Femme Invisibility?

[Christy51274]

I know this topic has probably been brought up time and time again, but, please, share with me ways how not to be invisible!


I've slapped a pride sticker on my car... -- CHECK √

I tell all my friends and family that I'm a lesbian... -- CHECK √

Go to gay bars/events -- CHECK √


Straight people think I'm straight. Gay people think I'm straight. What more can I possibly do besides tattoo on my forehead that I am, indeed, part of the "family"?

It's so frustrating! I'd just like to hear how other femmes deal with this issue.

Gracias,
A Hopeless Femme
:blueheels:



http://www.claytons-tshirts.co.uk/images/products/preview/sorry%20boys%20i%20like%20pussy%20-%20ladi.jpg

[LaneyDoll]

I deal with this all the time. I used to go to alt bars and the ONLY time I ever left with a number was when a gay guy gave it to me.

~hits head on desk~

All of my friends tell me that I am intimidating so that, combined with femme invisibility, really made it hard to meet anyone. Talk about frustrating!

I never learned any "solutions" so I am looking forward to the replies posted.

:sparklyheart:

[Hollylane]

I have had this problem so often, that at one point, I considered getting a tattoo on the back of my neck that looked like a clothing label with the word "Femme". Just because I got so tired of the conversation.

[CherylNYC]

It helps to ride a motorcycle. Then you can carry the rainbow sticker bedecked helmet around with you. It's my dyke badge.

[Miss_J]

Ok, So I'm at the store yesterday shopping for a new dress.. (bought two!) I also had the added/welcome frustration of spying a very very hot butch doing something in the store that resembled putting up racks.. I don't know about you but I'm not going to walk up to someone and say hey sexy Im into what you've got to offer, wanna play?

What do we do?? how can we help our counterparts distinguish us in the crowd of soccer moms, dazzling beauties who are strickly dickly and well the curious janes who just wanna look and wouldnt know how to touch even with a manual attached?

I have this tattoo on the back of my shoulder its a triangle of stone with the pride colors in the center radiating out like a pool of color, so it is my only distinquising mark of "Family" I mean honestly Ladies I get it..but not enough of it! And living in Michigan means... cold weather and I'm not baring shoulders for months on end.


Flirting has its thrills but damn.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

If I had a pound for every person that’s said I’m too straight acting to be gay, I’d be a millionaire! LOL!

I’ve even been told a few times that I’m ‘too nice a person’ to be gay! …What??? Once, I got so fed up with these statements that I said if the woman really wanted proof that I’m gay, then she might want to date me a while, then should things go well, the proof would be in the love making!

It's not the most elegant comeback I’ve said, but, she got the message, lol!

[Medusa]

I used to constantly wear a little rainbow-colored necklace with the word "Femme" in script. It helped a lot :)

[girl_dee]

Carry one of these in your purse...


http://www.freewebs.com/thecommonthread/2x4s.jpg

[1QuirkyKiwi]

Carry one of these in your purse...


http://www.freewebs.com/thecommonthread/2x4s.jpg

I'd need to take the kitchen sink out, first! LOL!

[Christy51274]

Carry one of these in your purse...


http://www.freewebs.com/thecommonthread/2x4s.jpg
Cajun Dee...you made my day with that pic. LMAOOOOOO! My purse is probably large enough to carry those around too! :D

[Christy51274]

I'm a bit shy, so approaching a butch is out of the question for me (unless I've had a few shots of vodka, that is). I have to admit, I'm excellent when it comes to looking "hetero". I've lived this way most of my life, until I finally realized that I wasn't.

I'm considering getting a little tattoo, but have no idea where. I'm thinking maybe my wrist. Could be covered up by my watch when need be.

Any suggestions on tattoos?

:deepthoughts:

Thanks ladies for your responses.

[Novelafemme]

I used to constantly wear a little rainbow-colored necklace with the word "Femme" in script. It helped a lot :)

I love this :)

I'm not trying to get noticed by anyone, but when I see other family members I try to go out of my way to make eye contact and smile, especially if I'm with my partner. Although, I do that with most everyone anyway, so ;)

[princessbelle]

I do remember, in my single days, how this would frustrate me to no end!!!!!

Trying to catch their eyes so you could smile, the whole "I AM FEMME WHY CAN'T YOU SEE ME" feeling. It really is hard to get butches/trans/FtMs attention out there in the real world.

I went through a drive through yesterday and there was the cutest little baby butch at the window. OMG she was probably 17 or so. I SOOOOOOOOO bad wanted to say to her...

"I'm family. Are you ok? Is your family accepting? Do you need a Momma to talk to or just a friend?"

Someone should come up with something we can say and not just the rainbow thingy cause heck my granny used to have a rainbow wind catcher. That's not enough. We need a code word or something so that butches or any part of our family hears it and thinks...oh cool "she's" one of us.

Or maybe a secret handshake.

Something!!!

[Christy51274]

I mostly wear black and neutral colors and I'm not into bright colors, really. Can't imagine myself wearing a rainbow. Cool for others, but not my thing. Oh well, maybe I'll get a silver double Venus symbol charm and wear the hell out of it. Guess, I can't go wrong with that. LOLL.

[girl_dee]

i think that is the thing that most don't get about Femme Invisibility. i am not about trying to catch a butch, it's about outing yourself as being family!

[Quintease]

I coped really well, but then I never expected to be acknowledged in the street.

I :

Live in gay areas

Used to have stickers on my car

Didn't wear earrings or too much colour

Didn't wear much jewellery at all

Didn't hang out with gay men or straight women in gay places

Didn't put pretty things in my hair

Didn't giggle unless I was drunk

Didn't humor straight men at. all.

Would complain to my friends about invisibility so they'd feel obliged to step in if someone misidentified me

Would dress down (slightly) or drag (queen) up when going to a gay venue or anywhere with majority gay.

It sounds sucky but it wasn't for me. It took away from a heteronormative appearance, so lesbians would pick up that I wasn't straight and men would think twice before hitting on me.

Now that I'm married and not worried about pulling women, I've noticed a difference. My style has become more tomboyish, yet lesbians are starting to ID me as straight. I'm convinced this is because I'm starting to break all of my own rules.

[Gemme]

I deal with this all the time. I used to go to alt bars and the ONLY time I ever left with a number was when a gay guy gave it to me.

~hits head on desk~

All of my friends tell me that I am intimidating so that, combined with femme invisibility, really made it hard to meet anyone. Talk about frustrating!

I never learned any "solutions" so I am looking forward to the replies posted.

:sparklyheart:

I have had this problem so often, that at one point, I considered getting a tattoo on the back of my neck that looked like a clothing label with the word "Femme". Just because I got so tired of the conversation.

I used to constantly wear a little rainbow-colored necklace with the word "Femme" in script. It helped a lot :)

I've thought about getting a necklace (silver only for me, please) that had Femme or FEMME in script but still legible. It's about the only obvious outward sign I would emit I think.

The only people I care about feeling invisible to are butches and transguys (my sisters see me more easily than they do), but I would still have to get close enough to them without sending out 'creepy girl sneaking up on me' vibes out before they could read it.

:blink:

[Gemme]

i think that is the thing that most don't get about Femme Invisibility. i am not about trying to catch a butch, it's about outing yourself as being family!

This is very true but I have noticed, for me, a distinct difference between the sister and the brother camp in terms of who notices me and recognizes me and who does not.

Maybe I should carry one of those boards.....:thinking:

[girl_dee]

http://izaabel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/10.jpg



Replace "DUDE" with "FEMME"

[princessbelle]

http://izaabel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/10.jpg



Replace "DUDE" with "FEMME"

Not bad but i have bangs. :fastdraq:

[girl_dee]

Not bad but i have bangs. :fastdraq:

ohhhh we can fix that!

[girl_dee]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_On6waCFdLKM/SdnG_FZCMEI/AAAAAAAADUc/-aYzaPpKZcM/s400/tattoo_0000556.jpg


"FEMME" would fit very nicely there!

[1QuirkyKiwi]

http://izaabel.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/10.jpg



Replace "DUDE" with "FEMME"

Is the Shredded Wheat-Comb over Hair style that goes with compulsory? :|

[Gemme]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_On6waCFdLKM/SdnG_FZCMEI/AAAAAAAADUc/-aYzaPpKZcM/s400/tattoo_0000556.jpg


"FEMME" would fit very nicely there!

In the grill or on the chin???

:blink:

[girl_dee]

In the grill or on the chin???

:blink:

OK....... :|

[Christy51274]

Princessbelle: I soooo agree with you. Thanks for posting!

[Christy51274]

Cajun_Dee, you're a riot! LOLLL

[CherylNYC]

I'm very much a tomboy, and not a high femme at all, except when I dress up for dates and events. I was at a leather event sharing a hotel room with a butch couple who know me as a femme lesbian, and their friend needed a place to stay for the last day of the event. She was a nice butch with some serious health issues, who was living on a shoestring budget, and not young.

Of course she was welcome to stay in the room at no charge since we three had already budgeted and paid. I made her a completely chaste offer of the other half of my queen hotel bed. She said, very strongly, that she preferred to sleep on the floor. She woke up at 4 AM with a serious asthma attack from sleeping on the floor. I demanded that she get up off the floor and sleep on the other side of my bed, threatening that I would sleep on the floor unless she got off it. Thankfully, that did the trick, and she spent a few restful hours in a proper bed.

I later asked my roommates what that was about. They had told the asthmatic butch that I was a big old dyke, but she had insisted that she was NOT going to sleep in a bed with a straight woman! She was quite sure of it. I HAD to be straight. WTF?

[Martina]

Butch femme folk think i am too andro to be femme. Yet regular lesbians think i am straight.

By the time i have given an andro lesbian enough significant looks for her to get that i am also a dyke, she thinks i am coming on to her.

Oh joy.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I went to lunch with the managing FDs wife and I mentioned about being an invisible Femme (I explained what it meant). She said to me that when we first met when I was a student, she would never have guessed I was gay. She saw me almost like a Porcelain Doll; as innocent! She also admitted that although she’d heard whispers that I was gay, her experiences of gay women were Andro and Butch, so she believed them to be vicious rumours against me because I was well liked there.

Fast forward several years to now, having worked closely with everyone, again, she has observed that when I’m eyeing up a Butch, I’m not obvious about it…..it’s subtle. What she has also observed is that, Boi’s, soft Butch’s, Andro’s and other Femmes pick up on my ‘signals’. She still sees me as a Porcelain Doll!

This explains why I get a lot of interest from other Femmes. No offence is intended towards Butch’s when I say this; the ‘signals’ that I send out and maybe many of you Femmes who are seen as straight are far too subtle for them to pick up! It seems we need the 4x4s that Cajun dee has suggested! LOL!

There’s a new business venture; Cajun dee’s Butch Attention Grabbers! LOL!

[UofMfan]

I used to constantly wear a little rainbow-colored necklace with the word "Femme" in script. It helped a lot :)


My ex had a silver necklace made with the word Femme in script. Not only was it beautiful, it sent a clear message.

She too got tired of being "invisible".

[genghisfawn]

If I wore a "femme" necklace in my city, two things would happen...

1) I'd get too many nosey sorts asking what it meant, and it's not really something I'm keen to discuss with those not in the know;
2) Even if a butch saw it, they're not looking for femmes! :)

I'm present in my local community, and I've been present and active for many years. I know many people, and people do know... unless they're younger, just out or visiting, and then they think I'm the straight girl at the gay bar!

As for visibility... I struggle with how to do it, or whether I really want it. Saskatoon is a pretty decent place, where if people don't approve of queerness, at least (among adults) they don't waste their breath or energy trying to hurt you.

Besides... whenever I see a cute butch, I just give 'em the old eye-sex treatment. You know the one. Sultry eye contact, break away, see if they're still looking, telepathically communicate the desire for a drink and conversation, etc. When it works, it works!

