You Knew You Were a Femme When...

[lettertodaddy]

Was it the first time you kissed a girl? Did you come into your femme identity independent of a butch counterpart?

I'll start:

I knew I was a femme when I was babysitting my niece and we were watching some kid's show. Martina Navratilova was on and she was wearing these tiny white tennis shorts. I could NOT stop staring. Every fiber of my being pretty much sat up and said "Oh! So that's what this sex stuff is all about!"

[Library_girl]

Ohhhh Martina.........YUM. Love that Martina. :D

For me, I first knew I was a femme when I realized that all these butch women really appreciated my femme qualities. I was in college and I'd been out of the closet for about 4-5 years. I was just being myself, really. And I was dating this girl who was very butch. At that time, at least in that part of the country, it was very un-cool and politically incorrect to be femme. You were either butch, soft butch, androgynous, or just the granola type. Well, I was none of those; I was just me!! And I will never forget my butch gf at the time was so enamored, and she'd say "Wow, you're the only lesbian in town who wears a skirt and lipstick!" It was like I was from another planet, but a planet she really liked. Then I just met more and more who liked it, and I started "investigating". I'm such a librarian. I was reading everything I could get my hands on, and immersing myself in the B/F community. Soon after, Leslea Newman put together the book "The Femme Mystique". Somehow I hooked up with her and I'm in the book. (twice!) This was around the same time that "Stone Butch Blues" came out. I got to meet Leslie Feinberg too. (whoa)

Okay so that's a long damn story. Sorry, I got all sentimental. Those were awesome days. So I guess I didn't have to figure out my femme-ness, I just didn't have to keep trying to fit into a non-femme community anymore, and that was such freedom. But yes, the butch counterparts really helped that freedom become possible, and I am forever grateful.

God I love butches. :D

[lettertodaddy]

God I love butches. :D

Amen and hallelujah!

What a great story, Library_girl. Thanks for sharing it!

[*Anya*]

I can really relate to Library Girl. When I came out, everyone was butch or granola (like that description LG).

My 1st GF & I were femme. I loved her dearly but knew something was missing.

I went to visit an old friend I had met in NOW (full of lesbians) & she was very butch. I always felt a pull towards her but not sure why.

I went to visit her one night after the femme & I broke up. We were sitting on her couch in Santa Monica with a joint (but I didn't inhale *wink*) & she said: "come here". I asked why: "Because I want to kiss you, that's why".

My stomach dropped out and I felt "that thing" that enormous attraction that I had never felt before and it just all made sense to me in that very minute. I wasn't attracted to my femme sisters in the same, profound, soul-searing way that I was to butches.

Later, I used to love to tease my butch saying things like: " I think I'll cut my hair, start wearing boots & look butch. What do you think?" she would always have a big laugh and very kindly say: "Baby, you could never look butch if you tried".

I just loved that.

[lettertodaddy]

I can so relate to what you both said, Anya and Library_girl. I came out in the late 80s/early 90s when everyone was androgynous. Even when I ran around in Doc Martens, denim cut-offs and Queer Nation t-shirts, I was too femme for the crowd of university-educated feminist dykes I was running around with. Oddly enough, I wasn't femme enough for the working-class butches and studs I grew up with.

The 90s were a lonely and confusing time for me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I embraced my gender in my late 20's I was always identifying as a Leather Dyke since that's what fit me, my femininity showed regardless of how I dressed and as I entered my 30's I embraced my Femme as gender simply because it fit. It's who I am, how I am and it makes sense. I stumbled upon other femmes via Leather & the dash site and it was wonderful and amazing to meet, interact and communicate with other Femmes that I could relate to.

In my journey Femme encompasses everything I am even within my own natural masculinity and has yet to be connected to anyone I fuck. I'm Femme regardless if I'm single, fucking, dating, partnered etc. I am Femme period. :)

[AlphaDrug]

I thought this was a You KNOW your a femme when, not knew... but I was to post my initial responce to it anyways.

This one is bad but at least for me it's so true...
You know your a femme when you look at a teenage boy and hope their a boi/girl.

... I catch myself doing this all the time. T_T It's kind of pathetic.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I thought this was a You KNOW your a femme when, not knew... but I was to post my initial responce to it anyways.

This one is bad but at least for me it's so true...
You know your a femme when you look at a teenage boy and hope their a boi/girl.

... I catch myself doing this all the time. T_T It's kind of pathetic.

I used to wish Scott Baio was a woman!!! Then I found out he's a sexist ass clown!! Bleh:(

[Reader]

I knew when a Butch ED of a Non Profit I was doing volunteer work for listened to me voicing my concerns that I didn't look like anyone else and how I didn't know how to do it that way and worried if I would ever fit in.

She looked at me and said "You're a Femme. It's okay, some of us really like that."

I'll say. :)

HEEEEEL YEEEAH WE DO!!
(ok, i normally lurk, but i just hadda say that!)

[LaneyDoll]

I have always been a girly girl, even when riding dirtbikes & ATVs as a not-old-enough-to-drive-a-car teenager.

Growing up, I was always open to my preferences. I always knew I was a bisexual girl-at the very least. When I finally claimed my true lesbian identity, I felt like I was really "me." I made lots of lesbian friends and most of them were butch woman; I have a weakness for butch/andro women.

But, I never really figured I was a femme until I had a chat one day with a very butch friend of mine. We were chatting about our past weekends and she said "Laney you are such an ultra." I was in total denial b/c for me, that equated high maintenance. So she asked me "when you went out Saturday night, how long did it take you to get ready?" Oh no. I replied "start to finish-like from gettting into the shower to walking out?"

"Yes, how long?"

"Um, three hours but I did everything! Shower, shave, blow my hair dry, hairstyling, make-up, make-up enhancements, clothes, shoes and accessories."

Needless to say, she rested her case and I dropped the argument. She then explained that it did not mean I was high maintenance but that I had the abilities and mindset to take femme to another level.

She is right-I even sit pretty ;)



:sparklyheart:

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

Well, since I didn't come out till later in life, my story of when I knew I was femme is likely not the same as anyone else's, but that's ok with me. *grin*

I have ALWAYS known that the more butch-looking women were attractive to me, I ALWAYS noticed them (and hell yes, even fantasized about them!). But living as a het woman (and eventually as a "well, she must be bi" woman) before coming out in my 40s, I was able to fully embrace and acknowledge that attraction as what made ME hot.

My first gf after coming out was this adorable boi, who ended up as my sub. She was 13 yrs younger than me. VERY butch. When that relationship ended, my next gf was 9 yrs younger, and again VERY butch. In both cases, we just went with the whole "she is a butch and I am a femme" mindset. Both of these women had been out for many many years, and were very comfortable in their identity as butch women. THEY acknowledged my femme-ness, they related to me as a femme, as a counter-point to their butchness. I knew that I wasn't butch, couldn't or wouldn't be able to ID as a butch, so that must have meant I was a femme, right? Isn't that what it meant to be a femme, that I was turned on by and drawn to butch women? I appreciated the uniqueness of those women, and other butch women, even compared to other, perhaps more androgynous-looking lesbians.

But the question then remains, what about ME drew these butch women, appealed to them, and triggered that feeling of the ying to their yang? I mean, I am not one of those that takes hours to get ready (in fact, a couple of my past gf's always took longer that me to get ready!). I am much more comfortable in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt and sneakers than skirt and heels. Will I wear a dress or skirt? Of course. Not likely to wear heels, as they are uncomfortable to ME, and I frankly prefer to be comfortable. Also the fact that I am 5'11", I have enough height. I cannot remember the last time I had a manicure, never have had a pedicure, I do like to wear eye make-up, but not usually lipstick.

OK, before everyone throws stuff at me, I KNOW the above paragraph is chock full of stupid stereotypes. However, in poking around BFP and other sites over the years, it seems like there are a lot of people who almost hold those stereotypes as the norm or litmus test of what makes a femme a femme. IE if a woman is to be considered a femme, she needs to look like _____. (fill in the blank)

So how do I know I am a femme, and how am I a counterpoint specifically to butch women? If I don't fit that stereotypical "look", can I still carry the Femme ID card? (you guys all know there IS a card, right?)

Obviously, imo, the essence of femme-ness FOR ME is not bought at a clothing store, or by having acrylic nails painted JUST so, or by how long it takes me to to get ready to leave the house on a date. It, FOR ME, is how I suddenly seem to feel 'softer' when I am around a butch woman. More feminine-FEELING (if not always looking). It is how my heart races just that little bit more. My body language may change a bit.

Do I think that those butch women that I am so attracted to are somehow 'better' or 'stronger' or more capable than me? Oh hell NO! (in fact, when I used to be in the BDSM lifestyle, my favorite 'toys' were bois/butch women! I was "The Ma'am", and I had ALL the power! Admittedly, as a switch, my favorite people to bottom to were butch Tops. Yummy!)

To me, as a femme, it comes down to an entirely internal identifying mechanism. I FEEL more feminine around butch women. Being feminine doesn't mean less than, incapability in any way, or even that as a femme, I MUST adopt a nurturing role with that butch. Altho, even though I do love to nurture and spoil, past gf's seem to have capitalized on that. Who doesn't want to be spoiled, right?

Well, nuff from me on this now. Great topic and thread.

[Julie]

I don't think Femme is about makeup, heels, accessories or being a Top or bottom.

Femme can be a backwards baseball hat and some boxers if you're feeling it.

:)

Thank you for saying this.

As a Femme with really short hair and most often without makeup on my face and generally in Jeans...

Thank You!

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

Thank you for saying this.

As a Femme with really short hair and most often without makeup on my face and generally in Jeans...

Thank You!

Yea to both Julie and June!!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't think Femme is about makeup, heels, accessories or being a Top or bottom.

Femme can be a backwards baseball hat and some boxers if you're feeling it.

:)



Yes!! Femme is also cock hangin', boot wearing mean mother fucking Daddy!!

WOOF!

[Julie]

Hi Arkansas,

I just read your post... I came out as a Femme in the late 70's -- Sometime in the early 90's I decided I did not want to be Femme anymore and if anybody referred to me as Femme, I would challenge them. I was tired of being boxed in and tired of people saying I was not a true lesbian. Whatever -- I was not as secure back then. That lasted a few years -- A live in relationship with another Femme was enough for me to say - Screw THIS! I am a Femme who loves Butches and I am not denying it anymore.

I dated a butch, she was good for me in one or two ways. I was still teetering on the edge and protective of my identity. She said to me... You can deny you are a Femme all you want (she was much older than I was)... But, just look at the way you stand - perfect ballerina stance (lol) and how you speak your language. No matter what I wore -- Baggy Jeans, workshirt and work boots in the garden... I am Femme. And as Snow said (Cock Wearing) -- Does not make you less of a Femme (remember that older butch - nuff said). Top or Bottom. Femme is Femme. It is the core of our being and at almost 50 -- I am finally not putting up with other people and their bullshit. I am not allowing others to box me in.

Nobody can take anything away from us. NOTHING. Not our feminism, our lesbianism, our femme - NOTHING.

I also remember when I first joined a site (like this - an old one) I felt so out of place. I thought, GOD -- Look at these gorgeous glamorous women... I will never be one of them. I will never look like them. No, I will not ever look like them... I will look like me. Simple Julie. The girl who rarely wears makeup... Who crops her hair. Oh and the girl who just loves her flannel granny (oh so sexy) nightgowns with her ugg boots.

