FTM's Attracted to Femmes

[veryfemme]

I have noticed that many of FTM friends date primarily butch women or FTM and I wanted to know how many FTMs are attracted to femme women? Is there a reason why you are attracted to femmes and are you also attracted to butch women or other FTM as well?

[ButchEire]

I haven't found that to be true at all, and everyone is different and it has nothing to do with how they identify. I myself am attracted only to femmes.


I have noticed that many of FTM friends date primarily butch women or FTM and I wanted to know how many FTMs are attracted to femme women? Is there a reason why you are attracted to femmes and are you also attracted to butch women or other FTM as well?

[veryfemme]

it seems like to me every time I find a nice guy attractive they tell me they are not interested in me because I am too femme and it sucks. I know everyone is different but no guys has proven me wrong just yet.

[ButchEire]

Too femme? That's funny. When did such a ridiculous boundary develop?

it seems like to me every time I find a nice guy attractive they tell me they are not interested in me because I am too femme and it sucks. I know everyone is different but no guys has proven me wrong just yet.

[veryfemme]

I really couldnt tell you but I have been turned away for being too girly and its hard and I hate it

[atomiczombie]

I am all about the femmes. I have no romantic or sexual interest in the fellas. But hey, there's nothing wrong with FTM's who like butches and other FTMs. To each their own.

[veryfemme]

I agree completely!

[mustangjeano]

There is no such thing as "too girly" in my book.
The more femme the better.

[Quintease]

It's funny, as I read the OP's post and realised that all the FTM's I know are dating femme(y-type) girls, even if they didn't necessarily before transition.

[LiaPDX]

I can confirm the "too femme" response. I've been told that by women who are not FTM.. That I'm too girly, and they prefer a soft butch or someone who is "sporty".
*shrugs* but it's all about visual preference to some. Which is cool, it's their thing.

[Sachita]

In the world of love and lust we just can't generalize. Of course we can have a 10 page tread proving that point yet again, debate, even argue or what we all know is true... it doesnt matter how you ID, what color, religion, etc. we're going to fuck who we want. As it should be.

[GPS]

I have noticed that many of FTM friends date primarily butch women or FTM and I wanted to know how many FTMs are attracted to femme women? Is there a reason why you are attracted to femmes and are you also attracted to butch women or other FTM as well?



I'm only attracted to Femme women, being it lesbian, bisexual or straight.

hard to find a good woman that even looks at FtM guys.

[veryfemme]

GPS - If I could find FTMs I would be in better shape lol - I have looked and most are taken or are not interested

[Liam]

I'm attracted to women, and I find women who identify as femmes, to be the kind which I am most compatible with.

[theoddz]

Well, since this site is primarily focused, though not exclusively (because it is INclusive!! :)), on the Butch/Femme dynamic, I would think that many, if not most, of the transmen here would be attracted to the feminine. I'm sure there's also guys here who probably have other preferences, too, but in the nearly 7 years I've been around in this particular community, it seems that most of the guys I've known here are attracted to Femmes/femininity.

I guess you just have to ask us, individually. :winky:

I'm attracted to Femmes, period. I have no romantic or sexual interest in masculine energy, but that's just me. :)

As a good friend once told me, "the heart wants what the heart wants".

....and that's the way it should be...and should be respected. :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[~Bo]

I'm trans and I'm only attracted to femmes. The girlier the better. :tease:

Hi.....and welcome to the Planet.

Where are you from in Florida? It's beautiful down there.

[Ebon]

I have noticed that many of FTM friends date primarily butch women or FTM and I wanted to know how many FTMs are attracted to femme women? Is there a reason why you are attracted to femmes and are you also attracted to butch women or other FTM as well?

I'm attracted to feminine energy.

[GPS]

GPS - If I could find FTMs I would be in better shape lol - I have looked and most are taken or are not interested

Eye openers ;)

[ruffryder]

Trans here and I Adore all femmes. <3

For those femmes that can't seem to find a ftm, Trans, or Butch interested in them, I think you finally came to the right place ! :)

[veryfemme]

hey ~Bo I am on the east coast and it is beautiful in FL but right now in my opinion it is way to hot for it to be Christmas!! I would like some 60 degree weather about now!

[QueenofSmirks]

Too femme? That's funny. When did such a ridiculous boundary develop?



Frankly I don't understand why people get so offended when they find out someone isn't attracted to them. I don't/won't slam anyone for their preferences. It isn't my place to judge them. Someone who says someone is "too butch" or "too femme" is really just saying "I am interested in X" or "I fit best with X", but of course, it could be said in a gentler way.

I think the majority of people are attracted to a particular segment, or segments on the gender spectrum. It's less common for people to be attracted to every single possible gender /gender ID.

If someone doesn't like you, or your apprearance, or your eye color, or your clothes... just move on. It really IS that simple.

[sarahwho]

I have noticed that many of FTM friends date primarily butch women or FTM and I wanted to know how many FTMs are attracted to femme women? Is there a reason why you are attracted to femmes and are you also attracted to butch women or other FTM as well?

I've noticed it too, but I have met very few ftm's in Cleveland. :4femme: WHERE are you!

[Leigh]

I absolutely LOVE femmes **drool**

[Ebon]

I really couldnt tell you but I have been turned away for being too girly and its hard and I hate it

Never too girly. The girlier the better like Bo said. I like someone that will balance out my masculine energy with their feminine energy. A friend of mine got cornered once in a lesbian bar because she's femme. They assumed that she was straight. I thought it was very narrow minded of them. For a long time I didn't realize I could have a girlfriend that was femme, hell I didn't even know what it was. A friend of mine said to me that I liked straight girls so I thought I did, until I found the butch-femme community and realized that I just liked femmes.

Before anyone starts a lesson on gendernomics I realize that straight girls can also be butch and femme girls can be straight etc and so on....

[Nadeest]

I'm only attracted to Femme women, being it lesbian, bisexual or straight.

hard to find a good woman that even looks at FtM guys.

I sure as hell will look at FtM guys, however, I don't know if I would be classfied as a 'good woman' or not.

[chai~]

*raising my beautifully manicured hand* been accused of being "too girly" also...broke my heart, but I won't change who I am to suit someone better. Hang in there, when you find the boi of your dreams, oh my, you will know it! And hy will enjoy you in your delicious girly self!!

[kannon]

<----aime la femme

[The_Lady_Snow]

I sure as hell will look at FtM guys, however, I don't know if I would be classfied as a 'good woman' or not.

Honey, you are a good woman! No one should have an say so on that alone, I'm not the girliest of girls, not hyper pink, or glittery but I am woman and my guy got hooked not on those aspects but on other things that make me who I am. If someone is gonna judge and date you based on some scale of femininity then they are losing out cause damn one can't be all make up and high heels 24/7 a girl has to be grungy once in awhile!

[Electrocell]

Ladies maybe it is not because you are a girly girl or to femme for them , it's because they might think you are a high maintenance femme whether you are or not. They just might be saying that you are too femme instead of coming out and saying you would cost me alot of money .Not saying this to be nasty but alot of guys automatically think this way if they think you will need alot of things to keep you happy.

[sanee66]

Trans here and I Adore all femmes. <3

For those femmes that can't seem to find a ftm, Trans, or Butch interested in them, I think you finally came to the right place ! :)

i certainly hope so!!

[sanee66]

I'm only attracted to Femme women, being it lesbian, bisexual or straight.

hard to find a good woman that even looks at FtM guys.

maybe we arent lookin in the right place and just missing each other?

[Leigh]

I have also not been able to find femmes who will seriously look My way and yet I love femmes :)

[sanee66]

I have also not been able to find femmes who will seriously look My way and yet I love femmes :)

<<<looking Matthews way very seriously.

Honestly, and for us femmes that are interested, we cant get anyone to take notice.

[Leigh]

I promise you sanee, I am one guy that will *always* look your way :)

[sanee66]

I promise you sanee, I am one guy that will *always* look your way :)

waiting for the look

[Leigh]

waiting for the look


**Looks at you from afar, a smile on My face**

:)

[Julien]

I thought I would stop by and see what's going on in this thread and introduce myself. I'm Julien and hello to one and all. I hope you are having a great evening. :sunglass:

[~Bo]

Honey, you are a good woman! No one should have an say so on that alone, I'm not the girliest of girls, not hyper pink, or glittery but I am woman and my guy got hooked not on those aspects but on other things that make me who I am. If someone is gonna judge and date you based on some scale of femininity then they are losing out cause damn one can't be all make up and high heels 24/7 a girl has to be grungy once in awhile!




Maybe not, but you always look girlie in that wet t-shirt. :tease:

[Quintease]

I too have been accused of being 'too girly' which is freaky as aside from the way I present, there is nothing girly about me, even my husband doesn't think I'm girly! I know some people just don't like long hair and makeup regardless of personality, but others just assumed I would be 'girly' purely based on looks. From the point they clapped eyes on me it was all about the box they thought I fit into, rather than the actual person who was in front of them.

Luckily my FTM loves me as I am and didn't care that I suck at romance and have to be reminded to change the bedsheets..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Maybe not, but you always look girlie in that wet t-shirt. :tease:


Now now ~bo we all know breasts do not equate girl/girly!!! :p

[veryfemme]

I love that you said that about the balancing of energy because that is so key to me is finding that balance between my extreme feminine side their masculine side.

Never too girly. The girlier the better like Bo said. I like someone that will balance out my masculine energy with their feminine energy. A friend of mine got cornered once in a lesbian bar because she's femme. They assumed that she was straight. I thought it was very narrow minded of them. For a long time I didn't realize I could have a girlfriend that was femme, hell I didn't even know what it was. A friend of mine said to me that I liked straight girls so I thought I did, until I found the butch-femme community and realized that I just liked femmes.

Before anyone starts a lesson on gendernomics I realize that straight girls can also be butch and femme girls can be straight etc and so on....

