Your relationship with your mom.

[Merlin]

Do you and your mom get on ?

My mom has supported me through everything. I feel blessed.

She accepted I was gay.
She accepted I am Buch (that took a bit longer)

I am from a large catholic family,i have been lucky as they have all been great.

[Amber2010]

You are so very lucky
I have not talked to my mom in over two years.
She can not accept me ant I have now grown use to never talking to her anymore. I am pretty sure I have closed off.

[ruffryder]

My mom was my best friend. She passed away a few years ago. She accepted me for who I was. She accepted my g/f as her own child. She was great. I was blessed to have her in my life and instill the qualities that she did. :praying:

[Just_G]

I have been so very blessed to have one of the best moms on this earth! She has never tried to change a thing about me...just loves me for me and has always accepted my friends at her house when they have no place to go on holidays. (she calls them "your little friends", like I am still in 2nd grade..lol)

She helps me when and if I need it, watches my dog Frankie when I need her to...though half the time she leaves me voicemails wanting to know if Frankie can come spend the night with grandma..lol. We take trips to Big Lots to shop every so often and when people say we look alike, she tells them she is my sister and just giggles...she is so funny. She always tells me how proud she is of me, hugs me, tells me she loves me, and is one of the most positive, loving people I have ever known. She has been such a great influence on me over the years.

I'd say that my mom is one of my best friends. She will come to the shop and let my dad have it if he isn't treating me right. (they are divorced) She works with the handicap children in her church and treats all the neighborhood kids like family; taking ice cream out to them, making doll clothes for the one little girl, and lets them play in her yard so they aren't in the street.

She is amazing...I could go on and on....

[MissPriss]

My birth mother and I really do not have a relationship. I used to not even talk to her because I was mad that she gave me away and kept my twin, only after years of thinking it over I realized that she is a great woman and that choice made me who I am and allowed me to have the best MOM ever.

[jelli]

My birth mother has never really been a mother to me, but she has loved my three brothers. I don't understand it. there is quite a bit of pain and anger associated with her.

I have gone back and forth with:
"well if I do______ than maybe she'll love me too"
"what's wrong with me"
"I don't need her"
"Perhaps I am asking for what she can not give"
"This has nothing to do with me".

Although I do not feel as if we will ever have the relationship that I have longed for, I do think we can find some common ground.

[Bard]

I keep coming back to this and it is kind of a hard place for me I lost my mother at age 9 but really I never had a relationship with her and it took me a long time to come to terms with it... she was close to my brother and they had a relationship I envyed but my mom had a lot of issues she was a functional drunk and by not getting involved with me she saved me and she loved me enough to find a woman to love and raise me my Nanny.. I still wonder would she be proud of how I turned out and I asked my brother what he thought his answer to me was that HE was proud of me and he is sure mom is to

[RavynTuqiri]

Hmmm...tough question....with being lesbian, she finally came around...took a few years.

We do not get along well, and right now (the past two years now) haven't gotten along at all. She is judgmental and overly critical and has to have the last word in every conversation. She can never be wrong.

We did not have a relationship when I was growing up...she also was an alcoholic....but the experience made me who I am today and I understand why she is the way she is (she also had a difficult childhood) so I can forgive her.

After she came to terms with my being gay we had a period of about 5 years where we did actually get along (for the most part) so I am thankful for the times when we are able to get along. Oddly she can not be happy with both my sister and me at the same time. It is simply my turn in the dog house.

Ironically...she has accepted me being gay....she can't accept me being funny :P

[RadiantYearning]

My mother and I have an extremely strained relationship ... which, oddly enough, has nothing to do with me being gay.

When I came out, I didn't really give my family the opportunity to reject me because I was gay. It was love me or live without me. I had a zero tolerance attitude to anything less. I've been out for 15 years now and up until a few years ago my mother would still make comments to the sound of, "she's just going through a phase." Still, despite her dellusions, she has always been absolutely accepting of me and my partners and has treated every single one of them with respect and accepted them into our family just as any other sibling's significant other would be accepted.

The strain on our relationship comes from the chaos that exists in our family now. One of my siblings has been enabled so extensively by her that there is little time for the remaining siblings and grandchildren. I go out of my way to invite her to events that my children take place in otherwise they too would never see or hear from her. I keep telling myself, it is what it is ... but no matter how many times I say it, it never feels any better.

[Soft*Silver]

my mother had a difficult time parenting. She was obviously not loved well herself as a child and thus, had problems loving her own children. Yet, she kept a roof over our heads, food on our table and good beds to sleep in. She was cruel with her humour and distant with her Truths. She damaged me but who doesnt get damaged along the way. I am not willing to beat the woman up any more for what she couldnt do for me. Its over. I did therapy and got over it. I love her nontheless tho truthfully, while she was alive and hurting me, it was very hard to keep that love in the forefront.

Being gay was not an issue with her. Her first words out of her mouth when i told her, was "I didnt raise you to be no queer". I responded that no, she hadnt. She raised me to be a good person, a loving mother, a hard worker, a decent citizen, etc. I just also happened to be gay.Because she realized she wasnt to "blame", she moved past this initial stage of shock and fear and anger. As she met my partners, and realized we didnt have three heads, she came to accept us for who we were, not what she had feared. She loved them each. And she loved me, tho again, thats hard to remember but I still know its true...

[Phyl]

I have always had a great relationship with my whole family. I have always been just a boi. I have five sisters and i guess i was the boi they never had. My Mother is my rockstar she has always just let me be the man i was meant to be.

[Ebon]

My mom is weird. I don't really talk to her but for reasons other than me being queer. She thinks that I'm too white or not black enough. Our relationship isn't like it used to be but again it's not because of the queer thing it's because I don't give her money. We used to have a good relationship though, when I gave her money. lol Also if I need anything I'm pretty certain that I can count on her if she has it.

[Gemme]

My mom's been gone for a few years now. She initially had a bit of a hard time with the gay thing (she didn't make it to my self awareness of being Queer) but that was really neither here nor there for us. We had so many other issues at hand. She loved me and I knew that and I loved her, but due to a lot of her decisions in life that affected me, I carried a pretty deep-seated dose of resentment towards her and, frankly, didn't like her very much. I think she knew that until she didn't. Thankfully, for her, as her illnesses progressed, her memories faded until only the ones that she conjured up in her head existed. I knew she did the best that she could at the time and I do give her credit for that. I just wish any of many circumstances had been different.

[Abigail Crabby]

My Mom and I had a weird relationship most of our lives.

When I came out to her it changed for the better dramatically.

She loved my partners and accepted them as part of the family just as she had my daughters father.

She's gone now, but there are three people who blessed my life as partners and she is missed by them as much as she is missed by me.

I was lucky to have her support.

[lipstixgal]

I didn't have a very good relationship with my mother(she is deceased). She didn't accept me when I told her I wanted to be with women. I never became the doctor she wanted and therefore was probably not good enough but I have gotten through all of this with the help of friends and therapy so I am happy now and with a great girl that I think my mother would even like.

[EnderD_503]

I've always had a good relationship with my mother, partly perhaps because we were each other's support growing up with my father. I think we continue to be each other's support even now that I'm in my 20s and he's completely out of the picture. I'm not sure that she really understands my queer sexuality. That's ok by me. She's slowly coming to understand why/how I identify as male, but it was really tough for her and it still is. I guess for a long time she thought I was going to grow up to be non-feminine and unique woman who would go on to disprove what women are/are not capable of physically and in other aspects of life. She thought that having a male identity would just turn me into another jock or typical guy or something. Evidently, that's not who I am or what I hope to be, but I'm still waiting for the day when she truly knows and believes that. I think she's slowly coming to understand that. I think as she continues to see that I want to maintain my visibility as an XX-born male identity, she'll understand more and more that it's not about being "a normal/stereotypical guy," but that I really do want to change things instead of just disappearing into normalcy and gender complacency.

She's making an effort and has been accepting, and that's what matters to me most. She is really the only blood relative that I have regular communication with and who I really count as family (other than one cousin), so I'm glad that we still have a good relationship.

[diamondrose]

My mom has always been very accepting of who I am. Shes always says "as long as I am happy." Sadly, for other reasons other than my being a gay woman, we don't have a great relationship(lack thereof). My mom is a distant type person scooting along in her own little world. She has her spurts when she gets in her "family time" groove, but those moments are far a few between. Its just who and how she is as a person. Despite that, I love her fully and she loves me just as the person I am. I cherish our rare moments together.

[NJFemmie]

I was very close to my mother - attached to her hip kind of close. One of the things I always loved and respected her for was that she always spoke to me as an adult. She never sugar coated things and told me whatever she felt straight from the hip. She was very big on emotionally preparing her children for "life" - since her own was incredibly hard and tumultuous.

My mother died when I was 14 - so I have no idea how she would have reacted to my lifestyle. My mother was a progressive woman for her time - in thought and action - so I would like to think that she would have been okay with it. My father, who was more the strict, old school, neanderthal-minded kind of man knew about my lifestyle - it was something that was rarely discussed - but at the same time, it was never a negative thing either. So, my logic is - if he was okay with it - my mom probably would have been.

[deb_U_taunt]

I have a great relationship with my mom. I put her through hell when I was a teenager and being gay would be the last of her worries. She truly only wants me to be happy. I am blessed with an open-minded grandmother, too.
I talk to both daily. They are 70 and 90 and hard to think of my life without them.