You are beautiful just as you are. None of us are alike and that is what makes us so profoundly amazing.

Julie (and I am so happy to meet you)

[princessbelle]

The only access i had to being a lesbian was very limited here where i grew up. Most all the gay/queer people that i knew and know here in town, at gay bars, were/are butch or Ftm or masculine. I felt so out of place. They looked at me funny, they stoopped talking when i walked up to them, they thought i was odd or at least that is how i perceived it. They were not into "femmes" i know that now. But, it left me lost. I felt abandoned by my own community. I didn't fit in the straight world or what i knew of the gay world.

My first real girlfriend was butch which is what i've always been attracted to. I remember on our 2nd or 3rd date i appologized for being feminine. I felt embarressed by it, as if i were a freak in the gay world. I even offered to "butch up" a little or try to. She looked at me and said "Are you freaking kidding me? Your exactly what i like, don't you dare change a thing".

I was shocked someone could be attracted to my femininity.

But, not until i came online and found bf sites did i realize i had an actual ID which was femme. That there are others "like" me out there and i didn't have to change who i was. That i was ok.

It is so wonderful to belong some where. No matter how we dress, grow our hair, walk, talk, love or laugh, we are a sisterhood. I am so honored to be a part of that.

[lettertodaddy]

Aw, this post gave me the warm fuzzies.

[lettertodaddy]

I don't think Femme is about makeup, heels, accessories or being a Top or bottom. Femme can be a backwards baseball hat and some boxers if you're feeling it.:)

Agreed. Sometimes I feel like I don't really read as femme because I can't wear heels anymore. It's stupid, but it's what goes on in my head.

[*Anya*]

I totally agree femme is not about make-up, heels, etc. Never wear heels or use makeup, well ok, occasionally I will powder my nose if it is shiny and I guess I have been known to curl my eyelashes-hey I like how it looks.

I wear my hair long just because it feels like *me*.

Joking aside, those are superficial things.

To me, femme is an essence, the counterpoint to a butch, the ying and yang, my complement, if you will.

The same way I can spot a butch a mile away in a snowstorm, I can spot a femme, regardless of how she is dressed.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

Yes!! Femme is also cock hangin', boot wearing mean mother fucking Daddy!!

WOOF!

Lady Snow,

Girlfriend, I do love the way you think! This brings me back to the first time I tried using a harness and cock to fuck my girlfriend. It was WEIRD, I tell you! But then again, so was the first time I Topped someone, as oppose to being the bottom. Certainly it took some mental work to get into the headspace I thought was needed by me to do that. LOL

I think that Femme can also be cock hangin, boot wearing mean mother fucking... Ma'am!

[Gemme]

I knew I was femme when I stumbled onto the dash site and sat there, reading pages of definitions and reading oodles of threads on identity and presentation and I had an AHA! moment.

I found myself through others.

The more I read cemented my feeling of finally belonging to something....belonging somewhere...in this world. My unique presentation of femme has been evolving through the years and I'm sure will continue to evolve.

As mentioned, it's not in the hair or clothes or even the mannerisms. For me, it's in the blood.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Lady Snow,

Girlfriend, I do love the way you think! This brings me back to the first time I tried using a harness and cock to fuck my girlfriend. It was WEIRD, I tell you! But then again, so was the first time I Topped someone, as oppose to being the bottom. Certainly it took some mental work to get into the headspace I thought was needed by me to do that. LOL

I think that Femme can also be cock hangin, boot wearing mean mother fucking... Ma'am!


I don't fuck with a cock because I'm topping, nor do I view being penetrated as bottoming how I enjoy sex (which to me is pleasure nothing to do with the binary) has nothing (for me) to do with my gender (Femme). That's the beauty of it all for me Femme is raw, unapologetic POWER.. That's HOT!

[princessbelle]

I knew I was femme when I stumbled onto the dash site and sat there, reading pages of definitions and reading oodles of threads on identity and presentation and I had an AHA! moment.

I found myself through others.

The more I read cemented my feeling of finally belonging to something....belonging somewhere...in this world. My unique presentation of femme has been evolving through the years and I'm sure will continue to evolve.

As mentioned, it's not in the hair or clothes or even the mannerisms. For me, it's in the blood.

Yes yes!!!!

What a beautiful and significant and life altering line that is Gemme...thank you for that. Isn't that just amazing?

I hardly ever wear heels and i like it that way. I wear t-shirts and shorts and tennis shoes or sandals. I don't even wear dresses all that much and just on special occasions. I wear black jeans and boots and my hair in a pony tail a lot of the time. I don't appologize for that. I am ME. I have some very feminine traits as well and i do not appologize for that either.

We are all so unique and different and united.

How wonderful is that.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

Hi Arkansas,

I just read your post... I came out as a Femme in the late 70's -- Sometime in the early 90's I decided I did not want to be Femme anymore and if anybody referred to me as Femme, I would challenge them. I was tired of being boxed in and tired of people saying I was not a true lesbian. Whatever -- I was not as secure back then. That lasted a few years -- A live in relationship with another Femme was enough for me to say - Screw THIS! I am a Femme who loves Butches and I am not denying it anymore.

I love that statement, "I am a Femme who loves Butches and I am not denying it anymore." You know, that is the same kind of declaration that I made to myself when I came out, that I am a lesbian, I love women, and I am not denying it anymore. I had not felt that kind of empowerment and self truth many times in my life. Awesome!


I dated a butch, she was good for me in one or two ways. I was still teetering on the edge and protective of my identity. She said to me... You can deny you are a Femme all you want (she was much older than I was)... But, just look at the way you stand - perfect ballerina stance (lol) and how you speak your language. No matter what I wore -- Baggy Jeans, workshirt and work boots in the garden... I am Femme. And as Snow said (Cock Wearing) -- Does not make you less of a Femme (remember that older butch - nuff said). Top or Bottom. Femme is Femme. It is the core of our being and at almost 50 -- I am finally not putting up with other people and their bullshit. I am not allowing others to box me in.

"It is the core of our being.." YES! This is at the core of ME, and I will not box myself in or allow anyone to box me in either.


I also remember when I first joined a site (like this - an old one) I felt so out of place. I thought, GOD -- Look at these gorgeous glamorous women... I will never be one of them. I will never look like them. No, I will not ever look like them... I will look like me. Simple Julie. The girl who rarely wears makeup... Who crops her hair. Oh and the girl who just loves her flannel granny (oh so sexy) nightgowns with her ugg boots.

I SOOO relate to this, THANK YOU! (and yeah, I crop my hair short too)

You are beautiful just as you are. None of us are alike and that is what makes us so profoundly amazing.

Julie (and I am so happy to meet you)

So very happy to meet you, Julie!!

[Starbuck]

I've never been a girly girl. I've played sports, wear jeans and t-shirts as every day clothes, but I'm just now getting into "girl clothes" as my daughter puts it (she says she's proud of me :)) and it still feels a bit strange; maybe I'm coming into my own as I age. But I've always been attracted to soft butch type women or lipstick lesbians because in a way they have a butchness about them and they look so good too...the best of both worlds, right?

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

I've never been a girly girl. I've played sports, wear jeans and t-shirts as every day clothes, but I'm just now getting into "girl clothes" as my daughter puts it (she says she's proud of me :)) and it still feels a bit strange; maybe I'm coming into my own as I age. But I've always been attracted to soft butch type women or lipstick lesbians because in a way they have a butchness about them and they look so good too...the best of both worlds, right?

Starbuck,

Thanks for your response. This has me wondering now too, since you ID (and others have too) as a "soft femme". What constitutes a "soft" femme?

Ann

[Starbuck]

Starbuck,

Thanks for your response. This has me wondering now too, since you ID (and others have too) as a "soft femme". What constitutes a "soft" femme?

Ann

Not being a "girly girl", being more of a toolbelt femme, if you will. Does that make sense? I own more tools than some men. I'm a tom boy, I guess, but I have long hair, wear eye make up on occasion, starting to wear girlie tops with my jeans...not a "full" femme in my definition of it all. I don't know if that answers your question.

[Martina]

i discovered femme ID through wanting butches. i was pretty androgynous. In some ways, i still am. i am probably andro on the femme side if one is just using those terms descriptively.

i like the fact that i stretch the definition some. If someone butched me up, i probably could pass as a butch.

Still, i am femme even though i am not that feminine. i am femme even though i will date other femmes. i am femme because i decided i was femme at some point and made it mine.

[AlphaDrug]

Starbuck,

Thanks for your response. This has me wondering now too, since you ID (and others have too) as a "soft femme". What constitutes a "soft" femme?

Ann

:moonstars: Thats the stone-femme vs. soft-femme for me at least. A stone-femme is girly girl 24-7, doesn't leave the house without makeup, wont do activities that might break a nail or mess her hair. Where as a soft-femme is more likely to go hiking, jump into the ocean, risk breaking a nail or fix a toilet, that kind of thing. XD

[The_Lady_Snow]

:moonstars: Thats the stone-femme vs. soft-femme for me at least. A stone-femme is girly girl 24-7, doesn't leave the house without makeup, wont do activities that might break a nail or mess her hair. Where as a soft-femme is more likely to go hiking, jump into the ocean, risk breaking a nail or fix a toilet, that kind of thing. XD


I'm a stone femme till I'm not, it's more when I'm fucking, strapping that it's present. I don't want to be touched *I* want to be the one touching and fucking. If I'm getting blown no matter how deep down the throat my cock is he better keep his balance on his own since I forbid touch. My attire or cosmetics have nothing to do with my stone self. That's just another view of stone. :)


Lovin' this thread!

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

I'm a stone femme till I'm not, it's more when I'm fucking, strapping that it's present. I don't want to be touched *I* want to be the one touching and fucking. If I'm getting blown no matter how deep down the throat my cock is he better keep his balance on his own since I forbid touch. My attire or cosmetics have nothing to do with my stone self. That's just another view of stone. :)


Lovin' this thread!

Snow, thanks for your clarification! That is what I thought the definition of Stone was, having more to do with sex than a mindset or look? I knew a woman years ago that ID'd as a Stone Butch, she always told me that was because she did NOT allow anyone to touch her, she only would be the one touching. It had nothing to do with her having a more masculine "look" with her short hair or her body language and stride or the clothing that she wore.
And as others have now written in this thread, being a "soft" femme or a "soft" butch, to Me, may just be the fact that they ID closer to the middle or centrist place on the spectrum, rather than to one extreme or another. Kind of like in politics, not the far right or far left, but a moderate. Does this make sense?

Part of me right now is wondering why we (me?) have such a NEED to pinpoint and label something like this. Put it in a box, so to speak. Do we think we will understand it better, if the idea is safely and tightly locked away inside that box? Silly, huh?

[Gemme]

:moonstars: Thats the stone-femme vs. soft-femme for me at least. A stone-femme is girly girl 24-7, doesn't leave the house without makeup, wont do activities that might break a nail or mess her hair. Where as a soft-femme is more likely to go hiking, jump into the ocean, risk breaking a nail or fix a toilet, that kind of thing. XD

I love the diversity of our community. For me, me being Stone has absolutely NOTHING to do with my physical presentation. I'm Stone 24/7, whether I'm in a dress and heels or barefoot in panties and a tank or while at work in sneaks and a less than desirable uniform.