[QueenofSmirks]

Ladies maybe it is not because you are a girly girl or to femme for them , it's because they might think you are a high maintenance femme whether you are or not. They just might be saying that you are too femme instead of coming out and saying you would cost me alot of money .Not saying this to be nasty but alot of guys automatically think this way if they think you will need alot of things to keep you happy.

Or maybe they really ARE just saying "you're too femme" because they aren't attracted to femmes, or hyper feminine women, or femininity at all. Some people really ARE just attracted to certain looks or personalities. Granted, there is a better way to say it, but not everyone is diplomatic. If someone said to me "I don't like brunettes", I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[1ladyface]

Honestly, and for us femmes that are interested, we cant get anyone to take notice.

Sanee, thanks for this. I pass as straight...always. And I'm not really into rainbows or triangles so I'm only visible as queer in queer spaces, and even then only if I have my hand in the back pocket of a lovers carharts.

But I think there have to be some other indicators that other queer folk can pick up on, if they're looking. These are the first few that come to mind:

1. vintage styleyness
2. artsy/creative/alternative looks (stuff that clearly isn't from the mall)
3. really red lipstick
4. being overdressed
5. rejecting cisdudes (gently of course)

What do you all think? And what are some of your femme spotting tricks?

And, if i were to ever get up the courage to approach a stranger i was reasonably confident was FTM...how do you guys like to be hit on?

So far i've only ever handed boifolk a note with my phone number. And that's worked but it would be nice to actually connect in that moment rather than getting a text later.

[Quintease]

My Gaydar is excellent!:D Even now that I'm not in gay clubs so much.

Recently, I was walking down my street (which is pretty gay so you'd expect to see a few lesbians) and a saw a woman. A pretty ordinary woman, long hair, handbag, clothes.. but my eyes grabbed her and said 'Look at that woman'. So I looked and wondered why I was looking, right up until she approached a masculine-looking woman and smiled a shy smile. 'Yay!', I thought 'I can still pick 'em!'.

I did watch for a few more moments just to make sure and yes, they were certainly not just friends.

..just wanted to brag

[blush]

Sanee, thanks for this. I pass as straight...always. And I'm not really into rainbows or triangles so I'm only visible as queer in queer spaces, and even then only if I have my hand in the back pocket of a lovers carharts.

But I think there have to be some other indicators that other queer folk can pick up on, if they're looking. These are the first few that come to mind:

1. vintage styleyness
2. artsy/creative/alternative looks (stuff that clearly isn't from the mall)
3. really red lipstick
4. being overdressed
5. rejecting cisdudes (gently of course)

What do you all think? And what are some of your femme spotting tricks?

And, if i were to ever get up the courage to approach a stranger i was reasonably confident was FTM...how do you guys like to be hit on?

So far i've only ever handed boifolk a note with my phone number. And that's worked but it would be nice to actually connect in that moment rather than getting a text later.
Why are these indicators of a femme?

[The_Lady_Snow]

I gotta be real and say I own nothing vintage, I'm not artsy hell I can't draw a straight line and I'm not sure what over dressed is unless you mean layering...

[Gemme]

Sanee, thanks for this. I pass as straight...always. And I'm not really into rainbows or triangles so I'm only visible as queer in queer spaces, and even then only if I have my hand in the back pocket of a lovers carharts.

But I think there have to be some other indicators that other queer folk can pick up on, if they're looking. These are the first few that come to mind:

1. vintage styleyness
2. artsy/creative/alternative looks (stuff that clearly isn't from the mall)
3. really red lipstick
4. being overdressed
5. rejecting cisdudes (gently of course)

What do you all think? And what are some of your femme spotting tricks?

And, if i were to ever get up the courage to approach a stranger i was reasonably confident was FTM...how do you guys like to be hit on?

So far i've only ever handed boifolk a note with my phone number. And that's worked but it would be nice to actually connect in that moment rather than getting a text later.

Were you using these indicators for yourself or were you saying for femmes in general?

I'm confused.

[apretty]

1. vintage styleyness
2. artsy/creative/alternative looks (stuff that clearly isn't from the mall)
3. really red lipstick
.
5. rejecting cisdudes (gently of course)


These attributes describe my straightest friend. She also does Burlesque and is beautiful, mid-40s and has an amazing, much-adored and full, shapely ass (*And if you're in SF she'll wax your naughty bits!).

[Ebon]

ANNNDDDDD here comes the lesson in gendernomics....*gets a pen and paper to see what the real femmes have to say.*

[The_Lady_Snow]

ANNNDDDDD here comes the lesson in gendernomics....*gets a pen and paper to see what the real femmes have to say.*



Ahh see there is no what makes a Femme "real" we just "are" lipstick or no lipstick..:) (f)

[sanee66]

I thought I would stop by and see what's going on in this thread and introduce myself. I'm Julien and hello to one and all. I hope you are having a great evening. :sunglass:

hello Julien, nice to meet you!!

[Martina]

1. vintage styleyness
2. artsy/creative/alternative looks (stuff that clearly isn't from the mall)
3. really red lipstick
4. being overdressed
5. rejecting cisdudes (gently of course)



There are a lot of femmes like this. Femme theory used to talk about this as our type, as if we are more performative in our femininity than other women. i disagree that most femmes are like this. i certainly am not. i also disagree that femmes perform femininity in ways that are that different from some straight women. There are some awesome straight women who perform femininity in transgressive ways. Anyway, i know what you are talking about, and i agree it is based in some reality. But i resist the stereotype.

[ruffryder]

What do you all think? And what are some of your femme spotting tricks?

And, if i were to ever get up the courage to approach a stranger i was reasonably confident was FTM...how do you guys like to be hit on?

So far i've only ever handed boifolk a note with my phone number. And that's worked but it would be nice to actually connect in that moment rather than getting a text later.


I'm clueless! LOL I don't know until I'm hit with a 2x4. As for approaching, please do and just say hi and talk about everyday things. Thank you!

[veryfemme]

Most femmes would ruffy but for femmes like me who look 100% straight it's not even easy to be approached or talked to by another butch let alone FTMs.

I'm clueless! LOL I don't know until I'm hit with a 2x4. As for approaching, please do and just say hi and talk about everyday things. Thank you!

[ruffryder]

Great thread! I think this will bring awareness. . and I am agreeing with you. So why not let it be known you are interested if they are not sure about your interest? One will never know unless there is someone who initiates. My last g/f I was in a relationship with for 5 years is straight and she let it be known to me she was interested!

[veryfemme]

Call me old school but I like to be approached, not necessarily approach someone. It's part of my femininity I guess. Does make it hard but if I want something or someone bad enough I'll be more forward

[blush]

It's not my job to "look femme" or roll around in a stereotype of femme to make myself more noticeable. This is femme invisibility at its finest when our community is too lazy to delve past the "too straight" stereotype to see femmes.

Imagine a world where butches and ftms had to wear indicators in order to be recognized.

[atomiczombie]

Something I have learned is there are as many ways to be/look Femme as there are Femmes. You can't make assumptions based on something as superficial as how someone looks. You have to get to know her. It's in her energy and way of being in the world more than anything.

[DapperButch]

Too femme? That's funny. When did such a ridiculous boundary develop?


Frankly I don't understand why people get so offended when they find out someone isn't attracted to them. I don't/won't slam anyone for their preferences. It isn't my place to judge them. Someone who says someone is "too butch" or "too femme" is really just saying "I am interested in X" or "I fit best with X", but of course, it could be said in a gentler way.

I think the majority of people are attracted to a particular segment, or segments on the gender spectrum. It's less common for people to be attracted to every single possible gender /gender ID.

If someone doesn't like you, or your apprearance, or your eye color, or your clothes... just move on. It really IS that simple.



I hope that ButchEire comes back to clarify, but I really think that hy was being tongue in cheek while trying to be supportive of the OP who was sadly lamenting the fact that she struggles with finding a FTM who is interested in femmes. I personally didn't see the OP as being offended by it, rather she is just saying she wished she could find this type of FTM.

Ladies maybe it is not because you are a girly girl or to femme for them , it's because they might think you are a high maintenance femme whether you are or not. They just might be saying that you are too femme instead of coming out and saying you would cost me alot of money .Not saying this to be nasty but alot of guys automatically think this way if they think you will need alot of things to keep you happy.

The OP indicated that she was talking about FTMs preferring other masculine defining people rather than femmes. She didn't say anything about about high femmes, or femmy femmes, or whatever...just "femmes women".

As an aside, I have never thought of what you describe as a "girly girl" as automatically being a "high maintenance femme" or one who spends a lot of money on her outside self or would expect me to spend that on her. Being on the extreme end of "feminine" (society's definition based on external presentation) doesn't equate to this. Women do their own nails, dye their own hair, etc (the accoutrements of "girly girl"). I am actually surprised by your statement, as I personally haven't heard other masculine identified people say this before?

[DapperButch]

There are a lot of femmes like this. Femme theory used to talk about this as our type, as if we are more performative in our femininity than other women. i disagree that most femmes are like this. i certainly am not. i also disagree that femmes perform femininity in ways that are that different from some straight women. There are some awesome straight women who perform femininity in transgressive ways. Anyway, i know what you are talking about, and i agree it is based in some reality. But i resist the stereotype.

I just wanted to highlight this post. I concur with all of it!

[blush]

Ladies maybe it is not because you are a girly girl or to femme for them , it's because they might think you are a high maintenance femme whether you are or not. They just might be saying that you are too femme instead of coming out and saying you would cost me alot of money .Not saying this to be nasty but alot of guys automatically think this way if they think you will need alot of things to keep you happy.