[Massive]

My Mum is one of My best friends ever, she's there for me no matter how much of an arsehole I am, she defends me when anyone is homophobic or thinks they can bully me, she stands by me, hell, she took me to Pride this year and had more fun and made more friends than I did!
She often asks questions and I am always honest with her, so we've had moments when she's regretted asking lol like when she asked me why I wanted the triskelion inked on me, that was the first time I've ever stunned her into silence...
Firstly she asked what it meant, so I explained about BDSM, so she next asked if that was what I liked, I told her yes, so we walked in silence for about ten minutes and she pointed into a shoe shop and commented on what nice sandals where in the window, I swear that's the only time I've had to fight laughing so hard that it hurt, bless her, she's the sweetest woman you could ever meet, she will talk to anyone, but she really only knows about generalised stuff, but genuinely wants to know about the things she has either never heard of or has no knowledge of, so when I do explain, you can see the thoughts running through her mind usually along the lines of "fuck, why did I ask that???"
:cheesy:
I love my Mum, and I tell her constantly, because she is the sweetest, kindest, most generous person I know, she's even adopted my chosen Family. I couldn't ask for a better Mother or friend, ever.
I know I am blessed!

[cuddlyfemme]

My mom and I have never, ever gotten along. We're like oil and water (or is that vinegar???) I've never been good enough for her. She always wanted me to become a doctor, lawyer or some sort of profession like that. When I came out she wasn't accepting at all.....she was (and still is) furious and is upset that I gave her no grandchildren. My mom acts one way towards me when others are around but acts a totally different way when its just me and her or me, her and my immediate family

[*Anya*]

This is a very heavy subject for me.

My mom was a foster child because my Grandmother was thrown out of her own family for getting pregnant and my GM had to work as a domestic to survive. The foster family was abusive and she was the scapegoat for the other 5 kids, as she was the oldest.

It damaged my mother and she was unable to be a loving, caring or nurturing person to her only daughter. She then met & married my dad, also from a cold, withholding family of origin.

I believed at an unconscious level, she identified with me and in collusion with my dad, made me the family scapegoat. My younger brothers escaped their wrath.

I used to pray as a child that something would happen to them and I would become an orphan and adopted by a mother like some of my friends had *nurturing*loving*.

Fast forward to the day I told my mom I was in love with my best friend, a wonderful person my mom really liked and that I was gay. She would not speak with me for 15 years. I wad uninvited from my brothers wedding, my brothers would not speak me & the scapegoat was out of the family dynamics.

As we all aged, my mother became sick, had surgeries and as usually happens- I am the only child near them. I help them because there is no one else. I accept that it is what it is. Things that they say still can sting though I have developed a much thicker, protective hide with them.
We were at a family and friends dinner the other day and my dad proceeded to tell the guests all about the "big vacation" when he took the "whole family, wives and grandkids to Hawaii a couple of years ago".

Neither of them noticed I was not included in the big trip (nor did I know it even happened!).

This thread asked about mom but my mother is totally intertwined with my dad. They are one person to me.

When my mom decided to speak with me again, the door was totally shut on my private life. She/they do not ask and do not want to know. I discuss the weather, groceries, etc. I just pretend with them, they pretend with me.
They are old now and I do not expect anything to change at this stage of the game.

[*Anya*]

I just noticed this was the butch zone. I am sorry, all I saw was "mom". I hope it was OK I invaded the space.

[SnackTime]

I am very close to my mother, especially for the last 20 years. We had MAJOR issues when I first came out and we did not talk for approximately a year. My family was faced with almost losing her in a car accident and it hit me the hardest. When something like this happens it changes our perspective on EVERYTHING. We repaired everything within a few months after the unthinkable and now we are closer than ever. She is truly an amazing woman! She is my hero and I am blessed to have a second chance with her!

[Oiler41]

My mom and I were pretty close. When I came out at age 16, things didn't go so smoothly. Coming out at 16, in Mississippi, in the perfect upper middle class, Republican, 3 child family was not easy. Things were pretty bumpy until I turned 18 and moved out (thinking I had the world by the tail, only to learn later that IT had ME). But she never turned her back on me; no one in my family did.

Within only a few years time, my mother came to accept me for who I am. After a while, it got to the point such that when I was living away from her, she would keep me caught up on the gay gossip in the little town in Mississippi I grew up in, lol. Years later, when I was getting ready to head to D.C. to march with the uniformed military contingent at the March on Washington in 1993, she was actually telling her friends about it, and again for the Millenium March on Washington.

We still had our rough moments over the years, but when she passed in 2007, I lost my greatest ally, advocate and supporter. She was always there no matter what. I miss her still. She was a great lady.

Glynn

[Strappie]

My Mom is my everything I don't need to say much more. She is my Rock and my families Rock!

I can only hope to one day I find a partner just as amazing as her!

[MissItalianDiva]

My mother is the most amazing woman I know! She is everything I have ever wanted to be. Kind,caring,loving,compassionate and throughout life and the process of building a family she has maintained her own sense of self.

If I can somehow manage to be even half of who my mother is then I will be one amazing individual

[bigbutchmistie]

Well I have 3 so let me explain...:)

My biological mom Debbi U. and I were close up until I was taken away at the age of 2 to be put in foster care. From then on up until 6 I was in and out of foster homes. Which brings me to "mom" number two.

Her name was Darlene (which is my middle name). She had foster kids and kids of her own. Her and her husband loved kids and had taken a liking to my brother and I. She wanted to adopt my brother and I and was in the process and as fate would have it got breast cancer and wasnt expected to live 6 months. She knew of a couple who turned out to be my adopted parents who were wanting a boy. They were friends of friends. They had taken some child classes from her she had taught. They adopted us, and that will bring me to my adopted mom.

I have never met a more cold and hateful woman in all of my life. Debbie D. certainly had no reason being a mother. Every thing a mother should be nurturing, affecionate, tender, loving, etc she was not with me. She was with my brother but not me. It has taken me years of counseling to get over hating her. Now, I just feel sorry for the human she is. We were never close growing up and now dont talk at all. Its how it should be.

However, I am glad I was able to renew a relationship with my biological mom before she passed. And now my relationship with Darlene is blooming. She and I have recently had a conversation where she sat at supper crying because she never wanted to give my brother and I away. She wanted to adopt us and apologized for putting me with my adopted family. It broke my heart. To see her so torn up after all these years about it. This woman who even after all these years has a closet full of photo albums of just pics of me and my brother growing up. I of course explained to her that things happen for a reason we always dont know what it is. But things happened as they were supposed to.. Now matter how screwed up it is.

She considers me her daughter, knows I am gay, and we hang out from time to time. I guess you could say she is the closest thing to family I have. And I am truly grateful for her.

[clay]

[COLOR="Blue"]My mom...I loved her..always...despite the fact she gave me away at age 8 for adoption, then wanted me back at age 13, as "more dependents for my Navy stepdad meant "more money"..so I spent 5 years, being raised like a military recruit. Subjected to verbal abuse, and physical..the "steel toe in the ass" kind, made to "fall out of the rack" at o dark thirty am for inspection" and many other forms of "discipline" for her "three bastards" ....and she stood silently by..saying well he DID take me and my 3 bastards and give us a place...excuse me, I am NOT a bastard, you were married to my daddy when I was born...that does NOT constitute a "bastard".
Anyway, once she found out I was gay, I was the outcast from the family! That was okay because I had friends and close folks who were ACTUALLY family! AND I was always loved..by someone...somewhere...
When she was diagnosed with Terminal Stage IV Bone/lung cancer, my two brothers said well YOU aqre the girl it is YOUR place to care for her. SO I was coming out of a bad relationship, so I sold my half of the home, sold my motorcycle, sold my motor home..and went "home" to care for her the last 3 months of her life...BY MYSELF! and I would do so again..I loved her..for to me, blood family love never dies... and just before she died, she said is there any way at all you would be "straight, sister? I said no ma'am, NOT an option. I was BORN this way, and I will DIE this way! I was holding her in my arms when she died, and I though wow..I came into this world in hers, and she left this world in mine...how ironic!
There is much more I could add...but it is not relevant..I loved her..unconditionally..she didn't me..plain and simple ..and I have moved on...it serves no one any good to hold a grudge, or to live in the past. I am a much stronger individual..I am capable of loving..in spite of..and I WANT to be this way! My life now is much different, I am even more stronger, and I have "let go...for to keep fighting an old issue gives it power, and if I give it power, it will last forever!!...This is for MYSELF alone...and works for ME alone...
Thanks for the "space" to write this...Clay{COLOR]

[rustedrims]

I have been taking my Mom to Indiana for a few years now..We have family that live there and it is her little vacation away from my mean and nasty Dad..It is a 4 hour drive one way..I guess it was getting the best of me on telling her that i was gay..I decided to tell her in the car on the way home..Figured she couldnt get up and walk away from the conversation..I was so nervous and had my stomach in knots..We were getting close to Ohio and i said to myself that i would tell her when we crossed into Ohio..There we were crossing the line..Got real nervous and probly went another 50 miles before i told her that i had something to tell her..She said ok..So i finally took a big deep breath and i just said Mom i am gay..I looked straight ahead at the road and waited for her reply trying to prepare for her answer..I know what ever she said i had to remember that i was driving and i needed to consentrate on that first..Waiting for her answer and of all the things that could have been said all she was Yeah i know..Felt a little relief after hearing that..I asked her why she didnt say something to me earlier and she said she was waiting for me to say something first..Of course i asked if anyone has said anything about me in the family..She said she hasnt heard anything..This is the way i have always been so we all grew up with it..Iwas glad to hear that..She said some friends have talked to her about my lifestyle..I asked her what she said to them and her reply was she is my kid and i love her and she does..She tells me that she loves me all the time..She does support me and has accepted my girlfriends in the past..My sister and brother does to..They are welcomed in their homes with me..At times i feel a little bit uncomfortable but i deal with it..
I feel bad for the rest of you in here that has had trouble in the past..You should meet my mom..She would give you all a hug and you would feel loved by her even if she doesnt know you..

s..