[starryeyes]

I don't know what the solution is? I experience everything you and everyone else has talked about, but I still have no solution. I am always going to be a high femme. I am always going to look "straight". It is just part of the femme package, I guess. When I did not have a girlfriend, it was really difficult meeting people as well. I am super shy. The only time I notice butches checking me out is when I am with another butch (go figure). Oh well. Good luck on your journey femme sistah!

:-D

[Quintease]

I later asked my roommates what that was about. They had told the asthmatic butch that I was a big old dyke, but she had insisted that she was NOT going to sleep in a bed with a straight woman! She was quite sure of it. I HAD to be straight. WTF?

What a dick, I would have left her on the floor.

I've had boyish gay women insist I must be bisexual or straight before, interestingly they were nearly always single.. Perhaps a lack of social skills?

[Quintease]

This explains why I get a lot of interest from other Femmes. No offence is intended towards Butch’s when I say this; the ‘signals’ that I send out and maybe many of you Femmes who are seen as straight are far too subtle for them to pick up!


I'm not subtle at. all. when I like someone. Trust me, it's worthwhile being forward.

It's ironic as I'm not confident at all, I'm social awkward, hate confrontation, struggle to hold peoples gaze unless I'm actively conversing with them and get really anxious around people I like. I'm also an extrovert, so when I like someone, whether it be a friendship or romantically, I can't help myself. I want to get in their face, I want to talk to them, I want them to notice me and want them to remember my name. People like attention so it's always worked.

I always worked on the principle that once someone knows who you are, then anything is possible.

[LaneyDoll]

My ex had a silver necklace made with the word Femme in script. Not only was it beautiful, it sent a clear message.

She too got tired of being "invisible".

Hmmm, a necklace may be a good idea. When I used to go out, I was in full blown "ultra femme" mode so the people at the bars may have thought that I was just a really feminine drag queen. lol

When I am in what I call "doll mode" everything is perfect, dead on and no detail is missed.

I was far from invisible but probably a bit confusing to everyone.

:sparklyheart:

[JAGG]

Well if it makes you feel any better, we wish we knew too. Sure would make things easier.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I'm not subtle at. all. when I like someone. Trust me, it's worthwhile being forward.

It's ironic as I'm not confident at all, I'm social awkward, hate confrontation, struggle to hold peoples gaze unless I'm actively conversing with them and get really anxious around people I like. I'm also an extrovert, so when I like someone, whether it be a friendship or romantically, I can't help myself. I want to get in their face, I want to talk to them, I want them to notice me and want them to remember my name. People like attention so it's always worked.

I always worked on the principle that once someone knows who you are, then anything is possible.

I’m a complete contradiction; I’m comfortable within myself and fairly confident, and certainly not backwards in being forwards, as well as being extroverted and annoying cheerful, bubbly and happy (apparently, lol!). When I’m with people I know; whether at work or in my private life, my presence is felt, but, not in an in forceful your face kind of way.

But….. I hate confrontation and don’t like social settings with lots of people, preferring small gatherings. I’m not awkward socially, I just don’t like being around too many people at one time. I’m not easily intimidated by people and I’m not nervous or anxious by nature unless there’s a need to be (if that makes sense?)
When I’m chatting to someone I’ve just met, I’m still bubbly and talkative, only I lower my head slightly and look up at them, then look away to the side whilst smiling with my mouth closed.

Half of my problem is my thick accent; I’ve had to learn to ‘tone’ it down when I speak to people who aren’t used to my accent (basically sound more English English) over the years for people to understand what I’m saying and that does take a fair amount of effort to do to hold a conversation.

[macele]

it seems like a lot of butches won't make eye contact with even other butches. shy, fear, taken, not interested, ... the reason for not doing so, gotta be one of those lol. i noticed this in my teens. if i see someone that gives off a vibe/something visible (butch or femme), i try to make eye contact, smile.

if we use the mind set that most heterosexuals use, which is all femme women are straight, reverse that, ... all femme women are lesbians, ... can't hurt. be bold, go for it. if i see someone that interests me, this way, i'll find out soon enough if she's a lesbian lol.

the butch has to help. this thread right here is letting the butch know that a lot of femmes feel invisible. so step up!

standing out in the general public. that makes me go, whew! i don't know. i like the necklace idea, gemme and others mentioned. and the code word princessbelle mentioned. there has to be one, ... to make known world-wide lol. seriously. let me think about this lol.

[1QuirkyKiwi]

I'd like to wear something that shows clearly that I'm gay, but, I'm careful how I present my sexual orientation as I have been attacked in the past for wearing a rainbow broach. I travel to a part of London regularly for work that has a large Muslim community that has demonstrated a lot of violence towards gay people and threatened our community with being burned alive.

So, unless I use a 4x4 upside a Butch's head (hopefully not causing any head injuries, lol!), I'm at a loss for solutions...

[girl_dee]

Well if it makes you feel any better, we wish we knew too. Sure would make things easier.

if you ever see a woman walking around with a 2x4 (either weilding or sticking out of her purse) with a chin/forehead/ tattoo that says FEMME you should probably take note.

[Morgan]

I have tried to be aware of the femmes around me, out and about...In the grocery store, at the gym, restaurants, etc., but it is really tough to know. I do not want to look like I am staring at a straight woman, who just happens to glance over and smile at me. A smile does not equal femme woman, it may just mean she is a happy and friendly straight woman.

I apologize to any femme woman, who I did not notice....I would love to had talked to you, get to know you, go out on a date with, that would have been really nice. However, I did not see you standing next to me....I did not see the 2x4 sticking out of your oversized handbag, the femme tattoo on your forehead or the rainbow femme chain around your neck. Damn, where are all the femme women in my community? I do not see them....Please stand up and be counted, I would love to meet you.

[JustJo]

I'm one of those that looks like a soccer mom...but I've found one thing that straight women generally do not do when making eye contact with a cute butch...and that's a wink to go with that smile. :winky:

[Martina]

i find butches in general pretty guarded in public space. i can see why that happens, but i don't take too many chances. A friend of mine always lets them know that they have been seen and admired. i sometimes wish i were more like that, but i don't take the risk.

[Gemme]

This explains why I get a lot of interest from other Femmes. No offence is intended towards Butch’s when I say this; the ‘signals’ that I send out and maybe many of you Femmes who are seen as straight are far too subtle for them to pick up! It seems we need the 4x4s that Cajun dee has suggested! LOL!

There’s a new business venture; Cajun dee’s Butch Attention Grabbers! LOL!




Well if it makes you feel any better, we wish we knew too. Sure would make things easier.

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

[princessbelle]

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

You know Gemme i think maybe you are on to something. I don't want to speak for "them" as i know you don't want to either, but it is sorta the vibe i get as well.

I know that i notice everything, everybody and am in tune to the background noise because it is relatively benign to me, being somewhat invisible as being gay. I only have to be "on guard" when i'm with my partner and get those claws out, willing and ready to kick A if needed. I'm thinking if i was always like that, had been in that situation continuously for years like that, that maybe i would tone out the background and get to the point that i didn't give a flying flip and in doing so, could potentially not "see" someone that was family.

So, if someone was doing that and a femme happened to smile at them, they may not see that anymore than they may see a hateful glare.

I don't know but it sorta makes sense to me when i think about it. I hope some more butches/masculine peeps would care to elaborate on this.



That is a really cool way to see it. Thanks for sharing that.

[clay]

I will share my own opinion....and it is MINE alone...I am not speaking to, about, or alluding to anyone except ME!!! grins..
When I am out and about, I am not out there, cruising, looking, flirting, or any of that...I may be grocery shopping, dining out, or any such daily kinds of things...so if a femme (s) is in my immediate area, since I am not "looking" then, yes she/they may very well be a part of the landscape, so to speak. If one should flirt with me, I would wink back, smile, or such. However if I am with a date, a partner, or a S.O...then I would never be so disrespectful to that person I am with. So, again, the femme (s) would be invisible....so to speak...
I am NOT oblivious to any beautiful person...be it whatever gender...and there is nothing wrong with appreciating anyone's beauty...when done with respect...for self, for S.O., and the other person....I DO notice my background and space..and am constantly aware of things, people, and places...that comes from 21 yrs. of being an ER Nurse..you have to see all, know all, and be cognizant of this.
I guess for me, I am only recently aware of this "invisibility" to our community. About a year ago, I was dating a femme...and when we went out in public, it was very obvious I am "butch" and gay...but not so with her..only when she was out with me....we could be in a grocery store..and women...would grin at me or wink at me, or even turn around..some women even whistled at me as I walked past....I said "gee, what is that all about"? She said well it is obvious you are butch, but it is not obvious I am a lesbian unless I am out with you or any other butch (I know women go out with other genders BUT I am referring to butch only here as I am butch ID.'ed)...otherwise I am invisible. It was then I became aware of it. I totally understand what you ladies are saying, and I "get" it.
An example that comes to mind is this...ok, someone is a superhero...who dons regular clothes in day time and wears a superhero costume at night...if seen by anyone in daily wear...one wouldn't know they are a superhero...BUT come night, the costume is donned..and you KNOW that is a superhero..visible ONLY by the costume, otherwise unkown....now I want to say, this in NO WAY means femmes to don a superhero costume, NOR do I see you in one..this is a generic example...and in no way deflects anything except an example...trying to make my point.
BUT let me say this...for those of you who feel invisible....you are NOT, to me anyway, because I can feel you, sense you, and I KNOW the feminine mystique, the feminine power, and I respect that..on so many levels...and I "get" it. I will always acknowledge the greatness, the power of you, and respect it. Don those cute little "femme" necklaces, the forehead tattoos, or whatever else you want to...BUT I don't ever need a 2x4...I will SEE you..I will hear you roar, and I will respect YOU ALL...you are after all, a WOMAN first and foremost! You are ALL visible, all beautiful, and all that I need in my world...xoxoxo...Clay...:rrose:

[BullDog]

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

Yes I think this is very true Gemme. Many of us learn to tune out others' reactions to us as a coping mechanism. It just makes life easier to tune out and not care so much what people think of us. So when a femme is trying to get our attention or give us a smile or something it may not necessarily be that we don't recognize you are femme, but that we just don't notice someone is paying attention to us.

[JAGG]

if you ever see a woman walking around with a 2x4 (either weilding or sticking out of her purse) with a chin/forehead/ tattoo that says FEMME you should probably take note.

Well the 2x4 would really attract me Dee!!!!!!!! I would figure 1 of 2 things. Either she is really skilled in DIY home remodels in which case PERK and SWOON, or she needs a butch to help her in which case , it would be her lucky day if I was single at the time. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

[socialjustice_fsu]

What a great thread. It is comforting to know others are dealing with the very same issues about invisibility. I work for a large hospice unit located on a floor of one of our major hospitals. Day in and day out I see butches from all departments throughout the hospital. Let's just say it could be a lovely buffet. However, even getting them to simply make eye contact is a feat all within itself. It 'seems' they are always looking down for some reason. I think Gemme and Belle alluded to some of the reasons in an earlier post.
I am a femme. I have been judicious as to who I share my 'dynamic' (butch + femme). More than once the response has been: "You are too attractive to be "that." Or, "I didn't think lesbians wore heels, dresses...you know, acted like you do...." (I am not at all trying to be pompous but those were real responses). Looking back, my outing myself may not have been the right thing to do with some but that is their issue not mine. But....we (many femmes) are watching our lives march by simply by being in this cloak of invisibility. I want mostly to simply validate a butch's 'butchness'...for being who she/hy is to the world. When I see 'her' down the hall I would love to simply walk up and say 'We are in this together.' But, something still stops me. Maybe in some ways it works the same way for butches. I just don't know.
I heartily agree there must be some way to communicate to them that we are here and we want to know you, validate you, date you, adore you, love you (not all in the same day, though).
I think some of the brightest folks are here on the Planet. Surely we can bridge this gaping, absent link to know these butches. We want you. You enhance our world. Now we just need to know how to tell you or show you this.