Yeah, I don't date butches or ftms that are concerned with their appearence for that reason exactly. They might just want my money.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic,
blush

[SweetJane]

This is a very interesting thread. Being my age, I pass as straight--and in the wider world out there it's nobody's business how I identify. But when I'm in this community, it is more difficult. I'm old school and a very, very late bloomer so a lot of this is new to me. I also prefer to be approached but I will mingle and make small talk in a group. In fact, I'm struggling today on whether to go to a couple events in the city tonight when I know absolutely no one and will go alone. It's a tough call.

[twist of lime]

Ladies maybe it is not because you are a girly girl or to femme for them , it's because they might think you are a high maintenance femme whether you are or not. They just might be saying that you are too femme instead of coming out and saying you would cost me alot of money .Not saying this to be nasty but alot of guys automatically think this way if they think you will need alot of things to keep you happy.

Now, now that isn't always the case, but I can get where you are coming from. All that fluffin' n' carryin' on can be intimidating. haha I can see where one might be scared. Handbags and shoes and and and... can get expensive.

*disclaimer* I know there are varying degrees of femme-ness and some may not even like handbags or shoes or or or...

[spritzerJ]

Now, now that isn't always the case, but I can get where you are coming from. All that fluffin' n' carryin' on can be intimidating. haha I can see where one might be scared. Handbags and shoes and and and... can get expensive.

*disclaimer* I know there are varying degrees of femme-ness and some may not even like handbags or shoes or or or...


I am one of those varied degree femmes who is still viewed as girly. Which cheers me up and amuses me. So as long as my perceived maintenance isn't held against me it can be charming. But when the perceived maintenance cost is held against me without evidence I do get prickly and know to keep moving on.
:blueheels:

[apretty]

As an aside, I have never thought of what you describe as a "girly girl" as automatically being a "high maintenance femme" or one who spends a lot of money on her outside self or would expect me to spend that on her. Being on the extreme end of "feminine" society's definition based on external presentation) doesn't equate to this. Women do their own nails, dye their own hair, etc (the accoutrements of "girly girl"). I am actually surprised by your statement, as I personally haven't heard other masculine identified people say this before?

This is so true! I've never heard any masculine identifying person who professed to an attraction to Femme as concerned with the expense or 'maintenance' of presenting femme (in all of the social and historic manners of femme presentation)...

At the same time I hear a lot of talk on this subject of high maintenance/too girly and it feels both femme vs femme (competitive) and heteronormative--though you probably can't extract one from the other.

Thoughts?

[theoddz]

Hmmmmm....well, I've never thought about declining an opportunity of getting to know a woman I've found to be interesting, simply because she was "girly" and I suspected that that fact was going to "cost" me, monetarily. :blink:

My best friend of over 25 years is a delightful Femme and has been my friend and confidant for all these years. When we've gone out for a meal, a few of the waitresses we've had have openly flirted with me. Irene gets a good laugh out of it because I never seem to notice it. It goes right over my head. I am a friendly guy, of course, and I try to smile at everyone and be sweet, give compliments and such, but I guess I hardly ever see the "flirt" part of it, mostly because I've "deconditioned" myself to it for so many years.

Being my age (now 51), and having lived so many of my years in a Butch shell, before transitioning, I developed a sort of "skin", or 2X4 nature, and I think that is because of the (seemingly) constant whispering, snickering, demeaning and sometimes just calloused remarks aimed at us by str8 homo/transphobes. It's like you just turn that switch off that notices how others look at us, talk about us, etc. As it turns out, that's a double edged sword because I have trouble recognizing/paying attention to a woman who might be trying to get my attention in the flirty, or positive, sense. Oh, I have pretty good "gaydar", having lived in the Lesbian/Queer world for 30+ years, but I'm not good with recognizing the "come on". :|

Since completely transitioning and now passing 100%, I've found that this particular trait I have with this has served to my definite disadvantage, because unlike most/many of my XY brothers, I just don't have that "aggressive" confident trait of pursuing a woman, or recognizing her attentions. It's really left me out in the cold a lot of times.

I prefer a woman who is more subtly direct, if that makes sense. It's not what I'd term "aggressive", insomuch as more directly approaching me and wanting to get to know me. Once the cards are on the table, I'm much more likely to work my courage up to go further. If she's more after my friendship first, the more likely I am to be attracted to her.

On the other hand, I often wonder if I had had the opportunity to have transitioned say, in my 20's or earlier, would I be differently-minded?? Perhaps.....yeah.....probably. :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[Miss July]

Ladies maybe it is not because you are a girly girl or to femme for them , it's because they might think you are a high maintenance femme whether you are or not. They just might be saying that you are too femme instead of coming out and saying you would cost me alot of money .Not saying this to be nasty but alot of guys automatically think this way if they think you will need alot of things to keep you happy.

Cost you too much $$ really??
I take care of myself just fine and cost no one $.
FYI I adore FTMS and I'm VERY femme and never seem to have problems finding them in hiding. Although I think many times they ASSume we are not interested in their handsome selves.
Again it's all ones perception.

Just my .02

[Miss July]

It's not my job to "look femme" or roll around in a stereotype of femme to make myself more noticeable. This is femme invisibility at its finest when our community is too lazy to delve past the "too straight" stereotype to see femmes.

Imagine a world where butches and ftms had to wear indicators in order to be recognized.

Amen.....!

[clay]

Yeah, I don't date butches or ftms that are concerned with their appearence for that reason exactly. They might just want my money.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic,
blush


you rock......smiles (f)

[Miss July]

I gotta be real and say I own nothing vintage, I'm not artsy hell I can't draw a straight line and I'm not sure what over dressed is unless you mean layering...

I still lust ya
*Smirk's*

[QueenofSmirks]

I hope that ButchEire comes back to clarify, but I really think that hy was being tongue in cheek while trying to be supportive of the OP who was sadly lamenting the fact that she struggles with finding a FTM who is interested in femmes. I personally didn't see the OP as being offended by it, rather she is just saying she wished she could find this type of FTM.

The OP indicated that she was talking about FTMs preferring other masculine defining people rather than femmes. She didn't say anything about about high femmes, or femmy femmes, or whatever...just "femmes women".



No clarification needed. I've seen the same type of posts in this and other threads, i.e. "I'm heartbroken because someone said I'm too XYZ". I stand behind my statement in general, not just in response to a single post in this thread.

[twist of lime]

Soooo, as I understand it, sometimes there are clues and sometimes there are not.

There are many things that could be visual signals and there are many things that are not.
(Signals of the mind, I imagine. *hypnotic eyes)

There are things that are true for one, but not for the next, but no less true and those things do not automatically oust that person from any said group.

People in general are becoming so diverse, it makes it hard to deduce much about any one person beyond what we can see. What I'm saying is that you could see anyone, like any one of us, anywhere in the world and say "This is China", "This is the U.S", "This is Africa", "This is Mexico", "This is Finland", and so on. This does not mean that any one of these people maintain or have interests in traditions specific to that country (and not to say that they don't, either). You may very well find that the person in China and the one in Africa have the same interests as you, less difference, if you will.

Soooo... all that being said, I guess we need to open our mouths and start getting to know one another. To know the truth (and depending on how much you are told, even that can be suspect at times... lol).

[DapperButch]

This is so true! I've never heard any masculine identifying person who professed to an attraction to Femme as concerned with the expense or 'maintenance' of presenting femme (in all of the social and historic manners of femme presentation)...

At the same time I hear a lot of talk on this subject of high maintenance/too girly and it feels both femme vs femme (competitive) and heteronormative--though you probably can't extract one from the other.

Thoughts?

Could you say that second paragraph a different way? I am struggling with following you here...want to make sure I am reading you correctly.

[Electrocell]

Yeah, I don't date butches or ftms that are concerned with their appearence for that reason exactly. They might just want my money.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic,
blush

If you will reread what I said ---I said I was not saying this to be nasty ----just bringing up another point of view.

[weatherboi]

Whenever i hear the term high maintenance to describe a women it is usually done with the intent to complain about them.

"She is sooo high maintenance"
"She is tooo high maintenance"
"She was so high maintenance she drained me" the guy was talking more emotionally than financially.


it puts value on women...


"i got myself a high maintenance woman. but she is worth it"
this conversation the guy was insinuating the women he was presently with was gonna cost him more money to be with than the last woman he was with.

honestly i am usually inclined to be the party pooper and say something when i hear that term used by butches, men, trans guys.

when i hear femmes use it to describe themselves i don't not feel inclined to say anything. not my place but it does make me wonder the need to create hierarchy.

[Heavenleahangel]

I hope I am saying this right and I don't offend anyone. I have always been a little confused about saying a femme is high maintenance. I thought it meant the femme was into perfect make-up, hair, nails, skin treatments, designer clothes/bags and the such daily like it was financial maintenance. I can also see how someone can be "HM" emotionally. This may be my "country-bumpkin" side showing. While I love dressing up for occasions, doing hair/nails etc, I don't do it everyday. I guess that doesn't make me high maintenance, right?

[The_Lady_Snow]

I find it odd that HM applies to Femmes, it's like Femme's are expected to look, walk around, function looking as if we just stepped off a magazine cover shoot..

Like you Heavenleahangel I on occasion "dress up" or on occasion I put on my war paint everyday, sometimes it's required others I do it cause I feel like it.

How come this particular descriptor isn't used on butches/guys/trans folk?

Why do we as Femme's continue to let others define us and set a hierarchy that should never exist certainly not from the mouths some guy/butch/trans person..


Stuff to think about...

[DapperButch]

I hope I am saying this right and I don't offend anyone. I have always been a little confused about saying a femme is high maintenance. I thought it meant the femme was into perfect make-up, hair, nails, skin treatments, designer clothes/bags and the such daily like it was financial maintenance. I can also see how someone can be "HM" emotionally. This may be my "country-bumpkin" side showing. While I love dressing up for occasions, doing hair/nails etc, I don't do it everyday. I guess that doesn't make me high maintenance, right?