My Stone identity is like my Femme identity to me. It's an essence, not a presentation. One feels it more than they see it.

[Gemme]

Snow, thanks for your clarification! That is what I thought the definition of Stone was, having more to do with sex than a mindset or look? I knew a woman years ago that ID'd as a Stone Butch, she always told me that was because she did NOT allow anyone to touch her, she only would be the one touching. It had nothing to do with her having a more masculine "look" with her short hair or her body language and stride or the clothing that she wore.
And as others have now written in this thread, being a "soft" femme or a "soft" butch, to Me, may just be the fact that they ID closer to the middle or centrist place on the spectrum, rather than to one extreme or another. Kind of like in politics, not the far right or far left, but a moderate. Does this make sense?

Part of me right now is wondering why we (me?) have such a NEED to pinpoint and label something like this. Put it in a box, so to speak. Do we think we will understand it better, if the idea is safely and tightly locked away inside that box? Silly, huh?

Stone doesn't just have to do with sex. It's most often about boundaries, whether sexual or not. It can also have to do with one's partner and who we will or will not partner with.

See? Diversity! :)

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

i discovered femme ID through wanting butches. i was pretty androgynous. In some ways, i still am. i am probably andro on the femme side if one is just using those terms descriptively.

i like the fact that i stretch the definition some. If someone butched me up, i probably could pass as a butch.

Still, i am femme even though i am not that feminine. i am femme even though i will date other femmes. i am femme because i decided i was femme at some point and made it mine.

This brings to mind the year that I "butched up" for a Halloween costume contest. White t-shirt, leather vest, black jeans, Daddy's cap, fake handlebar mustache, long flogger hanging from my belt. I actually won first place at that contest (noone could believe it was me!) I adopted a stance, adopted a very masculine stride, had a masculine PRESENCE!

What was REALLY hilarious with that get up is the story of me packing, and what happened for THAT! Now I think I am gonna have to hold on to THAT particular story till the Reunion this October. ROFL

[Gemme]

Part of me right now is wondering why we (me?) have such a NEED to pinpoint and label something like this. Put it in a box, so to speak. Do we think we will understand it better, if the idea is safely and tightly locked away inside that box? Silly, huh?

I had to address this individually. For me, it's not putting it in a box. It's creating a deeper understanding of ourselves imo. Some folks don't like labels and to poke and pry into one's identity and presenation and orientation and gender and...and....and....they sometimes feels as if they *are* going into that proverbial box and that the box is restricting them.

I'm an orderly person. OCD about a few things even. I like boxes. I like labels. I like compartmentalization. A lot of folks don't. For me, order helps me to break things down...to examine them...it's probably the one scientific strand of DNA I have exhibiting itself. It's a fashion of sorting, I guess you could say. Learning more about myself helps me learn and understand more about the rest of the world.

[The_Lady_Snow]

What a great way to describe it Gemme, I have many compartments to my Femme... To name a few..

Stone

Daddy

Leather

Master

They are all compartmentalized in their neat little tiny pieces of me who is the main vessel of Femme Fabulousity. Each tiny compartment is a piece of me. It's vital and important... I find Femme to be beautiful regardless of size, shape, race, presentation. We are fierce, feminine, masculine, strong, virile forces of nature... The high low hierarchy drives me bananas, because it leads to a better than and leaves our sister Femme's in a place of questioning.. I'm glad a bunch of us are in here displaying our differences proudly and talking about it, questioning, laughing, discussing and getting to know one another.... :praying:

[Ms. Meander]

Long ago, I came to know “femme” as an adjective which I applied to myself. Now, I know myself to be Femme, a proper noun. It’s empowering to know who you are. Thank you all for reflecting back the many strong, beautiful, powerful faces of Femme. :bunchflowers:

[Anastasia]

I am not sure this is where this belongs, but the thread moved me to where I really felt like I had to get this off my chest... I hope I do not offend anyone.

I don't know that I can even say I know I am a femme. When people see me they think straight. When I see me I don't know what I think.
I don't feel gay, I don't feel straight, I don't feel bi, and if I am really honest, I do not know I could define any of those things, much less define something as complex and confusing (to me) as “femme” or “butch.” Based on superficial appearance type criteria and the fact that a lesbian friend of me told me I am femme, that is what I think I am. In day to day life I do not “identify” as anything.

I am hesitant to share this next part because as independent as I like to think I am I do worry about what people will think of me. Here it goes

I am not out.

I chose to disclose this because, for a person that is almost always surrounded by people, I feel pretty alone having no one to talk to about this. The vast majority of my friends are straight and all but one of my lesbian friends think I am straight.

Plus I am here to make friends, not get laid, if I am not honest about who I am how can I expect that to happen? If someone is turned off or offended by my decision, that is their prerogative, and I just say, “Fine. Don’t date me."


The butch thing for me is based on a pretty small sample size. I am honest about the fact I am not out and that leaves me in a pretty small dating pool, limited typically to people that are looking for NSA sex. That is not really my scene, but my life had some dramatic changes about 2 years ago and about 3 months ago I made some decisions that many would condemn me for. As a result, I had my first encounters with women. I have kissed two women (yes, only two total) one was femme and the other was butch (both of these id’s were their own and formed my cursory understanding of these terms based on appearance and attitude)

Before the kisses, I did not know much about either of these women other than the femme was attracted to me and I was attracted to the butch. Kissing the femme did nothing for me and felt awkward (sadly, I did not stop there and she ended up being batshit crazy. The lesson learned: Making decisions with a lonely vagina leads to 60 psychotic emails and texts a day that either started off with “Dear Goddess” or “Dear Heartless Bitch.” Fun times.)

Anyhoo…

Kissing the butch curled my toes, but I had gotten my emotional and psychological teeth kicked in by "the femme" only 3 months before meeting "the butch", so it stayed at only a kiss (ok, so I straddled her lap a bit… did I mention, the toe curling?)

When I see femme women I think, “She is beautiful. I wish I looked like that, walked like that, or dressed like that, etc…”, when I see butch women I think, “She is beautiful. I sure would like her to [censored] and I would sure like to [censored]”

Well, there it is. Any thoughts are appreciated. I have always known I was attracted to women, I just assumed it was something I had to live without. I fucked up and opened Pandora's box and it is all pretty painful and awful right now.

FWIW: If you choose to flame me I think a private message would be best so as to not ruin this great thread. Be warned though, I am tougher than I sound right now.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

**snippet** I don't know that I can even say I know I am a femme. When people see me they think straight. When I see me I don't know what I think.
I don't feel gay, I don't feel straight, I don't feel bi, and if I am really honest, I do not know I could define any of those things, much less define something as complex and confusing (to me) as “femme” or “butch.” Based on superficial appearance type criteria and the fact that a lesbian friend of me told me I am femme, that is what I think I am. In day to day life I do not “identify” as anything.

I am hesitant to share this next part because as independent as I like to think I am I do worry about what people will think of me. Here it goes

I am not out.


Anastasia~ thanks so much for your courage, your honesty in your post. I can identify with lots. I finally came out later in life, and I personally think (maybe because my path to my own truth took awhile), that we all have our OWN paths to trek. My path is not yours. I also look maddeningly straight. It has been a huge frustration to me, because now that I *AM* out, dammit, I want to be RECOGNIZED! LOL I also had some pre-conceived ideas of what a femme "looked" like, and didn't really think that I fit into that neat little compartment.

Also can relate to the curled toes. A friend of mine once gave me a silly nickname, a knock-off on an Indian name...."She who makes fists with toes"! HA!!

[imperfect_cupcake]

I understood that I was femme when I had been in my first long-term relationship with a woman (been in many flings before that) and I stumbled on what would now be called a blog of a femme who was talking about her ID, whilst I had been looking up various bit of infomation about tg butch, stone butch and butch. I read the blog and suddenly all the struggles I was having with the lesbian community and my own sexuality made sense. And I wasn't the odd one out, there were others like me. So I claimed the ID and found it gave me all kinds of permission to be queer and myself at the same time.

[VintageFemme]

I like this thread. I like reading about all my sisters and the diversity that is femme. And I totally agree with a post I read [I'm sorry I forget which it was] where someone called it an 'essence'. To me that's exactly what it is. While I differ than a lot of everyone posting here in that I am very femme in appearance and mannerisms - and I'm very traditional ofos when it comes to relationships and our roles in them, this thing we call 'femme' is indeed more than clothes, accessories or personal style. It's something you either have or do not have, you are or are not. Again, it is that essence spoken of. I first knew I was femme the moment I fell in love with my first butch. I think that was the moment I also became a woman.

[cuddlyfemme]

I wasn't sure that I was a Femme for awhile. I knew I liked being really femine and was attracted to more masculine women. When I was talking about this to my cousin (who is a Butch), hy pointed out that I was a Femme and explained things to me. I am out but it was easy for me since my cousin was out before I was. Because of my cousin being a Butch, my family automatically thought that all gay people were like hy was and wouldn't believe that I was gay because of that

[The_Lady_Snow]

Anastasia,

Welcome to BFP and this safe space to talk about who and what you are, we are all here for support! You're a strong Femme you'll survive whatever lies ahead!!!

((hugs))



I am not sure this is where this belongs, but the thread moved me to where I really felt like I had to get this off my chest... I hope I do not offend anyone.

I don't know that I can even say I know I am a femme. When people see me they think straight. When I see me I don't know what I think.
I don't feel gay, I don't feel straight, I don't feel bi, and if I am really honest, I do not know I could define any of those things, much less define something as complex and confusing (to me) as “femme” or “butch.” Based on superficial appearance type criteria and the fact that a lesbian friend of me told me I am femme, that is what I think I am. In day to day life I do not “identify” as anything.

I am hesitant to share this next part because as independent as I like to think I am I do worry about what people will think of me. Here it goes

I am not out.

I chose to disclose this because, for a person that is almost always surrounded by people, I feel pretty alone having no one to talk to about this. The vast majority of my friends are straight and all but one of my lesbian friends think I am straight.

Plus I am here to make friends, not get laid, if I am not honest about who I am how can I expect that to happen? If someone is turned off or offended by my decision, that is their prerogative, and I just say, “Fine. Don’t date me."


The butch thing for me is based on a pretty small sample size. I am honest about the fact I am not out and that leaves me in a pretty small dating pool, limited typically to people that are looking for NSA sex. That is not really my scene, but my life had some dramatic changes about 2 years ago and about 3 months ago I made some decisions that many would condemn me for. As a result, I had my first encounters with women. I have kissed two women (yes, only two total) one was femme and the other was butch (both of these id’s were their own and formed my cursory understanding of these terms based on appearance and attitude)

Before the kisses, I did not know much about either of these women other than the femme was attracted to me and I was attracted to the butch. Kissing the femme did nothing for me and felt awkward (sadly, I did not stop there and she ended up being batshit crazy. The lesson learned: Making decisions with a lonely vagina leads to 60 psychotic emails and texts a day that either started off with “Dear Goddess” or “Dear Heartless Bitch.” Fun times.)