[Skittlesluver]

My mom is the one person in my life who never abandoned, abuse or took advantage of me. I love her with all my heart and there is nothing I wouldn't do for her. She is there for me through thick and thin. I can never repay her for all she has done..all I can do is be there for her. :rrose:

[Ginger]

This is a very heavy subject for me.

My mom was a foster child because my Grandmother was thrown out of her own family for getting pregnant and my GM had to work as a domestic to survive. The foster family was abusive and she was the scapegoat for the other 5 kids, as she was the oldest.

It damaged my mother and she was unable to be a loving, caring or nurturing person to her only daughter. She then met & married my dad, also from a cold, withholding family of origin.

I believed at an unconscious level, she identified with me and in collusion with my dad, made me the family scapegoat. My younger brothers escaped their wrath.

I used to pray as a child that something would happen to them and I would become an orphan and adopted by a mother like some of my friends had *nurturing*loving*.

Fast forward to the day I told my mom I was in love with my best friend, a wonderful person my mom really liked and that I was gay. She would not speak with me for 15 years. I wad uninvited from my brothers wedding, my brothers would not speak me & the scapegoat was out of the family dynamics.

As we all aged, my mother became sick, had surgeries and as usually happens- I am the only child near them. I help them because there is no one else. I accept that it is what it is. Things that they say still can sting though I have developed a much thicker, protective hide with them.
We were at a family and friends dinner the other day and my dad proceeded to tell the guests all about the "big vacation" when he took the "whole family, wives and grandkids to Hawaii a couple of years ago".

Neither of them noticed I was not included in the big trip (nor did I know it even happened!).

This thread asked about mom but my mother is totally intertwined with my dad. They are one person to me.

When my mom decided to speak with me again, the door was totally shut on my private life. She/they do not ask and do not want to know. I discuss the weather, groceries, etc. I just pretend with them, they pretend with me.
They are old now and I do not expect anything to change at this stage of the game.

Anya, your parents sound destructive and cruel.

It sounds though, as if you love them. Children love their parents strongly, even if they are horribly abused. I think there's a biological advantage to clinging to our parents; that we're hard-wired that way.

But instinct and reason are conflicted when the parents are so hurtful, that the child is more likely to survive, without them. So, I'm guessing that you get something back from your family, something that reassures you on a deep level that isn't conscious.

I hope that is the case, that you at least get that. You sound so together, I doubt you would do something self-destructive, like be with them if it endangered your quality of life.

What's amazing is how objective and clear-headed you are about the whole thing. I'm really struck with how compassionate you are about your parents' families of origin, and how their own childhoods impacted on their development as the parents they would one day become, themselves. It's truly, deeply impressive how you see the whole picture, including your place in it.

[Okiebug61]

When I talk to my mom it's like having a short conversation with a neighbor you only see when you need to borrow a cup of sugar. It wasn't this way until she divorced my dad with whom I have a great relationship with now. It's all been a very strange ride since the divorce and I stepped off at the last stop.

[StrongButch]

My Mom was the first woman I loved. I adore my Mom. I have to say I am blessed to have such a great Mom.

[Metro]

My Mom was a wonderful woman in so many ways -- brilliant yet never arrogant; strong and also quite feminine; courageous and gentle; secure in her own beliefs while respectful of others; steady as a rock but game to try things out of her comfort zone; genuine, loving, kind -- absolutely beautiful both inside and out. I will always miss her physical presence, even so, she is still "with" me in one way or another every day and especially in Springtime. I feel so fortunate that she was my Mother for it's because of her I know how it feels to be loved, accepted and appreciated for exactly who I am.

:)

[firegal]

The relationship I had with my mother was loving,we were close.
She accepted me my whole life as i matured and changed... she accepted me always.

As she accepted my lil sis who is gay [tweener].and also our partners.

We took care of mom these past 4 years upon her diagnosis of dementia,which strengthen a relationship that was already strong.

Her humor,kindness and love I miss so much... she passed july 2011.

My sister and I were very fortunate to have such an accepting loving lady as our mom.

[luv2luvgirls]

I have a great relationship with my mom. She didnt always make the best choices in our lives when we were little.. and emotionally withdrew quite often (all from her own issues). But she has come along way with all the talks we have had over the yrs. I used to wonder why all my friends wanted my life and my mom *shrugs* guess I didnt show just what was up in our "home".. but I have to give her credit,back then she remembered what it was like not having the best clothes or the like so she would make sure we had the latest threads,(course then we had to move coz no money to pay bills) or maybe it was from something else.. but thats another story not about mom.

as far as my being butch.. its taken awhile. She used to be so unbending on her views when I first was coming out at 19. been alot of back and forth with us over this,it was just recently after I moved her in with me over the last 4 yrs that she has accepted how I feel about who I am. She must have been doing research on it cuz a yr or so ago she asked me who was the top and bottom :blink: I about fell out She still has a hard time refering to me as a boi but hey I know she accepts who I am. I also know she loves me and has the heart to love my partner. One thing I can say is she has always loved mine and my siblings partners,or spouses like her own kids. She does love poeple.
And she cracks me up with her new questions all the time now SMH I guess the internet is good :|

[Jess]

oh boy.. it just gets more interesting all the time... chuckles... will be back to this when I have some time to really think about it.

[morningstar55]

wow hadnt seen this thread in a while....
i have to tell ......
like cuddly ...... my mom n I are like oil and water too.
and as well..... anything i have done with my life , jobs , friends, whom i dated.. was not good enough.
she likes my art and is proud of that... but feels i need to have a working hard job to have a full filling work thing not a sit down job relaxing.
and im serious these are her words and ideas of things.
the men are above me...... she will cater to them as like my brothers.
she will be there me sometimes...
nothing i do is right , she dogs me about my wieght , how i sit, walk, you name it. my life style. there is no pleasing her.
i dont know why ..... I put up with her . there are times even lately i will go shopping with her, and she will be ok for a while and sometimes she will start her bashing stuff .. and i have sat there in quiet tears. i dont know why i put myself thru that..
it makes me want to just stop the car and get out.
and maybe i should...... that will give her something to think about im sure. ha..but then im sure she will say im being rediculous.
she is 77 and very active , still drives and such.. complains about some aches and pains is about it.
maybe i am the way i am ... and lack confidence in myself.
and never amounted to much.....took 5 yrs of graphic design and well now i i drive a truck.

[macele]

my momma deserves anything and everything i can give her. when i was a child, i had a great fear of losing her to death. i absolutely didn't see how i could live without her. i'm 45 now and she is 87. i still don't see how i can live without her.

she's doing very well for her age. a strong will. everything she loves, she loves it with a passionate strength. her memory comes and goes, and when i look into her eyes and i don't see that passion, my heart breaks.

i grew up with menopause LOL, ... let me tell you, ... that was a whole lot of "what did i do!" but the memories are for keeps. i grew up with nieces and a nephew. two are a couple years older than me. she gave us homemade biscuits and homemade chocolate syrup. the piano. a swing from the left side of the batter's box. laughter and love. her influence gave us a place to draw strength from.

she grew up poor with an abusive father. but she never let that define her. she chose to be kind and gentle, loving. the stories she has told, ... make me wonder how she could not be cold and damaged. i guess to some degree she is, but i've never felt it.

she doesn't accept homosexuality as "right". but i'm ok with that. that's her belief. she is entitled to that. i don't want anyone to change what they believe. and i don't want anyone to try and change what i feel. we go round and round about a lot of different things lol. my view is to always be open minded. hers is to be landmark missionary baptist. the two views love one another.

she's not perfect. not even close. but i wouldn't know what gambaru means today without her. she let me be a tomboy, ... not once did she say no, you can't do that. she said, you can be anything you set your mind to. she's 87 and when she senses that i don't feel well or something is bothering me, ... the mother in her stands up. she still puts me first. that's what a momma does.

[Dude]

I am surprised with myself, that I never posted in here.
My mom passed in 2005 , three days after my younger sisters birthday.
It was me, who served her those last tiny morsels of food ( or should I say, begged her to eat and drink) at my sisters birthday party.
She hung on with all she had left ,for my sisters day.
I was unsure about taking my dog to the party (food-obsessed, golden retriever,couch potato) or to camp out there with me, during those last few days.
It turned out, that "Emma" ( my dog's name) was her last spoken word and seeing my dog was her last smile.
My dog and hers, barely left her side (but to pee) on her last days.
My dog was a bridge for us, in many ways. It's hard to fight with someone
who loves your dog as much as you. I had to go to the best "horse blinder place" I could muster and focus on staying there.
We were estranged for years, many times. Ten years, was the longest time.
Emma developed cancer herself a year after this and I had to put her down (f)

I had to visualize mom and my dad both as kids who really did not GET what they needed either. Not nurtured and not given affection. My mom was an incest survivor from both her father and older brother.
People did not get help for shit like that, in her time.
Mom and I, made our peace and became very close in that last year.
I always wonder how different she would have been, without my father's control over her and her childhood history.
We all thought, Dad would be the first to go.
She saved my hide often from my fathers rage.
I learned to forgive her for all the times she just couldn't.
I was so close to being the boy he always wanted, and yet wasn't.