[theoddz]

I've had a Femme self identify herself to me ONCE, and let me tell you, it couldn't have come at a better time, too!!

I was in the hospital a few years ago having a total knee replacement and those idiots (the surgical staff) put a LATEX foley (urinary) catheter in me. Well, it shut my kidneys down and was super painful. I kept telling my nurses how badly it was hurting, but they'd all dismiss me and tell me "Oh, no one is comfortable with those". I actually went into a full reaction with that and got little to no sympathy. :(

Until the second day, when I got a wonderful woman named "Lisa" for my nurse. Lisa was a Femme, thankG-dinSunnyHeaven!!!! She told me so, since I was just in my first year of transition at that time, but she recognized some of my more subtle changes and knew I was trans. When she introduced herself to me at the first of her shift, she gently leaned down and whispered in my ear, "Don't worry, you have "family" here and I'm going to take good care of you.". I know I had tears in my eyes when I realized what she was saying and I asked her, almost joyfully, "Are you a Femme??", to which she smiled and said, "Let me put it this way....My significant other is very masculine." Well, I told her my sad story of hurting so badly, and no one would listen, and could she please check the catheter and see if something was wrong. Well, she ended up pulling that damned thing out and she told me it was latex!!! She saw to it that I immediately got some medication to take my allergic reaction down. It took about a week, total, to get the reaction under control, but my kidneys finally started up and making urine again. I don't know what I'd have done without Lisa, that wonderful Femme, and her determination to take such good care of me. Thank G-d for her!!!!

Ladies, you DO make a difference to us, bois, boys, Butches and fellows. Don't be afraid to take those extra measures to let us know who you are. You might be quite pleasantly surprised!!! :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

[UofMfan]

I mentioned this in another thread, but butches and our more andro and masculine types get a lot of gruff. Sometimes, from the very beginning. So, it's my theory that they, as a coping mechanism maybe, tune a lot of the 'background' noise out when going about their daily business. It's unfortunate, but unless they see us, we're part of the 'background'.

I like the idea of a necklace and I like Jo's idea of adding that little bit of flirtation to that smile that says "Hey! I see you. Do you see me?"

I think that is partially true, at least for some of us.

I make eye contact, if I get that smile Jo talks about in return then I know. But if I make eye contact and I get nothing back, then I just go about my day.

I do not walk looking down, on the contraire, I always walk with my head up high, but I do tune out a lot of the background noise as I go about my life.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

I came out at the age of 49. I was the absolute PICTURE of "invisibility"!! My first gf was very butch, and I only ever felt like I was seen and perhaps recognized as family when I was with her. I plastered my car with Pride bumper stickers, just to get SOMEONE to recognize...no, ACKNOWLEDGE me! I cut my hair short, spiked it up, cause I thought that might make me look more "gay". *grinning....sheesh!*

So now, 11 yrs later, I still am invisible. I don't know if it is my age that does that, or what. Yeah, I still have the short spiked hair (well, it spikes sometimes!) But even when I am around family, I STILL get questioned on being a Femme!! Had a couple of friends over tonite, and one of them (she looks very butch, but swears she isn't) asked me, quite seriously, on whether I was Butch or Femme! I could not believe it!

As for the idea of catching a Butch's eye and winking, there is no way in the world I could do that! I have smiled at them, even gave a little nod, but nothing.

[Quintease]

Yeah, I'll never forget walking hand in hand with an ex girlfriend. She was quite butch and I... I was just me. A group of lesbians walked past and every one of them gave her the nod. Me? I was just invisible.

I was really not impressed.

[Christy51274]

I don't know what the solution is? I experience everything you and everyone else has talked about, but I still have no solution. I am always going to be a high femme. I am always going to look "straight". It is just part of the femme package, I guess. When I did not have a girlfriend, it was really difficult meeting people as well. I am super shy. The only time I notice butches checking me out is when I am with another butch (go figure). Oh well. Good luck on your journey femme sistah!

:-D
I guess I'll just have to get more aggressive with my behavior toward my butch counterparts. I'm like you, in the sense that I'm a bit shy and more subtle with my approach. Oh well... (sigh)

[Christy51274]

Yeah, I'll never forget walking hand in hand with an ex girlfriend. She was quite butch and I... I was just me. A group of lesbians walked past and every one of them gave her the nod. Me? I was just invisible.

I was really not impressed.
Wow, I don't know how I'd react to that. Not only is there femme invisibility within the hetero world, it exists withing the queer world as well.

[Christy51274]

What a great thread. It is comforting to know others are dealing with the very same issues about invisibility. I work for a large hospice unit located on a floor of one of our major hospitals. Day in and day out I see butches from all departments throughout the hospital. Let's just say it could be a lovely buffet. However, even getting them to simply make eye contact is a feat all within itself. It 'seems' they are always looking down for some reason. I think Gemme and Belle alluded to some of the reasons in an earlier post.
I am a femme. I have been judicious as to who I share my 'dynamic' (butch + femme). More than once the response has been: "You are too attractive to be "that." Or, "I didn't think lesbians wore heels, dresses...you know, acted like you do...." (I am not at all trying to be pompous but those were real responses). Looking back, my outing myself may not have been the right thing to do with some but that is their issue not mine. But....we (many femmes) are watching our lives march by simply by being in this cloak of invisibility. I want mostly to simply validate a butch's 'butchness'...for being who she/hy is to the world. When I see 'her' down the hall I would love to simply walk up and say 'We are in this together.' But, something still stops me. Maybe in some ways it works the same way for butches. I just don't know.
I heartily agree there must be some way to communicate to them that we are here and we want to know you, validate you, date you, adore you, love you (not all in the same day, though).
I think some of the brightest folks are here on the Planet. Surely we can bridge this gaping, absent link to know these butches. We want you. You enhance our world. Now we just need to know how to tell you or show you this.
@Social Justice:

I appreciate you sharing your words. I really wish there were a better way to communicate with our counterparts in a way that wouldn't make us not appear to be screaming out in desperation! LOL.

Have a great day. :)

[Christy51274]

I will share my own opinion....and it is MINE alone...I am not speaking to, about, or alluding to anyone except ME!!! grins..
When I am out and about, I am not out there, cruising, looking, flirting, or any of that...I may be grocery shopping, dining out, or any such daily kinds of things...so if a femme (s) is in my immediate area, since I am not "looking" then, yes she/they may very well be a part of the landscape, so to speak. If one should flirt with me, I would wink back, smile, or such. However if I am with a date, a partner, or a S.O...then I would never be so disrespectful to that person I am with. So, again, the femme (s) would be invisible....so to speak...
I am NOT oblivious to any beautiful person...be it whatever gender...and there is nothing wrong with appreciating anyone's beauty...when done with respect...for self, for S.O., and the other person....I DO notice my background and space..and am constantly aware of things, people, and places...that comes from 21 yrs. of being an ER Nurse..you have to see all, know all, and be cognizant of this.
I guess for me, I am only recently aware of this "invisibility" to our community. About a year ago, I was dating a femme...and when we went out in public, it was very obvious I am "butch" and gay...but not so with her..only when she was out with me....we could be in a grocery store..and women...would grin at me or wink at me, or even turn around..some women even whistled at me as I walked past....I said "gee, what is that all about"? She said well it is obvious you are butch, but it is not obvious I am a lesbian unless I am out with you or any other butch (I know women go out with other genders BUT I am referring to butch only here as I am butch ID.'ed)...otherwise I am invisible. It was then I became aware of it. I totally understand what you ladies are saying, and I "get" it.
An example that comes to mind is this...ok, someone is a superhero...who dons regular clothes in day time and wears a superhero costume at night...if seen by anyone in daily wear...one wouldn't know they are a superhero...BUT come night, the costume is donned..and you KNOW that is a superhero..visible ONLY by the costume, otherwise unkown....now I want to say, this in NO WAY means femmes to don a superhero costume, NOR do I see you in one..this is a generic example...and in no way deflects anything except an example...trying to make my point.
BUT let me say this...for those of you who feel invisible....you are NOT, to me anyway, because I can feel you, sense you, and I KNOW the feminine mystique, the feminine power, and I respect that..on so many levels...and I "get" it. I will always acknowledge the greatness, the power of you, and respect it. Don those cute little "femme" necklaces, the forehead tattoos, or whatever else you want to...BUT I don't ever need a 2x4...I will SEE you..I will hear you roar, and I will respect YOU ALL...you are after all, a WOMAN first and foremost! You are ALL visible, all beautiful, and all that I need in my world...xoxoxo...Clay...:rrose:
@Clay: What sweet, kind words! They made my day. Ms. Scarlett is a lucky woman.

Have a lovely day.

[kannon]

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

[ArkansasPiscesGrrl]

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

They really DO have apps for everything, why not this??

(wondering how, and in what manner, all us Femmes will be 'tagged". Will it be a small, under-the-skin GPS tracker?)

[LaneyDoll]

They really DO have apps for everything, why not this??

(wondering how, and in what manner, all us Femmes will be 'tagged". Will it be a small, under-the-skin GPS tracker?)

We could just install the app and keep our phones on us. It could work like "searching/listening" does for Bluetooth.

;)

:sparklyheart:

[kannon]

We could just install the app and keep our phones on us. It could work like "searching/listening" does for Bluetooth.

;)

:sparklyheart:


exactly!!!! and, it would be fairly easy to develop this app.

[LaneyDoll]

exactly!!!! and, it would be fairly easy to develop this app.

And it could still be called "searching/listening."

:sparklyheart:

[spritzerJ]

And it could still be called "searching/listening."

:sparklyheart:

This app idea shows promise. there seems to be an app for everything, why not locating femme's or butches?... and as if I need more reinforcement to keep the phone set to vibrate...

[The_Lady_Snow]

My cure for Femme Invisibility:

I see someone that I may find to be rather dashing, or I may want to get to know or I may want in their pants..

I go up and introduce myself and see how it goes, the worse than can happen is they say sorry I'm not that kinda girl/butch/boy/boi;)

[Lady_Di]

This app idea shows promise. there seems to be an app for everything, why not locating femme's or butches?... and as if I need more reinforcement to keep the phone set to vibrate...

Gay men already have it and it appears to be working quite well for them I saw it on LOGO, so it must be true~

[aishah]

i don't have a fancy phone, otherwise i'd love the app idea! mine just calls and texts, lol.

i need to get me a 2x4 though...or a necklace at least.

[JAGG]

Here is the problem. If a femme starts talking to me of course I assume she is straight. Even if she goes out of her way to talk to me, and is overly friendly. It doesn't make me think she is gay or interested in me . I just think she is a straight women, who knows can tell I'm gay, just by how I look and is in her own friendly way trying to tell me she is ok with it. In other words she's trying to show me in a subtle way, that she isn't homophobic. So talking to me and smiling and being friendly wouldn't make me think you were femme. I would think you were kind and just a friendly lady. Lol. Sorry .
You would have to say something really flirty for me to understand you were femme, not straight.

[LaneyDoll]

I would think you were kind and just a friendly lady. Lol. Sorry. You would have to say something really flirty for me to understand you were femme, not straight.

Hmmm. I am a kind and friendly lady. Who is also very flirty. And femme, not straight.

Damn. I guess I have been doing this wrong all along. Someone pass me a 2 x 4.



~hands Jagg a hotdog "his way" to apologize for picking at him~

:sparklyheart:

[JAGG]

Hmmm. I am a kind and friendly lady. Who is also very flirty. And femme, not straight.

Damn. I guess I have been doing this wrong all along. Someone pass me a 2 x 4.



