How about butch and butch?

[W.A.J.Q.]

Saw in the femme zone a thread about femme and femme relationships, bot how is it with butches?
Is there any butches who only can feel attraction to other butches?

/R

[DapperButch]

Saw in the femme zone a thread about femme and femme relationships, bot how is it with butches?
Is there any butches who only can feel attraction to other butches?

/R

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438

Edit: Ok, so just took a better look at the thread and it is talking in general about butch/butch desire, and not specific to your question. However, in case you missed it...there it is!

[tapu]

Okay, maybe with DB. You do fuck their brains. ;)

[Dominique]

Okay, maybe with DB. You do fuck their brains. ;)

UUgh. I am not police-ing the threads. Having spent the better part of a week reading an intense thread in the lesbian zone. The gentleman were extremely respective of the space. I know you were teasing DB, maybe send him a rep. We should honor the Butch Zone as we ask the Butches
to honor our space.....fair is fair.

[Sparx1_1]

I've known several butch/butch couples but I have rarely seen any acceptance of them from the butch/femme community.

[DamonK]

Ask MBE.

I don't date girls.

I love the male energy.

But now that I have a girl, I like that too. It was a 10 year lesson.

Butch/butch is hot. FTM/FTM is hot and I'm involved in one of those as well.

The energy is different, but equally intense.

[Gemme]

Like Sparx mentioned, the couples are out there, but the acceptance is not. To be brutally honest, seeing butches with butches gets me going more than femmes with femmes. But that's just how my cuppa flows.

:coffee:

[clay]

I am accepting of anyone loving anyone..so long as it is of age, consenting adults..."live and let live" is how I try to be....and I don't judge anyone for whom they love, or how they identify....while I may not always "understand " all the different dynamics, I DO respect them! I agree with Gemme & some others...it is HOT! People loving people!!! Yayyyyy

[musicman]

For me personally, I am a butch who loves and adores femmes.As the saying goes, It takes all kinds to make this world of ours go around.

If you really think about it, butch on butch or femme on femme is the truest form of the definition of same sex.

[DapperButch]

If you really think about it, butch on butch or femme on femme is the truest form of the definition of same sex.


:hiding:

.

[DapperButch]

If you really think about it, butch on butch or femme on femme is the truest form of the definition of same sex.

I would suggest it is the same gender, not the same sex. There are female/woman identified butches and most femmes identify as female/women (in my experience). < tipping hat>

[untangle]

I have always told myself that you fall in love with whom you fall in love with regardless of their gender. So far, the people I have fallen in love with have been female. While I have dated both sides of the butch/femme spectrum, I do have a preference for more of the butch side. I don’t really like to identify myself as a soft butch, but it’s what people tell me. From what I have seen before, it seems butch/butch relationships are almost considered taboo in the LGBT community.
So, with that, I think this is another awesome thread!

[WingsOnFire]

Ask MBE.

I don't date girls.

I love the male energy.

But now that I have a girl, I like that too. It was a 10 year lesson.

Butch/butch is hot. FTM/FTM is hot and I'm involved in one of those as well.

The energy is different, but equally intense.

I have to say that this energy is something I have never witnessed before Damon and is the most erotic and sensual thing I have ever seen. It is the very essence of Damon's core. Do I feel threatened by that? absolutely not. It is definitely something I would never ask Damon to live without. I know that I can not fulfill every single part of him. I wouldnt want to take that part away from him.

Besides, I agree with Gemme, butch/butch, FTM/FTM is hot. And.... well.... I have always said I benefit from the sexual energy that Damon gets from that dynamic.

the girl who is sleepy and headed to bed.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Saw in the femme zone a thread about femme and femme relationships, bot how is it with butches?
Is there any butches who only can feel attraction to other butches?

/R

First pardon my intrusion into the Butch Zone I mean no disrespect and found no reason to duplicate the thread in the Trans Zone.
After all masculinity is masculinity just what end if the spectrum right?

Second forgive me for quoting a member that is timed out however the person did start this thread I am bumping tonight. After all I am asking the same question just with a more updated twist to it maybe.

For those of you that don't know me, my name is Alix or TBW works too. I id as a Trans mainly because it covers such a wide spectrum however technically I think as of this week I am actually a FtM since I have begun my transition. So yes I am male id and very masculine. Sometimes to much that it gets me in trouble in here or should I say not taking the time to word my posts correctly does.
My sexuality is Queer and for me that means I am pretty flexible on who I have relationships with and sex with.

So my question are there others that like myself are drawn to masculine energy and are masculine themself. Now for me it is not the only energy I am drawn to but damn do I miss it and boy is it hot with the right person. After all not all femmes catch my eye so not all butches, trams, ftms, and anything in between catches my eye.

So what say you Planet inhabitants...are you masculine and at least a part of you is drawn to other masculine energy. No matter the rest of the dynamic that is involved.


P.s. Forgive any typos I am after all on my phone ;)

[gaea]

This comes to mind a favorite movie quote...

So what say you fussy britches :) *giggles*

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Blame it on Dapper after al hy was the one that told me where this thread could be found

[psykftm]

Hellz yeah masculine energy is hot :)

I am attracted to both butches and ftm. In my case, I am absolutely oblivious to femmes. Like the time I was looking out my friends window all exited about the golden retriever outside, my friend looks and goes "what about the dogs owner...the one with the bikini?!" lol

I'm sooo shy around other butches though, can't even talk right and have a miserable time trying to think if I get them as a customer lol (I work at 7-11). Always makes my day though :D

[Bad_boi]

I feel annoyed that masculine/masculine pairings are not accepted as much. I like butches, femmes and sometimes other trans guys. It shouldn't be a big deal at all really. I have a valid place in this community too.

[RockOn]

I have local friends who would be defined as a butch on butch couple. Also, saw a lot of that in the army. Personally, it is not for me. I am a stone butch whose only sexual attraction is with the girly femmes - the ones who only enjoy being "done to" and lack all desires of "doing to."

I say to each individual - just be true to whatever is good and right for you in terms of sexual dynamics. I am respectful of others who are different from me in that aspect.

Edit: Need to add, the type femmes I am speaking of above, outside the bedroom, we share equally in the relationship. For instance, if we were married, she would probably be better in handling our finances and budget. (guess I am thinking about a particular woman now - very smart lady ... but that seems to hold true across the line, for me, anyway)

Sorry to have moved off topic and made it way too much about my preferences and ideas ... I thank the "someone" in advance - who will come in and set things back on track - carry on. :)

[Ciaran]

I have local friends who would be defined as a butch on butch couple. Also, saw a lot of that in the army. Personally, it is not for me. I am a stone butch whose only sexual attraction is with the girly femmes - the ones who only enjoy being "done to" and lack all desires of "doing to."

Edit: Need to add, the type femmes I am speaking of above, outside the bedroom, we share equally in the relationship.



Genuinely not trying to be confrontational but I'm not sure that this post rests comfortably with me i.e. maybe not intentional but my reading of it is that being "done to" is an element of being a "girly femme" and "doing to" is something of a polar opposite.


Also, whether someone is "done to" or "doing to" in the bedroom, why does that necessarily indicate a lack of equality in the bedroom ..... surely, if it's what both parties want, it is as equal in the bedroom as sharing equally in the relationship outside of the bedroom.

[qtwithguitar]

I'm enjoying reading this thread, thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Most of my experience has been dating femmes but lately I have been finding myself thinking about/noticing butches. The community I live in is very femme/butch only. I like that people are talking about this, makes me feel a little less strange for my thoughts.:hangloose:

[RockOn]

Ciaran, I am not taking your post as confrontational in the least bit. Maybe I was too specific.

I think we do not understand each other. No problems with that.

Hope no one gets offended that historically, I don't get involved in going back and forth trying to provide better explanations. Some understand, some won't. Ciaran, hope you are good with that ... best I can do.

Happy Saturday to You! :)

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Brock and others

I get your analogy however may I point out that the "doing to" or not has nothing to do with being butch in my experience. I have been with plenty of butch/trans men and boi/ys that do not do to me it does not make them less butch or less masculine. Neither does the fact that I "do to them" just makes them not stone. Just as there are many different types of lovely femmes out there are just as many sexy butches and trans* that fall some where in the spectrum. It is about their masculinity and our connection for me. Just as it is with femmes...Hence why I am queer...gotta love the grays in life sometimes...
Just my experience.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I'm enjoying reading this thread, thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Most of my experience has been dating femmes but lately I have been finding myself thinking about/noticing butches. The community I live in is very femme/butch only. I like that people are talking about this, makes me feel a little less strange for my thoughts.:hangloose:

Welcome to the site qtwithguitar and never feel strange for your thoughts..there is enough of that out there without us doing it to our self....besides how do you know what you like if you don't listen to yourself no matter what everyone else says. During my youth and the area I lived in butch/femme and transmen relationships rarely existed but that dosen't mean I turn away all femmes or other masculine energy. If I did I would not have had the experience I have had nor would I know myself as well as I do. However I will admit of all the dynamic masculine on masculine doesn't receive enough postive attention in my opinion.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I feel annoyed that masculine/masculine pairings are not accepted as much. I like butches, femmes and sometimes other trans guys. It shouldn't be a big deal at all really. I have a valid place in this community too.

It also supports my argument against labels....trust me you would be hard pressed to fit me into a box but I have a valid place in the community as well...do I not?

[o'queery]

Great Thread.

For me, I have always been been physically/mentally attracted to all of the masculine characteristics of Butch/boi/boy's & Transmen. I never sought out feminine women (for relationships) because my heart was never there. I always say that I adore femmes, I just don't sleep with them.

I came out as lesbian when I was 13 yrs old, and was lucky enough to be in an environment where I could evolve into the boy I now ID as today. I would go so far as to say that I have always felt like more of a fag than anything. I stay positive and grounded enough in who I am that it makes it easier for me to JUST BE.

It's hard to be minority within a minority. It's bad enough when you're not accepted as a whole, but to be an outcast among your own peers leaves a lot of room for my own self acceptance and understanding.

That being said.

The dynamic for me is intense. My ache for all things boy is worn on my sleeve. It's the bond, the understanding, the completeness I feel as an entire person when I am loving and loved by someone who is just like me.

