant/coffee place/etc. I take that to mean you are DATING ME especially if you KNOW I am an OFOS and you might not have dated an OFOS femme much in the past, but you were delighted to have found one TO date! Honestly...help a femme out here...I am just wanting to make sure I didn't miss anything! I don't date a lot and I had high hopes for this butch, but when she said that to me, it felt like she was implying that I should have been more sensitive and offered to pay for more or 1/2 of whatever she invited me to do! It's left a bad taste in my mouth and I just want to know there are OFOS butches out there that get it! I'm so selective in who I date, and I am so glad I nipped this in the bud because it was obviously going to be more thorny down the road! Please do NOT ask me who because a true OFOS lady would NEVER do that! Thank you for reading, for your input and feedback!

~ocean
10-31-2017, 11:35 PM
Boots it's a undefined line these days ~ but if she did the asking out ,she should have picked up the tab unless she said differently. Obviously you seem very independent and wouldn't mind paying your way.. be glad you found out she sounds like a little girl btwn the sheets to be that petty. Maybe it would be in your class of butch' to look into gay .professional woman. Here in Boston it's a common way to meet people with more desirable character. A true OFOS butch are RARE !

firegal
10-31-2017, 11:37 PM
This thread deserves a big BUMP and let's hope for some lively discussion as well! As a self proclaimed OFOS femme (we are a rare breed methinks) I have had some interesting experiences as of late within the last month. I was getting to know someone first online, then in person and I thought for all intents and purposes that we were dating. Unfortunately, interest in each other waned once we spent enough time together.
Save for one breakfast that I paid for, she paid for everything else with the exception of an event that I personally had invited her to that I will be reimbursing her for as she kindly got the tickets for us as I was super busy that day. What I am having an issue with is her bringing up the fact that she "paid for everything". It made me feel like I had missed some secret message that I was supposed to be paying for my 1/2 or offering to go Dutch on things. This butch KNEW I was OFOS and delighted in that fact. I also had at the very beginning ASKED if I should pay for my meal to be crystal clear that she was ok with paying. She wouldn't hear of it, even though I was more than willing. You know, sometimes, even if I am thinking we are dating when it's early days and brand new, sometimes it's nice to offer and not expect the butch to pay for everything right off the bat you know what I mean? I am very sensitive to this and always check in. I have NEVER ever EVER had a butch that I dated briefly (and no there was absolutely no sexual intimacy or expectation of that) come back at me with this statement of "I paid for pretty much everything except the one breakfast". Wow...I am a little dumbfounded and confused here. If a butch shows up on the very first meet and greet date with a bouquet of absolutely gorgeous flowers and proceeds to invite you out to dinner and invite or say let's go to....whatever restaurant/coffee place/etc. I take that to mean you are DATING ME especially if you KNOW I am an OFOS and you might not have dated an OFOS femme much in the past, but you were delighted to have found one TO date! Honestly...help a femme out here...I am just wanting to make sure I didn't miss anything! I don't date a lot and I had high hopes for this butch, but when she said that to me, it felt like she was implying that I should have been more sensitive and offered to pay for more or 1/2 of whatever she invited me to do! It's left a bad taste in my mouth and I just want to know there are OFOS butches out there that get it! I'm so selective in who I date, and I am so glad I nipped this in the bud because it was obviously going to be more thorny down the road! Please do NOT ask me who because a true OFOS lady would NEVER do that! Thank you for reading, for your input and feedback!

Yikes... will only speak for me.... ofos is rigid in those of us that claim that fame. flowers as you stated in your situation in the beginning seem to be a i wanna sex you! following their responses after that....

otherwise...

for me a OFOS or what ever just to me a friggin BUTCH wines and dines my person of interest.....any lady!

if by some chance i couldnt afford to pay for the date... i have a choice to tell such and explain i feel and believe i should pay to give her a chance for input... or crap if you cant afford it....brother dont....or get a 2nd job..

their are so many things that dont cost a arm and a leg....but due dilligence rises above!