~hands Jagg a hotdog "his way" to apologize for picking at him~

:sparklyheart:

Thank you Laney. I love being picked on . No apologizes needed, but I will take the chili dog since you offered. *smirk*

[LaneyDoll]

Thank you Laney. I love being picked on . No apologizes needed, but I will take the chili dog since you offered. *smirk*

You are lucky I am not single. I may serve it to you on a 2 x 4.

lol

:sparklyheart:

[Morgan]

Here is the problem. If a femme starts talking to me of course I assume she is straight. Even if she goes out of her way to talk to me, and is overly friendly. It doesn't make me think she is gay or interested in me . I just think she is a straight women, who knows can tell I'm gay, just by how I look and is in her own friendly way trying to tell me she is ok with it. In other words she's trying to show me in a subtle way, that she isn't homophobic. So talking to me and smiling and being friendly wouldn't make me think you were femme. I would think you were kind and just a friendly lady. Lol. Sorry .
You would have to say something really flirty for me to understand you were femme, not straight.

This is true....It would have to take some flirting or outright saying "I am a femme" for me to get it. Otherwise I too would think you were just a friendly straight woman who was accepting of me. Now the flirting on the other hand would get my attention, and I would act accordingly....when I say stand up and be counted, I mean approach me, talk to me, let me know, I really cannot guess. And yes if you are at a gay function or bar, I will believe you are a femme....

[Christy51274]

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.
What a novel idea, Kris. If you ever get one developed, I get first dibs!

[Sassy]

Here is the problem. If a femme starts talking to me of course I assume she is straight. Even if she goes out of her way to talk to me, and is overly friendly. It doesn't make me think she is gay or interested in me . I just think she is a straight women, who knows can tell I'm gay, just by how I look and is in her own friendly way trying to tell me she is ok with it. In other words she's trying to show me in a subtle way, that she isn't homophobic. So talking to me and smiling and being friendly wouldn't make me think you were femme. I would think you were kind and just a friendly lady. Lol. Sorry .
You would have to say something really flirty for me to understand you were femme, not straight.

I think this is more common than some gals might think.

When I met my SO she was friendly, but not willing to (in her words) "scare the straight girl" no matter how much I batted my lashes. So, I flat out asked her if she was single. After she said yes, I told her she looked delicious in those vintage jeans and asked if I could buy her dinner one Friday night. I wasn't creepy stalkerish in my approach. Just to the point. If it had gone the other way, no harm, no foul.

My opinion, Say Something. Even if they turn out to not be available, you may have made someone's day by just making them realize they've "still got it" ;)

[JAGG]

You are lucky I am not single. I may serve it to you on a 2 x 4.

lol

:sparklyheart:

Hey now you're talking my language, I would catch on to that ! HaHaHa

[Martina]

And saying something really flirty might make you assume we want to date you or as Snow says, get into your pants. i do not want to confuse anyone. i sure don't want to be rejected when i wasn't even on the make. So . . . .

[1QuirkyKiwi]

Hmmm. I am a kind and friendly lady. Who is also very flirty. And femme, not straight.

Damn. I guess I have been doing this wrong all along. Someone pass me a 2 x 4.



What about the Butch’s suffering from splinters and bruising; are we Femmes responsible? If so, I’d best pack the First Aid kit! :|

[clay]

@Clay: What sweet, kind words! They made my day. Ms. Scarlett is a lucky woman.

Have a lovely day.

Hi Christy:
I am the lucky one here...grins! She is absolutely amazing!!! So many tried to win her heart BUT I had the winning card....smiles!!! She has been elusive for about 8 years....smiles!
I am touched by your post. I write from my heart..and I am one Big Butch who KNOWS that it is the femme who makes me who I am!!!
Have a wonderful weekend yourself...and enjoy the Planet.
If I can ever help you with anything, feel free to ask....enjoy the evening yourself...smiles...Clay

[Miss Scarlett]

@Clay: What sweet, kind words! They made my day. Ms. Scarlett is a lucky woman.

Have a lovely day.

Thank you Christy...i am indeed one lucky femme to have such a completely kind, respectful,well mannered and loving partner...i am constantly in awe of this amazing person the Universe blessed this undeserving child with...

[socialjustice_fsu]

Hey now you're talking my language, I would catch on to that ! HaHaHa



Attention all Femmes:

What do you say about gethering up JAGG and hauling him to the lumber yard and let him get cozy with some of those 2 x 4's.

[girl_dee]

Well the 2x4 would really attract me Dee!!!!!!!! I would figure 1 of 2 things. Either she is really skilled in DIY home remodels in which case PERK and SWOON, or she needs a butch to help her in which case , it would be her lucky day if I was single at the time. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

One would think.

Yaknow you can only spend so much money sending boxes to yourself hoping the UPS butch will get the hint...signing your phone number never works, they make you fix it.... You can only break so much stuff in a small office space before they start investigating.

you can only trigger the fire alarm so many times before they fine you, and that butch firefighter is never on duty when you need her to be. (Now i have my very own firebutch and She doesn't really like the fire alarm trick)

i nearly ripped off the floor trim in my office once to get the attention of our handybutch. It didn't work, she came in, fixed it and left shaking her head saying she was not exactly sure how that could come off like that. (Luckily she didn't see the heel print )

You THINK she would have gotten the message when that darn trim came off a second time, not to mention the desk drawer being stuck and that stupid light bulb that i just could not reach.

She DID however ask me to come see her toolbox and her truck. My truck was bigger but I didn't mention that.

Hey wait! Maybe i was the 2x4 femme! Honestly i could have done my own repairs because i am very handy that way but it sounded like a good idea at the time.

Actually i was not trying to catch a date, but just to OUT myself somehow as being gay, and i am sure in the end that happened but not without a LOT of effort and extra construction work on her part.

[LaneyDoll]

Attention all Femmes:

What do you say about gethering up JAGG and hauling him to the lumber yard and let him get cozy with some of those 2 x 4's.

I'm game! I have handcuffs and the skills to put them on you before you even realize they are there.
;)

:sparklyheart:

[socialjustice_fsu]

I'm game! I have handcuffs and the skills to put them on you before you even realize they are there.
;)

:sparklyheart:

OMG! The visual I have going on in my head is film-making worthy.

[LaneyDoll]

OMG! The visual I have going on in my head is film-making worthy.

So, a trip to the lumber yard, with a butchnapped Jagg, handcuffs AND a camera?

Sounds like a great weekend to me!

:sparklyheart:

[Gemme]

I think this is more common than some gals might think.

When I met my SO she was friendly, but not willing to (in her words) "scare the straight girl" no matter how much I batted my lashes. So, I flat out asked her if she was single. After she said yes, I told her she looked delicious in those vintage jeans and asked if I could buy her dinner one Friday night. I wasn't creepy stalkerish in my approach. Just to the point. If it had gone the other way, no harm, no foul.

My opinion, Say Something. Even if they turn out to not be available, you may have made someone's day by just making them realize they've "still got it" ;)

And saying something really flirty might make you assume we want to date you or as Snow says, get into your pants. i do not want to confuse anyone. i sure don't want to be rejected when i wasn't even on the make. So . . . .

That would be my hesitation in the direct approach. The natural assumption that I was interested in them even if all I wanted was to acknowledge them and be seen myself.

Of course, if they took it as attraction and asked me out.....:thinking:....

[JAGG]

So, a trip to the lumber yard, with a butchnapped Jagg, handcuffs AND a camera?

Sounds like a great weekend to me!

:sparklyheart:

I may or may not have a similar fantasy about this very thing. LOL

[LaneyDoll]

I may or may not have a similar fantasy about this very thing. LOL

Hmmm. May or may not?

Should that read MAY or may not?

;)

:sparklyheart:

[Lady_Di]

I've had a Femme self identify herself to me ONCE, and let me tell you, it couldn't have come at a better time, too!!

I was in the hospital a few years ago having a total knee replacement and those idiots (the surgical staff) put a LATEX foley (urinary) catheter in me. Well, it shut my kidneys down and was super painful. I kept telling my nurses how badly it was hurting, but they'd all dismiss me and tell me "Oh, no one is comfortable with those". I actually went into a full reaction with that and got little to no sympathy. :(

Until the second day, when I got a wonderful woman named "Lisa" for my nurse. Lisa was a Femme, thankG-dinSunnyHeaven!!!! She told me so, since I was just in my first year of transition at that time, but she recognized some of my more subtle changes and knew I was trans. When she introduced herself to me at the first of her shift, she gently leaned down and whispered in my ear, "Don't worry, you have "family" here and I'm going to take good care of you.". I know I had tears in my eyes when I realized what she was saying and I asked her, almost joyfully, "Are you a Femme??", to which she smiled and said, "Let me put it this way....My significant other is very masculine." Well, I told her my sad story of hurting so badly, and no one would listen, and could she please check the catheter and see if something was wrong. Well, she ended up pulling that damned thing out and she told me it was latex!!! She saw to it that I immediately got some medication to take my allergic reaction down. It took about a week, total, to get the reaction under control, but my kidneys finally started up and making urine again. I don't know what I'd have done without Lisa, that wonderful Femme, and her determination to take such good care of me. Thank G-d for her!!!!

Ladies, you DO make a difference to us, bois, boys, Butches and fellows. Don't be afraid to take those extra measures to let us know who you are. You might be quite pleasantly surprised!!! :winky:

~Theo~ :bouquet:

On one hand this makes me so proud of my profession and the femmes that abound within. On the other hand, I am so pissed off that the rest of the staff there treated you so poorly. Could have fricken killed you and they would have been none the wiser. Really sad, but a valuable lesson here. I will always defend each and every patient I get, especially the ones that the rest of the staff abhor or dismiss for whatever reason. And I have seen many biases and supposed reasons for their dismissive attititudes. Bottomline it is unethical in a profession that prides itself on the very highest of ethics and honesty. I think the nursing board needs to be forewarned of such bs, imnsho. They have the power to educate and demand equal and fair treatment to one and all. Fight the good fight, mon ami.

[JAGG]

Hmmm. May or may not?

Should that read MAY or may not?

;)

:sparklyheart:

I think I will just let that be a big mystery. Haha. Let's do the math, shall we ? Kidnapped by a group of femmes handcuffed and hidden in a lumber yard , now what butch has thought about that once or twice, that's all I'm gonna say about that. (Sheepish grin)

[LaneyDoll]

I think I will just let that be a big mystery. Haha. Let's do the math, shall we ? Kidnapped by a group of femmes handcuffed and hidden in a lumber yard , now what butch has thought about that once or twice, that's all I'm gonna say about that. (Sheepish grin)

Yeah be careful with that thought. I am really bad with directions and I may lose someone if I stash them anywhere. They would need a GPS locator, a flashing beacon etc for me to find my way back.

Especially in a lumber yard.

:sparklyheart:

[JAGG]

Yeah be careful with that thought. I am really bad with directions and I may lose someone if I stash them anywhere. They would need a GPS locator, a flashing beacon etc for me to find my way back.

Especially in a lumber yard.

:sparklyheart:

Haha. Wouldn't be the first time, I was left behind. Just wasn't handcuffed. Lol

[LaneyDoll]

Haha. Wouldn't be the first time, I was left behind. Just wasn't handcuffed. Lol

Handcuffed in a lumber yard with your butch-napper who is lost is not a good idea.

:sparklyheart:

[JAGG]

Handcuffed in a lumber yard with your butch-napper who is lost is not a good idea.

:sparklyheart:

It be tough trying to explain things to the local news stations and police. Lol

[LaneyDoll]

It be tough trying to explain things to the local news stations and police. Lol

Hey! I bet the homemade video would go viral! We could be rich!