So. Yes. I am.

[Bad_boi]

I'm fine with identities but putting restrictions on them is what pisses me off. Here is some actual quotes I heard from people in the LGBT community-

"Hy can't be a submissive butch, that means he must be a boi"
"All Butches date femmes and vice versa"
"You can be a b-o-i boi not a boy"
"If you don't ID as a boi why is that in your screen name" (LOL WTF?)

Others need to not limit identities. Your id is YOURS. So what if you break a few "rules" of your id. I choose how I identify, its bot a box someone else puts me in.

[Ginger]

Genuinely not trying to be confrontational but I'm not sure that this post rests comfortably with me i.e. maybe not intentional but my reading of it is that being "done to" is an element of being a "girly femme" and "doing to" is something of a polar opposite.


Also, whether someone is "done to" or "doing to" in the bedroom, why does that necessarily indicate a lack of equality in the bedroom ..... surely, if it's what both parties want, it is as equal in the bedroom as sharing equally in the relationship outside of the bedroom.


Long live the logic!

Love it, and not just because I agree.

[RockOn]

Finally getting back to you. Started to last night but dinner put it to the back of the queue.

Ciaran, yesterday morning I was in a hurry to leave the house. I owe you the apology for not correctly reading your initial post to my initial post.

Yes, of course there is total equality in the bedroom (as well as outside it) in regards to how I was describing my particular desires but I left out that part. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Otherwise, I would not have caught it.

Please key in on the two words "the ones" where I stated I am attracted to the girly femmes, "the ones" who only enjoy being done to. There are lots and lots of girly femmes who enjoy something different than what I am describing.

Lastly, being "done to" or "doing to" is not something that is defined as masculine or feminine. At least not to me. I have heard that lingo and have used it for years and years. It has served me in providing a shorthand method to describe ... that is all.

I came back to apologize to Ciaran, correct myself and not for the purpose of making myself appear more agreeable to site members.

[SirLucian]

great thread

[psykftm]

Partly to bump this thing again...

This friend of mine used to be a councilmen, and we've been hanging out and exchanging music (he's a musician) anyway, on top of motivating him to want to change the florida law on being able to change your license to whatever gender you feel is yours, he also became as miserably aware as I am that there is no butch on butch stories, porn, pictures, freakin nothing out there.

He has made a movie before, just a documentary about this lady that helped found a college and put together an orchestra, so he has movie making experience. He was thinking about making a butch on butch movie/love story. Damn that would be so awesome.

If you know any butch/butch movies, let me know because I can't find anything.

Take care,
-psykbutch

[butchiegirl]

The idea of being a minority in the queer community makes me smile. Being attracted to someone so much like me is not frowned upon. Meeting a fellow butch that gets my choice of clothes, ultra short hair, and refusal to conform to society's rules can't be impossible. They wink when they see me pass them on the sidewalk. Been told good luck with that quest. It's my destiny, not luck.

[o'queery]

Bumping for the LOVE of the masculine exchange between butches/boys/boi's/Ftm's

[GeeGina]

Why not?

Who anyone decides to partner up with - for a night or a lifetime - is their business. If one butch finds another attractive (and vice versa) I say follow the bliss.

To quote the Pope "Who am I to judge?"

So sayeth this femme chica...

[imperfect_cupcake]

Has it become a minority? in the 90's it was more the norm in my experience where I was, than butch-femme was from vancouver to seattle. And in Toronto - they didn't call it Bois town for nuthin!

I see a fair amount of it to my eyes but I have no idea how the people in the couples ID. I do know there's a couple butch-butch sites but I don't know if they are still up and going. I know sprrread - the first queer porn site all done by amerature (hot) had a ton of butch-butch in it and a few of the queer indie porns that came out in the early naughties (2000) had a fair chunk of butch-butch in them.

It does depend on your local demographic though...

[PoeticSilence]

Sometimes I'm really surprised that the online gay community can be so uncompromising and unforgiving and narrow minded about some things. (not necessarily right now, or in this moment, but in general) I consider myself to be Butch with some very masculine leanings, however, I've never felt inclined to adopt male pronouns.

I have taken butch lovers in the past and never felt strange about it, in fact, I remember it as being very natural and comforting, and above all, there was more than love, there was also camaraderie. An instinctual sharing and pairing of ..what? the soul? the intellect? something. I loved identifying with someone on so many levels and thinking about how hot they looked in my shirt or wearing my jacket.

I have taken femme lovers in the past and never felt strange about it either, in fact, in many ways, it was like falling into a "norm" of sorts. You know, of how things are "supposed to be". An expected pairing like "mom and dad". I don't have a preference towards butch and femme as a dynamic anymore than I have a preference for butch on butch.

I've never been femme enough to be able to examine a femme on femme relationship. I'm relieved about that in a way that only a butch could understand.

I'm fine with saying I'm a mother and have children. I'm currently married to a woman who refuses to accept labels and titles and expectations of how she should act/react/interact. I love that about her. It doesn't threaten my own perceptions of who/what I am. I love that we are exclusive in our relationship and that it could take until the end of time to discover everything we want to know about each other.

[Nat]

back when I lived in Austin, it seemed like most of the butches I lusted after were more into other butches than femmes.

[NitroChrys_Butch]

Saw in the femme zone a thread about femme and femme relationships, bot how is it with butches?
Is there any butches who only can feel attraction to other butches?

/R

Yes, absolutely yes. I am forever amazed by those who say that butch on butch is disgusting or wrong. Really? Who is anyone to judge what another feels or desires? Since when has anyone have the right to judge another about anything?

The butch/femme dynamic is easy to understand I think because someone is the more masculine and that is something that is the "norm". We are comfortable with the "norm" and God forbid anyone should deviate from that. (Chuckles) It is when we deviate from what is comfortable that we have to examine it more closely and open our minds to the possibilty that while we cannot understand it, we might at the very least be willing to accept it.

I do not wish to preach to the choir but I will say this. The dynamic between two butch personalities (for sake of arguement) is strong. It is real. It is powerful. It can bring both to their knees, literally and figuratively. The connection between two butches cannot be denied. It is an amazing thing. Just as amazing as two heterosexuals, two femmes, butch/femme and anything in between. A relationship where two people are committed to one another should be sacred and supported. Not nit-picked because it doesn't fit into a nice neat box with a pretty bow on it.

I understand the looks... the eye rolling.. the head shaking because two butches just don't fit that "norm"... and I know many do not want to be "normal"... many would just others to accept what "is". Don't analyze it. Don't pick it apart. Just let it be. I am not saying everyone who is not in a butch/butch relationship feels this way. But I have seen it first hand.

[NitroChrys_Butch]

Great Thread.

For me, I have always been been physically/mentally attracted to all of the masculine characteristics of Butch/boi/boy's & Transmen. I never sought out feminine women (for relationships) because my heart was never there. I always say that I adore femmes, I just don't sleep with them.

I came out as lesbian when I was 13 yrs old, and was lucky enough to be in an environment where I could evolve into the boy I now ID as today. I would go so far as to say that I have always felt like more of a fag than anything. I stay positive and grounded enough in who I am that it makes it easier for me to JUST BE.

It's hard to be minority within a minority. It's bad enough when you're not accepted as a whole, but to be an outcast among your own peers leaves a lot of room for my own self acceptance and understanding.

That being said.

The dynamic for me is intense. My ache for all things boy is worn on my sleeve. It's the bond, the understanding, the completeness I feel as an entire person when I am loving and loved by someone who is just like me.

So. Yes. I am.

Wonderful Your Sir is proud. *Smiles.... AND sometimes no one understands a boy/boi/babybutch BETTER than a Butch.

[NitroChrys_Butch]

I'm enjoying reading this thread, thanks to everyone for your thoughts. Most of my experience has been dating femmes but lately I have been finding myself thinking about/noticing butches. The community I live in is very femme/butch only. I like that people are talking about this, makes me feel a little less strange for my thoughts.:hangloose:

These thoughts are not strange. They are a natural and beautiful thing. Embrace.

[whale]

I like both but lately I've been crushing on more butches.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Wondering if i am the only masculine single guy that would more than entertain the idea of enjoying another's masculine energy combining with mine mmm a delicious thought it is

[CyberStud]

Wondering if i am the only masculine single guy that would more than entertain the idea of enjoying another's masculine energy combining with mine mmm a delicious thought it is

Never say never, but highly unlikely I would ever be attracted to another Butch unless that masculine energy resided in the form of a femme...well then I could be persuaded.

[candy_coated_bitch]

There's definitely butches and trans guys who like other butches and trans guys. I've known a number of couples over the years. :)

I think sometimes we get stereotypes in our community about sex and attractions and who butches and femmes are--but as individuals we are all much more complicated, of course.

If exploring something with another masculine ID'd person is something you want, I am sure you can find someone open to it.

[starryeyes]

Love who you love! Who cares! :-D

I get ickies from the stereotypes in our community that happen sometimes. We already are a judged group, and a small facet of the gay community. If two people find love in eachother, that is a rare and beautiful thing! Be happy and don't worry about what others think (and I'll live vicariously through you... Lol!)

Smiles :)

[~ocean]

butch w/ butch OMG LOL ohhh plz ~ who cares ~ we are all gay woman its funny, in real time no one cares BUT hey on the net its an issue ??? love and let love ~ besides I think its sexy ~ ** blows a kiss** to all my B&B friends **

[Diablo]

im butch..and i used to think it was strange for butches to be attracted to other butches....but then i realized what a stupid concept that was. I hear daily how butch on butch is just wrong. How unfair is that?!?!? We have lived a life that is discriminated against..why should we pass that onto our butches? Ive been attracted to butches.....and have had comments made. I used to say i preferred femmes...now...i just say it depends on the person.

[DapperButch]

There's definitely butches and trans guys who like other butches and trans guys. I've known a number of couples over the years. :)

I think sometimes we get stereotypes in our community about sex and attractions and who butches and femmes are--but as individuals we are all much more complicated, of course.

If exploring something with another masculine ID'd person is something you want, I am sure you can find someone open to it.