OFOS ..... old school. I cannot speak for the more recent school... maybe it is different!

flowers...dinner ... cards... little things like candy silly gift are the easy and normal parts of ofos.....

yanno some folks dont get the OFOS part and it is always telling if they dont... the same as folks that done get the butch-femme dynamic... same as those that dont get the stone butch-stone femme dynamic....

this is why this site works for so many of us... who gets who we are.


hugs to you boots!

firegal
10-31-2017, 11:39 PM
PS.... Boots.. hang in there!.... hugs

Bootsandheels
10-31-2017, 11:47 PM
I've been around A LONG time and even I didn't know the history of fashion and its effects on why doors were opened, etc! I learned something new today and that's always a good thing:hangloose:

Boots it's a undefined line these days ~ but if she did the asking out ,she should have picked up the tab unless she said differently. Obviously you seem very independent and wouldn't mind paying your way.. be glad you found out she sounds like a little girl btwn the sheets to be that petty. Maybe it would be in your class of butch' to look into gay .professional woman. Here in Boston it's a common way to meet people with more desirable character. A true OFOS butch are RARE !


EXACTLY! Thank you Ocean for posting this, and YES I am a very strong independent fierce OFOS femme. If she hadn't also been showing all the other signs of chivalry openly (opening all doors, shielding me on the sidewalk, hand at the small of my back to help guide me across a busy street in my 3.5" heels...etc.) I would have thought mayyyybe I should rethink it all. But she did invite and ask every.single.time. I believe you are right about between the sheets...and YES...OFOS butches are more rare than we are I am certain of it! Sigh...a girl can dream and check the professional lesbian meet ups...LOL ;)

BullDog
11-01-2017, 12:02 AM
I do consider myself to be an old school butch, and I definitely think it's wrong for anyone to try to hold something over your head after the fact. Most old school butches I know - including myself - it is our pleasure to pay for a date and definitely not a burden or something to throw back at someone if things don't go our way later.

I also don't think it is just specifically old school or a dating situation. If I pay for something, or give a gift or help someone out in some way it is genuinely because I want to do it and there are no strings attached. I'm not going to complain about something later after the fact when I did it because I wanted to do it in the first place and it was my decision and pleasure to do it. If someone wants double dutch or some other type of dating arrangement then it's their right to express that too, but throwing something back in your face after the fact is definitely rude. So perhaps this person isn't an old school butch, but I also think it is rude no matter how they i.d.

Edit: I also think there could be situations where a butch was very much old school but perhaps had a limited income or some other situation that made it difficult to always pay and there could still be a strong old school dynamic. It is more about how you treat someone and how you conduct yourself, but paying for a date is usually something an old school butch genuinely does take pleasure in when they can do it.

Bootsandheels
11-01-2017, 12:18 AM
I do consider myself to be an old school butch, and I definitely think it's wrong for anyone to try to hold something over your head after the fact. Most old school butches I know - including myself - it is our pleasure to pay for a date and definitely not a burden or something to throw back at someone if things don't go our way later.

I also don't think it is just specifically old school or a dating situation. If I pay for something, or give a gift or help someone out in some way it is genuinely because I want to do it and there are no strings attached. I'm not going to complain about something later after the fact when I did it because I wanted to do it in the first place and it was my decision and pleasure to do it. If someone wants double dutch or some other type of dating arrangement then it's their right to express that too, but throwing something back in your face after the fact is definitely rude. So perhaps this person isn't an old school butch, but I also think it is rude no matter how they i.d.

Edit: I also think there could be situations where a butch was very much old school but perhaps had a limited income or some other situation that made it difficult to always pay and there could still be a strong old school dynamic. It is more about how you treat someone and how you conduct yourself, but paying for a date is usually something an old school butch genuinely does take pleasure in when they can do it.