I guess I have always separated out the terms/thought others separated out the terms, high femme from high maintenance.

High femme = society's definition of a very feminine woman in clothing and accessories (cost not connected to this)

I have regarded this term as being used in a negative way, a positive way, and a neutral way.

High maintenance = usually applied to women, but can also be applied to masculine people. Refers to them costing their partner a lot financially or emotionally. The person usually has a sense of entitlement regarding their "worth" or as being "deserving" of such attention and/or financial cost to others.

I have only seen this as being applied in a negative way.

------------

It really is facinating how we can assume people are working within the same definitions when communicating. That is why it is so important to define terms.

[veryfemme]

wow I learned something new about myself today, I am not high maintenance better yet I am a "high femme" and I like that way more.

:)

I guess I have always separated out the terms/thought others separated out the terms, high femme from high maintenance.

High femme = society's definition of a very feminine woman in clothing and accessories (cost not connected to this)

I have regarded this term as being used in a negative way, a positive way, and a neutral way.

High maintenance = usually applied to women, but can also be applied to masculine people. Refers to them costing their partner a lot financially or emotionally. The person usually has a sense of entitlement regarding their "worth" or as being "deserving" of such attention and/or financial cost to others.

I have only seen this as being applied in a negative way.

------------

It really is facinating how we can assume people are working within the same definitions when communicating. That is why it is so important to define terms.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I have make up on my hair did an old sweat shir pj bottoms and flip flops..

Would this be considered "high femme"?

Why not just Femme cause that's wha I am.. High to me perpetuates hierarchy. There is NO hierarchy in Femme we just are..

[Novelafemme]

i don't want to speak for apretty, but i do think i get what she is saying. when using verbiage like "high" when referencing how one identifies as a person it automatically inserts a value or a hierarchical measure of worth. "high femme" vs "femme" has the potential to connote superiority amongst the femme community which can then lead to judgement based on a heteronormative standard of beauty and self-worth. it's all pretty darned normal, but in the queer community i think many of us are working to eliminate potentially destructive binaries...especially ones of a heteronormative nature. that being said, i think most of us are evolved enough to appreciate and honor a femme who id's as a "high femme" and allow her the opportunity to move around in and explore a space that represents who and what she is...just as long as she extends that same respect to others.

for me it's all about mutual respect. i don't feel threatened by a high femme because i am comfortable as i am...which is a crazy blend of everything!

[apretty]

Could you say that second paragraph a different way? I am struggling with following you here...want to make sure I am reading you correctly.

I mean to say that there's been a lot of talk on the subject of femininity and what people call, 'high maintenance'.

There's the ways that our masculine-counterparts (generalizing, here) have said that they see femme/are attracted to femme when it's presented in heels/stockings/skirt: Which only fucks with everyone's head because that's not the reality of anyone, 24/7.

There's the ways that a femme we'll start a thread on 'high' femme and we'll get a laundry list of her heels/stockings/skirt--Or better, a photograph of a foot in a black heel, in a black stocking and a hem of a skirt.

Then, only slightly related, there's the ways that 'high-maintenance' is thrown around. We feel compelled to defend against it (or for it) like hot-potato that no one really wants to be left holding. When in reality it's another way to slap a label and grade on our ass and by that, a value. No thanks for that.

I said heternormative, earlier because I think that Queer is a thinking-community: I know, that's a bold statement but I stand by it. :)

[SweetJane]

I have never been high maintenance---ever in any sense of the word. And I'm not exactly high femme, though I can pull out all the stops for a special occasion.

But I am femme most assuredly. It really is an attitude.

I think that in years past I didn't invest in myself as I do now. And that's necessary. Anyone, but especially a femme, needs to have clothes they love and that fit and flatter, personal products (makeup, perfume, hair products---as you guys have your favorites) that make them feel confident and special, and whatever else that enhances her (or hys/his) self-esteem. Though we don't need that to produce our own personal strut or swagger, they do help.

High maintenance (financial or emotional) can impact a relationship IF the person (femme or butch/ftm/man) puts her (or hys/his) needs/wants first to the point that the other person feels used or discounted. Drama factors into this as well.

The accoutrements of a person's personal style shouldn't control a person's behavior.

Femme does not equal high maintenance. High femme shouldn't either. But society expects the cost to be high because we assume that it takes a lot of work to be attractive. Well, some people look amazing with just soap and water. It's an inner beauty that comes through.

And many of us femmes will be very frugal with the elements of our personal style, caring for our clothes, handbags, shoes, and being very economical with our makeup and scents. We know how much they cost and it is our decisions to take a part of our paychecks to replace them as we are able. I would NEVER expect someone else to pay my expenses in any fashion.

[Gemme]

I have make up on my hair did an old sweat shir pj bottoms and flip flops..

Would this be considered "high femme"?

Why not just Femme cause that's wha I am.. High to me perpetuates hierarchy. There is NO hierarchy in Femme we just are..

I would consider you beautiful, even if your hair was in curlers, you hadn't had a pedi in a year and you had a smudge of mustard on your cheek.

Here's how I see the whole hierarchy/high femme/etc thing:

There's a balance to the Universe. It's not so bad to say someone's a 'high femme', except that...in saying that....you are implying that someone else has to be a 'low femme' and who the Hell wants to have LOW in their flippin' identity???

I'm not so against labels or descriptions or adjectives of pleasure to describe members of our community, but then again, I like order and things to be nice and neat and compartmentalized.

It's when we use terms that may or may not describe someone innocently while kicking someone else, whether intentional or not. To push someone 'up', someone else is pushed 'down'.

I wish our community would adapt new descriptors. We have the power and the intelligence to do so. When that happens, I'm going to be a fucking unicorn femme. Let's see someone make THAT a bad thing.

:unicorn:

[DapperButch]

I have make up on my hair did an old sweat shir pj bottoms and flip flops..

Would this be considered "high femme"?

Why not just Femme cause that's wha I am.. High to me perpetuates hierarchy. There is NO hierarchy in Femme we just are..

I guess for me, it is how someone uses the term "high femme". If people are saying a "high femme" is the type of femme all femmes should strive to be, or is better than any other type of femme, than to me they are talking hierarchies and I do struggle with seeing that as a good thing. If they are just using it as a way to describe what kind of femme they are, then I don't see that as them defining themselves any differently than a femme who describes herself as a "sporty femme". Just a different type of femme. That is how I see the term being used in a "neutral" way....it is being used as a descriptor then, with no value judgement attached to it.

To me it reminds me of the Episcopal church. I think there is something like High and Low Episcopal churches? The "high" ones are more similar to Catholic and the "low" ones are more similar to Prostestant in their thinking/services. (Or something like that? Person an Episcopalian could explain it better). Neither is better than the other, just different.

I think the problem is the name. "High" often means better in our society.

----------------------

ETA: I am now remembering femmes saying that in the past b-f culture supported a hierarchy of high femme being something all femmes should strive to be. Is this accurate? Is that still the case today? I am curious to hear from femmes on this.

[DapperButch]

Perhaps I could have just read Gemme's post and then thanked her instead of writing a post with similar points.

(not saying she agrees with me/said the esxact same thing, I am just saying that her post would have saved me some thinking and subsequent posting time)

[blush]

If you will reread what I said ---I said I was not saying this to be nasty ----just bringing up another point of view.

Cloaking comments with "I don't mean to be nasty" and following it with something offensive is still offensive. Why would you state an opinion that is offensive and not yours? Obviously you expected it to get negative responses or you wouldn't have cloaked it with "not to be nasty" comment.

[Leigh]

Hi everyone, just came to wish you all a wonderful 2012 :)

[Quintease]

I have no interest in being High femme.

And low femme makes me think of blowjobs for some reason :innocent:

[Kaison]

I'm not sure it has ever occurred to me to date a butch or ftm I've always been into femmes.

[1ladyface]

High femme doesn't necessarily mean high maintenance. I keep myself high-femmified on my own with no assistance from my partner. I would never ask my partner to do my hair and makeup etc because I am self sufficient. And because that would be a disaster.

I really don't like the term high maintenance at all. I think it makes women question themselves and their needs which are usually perfectly reasonable. I love and respect my partners. And I'll only date someone who who loves and respects me. In my world that includes emotional maturity, communication skills and chivalry. I certainly hope that wouldn't earn me the "high maintenance" label. And I'd never expect my partner to pay my way or buy me expensive things. In fact, that would (and does) make me really uncomfortable.

My favorite Valentines day my partner and I were both underemployed and broke. I did the laundry in the morning after he'd gone to work and spelled out I love you in sweatsocks on the bed. He made a chicken and rice dinner that night and cut canned cranberry sauce rounds into hearts. We couldn't be fancy but we could still be good to each other.

[1ladyface]

And I thought the alternative to high femme was femme. Or vice versa. I've never heard anyone self-identify as low femme. Am I wrong? Are there self identified low femmes out there?

[Library_girl]

It's when we use terms that may or may not describe someone innocently while kicking someone else, whether intentional or not. To push someone 'up', someone else is pushed 'down'.

I wish our community would adapt new descriptors. We have the power and the intelligence to do so. When that happens, I'm going to be a fucking unicorn femme. Let's see someone make THAT a bad thing.

:unicorn:

This thread is really interesting to me, especially since I label myself as High Femme. First, I think a lot of us would say that we get to define our own labels. At least, that's what I like to think. The term "high femme" is an old term, as far as I know. To me, High Femme means really femme, extra femme, super femme, lots o' femme goin' on. And to me, it gives a little hint of old school, which is also part of my identity. In my mind, it DOES NOT mean "high maintenance" at all. I agree that high maintenance is a negative term that conjures up thoughts of someone, anyone of any identity, who requires a great amount of attention and care, be that emotional, financial, sexual, or all of the above. Anyone can be high maintenance, and it has nothing to do with High Femme. It's just a coincidence that the word High appears in both.