Yes, I would venture that say in looking at my combined experience with early 20 something FTMs professionally and personally (internet and in person) at this moment, there is a HUGE amount of FTMs who date cis males. Of course, you see them dating other FTMs, but I see a lot of young FTMs in the cis gay men's community or who are married cis males while they were living as females. It is really interesting. I seriously would say the majority of the early 20's FTMs that I currently interact with are coupled with cis males or only date cis/trans males.

Sorry, I suppose I am getting off track...CCB'S statements about trans guys dating other masculine identified individuals got my brain going (but I was talking FTMs specifically)

Butch on butch? Honestly, I only know a couple of Butches IRL, so my experience with butches is only on butch/femme sites. I would venture that in general the younger population are more open to dating more than one gender identities.

[imperfect_cupcake]

It depends on your demographic. For example, on b-f sites, it won't be a very fruitful place to look, but I'm sure (in fact I know) there are a smattering.

try facebook if there is no local group.

for example https://www.facebook.com/groups/butch2butch/

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Butch-on-Butch-Love/165825846769286

if you are kinky try fet life, there are groups for butch-butch and for trans-butch and cismen-butch. I did belong to a "butch women admirers" on fet life, but eventually I realised it was for CIS dudes into butch women, mostly, so I left the space to them.

But fetlife is another good angle as well.

similarly, try google plus, craiglist for more groups or events and OK cupid for those who like butches or "masculine energy" or "masculine vibe queers" etc.

You could always put an add up here somewhere.... though I suppose you just did ;)

good luck.

[Gemme]

butch w/ butch OMG LOL ohhh plz ~ who cares ~ we are all gay woman its funny, in real time no one cares BUT hey on the net its an issue ??? love and let love ~ besides I think its sexy ~ ** blows a kiss** to all my B&B friends **

No, we're not.

But I do agree that no one should care what another's preference is (I'm paraphrasing).

As long as it's consensual, go for it.

[ButchPride]

I identify as a lesbian butch, but I never really thought about who I was attracted to in butch-femme terms, However, looking back over my life, I am definitely more attracted to women who are "butch of center." My wife has a complex and beautiful gender identity that ranges from mildly feminine to fairly butch, and I love every bit of it. I am her first really butch partner, and it seems to work well for her, too.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Although I do not id as butch I have had my share of masculine partners in the past. I bumped the thread to get the conversation started again and to let new members know that in the complexity of today's world that even in the B-F community there are many ways to express that. I have met a few butches/queer on here that were/are attracted to me and other masculine members on the site. Granted most of them but not all were fellow members of the BDSM/kink community however, as some of the above posts have demonstrated masculine-masculine couples are out there and can be found even on this site.

I have experienced discrimination from our community due to who I am attracted to but who are we to say what type of person any one of us can date. Isn't it the same as being attracted to a type or look, let alone not having a preference per say and prefer to rely on a connection?

I apologize for entering butch space but I saw no reason to double a topic in the trans area...:hangloose:

[imperfect_cupcake]

To some it may be the same as being attracted to a type or look. But for me, being attracted to gender expression (masculine female) is my sexuality. Being attracted to a type (sporty, geek, metrosexual, dapper) is a bit different as that type is a subset of masculine female. Some express their masculinity in a dapper/urban meterosexual way, or a sporty way or a masculine geek way (my dad is masculine geek - dresses and behaves in that fashion), or backwoods/country masculine, or....

My personal understanding of sexuality is not "type" but I have preference to type.. My sexuality is not a preference, unfortunately. I wish it was. Would make my life a lot easier....

[Mel C.]

More love (and/or sex) in the world seems like a good thing to me. There are already too many narrow minded people. If you are butch and are attracted to butches, enjoy. Someone having an issue with butch on butch (I have encountered the on this site) reminds me of the cis males who throw a tizzy fit when they see/hear/think about gay men getting it on. If it isn't your relationship, it isn't your business.

Glad the thread has been positive. I was expecting a train wreck and am pleasantly surprised.

[candy_coated_bitch]

For me, the way I read it is that this site is for butches AND femmes. Not necessarily always butches who are into femmes and vice versa. I'd say the majority of us here are into the butch/femme dynamic--but there's space for other butches and femmes who are into different dynamics as well. I think it's important to make space for everyone because butches and femmes are NOT cookie cutters. Openmindedness is free and really doesn't hurt anyone.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

Sometimes when I think about both dynamics and the fact that I personally can be equally attracted to either a femme, butch, or another trans I wonder if it isn't maybe a different type of bi-sexuality. For me especially since I do id as male. Guess technically that would be pansexuality. I don't know just thinking out loud though I do get what honeybarbara is saying. Actually agree with it poor choice of words on my previous post, as usual

[imperfect_cupcake]

I know Alix, you were cruising for a spanking... :D

[ButchPride]

For me, the way I read it is that this site is for butches AND femmes. Not necessarily always butches who are into femmes and vice versa. I'd say the majority of us here are into the butch/femme dynamic--but there's space for other butches and femmes who are into different dynamics as well. I think it's important to make space for everyone because butches and femmes are NOT cookie cutters. Openmindedness is free and really doesn't hurt anyone.

I'm grateful for that. As a butch lesbian who has never really gotten into the butch-femme dynamic, I have found some online spaces that actively excluded me. It hurts to be closed out.

[Mel C.]

I'm grateful for that. As a butch lesbian who has never really gotten into the butch-femme dynamic, I have found some online spaces that actively excluded me. It hurts to be closed out.

I'm glad you are here! I think this site is more open than others, but some people aren't. I didn't interpret the site name to be only people in butch-femme relationships.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I'm grateful for that. As a butch lesbian who has never really gotten into the butch-femme dynamic, I have found some online spaces that actively excluded me. It hurts to be closed out.

I'm glad you are here! I think this site is more open than others, but some people aren't. I didn't interpret the site name to be only people in butch-femme relationships.

Ditto what Mel said....

[EnderD_503]

Yes, I would venture that say in looking at my combined experience with early 20 something FTMs professionally and personally (internet and in person) at this moment, there is a HUGE amount of FTMs who date cis males. Of course, you see them dating other FTMs, but I see a lot of young FTMs in the cis gay men's community or who are married cis males while they were living as females. It is really interesting. I seriously would say the majority of the early 20's FTMs that I currently interact with are coupled with cis males or only date cis/trans males.

Have to agree there. I know a ton of transguys who mainly date gay cismen or other gay transguys. For some it's situational in that they identify as pansexual or bisexual and used to mainly date women but after transitioning might not feel as accepted in the lesbian/queer women community. I notice that especially with more feminine identifying transguys who find that queer women are no longer as interested in them once they start identifying as more feminine/twink-y men.

On the subject of butch on butch though, have been noticing a lot of cute butch/butch couples around here lately :D I've never really been interested in dating butches myself or at least haven't encountered a butch that I was interested in dating. But that isn't to say I haven't found some butches attractive. There's a local drag king here who I think is pretty hot and my partner occasionally teases me (not in a negative way, just to be clear) for crushing on them at shows lol

[Tuff Stuff]

How about Femme and Femme?

:popcorn:



Note: Drag Kings I will admit,are hot.

[Breathless]

In my 'first coming out years' I couldn't wrap my head around femme/femme or butch/butch relationships, I think my mind was still too young at the time (20+ years ago) to see the balance, or how they found balance in their relationships. Now many years later, and with a much more open mind, it is so much more obvious. I, for myself, am attracted to the butch/ femme dynamic however happy is all I strive for, and yes as we know, it starts from within.

[Jane Bond]

Lately I have, but usually I'm 98% drawn to femmes. I was all dressed up after work the other day then I stopped at the 7/11 and this adorable butch was behind me in line. In a nice mannish dark gray suit, super short hair and a diamond stud in one ear. She eyed me and I smiled but freaked out and went out to my car. But I stalled around until the butch came out, smiled at me again, then climbed into into a huge silver SUV. She looked over at me and smiled and kind of waved as she pulled out and I did the same, but I had an urge to jump out my car, run and jump into her big manmobile and say 'what's your pleasure' or some corny line.
I was too chicken.
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

[Ascot]

Huh. I guess I should finally accept that I am a big fucking stereotype. I like to be the driver. I'm pretty good at lifting heavy things. I'm okay with picking up the check. The lawn, depending on the size, I'll hire a kid. Yeah, I'm probably going to hold the tongs or spatula at the grill. I like a good, short stick and can think of several uses for one right now.

To any woman who would consider withholding sex because I didn't "behave" I say, "To the moon, Alice!"

I have never been sexually or romantically attracted to other butches, but I understand how and why it appeals to many of my brethren.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Jane Bond is new, so I didn't jump all over the generalizations and the "butches do this" statements.

Maybe I'm mellowing in my old age?:hamactor:

I have nothing else to add...I don't get the butch on butch concept, so I won't join the discussion.

[JDeere]

Lately I have, but usually I'm 98% drawn to femmes. I was all dressed up after work the other day then I stopped at the 7/11 and this adorable butch was behind me in line. In a nice mannish dark gray suit, super short hair and a diamond stud in one ear. She eyed me and I smiled but freaked out and went out to my car. But I stalled around until the butch came out, smiled at me again, then climbed into into a huge silver SUV. She looked over at me and smiled and kind of waved as she pulled out and I did the same, but I had an urge to jump out my car, run and jump into her big manmobile and say 'what's your pleasure' or some corny line.
I was too chicken.
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.


I am starting to feel this way myself. The part about a flingette that is. But I do see the connection between butch and butch. I am open to being with a femme, butch or ftm.

[Jane Bond]

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

[DapperButch]

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

A bit better, but you might still get your butt chewed out by a person or two. Especially with what reads to be a patronizing apology.

I must admit I thought I would see a joke at the end of your stereotypes. I was shocked when I didn't see one. And I certainly couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the bullshit about femmes holding out. Pretty damn disrespectful.