Anyhoo…

Kissing the butch curled my toes, but I had gotten my emotional and psychological teeth kicked in by "the femme" only 3 months before meeting "the butch", so it stayed at only a kiss (ok, so I straddled her lap a bit… did I mention, the toe curling?)

When I see femme women I think, “She is beautiful. I wish I looked like that, walked like that, or dressed like that, etc…”, when I see butch women I think, “She is beautiful. I sure would like her to [censored] and I would sure like to [censored]”

Well, there it is. Any thoughts are appreciated. I have always known I was attracted to women, I just assumed it was something I had to live without. I fucked up and opened Pandora's box and it is all pretty painful and awful right now.

FWIW: If you choose to flame me I think a private message would be best so as to not ruin this great thread. Be warned though, I am tougher than I sound right now.

[*Anya*]

Anastasia, we most certainly will not flame you my dear! Many of us went through our own struggles to not only accept what we are but who we are attracted to.

We all understand how difficult the process is and you don't have to "chose" anything! Most of us found that whatever our "it" is; it chose us.

I too, picked a femme first. Many femmes kiss or fuck or date femmes. No judgment here!

Toe-curling, that's another story. My own true toe-curlers have been butch.

Don't know why, don't care why. It just is. Just like the sun rises and the sun sets or just like I breathe.

Welcome:)

[LaneyDoll]

Everyone thinks I am straight too. The fact that I tend to have my kids in tow surely has a lot to do with it. But, I am used to it so I really do not even notice.

UNLESS I am in my fave alt bar. Then, it is really obvious and annoying that the only people who will talk to me are little gay boys who want to pet me. lol
I have tried to start conversations with people who were obviously alone-no luck. I am lucky to carry on a chat that last 5 minutes. In the 4 or so years I have been going, I left with a number once-it belonged to the friend of a gay man who was there with her. And he started a conversation with me only because he liked the gay man I was there with.

I am not sure if the people there see me as straight. A lot of my friends tell me that I am intimidating. Honestly I do not know.

:sparklyheart:

[Gemme]

I am not sure this is where this belongs, but the thread moved me to where I really felt like I had to get this off my chest... I hope I do not offend anyone.

I don't know that I can even say I know I am a femme. When people see me they think straight. When I see me I don't know what I think.
I don't feel gay, I don't feel straight, I don't feel bi, and if I am really honest, I do not know I could define any of those things, much less define something as complex and confusing (to me) as “femme” or “butch.” Based on superficial appearance type criteria and the fact that a lesbian friend of me told me I am femme, that is what I think I am. In day to day life I do not “identify” as anything.

I am hesitant to share this next part because as independent as I like to think I am I do worry about what people will think of me. Here it goes

I am not out.

I chose to disclose this because, for a person that is almost always surrounded by people, I feel pretty alone having no one to talk to about this. The vast majority of my friends are straight and all but one of my lesbian friends think I am straight.

Plus I am here to make friends, not get laid, if I am not honest about who I am how can I expect that to happen? If someone is turned off or offended by my decision, that is their prerogative, and I just say, “Fine. Don’t date me."


The butch thing for me is based on a pretty small sample size. I am honest about the fact I am not out and that leaves me in a pretty small dating pool, limited typically to people that are looking for NSA sex. That is not really my scene, but my life had some dramatic changes about 2 years ago and about 3 months ago I made some decisions that many would condemn me for. As a result, I had my first encounters with women. I have kissed two women (yes, only two total) one was femme and the other was butch (both of these id’s were their own and formed my cursory understanding of these terms based on appearance and attitude)

Before the kisses, I did not know much about either of these women other than the femme was attracted to me and I was attracted to the butch. Kissing the femme did nothing for me and felt awkward (sadly, I did not stop there and she ended up being batshit crazy. The lesson learned: Making decisions with a lonely vagina leads to 60 psychotic emails and texts a day that either started off with “Dear Goddess” or “Dear Heartless Bitch.” Fun times.)

Anyhoo…

Kissing the butch curled my toes, but I had gotten my emotional and psychological teeth kicked in by "the femme" only 3 months before meeting "the butch", so it stayed at only a kiss (ok, so I straddled her lap a bit… did I mention, the toe curling?)

When I see femme women I think, “She is beautiful. I wish I looked like that, walked like that, or dressed like that, etc…”, when I see butch women I think, “She is beautiful. I sure would like her to [censored] and I would sure like to [censored]”

Well, there it is. Any thoughts are appreciated. I have always known I was attracted to women, I just assumed it was something I had to live without. I fucked up and opened Pandora's box and it is all pretty painful and awful right now.

FWIW: If you choose to flame me I think a private message would be best so as to not ruin this great thread. Be warned though, I am tougher than I sound right now.

Okay, here's my flaming.

Ready for it?

Here goes....











Not all butches identify as she. I do realize the one you kissed probably did, hence your connection.










I hope I wasn't too hard on you.

*grin*

We all started somewhere, Anastacia.

Welcome to your journey! I hope it's a happy one.

:cheer:

[Anastasia]

Thank you all. I am actually a little choked up right now (maybe I am not as tough as I thought)

I am so overwhelmed by all of your kindness and understanding. This is unbelievably hard. It was certainly easier to deny when it was an abstract concept and I did not know I preferred women. I find women beautiful and I thought that my attraction to them was just appreciation versus real desire, that all straight women wanted to and fantasized about having sex with women, and had somewhat unnaturally close relationships and attachments to their best female friends, until I felt what I felt kissing her.

Gemme, I had to laugh at your "flame." 1. Thank you and 2. Dear god, I do not even know my own sexuality, I am absolutely lost when it comes to gender identites. I read the threads trying to wrap my head around all of it, but I am still pretty damn ignorant. I do not have tons of lesbian friends (5 good friends and those relationships are based on shared interests. They do not talk to me about their sex life and vice versa.) and I am obviously not in the community so I have not much exposure to the different gender identities.

I have learned a lot about what type of look really gets me going with some of the butch pictures in the member's gallery. Day-um. (That is creepy, right? I probably should not have said that)

Again, thank you all. Despite the fact the post was hard to write, I am very glad I did.

[lettertodaddy]

So. Where are these pictures anyway?

Not that I'm looking. Heavens no. ;)

[Anastasia]

So. Where are these pictures anyway?

Not that I'm looking. Heavens no. ;)


I am telling you, I think the "Random Images" sidebar should be renamed, there is nothing random about it. It picks hot butches to show off. I swear.

All hotties, all the time. Random? Me thinks not.

[Julie]

Welcome to the Planet Anastasia...

I just want to say to you... Everybody has a very different experience coming out. For some people, they walk out and announce it to the world - for others, it is a long process. There is no right or wrong and you may never come out, and that is okay too. This is your journey, your personal journey and if you meet that amazing special butch who curls those toes of yours... Then it will be a joined journey between the two of you and you will figure it out together.

I do not believe there are answers. I believe it will simply be a knowing within yourself. Only you can know who you are inside (not the outside - that is just cosmetics) but the core of your being.

Again, welcome to the site - I hope you find your time here filled with comfort and safety. Here's to a lifelong of toe curling experiences. Ahem... (oh yes I understand).

Julie

[Nat]

I knew I was a femme when I began experimentally pushing myself toward masculine expression.

I knew I was a femme when I imagined a closet full of masculine clothes and found the idea depressing.

I knew I was a femme when I stopped trying to fit my idea of what a femme is - when I accepted and explored the entire spectrum of my gender experience.

I knew I was a femme the first time I heard Dorothy Allison interviewed.

I'm not really concentrating on my identity at the moment as much as i have in the past. I'm reminded often in the course of my life that I'm a femme - but as time goes on I think about it less and less. I shoot for natural, I shoot for authentic, I shoot for self-expression, I shoot for meaning - I stopped shooting for femme once I realized it was a quality I could neither disown nor deny nor could I chase it down. Still I relish the moments I'm recognized as a femme. :)

[Starbuck]

Hi Anastasia!

:welcome: to BFP! You will find this to be a very supporting environment to come to as there are oodles of threads to read and discuss all sorts of issues. :tea:

I was very impressed with your honesty in your post, it brought back memories of when if when I first came out. See I am what you'd call a "late bloomer" as I didn't come out until the age of 38, married and all! Coming out to my husband was hard but thankfully I had two lesbian friends take me by the hand and teach me about the community...one is now my girlfriend :) I admit, I'd never just go out alone, that's just the kind of person I am.

I too had a terrible time with self identity. Growing up my parents could always get my brother and I the same toys; I played sports; I was in the Army; I do NOT wear dresses, but I will wear slacks and a nice shirt; I prefer jeans and a t-shirt although I'm starting to wear what my daughter calls "girlie shirts"; I'll wear eye make up on occasion; and I own lots of tools....so for the most part of my life I was a tom boy but now as an adult, I ID as a soft femme (soft meaning not girlie girl) and it's just who I am. We make our own identity, some call it a label, per se, because they don't want to be labeled, and that's okay too!

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough, I hope this helps you or someone else. :goodluck:

[Venus007]

I was raised by a supreme high femme, my grandma, Nicky. Nicky’s femme was full on pin curling her hair every night, always wearing a skirt, house work in heels, “my you look big and strong”, blink blink blink kinda hetro femme. I had some serious issues with it.

Also I wanted to be a boy since I was about, oh as old as you are when you notice there are boys and girls. Boys didn’t have to get pregnant, they could wear pants, and they could be loud, bold, rough and strong and get dirty. They could climb on stuff, drive stuff, go to college, have a job and money. If I were a man, I would go to work in a suit and carry an attaché case, and at the end of the day a beautiful woman in a crinoline with Marcelled hair would meet me at the door to “my castle” with a glass of chocolate milk and a kiss. Or so I dreamt as a 10 year old poor, Holiness Pentecostal kid growing up in Indiana.

I despised the idea of femme because femme meant female and female meant subjugated. When I was in 6th grade , Mr. Jasinski, caught my first girl crush Rachael arguing with Tony, the bully, about feminism and equal rights for women. As I recall Tony’s enlightened 12 year old argument was because men are stronger, richer and therefore smarter they are the obvious leaders of the world. Mr. Jasinski decided that we would hold a formal debate on the issue. Rachael picked me to be her assistant fact finder (oh swoon). We won.

I read Orbach’s “Fat is a Feminist Issue” and “Our Bodies Ourselves”, Rachael’s mom (may Emma Goldberg forever guard her) loaned them to me, among other books and magazines. In my research it was the first time that I saw women who were not subjugated, women who drove big fast cars, women who didn’t have children unless they wanted them, women who went to college and had careers and money, all on their OWN, women loud, bold, rough, strong and dirty. It created a light in me that would continue to shine deep inside even in and through the darkness that was my adolescence.

When I first came out as a lesbian, I think I was 20 or 21, I dressed in the de rigueur androgynous clothing. It didn’t make me feel sexy although it was comfortable and quite capable for whatever I could dish at it.

A year or two later I was, thank Judy Garland’s ghost, taken in by drag queens. Who helped smooth my edges and showed me femininity as displayed in power through old movies. Ballsy dames, femmes’ fatale, cheeky reporters, witty lawyers and news paper columnists - I was smitten. It was like they gave me a secret weapon that was my birthright as a female creature.

I started wearing clothes that made me feel a little too good to be a good girl and I still wanted the girl meeting me in the crinoline at the door.