:sparklyheart:

[Princess]

Ya know earlier on Medusa said she wore a necklace that said "femme" on it...well it made me curious because ive never seen anything like that. So I went on a little hunt and sure enough Etsy had cute little necklaces that say Femme on them, and I also found a site that you could personalize your own necklace for somewhere around $30. Not too bad!

On another thread someone had mentioned that maybe we (femmes) should wear some specific type and color bracelet so that we could be spotted and identified easily. What do you guys think about that?

[~ocean]

only u princess would find just what someone is looking for !!! I <3 u :)))

[Quintease]

I used to wear a 'Dyke' until the day I walked into a store and the guy behind the counter said, 'Who's Duke? Is he your boyfriend?'. Completely stumped for what to say I walked out of the store in silence.

I would wear a 'femme' however, in fact someone I know wears a femme...

[MaggieBluIze]

Hi *smile*

This last Sunday ...
Due to a laundry situation, had to borrow my g/f's boi polo ...
Due to a slight weight :seeingstars:, wore my baggy khaki shorts ...
Due to lots of walking planned for our outing, I wore tennis shoes ...
Due to needing a haircut, had hair in ponytail ...

Result ... "They" SAW Me!!!

The butches I walked by SAW me ...
Said hello ... Nodded ... Smiled ... OMG!!!!!

This does NOT happen!!!!!
Not just once, but SEVEN times!!!!

It was so exhilarating ...
Till I remembered each time that I was not in my "normal" garb.
I would normally not look like "this".

In MY "normal clothes" today, walked past 3 butches at separate times, not even a half a glance.
Nothing!!!!!!!! It was a very sad moment, each time.

Femme Invisibility ... Yes, I know it well.

[FemmeAllae]

I propose the development of a new Iphone app called:

femme visibility.

it will work like a GPS tracking device.

Brilliant!

[Clyde]

vu-5zRzFnX0

[cricket26]

at the grocery store...i was getting my wallet from my purse...and saw barefeet with sandals...my gaze went up and i saw plaid shorts...further up i saw a butch with a dallas cowboys ski cap on her head walking by me at the check out....looking at me as if i were invisible...as the couple behind her walked by me i did not notice the husband, but the wife glared at me...i did not feel invisible to her..i managed to get my things rung up while the girls behind me watched my peculiar interactions with total strangers...and as i tried to make my way passed all of them i was invisible as all of them found a way to prevent me from passing...ugh...this happens to me every time i am at the store...sigh...

[randrum]

So I thought I'd add my two cents to this thread, because I find it interesting. Not sure what I have to say is worth that much though. ;)

I'm completely oblivious. To everyone. It's not a matter of not knowing if a lady is femme or not. It's me being so lost in my own head and probably thinking about my own feelings of invisibility that I don't notice anyone around me in return.

And when it comes to a femme being interested in me or flirting with me? I'm definitely the butch you'll need a 2x4 with. Unless you make it 100% clear and obvious, I will not pick up on the subtly.

[thedreamerin]

I am completely invisible, as far as my status as a lesbian goes. For me it is kind of nifty. I kind of see it like this... by mistaking me for just any other heterosexual woman they are proving a point that I try to make everyday of my life.
We're all humans first. :D
Still, I guess it can be a bit frustrating because I have yet to get hit on by a woman in the physical.
Then again I am the type that you would have to be semi aggressive with to gain any headway because I live in my own little world.

[thedreamerin]

By semi aggressive I mean You have to come up to me and say "Hey I think you're beautiful... " that gets my attention. Or at least you could say something along that vein. Just don't grab my butt, that will get you slapped, and don't stare at my boobs..

[CherylNYC]

It feels as if the older I get, the more invisible as a femme lesbian I become. First of all, I now own a car and I no longer ride my motorcycle everywhere full time, and year 'round. I did that until I was about 48 years old. Besides the fact that riding through winters in New York makes any person look bad-ass, (bad-ass woman=lesbian is often a safe assumption), my motorcycle and my helmet are bedecked with rainbow stickers. That's been my regular cue to the world for most of my adult life.

But it's not just the motorcycle. Something else has changed. I may look softer now, and for better or worse, I think I blend in better. My closest friend who has known me since I was in my mid twenties commented on it the other day. She said, "You look more and more like a straight girl. If I were meeting you for the first time I might not guess you were queer."

I don't like it, but I don't think I'm prepared to deliberately change anything about myself. At least not yet.

[Martina]

I have always looked straight and always refused to get the alternative haircut or go performatively feminine in ways that would have gotten me a second look from other queers -- because it's not me. It has sorta sucked to get that "you are not a dyke" look from women who weren't even born yet when I came out, but there is something about my gender presentation that is pretty core. I don't plan on changing it.

[thedreamerin]

It is just beautiful that we don't have to change. :)

[BombsiteBoudicca]

i know this sounds old skool, but i'm rarely 'seen' unless i'm with a butch partner/date/friend. This is simultaneously extremely frustrating *and yet* gives me a little frisson of excitement. It's the thrill of being recognized...a very powerful- and empowering- feeling for those of us who are often mistaken as straight.

[princessbelle]

i know this sounds old skool, but i'm rarely 'seen' unless i'm with a butch partner/date/friend. This is simultaneously extremely frustrating *and yet* gives me a little frisson of excitement. It's the thrill of being recognized...a very powerful- and empowering- feeling for those of us who are often mistaken as straight.

I don't know how this is "old skool" but i completely agree with your post. It IS frustrating to not be seen when alone or with other femmes. However, when with my butch...wow, what a feeling. I walk tall and proud. I know i'm seen by both straight folk and most importantly by gay folk.

I remember not too long ago being with Durx8 at the mall and we passed a couple of butch folk and they smiled at us and nodded. Point is, if i had been alone, i would not have received that smile or nod or even noticed. It feels GOOD to be included in the community!!!!

I'm not sure what butches feel like when walking with femmes, but this femme feels SEEN. And PROUD. :)

[MsTinkerbelly]

Still invisable, looking more like a middle aged woman every day. Lol, whatever that really means!

I used to think femme meant dresses and heals, but i came out late in life (38) and had no role models other than finding the old B-F site and reading about what a femme SHOULD look like. I finally learned to just be me, and i am much happier.

I get visability when I'm with my love, and I am content with that. ;)

[Nat]

One of the things I really have enjoyed about the reunions is the ability to be *understood* on sight by relative strangers, without necessarily having a date on my arm to queer me.

I've taken up the nod.

[cutiefemme]

I can't find an exciting butch. Once at a party two butches were debating if I was straight until I tried to dance with one of them but she already had a girlfriend. But sometimes I'm confident enough to turn my head and smile at a cute butch and then they notice me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I lose my visibility at work, doesn't bother me till it does.

[femmeandstrong]

Invisible can be so peaceful and my friends know how to find me...

[BombsiteBoudicca]

I totally understand the peacefulness that can come with invisibility, but I guess the older I get the more I want to scream "HERE!!!! OVER HERE!!!!"
The feminist in me (well, every bit of me is feminist but anyway....) resents the fact I need another human being to publicly define me. Yet I know deep down I need my butch/daddy to feel truly me. My head may be conflicted but my heart and panties love it ; )

[Nat]

Invisibility gets on my nerves the second someone asks me if I have a husband or references gay people as though I am straight or when a straight woman expects me to drool over some male celebrity with them. I outed myself on the first day of my current job because one of my coworkers was talking about a doctor and she said, "you know he's *whisper* gay, right?" I was all "me too." Maybe it would be smarter to keep silent - but I just don't want to participate in bullshit.

[Femminator]

I find my invisibilty comforting at times, and annoying at others. I want it to be known that I am beautiful and proud to not be open for male gaze, that I am with a Butch of my choosing and I also am Queer. During dangerous times, I can pass and it's kinda nice because I can protect myself.

[Angeltoes]

I see tons of cute butches when I'm out and about, but I get really weird responses when I try to flirt. I think I must look like a church girl from the suburbs. I still remember the one time a very attractive butch tried to flirt with me and I blew it off because I was upset about something. I think that memory will haunt me for the rest of my life..lol.

[JDeere]

My poor girlfriend is "invisible" but I don't think she has an issue with it or not, I am trying to get her into the realm of the butch-femme dance and such. IDK if I will succeed but at least I can try.

I read the femme's stories in here and it sounds a bit like how my g/f is perceived outside of the comfort of her home.

[Mormegil]

Well I know im invisible , since Im 31 and not one woman ever has approached me or flirted...and im butch and theres a gay community here lol . So dont feel bad about being invisible i know what you mean. Iam so over being invisible.

[CherylNYC]

I saw Mary Gauthier perform at a little coffee house in upstate NY on Friday night. The owner supported her early on, so she usually stops there even though it's a much smaller venue than she usually plays these days. I was alone, so I was seated at a table with a nice looking lesbian couple. I introduced myself and tried to start a conversation. They outright ignored me! I have a strong feeling it was because I was wearing lipstick. I would bet you a Mary Gauthier CD that they would have been friendlier had I stomped in carrying my motorcycle helmet and wearing my leather riding gear. Hmmph.

[introverted1]

I'm sort of in the same boat as femmeandstrong. It doesn't bother me when random folks wish me a happy mother's day or assume that I'm straight. My peeps all know what/who I am.

If I wanted to be ID'ed as a lesbian, I guess I would wear some sort of rainbow/double female symbol/labyris type jewelry.

[*Anya*]

For me, as a femme lesbian, it is a process of coming out each time I meet anyone new. I have heard more times than I have fingers and toes, "I never would have guessed that you were gay".

I heard this once again Friday from our new staff person.

I was even wearing a beautiful necklace I just got from Etsy that says "femme".

Not that it will help, but I try.

[introverted1]

For me, as a femme lesbian, it is a process of coming out each time I meet anyone new. I have heard more times than I have fingers and toes, "I never would have guessed that you were gay".

I heard this once again Friday from our new staff person.

I was even wearing a beautiful necklace I just got from Etsy that says "femme".

Not that it will help, but I try.

I hear you about coming out anew with each new acquaintance... I figured it was the same for most lesbians. Consider me newly educated on the topic...:flowers:

I wonder if the "femme" necklace is perhaps too vague for most folks? Maybe something more blatantly gay would help ID you.

[*Anya*]

I hear you about coming out anew with each new acquaintance... I figured it was the same for most lesbians. Consider me newly educated on the topic...:flowers:

I wonder if the "femme" necklace is perhaps too vague for most folks? Maybe something more blatantly gay would help ID you.

I was kind of hesitant to order the "lesbian femme" one to wear to work but maybe I should get an extra one that includes lesbian for when I am out and about!

:)

[introverted1]

I was kind of hesitant to order the "lesbian femme" one to wear to work but maybe I should get an extra one that includes lesbian for when I am out and about!

:)

Oh my gosh, that sounds ideal!

[candy_coated_bitch]

I was kind of hesitant to order the "lesbian femme" one to wear to work but maybe I should get an extra one that includes lesbian for when I am out and about!

:)

You totally should!

[Arden]

I find the continual coming out to be a bit annoying. Its not as if I ever hide it unless a safety concern is present, I don't go looking to get myself killed. One of my worst "coming outs" was going to file for divorce and having to correct the lady in the family law center who kept telling me where to put "his" name and information. I kept saying "her" and she would respond "his." We continued on this pattern until I finally said her my partner is/was a woman. "Oh" she responds and then quiet for a moment. Yeah, that was fun.

[introverted1]

I find the continual coming out to be a bit annoying. Its not as if I ever hide it unless a safety concern is present, I don't go looking to get myself killed. One of my worst "coming outs" was going to file for divorce and having to correct the lady in the family law center who kept telling me where to put "his" name and information. I kept saying "her" and she would respond "his." We continued on this pattern until I finally said her my partner is/was a woman. "Oh" she responds and then quiet for a moment. Yeah, that was fun.