[Daisy Chain]

Welcome Jane.
Your 7/11 butch sounded delightful ! Telepathy would be a wonderful thing at times eh?..{ not least on the boards, little Daisy joke there to lighten the mood..runs and hides behind the sofa !} Like when an invisible Femme such as myself second glances a butch and gets that `why the Hell are you staring at me` glower, when all I am thinking is..`Oh you look like a handsome fellow!`....any way...

as far as the thread topic goes, Butch on butch...fine...femme/femme also fine, bottom sub butches, top alpha Femmes...great...what a wonderful world if we can all just be exactly who we are and ask for what we want eh ? For myself personally ? I want/need to be with a top butch { I am !!} I am a Femme and happen to be a bottom. Those are my needs and tastes, that is who I am and what I like..for now at least..we are all evolving to some point. I defend my right to stand up and state that without judgement just as I defend someone elses right to say `oh thats not for me, I like this, that and sometimes the other`. Good luck to us all I say, be happy, open with your needs and pursue them.

Ascot...my honey too is {your phrase here..`a big fucking stereo type`} its what I love and adore about Hym...I smiled as I read your description !

In reply to some of Jane`s points.....a Butch and a Femme can equally find themselves with a raw deal if they are coupled with someone who does less than their fair share or has limited skills or inclination to do more. If you find thats you then speak up and say how you feel put upon and negotiate a reasonable, flexible arrangement to care for your home, obligations and each other in a way you are both content and happy with your lot.

Hold out on sex is not the way to go whether Butch or Femme..{ why would I punish myself ? !!}

OK Daisy Humor alert ahead...said in jest folks..

Jane, when you find your butch and have your flingette, long after both the uncomplicated sex and the game are over, which one of you is going to wiggle about the house in a French maid`s outfit with a feather duster putting it all pretty again?...just asking !

Daisy :bouquet:

[The_Lady_Snow]

If someone was to say

Snow you ain't getting no nookie cause you (insert whatevs)

I'd laugh, and go get me some nookie elsewhere, period..


As for your desires, I say go for it, life is way to fucking short to miss out, you may have missed out on some super hot sexy time with SUV driving hottie, oh well at least you have spank bank material.


PS

As for that french maid who's gonna wear that conundrum, tight leather pants and an aline shirt look mighty fine around a butch physique...

Just sayin'

;)

[Gemme]

Lately I have, but usually I'm 98% drawn to femmes. I was all dressed up after work the other day then I stopped at the 7/11 and this adorable butch was behind me in line. In a nice mannish dark gray suit, super short hair and a diamond stud in one ear. She eyed me and I smiled but freaked out and went out to my car. But I stalled around until the butch came out, smiled at me again, then climbed into into a huge silver SUV. She looked over at me and smiled and kind of waved as she pulled out and I did the same, but I had an urge to jump out my car, run and jump into her big manmobile and say 'what's your pleasure' or some corny line.
I was too chicken.
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

I agree with Daisy. The 7-11 butch sounds quite lovely.

However, what makes you think that a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch would be uncomplicated?

You've got to be careful with generalizations, of any kind. That hot, sexy butch could be your own 'single white female' or 'fatal attraction' waiting to occur.

Putting people into boxes sucks.

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

Agreed. We should be very specific when it comes to rants. Toes get stepped on otherwise.

No, not quite.....for the reason that Dapper mentions below. Sincerity is key for apologies.

A bit better, but you might still get your butt chewed out by a person or two. Especially with what reads to be a patronizing apology.

I must admit I thought I would see a joke at the end of your stereotypes. I was shocked when I didn't see one. And I certainly couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the bullshit about femmes holding out. Pretty damn disrespectful.

Agreed. People that 'hold out' are playing a power game and are seeking control of something they feel they can't or don't control. That is not specific to Top or bottom, femme or butch or FTM or MTF or any flavor of the rainbow in between.

If someone was to say

Snow you ain't getting no nookie cause you (insert whatevs)

I'd laugh, and go get me some nookie elsewhere, period..

As for your desires, I say go for it, life is way to fucking short to miss out, you may have missed out on some super hot sexy time with SUV driving hottie, oh well at least you have spank bank material.

PS

As for that french maid who's gonna wear that conundrum, tight leather pants and an aline shirt look mighty fine around a butch physique...

Just sayin'

;)

Agreed. Leather and A line tees are a nice look.

I like to see foofoo costumes and Leather outfits and everything in between and I like to see them on butches and femmes and FTMS and MTFs and every other flavor out there.

I am pro femme/femme, pro butch/butch, pro FTM/FTM, pro MTF/MTF....basically as long as it's consensual, I'm all for it.

:tea:

[The_Lady_Snow]

Naked as a jaybird works too!!!

:eatinghersheybar:

[Jane Bond]

rolling my eyes...

[CherylNYC]

...
But lately I've been thinking butches get kind of a raw deal in many ways. We pay for most of the dates, do the driving, pay the bills, lift the heavy stuff, mow the lawn, have to help with inside chores, and behave ourselves or else our femmes sometimes cut us off of sex until we toe the line. Do you other butches think we sometimes get the short end of the stick? I am considering having a flingette with a handsome, dapper butch who is a gentledyke
like me. I'll bet it would easier to get some uncomplicated sex, then maybe watch the game.

Hello Jane, and welcome to BFP. It's been a little while since I checked in here. That's a lucky thing for you. I'll follow the prevailing energy and react gently since, as they say, you're new around here.

Besides being sexist as T-Rex patiently pointed out to you, what you wrote is fairly disgusting and dismissive. It sounds like comical posturing to me, though. Have you really dated women who expect all the above from you? And it seems you claim to have delivered the above in fear of getting cut off from sex. Really? And then after you lifted some heavy objects in exchange for your bj, did she demand a diamond tennis bracelet before she put out a little more? Or, are you spinning some fantasy for yourself of what it means to be butch?

Like most of the adult women here, I work for a living and lift my own heavy loads, thankyouverymuch. If I choose a partner again, she'll be my equal.

[Jane Bond]

I'm glad you are here! I think this site is more open than others, but some people aren't. I didn't interpret the site name to be only people in butch-femme relationships.

I keep an open mind. While I tend to prefer and can more easily fall in love with a femme, there's nothing quite like a dapper, intelligent, humorous butch who knows what she's doing in bed.

[Jane Bond]

[/B]


Hi Jane - Welcome to BFP. I am not moderating you, but just letting you know that the items I bolded were problematic because they are sexist. Not all Butches pay for everything, do all the driving, etc. Not all Femmes hate sports, or withhold sex (my personal favorite item of the whole post) I guess, the reason I came in here (as a moderator) is that even though people were gentle with you via discussion, you followed all that with a dismissive eyeroll comment.

If you want people to listen to you, it's a good idea to listen back and not roll your eyes. At least publically.

Please PM me if you have any questions.<<<

Hi T-Rex..I try not to be sexist but sometimes I make inadvertently sexist comments, and when I do I'm often making broad, sweeping generalizations based on my personal experiences. I should have prefaced my words with "Lately, I have dated nothing but stereotypical, old-school femmes who did the following..."
The eye-roll thing was impolite and I apologize. Your advice seemed a mite presumptuous, but then I was fresh off a fling where the femme was a real piece of work and I was feeling very cranky and defensive. As I was driving her to dinner the night before, her cell rang and she actually made a date with someone right in my face. Grrr.
Thanks for the tips...

[The_Lady_Snow]

Who can blame her?

[Jane Bond]

Hello Jane, and welcome to BFP. It's been a little while since I checked in here. That's a lucky thing for you. I'll follow the prevailing energy and react gently since, as they say, you're new around here.

Besides being sexist as T-Rex patiently pointed out to you, what you wrote is fairly disgusting and dismissive. It sounds like comical posturing to me, though. Have you really dated women who expect all the above from you? And it seems you claim to have delivered the above in fear of getting cut off from sex. Really? And then after you lifted some heavy objects in exchange for your bj, did she demand a diamond tennis bracelet before she put out a little more? Or, are you spinning some fantasy for yourself of what it means to be butch?

Like most of the adult women here, I work for a living and lift my own heavy loads, thankyouverymuch. If I choose a partner again, she'll be my equal.

Hi Cheryl,
Perhaps because I have been out for three decades, I have indeed run into more than a few femmes who acted exactly as I described. Of course I agree that most femmes have evolved since the 70's and 80's, but as I told T-Rex, I recently dated three blast from the past gimme gimme-style femmes, and it freaked me out. I should have slept on it a few more days before posting. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers with my Neanderthal grumblings. Subtlety has never been my long suit.(f)

[The_Lady_Snow]

"Ruffled your feathers"

WTF, are you a troll? Or really that fucking dense?


Maybe just MAYBE you pick douche bag dates because you get what you give?


Seriously, stop typing...

[Jane Bond]

"Ruffled your feathers"

WTF, are you a troll? Or really that fucking dense?


Maybe just MAYBE you pick douche bag dates because you get what you give?


Seriously, stop typing...

WTF? What's wrong with the term, "ruffled your feathers"? What should I have used, some banal cliche that's generic enough to suit everyone? The name calling in your post is what's really offensive. Then to cast aspersions on my dates by calling them douche bags? You've ruffled my feathers and I suspect you're they type who must have the last word, so go ahead, then please block me.
This thread was between me and two women, but had nothing to do with you. Yet your excess aggression said more more about you than me. Bye now.

[Jane Bond]

Who can blame her?

Your profile sums it all up. :firetruck:

[homoe]

Regardless of a situation, I find making a date with someone while out with someone else, the HEIGHT of bad manners!

[fever]

I see that Jane Bond has recently come to this site, and certainly has some strong opinions. But, instead of bashing her, perhaps our more senior members could guide her how to talk on this particular site. A few senior members seem to enjoy getting the pot stirred, and I am glad that Jane Bond isn't backing down.

However, JB, some femmes don't expect the Butch to pay for things all the time, like to mow the lawn ourselves, although, having help with heavy items, or light items for that matter, are always appreciated. lol As far as withholding sex, that doesn't just happen to butches. It happens in an unhealthy relationship.

Perhaps you just need to look at the types of femmes you are attracted to, and adjust that checklist. (f)

:hangloose:

[Medusa]

Folks-

We are getting reported posts for this thread.

This thread is not in the Red Zone and therefore, this should not be a free-for-all for name-calling or getting too personal.
Please be civil to one another and do your best to choose language that is thoughtful and accessible.