Thank you so much for posting this Bulldog, much appreciated, and thank you for validating me. Your last paragraph was exactly why I was confused, because this pleasure was always evident in other dating situations and I thought it was quite petty. Even though this butch thought she was OFOS, she definitely is not. I am always very sensitive to finances too...and it is more about how you are treated than how much is being spent. It's about the heart and soul...the connection and magic of the dynamic!

firegal
11-01-2017, 12:20 AM
For fucks sake i cant rep u Bull... i agree whole heartily .....lolcomputers.... WTF

Bootsandheels
11-01-2017, 12:23 AM
PS.... Boots.. hang in there!.... hugs

Thank you for posting firegal...love what you shared. Hugs backatcha!!!

homoe
11-01-2017, 09:06 AM
I do consider myself to be an old school butch, and I definitely think it's wrong for anyone to try to hold something over your head after the fact. Most old school butches I know - including myself - it is our pleasure to pay for a date and definitely not a burden or something to throw back at someone if things don't go our way later.

I also don't think it is just specifically old school or a dating situation. If I pay for something, or give a gift or help someone out in some way it is genuinely because I want to do it and there are no strings attached. I'm not going to complain about something later after the fact when I did it because I wanted to do it in the first place and it was my decision and pleasure to do it. If someone wants double dutch or some other type of dating arrangement then it's their right to express that too, but throwing something back in your face after the fact is definitely rude. So perhaps this person isn't an old school butch, but I also think it is rude no matter how they i.d.

Edit: I also think there could be situations where a butch was very much old school but perhaps had a limited income or some other situation that made it difficult to always pay and there could still be a strong old school dynamic. It is more about how you treat someone and how you conduct yourself, but paying for a date is usually something an old school butch genuinely does take pleasure in when they can do it.

Very well put..:hangloose:

clay
11-01-2017, 10:02 AM
This thread deserves a big BUMP and let's hope for some lively discussion as well! As a self proclaimed OFOS femme (we are a rare breed methinks) I have had some interesting experiences as of late within the last month. I was getting to know someone first online, then in person and I thought for all intents and purposes that we were dating. Unfortunately, interest in each other waned once we spent enough time together.
Save for one breakfast that I paid for, she paid for everything else with the exception of an event that I personally had invited her to that I will be reimbursing her for as she kindly got the tickets for us as I was super busy that day. What I am having an issue with is her bringing up the fact that she "paid for everything". It made me feel like I had missed some secret message that I was supposed to be paying for my 1/2 or offering to go Dutch on things. This butch KNEW I was OFOS and delighted in that fact. I also had at the very beginning ASKED if I should pay for my meal to be crystal clear that she was ok with paying. She wouldn't hear of it, even though I was more than willing. You know, sometimes, even if I am thinking we are dating when it's early days and brand new, sometimes it's nice to offer and not expect the butch to pay for everything right off the bat you know what I mean? I am very sensitive to this and always check in. I have NEVER ever EVER had a butch that I dated briefly (and no there was absolutely no sexual intimacy or expectation of that) come back at me with this statement of "I paid for pretty much everything except the one breakfast". Wow...I am a little dumbfounded and confused here. If a butch shows up on the very first meet and greet date with a bouquet of absolutely gorgeous flowers and proceeds to invite you out to dinner and invite or say let's go to....whatever restaurant/coffee place/etc. I take that to mean you are DATING ME especially if you KNOW I am an OFOS and you might not have dated an OFOS femme much in the past, but you were delighted to have found one TO date! Honestly...help a femme out here...I am just wanting to make sure I didn't miss anything! I don't date a lot and I had high hopes for this butch, but when she said that to me, it felt like she was implying that I should have been more sensitive and offered to pay for more or 1/2 of whatever she invited me to do! It's left a bad taste in my mouth and I just want to know there are OFOS butches out there that get it! I'm so selective in who I date, and I am so glad I nipped this in the bud because it was obviously going to be more thorny down the road! Please do NOT ask me who because a true OFOS lady would NEVER do that! Thank you for reading, for your input and feedback!

((((((((((((((((((((((((((Boots))))))))))))))))))) ))
First off let me say I am so very sorry that you had this bad experience!

There ARE still OFOS Butches left (yes, I AM one of them!!) and we are out there, just perhaps not in close proximity.