Also, in my opinion, calling someone or yourself a High Femme does not push that femme "upwards" to a higher level of femme-ness. There is no Femme Summer Camp (although that would be so fun!) or Femme Graduation, or Femme PhD. (If such a thing is ever invented, I want one!)

Moreover, I feel that High Femme does not suggest that there is a lower form of femme. It's interesting that so many people see things in those dichotomous terms. If this thing is high, there must be a low. If this thing is big, there must be a small. That's just not always the case. Sometimes something just IS.

We do have the power to adapt new descriptors, and we already have. Twenty-something years ago, when I was new to the b/f world, we didn't have words like boi or hy, or stone femme. Transgender was a new word. Gender queer didn't exist. Queer was being tossed around as the new cool word to use. Stone Butch Blues and The Femme Mystique had not been written yet. So as our culture evolves, our vocabulary evolves right along with us. It just takes a little while...... Meanwhile, I think a mutual respect of the labels we choose and don't choose to apply to ourselves would be fabulous. Just my humble and long-winded opinion. :)

[Tommi]

"Back in the day"......my father called me queer when I was 4 and it was not a good thing. He called me this because, I suppose of lableing he needed to identify his kid. The one who Gramma nicknamed Tommi~the tomboy who chased the little really really girlie girls , who probably grew up to be femme's ~probably really high femme's. He meant queer in a realllly nasty way Back in the Day, and I knew that those femme girls would always be the rage and the cherries in my bowl.

[Leigh]

Just came in to visit and say hi :)

[Gemme]

This thread is really interesting to me, especially since I label myself as High Femme. First, I think a lot of us would say that we get to define our own labels. At least, that's what I like to think. The term "high femme" is an old term, as far as I know. To me, High Femme means really femme, extra femme, super femme, lots o' femme goin' on. And to me, it gives a little hint of old school, which is also part of my identity. In my mind, it DOES NOT mean "high maintenance" at all. I agree that high maintenance is a negative term that conjures up thoughts of someone, anyone of any identity, who requires a great amount of attention and care, be that emotional, financial, sexual, or all of the above. Anyone can be high maintenance, and it has nothing to do with High Femme. It's just a coincidence that the word High appears in both.

Also, in my opinion, calling someone or yourself a High Femme does not push that femme "upwards" to a higher level of femme-ness. There is no Femme Summer Camp (although that would be so fun!) or Femme Graduation, or Femme PhD. (If such a thing is ever invented, I want one!)

Moreover, I feel that High Femme does not suggest that there is a lower form of femme. It's interesting that so many people see things in those dichotomous terms. If this thing is high, there must be a low. If this thing is big, there must be a small. That's just not always the case. Sometimes something just IS.

We do have the power to adapt new descriptors, and we already have. Twenty-something years ago, when I was new to the b/f world, we didn't have words like boi or hy, or stone femme. Transgender was a new word. Gender queer didn't exist. Queer was being tossed around as the new cool word to use. Stone Butch Blues and The Femme Mystique had not been written yet. So as our culture evolves, our vocabulary evolves right along with us. It just takes a little while...... Meanwhile, I think a mutual respect of the labels we choose and don't choose to apply to ourselves would be fabulous. Just my humble and long-winded opinion. :)

Actually, the term Stone has been around for a very, very long time. It just hasn't been acknowledged along the way. And, as Tommi mentioned, Queer has also been around for a very long time. Some of us have been fortunate enough to bring words back that were used in the past to torment and ridicule and turned them around. We've taken them back and redefined them for ourselves instead of others defining us.

Anyone can label themselves what they wish. It's not for anyone to say that someone is not the label that they proclaim.

HOWEVER

There is a hierarchy, for femmes as well as butches. Sometimes it's joked about....."Oh, she's not butch enough for me".....or, on the flip side..."She wears ten inch heels and full face make up all the time....she's too femmey foo foo for me"....but it's there, nonetheless.

Part of the issue, I think, stems from the fact that femme is equated to "womanly" things like heels and purses and frilly dresses and perfectly coiffed hair. And those femmes who are just 'as femme' as the next girl in heels and a foo foo dress, but they wear jeans and a tee and have grease under their nails, get grief because they don't 'look the part'.

It's heteronormative and it promotes a hierarchy. We are all guilty, at one time or another, of contributing to it.

[Gemme]

Just came in to visit and say hi :)

Hi and :welcome:

[1ladyface]

This isn't about the FTM/femme dynamic specifically (maybe tangentially) but I thought you folks might be interested:

Today I finally got a letter from my ex and close friend who went to jail on the 6th. He's an alcoholic (the reason we broke up and the reason he's in jail) he got his third DUI in November so he's serving 2-3 months. I've been worried sick this past fortnight. (as in literally sick: hives, vertigo, insomnia, nausea) What if he had been placed in mens jail or if he'd gotten sick or if he couldn't get his testosterone or if he didn't show up on his intake date at all?

As it turns out, he's in a separate medical unit because the judge didn't want to put him in mens jail. And he wasn't able to write me because he didn't have access to money for stamps. Ironically I had sent him stamps in the first letter I wrote him 2 weeks ago but they were sent back to me in an envelope stamped "return to sender, unacceptable jail material". Strange world. But now he's been able to access his money and buy stamps so we should be in regular contact.

I'm so relieved. I was shaking and crying with happiness as I read his letter. Thank goodness he's safe.

And in related news, he will be blogging about his experiences (through written letters I type up and submit) on http://www.originalplumbing.com/

He wrote the first post in the letter I got today and I've submitted it but it isn't up on the site just yet. I think it will be cathartic for him and hopefully his writing will be a valuable resource for the community because there's so little out there about the transmale experience in jail or prison.

I hope you and yours are all safe and cozy tonight! :olive:

[DapperButch]

And in related news, he will be blogging about his experiences (through written letters I type up and submit) on http://www.originalplumbing.com/

He wrote the first post in the letter I got today and I've submitted it but it isn't up on the site just yet. I think it will be cathartic for him and hopefully his writing will be a valuable resource for the community because there's so little out there about the transmale experience in jail or prison.



That's great. How will we know which one is his? What name will his blog be under?

[1ladyface]

He wants to keep it anonymous so it'll be under Inmate 12004 (his partial inmate number)

[~Softbutch4U~]

Hi.. I read some threads from yall. For myself... very attracted to femmes. Some butches attracted me and Im not interestin in butches. I realized some femmes attracted FTM that i didnt know cuz couple yrs ago I told 3 of my friends that I wanted to b FTM but I was so afraid that femmes, friends or my families wont accept me for what i am. I love my family very much. I should have to do it couple yrs ago. Thanks to 2 of friends from BFP (Kent and Princess). It made me realize abt FTM. I should do it years ago (D'oh).

[uniquetobeme]

I think everyone is high-maintenance at different times in their life, and different people have different needs. I probably had been guilty in the past of thinking the more femme someone was, the more high maintenance they were. I have way grown past that. I do think my thinking had to do with an issue I had with femininity. My childhood and what I gathered from society were negative images of women. I had to unlearn a lot. I wasn't comfortable embracing my feminity for a long time. Now, I see things so differently. What a journey. A lot of the process was finding peace with my childhood. My mom was a stay-at home mom, there was a lot of domestic violence and alcoholism. That contributed to my thoughts of being a woman meaning dependant and weak. I didn't want to see myself that way.
As for people not being interested in someone because they are 'too this or too that'.., it just means they aren't the person for you. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you or with them. I know, rejection sucks. I've been on both sides of that coin. I kinda believe life is mostly based on fate, with a little wiggle room. The Unoverse, or God, or our higher power brings us who and what we need at the right time. It helps me deal with those derailments in life. I just believe everything will be ok, do my best, and I don't look for a significant other, I feel it will just happen when the time is right. Just live my life, be happy with who and where I am, and maybe our paths will cross, and if not, I'm okay with that too. Please pardon typos, I'm on my iPhone.

[1ladyface]

Hi Softbutch4U, it's true, femmes who like FTMs do exist. I have to say it seems to me that a lot of FTMs do date other FTMs so it's always reassuring to me as a femme to hear that there are FTMs who still like the b/f dynamic. Cause sometimes y'all seem elusive like super sexy unicorns. :smelling-flower:

Hi.. I read some threads from yall. For myself... very attracted to femmes. Some butches attracted me and Im not interestin in butches. I realized some femmes attracted FTM that i didnt know cuz couple yrs ago I told 3 of my friends that I wanted to b FTM but I was so afraid that femmes, friends or my families wont accept me for what i am. I love my family very much. I should have to do it couple yrs ago. Thanks to 2 of friends from BFP (Kent and Princess). It made me realize abt FTM. I should do it years ago (D'oh).

[~Softbutch4U~]

Hi, 1Ladyface, I never knew FTM do date other FTM.. I think its weird but really interesting. Labor wkend in MN for mini bash.. First time I met FTM from B-F. And I looked at him and I was thinkin in my mind say.. Wow, Sure its look so much like a man. I know I met some MTFs before.(f)

[AtLast]

I think that like every other population in the world, individuals are attracted to they simply are attracted to. Yes, data (as it stands presently), shows that many FtM's have relationships with one another as well as with butches (and some butches like other butches best). some of this makes sense when biological studies are considered about gay me and testosterone levels- they are higher than heterosexual men in significant values.

However, why wouldn't some FtM's be mainly attracted to femmes, too? Personally, I don't think that there is enough sound or replicated (which leads to the actual scientific validity of most of the variables involved here to make generalizations about. I certainly know fully transitioned FtM's that are straight (desiring femmes as well as other women), gay and bisexual. I have just never been willing to make any generalizations based upon my own subjective observations and like I said, this whole area of study just doesn't have a very long history of scientific data to consider. It always feels like so many conclusions are drawn about transpeople anyway without research, reading material available, or unfortunately, based upon bigotry/bias- even within the queer community.