Yes, this thread is going to bring up static for some folks but that doesn't mean we need to be cyber-slapping the shit out of each other.

Thanks,
Medusa aka Admin

[CherylNYC]

Hi Cheryl,
Perhaps because I have been out for three decades, I have indeed run into more than a few femmes who acted exactly as I described. Of course I agree that most femmes have evolved since the 70's and 80's, but as I told T-Rex, I recently dated three blast from the past gimme gimme-style femmes, and it freaked me out. I should have slept on it a few more days before posting. I'm sorry if I ruffled your feathers with my Neanderthal grumblings. Subtlety has never been my long suit.(f)

Jane Bond- Perhaps your use of the term 'ruffled feathers' wouldn't sound quite as dismissive had you not prefaced it with your previous dismissive and sexist posts. 'Ruffled feathers' is one way that men habitually speak about women who remind them of clucking hens. I have no feathers to ruffle, being an adult woman, and all. In fact, I was and am legitimately disgusted by your language and your attitude. I should remind you that YOU ARE a woman. When you write in a derogatory way about women in general, you're writing about yourself.

I was rather gentle in my first response to you. I advise you not to poke me again.

[JDeere]

I agree with Homoe, it was very bad manners to make another date right in your face, Ia m sorry that happened.

However, who cares if its butch/butch, femme/femme, etc, as long as it is between two conseual adults then it shouldn't matter.

I live by the 3 f's, If you AREN'T Financing, Fucking or Feeding me, then your opinion doesn't matter.

[DapperButch]

I agree with Homoe, it was very bad manners to make another date right in your face, Ia m sorry that happened.

However, who cares if its butch/butch, femme/femme, etc, as long as it is between two conseual adults then it shouldn't matter.

I live by the 3 f's, If you AREN'T Financing, Fucking or Feeding me, then your opinion doesn't matter.
See, I think that it is only the one I am fucking whose opinion matters.

My parents' opinion when they were financing and feeding me really didn't matter (maybe their rules, but not their opinions on me as a person).

Since then, I have financed and fed myself.

But, I do care about the opinion of those I fuck.

The end.

[JDeere]

See, I think that it is only the one I am fucking whose opinion matters.

My parents' opinion when they were financing and feeding me really didn't matter (maybe their rules, but not their opinions on me as a person).

Since then, I have financed and fed myself.

But, I do care about the opinion of those I fuck.

The end.

It means that others opinions aka outsiders don't matter, not the people you are fucking, etc.

[QueenofSmirks]

Sorry, it's a complicated topic and hard to avoid generalizations. I should have said This Butch does this and that. All better?

Actually no, it isn't all better; that last sarcastic bit made it just that much worse. It is actually very easy to avoid generalizations by saying something like "the women I have dated" do this or that. Your statements, and I'm sure you are very aware, were meant to bring all femmes into this shitty stereotype you've put out there. Perhaps you should broaden your horizons and meet a few femmes that can actually pump their own gas, cut their own meat, and make a living for themselves.

[QueenofSmirks]

Back to the topic...

Although I've always considered myself open-minded, I recognize that I had some very close-minded ideas in my early 20's. I'm ashamed to admit, but I thought bisexuals were afraid of commitment, and butches wanted to be like men. However, at the same time, I was one of the few in the queer community at large who understood, and lived, the butch-femme dynamic. That was a no-no in those days; in fact, being femme was frowned upon where I lived. I was accused of "trying to pass for straight."

Over the years I came to realize that people can be fluid in their gender identity, and who they love, fuck, build lives with, etc. can also be fluid.

As long as people are happy, and it's consensual, it's all good.

[DapperButch]

It means that others opinions aka outsiders don't matter, not the people you are fucking, etc.

I know, buddy, I was tired and in a quirky mood. I was just messing around. :)

[JDeere]

I know, buddy, I was tired and in a quirky mood. I was just messing around. :)

Okay LOL!:seeingstars:

[Jane Bond]

I see that Jane Bond has recently come to this site, and certainly has some strong opinions. But, instead of bashing her, perhaps our more senior members could guide her how to talk on this particular site. A few senior members seem to enjoy getting the pot stirred, and I am glad that Jane Bond isn't backing down.

However, JB, some femmes don't expect the Butch to pay for things all the time, like to mow the lawn ourselves, although, having help with heavy items, or light items for that matter, are always appreciated. lol As far as withholding sex, that doesn't just happen to butches. It happens in an unhealthy relationship.

Perhaps you just need to look at the types of femmes you are attracted to, and adjust that checklist. (f)

:hangloose:

Thanks Fever, I really appreciate it.
I hate to admit it, but I did most of my lesbian community & PC feminist stuff back in grad school and college, then I got a job, into a LTR and we both drifted away from the latest in Sapphic theory.
The femme behavior I described used a bit of hyperbole, because I had no idea this site was so stacked with PC police, Feminist volunteer editors and other literal types.
I don't back down easily if an issue is important and in real time, but a disagreeable website comment someone made would not make the list.
I am rather new here, but after a few comments, I felt like a thousand ducks had pecked me so I got lost for a while.
As memory serves, I've apologized to a few members whom I had offended, but I'd really prefer to speak my mind and make mistakes in order to learn the newest trends in BF relationships, even if I sound antiquated.
Teaching I like, lecturing, not so much.

[Jane Bond]

Regardless of a situation, I find making a date with someone while out with someone else, the HEIGHT of bad manners!

No Sh*t! We had just slept together the night before and that always signals to me a rapid approaching commitment. woops.

[imperfect_cupcake]

It's ok. I get fucked off because I tend to wind up with butches who: want me to be a house maid and do all the cleaning, do all the cooking, make sure we are on par with writing budget costs, play nursey for them whenever they get sick, look after their dog(s) when they are hung over, do the grocery shopping, do all the admin stuff with bills and letters, talk to the health services and bank and gas people if they call and out my number as the contact, talk to their parents and charm them when they don't want to talk to them, deal with their siblings in the same way, buy the birthday and Christmas presents for their family members, remind them of appointments, do their fucking laundry, and because I'm a massage therapist, give them a nice rub too. All while I'm working to bring in cash.

Cause I'm the girl. And if I don't do it, I'm a selfish princess and they pull the Little Lord Fauntleroy move of sulking in a corner for days and expecting me to emotionally care take and suck up and ask whats wrong honey?

And this is why I don't ever, ever want to live with someone again. I know it's not all butches. Just mostly the ones I attract as I'm a giant magnet because I'm codependent and *will* care take to exhaustion because of my upbringing. People will take advantage of that self destructive streak of mine.

So I'm going to date but only who don't want a domestic servant, PA and nurse because I won't be living with them.

That crosses about 90% of folks off the list. That's ok. I'd rather be on my own and happy, than taken for granted and sad and tired and lonely over it.

I've been single 3 years now and it's bliss. And I am thinking about femme daddies.

Also, my dyke flatmate has her gf over and she's cleaning the house for us every day. I've never had a housewife before. Fuck me, having a maid is great!

Which only underlines why I ain't doing it anymore lol

If you want a house cleaner - hire one
If you want a PA - hire one
If you want a massage therapist my rates are $90 for 60 minutes.

If you want a companion, a friend, someone to laugh with and hot sex, let's hang out.

Femme Daddies and strapping Stems included.

I think we all get fed up when we let others take advantage of things we aren't good with, with our boundaries. Solution? Get better boundaries.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Oh, as an aside

We only have the words you use to go on. No tone, no body language. So unless you type #hyperbole #imbeinoverdramatic next to what you write, we have no idea you don't mean what you say.

And that's Dutchess Feminazi to you.

[Jane Bond]

Oh, as an aside

We only have the words you use to go on. No tone, no body language. So unless you type #hyperbole #imbeinoverdramatic next to what you write, we have no idea you don't mean what you say.

And that's Dutchess Feminazi to you.

Dear Dutchess Feminazi,
As far as body language goes, I always stand up to post messages so I can twerk. As I twerk and type, I read aloud in a voice that tries to imitate Leonard Cohen.
As far as meaning what I say; to tell you the truth, sometimes I lie.
Ooops, just kidding.
:jester:

[Jane Bond]

[QUOTE=imperfect_cupcake;1027939]It's ok. I get fucked off because I tend to wind up with butches who: want me to be a house maid and do all the cleaning, do all the cooking, make sure we are on par with writing budget costs, play nursey for them whenever they get sick, look after their dog(s) when they are hung over, do the grocery shopping, do all the admin stuff with bills and letters, talk to the health services and bank and gas people if they call and out my number as the contact, talk to their parents and charm them when they don't want to talk to them, deal with their siblings in the same way, buy the birthday and Christmas presents for their family members, remind them of appointments, do their fucking laundry, and because I'm a massage therapist, give them a nice rub too. All while I'm working to bring in cash.<<<

You really mean that you've encountered some butches who are that demanding and locked in that kind of 1950s male husband stereotype? I have never met a femme who would do all that, or any butch who expected her femme to act that way. The femmes I have known and loved have been feminists, had careers, took no sh*t, but they were nurturing, sexy, fun to be around and willing to split household duties and expenses 50/50. Not to mention the lingerie, ooh la la.

[SaltyButch]

You know it's funny the things that pop up on your screen and catch your attention on any given day. So I saw this thread and my old self would have just scanned and moved on, but my new self feels the need to comment.

I have evolved as a person and moreso a gay person over the years....and anyone who knows me will tell you that I adore femmes and the energy they exude. Let me also say that I feel that everyone should love and enjoy whomever they wish with the obvious caveats attached.

I detest labels but sometimes you just need to wear one...I am a female identified butch, that is but one "label". I've noticed that at times the energy that exudes from someone just gets to me and I've been even more surprised that it's from another butch. I readily admit that this has been with online conversation and has led to some very hot and intimate discussions....so the butch/butch desire doesn't seem so taboo to me anymore. I'm not sure if I could pursue this in real time but you know I've learned never say never. Life is too short not to enjoy it and with whoever brings the joy to you.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Dear twerking bootch

Please include pictures or video with post so we can see the body language clearly. Understanding your interpretive dance is important to us. If possible, please have subtitles on your underwear.