I want to strongly disagree with "bringing flowers on first date may suggest an "I wanna sex you"....OH hell NO! Bringing flowers is in no way a sign of expecting anything....at least not in MY book!!! I bring a bouquet just to say "I was thinking of you when I saw these and wanted to surprise you". I tend to ask questions and PAY attention to little hints a woman may drop regarding her likes, dislikes, etc.

I am also one who will make it crystal clear whom is paying for the meal...and yes, sometimes, a femme does and will ask me & state clearly "I am paying, I asked". No matter whom does the asking, it should be made precisely clear whom IS paying or if "dutch" or "double dutch".

Being OFOS, in MY book, is NOT about money or status....it is about my core being..who I am deep inside...it is my moral compass...my integrity....my true North....in how I interact with an OFOS Femme and how I make her feel..protected, secure, appreciated, valued as an OFOS Femme AND a woman. It is about how I made her feel..as a lady...as a woman..and enhanced her feelings of being respected for herself. I would hope she has a smile on her face & joy in her heart..and want to see me..again..and again..because she felt it in her heart.

My manners of being an OFOS butch include, but not limited to, RESPECTING her as a woman, opening a door, pulling out her seat, helping her to don & doff a coat, OR giving mine should she need it...placing my hand at small of her back while walking, walking on outside of her in public, and walking her to her door after a date....opening it, and giving her a hug & a kiss on the cheek (if amenable to both of us), then going my way. A meal has never, nor will it ever, equate to "expecting sex" afterwards. I wouldn't ever be one to make mention of "how much" or even "how little" may have been spent. My focus would instead be on "how interesting, how enjoyable, ho2w good she felt inside, and how much of HER likes did I include on any outings....considering her likes/dislikes.

I am very old fashioned in my dating someone. I am very respectful of a woman. I will not engage in intimacy until much later (months) after starting to see someone. It is very important to be into enjoying one another, getting to know each other's likes/dislikes, and having that mutual respect to wait. Comedian Steve Harvey once said something to this effect...when you get a new job, you have to wait three months before you get benefits". If we would approach dating as such, waiting a decent time, and focusing instead on the person, relationships might stand a better chance to survive.

There are really no easy answers to things brought up, just each of us have our own ideals, thoughts, and personal opinions. These are some of mine.

OFOS Butch and OFOS Femme does not EVER equate to whom spends the most or least, it isn't about $$ at all but rather who I am in my core....how I treat a woman, how she treats me, mutual respect, being kind, courteous, respectful, having manners, and just plain being true to my inner being, and how I make a woman feel is of utmost importance. I am not a showy kind of butch but rather pay attention to the little things she says. Once we are dating & enjoying each other, I enjoy handwritten notes, a single rose..just because...cooking for her, reading poetry if she likes that, watching a sunset OR sunrise, walking along a waterfront if close by, packing a picnic of her likes and sitting somewhere to enjoy it. None of these puts anyone out $$ so to speak.

A first date should be planned AFTER an initial meet & greet. Sometimes folks get these two mixed up. Agreeing to a public venue to meet the first time, to me, is NOT a date but rather a get to know you kind of meeting, to see if there is any interest to go further.

Boots, know there are a lot of us left. I happen to know you are a wonderful, very classy, stand up kind of OFOS Femme and I know you are a very hard worker, you are very selective, and you deserve a wonderful OFOS Butch....wishing you all the very best and thanks for opening up this dialogue. ((((((((((((((Bootsie))))))))))))))

BullDog
11-01-2017, 11:03 AM
I don't know where I came up with double dutch - maybe because there are two people on a date? I'm pretty sure it's just "going dutch" where each person pays their share. Anyway, when I hear Dutch all I can think of is dutch apple pie! :tease:

girl_dee
11-01-2017, 11:28 AM
I don't know where I came up with double dutch - maybe because there are two people on a date? I'm pretty sure it's just "going dutch" where each person pays their share. Anyway, when I hear Dutch all I can think of is dutch apple pie! :tease:

Double Dutch is a jump rope technique!

kittygrrl
11-01-2017, 01:25 PM
I don't think I've ever had to figure out who does what for whom (on a date) because by the time we get to the dating phase we know each other well enough to understand what we can expect from each other. It's stressful not have a clear understanding of your date's expectations. I don't imagine most dates go well under ambiguous circumstances.