She used to insist on doing my laundry even as old as 35 , just to spend time with me.
Grieving her will always be a part of me, now it seems.
She deserves to be remembered like that and a big fancy embellished plaque on her drawer, up on the hill ,with the beautiful view.
I'm still trying to do this for her, seven years later.
This is gonna be THE year.
She spoiled me in many ways and I miss her something fucking awful.
(f) :candle: (f)

spring time is the hardest for me
I try hard not to stuff it
With mothers day coming
and in June, her birthday (again)
it's been fucking impossible to stuff ,this year (THE year)

I went from black sheep my entire life to her favorite
with a phone call every day , quality time spent with her
and a razor (snort)
Morphine and a razor helped her (A LOT) not to worry (so fucking much) about what people thought about the hairy butch she gave birth to.
She couldnt see past my lip hair so I fixed it so she could and I would do it again. I grossed her out totally once when I yanked my first gray 1/4 inch long mustache hair and saved it for her. ( for humor purposes)
I'm sure she is ecstatic, that I'm shaving it daily.
I would love to hear her nag at me (like only a mother can) again about
pretty much anything.
Hairy lips on anyone ,were not her thing and I forgive her for that too.

All the good things that I am , I learned and got from her.

[Wolfsong]

My mom is really sick. It isn't going to get better and this is only the beginning. I am afraid and angry and not ready for this at all. We are not done yet, she and I, but I don't think any amount of time will be enough. I don't think I will ever be enough.

I lost my temper with her the other day and I am ashamed about it. I know she isn't quite herself. Those buttons when pushed just hurt so damn much. I don't know why I'm telling any of you this stuff. I'm not the kind to put my personal shit out there for attention. This isn't happening to me, but to her. I feel so small.

[rustedrims]

My relationship has changed with mom..
I told her a while ago to stop hugging me..It felt uncomfortable..It hurt her feelings..I feel bad for that but i cant do it now..

She didnt stick up for me..
Things got distorted more than i can ever imagine in my life time..


snowballed..


s..

[skeeter_01]

my mom and i have a wierd but wonderful relationship...when i was a teenager she was VERY abusive...and i was her favorite target...

thousands of dollars of therapy later...i have gotten to the place where i have forgiven her...

right now...we have the best realtionship we've ever had...it's NO WHERE near perfect but it's good!...

i just have to say though...as far as unconditional love...that was my gramma...God i miss her!!

[stonewalldog]

I would describe my mom as a land mine. You never know when you stepped wrong and she would go off. But things have been good because I live 1500 miles away. Until recently, I would have said that we had a good relationship.
The key phrase "until recently".

So. I have been out for decades now. My wife and I had a commitment ceremony a long time ago. (I remember the event but not the year!) We got legally married in 2008 during the short window it was legal in California. I don't think about being gay or butch or any of that stuff anymore. Deborah and I hardly have any gay or lesbian friends, male or female, probably because our hobbies aren't that gay conducive. I hunt and fish in California where, in my experience, there is a prevalence of vegen and vegetarian lesbians. Deborah's hobby is competitive Dressage. In our daily lives, lesbian issues don't really come up.

Back to my mother. Deborah is an attorney. She does some legal work for a friend of ours mother who, in lieu of payment, offers us her condo on Catalina Island for a week. We decide to go on the week on my Birthday last February. My mom has been widowed a couple years now so we thought it would be fun for her to come to visit that part of California with us. Deborah has a gay nephew named Ramon in Southern California that we hardly see, so, he and his boyfriend, Shey, were invited as well.

I haven't spent much time with Ramon and Shey. I found them to be delightful, easy going young men. Shey has a big personality. He is very flamboyant and all the flaming queen adjectives. I just adore him.

So, back to my mother. After we leave the island and the first time my mother is alone with me, she starts putting down Shey. Saying that he is "just acting out" and "being a stereo type". She said he made her comfortable. Now, the first time she said these negative things, I just let it go. I probably said something like "if he is happy, who is he harming" so some such thing. Then a couple days later, after we had been back at my home, she brings it up again. This time she says that "if that is what Ramon wants in a partner then he should just get a woman".

I went off. I told her that her attitude is wrong. I don't know but suspect, that Deborah's relatives say the same about me. Why didn't Deborah just get a man! My mom flinched at that or maybe my anger. I don't know which. But I have taken this very personally. I have gone from talking to her everyday since my father's illness and subsequent death to calling maybe once a week.

Am I wrong to still be pissed? Am I wrong to think that she doesn't see Me? I am not the kind of person who holds a grudge but I am having a hard time forgiving my mom over this.

[SimpleAlaskanBoy]

I can't say my mom is the best mom in the world, she's made mistakes, and she doesn't always understand the trans thing. But every thing good in my life I got from her. I know she fought for me from minute one and I know without a doubt that although she may not always understand me she loves me and is proud of me and wants me to be happy.
~SAB

[Babyangeleyez]

My mom is my best friend!! Growing up all my friends called her "mom". My son's friends call her "grandma" now. She has been rock. I wish I was half the woman she is. She is truly amazing!

[SleepyButch]

I am really close with my mom. I've lived out of state from her for almost 10 years now and I know that has not been easy for her. When I first came out, well my sister outted me, my mom called and asked me about a guy that I had dated previously. I pretty much got angry and hung up. A few days later, she told me that she loved me no matter what. From that point on, she has been very supportive of me and of my relationships. I have been pretty lucky that way. I even kid around with her and tell her things like.. the reason I am gay is because you smoked when you were pregnant with me. lol

Anyway, her health is not very good these days so I have elected to move back to be around the family. I want to spend as much time with her as I can while I have her around. I don't want to think about that day when she won't be here. It's inevitable at some point, but until that time, I will cherish every moment that I have even if she does drive me crazy.

She said something funny to me after my recent breakup... because I have dated younger women, she said that I was no longer allowed to date any kids. lol. I had to laugh.. here is to my mom.

[NorCalStud]

They had me late in life so she was 50 when I was 13. She passed away at 92 on a beautiful June day in the best part of afternoon and looked beautiful. My mother was a very beautiful femme submissive woman. My father died when I was nine and my brothers and sisters left home. On hearing of my father's death my immediate concern was my mother. I protected her . She protected me. She accepted my choices in boys clothing and shoes and never tried to talk me out of who I am. She was the different one in her family. I too went through a long period where I could not hug my mom. It felt wierd because I think I became the man of the family because my older brothers were out sewing oats. Anyway I had to do some therapy around it all as I felt her neediness and it scared me...like I couldnt do anything about it tho I felt pressured to do so. Deep stuff butches and their moms. Boys and their moms. And....I love how we were the last five years. All the past diminished and replaced with super affection and joy. Joy at making her old age precious and rich and tangible and complete. Sweet. Thank-you. I learned alot just now.

[Princess]

I am very close to my mother. She had me when she was 19, and my father was away in the Navy. It was hard while he was away but she had a supportive family and thats a big reason why we are all so close knit I think. She has always been very supportive of me! I, like many others, gave her a heck of a time as a teenager/young adult. I went though the piercing phase, tattoos...crazy hair colors...running off without her knowing about it, but even through all of that she loved me.

I still remember when I came out to her, I was 14 and she already knew. In fact, she ASKED me if I was gay. Didn't change a thing...well ONE thing...I wasnt allowed to have girls over for sleepovers anymore lol!

I feel very blessed that even now she and I are as close as always. I moved out of state last year for awhile and it was really hard on us to be so far apart. I went about 7 months without seeing her, and there were times I would hear her voice and break down and cry because I missed her so much. The day I came home, I walked into her house and she was sitting on the sofa. She stayed up all night just to be sure that I made it safely...I will never forget the feeling of that hug. The feeling of love, and happiness, and appreciation, and support, but most of all that hug was the feeling of HOME.

My mother is just that for me, shes not just a parent, shes a friend, a life coach, a confidant, a role model..she's everything, she's HOME.

[ksrainbow]

My mother passed away just 8 months ago and I miss her dearly. For as much as I know in my mind that she is now resting without pain and no longer in fear: my heart misses her smile and her kind and gentle words and encouragement. We may not have always agreed on alot of issues, but she always was with me, beside me and my best supporter of being whom I am! Amazing that 4 of her best friends were lesbians: she understood and accepted in more ways than maybe some mothers would (she was 76 when she passed).

As each day, week, holiday and month go by: her loss in my earthly-world does get sunnier with each new day. For I know that no matter where I am or what I am doing or I am just having a horrible or a terrific day: she looks upon me with her pretty blue eyes and her awesome smile and says: *I love you and I am proud of you*!!!

ks-

[Leigh]

I'm lucky enough to live with my mom; she has supported me through everything and is always there for me ~ I'm lucky to have her :)

[alexri]

My mother has an untreated mental illness. Unfortunately I think life circumstances growing up has made things horrible for her. Nothing is ever good enough. Like when I do a race, she only asks if I won, and if I didn't, she doesn't care. Everyone is either stupid or useless. She calls me, my sister, and my father stupid to our faces. She has no job (was fired for personality issues many years ago), no friends, no visitors. I have no idea how my dad stays with her; he's almost 70 and he's still working 60 hour work weeks. Dad says good Christians don't get divorces. She is just so full of anger at the world and it's sad.

As a child I can remember making her cry when I accidentally shaved part of my hair off playing with a razor in the shower (pretending I was shaving).