Glitter rainbow kisses
Dutchess Feminazi

[imperfect_cupcake]

[QUOTE=imperfect_cupcake;1027939]It's ok. I get fucked off because I tend to wind up with butches who: want me to be a house maid and do all the cleaning, do all the cooking, make sure we are on par with writing budget costs, play nursey for them whenever they get sick, look after their dog(s) when they are hung over, do the grocery shopping, do all the admin stuff with bills and letters, talk to the health services and bank and gas people if they call and out my number as the contact, talk to their parents and charm them when they don't want to talk to them, deal with their siblings in the same way, buy the birthday and Christmas presents for their family members, remind them of appointments, do their fucking laundry, and because I'm a massage therapist, give them a nice rub too. All while I'm working to bring in cash.<<<

You really mean that you've encountered some butches who are that demanding and locked in that kind of 1950s male husband stereotype? I have never met a femme who would do all that, or any butch who expected her femme to act that way. The femmes I have known and loved have been feminists, had careers, took no sh*t, but they were nurturing, sexy, fun to be around and willing to split household duties and expenses 50/50. Not to mention the lingerie, ooh la la.

It's starts off that way. Then several years later it winds up being very different. I'm no carpet. I would never agree to such a thing. But four years later, after an egalitarian start, that is, very much what happens. I'm not old school. I'm post modern and feminist. Yet, still shit happens. I'm not blaming others- like I said before, when you posted about the *other* women you dated... The ones who were not like the ones in your above quoted post? The "gimme gimme" femmes (your descriptors) that you dated? Member talking abut those ones?

I will repeat what I said previously, I need better boundaries so that slippage doesn't happen four years later. I don't personally trust myself that after years of being with someone happens, and their behaviour starts doing what others have done, I will say clean up your act or hit the highway. I didn't with my exwife, instead I made allowances and excuses because life was being hard to her. And I loved her and cared about her.

It's not always simple. I find things go very much into dynamics that slowly slip, over the years, when living with someone. So, my choice is to just not. They have their place, I have mine. We treat each other's houses like little holidays. I've always preferred that. They do their own house chores, I hire a cleaner for mine (I'm not a haus frau), my money is mine and theirs is theirs to do with as they wish, not my biz. I can invite my mates over for a cocktail at 10pm, I don't have to ask if it's ok.

I just like the set up better. Keeps my sex drive healthy to have my own space.
I feel better about my boundaries. They don't have to be my daddy ALL the time, and I'm not their mum. I just like our independence :)

Different boats, different floats. :wine:

Good luck with yours

[Nat]

It's funny - I'm not used to reading comments like the ones posted by Jane in this space but wow do I ever hear those comments in person, especially one-on-one. In the real world, Jane's perspective is unfortunately the norm in some places. Happily not here.

A while back, I crossed a few butches off the dating list for complaining about what femmes are like in what seemed like a cartoonish way. It feels like in the real world - at least in central Texas - people either don't know what a femme is at all or imagine we are cartoons. As I told a friend at the time though, I'm done teaching femme 101. *shrug*

As far as butch and butch goes :) - if I were butch, I would be all about it.

[Martina]

You really mean that . . .

Really??? ======

[Jane Bond]

Dear twerking bootch

Please include pictures or video with post so we can see the body language clearly. Understanding your interpretive dance is important to us. If possible, please have subtitles on your underwear.

Glitter rainbow kisses
Dutchess Feminazi

Wow, I like this side of you about 95% better. Could you please send me pics of you demonstrating what you want to see me doing in pics?
BTW...My unicorn horn feels very firm tonight.

:rrose::mistletoe:

Sincerely,
TwerkyB

[Jane Bond]

[quote=Jane Bond;1028082]

It's starts off that way. Then several years later it winds up being very different. I'm no carpet. I would never agree to such a thing. But four years later, after an egalitarian start, that is, very much what happens. I'm not old school. I'm post modern and feminist. Yet, still shit happens. I'm not blaming others- like I said before, when you posted about the *other* women you dated... The ones who were not like the ones in your above quoted post? The "gimme gimme" femmes (your descriptors) that you dated? Member talking abut those ones?

I will repeat what I said previously, I need better boundaries so that slippage doesn't happen four years later. I don't personally trust myself that after years of being with someone happens, and their behaviour starts doing what others have done, I will say clean up your act or hit the highway. I didn't with my exwife, instead I made allowances and excuses because life was being hard to her. And I loved her and cared about her.

It's not always simple. I find things go very much into dynamics that slowly slip, over the years, when living with someone. So, my choice is to just not. They have their place, I have mine. We treat each other's houses like little holidays. I've always preferred that. They do their own house chores, I hire a cleaner for mine (I'm not a haus frau), my money is mine and theirs is theirs to do with as they wish, not my biz. I can invite my mates over for a cocktail at 10pm, I don't have to ask if it's ok.

I just like the set up better. Keeps my sex drive healthy to have my own space.
I feel better about my boundaries. They don't have to be my daddy ALL the time, and I'm not their mum. I just like our independence :)

Different boats, different floats. :wine:

Good luck with yours<<<<<

I understand what you're saying, and I'm pleasantly startled to realize I feel almost the same way. By that I mean I may want to settle down in the same house with a partner one day, but it's not going to be anytime soon. Yeah, I recall mentioning the gimme gimmes, but I was freshly back on the dating scene and my picker had to be recalibrated several times at first.
I like women like I like wine--the older the vintage...nevermind... I don't want to draw any more gunfire.

[Jane Bond]

It's funny - I'm not used to reading comments like the ones posted by Jane in this space but wow do I ever hear those comments in person, especially one-on-one. In the real world, Jane's perspective is unfortunately the norm in some places. Happily not here.

A while back, I crossed a few butches off the dating list for complaining about what femmes are like in what seemed like a cartoonish way. It feels like in the real world - at least in central Texas - people either don't know what a femme is at all or imagine we are cartoons. As I told a friend at the time though, I'm done teaching femme 101. *shrug*

As far as butch and butch goes :) - if I were butch, I would be all about it.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Wow, I feel like the donkey in a game of pin the tail on the donkey.
I have to admit, I don't have much experience with sites like this where people free-style their comments. Perhaps (hopefully) I am making all the mistakes right away so I can get past them asap. Or...maybe I am a donkey. Hmm.

[Jane Bond]

Welcome Jane.

Jane, when you find your butch and have your flingette, long after both the uncomplicated sex and the game are over, which one of you is going to wiggle about the house in a French maid`s outfit with a feather duster putting it all pretty again?...just asking !

Daisy :bouquet:<<<

That was funny! I think that phase has slowed down considerably 4 me.
I figured out what the deal was with that butch thing. I recently changed colognes, and this new one is some kind of space age molecular lab project that contains only alcohol and one ingredient that is supposed to meld with the user's body chemistry and amp it up so people either don't notice it at all or they ask what it is, follow you home, try to get in your car, or lick you on the neck.
I think butches must like it because they usually don't respond to me like that---all smiley and twinkly eyed. But it turns out femmes like it, too! WooHoo!
There is another cologne called Pheromone that attracts men and butches but ... I gave my bottle to my straight sister.

[imperfect_cupcake]

[quote=imperfect_cupcake;1028105]<<<<<

I understand what you're saying, and I'm pleasantly startled to realize I feel almost the same way. By that I mean I may want to settle down in the same house with a partner one day, but it's not going to be anytime soon. Yeah, I recall mentioning the gimme gimmes, but I was freshly back on the dating scene and my picker had to be recalibrated several times at first.
I like women like I like wine--the older the vintage...nevermind... I don't want to draw any more gunfire.


We'll thing is, people here are just as opinionated as you are. I've gotten into full on scraps with lots of people here, mostly years ago. I got my arse handed to me on a plate a few times. I stuck around and learned how to socially understand posting in large forums.

Understanding number one - people don't know context to your comments unless you actually tell them.
Understanding number two - saying, yeah, ok that was kinda shit. Sorry. And meaning it rather than trying to always keep a wry upper hand works well. But then I used to apologise for a living and having to explain to hospital workers that saying "sorry" to patients saved a fuckton of bad feelings, upset and me having to mediates formal complaint.

Cheek is hard to read in text from those you don't know. And it's really culturally dependant on it being funny.

Don't take it personally. And saying things in like "I don't want to draw more gunfire" ... Dude, put a cup on ;) it won't stop people from voicing their opinions on the subjects you talk about anymore than it would stop you from responding to their posts.

It's a discussion forum. People are going to tell you exactly what they think. If you don't like certain posters, block them. You won't see their posts. I have a couple people blocked.

That's just an aside about posting in large, community based forums. Some of us "know each other" for 15 years.

I personally miss the big meaty topics with lots of argumentation and critical thinking. And if you used some faulty thinking, you got called out on it. If you couldn't say "oh, right. Shit. Ok. I see your point" then you looked like a complete twat. That, at least, still happens here. People speak out and people take things on the chin.

Anyway, back to the thread. Sorry for the derail.

[QueenofSmirks]

<snip> ... because I had no idea this site was so stacked with PC police, Feminist volunteer editors and other literal types.


Read: "I had no idea so many people on one website wouldn't put up with my chest-thumping, antiquated, bullshit ideas about how femmes should behave."

[JDeere]

Hmmmm I kinda wondered by what was meant by the PC police but I got my question answered!

Personally why does it matter it it's butch/butch, you can't help who you fall in love with or date, etc. Love is love.

[JDeere]

Chat has me thinking about this again!

So I am bumping the thread, lets talk!

[ClintB]

I've been attracted to butches as well as femmes and in two LTRs with other butches

I think it totally can work IF both are comfortable with themselves. Unfortunately, in the last there seemed to be a discomfort in not having someone to "validate" their butchness. I was definitely the softer of the two of us, and I came to see they were ashamed of me. Hid me from friends and family, yelled at and punished me if I knew or did anything better than them in the "masculine" spectrum. Desired a certain bedroom dynamic that they then felt guilty for because it wasn't consistent with how they thought they should be.