[msW8ing]

Might be pretty simple but..my first experience was an old school Dyke swept me off my feet, took me parking by the river went chubby dunkin (cuz I am in no way skinny so I don't call it skinny dippin lol) and from that night on I just knew with every fiber of my being I was femme. I didn't know the term back then. But I knew who I was and what I was born to be.

[Sassy]

I am telling you, I think the "Random Images" sidebar should be renamed, there is nothing random about it. It picks hot butches to show off. I swear.

All hotties, all the time. Random? Me thinks not.

Thanks you for this info and wanders off to find this thread ... Let the ogling begin ;)

[Fancy]

I knew I was most comfortable in my own skin when.... I stopped giving a shit about the labels anyone else tried to identify me by.

:spruceup:

[lettertodaddy]

I understood that I was femme when I had been in my first long-term relationship with a woman (been in many flings before that) and I stumbled on what would now be called a blog of a femme who was talking about her ID, whilst I had been looking up various bit of infomation about tg butch, stone butch and butch. I read the blog and suddenly all the struggles I was having with the lesbian community and my own sexuality made sense. And I wasn't the odd one out, there were others like me. So I claimed the ID and found it gave me all kinds of permission to be queer and myself at the same time.

Do you have a link for the blog? I'd love to read it.

[Silverseastar]

Femme as I see it is energetic. Just like butchness. I have a friend that looks butch but energetically is all femme. I wish I knew exactly what mechanism describes this but it just is. Sometimes I wear "butchy" clothes depending on my mood, sometimes high femme, but I'm always seen and read as a femme.

Femme as I see it does not equal passive, high maintenance, or being a sexual bottom amongst many other stereotypes. But it can still mean those things on an individual level.

I feel my femme energy for myself comes from an internal relationship to my female identity. I'm in love with the womanly energy and parts of me. They feel right to me. I love enhancing those aspects, playing with them, and celebrating them. I feel so deeply female. This does not shift no matter what I do or do not wear. It translates in my body language, movement, and energy that I share with others.

My identity became obvious to me more concretely in reference to my relationship with the butches in my life. We seem to enhance each others gender identity energetically. They seems to see and enjoy my femme as much as I see and enjoy their butch.

[SugarLips]

I think unless you fit a stereotypical picture of what the "societal norm" thinks a lesbian looks like, you will be assumed to be straight.

I don't really think of myself as femme so much as I just am who I am. Others call me femme, and if that's what makes them comfortable, then that's fine. I'm a jeans and t-shirt girl but I love lip gloss and sometimes I grow my hair out to my butt and then I'll cut it all off and regrow it all back...

I bite my nails but love to paint them over and over... I love barettes and earrings and shiny things like a magpie... but I don't think there was a moment that I said, "Oh I'm a femme"... I've just always been me... lol

[1QuirkyKiwi]

As a teen, my first girlfriend had a more masculine energy than I did/have - it was the 80s and the various 'labels' weren't around in small town NZ. She was always more into the activities that boys did, where as I preferred doing the girly things, although, I do have a love for DIY, lol!

[little_ms_sunshyne]

I am enjoying reading this thread! Had to jump in...

I dont know if I ever discovered being a femme. I just am if that makes sense? I remember when I first came out I was not familiar with the terms. My two best friends are butches and until now I had no femme friends to be exposed too. I remember asking them what they thought. One of them said "Thats the beauty of our community. You can be whoever or however you want to be. You define you" I had never heard anything more beautiful than that! As time passed, femme just matched who I am inside. It all just fell into place.

If you asked me to define femme I couldnt...
It is so many things.

It is the sway in my step....
The warmth in voice...
The pride in my brow..
The honey in my words...
The passion in each heartbeat...

I am temptress in a corsette...
Sexy in a plain white button up...
Up to no good in a little black dress...
Jean loving on a friday...
Getting dirty when I need to....
Cursing just about everyday...
I AM A FEMME :)

And to all my fellow Femmes, thank you for being the Femmes that you are! I respect our individuality and love that we can stand together as one!

*Besitos*

[Bella~Vita]

I knew I was femme when I wouldn't give up my heels and make-up:|

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I knew I was femme when I wouldn't give up my heels and make-up:|

That made me giggle - I love it!

I could never give up making my own Shampoos, Shower Gels, Body and Facial moisturisers, Hair Conditioners, Perfumes and all the other lotions and potions a Femme 'needs' to pamper herself...... That's like asking me to give up Dark chocolate - it's NOT an option, lol!

[deb_U_taunt]

I can relate. I have never referred to myself as a femme. BUT from my first crush to my first relationship to my last, all butches. Not even a soft butch in there.
I came out at 14 and in the 70s, so butch wasn't the flavor of the day and no internet to find each other. I did always manage to find some mechanic, plumber or the like though. Still nothing like a thick motorcycle riding, independent, boot wearing, blue collar butch. Just sexy.

but I don't think there was a moment that I said, "Oh I'm a femme"... I've just always been me... lol

[funkyfemme]

Still nothing like a thick motorcycle riding, independent, boot wearing, blue collar butch. Just sexy.


**SWOON** You got that right sister!!

[funkyfemme]

I will share my own story of "you knew when.." when i get my thoughts together. I am loving this thread....the sharing and bonding with other femmes is fantastical!!! :)

[Rivkeh]

When I first started going to clubs in the late 80's, I encountered en mass flanelette shirts and blunstones (Australian work boots) LOL.... I was even told I was 'in the wrong place love' at women's bars. Well, I was not about to give up my girliness, my make-up, skirts or heels, so I ended up 'in the shadows' so to speak, mostly going to gay bars and drag shows.
When did I first realize I was a femme? Then, and also when I discovered the small b/f scene there was...at 'Pokies' drag show nights LOL

[Zimmeh]

I knew that I was a femme, when my neighbor across the street came over and started talking to me. It was crush at first sight...I love wearing my heels when I have the chance and I love my makeup, perfumes and shoe shopping...I also have my days where I will run around in shorts, t-shirts and sneakers. Just depends on my mood..

Zimmeh

[genghisfawn]

This may sound awful, but...

I realised I was femme when I was 18 and with an abusive partner who didn't want a femme. She was a butch who only dated butches, and after I moved in with her, she started taking away my clothes, my makeup, pressuring me to keep my hair short, getting angry when I hung out with my straight friends... very controlling and nasty, for those and other reasons.

Why was I with her? I was 18 and insecure, of course.

But what I realised was that she was taking away everything that made me feel confident about myself - the way I could express myself physically and not just rely on my manner to speak for who I am. I wanted to present as femme. I didn't feel pretty, confident, attractive or even presentable because, let's face it, I made a pretty crappy butch. :)

She was just into appearances, she was heterophobic and wanted her girlfriend to be "visibly queer". As it was, she kicked me out at 3am one day and moved her new butch girlfriend in 12 hours later. I started rebuilding myself and reclaiming who I was a short time later, and happily I've never had to look back. :)

[Passionaria]

I have always been very feminine, but the first time I realized I was femme? Spending time at work with the first Butch I had ever met. ( ok I was sheltered when it came to gay life) I went from perplexed to all twitchy and nervous every time I saw her. Started planning my outfits for work more carefully.

I knew at that time that I was attracted to women but I had never given it much thought. Then I did some online investigating and found out what a strap on was. The birds sang, and the sun rose a little bit brighter. I was like yeah, the best of both worlds, I can do this. *blink* Then every time I saw her I found my self going hmmm, I wonder if she......... That only made me more nervous. LOL. Looking back, yeah I think she does.

I have only been out in the Butch-Femme community. You want a good laugh? Put me in a room full of Lesbians and watch what happens when I "girl" flirts with me. You would think I was a teenager who had never been kissed..... CRAZY.

[Honey]

I was in a bookstore in Provincetown, Mass...I was maybe 17 yrs old...I saw a book on a shelf called The Swashbuckler (by Lee Lynch)..on the cover was a woman wearing a black leather jacket, white tee, faded blue jeans and slicked back hair... leaning against a wall. I was instantly drawn..I opened the book to a random page. My eyes fell upon the words: Frenchy had Mercedes against the wall..she slid her hand into Mercedes panties and felt the wetness against the back of her knuckles..."....THAT WAS IT !! I was ABSOLUTELY FEMME !

[Quintease]

This may sound awful, but...
I realised I was femme when I was 18 and with an abusive partner who didn't want a femme. She was a butch who only dated butches, and after I moved in with her, she started taking away my clothes, my makeup, pressuring me to keep my hair short, getting angry when I hung out with my straight friends... very controlling and nasty, for those and other reasons.

I had an ex (long long ago) who initially dated me as I was femme and 'prettier' than her ex-bf's new girlfriend, then began to resent the male attention I got. Rather than being angry at them, she instead started trying to change the way I looked! (Bear in mind I was 100% out gay through all of this).

I always wondered how she got on in her next relationship, with a girl who was not only femme, tall and thin, but also blessed with model looks.

[ruby_woo]

I came out in the late '90's when I was 16, and living in a suburb of Cincinnati, OH. I didn't really have any real life dyke role models, so must of what I read about queer culture came from the internet. What I read generally regarded butch-femme as an archaic thing that no one really did anymore, and it seemed most dykes dressed in a crunchy, granola kind of way. So that was how I started dressing myself so I would "read gay.". Even so, my friends still made jokes about how "girly" I was- you can't get rid of your natural energy, I guess.

Femme hit me when I was 18. I moved away from that town and went to a liberal arts college that attracted a lot of kids from the SF Bay Area. They knew butch-femme wasn't dead. There was this one girl in particular that caught everyone's eye. She was gorgeous and feminine and everyone wanted her- not me, I wanted to BE her.

Her and I got along quite well, and one night we were hanging out in her dorm room and she told me that there was a whole community of girly dykes out there, and anyone who told you that you were too feminine to be queer was clearly an idiot, so dress however you like.

I reverted back to the dorky kid who watched too many old movies as kid, and started hunting down vintage dresses, cute heels, back-seam stockings. Except I wasn't a kid anymore.

I met my first butch around this time, who loved and embraced my femininity, and who managed to turn me into a giggly mess in a way that no one else had. I knew this was for me.

[Leigh]

Its been awhile since I have been able to really say that I am femme but I'm at a point in my life where right now I know that I am a female, and even more so, femme. Its taken me three years of self discovery, coming out as FTM and taking a year's worth of male hormones, to see that in the end I was always meant to just be me. I miss everything about just being a femme, and to be honest my year of being on hormones made me learn more about myself than I ever had in my 30 years prior.

I don't regret my decision to take the hormones, as I said above it helped me to learn more about who I am and who I'm meant to be. I wanna be able to go out shopping with my female friends for clothes, shoes, even make-up ~ I wanna buy the pretty clothes and even a purse. There is so much that I have missed, and yet I know that there is alot that will just come naturally to me again and thats how I want it. I hope its okay if I come back into the femme circle - I'm sure it is, just wanna make sure .......... its good to be back home where I belong :-)

[1ladyface]

I've only ever been in b/f relationships but I didn't realize that was unique until my second relationship.