Femmewench
11-01-2017, 01:55 PM
The one thing I haven't seen included in the list of OFOS behavior is standing when you're meeting/greeting someone. I have been surprised at how infrequently I've been the recipient of that courtesy even from self identified OFOS butches. The exception is work related. Both men and women I've been meeting/greeting usually do stand to shake my hand.

I don't expect a date to stand each time I leave a table in a restaurant, but I would be impressed. That seems to have fallen out of favor.

And when did helping a woman with her chair stop being a thing? I can remember my dad helping my grandmother (a widow) and then my mom when we ate out. It's the most helpful thing you can do if we're in a skirt or dress.

girl_dee
11-01-2017, 04:14 PM
i consider myself an old school femme. Maybe its my age, maybe its because i am scared of the next generation. i think our dynamic is become lost in with the battle for our rights. Gaining our rights is a great thing of course, but i think most couples just see themselves as gay, not BF. SO i am holding on to it!

What OFOS means to me is not being helped with my chair, or standing when i exit and enter the room, but simple manners. For me, sometimes those things cause me to feel like the *weaker* of the BF dynamic. If i get to the door first, i hold it open regardless of who is coming in. i can put myself in a car, i donít like being tucked in there. i like when my butch asks me what i would like for dinner and there is soft conversation before the meal. i like to know my butch is present with me during that time.

i donít really want to my butch to become comfortable losing good old fashioned manners after the first date. i would like my butch to have some pride in their appearance when taking me out.

i would like to feel special, and make them feel special.

Are these things really Old School?

Washingtonienne
11-01-2017, 07:28 PM
As a femme on wheels, I suppose I have a little bit of a different take on why I'm old school. Growing up with disabilities taught me the stark difference between "coddled" and "loved", and it also taught me to watch for when I was being treated as *too* fragile. First and foremost, I want to be loved, protected, and respected, not mollycoddled as if I were to shatter at any moment. (Hint: I won't.) I need to be able to have a riveting discourse with my butch/transguy, engage my brain, but also know it's okay to ask for help reaching things on the top shelf. Or help with spiders. (I'm hopeless with those.) I like knowing the person I'm with not only remembers how hard we've fought as a community for the rights we have, but I know I can count on to keep fighting the good fight when necessary, and knows that we PwD are still fighting for basic physical access to everyday things like sidewalks. I want to know that if I'm asked out to dinner, I'm not going to get to the restaurant and discover it's inaccessible. That would be already checked.

And, yeah, aesthetics...I like to be free to wear my skirts, dresses, and stilettos, because once upon a time I was chided for my girly choices by others. I wasn't "gay enough" to them -- whatever that means. And finally, YES, I like to be with a butch/transguy who knows how to dress for the occasion -- even if the occasion is just us looking awesome together. A sports coat, a nice shirt, and a little cologne go a loooong way sometimes. A tie goes even farther. A bow tie? Aces.

kittygrrl
11-01-2017, 11:44 PM
OFOS comes from the heart and soul. It's a manifestation of who you are and what you value..not a rigid set of rules and manners you feel obliged to follow but have no personal belief in...There are various types of relationships and people believe or seek what appeals to them. Labels are convenient but can become destructive if you use them to limit options for yourself or others...Understanding who you are and what you want is comforting and affirming..and if you can find a like minded soul-heaven

Gemme
11-02-2017, 03:35 AM
Double Dutch is a jump rope technique!

wI46rsQR83k

Oh, to be young again!

girl_dee
11-02-2017, 04:17 AM
OFOS comes from the heart and soul. It's a manifestation of who you are and what you value..not a rigid set of rules and manners you feel obliged to follow but have no personal belief in...There are various types of relationships and people believe or seek what appeals to them. Labels are convenient but can become destructive if you use them to limit options for yourself or others...Understanding who you are and what you want is comforting and affirming..and if you can find a like minded soul-heaven

i agree, its the BF dynamic that i am starting to see as Old School :(

CherylNYC
11-10-2017, 01:15 PM
...What OFOS means to me is not being helped with my chair, or standing when i exit and enter the room, but simple manners. For me, sometimes those things cause me to feel like the *weaker* of the BF dynamic. If i get to the door first, i hold it open regardless of who is coming in. i can put myself in a car, i donít like being tucked in there. i like when my butch asks me what i would like for dinner and there is soft conversation before the meal. i like to know my butch is present with me during that time...