I know it is difficult sometimes to "get" why let's say, a butch prefers other butches (I have often just not understood this myself) just because one is a butch that is totally attracted to femmes. Same applies to FtM's sometimes. But, haven't we all been quite puzzled by human attraction at times? From not being able to figure out why 2 people are even with each other? Who knows! hell, there have been times post dating someone and wondered "what was I thinking?"

In these types of discussions, I always fear assumptions or generalizations about people that are just not based upon fact- or that are based upon stereotypes, transphobia or just plain lack of information.

[1ladyface]

"But, haven't we all been quite puzzled by human attraction at times? From not being able to figure out why 2 people are even with each other? Who knows! hell, there have been times post dating someone and wondered "what was I thinking?""

Hi Atlast,

It is mysterious. I frequently wonder why I'm so very drawn to FTM id'ed folks and not even a little bit attracted to cisdudes. But when you've had cock that's always hard and that can be whatever size, shape and color you want...why take your chances with a messy fleshy thing that could get you pregnant and give you terrible diseases?

Oh. I think I've answered my own question. Maybe (in my case) it isn't so mysterious.

[ScandalAndy]

Wow! There's a lot going on in this thread...

Personally, I struggle with my feminine presentation because I am often not recognized as a queer woman. Apparently I am too femme to be gay/queer or I am thought to be a "fag hag" (i really hate that term).

I love masculinity, and that is a major quality I am looking for in a partner. That's why I am attracted to butches and FTMs. In my geographical area, though, most trans folks are dating other trans folks or those who are reinterpreting their gender/abandoning the concept of gender altogether.

It boggles my mind that there appears to be a certain "look" that is attractive to the trans community here, and I am not it.

I'm grateful for this thread, though. I feel like I am learning a lot about other people/areas and how interpretations of masculinity and femininity are different, and affect people in different ways.

[The_Lady_Snow]

"But, haven't we all been quite puzzled by human attraction at times? From not being able to figure out why 2 people are even with each other? Who knows! hell, there have been times post dating someone and wondered "what was I thinking?""

Hi Atlast,

It is mysterious. I frequently wonder why I'm so very drawn to FTM id'ed folks and not even a little bit attracted to cisdudes. But when you've had cock that's always hard and that can be whatever size, shape and color you want...why take your chances with a messy fleshy thing that could get you pregnant and give you terrible diseases?

Oh. I think I've answered my own question. Maybe (in my case) it isn't so mysterious.


FYI 1ladyface, even in a *butch/ftm* sexual encounter one can contract sexually transmitted diseases, it's not just with biological dudes, unprotected sex of ANY kind be it gay, trans, straight, bi will pass on STD's if you aren't using protection.


We (queers) are not immune to STD's.

[1ladyface]

Thank you lady snow. I'm aware of that. I suppose i should have just said STI risk is greatly increased when you sleep with cisdudes.

[Leigh]

I just wanted to come in and say hello to everyone :)

[AtLast]

FYI 1ladyface, even in a *butch/ftm* sexual encounter one can contract sexually transmitted diseases, it's not just with biological dudes, unprotected sex of ANY kind be it gay, trans, straight, bi will pass on STD's if you aren't using protection.


We (queers) are not immune to STD's.

No, we are not! And thank you for pointing this out- let's all be safer and use common sense.. and always be prepared! LOL, ya' nevah' know what could happen, even with this old butch!

And, yes, I find what attraction can culminate in very mysterious some times.

[1ladyface]

Hi All,

I mentioned last week that my good friend and ex (a transman) will be blogging about his experiences in jail. The first entry was posted today.

originalplumbing.com

I have to say, I think of the OP community as really warm and supportive, but there have so far been some dumb assumptions and less-then-supportive comments which are upsetting to me. Not sure what my role is in this because I want Inmate 12004 to be able to respond himself but it's so hard not to jump in and just say "dammit, be nice." sigh. I guess I'm just feeling protective of him since I know he's in a vulnerable position. Anyway, I think the blog and the comment thread are worth reading.

lots of love to this warm supportive community,

a somewhat saddened ladyface

[Leigh]

Just stopped by to say hi to everyone :)

[Trey339]

My natural and compatable match is femme,, always has been,,, always will be

[FtMGuy]

I think everyone is high-maintenance at different times in their life, and different people have different needs. I probably had been guilty in the past of thinking the more femme someone was, the more high maintenance they were. I have way grown past that. I do think my thinking had to do with an issue I had with femininity. My childhood and what I gathered from society were negative images of women. I had to unlearn a lot. I wasn't comfortable embracing my feminity for a long time. Now, I see things so differently. What a journey. A lot of the process was finding peace with my childhood. My mom was a stay-at home mom, there was a lot of domestic violence and alcoholism. That contributed to my thoughts of being a woman meaning dependant and weak. I didn't want to see myself that way.
As for people not being interested in someone because they are 'too this or too that'.., it just means they aren't the person for you. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you or with them. I know, rejection sucks. I've been on both sides of that coin. I kinda believe life is mostly based on fate, with a little wiggle room. The Unoverse, or God, or our higher power brings us who and what we need at the right time. It helps me deal with those derailments in life. I just believe everything will be ok, do my best, and I don't look for a significant other, I feel it will just happen when the time is right. Just live my life, be happy with who and where I am, and maybe our paths will cross, and if not, I'm okay with that too. Please pardon typos, I'm on my iPhone.

I agree with what you have posted, I know with all the surgeries I have had in the last 2 years I have been very high maintenance!!! to me it is not about femmes and or money, it is more a state of mind, high maintenance is something I would say maybe about anyone that drains the life or energy or money sometimes out of someone else and like I said i know in the past I could be seen to be high maintenance.
Surgeries all finished so right back to normal maintenance!
I do like this thread, I love Femmes and am extremely attracted to Femmes,
Queer Femmes, High Femmes
Femmes in a tshirt and jeans, no makeup ,yup femmes!!
there is nothing sexier then a femme in a mens suit!

[Leigh]

Just came to say hi to everyone here, I hope your all having a good Monday so far :)

[Darbonaire]

This guy has ALWAYS been attracted to femmes & always will be. I like all kinds of folks but, for sexual attraction, dating, marriage.....<never again...lol>.....it's femme for me. I'd like to meet some other guys for chatting & sharing experiences....but just as friends.

[Jaques]

Ive always been attracted to feminine women, I admire butches/transguys/men for their masculinity & individual qualities but am never attracted to them sexually. However i once went out with a femme who said she loved the "male" thing about me but it wouldnt matter to her whether i was butch/femme/whatever, she liked me for who i am - whilst that was lovely and so was she, being on the verge of transitioning then, it DID matter to me. I couldnt deal with her seeing me as anything but male. Im attracted to women but not AS another woman..........:blink:

[Leigh]

I appreciate and adore FTM guys for many reasons, and I know that I'm not alone :)

[LadyRieinAL]

I never thought I'd find myself in a place like this again - ten years ago I fell in love with a wonderful man, a gentleman, a fabulous lover (the best ever) male or female - I was married to a bio-male (sorry if the terms I use are not correct and I don't mind being corrected) for five years - the next 22 I spent with a butch, and for a few short years I had two relationships with with one butch and one person who ID as transman and preferred female pronouns because it made life easier for hym- and then I met my first FTM - to I liked him, I liked him a lot, but I wasn't sure that I could allow myself to fall in love with him - he made me see and feel like I was really home when I was in his arms - our transition was an amazing one - he was male - and he snagged me - he swept me off my feet - he spanked my buttocks and made me love it <wink> his level of intelligence and his sense of humor was off the charts and I thought this was the grandest relationship there was ever created on earth - and time pivoted - and then as life does, we changed for so many different reasons - and eventually it was time for both of us to move on - he moved several states away - and I couldn't.
I'm telling you, mark my words, if one of you femmes out there has the chance to meet him - when you are introduced to him, you will find out exactly what I'm talking about.
Because of him, I am hoping that in my new journey of being single I will be lead into the arms of an FTM who wants to co-create a new journey in joy and love - and maybe it will be forever - a femme can dream.

[Darbonaire]

I never thought I'd find myself in a place like this again - ten years ago I fell in love with a wonderful man, a gentleman, a fabulous lover (the best ever) male or female - I was married to a bio-male (sorry if the terms I use are not correct and I don't mind being corrected) for five years - the next 22 I spent with a butch, and for a few short years I had two relationships with with one butch and one person who ID as transman and preferred female pronouns because it made life easier for hym- and then I met my first FTM - to I liked him, I liked him a lot, but I wasn't sure that I could allow myself to fall in love with him - he made me see and feel like I was really home when I was in his arms - our transition was an amazing one - he was male - and he snagged me - he swept me off my feet - he spanked my buttocks and made me love it <wink> his level of intelligence and his sense of humor was off the charts and I thought this was the grandest relationship there was ever created on earth - and time pivoted - and then as life does, we changed for so many different reasons - and eventually it was time for both of us to move on - he moved several states away - and I couldn't.
I'm telling you, mark my words, if one of you femmes out there has the chance to meet him - when you are introduced to him, you will find out exactly what I'm talking about.
Because of him, I am hoping that in my new journey of being single I will be lead into the arms of an FTM who wants to co-create a new journey in joy and love - and maybe it will be forever - a femme can dream.

I still love you......I miss you....& I would love "us" again.......thank you for sharing this ! ***

[Nadeest]

The first person that I went out with, after I started transition was an FTM. He was so gentle and caring with me that it was amazing. I was very terrified when it came to sex, and he let me proceed at my own pace, to find out what worked for me, now that I had begun transition. Everything had changed for me, and he understood that. Since then, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for FTM's and would date them a lot quicker then I would a cis-male.