The story:

When I was in college my very butch partner Lauren and I found ourselves at a house party in Santa Cruz. Of course I was wearing an embroidered blue skirt with vintage peep toe heels, a blouse and a cardigan and she was wearing black pinstripe pants, dress shirt, shiny loafers and her fedora. We ran into a friend of mine from high school who was wearing a little black dress, her butch partner was wearing a dress shirt, slacks and a tie.

I remember standing there talking with this lovely couple and then looking around the dirty living room filled with genderqueer boi dykes drinking PBR and wrestling with each other in their cutoff denim shorts, ironic trucker hats and handkerchiefs around their necks and realizing, oh.

We're the weird ones.

:blink:

[VintageFemme]

i love this thread & i did reply to it somewhere a page or two back, but i've been reading through some of the posts this evening & it's interesting to see that femme is not always the same thing from one girl to the next. i like this discovering of definition each femme identifies with. it really is a lovely garden isn't it?

[bright_arrow]

I knew I was femme, I was ME, when Bard told me I was beautiful with bed head, rumpled clothing and smeared mascara. Hy tells me every day, and for once, I can believe it :bunchflowers:

[Leigh]

And you should Desd because hy's right :)

We are all beautiful in our own way, and its about time that we celebrate our beauty by being who we are and not being afraid to do so :)

[aishah]

i'm not sure when exactly i started identifying as femme. as long as i can remember, i've always been very femme and queer, and i came out when i was really young, but i didn't have a strong queer community around me. i didn't really know a lot about butch/femme culture or about femme identity until i found my queer disabled poc community/virtual home, a lot of whom are femmes. i've often felt excluded from queer community and disconnected from butch/femme because i have been read as straight for so long (i also used to cover my hair - i'm muslim - and that is a pretty big barrier to being seen as queer unless i'm around other queer muslims). being disabled and dressing differently because of that (no spike heels :() and my faith also left me with the feeling of not being 'femme enough.' anyway, once i found queer disabled poc community who i felt 'saw' me, i knew i was a femme and i started id'ing as femme.

i've always been attracted to butches but i am usually read as straight by them so i've never really been around butches a lot in a flirty/romantic sense, more in an acquaintance/friendship sense...getting to know my partner (we were acquaintances in the queer community/local activism stuff where we lived, and i was usually treated as an ally/straight person, before we started dating) was the first time i really felt 'seen' by a butch. he was like, "duh, i knew you were queer from a mile away." :)

[vagina]

I knew I was a Lesbian when I told my friend at 13 that she's beautiful.

When I was a kid/teenager I always looked for the most Butch looking women when driving through the 'Gayborhood'.

I tried to impress girls and look more like a dyke by dressing the part of butch... which lasted all of 3 months. And then the cargo shorts and oversized tshirts had to go.

I had flings with women who were not Butch... and it was just that flings.

I started dating women that were tomboys. When the L word came out I had a crush on Shane and then even more on the Butches.

Finally in my midtwenties a Butch picked me up and took me home. It was only after several relationships with Butches/AGs/Studs... that I learned what a Femme is.

And I went, 'Oh, I guess I must be a Femme'.


I feel that I am Femme because my main attraction is to Butch and because I am a lesbian.

[anaisninja]

I started noticing that I'm most attracted to masculine women. I don't see myself as a girly girl, but in relation to what I'm attracted to, I guess that makes me a femme.

[lamuymuyfem]

When I was 14 and I saw a beautiful butch woman up close and I said, "I want that with a cherry on top!"

OK, so I didn't know the double meaning of cherry, but you get my drift….

[EmJay]

I was 22 and had recently broken up with my ex of 4 years who was a woman. I never really considered myself gay, I just figured I was In love with my ex because of them as a person, nothing to do with my sexuality. I dated a few guys after the relationship ended but it just didn't feel right. One day I decided to try chatting online and the first person I messaged was a really handsome butch. After chatting I was opened to this whole new world of butches and femmes which I didn't even know existed. "Gay" was not just one cookie cutter type of relationship. I was so completely consumed by the butch femme dynamics and I knew I loved being a femme as much as I loved having a butch. Now when I see a handsome butch I get all flushed and butterflies in my tummy and its like a 13 yr old girls crush. But nothing has ever made me feel as flustered and intense as that first butch. I'm so happy I met them and was opened to this part of my life.

[cinnamongrrl]

I knew in 2nd grade...but took the long way around...

My first little "girlfriend" liked to be called Davey...and I wouldn't THINK of wearing a dress unless it twirled.... (I STILL take a "spin" when I pick out skirts and dresses!)

[silkepus]

I knew in 2nd grade...but took the long way around...

My first little "girlfriend" liked to be called Davey...and I wouldn't THINK of wearing a dress unless it twirled.... (I STILL take a "spin" when I pick out skirts and dresses!)

Me too! Dresses really should pass the twirl factor before I get them (unless they wriggle of course).

And to answer the question, I dont really know. I'm not entirely sure what femme even means, everytime I look it up I get even more confusing descriptions. But I do know I like to be feminine and wear feminine things and I also know I'm attracted to masculine women so I guess that makes me femme? I remember when I was 15 I knew a girl who was very masculine and we used to tease each other and kind of treat each other in a traditional masculine/feminine way. I know she isnt gay or anything, but I think that was the first time I really started to notice women with that certain energy.

[Candelion]

....when every butch I met told me so. :p



Seriously, I remember the moment so vividly. It was the summer I would turn nine. My best friend was eleven. We were spending our last day together before we would spend two weeks apart. I was to visit my grandparents and she would spend her time productively picking blueberries to earn spending money. We had spent all morning hiking the trails on Sumas Mountain. By noon I started watching her face for any sign that she might be thinking about lunch. We kept ascending the mountain. I was tired but I didn't complain. I never did. I never would. We approached a fallen tree that blocked our path. I started to clamber over the barrier when suddenly I heard her voice, "I'm hungry." Finally, I thought. "Aren't you hungry?" she asked. "You never want to stop for lunch." I looked at her shyly (I know it was shyly, because I was shy). "I don't get tired," I lied. She grabbed my knapsack and pulled out our usual cucumber sandwiches. From her knapsack she retrieved two cans of grape pop...I grinned...my mom never bought pop. We gobbled our lunch. I tried not to. I always liked to save half my sandwich for her. We talked about bikes and how she would teach me to catch a baseball. We talked about friends and siblings. We sat for a long time it seemed. I waited for her to reach for my hand. She always did. She always would. Her tall body and short dark curly hair was a contrast to my smaller body and long blonde hair. Her dark tanned skin gave her substance. I was so blonde I was almost not there. She reached for my hand. I stared at our hands. Clasped. My clean white hand wrapped in her scratched dark hand. I don't know how long we sat there. But we had stopped chattering. We sat in silence. I looked up at her face. She was staring at our hands. She saw what I saw. I kissed her cheek. She tugged my pony tail and said, "We won't get to the top just sitting here." I got up. I felt good inside. We were the same. We were different. We fit.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I realised when I was 26/27 when after being bisexual since I was 14, a butch from italy took me to bed. OOOooohhhhh... oh I'm NOT bisexual. I just like a female who is both a boy and a gal. at the same time. with sex. ohhhhhhhhh... right.

That nailed my sexuality. My gender was that being with her made it totally safe to be who I wanted to. Unlike being around cis men and bisexually curious heterflexible women, I was a massive tomboy, dressed boyish, acted boyish - except for lounge evenings when I would shine like a glittering drag queen.

She made it safe to be one all the time. I didn't have to compete with her like I did cis men and the tomboy heteroflexible gals. Suddenly, I could be girly and not put down for it. Not feel vulnerable, not be attacked for it, with her.

I had to unpack a whole heap of shit. It was really hard work. But I got to speak with a gender accent that suited me. I got to own glitter and dragonflies and butterflies and a pink lunch box and 60's mini dresses and wigs and... anything I wanted. And not have to worry about it anymore.

well. With her. Outside of that, the world still sucked. But at least with her my femininity was respected as capable, independant and valuable. It was lovely.

[ForeverMe]

For me my identity as femme came in pieces. I have always known that I was and still am a very feminine woman. Even as a child playing with all of the local boys - hiking, swimming, having a great time - I was ultra feminine. I was 15 when I knew for sure that I was a lesbian. For the next 5 years, all of my experiences were with feminine bi or straight women. I was at the end of my rope with these girls. There did not seem to be any lesbians out there that were what I really was looking for. I was bored. Then I met her, the one that would be my first long term relationship. Only the 2 nd butch woman that I had ever laid eyes on ( yes I was from a very small town).. And the world was finally right. Everything seemed to fall in place with her. Finally a piece of the butch- femme dynamics.

As a side note, all of these years later and in a much more gay friendly area I am still seen as an ultra feminine straight woman. One of the drawbacks of being my type of femme. Damn, why doesn't everyone see this blinking neon sign sbove my head?

[SirenManda]

I knew I was femme from the first memory I had of my childhood. I remember standing beside a row of Barbie dolls in fake plastic high heels and a tiara with a wand. I naturally gravitate to dominate butches/FTM guys and it's always been that way. My happiness comes from getting my nails done, being obsessed with purses and making my hair as big as possible. I've become very Scarlett O'Hara in my 20's and it suits me.

[lettertodaddy]

It's great to come back after a long time away and see this thread still going strong. :)

[tiaras-and-books]

I'm just now beginning to be brave enough to refer to myself as femme, and even that I'm only comfortable with here on bfp. I don't know why it takes feeling brave about it.

Anyway! For me it wasn't a single aha moment. It was gradual, and had a great deal to do with finding BFP and being able to connect with a lot of what femmes here shared. It kind of helped me sort out my own feelings, to read about what other people had sorted out for their own, if that makes any sense.

It's a little about outward stuff - if I could afford it, I'd have mani-pedis all the time, the cutest clothes ev-ar, all that sort of stuff. Femme doesn't specifically mean that, in my opinion, but if I had my druther's I'd be one heck of a cute pinup type.

But mostly, and really, it's about the inside stuff. I don't know how to explain it except that once I began to have a grasp on what "femme" kind of meant, it was just a calm sort of "yes. that means me." kind of feeling, as if I already knew that about myself and I was just learning the word for it is all. Which is sort of the way it was, I guess. I feel like the type of energy/power/whatever I have in me, it's feminine in nature. This is remarkably hard to explain! Hopefully/probably a lot of you know what I mean, anyway.

So for me, it's about that energy, and what happens to that energy in response to someone who's butch to some degree.

[Orema]

I always knew I was a feminine woman, but it wasn't until later in life that I realized (accepted) that I am best matched with a butch. I was remodeling a room and was getting estimates from contractors. Was waiting for someone to come by and give me a bid. I knew I was a femme when I looked through the peep hole, saw a woman who could have easily been mistaken for a man by someone with a less discerning eye, and the first thing I thought was thank goodness I put on some lipstick. She came in, sat down, and we talked for three hours. My life hasn't been the same since then.

I should add that I had been with a butch years before. When we started our relationship she was a soft butch but she grew into a stone butch. We were both young, didn't have any role models, and didn't understand the body issues stone butches sometimes have. That, coupled with my own insecurities was a recipe for a disaster. After that relationship, the last person I wanted to meet was a butch ... My heart aches for those two young women who were trying to find love and understand ourselves when the odds were against us (at the time, among other things, homosexuality was considered a mental illness by the American Psychiatric Association and our friends and families most certainly thought the same).