I'm recently divorced from my wife, and I have to agree...the continual having to explain that my soon to be ex was another woman was most difficult.

[girlin2une]

I have so many nights filled with nightmares and insomnia. When this happens, I "journal." I write it all down and have had for years. I won't re-read most of what I've written because it is too hard sometimes, but I still do it because it helps. And so, here is my latest communication... I'm posting in femme invisibility because most of the time I'm invisible to everyone.

I'm a queer woman partnered with a transgender man, but everyone assumes we're a heterosexual couple. On the surface, we’re the quintessential duo. This relationship has afforded me the privilege of banal nonconformity, but I'm still queer. Sometimes I feel like I've lost a piece of myself, but I wouldn't change anything for the world! As my relationship deepened, my queerness has become camouflaged to the outside world.

"Queer" is as an umbrella term for any gender or sexual expression outside of societal norms. For me, this umbrella term extends to politics, subculture, and perspective. My queerness has been a continuous re-examining of myself, a process that began (but was not understood) before my teens. I embraced the term way back in my twenties because it encompassed far more than just attraction or gender.

Queerness is anti-classification by definition, so it looks different for everyone. Over time, my queerness has become symbolic of a host of characteristics other than my sexuality. Despite the term’s controversial origins in hate speech, for me, it’s been a proud way to claim outsider status.

But claiming outsider status is complicated these days. Especially since Trump. I don't know just how to communicate how I feel about that as a Canadian having watched the election transpire. I just know that I have a personal take on the subject as my amazing partner is American. How can I be myself in a country filled with hate towards people like myself? To be precise, I’ve been with men and women, cisgender, and trans. With each new relationship came awkward explanations and the nagging temptation to draw conclusions about my sexuality.

Having evolved past my "femme visibility" years, I’ve grown into a long-haired, creative woman whose queer experience is hidden to the untrained eye. Many of those experiences were so negative. I've been hurt beyond belief (and THAT is a story for another day) I remained single for a decade. Yes. An entire decade. But I'm now with the most amazing (and inspirational) man whose empathy surpasses any other. He "gets" me. He loves me (even when I feel unlovable), he accepts all of my idiosyncrasies and encourages me to be the strong submissive that I am.

Falling in love with my partner has me thinking: Maybe I’m straight after all? But, I conceded: I guess I’ve been gay all along? Over time, I’ve realized that my partners’ genders and sexual identities indicate little about me, but for the rest of the world, it’s still a signpost. The more indistinct my queerness has become, the more I give thought to current times... I can safely kiss my partner in public, even under the watchful eye of haters, because I blend in. But do I? Should I? Why can't we just be ourselves without fear of persecution?

Ok, enough rambling. My partner joshingly (!) says what I write is awkward, but when I write, I write from the heart.

Thanks for listening...

[gotoseagrl]

Good topic. I've thought about this from time to time. At a job I had in the past, whenever butches would come through my line, I would blush and try to avoid eye contact as much as possible, which probably just made everything more obvious. So there's one clue. When I'm single, I tend to pay attention to my radar more and catch them in the corner of my eye, which they probably never notice, thank goodness. And when I'm not single, my partner is usually the one pointing out to me that we just passed another b-f couple or a butch or trans guy, as I tend to pay less attention.

As for femmes, in general, I think we are most invisble to each other (femme to femme). That would be the hardest one to tell ... unless she's a friend and it comes up in discussion, or she is seen with her partner. My partners tend to pass as male more often than not, but when I am out with them, it is my nature to walk with extra pride, usually holding hands or snuggling their arm, because I know who we are. If I did notice another femme out there, I would want to give her a big high five.

[girlin2une]

As for femmes, in general, I think we are most invisble to each other (femme to femme).


I agree whole heartedly with this statement. Unless your group of friends are mainly Trans/Butch and femme, we remain invisible to one another...

[girlin2une]

I have so many nights filled with nightmares and insomnia. When this happens, I "journal." I write it all down and have had for years. I won't re-read most of what I've written because it is too hard sometimes, but I still do it because it helps. And so, here is my latest communication... I'm posting in femme invisibility because most of the time I'm invisible to everyone.

I'm a queer woman partnered with a transgender man, but everyone assumes we're a heterosexual couple. On the surface, we’re the quintessential duo. This relationship has afforded me the privilege of banal nonconformity, but I'm still queer. Sometimes I feel like I've lost a piece of myself, but I wouldn't change anything for the world! As my relationship deepened, my queerness has become camouflaged to the outside world.

"Queer" is as an umbrella term for any gender or sexual expression outside of societal norms. For me, this umbrella term extends to politics, subculture, and perspective. My queerness has been a continuous re-examining of myself, a process that began (but was not understood) before my teens. I embraced the term way back in my twenties because it encompassed far more than just attraction or gender.

Queerness is anti-classification by definition, so it looks different for everyone. Over time, my queerness has become symbolic of a host of characteristics other than my sexuality. Despite the term’s controversial origins in hate speech, for me, it’s been a proud way to claim outsider status.

But claiming outsider status is complicated these days. Especially since Trump. I don't know just how to communicate how I feel about that as a Canadian having watched the election transpire. I just know that I have a personal take on the subject as my amazing partner is American. How can I be myself in a country filled with hate towards people like myself? To be precise, I’ve been with men and women, cisgender, and trans. With each new relationship came awkward explanations and the nagging temptation to draw conclusions about my sexuality.

Having evolved past my "femme visibility" years, I’ve grown into a long-haired, creative woman whose queer experience is hidden to the untrained eye. Many of those experiences were so negative. I've been hurt beyond belief (and THAT is a story for another day) I remained single for a decade. Yes. An entire decade. But I'm now with the most amazing (and inspirational) man whose empathy surpasses any other. He "gets" me. He loves me (even when I feel unlovable), he accepts all of my idiosyncrasies and encourages me to be the strong submissive that I am.

Falling in love with my partner has me thinking: Maybe I’m straight after all? But, I conceded: I guess I’ve been gay all along? Over time, I’ve realized that my partners’ genders and sexual identities indicate little about me, but for the rest of the world, it’s still a signpost. The more indistinct my queerness has become, the more I give thought to current times... I can safely kiss my partner in public, even under the watchful eye of haters, because I blend in. But do I? Should I? Why can't we just be ourselves without fear of persecution?

Ok, enough rambling. My partner joshingly (!) says what I write is awkward, but when I write, I write from the heart.

Thanks for listening...

I am just curious how my fellow femmes maintain their own queer identities...

[MsTinkerbelly]

I find the older I get, the less it matters if someone sees me as femme. Wow, I never thought I would say that. :blink:

I guess it is true of most things in my life...I don't care if it bothers people when I laugh loudly in the theatre, or wonder if people "like me" when I turn to talk in the grocery line, or give a flying fig if they agree with my opinion.

The only time I care to be seen as femme is when I am out with my butch; as a non-single femme, I really don't care if the butch I walk by "knows me". I am mostly immersed in my everyday life now, foregoing Pride, skipping the lesbian bars and feeling ok with my invisibility.

[Gemme]

I am just curious how my fellow femmes maintain their own queer identities...

I'm not sure how to answer this exactly. I think the word 'maintain' is throwing me off. My Queerness doesn't require maintenance and neither does my femme-ness.

When I was younger and in my first relationship with an FTM, I had a bit of an identity crisis but it had nothing to do with being perceived as straight and everything to do with him wanting me to BE straight. Obviously, that didn't work out.

I need room to exist as a Queer femme inside the relationship. If I have that, I won't worry about what others outside of the relationship think or say about me and how I present myself.

[*Anya*]

I am just curious how my fellow femmes maintain their own queer identities...

I don't identify as queer.

In the same way that a lot of younger folks (or older) do not identify as a lesbian for their own personal reasons, I just don't feel comfortable calling myself queer.

I am a lesbian.

I will always be a lesbian.

On occasion, I have been known to call myself a dyke but it doesn't roll off my tongue in the same way lesbian does, either.

I don't care if someone else ID's as queer because I have no right to impose my own identity on someone else.

I ask only for the same respect in turn and for others to understand how much my identity means to me.

I fought too hard, for too long, to own lesbian for myself and to develop a level of comfort with the fact that I am a lesbian.

I love women. I fall in love with women. I am only sexually attracted to women.

I wish that it were easier for butch lesbians to look at me and to know that I am a lesbian femme but whether the world sees me as such or not; it will never change that it is my identity.

I maintain it by living it, no matter how the world feels about me. I can't do or be anything else.

[girlin2une]

I'm not sure how to answer this exactly. I think the word 'maintain' is throwing me off. My Queerness doesn't require maintenance and neither does my femme-ness.

When I was younger and in my first relationship with an FTM, I had a bit of an identity crisis but it had nothing to do with being perceived as straight and everything to do with him wanting me to BE straight. Obviously, that didn't work out.

I need room to exist as a Queer femme inside the relationship. If I have that, I won't worry about what others outside of the relationship think or say about me and how I present myself.

Perhaps "maintain" was the wrong word...
I guess I just mean that I've always been femme. Queer visibility is the quintessential double edged sword. People who are read as queer tend to face more overt discrimination and hostility, while the typical femme can slide by without much confrontation at all. It doesn't necessarily make us feel better or safer for that matter (in this trump day and age especially). We have conversations with the grocer, the manicurist, the Dr, teachers, parents (if we are teachers ourselves) and other day to day interactions with strangers and acquaintances. During one relationship, I was with a woman who had a very masculine french name and was very butch. Whenever we were out together, we got stares, misjudgements etc. This carried on in other relationships I had as well. It was like a constant proving of myself. "Yes, I have long hair" "Yes, I wear dresses" "No, I don't wear birkenstocks" "Yes, I love to embrace my femininity" "Yes, I really DO play baseball and no, I don't play in a dress" and so on and so on...
I'm a queer woman and I am really not interested in hiding that fact, but it's often challenging and complicated to try to be visible in public as queer. The cultural presumption of straightness is deeply ingrained, and many, perhaps most - people assume that everyone is heterosexual, despite any cues to the contrary.
I wouldn't necessarily mind people not knowing I'm gay, but I definitely don't like being thought of as straight. When I lived in Vancouver, and was active in the B/F and leather community, everyone knew me as femme. I didn't have to identify my orientation nor prove that I was queer. I really miss Vancouver... Now, living where I do, in a small Ontario town, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE just assumes I am a straight girl. I have had propositions by cis-guys and have had co-workers try to set me up with cis-guys. When I pass by the few other queers in town, I'd try to give them that nod... you know the one... ;) If a butch walked by, I'd even meet said butch's eye, but yet still.... everyone just assumes I'm another straight girl... Don't get me started on Transguys (my preference)... I would not find one here with a 10 foot pole!
I think I've gone on another ramble, and I guess I should be more complacent about it. I DO have a wonderful partner and honestly; does it really matter in the end if we are seen as a heterosexual couple? We both know we are queer....

[CherylNYC]

I don't identify as queer.

In the same way that a lot of younger folks (or older) do not identify as a lesbian for their own personal reasons, I just don't feel comfortable calling myself queer.

I am a lesbian.

I will always be a lesbian.

On occasion, I have been known to call myself a dyke but it doesn't roll off my tongue in the same way lesbian does, either.

I don't care if someone else ID's as queer because I have no right to impose my own identity on someone else.

I ask only for the same respect in turn and for others to understand how much my identity means to me.

I fought too hard, for too long, to own lesbian for myself and to develop a level of comfort with the fact that I am a lesbian.

I love women. I fall in love with women. I am only sexually attracted to women.

I wish that it were easier for butch lesbians to look at me and to know that I am a lesbian femme but whether the world sees me as such or not; it will never change that it is my identity.

I maintain it by living it, no matter how the world feels about me. I can't do or be anything else.

My feelings exactly. This bears repeating.