She'd always yell at me for wearing big boots, having messy hair, never wearing makeup, etc. growing up. Now she tells me my hair is too damn short and to never cut it that short again.

I've introduced her to past girlfriends and explained who they are; she still doesn't get it. She drops the slang "feminazi" and makes of queers.

She doesn't get it, she never will.

[mariamma]

I have an abusive mother as well. It's never fun. It does make one grow up quickly though. You either learn how to get love, respect, honor and lessons from others or fail as a person.
I stopped going to my mother for important things when I was 5 years old. I didn't meet my father before her died but I spoke with him several times before he passed. There are many like me who have fractured relationships with parents. It hurts but in the long run, it's ok. We just learn how to push thru issues quickly and get to living the good life.
I wonder if we all strive to be as happy as possible. I know I am better when I do but that may be just part of life. People feel better striving for happiness. Point is...what is my point...oh yeah, you may have a different mother than me, yet we are siblings in a different family. Not a comfortable family but one that matters none the less. We are the few who were not mothered by our mothers. And yet we persevere :)
OH! And my mother seems to be a pathological liar. She lies about almost everything. Of the many things she told me about my father, only 6 were true and 3 were that he was a black, American male.

My mother has an untreated mental illness. Unfortunately I think life circumstances growing up has made things horrible for her. Nothing is ever good enough. Like when I do a race, she only asks if I won, and if I didn't, she doesn't care. Everyone is either stupid or useless. She calls me, my sister, and my father stupid to our faces. She has no job (was fired for personality issues many years ago), no friends, no visitors. I have no idea how my dad stays with her; he's almost 70 and he's still working 60 hour work weeks. Dad says good Christians don't get divorces. She is just so full of anger at the world and it's sad.

As a child I can remember making her cry when I accidentally shaved part of my hair off playing with a razor in the shower (pretending I was shaving).

She'd always yell at me for wearing big boots, having messy hair, never wearing makeup, etc. growing up. Now she tells me my hair is too damn short and to never cut it that short again.

I've introduced her to past girlfriends and explained who they are; she still doesn't get it. She drops the slang "feminazi" and makes of queers.

She doesn't get it, she never will.

[Miss Scarlett]

Life with my Mom was very difficult in my younger years...her only daughter i often felt no matter what i did it was never good enough...with each accomplishment (or failure) she raised the bar higher. She was hypercritical of everything about me. There was abuse - physical and verbal... therapy helped me but the triggers remain and i guess they always will. Our relationship was rocky and i wasn't the easiest kid to raise (neither were my brothers). But things eventually changed.

Mom was so frustrated with her life...she left college in the 50s to marry and had many jobs before she went back to school and at age 50 graduated from law school.

She was an amazingly smart and talented woman...her artwork is beautiful. She made sure we were exposed to as much "culture" as possible - at home, in school and on trips.

When i went to work for her, Dad gave us 2 weeks...lol Well it lasted over 10 years and during that time we got to know each other...developed mutual respect and became best friends. Now we still fought like dogs and fired each other at least once daily but we loved working together. She was an incredible attorney and highly respected in the local legal community. At the memorial service held by the local bar many of her peers and judges came to me and said such wonderful things about her. Imagine my surprise when they told me what she'd said about me...having judges tell me that Mom bragged to them about me saying things like if i ever quit she'd have to retire or how proud she was of me. Brought me to tears...

When i finally came out to my family it was ugly but eventually Mom (and Dad) came around. i was 47 when she told me for the very first time how proud she was of me & it was my work in the LGBT community that brought that comment.

She was becoming super interested in our rights when she got sick and i believe she would have joined our fight had she not passed away.

Oh how i miss her... we were each other's sounding board...she was my #1 fan. It took a long time to get to where we were and i doubt any other path would have resulted in the relationship we had. While i would have preferred the absence of abuse i am glad we came full circle.

[rocky 781]

When I came out to my mom at age 18 she told it was phase and that I would get over it. It took us ten years to work past that but in my mindseyes I see her accepting me inwardly and when she past we wer the best of friends sharing everything.I had to tell her it was alright to let go that I would be alright without her my best friend.
:fastdraq::fastdraq:

[Wolfsong]

... But I have taken this very personally. I have gone from talking to her everyday since my father's illness and subsequent death to calling maybe once a week.

Am I wrong to still be pissed? Am I wrong to think that she doesn't see Me? I am not the kind of person who holds a grudge but I am having a hard time forgiving my mom over this.


SWD -

I don't know your mom or the intricacies of your relationships over the years so I can't say for certain. What I can tell you is that my mom is somewhat the same here in action. I found out in the last month that most of my family knows that I am gay. This is a very freeing revelation for me.

It was always kind of the thing that everyone knew but nobody talked about because I never talked about it. I never talked about it because once a long time ago, my dad and I were talking in private and he said, "I've come to some understandings and acceptance of certain things in life and I don't need to talk about them." I've just kind of always known that was him telling me he knew and didn't want to talk about it.

Mom is completely different. Just when I think she's ok with things she says something that comes rolling in like a rouge wave crashing over the deck and I'm like "WTF just happened?" Most recently she pissed me off, over all things, Glee. Mom likes musicals so I thought this would be a cool show for her to catch. (It never occured to me that it might be "too gay" for her.) When I suggested she watch it she said, "I don't like that show." I was surprised at her adamance, particularly towards a show she had never seen before. I asked her why. She said, "That gay lady is on there." (meaning Jane Lynch) Surprised again, I said, "So? How do you know she's gay anyway?" (playing dumb) Mom replied; "She said so. I don't want to watch it, I don't like gay people."

It was like a knife through my heart for a second....one step forward and three back.....but I didn't say anything to her. I sort of had the feeling that she didn't mean me or even Andi. She meant that she didn't like other gay people. Somehow she has managed to cope with me by separating me from others. Listen, if we were younger and mom wasn't sick I'd probably have made something of it......but I know that time is not on our side. I can't let myself waste a single moment with her because she does not see things in the same way that I do. What is important right now is my relationship with her. I do understand her. It isn't enough for us for her to be the only one doing the accepting.....some of that needs to be on my part too.

Your mom sees you. I'm pretty sure of that.

[arcstriker]

My dad died in July of 2008 from a year long battle with brain cancer. When LL and I met with the Lutheran Minister who did my dads memorial service he said to us. " I am going to make your mother my lifes work to help her not to see your relationship as evil". LL and I both laughed and wished him well with that venture.:goodluck:

I'm convince that Dad was the glue that held our family together he knew how to get us all to table in harmony.

My mother has taken my dads death very hard and she has become increasely more difficult to speak with.

In 2010 my newphew found my mother frozen in a snow drift dressed in her nightgown. Her body temperature was 86 degrees. She was rushed to the hospital. After a week in the hospital she was discharged to a nursing home for rehabilitation. She was confused and down right nasty to everyone except for my nephew. After three weeks in the nursing home they were going to discharge her home. I didn't think that was a wise move because she could hardly walk, care for herself independantly plus she was downright nutty!

I set her up in a very nice Assisted Living establishment under respite care. They made sure she ate well, she was clean and well dressed. She was forced to be social. After 5 months she and my nephew decided that she was well enough to return to her home.

Today she still says some mean things about us but not to our faces. She says mean things about my brother and his wife, but not to their faces.

Those words cut to our very core. I think she has lost her filters but then again I wonder. I remember when I was 38 years old and mom said to me that I was "her biggest disappointment and her biggest failure!". I was so hopping mad I refused to call or speak with her. My dad called me to see what the hec was up so I told him what she had said to me. My dad was shocked, and got us back talking again. It took sometime to get over it, but I never forgot it.

Its okay, I am proud of my life, I am proud of my family, and I so very proud of LL and girls. In the end, its my thoughts about my life and my love, and my daughters are all that matter.

I still try very hard to speak with my mom once a week, and its a struggle.

[Wolfsong]

...mom said to me that I was "her biggest disappointment and her biggest failure!".



Hey Arc,

Long time. It's good to see you again. That had to be really hard for you to hear and I am sorry that happened to you. Sometimes I think my mom feels like a failure as a mother (my youngest brother's continued struggle with assholism guarantees him a spot, usually, second on her shit list just a short breath from my sister-in-law who magnificently maintains the top position....in this case I don't mind sharing 3rd with my other brother). I think maybe it's harder for her generation. I know it was harder for her.

There were specific expectations for women in those days (late 50s and early 60s) that were more difficult than I would have ever been able to live up to. I can't really imagine how difficult it was for her to see her only daughter change from a cute little girl in pigtails to........well.....me. People in the neighborhood, old fashioned, watching, judging not just me but her. Her success or failure as a woman and a mother. I remember her always correcting my boyish mannerisms, dressing me the way she thought I wanted me to dress, my hairstyle the way she thought I wanted it. Preparing me to be the woman she thought I'd want to be. There was the disconnect. It wasn't what I wanted, it was what she wanted me to want.

....and oh how I rebelled.

I wasn't that good a kid. I got into trouble in high school, grades slipped from A's wayyyyyy down to where I might have blown my ride to college (I never found out because I enlisted in the Army and went to college later)...just about the same time I realized that I wanted to kiss girls. Oh I didn't do drugs (I was too afraid of my father) or get into trouble with the law or anything like that. At 15 I had my first girlfriend. We went on the lam a couple of times because our parents didn't want us to hang around together. I snuck out at night, went places I wasn't supposed to go, lied to them about where I went and with who......stuff like that. A real Dopeo and Juliet story!