Anyway, the day I looked through the peephole was the day I stopped fighting it and re-assessed my life. Haven't looked back.

[Femmadian]

Sooo...

I don't really have any stories about always being a girly-girl (I wasn't and still am not...). Growing up, I was always actually a bit of a tomboy and hated wearing dresses or playing with baby dolls. At three, I'm told, I promptly kicked a newly gifted doll down a flight of stairs and, apparently insulted, huffily went back to my LEGOs and dinosaur books. I favoured action figures, climbing trees, and wrestling with the boys, and thought frilly pink tutus and those little play kitchens were stupid. I probably have a lot more in common with the butches growing up than a lot of the femmes. Up until puberty when everyone started acting funny around each other, most of my friends were boys and the girl friends I had were mostly the spunky, mouthy, smoking-behind-the-school, bad influence types (okay, most of my girl friends still are, but I digress...). :p

I was raised in a family with somewhat feminist-y second wavers who eschewed over the top displays of femininity as frivolous or capitulation or desperation to get a man. Being feminine was a negative. The men in my family never really enforced the boundaries either and to dress feminine in a cold environment like Atlantic Canada was seen as impractical.

I then flirted with the goth and punk subcultures as an adolescent and donned the frilliest lace dresses, pointiest boots, most femme-y shirts, and tonnes of makeup but it was okay because it was mostly black and "edgy" and it didn't feel feminine to me. It was "counter-cultural" and to be conventionally feminine meant, to me, giving in and giving up, conforming and also, frankly, as a girl who was always chestier than most of the others my age, it meant making myself a target. If I could distract or deflect some of the attention off of my body by wearing equally distracting clothes, then win-win. I won't lie and say that I didn't also get positive reinforcement from the teachers and some of the adults in my life who, through their own internalized sexism, saw me and the other girls like me as girls they were more willing to take seriously than some of the just-as-smart teenage girls in designer gear with perfect hair. I won't say it didn't happen because it did and I played into it.

To be frank, I did buy into a lot of the sexist messaging which said to be feminine meant a lack of intelligence (and as a girl growing up who was always pegged as "the brain" wherever I went, I certainly didn't want that). I thought it was frivolous. I thought that to show my sensitive or feminine side was to show weakness and as often the only girl in a group of boys (and eventually one of only a handful of girls and women in school and university partaking in male-dominated environments and debates, that was definitely something I didn't feel like I could do). I was already a soft-spoken, quiet, sensitive introvert. To allow myself to be seen as (more) feminine, I felt, would have been intellectual suicide. So, I didn't allow myself to explore that side of who I was and I certainly never felt safe doing so.

There were, however, little blips along the way.

There was this girl when I was in high school, a friend of mine, the only out lesbian in our grade (there were three in the whole school) who had a lovely, punky, baby dyke spike and who played the drums in her own punk band. We got along really well and she was funny, smart, and sweet. She made me feel a little strange inside and the way she looked at me made me uncomfortable and squirm in my pointy boots. I can remember feeling also a little unnerved when in her presence. I can only describe it as feeling naked. I turned into a giggly mess with her. I told the most stupid jokes just to see her laugh. We wrote the worst teenaged poetry and shared it with each other. Hers made me blush. Sometimes I would attend some of her practices after school in the band room and remember feeling transfixed and flustered when she'd take off her button-down shirt or jacket to reveal her athletic shirt and drummer's arms. After class I would gush and go on and on about the latest band or skirt or pair of boots I'd found and would gab her ear off excitedly before realizing that 10, 15, 20 minutes had passed and she'd barely said a word. I would say sheepishly, "I'm rambling again, aren't I?" She would just grin. There was never any judgment and, butterflies aside, it was an easy yin-yang friendship. I would often sneak glances at her in class to see how she had done her hair that day or if she had worn that shirt with that steel necklace and those clunky boots which announced her presence before she appeared around the corner. I thought at the time that I was just admiring her teenage counter-cultural style instead of admiring the butchy figure she struck. I was so far in the closet to even myself at that point that I dismissed the idea of being attracted to her as anything more than a friend. I knew there was something different about the two of us when we were together but I stuffed it down and pushed it away along with my own femininity. For the first time, though, I felt feminine with someone and also felt beautiful.

I thought it was a fluke.

And then I met a few more like my drummer friend along the way and gradually, over a process of years, I noticed two things: one, I was really, really attracted to these unconventional, masculine, butchy women and two, I felt safe to be feminine in their presence. This second point was key for me. Butch women helped me to see femininity in a positive light. They helped create a space in which it was safe to explore that. Butches helped me see that feminine could be smart, could be fun, could be desired by someone without in the same breath being hated and denigrated by that very same someone. They helped me see it was okay and helped break down some of the ugliness and misogyny surrounding it which had attached itself to it via heteronormative society. Frankly, I never would have claimed femme as mine if it weren't for those who claimed butch as their own.

I really relate to what honeybarbara and others have said about it feeling emotionally and physically safe to be feminine around a butch. That's something that I don't think more masculine/butch people quite fully get. It's not always safe or desirable or easy to be feminine. Frankly, it takes just as much courage and fortitude and thick skin to present as an overtly feminine woman as it does to present as a masculine one. There's a lot of shaming and baggage and a huge culturally prescriptive narrative that goes along with that and sometimes against the din of all that messaging it's hard to separate the "I am's" from the "therefore I should's." Even with that backdrop, though, it feels safe to be a feminine woman around a butch when it really doesn't feel safe in any other place. The energy between us is quiet and it's gentle and there's a kind of reverence there that I haven't found anywhere else.

And it feels like finally being able to let down the armour. Sometimes it feels like I've had the armour on for so long that I'm surprised myself by what I find underneath of it.

The ability to be feminine and be seen for it, to be appreciated or, perhaps, even loved for it, and not have to couch it or qualify it, be sheepish or self-deprecating about it, that to me is what it means to claim femme. It's still a process for me and in many ways, I feel like I'm playing catch up with other women... but at least I'm finally here.

I knew I was femme when I met my first butch. It just took me years to find the words and a lifetime to finally say it.

[MasterfulButch]

For the first time, though, I felt feminine with someone and also felt beautiful.

That’s where the magic of this pairing is for me. The way that two people, so hugely different, can combine to give themselves a new level of meaning through their interaction. They are both perfectly valid and whole in their own right, just as a sculptor is still a sculptor when walking down the street. Put them together though and, like giving the sculptor clay, a deeply authentic part of their true selves can be expressed.

For what it’s worth, I see feminine as beautiful, as something to be respected and cherished. I seek it in a partner but also value it in society at large. If my butchness can help provide a context for a femme, to let her know that despite any societal judgement her natural instincts are appealing in their own right, then I take extra pride in my own differences.

[CherylNYC]

Sooo...


... and two, I felt safe to be feminine in their presence. This second point was key for me. Butch women helped me to see femininity in a positive light. They helped create a space in which it was safe to explore that. Butches helped me see that feminine could be smart, could be fun, could be desired by someone without in the same breath being hated and denigrated by that very same someone. They helped me see it was okay and helped break down some of the ugliness and misogyny surrounding it which had attached itself to it via heteronormative society. Frankly, I never would have claimed femme as mine if it weren't for those who claimed butch as their own.

.

This. Exactly.

[imperfect_cupcake]

This. Exactly.

A yup. For the first time I wasn't told I was silly, surperlfous, fluffy, insipid and that "I must like shopping"

(Later I found out this happens too with many butches, but it wasn't always an automatic)

I found that some lovers liked watching me put on make up.
For the first time in my life I was safe enough to be a submissive. To be a Papa's girl. To be totally feminine and not try so hard to be a tomboy to compete with men. I suddenly didn't have to prove anything because I was smart and capable.

[girl_dee]

i SO remember the exact moment!

it was in the second grade... i had a HUGE crush on a tomboy names Renee....

She didn't act like the other girls, she wore jeans under her mandatory skirt and like to play marbles with the boys.. :awww:

i knew i was different at that moment.

[IrishAmazon]

Sooo...

I don't really have any stories about always being a girly-girl (I wasn't and still am not...). Growing up, I was always actually a bit of a tomboy and hated wearing dresses or playing with baby dolls. At three, I'm told, I promptly kicked a newly gifted doll down a flight of stairs and, apparently insulted, huffily went back to my LEGOs and dinosaur books. I favoured action figures, climbing trees, and wrestling with the boys, and thought frilly pink tutus and those little play kitchens were stupid. I probably have a lot more in common with the butches growing up than a lot of the femmes. Up until puberty when everyone started acting funny around each other, most of my friends were boys and the girl friends I had were mostly the spunky, mouthy, smoking-behind-the-school, bad influence types (okay, most of my girl friends still are, but I digress...). :p

I was raised in a family with somewhat feminist-y second wavers who eschewed over the top displays of femininity as frivolous or capitulation or desperation to get a man. Being feminine was a negative. The men in my family never really enforced the boundaries either and to dress feminine in a cold environment like Atlantic Canada was seen as impractical.

I then flirted with the goth and punk subcultures as an adolescent and donned the frilliest lace dresses, pointiest boots, most femme-y shirts, and tonnes of makeup but it was okay because it was mostly black and "edgy" and it didn't feel feminine to me. It was "counter-cultural" and to be conventionally feminine meant, to me, giving in and giving up, conforming and also, frankly, as a girl who was always chestier than most of the others my age, it meant making myself a target. If I could distract or deflect some of the attention off of my body by wearing equally distracting clothes, then win-win. I won't lie and say that I didn't also get positive reinforcement from the teachers and some of the adults in my life who, through their own internalized sexism, saw me and the other girls like me as girls they were more willing to take seriously than some of the just-as-smart teenage girls in designer gear with perfect hair. I won't say it didn't happen because it did and I played into it.

To be frank, I did buy into a lot of the sexist messaging which said to be feminine meant a lack of intelligence (and as a girl growing up who was always pegged as "the brain" wherever I went, I certainly didn't want that). I thought it was frivolous. I thought that to show my sensitive or feminine side was to show weakness and as often the only girl in a group of boys (and eventually one of only a handful of girls and women in school and university partaking in male-dominated environments and debates, that was definitely something I didn't feel like I could do). I was already a soft-spoken, quiet, sensitive introvert. To allow myself to be seen as (more) feminine, I felt, would have been intellectual suicide. So, I didn't allow myself to explore that side of who I was and I certainly never felt safe doing so.

There were, however, little blips along the way.

There was this girl when I was in high school, a friend of mine, the only out lesbian in our grade (there were three in the whole school) who had a lovely, punky, baby dyke spike and who played the drums in her own punk band. We got along really well and she was funny, smart, and sweet. She made me feel a little strange inside and the way she looked at me made me uncomfortable and squirm in my pointy boots. I can remember feeling also a little unnerved when in her presence. I can only describe it as feeling naked. I turned into a giggly mess with her. I told the most stupid jokes just to see her laugh. We wrote the worst teenaged poetry and shared it with each other. Hers made me blush. Sometimes I would attend some of her practices after school in the band room and remember feeling transfixed and flustered when she'd take off her button-down shirt or jacket to reveal her athletic shirt and drummer's arms. After class I would gush and go on and on about the latest band or skirt or pair of boots I'd found and would gab her ear off excitedly before realizing that 10, 15, 20 minutes had passed and she'd barely said a word. I would say sheepishly, "I'm rambling again, aren't I?" She would just grin. There was never any judgment and, butterflies aside, it was an easy yin-yang friendship. I would often sneak glances at her in class to see how she had done her hair that day or if she had worn that shirt with that steel necklace and those clunky boots which announced her presence before she appeared around the corner. I thought at the time that I was just admiring her teenage counter-cultural style instead of admiring the butchy figure she struck. I was so far in the closet to even myself at that point that I dismissed the idea of being attracted to her as anything more than a friend. I knew there was something different about the two of us when we were together but I stuffed it down and pushed it away along with my own femininity. For the first time, though, I felt feminine with someone and also felt beautiful.