I'm emphatically a lesbian, a lesbian feminist, a dyke, a bad-ass biker, plus a lot more. But I'm not queer. Being called queer has come to really annoy me. I still think it's a fighting word, especially in the mouths of straight dudes.

Yes, I ardently maintain my femme lesbian identity.

[girlin2une]

No offense was intended with my use of the word "queer"...

[CherylNYC]

No offense was intended with my use of the word "queer"...

None taken. I'm just sensitive to the presumption that we all must use 'queer' to describe ourselves now.

[Gemme]

Perhaps "maintain" was the wrong word...
I guess I just mean that I've always been femme. Queer visibility is the quintessential double edged sword. People who are read as queer tend to face more overt discrimination and hostility, while the typical femme can slide by without much confrontation at all. It doesn't necessarily make us feel better or safer for that matter (in this trump day and age especially). We have conversations with the grocer, the manicurist, the Dr, teachers, parents (if we are teachers ourselves) and other day to day interactions with strangers and acquaintances. During one relationship, I was with a woman who had a very masculine french name and was very butch. Whenever we were out together, we got stares, misjudgements etc. This carried on in other relationships I had as well. It was like a constant proving of myself. "Yes, I have long hair" "Yes, I wear dresses" "No, I don't wear birkenstocks" "Yes, I love to embrace my femininity" "Yes, I really DO play baseball and no, I don't play in a dress" and so on and so on...
I'm a queer woman and I am really not interested in hiding that fact, but it's often challenging and complicated to try to be visible in public as queer. The cultural presumption of straightness is deeply ingrained, and many, perhaps most - people assume that everyone is heterosexual, despite any cues to the contrary.
I wouldn't necessarily mind people not knowing I'm gay, but I definitely don't like being thought of as straight. When I lived in Vancouver, and was active in the B/F and leather community, everyone knew me as femme. I didn't have to identify my orientation nor prove that I was queer. I really miss Vancouver... Now, living where I do, in a small Ontario town, everyone, and I mean EVERYONE just assumes I am a straight girl. I have had propositions by cis-guys and have had co-workers try to set me up with cis-guys. When I pass by the few other queers in town, I'd try to give them that nod... you know the one... ;) If a butch walked by, I'd even meet said butch's eye, but yet still.... everyone just assumes I'm another straight girl... Don't get me started on Transguys (my preference)... I would not find one here with a 10 foot pole!
I think I've gone on another ramble, and I guess I should be more complacent about it. I DO have a wonderful partner and honestly; does it really matter in the end if we are seen as a heterosexual couple? We both know we are queer....

I get this and have been there. The cloak of invisibility can be both protective and smothering; sometimes simultaneously. It's a strange rope to walk.

[*Anya*]

No offense was intended with my use of the word "queer"...

None taken. I'm just sensitive to the presumption that we all must use 'queer' to describe ourselves now.

Ditto.

Queer encompasses many identities.

Lesbian is specific.

[girl_dee]

I'm recently divorced from my wife, and I have to agree...the continual having to explain that my soon to be ex was another woman was most difficult.

SO true, when you are femme and you even say divorce, people assume its a man unless they know you.

[girl_dee]

There is butch woman (that I may be assuming wrongly) that lives near me. She seems rather uptight. When I walk my little dog right past her she looks past me, then the other way past me. I try to make eye contact to just say hello, but she isn't having it.

Yesterday evening she was standing out by the sidewalk, apparently watching the moon come up. I looked over and saw it too. It was gorgeous.

On the way back she was still there, i said "Nice moon!" she said "What??"

I shrunk down and said *nice moon* and keep scooting along. She said "uh yeah its pretty" .. but it was clear she was very uptight.

This place is a world away from New Orleans but wow. I was told the gays *live under a rock* around here but goodness.

[YBFemme]

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

[girl_dee]

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

Very good advice.

[Gemme]

That personally hasn't been experience.

:blink:

[Nat]

Retailers using the word "femme" on clothing not meant for femmes (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3528063/lesbian-slams-topshop-hm-femme-lgbt/)

[candy_coated_bitch]

That personally hasn't been experience.

:blink:

Mine either.

[homoe]

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

I apologize beforehand if butches aren't allowed to post in the femme zone, but I take umbrage at the "And those who do not, meh"!

There have been a few times I did not know, and I would hate to think someone would blow me off or deem me unworthy simply based on that.

[candy_coated_bitch]

Retailers using the word "femme" on clothing not meant for femmes (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3528063/lesbian-slams-topshop-hm-femme-lgbt/)

So obnoxious to me. I read fashion magazines and they are calling "girly" style "femme". Like sporty, boho, etc. I've found it an ignorant use of the word femme.

[girl_dee]

Please take one if you should run across a 2 x 4 butch .....

http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/ORIGINALS/Photogallery/ayc/AYC2X4D&BTRCLRS4STANIN2.jpg

[*Anya*]

Be yourself. Butch women will know. Trust me. And those who do not, meh.

I apologize beforehand if butches aren't allowed to post in the femme zone, but I take umbrage at the "And those who do not, meh"!

There have been a few times I did not know, and I would hate to think someone would blow me off or deem me unworthy simply based on that.

Of course you can post here homoe! I believe that we are allowed to post in any thread as long as it is respectful.

I do recall some issues in the femme lingerie thread, however.. but that is something else.

There has never been any way that a butch has known that I was a lesbian femme by looking at me.

When I was younger, I simply looked like a girl.

Now that I am older, I look like a woman.

I don't always know if a butch is a lesbian either. There are the outdoorsy, flannel shirt (using a stereotype here for illustrative purposes only!!) straight women out and about everywhere.

The only way to truly know each other is the look. That moment when your eyes catch each other, a smile is given and the gaze is held just a smidgen longer than one would do with a straight woman.

Then, you have to dive in (so to speak) and go talk to the butch to find out for sure.

Same with those of us that ID as Femmes.

When all else fails, there is a 2 x 4 but I prefer the subtle approach.

[IrishAmazon]

Yes, it's my perception/experience, and knowing that there is a different struggle on the other side of the cloth. But here is my experience.

I tend to look like the woman next door, on blend in. It's just who I am, maybe its because I was the tall girl all those years in school, and the fat girl, I taught myself to hide in plain sight. Unfortunately when in used to try to go to gay of lesbian bars and clubs in My late teens and twenties I was so effective at what had become natural I would get asked to leave. Or reminded when I walked in that my kind did not belong, quite verbal and aggressive

I have worn jewelry when I couldn't find something tasteful I made it. I am not the kind of girl who wears T shirts especially with logos or sticker type stuff on it, they don't usually fit anyhow, I am still full sized and chesty.


Typically outing of myself in work places or the like is when I am asked about my husband or if I am married, my common answer thankfully is no longer valid. Women would look at me so puzzled when I'd say something like no it isn't leagle for me yet. And keep talking about whatever the other topic was and then you'd see some pieces start to fit. At some point they comesback around to i never would have thought you were gay. At one point I was managing a restaurant and my love at the time brought our son in, and when one of the girls on staff put it together she got all excited about how kinky I must be under my disgise.

I have never been shy or ashamed about who I love or how, I like shocking people and reminding them that no you can't always tell, I don't like when men mostly former bosses decides that I just needed a real man or vitamin D so they feel entitled to group touch or feel. I have learned to avoid or duck not to get into that type of situation or they are that insistent I remind them why they want to leave me the fuck alone.

Sorry my brain wandered....

It would be nice to be recognized counterparts or cohorts, it's makes the world not so big when it does happen, but it only seems to happen when I am holding someone's hand.

[akiza]

it can be frustrating i don't know if it's because i give a cold exterior or i'm too much weird/analytical or straight i swear boys can tell stupid things when they're interessed it's 'cause of one of them i've been nice and haven't insulted him maybe a little that i met my first soft butch and her sister who want to have a go with me but they have a bond and i'm afraid to cause problems why encounter always come with hetero guys! breves i'd try some clothes once i travel in the capital maybe it'll work

[Slow breath]

A year ago, an 11 year relationship I was in abruptly ended. I was devastated, and one of the first things I did was cut my waist length hair off. I felt like I had removed my femme veil. I have not changed my personal style, but having an asymmetrical feminine haircut made me more visible than I've ever been.

So it has made me wonder, how much of our identity as femme is in our hair style?

I, like many, always passed as a heterosexual female. My new hair, not so much. I get the nods, the strangers chatting me up at public events, etc. that did NOT happen before, unless the look/glance/energies collided. My single self is enjoying the attention. But has made me very reflective on just how invisible I was as a femme with long hair.

As I am currently dating, I also wonder, and often ask my butch dates, their opinion on hair. Lol. Seems as though it's a non issue, because femme is femme, or so I am told, but I still currently feel as though my hair was a huge part of my identity.

Still loving my shorter hairstyle, btw.

[Wiccanfemme]

This is something that I constantly struggle with. I feel as though if I don't have rainbow jewelry clearly visible or a pride shirt on that everyone just assumes that I am straight. I hate hearing the dismissive oh she just hasn't found the right guy yet. I think I am very obvious when there is a butch around. That energy draws me like a magnet, I can't seem to drag my eyes away and any friends that I happen to be with instantly see my attraction. I think I must turn all shades of red and get so flustered. I don't know if the butches really see me though. Sometimes I worry that my look lingering a little too long might be taken the wrong way and they might feel like I'm judging them or looking at them in disapproval even though that is definitely not the case. I think that I stood out more when my hair was shorter and a violet red color, it was a feminine hairstyle but much shorter than it is now. I think it made me look a little more punkish instead of girl next door with my longer dark hair now. Sometimes I'm at a loss and wish I could just go up and tap the butch on the shoulder and say hello do you see me? I think you're hot! Lol. So not appropriate but what's a girl to do?

[gotoseagrl]

I've had shorter hair before, but nothing above the shoulders much. I was, as I am now, very girlie, so it didn't make me feel or present as any less femme. But now my hair is longer than it's ever been and while I keep thinking of cutting it again, I can't seem to let it go. It annoys me sometimes, but for some reason I like it too. I think it does make me feel even more feminine, if that's possible. Maybe the mermaid in me.


A year ago, an 11 year relationship I was in abruptly ended. I was devastated, and one of the first things I did was cut my waist length hair off. I felt like I had removed my femme veil. I have not changed my personal style, but having an asymmetrical feminine haircut made me more visible than I've ever been.

So it has made me wonder, how much of our identity as femme is in our hair style?

I, like many, always passed as a heterosexual female. My new hair, not so much. I get the nods, the strangers chatting me up at public events, etc. that did NOT happen before, unless the look/glance/energies collided. My single self is enjoying the attention. But has made me very reflective on just how invisible I was as a femme with long hair.

As I am currently dating, I also wonder, and often ask my butch dates, their opinion on hair. Lol. Seems as though it's a non issue, because femme is femme, or so I am told, but I still currently feel as though my hair was a huge part of my identity.

Still loving my shorter hairstyle, btw.

[gotoseagrl]

I have sort of the opposite reaction. When I see one, especially when I can somehow sense they might be trans, I turn red hot too, but I avoid all eye contact as much as possible. There was one who was cashier the other day and I couldn't really raise my head to eye level, and I felt bad about after I left, which was of course quickly cause apparently I don't know to act right lol. So this either makes it even more obvious or makes me appear to be offensive or just nuts. If they only knew, which hopefully they don't, in the moment.

This is something that I constantly struggle with. I feel as though if I don't have rainbow jewelry clearly visible or a pride shirt on that everyone just assumes that I am straight. I hate hearing the dismissive oh she just hasn't found the right guy yet. I think I am very obvious when there is a butch around. That energy draws me like a magnet, I can't seem to drag my eyes away and any friends that I happen to be with instantly see my attraction. I think I must turn all shades of red and get so flustered. I don't know if the butches really see me though.