[rande]

I am an FTM/Stone....if one has to be in a box that's where I'd stand.
Personally I am highly attracted to the Femme energy, but that's just me.

We're all entitled to love who we want to love for crying out loud. The trick is to stop lying to ourselves, get out there on that dance floor and live.

Gender is a fluid thing...there are genders within genders, if you want to split hairs. To say one thing is wrong is to not understand the very nature of what gender identification and expression are all about.

It's highly personal...very individualistic....customized, if you will, to each person.

Just because I am deeply attracted to Femmes doesn't mean that's the only way for others to live. Heck no.

Let's celebrate love, not limits.

Great forum, great Planet. Thanks for being here!

[morningstar55]

im single..... i never dated someone whom is FTM..
have had relationships and some dates whom id as stone..
im not even sure if Im even femme enough for some.. i mean i am a lady/girl/femme even though my job is not very lady like.. but i do see a lot of very femine women out there whom drive them big rigs.
im just a girl next door kinda girl. :)
some say i just hadnt met the right one yet......... well crap im 57 already.
im not holding my breath. i am lonely .. but i know im not desperate either.
maybe im doing something wrong.
anyways............. this is a interesting thread.
will subscribe........ annnnd guess i need to get to work...
have a awsome day/ weekend , everyone.

[morningstar55]

good morning FATF dwellers and peekers

i been reading some postings here yesterday and well just can not understand this............
2 people...... doesnt matter if your str8/ftm/mtf/butch femme or what ever.
when a couple has so much love for each other... why can not they make it work???
doesnt love conquer all??? it is soo hard to find true love , a deep love and when you do find it and its mutual , stick with it... its like that song.. if you see a chance take it.. find romance embrace it?? think thats how it goees.. lol its a old Steve Winwood song... heh

Darbonaire n LadyRieinAL life is way way to short.... and in our age group, its soo soo very hard to find someone ... must be something to work out to keep ya'll together. I hate seeing such loving couples fall apart when it could of been prevented. I guess i am a strong believer in working on a relationship when its worth saving.
ya know grandma n grandpa didnt get to there 50th wedding anniversary on a bed of roses, im sure there were some thorns somewhere along the way.
anyways. just my thoughts this morning.... ha and i havnt had my coffee yet.. lol

im heading to Ithaca and then to detroit today.
have a great day everyone. :)

[Leigh]

Just came in to say good morning to everyone :)

[Darbonaire]

Treated myself to a wonderful massage today....wow, maybe I should date a massage therapist?.....LOL......I'm trying my best to stay positive, fill my days with new friends & new experiences.....thank God for my cat......lol......she's my baby girl & has gotten me through a LOT !

I just wanted to stop in & say hello & I wish everyone a super evening & a wonderful tomorrow !

Jonathan

[Teddybear]

Treated myself to a wonderful massage today....wow, maybe I should date a massage therapist?.....LOL......I'm trying my best to stay positive, fill my days with new friends & new experiences.....thank God for my cat......lol......she's my baby girl & has gotten me through a LOT !

I just wanted to stop in & say hello & I wish everyone a super evening & a wonderful tomorrow !

Jonathan


my cat has gotten me through a lot also now if i could get him to stop snoring at nite


hello to all the ladies and gents on the thread

[Quintease]

My husband was always into feminine, straight, bi or gay. It makes no difference to him who I fancy, provided he's quite high on the list.

I think ten years back girls like me were just too lesbian to date FTM's, whereas now we're all part of the same community. For the boys, I guess it's a lot safer dating a lesbian once you look like a man. For the girls, I guess we get the authentically queer experience, with someone who's simultaneously breaking as well as maintaining binaries ... or perhaps that's just my take on it all.

It did surprise me that I could fancy the pants off a man, it didn't surprise him that he could fancy me. He led me astray, clearly!

[Leigh]

Just came in to spread my love around for all the amazing guys here :)

[TenderKnight]

Ohhh.. Hello all :) I'm FTM and am attracted to femmes.. I guess I might belong in this thread :p *waves to everyone*

[Leigh]

Ohhh.. Hello all :) I'm FTM and am attracted to femmes.. I guess I might belong in this thread :p *waves to everyone*


lol glad you could join us, make yourself at home :D

[TenderKnight]

I have noticed that many of FTM friends date primarily butch women or FTM and I wanted to know how many FTMs are attracted to femme women? Is there a reason why you are attracted to femmes and are you also attracted to butch women or other FTM as well?

Guess I could start off with responding to the original poster :p

I consider myself to be pansexual.. Meaning that I am attracted to the person rather then thier gender.. that being said.. For me personally, I tend to have fun and play with guys and settle down and date women.. I am also poly, so this has worked well for me in my personal life :) Currently I am "single" meaning that I do have some very close intimate friends and playmates, but I am not dating anyone nor am I in a relationship with anyone..

That is just my thoughts on the original post :)

[TenderKnight]

lol glad you could join us, make yourself at home :D

Well thank you :)

[Leigh]

Well thank you :)

*smiles* Your very welcome :)

[rande]

Don't give up!
You're plenty feminine! Don't you dare think otherwise!
Driving a truck, far out! Nothing wrong with that!
Hell! Turns me right the heck on!

I like it when people are who they want to be, regardless of stereotyping and labeling.
There is someone out there for you. Hang in there.
Love's a funny thing, it sneaks up on you lots of times right after you've given up...then WHAMMO!

So don't worry...love is coming.
You don't have to change a thing...just be there for it.

You're perfect, just the way you are.

[Julien]

I thought I would peek around the curtain and say hello. :bath:I am looking for a welcoming place to hang my hat. Good evening one and all.:formalbow:

[Leigh]

Don't give up!
You're plenty feminine! Don't you dare think otherwise!
Driving a truck, far out! Nothing wrong with that!
Hell! Turns me right the heck on!

I like it when people are who they want to be, regardless of stereotyping and labeling.
There is someone out there for you. Hang in there.
Love's a funny thing, it sneaks up on you lots of times right after you've given up...then WHAMMO!

So don't worry...love is coming.
You don't have to change a thing...just be there for it.

You're perfect, just the way you are.

Sometimes we need to be reminded of these things and I thank you for posting this for us :)

I thought I would peek around the curtain and say hello. :bath:I am looking for a welcoming place to hang my hat. Good evening one and all.:formalbow:

Welcome to the thread Julien, make yourself at home ~ visit anytime you like :)

[Kent]

Just a little bump...

[Bad_boi]

Femmes are amazing.

[SoberBoi]

I am very new in transition (about 9 months T)...therefore I still have a lot of the "how do they look at me" paranoia that newbies suffer from.

I avoid lesbians and straight females now because I am pre-op and have innate fears that they "won't get it" and mis-gender me.

The more I transition and get surgery, I will probably get over it.

I asked the support staff if they could change my userid to SoberGuy or at least SoberBoy because I feel uncomfortable dysphorically with my old member name. :(

[Nadeest]

First off, as someone that has been in transition for a while now, give things time, please. Certainly you are going to be misgendered from time to time. That sort of thing happens, but it will tend to happen less and less as time goes on, in my experience.

Secondly, if you are attracted to femmes, why avoid us? If you find someone that you like, let her know what is going on. If she is willing to be a part of your life, she will make an effort to understand, and figure things out.

I have found, over the years, that if you don't insist on what your gender is, sooner or later, as people get to know you, they will figure it out. Just give them time, and if they are not prejudiced, they will come to accept you as a male.

Hang in there! I know that it gets rough, especially at the start of transition.

[DapperButch]

I am very new in transition (about 9 months T)...therefore I still have a lot of the "how do they look at me" paranoia that newbies suffer from.

I avoid lesbians and straight females now because I am pre-op and have innate fears that they "won't get it" and mis-gender me.

The more I transition and get surgery, I will probably get over it.

I asked the support staff if they could change my userid to SoberGuy or at least SoberBoy because I feel uncomfortable dysphorically with my old member name. :(

I didn't see your request for a name change in the name change thread. You will probably get a quicker response there than PM.

http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=519&page=38

[theoddz]

Hey there guy, and welcome to our community!! :clap:

I couldn't resist sticking my 2 cents worth in here about "how do they look at me". I began transition almost 6 years ago and, believe it or not, things are still in transition for me, on some levels. I think it is a continuing process for a lot of us, particularly me, as I was in my mid 40's when I started T and had my top surgery. I'd been living in a "stranger's" skin all my life, up until then, and it's taken all this time to .....well..... let my body change with the T (which has energizing and antidepressant properties, btw), have the surgery, get the name changed legally, and then finally, the gender marker on the (Florida, of ALL places) birth certificate. That, alone, takes time.

The other thing I want to say to you is that these physical changes are going to take time on quite a few levels, and that is probably a good thing.....now that I'm looking at a lot of what I went through, in retrospect. You have to understand something about "other people", and this is something that my father (also my mentor and friend) told me when I asked him about what other people would think of me. He told me that worrying about what other people thought, or would think, about things in my life, including this transition, was way off base. He said that most all people in life don't worry about others in the sense that we think they do. They're worried about their own problems. It'd surprise you to find out just how little other people worry about the things you do, unless it directly affects them, and that is a whooooole lot less than you think!!!! If you think about it right now, at this second, the proof of that fact is right in front of you. YOU are the one worried about it. Let me tell you something I found out by going through this myself........Other people are going to be as comfortable with you as you are with yourself. The discomfort you might be feeling right now is what we all go through. Things like your body issues and even your self-confidence are going to evolve very nicely and you're going to be very pleased with this when you come out on the other side of the tunnel. It's a process, which means that it goes step by (sometimes painfully slow) step. But remember......XY males don't get through puberty overnight, either, and this is what you're going through. It's a second puberty, but now you're supposed to be "older and wiser".