I thought it was a fluke.

And then I met a few more like my drummer friend along the way and gradually, over a process of years, I noticed two things: one, I was really, really attracted to these unconventional, masculine, butchy women and two, I felt safe to be feminine in their presence. This second point was key for me. Butch women helped me to see femininity in a positive light. They helped create a space in which it was safe to explore that. Butches helped me see that feminine could be smart, could be fun, could be desired by someone without in the same breath being hated and denigrated by that very same someone. They helped me see it was okay and helped break down some of the ugliness and misogyny surrounding it which had attached itself to it via heteronormative society. Frankly, I never would have claimed femme as mine if it weren't for those who claimed butch as their own.

I really relate to what honeybarbara and others have said about it feeling emotionally and physically safe to be feminine around a butch. That's something that I don't think more masculine/butch people quite fully get. It's not always safe or desirable or easy to be feminine. Frankly, it takes just as much courage and fortitude and thick skin to present as an overtly feminine woman as it does to present as a masculine one. There's a lot of shaming and baggage and a huge culturally prescriptive narrative that goes along with that and sometimes against the din of all that messaging it's hard to separate the "I am's" from the "therefore I should's." Even with that backdrop, though, it feels safe to be a feminine woman around a butch when it really doesn't feel safe in any other place. The energy between us is quiet and it's gentle and there's a kind of reverence there that I haven't found anywhere else.

And it feels like finally being able to let down the armour. Sometimes it feels like I've had the armour on for so long that I'm surprised myself by what I find underneath of it.

The ability to be feminine and be seen for it, to be appreciated or, perhaps, even loved for it, and not have to couch it or qualify it, be sheepish or self-deprecating about it, that to me is what it means to claim femme. It's still a process for me and in many ways, I feel like I'm playing catch up with other women... but at least I'm finally here.

I knew I was femme when I met my first butch. It just took me years to find the words and a lifetime to finally say it.




So very well said. Thank you.

I learned to hide my pretty and girly in my late teens. I got unwanted attention from my cousins husband in Jr high and High school, but then I moved away from my family and I went to school for building maintenance, and stopped in to pick up my tools, for a on the job learning session, I never got any attention before from guys till that summer day, I wore a sun dress not overly revealing but it was the 90's so it cinched in the back and wasn't long. My shape was noticed. It wasn't fun. Apparently the surprise that i was endowed and had legs was too much for them.
Latter that year I lost a great job that I loved because there was apparently too much talk when i wasn't around. I do appreciate that the guy letting me go was honest about it, It didn't make it suck any less, but it wasn't something i could have done much about, I wore the same uniform as the guys it wasn't tight or fitting and I didn't wear much makeup since I lived in Oregon too much rain and just wasn't money i cared to spend.
I never wore that dress again, I stuck to the tomish clothes or very long billowy skirts and dresses, nothing that showed anything.

It wasn't till I met a butch friend of a friend in my mid twenties after I was divorced, that I felt like I wanted to be pretty and feminine and it wouldn't cost me respect or dignity. not to be cheesy, but it honestly felt like sunshine to something I didn't understand but was learning.

These days I still love long skirts they have become light and airy especially here with all the desert wind, I don't use them to hide any longer .

[girl_dee]

THiS... i wanted to be Marcy because i crushed Peppermint Patty so bad... and she got to call her *Sir*


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ac/14/fb/ac14fbaa1af4de2afc9af58a7360e840.jpg

[~ocean]

my whole life I knew I was a girly girl

[kittygrrl]

I love grrly things but on the other hand I enjoy working with screw guns, chainsaws, and jack hammers...:|:|:|

[girl_dee]

I love grrly things but on the other hand I enjoy working with screw guns, chainsaws, and jack hammers...:|:|:|




YES...........

[A. Spectre]

If I may, being a Butch, share a story my femme told me a while back. When she was around 6 or so, at their usual evening meal, her dad was coaxing G into eating all of her spinach. She really was balking at eating such awfulness, so he says, "G, eat that spinach! It will put hair on your chest.!"

G began crying, and whimpered, "Daddy, I don't want hair on my chest."

She told me then, is when she realized being feminine was her path in life.
That story makes me smile each time I think about it.

*Hope I didn't break any rules posting this here.

[Contradictor]

I don't know that I'm a femme. I know that most of the time I appear as one. I'd like someone to tell me if I am! But I know that's not realistic.
I like pink. I wear make up often. I wear skirts and dresses.
Does that make me femme? Sorry if not supposed to ask on here.

[girl_dee]

I don't know that I'm a femme. I know that most of the time I appear as one. I'd like someone to tell me if I am! But I know that's not realistic.
I like pink. I wear make up often. I wear skirts and dresses.
Does that make me femme? Sorry if not supposed to ask on here.

no, none of that makes you a femme, because if it did, i'd lose my card.

[Contradictor]

Thank you, that's helpful :)

[*Anya*]

I think that in the same way that MOC women/butches know that they are not girly girls or feel very feminine or can't relate to the perceived feelings; femmes just "feel" it.

I have never questioned that I was female. It never felt foreign to me. I just "knew" that I was a girl and I have always liked that.

I never really integrated femme with female until I fell in love with my long-term ex.

She was very butch and heard sir pretty much everywhere she went. She did not identify as male nor felt uncomfortable in her MOC lesbian butch skin.

I met her in NOW in the mid-70's and was always, always, attracted to her but really did not understand why. We remained friends during my first relationship with a woman. I loved that first woman dearly.

She was very femme. I admired and loved her feminity but the sexual attraction was really not there. She was my bestie but we were both questioning our sexuality and fell into a sexual relationship. I also want to add that after we broke up; all of her girl-friends were butch...

When we broke up, the butch asked me out and we were together for 19-years. She came out in the 60's, when there were much more rigid roles. She was trained by a mentor in the ways of butch and recognized and appreciated the femme difference in me.

We were ying and yang and it was a real sexual spark for us.

She helped nurture the internal femme in me. I don't wear heels or dresses any more but those are externals and really have nothing to do, IMHO, with the internal identification as femme.

I went out to lunch with a butch dyke that I work with last week. She is questioning her gender identity but for now, still identifies as she/her so, I shall, too.

Somehow, we started talking about butch and femme (that is her chosen and soul dynamic also) and we were talking about butch and femme as we were driving. She always insists on driving. Surprise.

Anyway, i said something about being femme and was trying to explain it and she laughed (a quite hearty laugh I might add) and said:

"Yes, I know that you are femme. There is no question about that".

:blush:

[akiza]

oh god since forever i may but i have been in denial yeah ^^ i've tried to act masculine you know walking,talking... rated! i was feeling stupid i love clothes,make up,doing the minimum of sport ^^,checking masculine women yeap the mind can be a pervert lol i don't see myself with a boy,i'm not weak ok i am fighting not for me and talking can't always be effective but a protective,fierce,fun,... butch is perfect for me ^^

[Wiccanfemme]

I have always been a girly girl. I remember trying on my mother's high heels and jewelry from the time I was about five years old. I don't scream if I see a bug and I like being outside enjoying nature but I like to dress femininely so I guess I've always been feminine. The defining moment for me was when I saw the movie If These Walls Could Talk 2 when I was a teen. As soon as I saw that butch walk on screen it all clicked into place for me. I realized that I wasn't just feminine I was a femme who yearned for that female embodiment of masculinity to compliment my femininity. It was a feeling of coming home, and all of it suddenly making sense for me.

[gotoseagrl]

I've always known I was very girlie and feminine. But I didn't know I was truly a femme until, millions of years ago, I had a crush that was so hardcore I couldn't see straight on a butch I worked with at the time.

[gotoseagrl]

I had the same experience with this movie, which I watched I don't know how many times.

The defining moment for me was when I saw the movie If These Walls Could Talk 2 when I was a teen.

[nina03]

About seven years ago, I got sick. I was on bed rest for two years. After I got off bed rest, I was put on Prednisone for the next two years. I had to give away all my high heels, cause I couldn't walk, let alone walk in them. I had to cut my hair, because I couldn't take care of it. I didn't wear make up, because I mostly didn't leave the house. I was too sick. The Prednisone made me gain a hundred pounds, and literally changed the shape of my face from a side effect called "Moon face."
During that time, I had to figure out what femme meant to me, separate from all those externals, like long hair, pretty clothes, make up, shoes, or even flirting with handsome butches. I had to figure out what made me feel femme and why. What I came up with is that my femme identity is still there, no matter what. It's a core piece of who I am and how I am in the world. It's about my love of beauty, and my need to embody that in myself, even when that beauty is not reflected externally.
So, now I'm off the Prednisone, my face is going back to normal, I've lost some of the weight, and I can wear heels again. My hair is long again, and it's so pretty that Knight takes photos of it sometimes. Butches notice me again, and people flirt. That's all lovely, and I enjoy it, but now I know that without any of that, I'm still femme, and still a power house. It comes from a deeper place now.

[girl_dee]

i love this thread, and being femme..........

[nycfem]

For me, if I'm to be dead honest, it was when I slept with a butch for the first time! I realized the label "femme" was gonna steer me in the right direction ;).

[Medusa]

.....when you are digging through your purse for keys and find 9 lipsticks, a nail polish, 2 rings, and a little sparkly bauble with "FEMME" on it that you used as a key fob before it broke.

[dark_crystal]

I knew i was a femme when i learned in 1987 that butches exist.

I knew what lesbians were and i knew (and was fascinated by) girls who were tomboys but i was not interested in being a lesbian until i put it together that a lot of the tomboys were lesbians and there was a kind of lesbian you could be where you ONLY dated tomboys

SIGN. ME. UP! (i said)

[Femmewench]

I've never been a girly go. I prefer wash and go hair. Makeup is limited to my eyes and lips. I like dresses/skirts and hate hose so that limits when I can wear these.
When I came out (the second time) to myself, I hurried myself down to the gay bookstore. The first book I picked up was "The Persistent Desire: A Butch Femme Reader." God bless Joan Nestle. I cried, I drooled, I lusted and I knew I was femme and more particularly a butch loving femme.

Just as an aside, I lived in Big Bear, CA for the better part of a year. I moved up there in late fall; I say up there because it's about 8,000 above sea level and cold in the fall and winter. I thought I'd died and gone to my femme heaven. Every woman I saw had short hair, boots, jeans and flannel shirts. It took me about 2 second to realize most of them were practical straight women. :::sigh:::

[kittygrrl]

when I first came out I cut my hair short and wore jeans t-shirt and boots...loved it..but it never occurred to me (to doubt) I was a grrl 100%