I want to be clear about that because I don't want anyone to think my mother this evil person who tried to make a girl out of her daughter. I earned some of what I get. I know mom loves me. She shows me that in a million different ways. Sometimes, it isn't the way I need her to. The dots don't connect for her when it comes to me. Alot of it has to do with the things that happened to her as a kid.

My own understanding is that I pay a price for living my life my own way. I also understand that my actions and decisions reflect on the people in my family in the same way it would if I won the Nobel Peace Prize or became a serial killer. I love and respect my family. I just wish sometimes it was a little easier to make everything nice and neat for all of us.

[Mrs Arcstriker]

My dad died in July of 2008 from a year long battle with brain cancer. When LL and I met with the Lutheran Minister who did my dads memorial service he said to us. " I am going to make your mother my lifes work to help her not to see your relationship as evil". LL and I both laughed and wished him well with that venture.:goodluck:

I'm convince that Dad was the glue that held our family together he knew how to get us all to table in harmony.

My mother has taken my dads death very hard and she has become increasely more difficult to speak with.

In 2010 my newphew found my mother frozen in a snow drift dressed in her nightgown. Her body temperature was 86 degrees. She was rushed to the hospital. After a week in the hospital she was discharged to a nursing home for rehabilitation. She was confused and down right nasty to everyone except for my nephew. After three weeks in the nursing home they were going to discharge her home. I didn't think that was a wise move because she could hardly walk, care for herself independantly plus she was downright nutty!

I set her up in a very nice Assisted Living establishment under respite care. They made sure she ate well, she was clean and well dressed. She was forced to be social. After 5 months she and my nephew decided that she was well enough to return to her home.

Today she still says some mean things about us but not to our faces. She says mean things about my brother and his wife, but not to their faces.

Those words cut to our very core. I think she has lost her filters but then again I wonder. I remember when I was 38 years old and mom said to me that I was "her biggest disappointment and her biggest failure!". I was so hopping mad I refused to call or speak with her. My dad called me to see what the hec was up so I told him what she had said to me. My dad was shocked, and got us back talking again. It took sometime to get over it, but I never forgot it.

Its okay, I am proud of my life, I am proud of my family, and I so very proud of LL and girls. In the end, its my thoughts about my life and my love, and my daughters are all that matter.

I still try very hard to speak with my mom once a week, and its a struggle.

She made you...Though she calls me "your Situation" and I am far older than that Jersey Shore guy...She is who she is. She came to this country and learned a new language, worked as a nurse (A REGISTERED NURSE!) and shaped who you are as a person in the world. She IS your mother, and to that end she is a HUGE part of you. She drives me NUTTY as hell most days, but she still managed to mark our wedding day with the largest flower arrangement I have ever seen.

And she loved your father, and was lost without him. We were both lost without him for a while...Not you nor she can help that she came at an early age from across a huge pond when the US and Europe were both so fragile in their relationship. I kinda got the same thing from my own immigrant father who was hoping I would be quiet about who I am...and of course now he adores you.

Time changes all, and in some sort of trite sentiment time also heals all wounds...Be patient. I will wait for Godot. I've got nothing but time and time moves quickly when I tick it away with you.

[Tuff Stuff]

Mother's been gone awhile now.I had a lot of video footage,voice recordings,photos taken of her through the years.In a way its like she is still here.Her presence can still be felt.We had a rocky relationship starting from my early childhood.My mom was very 'womanly' and as I grew older she looked to me for protection instead of from her husband.But dad was the best protector there can be.

It's late...I may come back and finish this post.:byebye:

[Tuff Stuff]

I always saw mother as a very strong and stubborn independent woman.She was a survivor and a born leader.I thought she was very beautiful and i learned alot from her watching how she handled her affairs in her daily life and most importantly how she handled other people...she had a big heart but could cut you down with one or two words..rough to watch at times,especially when she was not in a very good mood that day and would totally fuck strangers over with her mouth alone,just for the fun of it,and sometimes it was with a complete stranger who did(in my opinion)not deserve to be cut down the way she would cut them down..like a dog killing an innocent cat,brutal to watch.She loved her family,but she suffered from bouts of depression and alcoholism..my father had the same problems.My mother ruled over her husband...we're talking with an iron fist here *snort*...she ruled over most of her family like this...she knew how to push all your buttons at once.Everyone that is except for me.I am known in my family for my stubborness...death,is the only thing that can change my mind if I really want something badly enough..at 47,I have not changed much.Mother found that out about me at the tender age of 11...at that age I ran away from her and she chased me all over trying to get me back in her life..I had my own rules when we finally reunited,and I just turned 17.She loved me,she showed it.She wanted to live through me and she would sometimes copy me through my actions..it was kind of an honor when she would do that.As I mention before,our relationship was not perfect...she could hurt me emotionally,I would hurt her emotionally and mentally...it was sooo fucking bad at times between us.I watched both my parents grow old and deteriorate..i miss them both,equally.

[ProfPacker]

I have a very conflictual relationship with my mother. I have not spoken to her since April because of the depression I experience after talking to her. I married her (rageacholic and my father, alcoholic) in one person. I feel very guilty and go back and about whether to call her. She can be very deceptive and I always wait for the other shoe to drop. I just know that if I let her back in my life I will be coming and going between setting boundaries with my ex and her emotional abuse (contact continues because of the kids) and my mom (emotional abuse)

[EnchantedNightDweller]

She just wants me to "stop it." Lol Totally clueless. I love her no matter how mean she is - always and forever.

[Blade]

I get along well with my Mom. There have been times when she was my rock and I her rock. We've been threw a lot together and never mind leaning on each other picking each other up or crying together.

She has taught me so many things. Sometimes by what she has said or done and sometimes by what she didn't say or do in certain situations. She sacrificed so many things for "us". Of course I didn't realize that until I was older, and there have been soooo many times I've had to say you were right.
Now as she has gotten older she seems to be doing some of the you were rights. LOL

As she has aged she has changed a lot and sometime we have a communication gap. She will say something and I'm like...HUH? Then there are times I say something and it hurts her feelings because she has taken what I said wrong.

All in all we work it out and are tight. We take trips together, have a lot of laughs together and try to fix all our little "chickies" when they need fixing together.

I know I won't have her forever and I don't know that I won't lose my mind for a bit when she's gone but I'm sure God will prepare me for that day and will give me strength and lead me to comfort when the time come.

[C0LLETTE]

Most of us can write page after page about our mothers, relations with our mothers, mothers known and not known, loving, unloving, "abusive", "kind/benevolent", etc etc etc. And you know what? Ultimately it doesn't matter. If all goes according to plan, your mother will die before you and if you don't make peace with her while she's alive...one way or another...you just never get free and you're stuck with a big dark hole in your own life.

If you want to dwell on what wasn't right, do it fast, accept you'll never really know everything, accept that you're limited by your own prejudices and/or lack of info/detail, and move the fuck on to be the best person you can be.

Blaming imperfect people and blaming the dead is a losing, self defeating waste of your own life.

Meanwhile, if you have lots of happy loving memories, lucky you...cherish them and just let the rest go.

All the people you blame and rail against can't hear you any more. Make peace while you can and if you can't, accept that too...and move on...because another generation is just in the wings, waiting to blame you.

[Chad]

I have a good relationship with my mother and I show the appropriate respect to her.

[Angeltoes]

I have a terrible relationship with my mother. We're opposite personalities. I'm an introvert, she's an extrovert. I do forgive the horrible things she did to me as a kid and I know that she's sorry, but sometimes she starts to slip into that kind of behavior again. I want to love her from afar but she won't let me. I moved across the country from New York to Idaho and she followed me! I know she's sorry and wants to make up, but I just want her to leave me alone at this point.

[CherylNYC]

Sometimes bad people have children and it doesn't turn them into good ones. My parents are in that category. I've had nothing at all to do with my mother since some time in the mid 1980s. When she died a little over a year ago the world became a slightly safer place. I have no regrets.

[gotoseagrl]

I can only handle mine in very small, spaced out doses.

[Karysma]

I love my mom. She can be a little hard to take in large doses - but living in a different country mitigates that. She has a tendency to act helpless in situations and tries to get people to do things for her. I feel conflicted because part of me thinks she does actually lack the skills while the other part of me wants her to at least try to develop the skills. Recently she her health has taken a turn for the worse so I give her a lot more leeway... and I am mostly afraid of losing her. Being far away does not help that fear.

For the first 15yrs of my life we had a very turbulent relationship. I have chosen to forgive and forget.. and I think she has chosen to just forget. I think that because we are so similar has been a heavy factor in my decision not to have children. I just don't think I would be good at it.

[TruTexan]

I can love mine from a distance and in keeping 15 miles apart is still too close some days. I have to step back and disconnect my emotions when dealing with mom, I love her but she's toxic to me emotionally and mentally.
She's the type of person that isn't happy in her life, she's in fact miserable that things aren't better for her as she'd hope they would be. I know life hasn't been hard for mom, but that's not my fault and I'm tired of her taking her anger about life out on me. She does better when I'm not involved so much anymore. I have to take her in small doses when I"m around her or it becomes too much on me. And, my having ptsd and anxiety and depression doesn't help the situation for me to be better.

[Chad]

More on my relationship with my mother. We are Texan's and that comes with a set of rules. Being polite is expected. I open doors for my mother, pay the dinner check, do her yard work and fix her car. I am the last surviving child and my father is gone so it is up to me to care for her and that is my pleasure. Hard work and respect were two big traits in my family and I believe they are good traits.
My mother is an awesome lady that has been a gift to me.


I have a good relationship with my mother and I show the appropriate respect to her.