Now, for the Femme question. As you have seen from the replies you've gotten in this thread, there ARE quite a few of these lovely Ladies who just adore us transguys!!! I don't think you're going to ever have to worry about finding a partner/girlfriend/wife, even after you transition. I want to say something else here, however, and please, just take it into consideration. I'm not trying to tell you what to think, or even how to think. I just want to give you something to roll around in your mind. Some guys feel this way. I did. Others feel differently. I don't know how you'll feel about it, so take it for what it's worth.

Transition can be an extreme "ME space". It can be frustrating, exhilarating, freeing, depressing, liberating, joyful and sometimes very, very painful. Most of your emotional and mental energy is going to have to be directed inward. This is as it should be!!! You're going to have to figure out who you are. Simple statement, eh?? It's what I said. Who. You. Are. Do you have any idea, at this moment in time, what kind of man you are inside?? Do you know what kind of man you need to be in order to find peace in yourself?? Do know how far you want to take your body through transition?? That can change, you know. Intense stuff, eh?? Well, a relationship takes work, too. It takes both people working at it, equally hard. She's going to require your attentions and you're going to need her to push some of that aside while you work on you. Can you do both at the same time?? Most can't, you know, and it's a known statistic that many, if not most, relationships don't survive transition. She may have to do a transition of her own, too, you know, because this is going to affect her. There are all kinds of Ladies/Femmes/other masculine and feminine ID's here who just love, love LOVE us transguys and have had successful relationships before with some of us, sometimes in all phases of transition. I, myself, have a wonderful Lady who has been by my side through the entire process, but she's also had "prior experience" and kinda knew what she was in for!!! So far, we're hanging in there and I think the roughest part is over and we're on the easy side of that hill now. So, the question is.....do you bring someone down this rocky, perilous road with you, or do you wait until you have traveled most of that road yourself, first?? Something to think about, my friend.

Okay, so you can tell me that this is none of my business, and it's not, really. Transition is different for all of us and only you know what your life is like now, and what you may be dealing with later. I'm just sticking my nose in here and giving you some rather personal points to ponder. That's all it is. There are many, many good women here, and in the world, who will love and accept you for exactly who you are. That'll never be the problem. The biggest thing you need to do now is to turn your mind and emotions inward and work on yourself and getting through this. If you're no good for yourself, then you won't be good for anyone else, either.

You have a community of support and acceptance here, Guy. Sometimes we're going to tell you what you don't want to hear, but we all support you, and we understand. You might also be interested in some of the threads in the "Trans Zone". There's a ton of information and posts there about transition and other issues that affect us transfolk. Good luck to you and feel free to drop me a PM anytime.

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[alphadaddy]

I really couldnt tell you but I have been turned away for being too girly and its hard and I hate it
Is there really such a thing...i can't even imagine

[FtMGuy]

Hi Softbutch4U, it's true, femmes who like FTMs do exist. I have to say it seems to me that a lot of FTMs do date other FTMs so it's always reassuring to me as a femme to hear that there are FTMs who still like the b/f dynamic. Cause sometimes y'all seem elusive like super sexy unicorns. :smelling-flower:

I love it!! super sexy unicorns!!
I am searching high and low for the perfect femme for me! I am not quite ready for a relationship yet but dating would be nice, just dont seem to be any femmes around where I live that date a guy like me but it could happen, BFP Reunion here I come!!

[Nadeest]

"...I began transition almost 6 years ago and, believe it or not, things are still in transition for me, on some levels. I think it is a continuing process for a lot of us, particularly me, as I was in my mid 40's when I started T and had my top surgery...." theodzz


I think theodzz is right. We don't ever really finish transitioning, in a lot of ways. Mind you, our second puberty takes a lot less time to go thru, mentally, then our first one, but still. We just don't, and probably never will have the same amount of emotional and social experience that other people of our age and gender have. Mind you, we grow up fast, but still, I don't think that we ever fully grow up. We are just starting from too far behind to be able to catch up fully, especially those of us who start transition in our later years.

[ManOMan]

For Me
I'm attracted to the feminine end of the spectrum. Please note I did not say female. I have found some ftm and 'cis' males to be very attractive. They are ones that are of the feminine persuasion, but I haven't actually been with a 'male' person in many, many, many years (oy).

I am also one of those guys that can't tell when a woman is hitting on me, I've been with female friends that have told me that women were flirting with me and I've been completely clueless. (Sigh)

For the 'old fashion' femmes here that don't want to make the first move: please don't assume that just because I haven't hit on you that it's because I don't like you. It's way more likely that I'm shy and clueless, BUT once I get the hint, it's on like donkey kong!

[Duchess]

Just dropping by to say hi. (f)

[Tony]

Bumpin' the thread

[Tony]

I never thought I'd find myself in a place like this again - ten years ago I fell in love with a wonderful man, a gentleman, a fabulous lover (the best ever) male or female - I was married to a bio-male (sorry if the terms I use are not correct and I don't mind being corrected) for five years - the next 22 I spent with a butch, and for a few short years I had two relationships with with one butch and one person who ID as transman and preferred female pronouns because it made life easier for hym- and then I met my first FTM - to I liked him, I liked him a lot, but I wasn't sure that I could allow myself to fall in love with him - he made me see and feel like I was really home when I was in his arms - our transition was an amazing one - he was male - and he snagged me - he swept me off my feet - he spanked my buttocks and made me love it <wink> his level of intelligence and his sense of humor was off the charts and I thought this was the grandest relationship there was ever created on earth - and time pivoted - and then as life does, we changed for so many different reasons - and eventually it was time for both of us to move on - he moved several states away - and I couldn't.
I'm telling you, mark my words, if one of you femmes out there has the chance to meet him - when you are introduced to him, you will find out exactly what I'm talking about.
Because of him, I am hoping that in my new journey of being single I will be lead into the arms of an FTM who wants to co-create a new journey in joy and love - and maybe it will be forever - a femme can dream.

This was so beautifully stated. Your emotions jumped off the page. Sounds like you were both very lucky to have found each other. I hope you find that again. Thanks for baring your heart/soul/emotions with that experience.

[Duchess]

I really couldnt tell you but I have been turned away for being too girly and its hard and I hate it

I can totally relate!!:|

[Leigh]

Just came in to say hi to everyone :)

[morningstar55]

For Me
I'm attracted to the feminine end of the spectrum. Please note I did not say female. I have found some ftm and 'cis' males to be very attractive. They are ones that are of the feminine persuasion, but I haven't actually been with a 'male' person in many, many, many years (oy).

I am also one of those guys that can't tell when a woman is hitting on me, I've been with female friends that have told me that women were flirting with me and I've been completely clueless. (Sigh)

For the 'old fashion' femmes here that don't want to make the first move: please don't assume that just because I haven't hit on you that it's because I don't like you. It's way more likely that I'm shy and clueless, BUT once I get the hint, it's on like donkey kong!


Hmmm ..... well I think u have a cute banana.. :)

[Hominid]

Hello All -

New guy here - into "femmes" with a broad definition of what that means. Women who identify as women, girly, tomboyish - more important is intelligence, living a life of meaning, good spelling ("your" when one means "you're" is driving me batshit) and I like trim to curvy women. I also am not so into the "princess" thing, although my relationships always end up being Daddy/girl on some level, and I usually end up pussy whipped if I am well-loved.

Nice to read through the posts and "meet" everyone.

[Leigh]

Welcome to the Planet Hominid, feel free to say hi sometime :)

[GraffitiBoi]

Just dropping in to say hi and bump this thread.

I love me some Femmes!

[Jaques]

Just dropping in to say hi and bump this thread.

I love me some Femmes!

...........Hi GB, thread bumped - i have always loved feminine women, gay, straight, wotever............i often admire men/butches/transguys but never attracted to them sexually. However, i do know that many transguys are gay but then as we have said many times, sexuality and gender are two different things

[Bèsame*]

Good morning! And happy summer to all the guys!
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m44lfdjd9f1r1ig5do1_500.jpg

[ScandalAndy]

Autumn is fast approaching!! This femme is definitely looking forward to that time of year when the masculine folks get all outdoorsy with jeans and sweaters.

I just wanted to say that this thread has done me a world of good today. Thank you all for restoring my faith that there are still some folks who are genuinely interested in femmes as romantic partners.

[Leigh]

Thought I'd come in and say hi :)

[Sheridan]

I am attractive to femmes, butches, and other transgender men. I swing both ways. :flyingmonkey:

[JDeere]

Saying howdy. Ftm interested in femmes.

[pumpndude]

OK, I'm a trans-guy that is only attracted to femme women.
all that I can say is it must be in my DNA....
I'm not attracted at all to butches, too manly for me in whatever way....

[pumpndude]

Hi to all, For me I'm only attracted to femme women...I don't know why, I just say it must be in my DNA...:cigar2:

They look so sexy and are so hot.. :hangloose:

[Gothy]

I have also experienced the "youre too femme" treatment... and it has left me scratching my head. It also seems that guys are really intimidated by me and my ultra femmeness, either that, or all the glitter.

But seriously... I'm approachable! Talk to me! I'm starting to get a complex.

[Ratcrazy]

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I am ONLY attracted to feminine women. The "hairnailsmakeup" thing ropes me every time. A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman.

[Ratcrazy]

I have also experienced the "youre too femme" treatment... and it has left me scratching my head. It also seems that guys are really intimidated by me and my ultra femmeness, either that, or all the glitter.

But seriously... I'm approachable! Talk to me! I'm starting to get a complex.
"Too femme"??? No such a thing!

[Borneheld]

I can't speak for anyone but myself. I am ONLY attracted to feminine women. The "hairnailsmakeup" thing ropes me every time. A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman.

I with you on this brother!

I see beauty beyond the surface as well, intellect, humor, drive, independence all play a role in what makes a feminine woman beautiful and attractive to me.