[*Anya*]

Hair.

I have pretty much always had long hair.

When I was a little girl, my mom would set my hair in strips of rags so I would have long, Shirley Temple ringlets.

One time, in the late 90's, I wanted to try short hair for the first time in my life. I went to Vidal Sassoon. It was a terrific haircut and I got a lot of compliments.

It did not help me in the femme visibility department. I did not get any butch or femme head nods as though I was suddenly recognizable. (The only thing that has ever made a difference in terms of recognition, has been when I have been out and about with a butch girlfriend).

I did not like my short hair. I felt like a boy. I really felt different. I did not feel like me when I looked in the mirror.

I grew it out and never have had really short hair since. Not the kind of hair where my ears showed or my neck would show (different than if I put it in a bun or in a ponytail).

It's not that I think femmes need long hair, I do not. Femmes are Femmes no matter our length of hair.

This particular femme feels "normal" and it feels right for me to have long hair.

[Gemme]

A year ago, an 11 year relationship I was in abruptly ended. I was devastated, and one of the first things I did was cut my waist length hair off. I felt like I had removed my femme veil. I have not changed my personal style, but having an asymmetrical feminine haircut made me more visible than I've ever been.

So it has made me wonder, how much of our identity as femme is in our hair style?

I, like many, always passed as a heterosexual female. My new hair, not so much. I get the nods, the strangers chatting me up at public events, etc. that did NOT happen before, unless the look/glance/energies collided. My single self is enjoying the attention. But has made me very reflective on just how invisible I was as a femme with long hair.

As I am currently dating, I also wonder, and often ask my butch dates, their opinion on hair. Lol. Seems as though it's a non issue, because femme is femme, or so I am told, but I still currently feel as though my hair was a huge part of my identity.

Still loving my shorter hairstyle, btw.

Is it the chicken or the egg?

Did your confidence come from your hair cut or did your hair cut come from the confidence in being free and desire to try new things?

I would love to rock a pixie cut but I do not have the shape of face that can pull it off. I'm with Anya in the longer hair club, but mostly because it's how I hide my face when I feel the need. And I like the whispery brush of it against my bare lower back.

Shorter hair would cut down on my salon bills, though. Massively.

[Femmewench]

Please take one if you should run across a 2 x 4 butch .....

http://www.bearcreeklumber.com/ORIGINALS/Photogallery/ayc/AYC2X4D&BTRCLRS4STANIN2.jpg

Extras are always appreciated.

[homoe]

Extras are always appreciated.

YIKES, one of those upside the head could hurt a butch...........:blink:

[Femmewench]

[QUOTE=Slow breath;1145828]...one of the first things I did was cut my waist length hair off. I felt like I had removed my femme veil. I have not changed my personal style, but having an asymmetrical feminine haircut made me more visible than I've ever been.

So it has made me wonder, how much of our identity as femme is in our hair style?

...But has made me very reflective on just how invisible I was as a femme with long hair.
_________________________________________________

My hair has been short since I had it cut from waist length to pixie length in my early twenties. About 8 years ago I asked my hair dresser why my previously straight-as-straw hair had developed a wave. She asked me if I'd had chemo. No. She then told me I was going into menopause. She was right.

The gift of menopause is wavy hair which only becomes apparent once it's shoulder length. Since I'm in love with the wave, I'm growing it out for the first time in a long time just for me. I'm rediscovering the sensuous feel of my hair brushing against my back and shoulders. Long hair or short, I'm femme. Longer just ups the power in femme for me; that was a pleasant surprise.

[Femmewench]

YIKES, one of those upside the head could hurt a butch...........:blink:

And get your attention. I'll kiss the boo boo.

[girl_dee]

Looking forward to some community time and being a visible femme !!

[dark_crystal]

I was thinking about this yesterday.

I never was comfortable with "the closet" and have always disclosed my ID to virtually everyone, even in the late 80s and early 90s

And my straight family and friends would be like "god it's nobody's business why do you keep putting it out there people don't care about your sex life"

But the fact is this is only true for butches. When you're a femme, esp a 20-something blonde with DDs, every man is interested in your sex life, and being coy about it is no safer than being open.

And i could never stand being closeted around my female peers either, at work or school, because a lot of times people would start bonding with you and start saying how nice it would be to go shopping or whatever and i always needed to make them aware of my status before we became friends.

Because what if we did go shopping and do lunch and mani pedis or whatever and you didn't find out until months later and then felt betrayed and/or denounced me to everyone we knew?

So there were people who felt i was "hung up" or "in your face" about my sexuality because i talked about and none of their other gay friends did that.

Yes but all of your other gay friends are either androgynous females or effeminate boys, they don't HAVE to talk about it.

And if you are an attractive femme who has been open about her orientation at work and then you find yourself sexually harrassed? Two different managers told me i brought it on myself by letting these men find out i was gay

It sounds so easy to straight people-- just don't say anything. Like work at a place for years and years and just avoid giving direct answers to any relationship questions and don't participate in conversations about relationships. How hard could that be?

[Femmadian]

So earlier this year I cut my hair in a pretty significant (for me) way, donating something like 14 inches and going from waist length curls to a "lob" and just recently I got new glasses which, when I tried them on in store, I immediately thought, "wow, these are so gay." They remind me a bit of Alex Vause's glasses but with a more flattering bridge. So, needless to say, I got them. :p

And now, new hair and fashionably nerdy glasses in tow, I'm getting the nod and knowing looks so much more! I'm still very Femme-presenting and am stylistically a long way from the pink haired, amply tattooed style that's kind of seen as the default for gay women in certain urban areas, and yet... I've actually had other lesbians seek me out in town because I "didn't look straight" and if I am friendly to a more obviously gay-looking woman I don't know yet, they are so much more receptive to the entire interaction. It's kind of blowing my mind to see first hand the difference in how I'm treated from the get-go and also makes me realize just how cut off I was from in-person community before.

I'd be curious to hear about the specifics of what has worked for you guys over the years, if anything surprised you, and if you ever had a time when your visibility spiked as a result of incidental changes.

[CherylNYC]

So earlier this year I cut my hair in a pretty significant (for me) way, donating something like 14 inches and going from waist length curls to a "lob" and just recently I got new glasses which, when I tried them on in store, I immediately thought, "wow, these are so gay." They remind me a bit of Alex Vause's glasses but with a more flattering bridge. So, needless to say, I got them. :p

And now, new hair and fashionably nerdy glasses in tow, I'm getting the nod and knowing looks so much more! I'm still very Femme-presenting and am stylistically a long way from the pink haired, amply tattooed style that's kind of seen as the default for gay women in certain urban areas, and yet... I've actually had other lesbians seek me out in town because I "didn't look straight" and if I am friendly to a more obviously gay-looking woman I don't know yet, they are so much more receptive to the entire interaction. It's kind of blowing my mind to see first hand the difference in how I'm treated from the get-go and also makes me realize just how cut off I was from in-person community before.

I'd be curious to hear about the specifics of what has worked for you guys over the years, if anything surprised you, and if you ever had a time when your visibility spiked as a result of incidental changes.

Yup. A black leather motorcycle jacket made me visible. It was like turning on a beacon light. I felt the power the first time I wore one and I've never forgotten it. My motorcycle and rainbow sticker bedecked motorcycle helmet finished the job. Now that I own a car and no longer ride all year I often have none of the above signifiers on or around me. As a result I'm now presumed straight in all sorts of circumstances, but I'm somehow seldom aware that I'm being misidentified. That said, I'm told that once I open my mouth and start speaking I'm SO gay.

[charley]

Well, can hardly move after one of my Xmas feasts; it was a lot of fun, and sat with a friend, and we made jokes and all, and laughed and laughed, and I guess we were the loudest there, and eventually, two women came by and asked if they could join us, to which we agreed. We all had a grand time, chatting, and laughing, and munching (altho the Brussels sprouts were not cooked enough - al dente smh - and were actually a tad too hard) and even though there were loads of sweets, they were out of pie!!!!! (I came late - hangs head in shame!!!)

One of the women left, and the other stayed, and finally, she got an opportunity to mention to me and addressing me [as we were sitting opposite], well the word "butch" slipped out of her mouth, and I nodded yes, as in, you are right. Then it occurred to me and so I said, "Hey, how come you are aware of that word?"

And she said, "I'm a lesbian", and since we were all still laughing and joking, she gestured with her left hand and made a big L with her thumb and forefinger over her forehead, and said something to the effect of having to wear a big L printed there since no one would know she was a lesbian, to which we all had a good laugh... femme invisibility...

[clementinefemme]

I don't know if this is a good place to post this, but I had some new friends from work over tonight and they were shocked when I explained to them my identity as a femme lesbian. They expected me to be into other feminine women and expressed clear disappointment when I talked about what I find attractive in partners. When I showed them photos of my celebrity crushes, they didn't hold back their disapproval.

They kept pressuring me to admit that I had liked/dated "regular" women before, but I have not. I don't know how to articulate it exactly, but it was deeply uncomfortable. I felt very isolated and alienated from the group because they made it clear I wasn't "normal" to them. I guess I'm used to this experience in a way, since part of being gender-conforming and straight-passing is the need to repeatedly come out, but this felt particularly hurtful because I liked and trusted these women.

They really did make me feel that the way I experience attraction is wrong and needs "fixing."

I think this is why I feel very reluctant to discuss this topic with anyone, because every time I don't get the understanding and respect that I want.

If anyone has dealt with this before, I would appreciate your insight.

[clementinefemme]

Also, they asked me deeply invasive sexual questions, which I don't think they would have done had I been "normal" to them. We don't know each other well enough to have those kinds of conversations at this point and I don't like that my identity is immediately sexualized in their eyes.

Instead of getting to know me a person, they were hyper-fixated on what I do in the bedroom, which made me feel like even more of a freak. I just tried to deflect the questions, but I could tell that upset them.

[CherylNYC]

Also, they asked me deeply invasive sexual questions, which I don't think they would have done had I been "normal" to them. We don't know each other well enough to have those kinds of conversations at this point and I don't like that my identity is immediately sexualized in their eyes.

Instead of getting to know me a person, they were hyper-fixated on what I do in the bedroom, which made me feel like even more of a freak. I just tried to deflect the questions, but I could tell that upset them.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I've been in a similar situation, but I don't have any words of wisdom. On occasion I've answered those kinds of questions and judgements with "When was the last time someone questioned the validity of YOUR preferred 'type'?", and "When was the last time someone asked you whether you or your partner 'wears the pants' in bed?" That shuts them up, but it doesn't stop them from judging me silently. I once caught an extremely negative reaction to a matter-of-fact mention of butch/femme dynamics to a straight woman who I used to work with. (It came up in a conversation which I didn't initiate.) She never looked me in the eye again, and that was the last time she hired me.

I hope you find better, less judgmental friends.

[Kätzchen]

Also, they asked me deeply invasive sexual questions, which I don't think they would have done had I been "normal" to them. We don't know each other well enough to have those kinds of conversations at this point and I don't like that my identity is immediately sexualized in their eyes.

Instead of getting to know me a person, they were hyper-fixated on what I do in the bedroom, which made me feel like even more of a freak. I just tried to deflect the questions, but I could tell that upset them.

I'd say that person handed you an unexpected "gift" in being able to identify problematic behavioral issues.

Anybody, whether it's in person or someone you interact with on the internet or social media website, who is, as you stated in your post above, "hyper-fixated on what you do in the bedroom" or "immediately sexualizes your identity" is handing you a big giant Red Flag about them personally.

Consider yourself fortunate that they revealed this aspect about themselves because it saves you from any number of unfortunate scenarios between yourself and the person who reveals these types of problematic behavioral issues.

I like it that you place your own personal safety and security first. Consider your observations about this type of individual as a job well done.

PS/ welcome to the community.