[Nattih]

I love and respect my mom. We are oil and water but determined to mix. She wants to select my life for me, because her opinion is that she always knows better than anyone else about anything *sigh*.

She is very outspoken and extroverted while I am very introverted and much more agreeable. Both of us are controlling, which is why we often clash. She thinks that someday I will stop "letting these butch women talk me into relationships with them."<- direct quote LOL

We have a complicated relationship but ultimately I am ok with it. I could have had a lot worse.

[*Anya*]

Sometimes bad people have children and it doesn't turn them into good ones. My parents are in that category. I've had nothing at all to do with my mother since some time in the mid 1980s. When she died a little over a year ago the world became a slightly safer place. I have no regrets.

I agree Cheryl.

I have posted about my mother (and father) before.

I begrudge no one their good and loving mother. All children do deserve this.

Unfortunately, not all of us get one.

[Amulette]

My mom is a quintessential female CEO. Her ambition and ability to manifest are quite stunning. She is a formidable woman who goes after what she wants and gets it. She always said a woman can do what ever she wants in this world. That, is an inspiring lesson......

[Kätzchen]

My mother was always terribly kind, attentive and has always loved me and my siblings. She is very strong willed, which has served her well -- especially in light of having a complete break from reality, which she has recovered from in some ways, but will never be like she was before her complete mental break down. I love her and I care about her deeply. But I am careful too, to watch over my own personal well being because she has trouble respecting boundaries. Not just with me, but with others. She can be very difficult to deal with when it comes to honoring boundaries. I respect her wholeheartedly but I don't always get the same level of respect from her. When life between us becomes difficult, I feel pressure to keep myself in check because I know my siblings don't give her the respect she deserves and I want to make sure that I lead by example, which is difficult, no matter how the situation is dressed.

But, I love my mother. I know she's not who she used to be, but I love her for who she is. And even though she is not happy with me right now, I know we'll get through this latest boundary issue because I care about her feelings and I care about the two of us finding a way to work with each other, as mom and daughter. We've always been a team together, throughout life.

[JDeere]

Depends on which mother you are speaking of, I have 2 of them.

I was blessed with 2 mothers because I was adopted. I have mixed emotions on both of them. I love them nonetheless and they want the best for me, but I have major issues with certain topics that come about regarding my lifestyle, who I am, who I want to be, etc.

I live with my adoptive parents right now, we get along, well me and my adoptive mom do more so then me and my adoptive father. I have been taking care of them for awhile now and it has given me greater appreciation for the decisions they made for me as a kid. Me and my adoptive mom can say mean, what others perceive as mean or disrespectful, to each other and laugh. I wouldn't change that for the world.

My birth mother is another story, we rarely talk but when we do, I know she made the right choice for me but I still have issues, anger, resentment and abandonment feelings. She is 73 and really set in her ways but is more accepting of me being who I am, I think because she didn't raise me.

[Chad]

My mother and I are working toward living closer to each other. She is still in good shape at 83 but she could use my help more often. We have looked at many senoir living facilities near me but we decided to go back to the original plan. I will build her a cottage on my land. I have lots of work ahead of me.

[AishasWrath]

On one hand she made a lot of mistakes in the past, on the other she could've been worse and we're on a lot better terms when I'm not stuck in a situation where I'm dependent on her. She and I are very different temperament-wise and both of us have probably placed a lot of unfair expectations on each other over the years.

[JDeere]

BUMP BUMP BUMP!

Okay y'all more responses, I am anxious to see how relationships with our mom's carry over into the relationships with our partners.

[firegal]

My relationship with my mom was very special.She was giving and caring. She always said "if you give something.. do not have strings attached".We cared for her for until she pasted 4 yrs later from dementia related issues.I miss her and ALOT of my character traits/beliefs are from her... and yes my dad too.

She had old school politeness and charitable beliefs.

I miss her.

[randrum]

My mom and I have a great relationship. I consider her a friend. We are very much alike in looks and personality.

We take an annual Mother-Daughter trip to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for the Induction. And usually have a couple other adventures throughout the year.

Our relationship isn't perfect, by any means. And she struggled at first when I came out. We still don't always see eye to eye on the way I dress. But I wouldn't change things for the world.

[Bubala]

Whether you are a butch or femme or a polka dotted green alien, families are a shit show.... Anyone in here feels like they're "normal"? I don't ... fucked up shit! lol

[Rockinonahigh]

In my family I never knew what wasn't disfuntional (?) cause all my cousins has the same issues with there parents as I did, all the siblings from my mothers family had some kind of mental thing going. One minute all was just fine then the next it was hells bells ducking then running for cover, my uncles were the somewhere back in the feudal days 300 years ago, the women were not meek nor mild but had some bad issue with sex that none of us cousins could figure out. It went from "don't touch me ever" or its cause "I have to"
sex was never talked about.My gram had 12 kids and raised 8.
Mom hated men I have no idea how I ever came to be. We had times we got along pretty well but mostly I did all I could to just to stay gone. No matter where I went or who I was with I knew I was going to have to give her a total list of what and where we all went and what went on no matter who did what ever, even what the adults did. It was like there were multiple personalities involved hear, at work or away from home she was a total diferent person it depended who she was with and what was going on. When times were good it was like walking through a mine field wondering what was going to set the next boom off. Thank goodness I didn't get what ever she got.. a beautiful mind was a big waist.

[Angeltoes]

Nope, she was not a good mom. I can only take her in small doses.

[storyspinner70]

My mother is a good enough mother. She chooses to pretend things are always good and has no idea who I actually am. She thinks I'm a terribly selfish person because I chose not to include her in why I do things and let her think what she wants because of it. I needed her when I was in my early 30s - abusive relationship, lost job, 30 year old best friend dying of cancer, money problems, etc. etc. etc. - all she could say to me was she couldn't afford to help me. Thing was, I never asked her for help. Not once. I just needed someone I loved to tell me everything was going to be okay - even if it wasn't. I pretty much realized I had no one to talk to or rely on that day. I've never forgotten or forgiven that, and I doubt I will.

She's more interested in being right than she is in not cutting someone to the bone. She knows I dated men and women equally and my current partner is a woman, but she merely gets this pained look and pretends it doesn't exist and no one will ever find out, so it's all good. What people think matters more to her than most things do. Her mother taught her that.

She was a wonderful mother when we were young. My brother isn't complicated and hasn't had a complicated life. She's a good mother to him still. She loves me. I love her. She's a good enough mother to me now. But that's all she'll ever be - good enough.

[Stone-Butch]

I think I had the best mother anyone could ever wish for. I never saw her take more than a sip of wine at special occasions, she never smoked, she never swore , she never hit us and she never yelled at us. My mother and father were married 64 years until he passed. My mother passed 5 yrs after him and I miss them both very much. We had good parents and we are thankful for that every day. When I lost my mother I lost part of my heart and I am blessed to have had her.

[Barb42]

My mother is & was a great mother.. As a child she was always there for me cheering me on,conforting me or running me place to place day after day(even while working 2-jobs.) As an adult my mother has still been my number 1 supporter no matter what.. The day I came out to my mom was easier then I could ever imagiane..(trying not to jump out of the moving car) I scaredly told her we needed to talk as I started telling her she looked @ me & said " I love you no matter who you choose to love & I already knew.. So take me to eat im hungry"... I LOVE MY MOMMA DEARLY

[Chad]

My mom is so sweet, she is driving me to and from a little out patient procedure next week. What would I do without mom?


:cowboy:

[NitroChrys_Butch]

Whether you are a butch or femme or a polka dotted green alien, families are a shit show.... Anyone in here feels like they're "normal"? I don't ... fucked up shit! lol

My family isn't perfect but they are a wonderful group of people. Each has their little quirks but I have to say that I am very blessed to have a family that is very supportive. My family is "normal" . I have two very loving parents, siblings with whom I get along with very well except for My opinionated self *SMIRKS* but I do have to say I have a wonderful family and I love them dearly. My family is no where close to a "shit show" as you put it.

[NitroChrys_Butch]

My mother is an amazing woman. She has done the majority of the raising of Myself and My sibilings; making 5 females. My father worked long hours and we were usually in bed by the time he got home more evenings that not. My old man never had a son so thank goodness one of My sisters and I got some "butch genes" somewhere because he refers to us as his sons. Which makes Me very proud. One of my siblings died in a car accident when hy was very young. Yes, hy. Our family had two butches. HOW lucky was that!? LOL
My mother is very sweet and loving and although she is a force to be reckoned with she is not a screamer or a hitter. She will pinch on occasion if she catches one of us off-guard. She is loving and caring and would do anything for any one of us. Coming out to her was easy. I think watching her with My father showed me what a woman expected from a man/partner. My father always put her first. He would surprise her constantly with flowers or small gestures to let her know he was thinking of her. She showed us all that a woman expected to be cherished by a man/partner. She has always worked but she was always made sure we came first before anything else.

[JDeere]

Right now my relationship with my birth mother is estranged. My adoptive mother is another story, we have our issues which do carry over into my current relationship. I see a pattern but have no clue how to fix it. But my families are a shit storm for sure.

[TL1]

We talk when needed. We also do things for each other when needed. There's no 'I love you's" or hugs since around 10 years old. But we get along okay.

[Gayandgray]

My Mom and I get along better now than we did when I was little, of course we DO live in different states and don't see each other that much....... She has finally accepted the fact that I'm a lesbian, and that my spouse is around her age. We didn't speak for years because of those two things. I was always closer to her Mother, my Nana.