I learned to hide. I would rejoice for time at home alone- I like to refurbish old hand tools and would throw a big old party for myself when they left.... then rush to hid everything in the back of the shed when they returned.

We always wanted to be able to enjoying the interests we shared.... hunting, fishing, driving off-road, camping...but the sense of competition killed it all.


Guess what I'm saying, is I get the attraction, but I know there can be some complicated dynamic. Put two healthy and secure butches together... oh the fun that be had lol

[JDeere]

I still stand by my original statement, I may have to go back and re read it. I am attracted to whoever I am attracted to, femme,butch,mtf, ftm. I refuse to discriminate but to each their own on things.

[ClintB]

Yikes, there is a lot of mud slinging going on here.

Look, a good portion of the human population are shitbags. Femme shitbags, butch shitbags, trans shitbags, cis shits bags, straight shitbags.... and it isn't your fault I feel you run into one. It IS your fault is your start generalizing from the few bad ones to the whole group.

And if it's happening consistently... I really question whose fault it is. If you don't want to be a doormat, DONT BE A DOORMAT. No, I'm serious, it actually is that simple. Plus I hate to say it, but a lot of people get off on being the victim. They seek out a certain position in life just to complain about it.

[JDeere]

Yikes, there is a lot of mud slinging going on here.

Look, a good portion of the human population are shitbags. Femme shitbags, butch shitbags, trans shitbags, cis shits bags, straight shitbags.... and it isn't your fault I feel you run into one. It IS your fault is your start generalizing from the few bad ones to the whole group.

And if it's happening consistently... I really question whose fault it is. If you don't want to be a doormat, DONT BE A DOORMAT. No, I'm serious, it actually is that simple. Plus I hate to say it, but a lot of people get off on being the victim. They seek out a certain position in life just to complain about it.

No mud slinging at all, just opinions lol

I see the doormat, victim all the time from folks.

[Kätzchen]

Years ago, while I was earning my Bachelor's of Science degrees, I became good friends with a butch lesbian, who had just moved to Ashland from Las Vegas, where she spent many years as a sex worker. We're still very close friends to this day. We sometimes attended the same core classes, and we gravitated toward being study partners because in lots of our classes, She and I were known to take on really hard dialogues in group discussions, bantering back and forth, etc.

Anyhow, She eventually found herself in a relationship with another butch lesbian, and they were so incredibly right for each other. Cutest couple anyone ever did see.

Her partner died a couple years ago (though), but we still keep in touch. And I am glad for that because She was my best butch friend, ever. Anyhooo, all this to say that it shouldn't matter who a person is in an relationship with or how either individual identifies.

What matters, I think, especially in my best butch friends' case, was that both of them enjoyed each other immensely and it didn't matter to either one of them that they sort of shared an similar identity in being Butch. And any of us who knew each other were happy for them because it's kind of uncommonly rare when you find yourself well suited with the person you fall in love with and in an committed relationship with each other.

I thought they were absolutely adorable....and I counted myself very lucky to have been an chosen close friend.

[ClintB]

I've been in both dynamics. I used to think I preferred butches only... it took a while for femmes to turn my head. Usually, I am the "softer" of the two. I think other butches are amazing and unique. If they weren't butch they were usually gender queer. I think I was really attracted to the queer aesthetic.

Femmes... it's so strange because I'm not really one who is that attracted to conventional beauty. So while I do see their attractiveness it doesn't really impact me the same. But recently I've gone crazy for them, and I'll tell you why. They really are like goddesses... damn if it isn't hot to watch them crush the world beneath their feet. The bitchier the better (using that in the best sense possible)... I love seeing a strong woman own some ignorant asshole. Their presence and strength is inspiring. I feel like I relax for once, because they got this shit.

But they make me hella nervous. Another butch I can just be frank. I'm all shy and twitchy around femmes

[ClintB]

So I realized my post was problematic... I basically fed into a believe that queer people look a certain way and that femmes don't look not queer. Rather than delete it I'm gunna own up and leave it... I guess we all drink the koolaid from time to time.

It makes me think, I think I held a lot of femme stereotypes. I felt insecure because they look like girls I've spent my life being grouped with and feeling so apart from. I could bet hack the girl thing and I think for that reason I felt, maybe even still feel, uncomfortable. I also have the, "they are pretty, I am ugly" insecurities. Slowly I started dating them, I still feel different, but I'm learning they can find me desirable and that without the society BS the differences are enjoyable and not threatening.

[DapperButch]

I've been in both dynamics. I used to think I preferred butches only... it took a while for femmes to turn my head. Usually, I am the "softer" of the two. I think other butches are amazing and unique. If they weren't butch they were usually gender queer. I think I was really attracted to the queer aesthetic.

Femmes... it's so strange because I'm not really one who is that attracted to conventional beauty. So while I do see their attractiveness it doesn't really impact me the same. But recently I've gone crazy for them, and I'll tell you why. They really are like goddesses... damn if it isn't hot to watch them crush the world beneath their feet. The bitchier the better (using that in the best sense possible)... I love seeing a strong woman own some ignorant asshole. Their presence and strength is inspiring. I feel like I relax for once, because they got this shit.

But they make me hella nervous. Another butch I can just be frank. I'm all shy and twitchy around femmes

So I realized my post was problematic... I basically fed into a believe that queer people look a certain way and that femmes don't look not queer. Rather than delete it I'm gunna own up and leave it... I guess we all drink the koolaid from time to time.

It makes me think, I think I held a lot of femme stereotypes. I felt insecure because they look like girls I've spent my life being grouped with and feeling so apart from. I could bet hack the girl thing and I think for that reason I felt, maybe even still feel, uncomfortable. I also have the, "they are pretty, I am ugly" insecurities. Slowly I started dating them, I still feel different, but I'm learning they can find me desirable and that without the society BS the differences are enjoyable and not threatening.

I think your post was fine.

It seems to me like you are figuring out you are attracted to strong, assertive femmes (and may also match well with a femme who tends to be the more dominant one in the relationship). It seems like you have opened yourself up to seeing that the "power" in a person can come from a feminine place, not just a masculine place as we have been taught. Femme energy is extremely powerful in its own right, and when you match that with a assertive woman you will see the "hot" fireworks come out when they need to "handle shit". It is definitely different when you see it in a femme, rather than just a feminine woman. That is what you are being drawn to. Goddesses, indeed...

[*Anya*]

This is a hard world that we live in.

If we are lucky enough to find love anywhere; I think that we should take it.

No one gets to walk in our shoes but ourselves.

[JDeere]

This is a hard world that we live in.

If we are lucky enough to find love anywhere; I think that we should take it.

No one gets to walk in our shoes but ourselves.

I love this post, especially the last part of no one gets to walk in our shoes but ourselves!

[JDeere]

I joined a group for butch on butch, on Facebook a couple days ago. I like it so far, I'm just glad to see like minded folks, of sorts.

[Lyte]

I just stumbled upon this thread. Looking forward to getting caught up on previous posts.

For some reason... I've been getting approached by butches lately. Its always awkward to convey to someone (subtlety or directly) that you're not interested. It feels even more so to tell someone that it's because they're butch. It feels a bit like shutting someone down before they even get out the gate. I don't like how that feels or sounds.

I like the femme energy ... and all that comes with it... that is opposite to my own masculine energy. The Ying and Yang that I find in butch/femme relationships.

[JDeere]

I just stumbled upon this thread. Looking forward to getting caught up on previous posts.

For some reason... I've been getting approached by butches lately. Its always awkward to convey to someone (subtlety or directly) that you're not interested. It feels even more so to tell someone that it's because they're butch. It feels a bit like shutting someone down before they even get out the gate. I don't like how that feels or sounds.

I like the femme energy ... and all that comes with it... that is opposite to my own masculine energy. The Ying and Yang that I find in butch/femme relationships.

So you are saying that you don't think a butch/butch can be a ying/yang deal?

[Lyte]

I think I'm saying... I've not met a butch that had the complimentary ... which has always been opposite energy .. that I dig.

No doubt there can be different types of Ying/Yang between two people. And no doubt some people dig Ying/Ying or Yang/Yang. ;) I've just not experienced any combination that has led me towards butch women.

So you are saying that you don't think a butch/butch can be a ying/yang deal?

[JDeere]

I think I'm saying... I've not met a butch that had the complimentary ... which has always been opposite energy .. that I dig.

No doubt there can be different types of Ying/Yang between two people. And no doubt some people dig Ying/Ying or Yang/Yang. ;) I've just not experienced any combination that has led me towards butch women.

I understand what you mean, however not all butches ID as women.

[JDeere]

Anyone else open to this? I am curious to see the ratio of butch/butch to butch/femme!

[Tuff Stuff]

A few weeks ago a butch lesbian flirted with me..I felt nothing.She had short hair and no makeup and was wearing a flannel shirt,blue jeans and dr martens..basically what I wear sometimes.She had a deep voice(probably from smoking) and really beautiful deep blue eyes.Still it did nothing for me.She works at a local gas station and is always trying to give me free jo jo potatoes with my chicken order.

Now if she were a lipstick lesbian,i'd be at her mercy.

[Dr_Finn]

Butch/butch is amazing! I am married to a butch lesbian, and increasingly ID as butch myself after feeling tomboyish but experimenting with more femme attire and hair at various times in my adulthood. I find that experimenting with butch gender expression has made things feel hotter than ever between my wife and I. The friction of female masculinities has given us new energy and deeper connection.

[JDeere]

Butch/butch is amazing! I am married to a butch lesbian, and increasingly ID as butch myself after feeling tomboyish but experimenting with more femme attire and hair at various times in my adulthood. I find that experimenting with butch gender expression has made things feel hotter than ever between my wife and I. The friction of female masculinities has given us new energy and deeper connection.

Yay, yall give me hope that butch/butch is going to see more norm, in certain places!

[imperfect_cupcake]

I think I'm saying... I've not met a butch that had the complimentary ... which has always been opposite energy .. that I dig.

No doubt there can be different types of Ying/Yang between two people. And no doubt some people dig Ying/Ying or Yang/Yang. ;) I've just not experienced any combination that has led me towards butch women.