I may not be anyone else's idea of OFOS, but I won't have much erotic friction with my date unless she radiates that special kind of undefinable masculine energy that I feel can only be described as 'Old School Butch'. She may or may not pull out my chair. She may or may not walk on the street side, (protective side), when we're out together. There are so many traditionally masculine actions an old school butch may or may not take, and none of those actions qualifies or disqualifies her in my book. Because, frankly, there is no book. I think it varies from person to person, from relationship to relationship, and from situation to situation. As has been written above, simple manners are always expected. Crass actions are always crass. That has less to do with being OFOS than being raised well, or raising ones self well.

Unless previous arrangements have been made, I always pay my own way on a date. Always have, always will. I've dated butch women who were accustomed to dating femmes who would never dream of opening up their purse when the check arrived. I always let them know that it's their job to let me know if they're asking me out on a special date where they're going to pay for everything. Then I can agree to or decline the offer.

My most recent gf was not particularly comfortable with my expectations around paying, and she created all sorts of friction by disrespecting my boundaries. It's rude to violate agreed upon boundaries, and those violations definitely contributed a bit to the demise of that relationship. Other 'traditional' things my ex gf did worked really well for me, though. It's a lot harder to drive in 4" stilettos than in masculine footwear. Not to mention that it's way too easy to damage those pretty high heels while driving in NYC traffic. I was happy that she wanted to do the driving when we were dressed up to go out. (This from a woman frequently documented riding a large displacement motorcycle in NYC Pride Parades while wearing 4" stilettos!). It's not that I let her drive because she's the butch and that's the OFOS way. And it certainly wasn't because she was better at it. It was because she was just as invested in protecting my shoes as I was. My food allergies embarrass me, but I must be very careful when ordering at a restaurant. At a certain point when it looks like I may not be able to find something on the menu that won't make me very sick, I'm ready to give up. I just hate calling attention to myself that way. It worked quite well for me to discuss menu options with my ex and then let her order. She enjoyed ordering for us, and I didn't have to face the possibility of friction with a waiter who might not understand the gravity of my food requirements. I enjoyed being protected that way, too, but I never wanted anyone to order for me before my food allergies became so numerous and severe. I recently went out with a group of friends which included the above-mentioned ex. She ordered for me. It made me giggle a bit, but I was fine with it.

I feel that a reflexive adherence to mid 20th century norms for male-female interactions is a recipe for me to feel disempowered, but choosing the rituals that feel right for myself and right for the dynamic between myself and the butch I'm dating is quite empowering. Once again, we choose which rituals work for us in our individual situations. I could never adhere to rigid standards regarding who does what based entirely on gender identity. Does that disqualify me from the OFOS club?

girl_dee
11-10-2017, 04:04 PM
I feel that a reflexive adherence to mid 20th century norms for male-female interactions is a recipe for me to feel disempowered, but choosing the rituals that feel right for myself and right for the dynamic between myself and the butch I'm dating is quite empowering. Once again, we choose which rituals work for us in our individual situations. I could never adhere to rigid standards regarding who does what based entirely on gender identity. Does that disqualify me from the OFOS club?

Hell no you are not disqualified!! You are a card carrying member!

In my world my butch is also my Dominant, so we have a whole different set of *rules* if you will, from many folks. We define them.

Some people cannot understand how empowering being in my position is, but its incredible. Finding the balance for us, is quite erotic.

i will never adhere to a set of what i feel is antiquated expectations set forth by people who i do not answer to.

homoe
03-31-2018, 06:29 PM
BUMP..............