[JDeere]

My Mom and I get along better now than we did when I was little, of course we DO live in different states and don't see each other that much....... She has finally accepted the fact that I'm a lesbian, and that my spouse is around her age. We didn't speak for years because of those two things. I was always closer to her Mother, my Nana.

Does you mother have major issues with your partner being around your mom's age?

I am curious because both my mom's didn't like the fact I dated someone who was older then me at one time.

[Lyte]

What a curious question. Is the some theory between being butch and one's relationship with mom??

In my case, mom's gone and we never got along. Rhyme unintended. lol No issues re: my being gay ... lots of other family dynamics that created tension and conflict.

[batZeev]

My relationship with my mom is fine I guess. She doesn't know I'm gay but I'm sure she has her suspicions. My biggest issue with her, besides her "hate the sin, love the sinner" homophobic facebook statuses, is the fact that she has started distancing herself from me in public ever since I took on a more butch appearance (I shaved my head and I normally wear sweatpants and a t-shirt, so I look kinda butch now).

For example, she now sits in the next chair over instead of right next to me in public. And when she took me to the airport and hugged me goodbye, she loudly told me to text her "or your brothers incase I'm asleep." I know this seems like a harmless comment, but it's unusual for her. She normally tells me to "keep her posted" and she never says it loud enough for the whole room to hear. It was obvious that she was trying to let people know that we're related.

My mother had me very young and looks very young for her age, and even when I was in high school and took on a more feminine appearance, our neighbors still thought we were lesbians. Now that I'm more butch, I guess her paranoia has gone into overdrive. She has always been someone who cares way too much what other people think of her; she's never had a backbone when it comes to things that actually matter. It's what I've always hated about her.

Since I don't plan on growing my hair out anytime soon, I guess I'll have to visit less, which sucks because we were finally starting to get along but I refuse to be treated like a disease. I guess I'm just disappointed that she didn't open her mind like I thought she would. Instead she switched from "kill the gays" to "hate the sin, love the sinner" (while still posting anti-gay statuses on facebook). She has a niece who is gay, so that's who her homophobic statuses are usually about. She sees nothing wrong with what she says and my attempts at opening her mind over the past 10 years have gotten nowhere. It's starting to look like she's not going to be a huge part of my life.

Sorry my first post is a rant. I just needed to get that off my chest.

[Gayandgray]

Does you mother have major issues with your partner being around your mom's age?

I am curious because both my mom's didn't like the fact I dated someone who was older then me at one time.

Sorry just saw this! Yes the age was a big issue for sure.

[~ocean]

As the years go by I realize how many of us have had problems with being accepted or loved for being gay ( lesbian) with our moms. I just want to say , I always loved my mother cause I remember the mom I once had as a young child ~ and right b4 she passed away on todays date 9-1-2000. The last 2 years of her life she reached out ,and I was there for her holding. I thank God everyday that she seen me as who I am :) I would give anything to cook her dinner and share an evening of conversation , hair dying , a few laughs over gossip , and the glow on her face as she talked with my daughters.

((((( Mom ))))) your very much loved and missed with and with out your faults .(f)

[*Anya*]

I agree Cheryl.

I have posted about my mother (and father) before.

I begrudge no one their good and loving mother. All children do deserve this.

Unfortunately, not all of us get one.

No self-pity here (maybe more than a touch) but mostly deep sadness at what never was and never will be.

My dad's funeral is Friday and my daughters and brothers gently suggested I not go.

I realized that somehow my mother has always identified with me and projected herself into me with a boatload of self-hate. She has no insight and always refused therapy.

I got my brother to tell me where my dad's grave will be, I will pay my respects after they are gone.

You must be thinking, "She must have done something awful". No, I never did.

As my mother told me once, my dad cried when I was born because I wasn't a boy.

It can only go downhill from there and it did.

[JDeere]

I have pulled away from my birth mother, these last few months, I had no idea and was not told by my half siblings, about who she truly is.

It's kinda sad that she is a bitter, ignorant, racist old woman. I can not associate with this in any shape or form, so I had to pull away.

[RockOn]

I loved my mother.

My mom was a whoring drunk.

She was very supportive of me being gay. After I told parents I was gay, my mom got drunk and told all the relatives in the small, racist town where I was born.

I moved back to the city where parents lived and took care of my mom through her extended terminal illness. She passed in 84 at 49 years old. I left no stone unturned in helping her through her illness so I have no regrets there.

That's about all I know about that.

oh well ...

[Breathless]

I love my Mom. She is supportive of my sexuality, and lifestyle decisions.

We will never see eye to eye, but I let her think that we do, just to keep the peace.

I have tried many of times to talk to her about some of the issues of my childhood, and even when I was coming out about things - I found I was constantly having to console her, that it wasn't her fault to an extreme that I felt I wasn't heard..at ..all.

So, the conclusion I have come to, is that she is not able to handle or comprehend or even discuss the items that need air. So we won't.
She comments to me that I am her favourite, I am the oldest. The actual truth is that I save her emotional ass when she gets herself in to hot water and doesn't remember how to swim. Many times she has commented to me that she feels like our relationship is backwards, as I am more of a mom to her than she has ever been to me. I would have to say she is correct on that one.

[Stone-Butch]

my mother was the sweetest, kindest, gentlest woman I could have been blesses with having for a mother. Although she did not agree with my way of living she was always kind and generous to my gf of 22 years that also got to call her mom as her own mother was an alcoholic. I never saw my mother have more than one glass of wine, never smoked and never uttered a swear word to my knowledge and her mother was the same way. I was very blessed to have had them both in my life as well as a wonderful father. I lost my dad in 2000 and my mom in 2015 , 2 weeks after her 90th birthday , which was a huge bash with family and friends. Thanks mom for waiting for that last big hurrah.

[Tuff Stuff]

Mother's Rock!... I love them all.

I miss mine a bunch :laundryday:

[hopelessromantic69]

We get along. She will be living with me after Christmas.

[Gayandgray]

Much better relationship now than we had years ago. We don't discuss the past anymore. I feel this way: You only get one Mom in this world & when she is gone, that's it. So I try my best to have a good relationship with her.

[JDeere]

I have just about completely pulled away from my birth mother. I am grateful that she had me and all but I don't need the bs in my life.

My adoptive mom, we have our days, but boundaries are one thing that she needs to be respectful of.

[imperfect_cupcake]

my mum, my "real" mum, ie the one who raised me: it's always been difficult. But she has the start of dementia now so the entire relationship went through a tough upheaval. She was a very tough, independent woman with two long term relationships and two long term careers. She could be emotionally abusive, gaslighting, controlling and utterly horrible. But she is also very generous, hilarious, protective, gregarious, and caring. She's a human. She's flawed. I can't imagine trying to raise kids and going through all what she did.

I've forgiven her past behaviours, it's a bit late in the game. Her memory is slipping. She's turning into a different person. It was hell for a bit while she tried to hide it and she was terrified and thus was nasty as fuck to everyone around her because she was so scared. But, I might, and probably will, lose my memory at some point in my future. And I won't have a daughter to help me. So, I'm trying my best. We get along pretty good - comparatively - these days. we have our ups and downs, as always. Our fights have always been horrific and gut clenching - they reminded me of the horrific abusive arguments with partners - same weird gaslighting twists in them where you suddenly doubt reality, and my face starts going numb.

But these days I take her around downtown on walks, get coffee, we watch netflix costume dramas, and I listen to the same story 16 times over. I go over and do odd jobs for her twice a month.

My birth mum is crazy in the desert in a trailer. She moved the trailer so, have no idea where she is now.

My step mum is good. It's nice to know she'll be around for a while. She's only 20 years older than me so she's more like an older sister and I like her. I imagine she'll be the only one left after a while. We get along great as we have the same sense of humour and same interest in medical history, travel, socialism, and women's rights.

[JDeere]

BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP!!!!

:hangloose:

[Esme nha Maire]

I have no idea whether my mother is alive or dead, nor do I care. I greatly respect that she raised me single-handed after my father died when I was young, and in every way but emotionally, did a good job of it. And also that she was accepting of my being rather unusual, even though she didn't really understand it.

But I will never forgive her for utterly disregarding my wishes, when I was adult, in the most important things in life, like the death of my Nan, her mother. I was halfway across the country, in hospital, and aware that my Nan had taken ill. I was closer to my Nan than my mother. I wanted to be sure to be able to say goodbye to her, and had checked with the medics that they'd be happy to release me for a couple of days to go see her, and they were. I phoned my Mum explaining and asking her to tell me if it looked like Nan wouldnt pull through. She promised she would. No phone call, no letter, so I remained in hospital for another two weeks to return home to find that Nan had died and been buried, where I still do not know.

Mum said she thought it had been for the best. My express wish to say goodbye to Nan despite being ill myself meant nothing to Mum - all she cared about was what she thought was for the best. That wasn't the only time she did that sort of thing to me, but it was the worst - the more important the situation, the more likely my Mum would ignore my wishes and lie to me.

The final straw between me and her came one day when I went to visit Mum, and her first words to me having opened the front door were "are you still wearing that old coat?" - it was a perfectly good coat, I loved it, and I still have it 20 years later again. But no hello, so good to see you, just straight in with criticism. Always the criticisms from Mum, never any praise or respect for me or my wishes as an adult. I just said goodbye, turned around and took an early coach home.

I reckon I must've been an accident, I can't imagine she actually wanted children.

[JDeere]

I haven't heard from my birth mother in over 6 months, no birthday call, etc. So it just made it easier for me to pull away.