I think this is a good way of putting it. I'm a femme that *has* met other femmes that have tripped that yin/yang dance step. And that's when I am attracted to another femme - but only then. And and also I'm attracted to non-iding tomboy types who do the same thing.

Basically I don't care what the ID is of the person anymore, I care about the yin/yang thing, some kink yin/yang suitability too, the similar values, similar humour, and respecting each others independence (as I personally define my needs around that).

So I don't think the ID matters much in that regard, it can come inn any package.

to some folks, it does matter. It did matter to me, very much up until a couple years ago, even though I started to meet more and more femmes that *had* that yang to my yin that I went "oh! hello..." over.

I still don't find certain kinds of femininity very attractive - but then, I don't find certain kinds of masculinity very attractive either - never have. So I think that's more about the type of chocolate, rather than not liking chocolate itself (really don't like milk chocolate much and can't stand white chocolate, but I go ape for dark, dark chocolate, or spicy dark. Or semi-sweet dark)

But say 10 years ago, I would have been happy to fool around with a femme but never have a relationship with one.

I think there are plenty of butches who are slowly figuring their way around this. Most of the butches I personally know have zero issue with shagging other butches, most would date other butches and half of them would have relationships with other butches whether they be women, genderqueer, or trans.

But I don't live where you do JDeer. Most of the people I'm speaking of live in Canada or the UK.

[firegal]

Anyone else open to this? I am curious to see the ratio of butch/butch to butch/femme!

Butch/femme has been my history. For me its like "Baskin and Robbins" 31 flavors..... most folks love ice cream... but we all dont pick the same flavor..And you can savor more than one flavor

[homoe]

Once I came home from work and caught my partner, who was butch and my ex, also butch, doing the do in the living room. On the hide-a-bed. So yeah it's out there. You just have to work to find it.

Oh dear.............:blush:

[JDeere]

I have joined a group on facebook for butch/butch. Lets just say its quite different.

[BermieSwim]

Well I just read, I think, several years worth of discussion on this topic and I've been a butch all my life and have always been attracted to butch. I did learn one thing that surprised me though... I had no idea my 40 years of butch on butch relationships was shunned in any way. Why am I just hearing of this now??? LOL

[Breathless]

I recall about 12 years ago.. a friend of mine was on the butch threads.. part of the mailing out group on a different site, and she was interested in a butch that was also in the group.. and they had to keep it hush as to not get kicked out of the group. Personally I think it's crazy.. we (generally speaking) are so hard on each other and ourselves.. Love is Love in my books, and if you are lucky enough to find it... embrace! enjoy! celebrate! and fuck those who can't get past their own judgements.

Well I just read, I think, several years worth of discussion on this topic and I've been a butch all my life and have always been attracted to butch. I did learn one thing that surprised me though... I had no idea my 40 years of butch on butch relationships was shunned in any way. Why am I just hearing of this now??? LOL

[Brisa]

I see Butch/Butch couples around all the time...it has been more common than you think....

[A. Spectre]

My beautiful and talented femme bride is the yin to my yang, the chocolate in my peanut butter, the aroma in my roses, and ALL things that complement.

We both love it that way, our relationship has that Butch-femme energy that pops! Her feminine smells, the way she moves her body, the way she shakes out her long scrumptious red hair.

So, whatever works for you. But for us, it is most definitely the Butch/femme dynamic.

[homoe]

I recall about 12 years ago.. a friend of mine was on the butch threads.. part of the mailing out group on a different site, and she was interested in a butch that was also in the group.. and they had to keep it hush as to not get kicked out of the group. Personally I think it's crazy.. we (generally speaking) are so hard on each other and ourselves.. Love is Love in my books, and if you are lucky enough to find it... embrace! enjoy! celebrate! and fuck those who can't get past their own judgements.

.....:goodpost:..............

[JDeere]

Well I just read, I think, several years worth of discussion on this topic and I've been a butch all my life and have always been attracted to butch. I did learn one thing that surprised me though... I had no idea my 40 years of butch on butch relationships was shunned in any way. Why am I just hearing of this now??? LOL


Ive heard of it being frowned upon for many years. It's a shame actually because it shouldnt matter who you love, people can shove their judgements up their arse as far as im concerned.

[Greco]

Life is very, very short.

If a person cares about what other people think
of their decision for a lover, or any decision for
that matter, than that person will be on
a roller-coaster ride of emotions for the whole of
their precious life.

I've learned that it's about energy. I "dance" with
femme submissives. My energy and they simply
fit, snugly...smiling.

Would I take a butch submissive? I would if she
had what I "dance" to; that butch
has not appeared in my life.

Do I care what anyone else thinks? No.

So, JDeere, love and be loved, fuck the rest.

Greco

[JDeere]

Also the community makes you feel unwelcome, if your b/b as well.

[kittygrrl]

Also the community makes you feel unwelcome, if your b/b as well.

If you're talking about this community, I don't think that's true. The site promotes butch, femme and everything else. There are times people (may) seem intolerant but it's usually because they don't understand or are fearful. Everyone is capable of growing and changing in time.. Sometimes we just have to be patient and love them anyway.

[JDeere]

If you're talking about this community, I don't think that's true. But, the site promotes butch and femme and everything else. There are times people (may) seem intolerant but it's usually because they don't understand or are fearful. Everyone is capable of growing and changing in time.. Sometimes we just have to be patient and love them anyway.

In general, online and offline. Online yeah it's made known that it's frowned upon and feels unwelcoming. Offline I see the looks and stares as well as hearing the talk. Noone should feel unwelcome in the GLTBQI community.

[kittygrrl]

In general, online and offline. Online yeah it's made known that it's frowned upon and feels unwelcoming. Offline I see the looks and stares as well as hearing the talk. Noone should feel unwelcome in the GLTBQI community.

J, it's funny you should say that because when i was younger i never knew b/f existed..every couple i saw was b/b and as a femme i was made to feel i was unwelcome and even told i didn't belong...so you see, meaness, indifference and ignorance..exists everywhere in different spaces and times depending..take heart it will change where you are someday..probably sooner then later..in the meantime when you get a stare, give them back a smile or a wave..you will feel better and just maybe you will make them pause and rethink :hangloose:

[JDeere]

J, it's funny you should say that because when i was younger i never knew b/f existed..every couple i saw was b/b and as a femme i was made to feel i was unwelcome and even told i didn't belong...so you see, meaness, indifference and ignorance..exists everywhere in different spaces and times depending..take heart it will change where you are someday..probably sooner then later..in the meantime when you get a stare, give them back a smile or a wave..you will feel better and just maybe you will make them pause and rethink :hangloose:


I date all over the spectrum. Butch, femme, ftm, mtf. I go out often and really people watch, like detailed watching. I see mannerisms, etc and know who possibly to avoid, im not worried about myself mainly the younger crowd as well as the newly out younger ones, to hopefully they wont feel unwelcome.

[kittygrrl]

I date all over the spectrum. Butch, femme, ftm, mtf. I go out often and really people watch, like detailed watching. I see mannerisms, etc and know who possibly to avoid, im not worried about myself mainly the younger crowd as well as the newly out younger ones, to hopefully they wont feel unwelcome.

J, I've always thought you quite young but very confident..i wish i'd had your mad skills when i was your age..

[JDeere]

J, I've always thought you quite young but very confident..i wish i'd had your mad skills when i was your age..

Thank you, I'm 41 so not that young LOL

Anyways, at a young age like 8 or so, I learned from my gram to read people in different ways and being a stickler for details as well as obsessive about things, helps me decided about issues.

[Lyte]

Seriously? That's wrong as well as ridiculous! :blink:

Also the community makes you feel unwelcome, if your b/b as well.

[JDeere]

Seriously? That's wrong as well as ridiculous! :blink:

Yes, it is horrible and ridiculous.

[Lyte]

I can appreciate that ... dating across the spectrum. Why not?! :koolaid:

As I sit and recollect ... my only dating femmes may have been due to the fact that that's how it was way back when. The menu in those days was UBER small and social norms, even in the LGB* community, did influence one's behavior.


I date all over the spectrum. Butch, femme, ftm, mtf. I go out often and really people watch, like detailed watching. I see mannerisms, etc and know who possibly to avoid, im not worried about myself mainly the younger crowd as well as the newly out younger ones, to hopefully they wont feel unwelcome.

*TQ hadn't been added yet. ;)

[Breathless]

I believe the moment each of us came out of whichever proverbial closet that we were in… Was the first moment we started living our lives like it was the only one we had. 'Those people' with their 'opinions' don't sleep in your bed, or live in your head and heart - soooo they don't get vote in how you live YOUR life. Look for your own happy JDeere..

As the lovely Ms Roberts once said.. I would rather have 30 minutes of "wonderful" than a lifetime of nothing special.

[JDeere]

I can appreciate that ... dating across the spectrum. Why not?! :koolaid:

As I sit and recollect ... my only dating femmes may have been due to the fact that that's how it was way back when. The menu in those days was UBER small and social norms, even in the LGB* community, did influence one's behavior.




*TQ hadn't been added yet. ;)

I don't discriminate when it comes to love lol

[JDeere]

I believe the moment each of us came out of whichever proverbial closet that we were in… Was the first moment we started living our lives like it was the only one we had. 'Those people' with their 'opinions' don't sleep in your bed, or live in your head and heart - soooo they don't get vote in how you live YOUR life. Look for your own happy JDeere..

As the lovely Ms Roberts once said.. I would rather have 30 minutes of "wonderful" than a lifetime of nothing special.



Honestly i wasnt making it about me, just using myself as an example of what I've seen and heard.... Plus i see newbies on here that have posted in this thread, i can't think how to word it, shocked maybe that b on b is frowned upon by some.

[Femminator]

Life is WAY to short to worry about how someone identifies.....it's about finding someone who complements your life. Love is love, it should never matter how someone identifies, what color they are, how much money they make or what sex they are.

I guess call me a romantic.*shrugs*

[homoe]

Life is WAY to short to worry about how someone identifies.....it's about finding someone who complements your life. Love is love, it should never matter how someone identifies, what color they are, how much money they make or what sex they are.

I guess call me a romantic.*shrugs*

:goodpost: