The House of Stone...

[SilverStoneFemme]

This is a thread for all stones, butches and femmes, who would like a place to gather and chat. It's also a place for those who consider themselves to be friends and family of stones, and a place for those who would like to chat with and/or learn more information about the stone identity.

Let me be clear on the definition of stones:

*1. A stone butch is a person who is masculine in thoughts and actions, whose personal style is masculine, whose only partner is a stonefemme (or a femme who can accept stone butches for who and what they are), who does not wish to be touched in a feminizing manner, who considers the sexual satisfaction of hys partner first, and who does not wish hys genitals to be touched and hy is cock-centric, in that hys sexual style is expressed mainly through hys butchcock in a masculine manner.

*2. A stone femme is a person who is feminine in thoughts and action, whose personal style is feminine, whose only partner is a stone butch, whose sexual style accepts the sexual boundaries and limitations of any stonebutch with grace and understanding, who never pushes the limits and boundaries of any stone butch and who loves butchcock and the masculinity of stone butches it represents.

If your definition of stone butch and stone femme is #1 and #2 above you encouraged to join our group.

There may be people who define stone butch and stone femme in other ways and they have the right to do so. However, they also have an an opportunity here at BFP to start another group according to their own definitions.

[cuddlyfemme]

Count me in! I'm totally a Stone Femme and proud of it!

[Electrocell]

Stone butch here.

[SilverStoneFemme]

Hello, cuddlyfemme and ElectroCell, nice to have you here and i hope to hear from lots more stones.

[SilverStoneFemme]

I joined BFP back in 2010 and had lots of posts and reps, but I guess my inactivity has brought those figures down to 0.

But that's alright, they'll come back up once I get rolling on the website once again.

[Electrocell]

I joined BFP back in 2010 and had lots of posts and reps, but I guess my inactivity has brought those figures down to 0.

But that's alright, they'll come back up once I get rolling on the website once again.

Welcome back .

[SilverStoneFemme]

Thanx, i hope to be around a bit longer this trip....lol....:bow:....

[diamondrose]

thank you for starting this thread. I am a stone femme

[aishah]

welcome back :) our definitions aren't exactly the same, but i'm a stone femme who is partnered with a stone butch. thank you for starting this thread :)

[SilverStoneFemme]

welcome back :) our definitions aren't exactly the same, but i'm a stone femme who is partnered with a stone butch. thank you for starting this thread :)


I was on a website somewhere on the net and a butch came along who thought the meaning of stone butch meant hy didn't have a girlfriend.

As long as your definitions are along the lines of the original post, and not something as weird as the one in the above paragraph....lol....it's all good.....:bow:....welcome.....

[SweetJane]

Hi, I'm glad you started this threat. Mingling out in the wider lesbian community lately has made me feel a need to be among my own kind. Thank you.

[SilverStoneFemme]

Hi, I'm glad you started this threat. Mingling out in the wider lesbian community lately has made me feel a need to be among my own kind. Thank you.

That's exactly why i started this thread. It's so difficult to find stones out and about in the queer community, especially here in the midwest. i was starved for stone contacts, and here At BFP we have a place to come together......:cheerleader:....

Edited for typoitis

[tiggs]

Hi SSF, thanks for starting this thread both my Daddy and I are stone and as it seems we have the same way of defining O/our stone as you do. Hopefully this thread will take off.

[mustangjeano]

welcome back :) our definitions aren't exactly the same, but i'm a stone femme who is partnered with a stone butch. thank you for starting this thread :)

Great to see this thread, thanks.

[skeeter_01]

when i heard the definition of "stone butch"...it was like finding a missing puzzle piece...all of the sudden...things made sence...

unfortunately...i have yet to meet a stone femme in person...met plenty of them on here and other sites...but it seems that the femmes that i date all want to "change" me...

"do you think someday i can do x,y and z to you"?

"uhhhhhhhhhh....NO"....

i would LOVE to meet a stone femme...!!! i would especially love to DATE a stone femme!! ;)

thanks so much for this thread!!

skeet

[Silverseastar]

I'm not exclusively a stone femme...not sure if I fit in at all here. But the defining thing for me is respecting my partner's identity and sexual desires. I don't feel a need to change anyone and have successfully dated stone butches.

People are a package deal imho. Trying to change anyone is a bad idea.

I do think it's awesome to create a space where those who are clear on what they like can congregate though :)

[Electrocell]

Have to say your meaning of a stone butch pretty well sums it up for me. I don't like being touched in a feminizing way and I always make sure my partner is satisfied sexually before I consider my own needs. It gives me pleasure to give her pleasure.

[SilverStoneFemme]

Hi SSF, thanks for starting this thread both my Daddy and I are stone and as it seems we have the same way of defining O/our stone as you do. Hopefully this thread will take off.

Thanks for coming by, tiggs. i'm glad you've come into the thread. Hope you and your Daddy meet lots of other stones here.....(f)(f)(f).....

[SilverStoneFemme]

when i heard the definition of "stone butch"...it was like finding a missing puzzle piece...all of the sudden...things made sence...

unfortunately...i have yet to meet a stone femme in person...met plenty of them on here and other sites...but it seems that the femmes that i date all want to "change" me...

"do you think someday i can do x,y and z to you"?

"uhhhhhhhhhh....NO"....

i would LOVE to meet a stone femme...!!! i would especially love to DATE a stone femme!! ;)

thanks so much for this thread!!

skeet

Hi skeet.....sorry for the bad experiences but those femmes who want to change you really don't understand the whys and wherefores of a stonebutch.

Don't ever let anyone change who you are unless YOU want to. Boundaries are boundaries and limitations are just that......lines that don't get crossed ever unless YOU want it.

You hang around this place long enough and a sweet thang will come along who will GET you. Don't you worry. We're out here we just need to be "found."....lol......(f)(f)(f)

[SilverStoneFemme]

I'm not exclusively a stone femme...not sure if I fit in at all here. But the defining thing for me is respecting my partner's identity and sexual desires. I don't feel a need to change anyone and have successfully dated stone butches.

People are a package deal imho. Trying to change anyone is a bad idea.

I do think it's awesome to create a space where those who are clear on what they like can congregate though :)

Hi, Silverseastar, nice to have you join us here.

As far as being a stonefemme, as long as you have respect for a butch's sexual boundaries and limitations that's all that matters. You have the heart of a stonefemme even if you're also able to do that lesbian thing......lol.....*shutter*.....sorry, even thinking of that makes me shiver.....can't help it, i'm a hard core stonefemme......:bow:......

[SilverStoneFemme]

Have to say your meaning of a stone butch pretty well sums it up for me. I don't like being touched in a feminizing way and I always make sure my partner is satisfied sexually before I consider my own needs. It gives me pleasure to give her pleasure.

And we stonefemmes get that, Electrocell.....matter of fact, most stonefemmes have our own set of sexual boundaries and limitations on what sexual activites we will do to our stonebutches.

There are things i won't do, sexually, on an every day basis. Occasionally, ok. But all the time? Nope. That's that lesbian sex and i'm not a lesbian. i'm a queer stonefemme......:bow:.....

[SilverStoneFemme]

i'm so sorry it took me so long to get to the thread today. i had a dental appt and as i'm getting my work done at the local University dental school it takes waaaay longer than in a dentist's office.

However, i'm paying a whole lot less that i would to a dentist in practice. And the work is pretty much the same quality. All the work is supervised by the instructors, and the 2 crowns i'm getting have most of the work done on the inside. It's the lab who creates the crowns who is responsible for the quality.

It's all good, but my jaw is a bit on the sore side.....(f)(f)(f)....

[SilverStoneFemme]

i'm gonna tgo take two tylenol and see y'all tomorrow. i hope everyone has a good Friday.....:bow:.....

[SilverStoneFemme]

One last thing.......thanks to all who sent me Thanks and Reps. i totally appreciate it.....:gimmehug:....big hugs to all......

OK, i'm off to get this jaw some relief......

[*Anya*]

You have the heart of a stonefemme even if you're also able to do that lesbian thing......lol.....*shutter*.....sorry, even thinking of that makes me shiver.....can't help it, i'm a hard core stonefemme......:bow:......



There are things i won't do, sexually, on an every day basis. Occasionally, ok. But all the time? Nope. That's that lesbian sex and i'm not a lesbian. i'm a queer stonefemme......:bow:.....

These two posts have more than a hint of distaste.

TOS for the site stresses tolerance for all identies.

You can be true to your own identity without making negative comments about "that lesbian thing" and "that's lesbian sex" that makes you shudder "shutter" per your post.

Comments like that really bother me.

[aishah]

thanks, anya.

for my partner and i...our boundaries around sex shift and for us stone is deeply tied to our emotions as well. i respect that other people define and experience stone differently, and i love being a queer stone femme.

but we do have many lesbian id'ed folks on the planet, including lesbian stone femmes. and people who like all different kinds of sex acts. there's nothing wrong with not liking them...but showing disgust towards other folks' ids and sex acts is not okay, imho.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Hi, Silverseastar, nice to have you join us here.

As far as being a stonefemme, as long as you have respect for a butch's sexual boundaries and limitations that's all that matters. You have the heart of a stonefemme even if you're also able to do that lesbian thing......lol.....*shutter*.....sorry, even thinking of that makes me shiver.....can't help it, i'm a hard core stonefemme......:bow:......


I get we all have our preferences but it's totally uncool to refer to lesbian sex and shutter like there's something wrong with that kind of sex.

Totally uncool!

[princessbelle]

SilverStoneFemme,

I know this is being addressed....but.

Not only are there lesbian stone femmes here, there are lesbian stone butches here as well. I happened to be partnered with one. Not all lesbians have sex the same way. We are quite diverse.

Not your keeper, just trying to offer a little friendly advice...

There are more flavors of IDs here than Baskin Robbins has flavors of ice creme.

http://dl10.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1471/1471940ue6cnvo04f.jpg (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

[Electrocell]

How many flavors is that lol? HMmmmmmmmmm baskin robbins sounds good about now.



SilverStoneFemme,

I know this is being addressed....but.

Not only are there lesbian stone femmes here, there are lesbian stone butches here as well. I happened to be partnered with one. Not all lesbians have sex the same way. We are quite diverse.

Not your keeper, just trying to offer a little friendly advice...

There are more flavors of IDs here than Baskin Robbins has flavors of ice creme.

http://dl10.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1471/1471940ue6cnvo04f.jpg (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

[CherylNYC]

SilverStoneFemme,

I know this is being addressed....but.

Not only are there lesbian stone femmes here, there are lesbian stone butches here as well. I happened to be partnered with one. Not all lesbians have sex the same way. We are quite diverse.

Not your keeper, just trying to offer a little friendly advice...

There are more flavors of IDs here than Baskin Robbins has flavors of ice creme.

http://dl10.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1471/1471940ue6cnvo04f.jpg (http://www.glitter-graphics.com)

Yup. I are one. Lesbian stonefemme here. I think I may be one of the rarest flavours.

[Jess]

I can not speak for any other stone butch out there, just myself. I would never pretend to try to define a label much less put such limitations on it as the OP has done here. After as many years in this community as I have been around, I can very easily point to the number of times someones ass gets handed to them for even considering doing that, just as I can count the number of times I have seen these definitions/ labels change from user to user.

I am, by my understanding of the labels/ definitions used historically in this community... a stone butch . I am a human being whose energy whom resides in a female body. I fuck feminine women. I do not get penetrated nor do I allow my body or the touching of it, to be done in a feminizing manner. While I am more comfortable being called by male pronouns , as for me, that reads "on line" that whomever I am speaking to feels that energy... I know that in this world ( my world I live in 24/7) I am seen as a woman as many times as I am seen as male/ masculine. I don't feel exactly comfortable with the OP only using "hy" when describing stone butch, as I know some stone butches whom prefer "she".

As far as "lesbian" goes. THIS stone butch entity is still living in a woman's body and fucks women. I am quite sure as long as I will remain alive, there are at least four dictionaries that will define women who fuck women as ( drum roll, wait for it...) Lesbian.

The pretty groovy ( and sometimes confusing) part of being part of a "queer" community, is that we are allowed and encouraged to define or label.. or NOT, ourselves. We are encouraged to NOT fall into the definitions placed on us by the majority of society that has held rule over our bodies ( and to some degree: minds) for evah! The other pretty groovy thing, is that we can and will look at one another and say, YOU, dear community member, do not get to define that for me either.

In the original opening post, we were asked to only take part in this thread if we fell into the definition of "stone" that was presented by the original poster.
Had it not continued on to add the tasteless comments regarding "lesbians", I may have fallen into that definition. Since it did "go there", I... suppose... I , as a stone, butch, freaky sex lovin, kinky whip wielding, non patchouli smellin, boot wearin, hat tippin, door openin, worshiper of high femmes ( NOT high maint, mind you) do not belong here and will respect that in the future.

[girl_dee]

2 definitions? really? i really have issues with people who tell people they can't be part of the group if they don't fit, what threads they can be part of and if they don't fit in, to go somewhere else. There are a bajillion ways to slice what we all are here and excluding people who may have something to offer does not feel right to me.


Another thing,

The word "feminize"

feminize |ˈfeməˌnīz|
verb [ trans. ]

make (something) more characteristic of or associated with women : as office roles changed, clerical work was increasingly feminized.
induce female sexual characteristics in a male.


This is SO reminiscent of the *melting the stone* thread on one of the other sites. As far as my opinion goes, being a non group member (i will never conform to labels/definitions) i don't get how anyone can *feminize* you no matter HOW they touch, talk or look at you without your permission. No one could ever *masculinize* me no matter how they fucked me. i appreciate that people have boundaries and we all do, and we love those who do, but the word feminize feels like something bad to me when used along these lines.

IMO butch is butch, femme is femme no matter what we are doing. No one loses their butch/femme card because of a sex act in my book. My book is not anyone else's book i respect that.

Carry on with your *group* !

[spritzerJ]

Oh what an interesting direction this thread has taken. I do hope we can remain open as a community ending up with a comfortable stone place to chat. And I imagine if we don't, no worries, there are lots of places to chat on this planet. I appreciate the variance in the community here. It is a treasure.

As for myself, I am sitting here going ooh another stone thread yippee! Because I wanted one. My own journey discovering, exploring and wondering about what my sexual expression "home" is leading me this way. And I am a reader I do like reading about stone (butch and femme) looking for a clue on the just right words for my feelings. Haven't quiet found those words yet.

I am thankful for the stone's who still claim lesbian as part of them. I guess I think of lesbian much like my maiden name. It is so much a part of me, my past, present and family of origin I don't want to give it up just to move into a new commitment with myself.

[morningstar55]

morning stoners
its a somewhat cool , cloudy morning here in Taylor Mi...
wish i was home.
there's a gay bingo event happening there tonight..... thats calling my name. lol

ok this is my 1st time viewing the house of stone.. i do recall this thread on another site.
annnnd seems like there are some interesting things to read and catch up on.
mean time....... have a great weekend everyone. :)

[Electrocell]

As far as feminizing to me it means I don't like to be touched in my genital area or have anything inserted in me or my breast touched this is my preference because I was molested as a child. Just as some women don't go for going down on a woman or inserting her fingers in a woman that is their preference. I maybe wrong but I think the latter is what SilverStoneFemme was refering to as lesbian sex. It might not be politically correct term to use but some of us may not be as gifted with words as others. What people do in their bedroooms or wherever,with whomever is their business.

[*Anya*]

These two posts have more than a hint of distaste.

TOS for the site stresses tolerance for all identies.

You can be true to your own identity without making negative comments about "that lesbian thing" and "that's lesbian sex" that makes you shudder "shutter" per your post.

Comments like that really bother me.

As far as feminizing to me it means I don't like to be touched in my genital area or have anything inserted in me or my breast touched this is my preference because I was molested as a child. Just as some women don't go for going down on a woman or inserting her fingers in a woman that is their preference. I maybe wrong but I think the latter is what SilverStoneFemme was refering to as lesbian sex. It might not be politically correct term to use but some of us may not be as gifted with words as others. What people do in their bedroooms or wherever,with whomever is their business.

Electrocell, my point was exactly that. We can be tolerant of each other, have our own sexual boundaries and preferences without any need to make comments such as "shiver", "shudder", put down "that lesbian sex thing" or make snide comments about how another identity chooses to express their sexuality.

That is strictly where other posters and I were coming from.

My ex, with whom I lived with for 19 years was strictly a stone butch for the first 10 years of our relationship. No, I did not try to change her but always honored her boundaries. That they shifted a tiny bit after 10 years, was her idea and choice on very, very rare occasions. My own identity as a lesbian femme remains regardless of how my partner identifies.

I tell you this as I am not ignorant of the stone identity and accept wherever anyone on the Planet is at in terms of theirs.

I simply believe that there is no need to make intolerant comments about other identities or sexual practices, while honoring who and what our own personal identity is.

That is it in a nutshell.

[The_Lady_Snow]

As far as feminizing to me it means I don't like to be touched in my genital area or have anything inserted in me or my breast touched this is my preference because I was molested as a child. Just as some women don't go for going down on a woman or inserting her fingers in a woman that is their preference. I maybe wrong but I think the latter is what SilverStoneFemme was refering to as lesbian sex. It might not be politically correct term to use but some of us may not be as gifted with words as others. What people do in their bedroooms or wherever,with whomever is their business.



I disagree on your take of the OP's wording. Her use of "that lesbian thing" followed by an LOL anddd a "shutter" is not lesbian friendly references for "me" and it seems other folks.


She even went as far as to say

"that lesbian sex"

Clarifying she wasn't no lesbian.

Allll that led me to conclude she's kinda eeewing lesbian sex like there's something wrong with it.


Can we stop ewwwing, using derogatory terms against others when stating our desires.

[SilverStoneFemme]

i see the word warriors are out in force.

i dislike sushi......*shutter*......even thinking about it makes me shiver.....can't help it i'm a hardcore cooked fish eater.

That someone could take MY preference about what I LIKE AND DISLIKE and apply it to a whole community of people is unbelievable. my personal dislike for something doesn't demean those who have a preference for whatever it is that i don't care for.

i have the right to have my own preferences. If someone else dislikes stone sex, and finds it distasteful, and the vast majority of folx in the queer community AREN'T stone, that is not something i take personally. It simply means to each their own and one (wo)man's meat is another (wo)man's poison.

i made it clear that i was referring to MYSELF. Lesbian sex is not something i will ever do because, FOR ME, it's distasteful. Because i am a stonefemme.

Many folx find stone sex distasteful. They are entitled to their own personal preferences....and this is not something i would ever take away from them. Let them have whatever they think is appropriate FOR THEM.

i don't demean others for they personal preferences.......don't demean me for mine.

Should i get kicked off from this website, then so be it. i'll accept it. However, i did so standing up for my own personal beliefs.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by SilverStoneFemme

You have the heart of a stonefemme even if you're also able to do that lesbian thing......lol.....*shutter*.....sorry, even thinking of that makes me shiver.....can't help it, i'm a hard core stonefemme............
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverStoneFemme


There are things i won't do, sexually, on an every day basis. Occasionally, ok. But all the time? Nope. That's that lesbian sex and i'm not a lesbian. i'm a queer stonefemme...........






Your wording in the first post was not speaking of your preferences and you insinuated it seems with a shiver and a shutter like it's not ok or something is wrong with it.

People can state their desires without having to be icked out on what others do.









i see the word warriors are out in force.

i dislike sushi......*shutter*......even thinking about it makes me shiver.....can't help it i'm a hardcore cooked fish eater.

That someone could take MY preference about what I LIKE AND DISLIKE and apply it to a whole community of people is unbelievable. my personal dislike for something doesn't demean those who have a preference for whatever it is that i don't care for.

i have the right to have my own preferences. If someone else dislikes stone sex, and finds it distasteful, and the vast majority of folx in the queer community AREN'T stone, that is not something i take personally. It simply means to each their own and one (wo)man's meat is another (wo)man's poison.

i made it clear that i was referring to MYSELF. Lesbian sex is not something i will ever do because, FOR ME, it's distasteful. Because i am a stonefemme.

Many folx find stone sex distasteful. They are entitled to their own personal preferences....and this is not something i would ever take away from them. Let them have whatever they think is appropriate FOR THEM.

i don't demean others for they personal preferences.......don't demean me for mine.

Should i get kicked off from this website, then so be it. i'll accept it. However, i did so standing up for my own personal beliefs.

[The_Lady_Snow]

It wasn't till your second post that you said you were not a lesbian. I'm still not sure why you would refer to sex (lesbian sex) as:

"that lesbian thing......lol.."

I'm still trying to figure out the *thing* lesbians do that would be so LOL

Maybe you could clarify what that thing is and why it's LOL

[Julie]

SilverStone!

You begin by starting the idea of a great thread for those who are Stone and those who love them.

In your descriptor of what Stone Butch is, you put upon them the pronoun "Hy," perhaps without thinking, there might in fact be Female Identified Stone Butches. In fact, there are quite few here on the planet. By referring to the Masculine counter part of a Femme, as a Hy, you are in fact alienating those people, yet you are quite emphatic in stating this is for all Stone people.

Then you continue on in your writings, by making rather (excuse me) juvenile and inappropriate descriptors of your body language as it Shudders and Shivers at the thought of Lesbian Sex!

What exactly is Lesbian Sex?

I am a Lesbian and I have sex. I have been with Stone Butches, and still I was a Lesbian during that time. This part of my identity has never changed. I came out as a Lesbian in 1979 and will probably die a Lesbian, no matter what my preferences are during the times I fuck. Therefore, I must be having (gasp) lesbian sex.

But what is Lesbian Sex and why would you announce here on the Planet, where we are such a diverse group of queer people, that it is (kinda like Sushi) distasteful? Was this entire thread a setup? Seriously - I am sure you have read the TOS and have seen numerous postings where people get called out for putting other people down and passing judgment. You have been a member here almost 2 years. I think you mentioned you were on the other site. You must have known your words would have caused a reaction. It almost feels intentional.

Still want to know what Lesbian Sex is!

And another thing. You mention in your descriptor that Stone Butches who (my memory - forgive me) own their cocks, or something along those lines - perhaps, an extension of them. I have met many a Stone Butch who do not pack or fuck with cocks. Are they no longer Stone?

Was this thread a setup? I think it's a fair question.

Looking forward to hearing more about your definition of Lesbian Sex, Female ID Stone Butches, Those Stone Butches who do not wear cocks, etc.

Julie

[Jess]

.

i made it clear that i was referring to MYSELF. Lesbian sex is not something i will ever do because, FOR ME, it's distasteful. Because i am a stonefemme.



Hi there Miss Silver,
I am by no means a "word police".. trust me.. mine get me into enough trouble, so I am surely not going to pick apart your words or your convictions.

I , as a stone butch, had some issue with your phrasing and still do. Had a good discussion about why it bothered me so with a friend who happens to be a stonefemme.

Part of what I think you may be missing in this "conversation" with people whom have voiced less than agreeable responses to your postings, is exemplified above in the quote I pulled from your last post.

When you declare in one breath that "lesbian sex" is distasteful to you and simultaneously call yourself a stonefemme, how do you think that would make someone like Cheryl S feel, who has previously stated in this thread that she is stonefemme AND lesbian? I am not sure if you get my point. ( Which is really ok in the long run)

In talking to my friend, I told her the issue I have is ANYONE trying to set such parameters for ANYONE other than themselves. While, I do understand that you are trying to come from your "me" place and stating your personal feelings of distaste for certain acts, you must know that for other stones ( like myself) out there, it was a clear dis-invite to your self defined stone party.

I am all about having a space where those of us who find our intimacy in this way can gather, get to know one another, hell hook up if that be in the cards. However, it "feels" like, unless us "other" stones fall into YOUR definition, we aren't welcome. I just think that might narrow the already minute part of this community down to nothing. Good luck with whatever part of your journey you are on. I hope it bears you well.

[WolfyOne]

i see the word warriors are out in force.

i dislike sushi......*shutter*......even thinking about it makes me shiver.....can't help it i'm a hardcore cooked fish eater.

That someone could take MY preference about what I LIKE AND DISLIKE and apply it to a whole community of people is unbelievable. my personal dislike for something doesn't demean those who have a preference for whatever it is that i don't care for.

i have the right to have my own preferences. If someone else dislikes stone sex, and finds it distasteful, and the vast majority of folx in the queer community AREN'T stone, that is not something i take personally. It simply means to each their own and one (wo)man's meat is another (wo)man's poison.

i made it clear that i was referring to MYSELF. Lesbian sex is not something i will ever do because, FOR ME, it's distasteful. Because i am a stonefemme.

Many folx find stone sex distasteful. They are entitled to their own personal preferences....and this is not something i would ever take away from them. Let them have whatever they think is appropriate FOR THEM.

i don't demean others for they personal preferences.......don't demean me for mine.

Should i get kicked off from this website, then so be it. i'll accept it. However, i did so standing up for my own personal beliefs.


This old word warrior can't help but explain the difference in these 2 words

SHUTTER - 1. One that shuts, as:
a. A hinged cover or screen for a window, usually fitted with louvers.
b. A mechanical device of a camera that controls the duration of a photographic exposure, as by opening and closing to allow light coming through the lens to expose a plate or film.
2. shutters Music The movable louvers on a pipe organ, controlled by pedals, that open and close the swell box.
tr.v. shut·tered, shut·ter·ing, shut·ters
1. To furnish or close with shutters: locked the doors and shuttered the windows.
2. To cause to cease operations; close down

and

SHUDDER - 1. To shiver convulsively, as from fear or revulsion.
2. To vibrate; quiver:


So, if you're going to use the word, at least use the proper one
That is all... one word warrior is out of here

[spritzerJ]

In talking to my friend, I told her the issue I have is ANYONE trying to set such parameters for ANYONE other than themselves. While, I do understand that you are trying to come from your "me" place and stating your personal feelings of distaste for certain acts, you must know that for other stones ( like myself) out there, it was a clear dis-invite to your self defined stone party.

I am all about having a space where those of us who find our intimacy in this way can gather, get to know one another, hell hook up if that be in the cards. However, it "feels" like, unless us "other" stones fall into YOUR definition, we aren't welcome. I just think that might narrow the already minute part of this community down to nothing. Good luck with whatever part of your journey you are on. I hope it bears you well.

Jess I am thinking "here" is a welcome place for stones of all sorts of variety. The thread was started and called the house of stone, let it be your house too.

As the conversation shapes I do hope to learn much with the planet's Stone (and Stone+ more) identified people.

Olive branch to all to enjoy a wider range of conversations.

[Jess]

Jess I am thinking "here" is a welcome place for stones of all sorts of variety. The thread was started and called the house of stone, let it be your house too.

As the conversation shapes I do hope to learn much with the planet's Stone (and Stone+ more) identified people.

Olive branch to all to enjoy a wider range of conversations.


Thanks Jenna. I appreciate your intentions very much. I too hope it becomes a place/space for us to talk about stuff that does pertain to stone identified folks, who carry whatever other identifiers they add on to "stone". It is a very small fraction of the community and out end of the pool is rather shallow.

I will however, wait for an invite from the OP.

thank you again :rrose:

[spritzerJ]

Thanks Jenna. I appreciate your intentions very much. I too hope it becomes a place/space for us to talk about stuff that does pertain to stone identified folks, who carry whatever other identifiers they add on to "stone". It is a very small fraction of the community and out end of the pool is rather shallow.

I will however, wait for an invite from the OP.

thank you again :rrose:

Jess, you are welcome and thank you. I do hope the invite comes. Meanwhile I think we may need a digging crew to just make the pool as deep as we want it. :hangloose:

[Random]

i don't get how anyone can *feminize* you no matter HOW they touch, talk or look at you without your permission. No one could ever *masculinize* me no matter how they fucked me. i appreciate that people have boundaries and we all do, and we love those who do, but the word feminize feels like something bad to me when used along these lines.



Dee,

I'm faultering at starting, so please excuse me if I come off abrupt..(It's a flowers for Algernon kinda afternoon and I'm struggling to communicate effectively)

When someones outside doesn't match what's inside their head, sometime touch can effect the mental image that you are trying to reinforce.

For some reason circular motion feels feminine and strokes feel masculing.

A cupped hand feels feminine and a flat hand feels masculine..

I'm not GID nor am I a stone butch or FtM, so I don't know why it happens, but it does...

If my ex was leaning masculine he was stone and If was touching him like he was female, it felt icky and turned him off, left him cold...

I have to be honest... Sometimes it was hard ass work making love to a stone butch...

Sometimes feminize IS not a good thing....

I'm like you... No matter how you touch me (when I allow touch) I'm a woman... but my insides match my outsides, so I don't have to build anything in my head that can be ruined by someone rubbing my clit instead of jacking me off...

[apretty]

even if you're also able to do that lesbian thing......lol.....*shutter*.....sorry, even thinking of that makes me shiver.....can't help it, i'm a hard core stonefemme......:bow:......

You may be "stonefemme" but you're definitely rude.

[SilverStoneFemme]

Those stonebutches who do not want their genitalia to be touched find lesbian sex to be offensive to them PERSONALLY.

Those stonefemmes who do not want to touch the genitalia of their stonebutches find lesbian sex to be offensive to them PERSONALLY.

This is the reality for those stonebutches and stonefemmes who are NOT female genital receptive. We don't do lesbian sex. It's the way of many, many stones and we do NOT need anyone's permission or acceptance to be so.

For those people to come into OUR house and tell us we're wrong for how we think, what we feel about our OWN personal sexual activity, is beyond arrogance.

This is the way for many, many stones. You don't have to like it.

If anyone is being demeaned here, it's us.

[The_Lady_Snow]

But that's not what you said.

Should I quote you again?

Plus you've not addressed that you forgot not allll stones are hy.he:)

PS

one shouldn't speak for others:) you're stone is nowhere near my stone

[SilverStoneFemme]

[FONT="Georgia"]@Random, it has nothing to do with how one is touched.

It has to do with not being touched at all. As in never.

Many, many stonebutches and stonefemme are not female genitalia receptive.

i am NOT female genitalia receptive and have been for over 25 years. i have met and known many, many stonebutches who are NOT female genitalia receptive.

Anyone who comes into our house and tells us we're wrong for feeling this way is denigrating and demeaning our identities.

We are who we are. And we have every right to be who we are.

Those who don't like us and our philosophies can go find other places more conforming to who they are and what they believe.

[/FONT

[The_Lady_Snow]

Just to clarify to the OP, no one is telling you what or how to be. The issue is your choice of wording and how lesbianphobic it sounds:

Originally Posted by SilverStoneFemme

You have the heart of a stonefemme even if you're also able to do that lesbian thing......lol.....*shutter*.....sorry, even thinking of that makes me shiver.....can't help it, i'm a hard core stonefemme............
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverStoneFemme


There are things i won't do, sexually, on an every day basis. Occasionally, ok. But all the time? Nope. That's that lesbian sex and i'm not a lesbian. i'm a queer stonefemme...........

[JustJo]

Anyone who comes into our house and tells us we're wrong for feeling this way is denigrating and demeaning our identities.

We are who we are. And we have every right to be who we are.



Hi SilverStoneFemme,

I actually came in here to read, and am honestly confused. From what I have read, no one has said that you are wrong for feeling the way you feel, or said that you don't have a right to be who you are.

What I read was that some people were offended that, while expressing what you are and feel, you also put others down with your expressions of distaste.

It's perfectly possible to express who you are without denigrating others.

For example, BDSM or being polyamorous are not part of who I am, and I cannot imagine that those things will ever change. Some parts of me are still evolving and are up for debate, but in many ways I am who I am....and who I am is pretty vanilla (with a little twist of naughty) and very much a "one person person."

In saying that I am defining myself, but I am also not putting down anyone here who embraces a different identity, lifestyle or approach.

Does that make sense? :olive:

[LadyRieinAL]

I've been called so many names - Pillow Princess being the best sounding one - and I don't try to explain who I am to those who don't understand, 'cause it doesn't matter, they're never going to get it.
My partner and I have been separated for a little over a year, we were together for almost ten years - and we've finally come to an agreement, because of many factors, but the main being because I am stone and he isn't.
It has been very scary for me to think in terms of dating again, and yet one year is enough time for me to be alone, I'm slowly allowing myself to get back into the dating circle -
So many people hate labels, but how are you to come in contact with the certain type of person you're attracted to if you don't use them.
Perhaps this is the key place to help me come in contact with someone who is interested in dating an older stone femme - I'm 57 (age being another factor) - or at least know that I have support in the type of person I am attracted to - and I don't have to be ashamed or embarrased by what I feel.
Thank you So much for opening up this thread!!

[Hollylane]

Those stonebutches who do not want their genitalia to be touched find lesbian sex to be offensive to them PERSONALLY.

Those stonefemmes who do not want to touch the genitalia of their stonebutches find lesbian sex to be offensive to them PERSONALLY.

This is the reality for those stonebutches and stonefemmes who are NOT female genital receptive. We don't do lesbian sex. It's the way of many, many stones and we do NOT need anyone's permission or acceptance to be so.

For those people to come into OUR house and tell us we're wrong for how we think, what we feel about our OWN personal sexual activity, is beyond arrogance.

This is the way for many, many stones. You don't have to like it.

If anyone is being demeaned here, it's us.

I certainly don't mean to seem like I'm jumping on the bandwagon here, or viewed as the semantics warden. I just want to point out that the term you're using, "lesbian sex", is the sticking point for me.

There is diversity in every ID, and I know from getting to know people throughout the years, that not all Stonebutches/Stonefemmes have identical sexual preferences, and many of them ID as lesbian. So, the term "lesbian sex", in the manner you used it in, IMO, could be viewed as offensive, without a deeper description detailing that this is what Stone means to you personally.

I don't feel like any of us are saying your personal preferences are wrong. I just feel like the way that phrase is being used, implies that most or all Stones share your preferences, if they ID as Stone. In addition, I do think it may be off putting to those who view their Stone ID differently than you do, to feel welcome to join a discussion.

[SilverStoneFemme]

You begin by starting the idea of a great thread for those who are Stone and those who love them.

In your descriptor of what Stone Butch is, you put upon them the pronoun "Hy," perhaps without thinking, there might in fact be Female Identified Stone Butches. In fact, there are quite few here on the planet. By referring to the Masculine counter part of a Femme, as a Hy, you are in fact alienating those people, yet you are quite emphatic in stating this is for all Stone people.

Julie

i made it quite clear at the beginning of this thread that those folx who identified with what was described as being stone were welcome to join us. HY was one of those descriptors.

i did NOT say hy without thinking. That was an intention statement. This thread is for those stones who are masculine identified and use the pronoun hy.

If the description of stone here, meaning hy, doesn't match anyone else's definition of stone, those folx can go start a thread that more clearly matches what they think is the definition of stone, including those stones who are woman identified and use the descriptors she and her.

Everyone has the right to start threads for a particular identity. Or anything else for that matter. i have started a thread here for those stones who consider themselves to be representative of the descriptors i've presented. i made it clear if they don't agree with who this group is for, they can start another thread for their own descriptors.

Yourself, included, Julie.

Don't simply disagree and criticize me for what i've done, go put your own definitions into a differnet thread.

[aishah]

(seems we were all posting at the same time...sorry if this covers ground covered in previous posts.)

i'm not sure why lesbian and stone are being posed here in opposition to one another. they are both identities. some folks here identify as BOTH. they are not kinds of sex...they are identities. some stone folks like to do certain sex acts, some don't. some lesbians like certain sex acts, some don't. some define themselves as both lesbian and stone because they don't or do like sex a certain way. others define themselves as lesbian and stone and may have sex differently. i'm really uncomfortable with the positioning of lesbian and stone as opposite to one another, on the basis of certain sex acts "belonging" to lesbian and certain sex acts "belonging" to stone. i'm not lesbian, and i am stone (though not with the exact same sex boundaries as some folks...maybe with similar boundaries to others), but it still makes me extremely uncomfortable. particularly because there are a LOT of lesbian stone femmes AND butches here. as has already been stated.

if silverstone or others don't like some sex acts and for them that is how they understand stone...that's cool. but that doesn't make some sex acts explicitly "lesbian" and others "stone." they're just sex acts. lesbian and stone are identities. none of those identities or sex acts are inherently better than another, and they do not have to be mutually exclusive.

i for one am grateful that there is another stone thread here. but i don't want having another stone thread to mean we exclude stone folks who don't define themselves exactly one way. or for it to mean that we are positioning stone as somehow opposite or exclusive of lesbian.

[BullDog]

I am a stone butch. I have lesbian sex. I may not engage in the type of sex that you define as "lesbian sex," however I am still having lesbian sex. How is that possible? Because I am a lesbian- a woman who has sex with another woman and who identities as a lesbian. I am also completely stone.

If anyone thinks it gross for two women to have sex together then that's homophobic to the extreme. There is no such thing as lesbian sex in terms of sex acts. Lesbians can have sex in whatever manner they choose- including being stone.

If there are certain sex acts that you don't enjoy that's fine, but you don't have to go ew ick. You can just talk about what you do enjoy. I don't enjoy penetration, but I also don't put down any butch that does.

You can talk about the sex and type of relationships you like without putting anyone down.

You only get to define what stone is for yourself and no one else.

I am completely fine with have a female body. I am not worried about anyone "feminizing" me and don't think it is possible for anyone to do so anyway.

I am a stone butch. I am a lesbian. I am a She.

Oh and yeah I am part of the House of Stone whether you like it or not.

Saying the same things over and over for years and years and years really does get old. Over and out.

EDIT: I am masculine and I am a She.

[aishah]

i made it quite clear at the beginning of this thread that those folx who identified with what was described as being stone were welcome to join us. HY was one of those descriptors.

i did NOT say hy without thinking. That was an intention statement. This thread is for those stones who are masculine identified and use the pronoun hy.

If the description of stone here, meaning hy, doesn't match anyone else's definition of stone, those folx can go start a thread that more clearly matches what they think is the definition of stone, including those stones who are woman identified and use the descriptors she and her.

Everyone has the right to start threads for a particular identity. Or anything else for that matter. i have started a thread here for those stones who consider themselves to be representative of the descriptors i've presented. i made it clear if they don't agree with who this group is for, they can start another thread for their own descriptors.

Yourself, included, Julie.

Don't simply disagree and criticize me for what i've done, go put your own definitions into a differnet thread.

since my id is clearly unwelcome here, i'll be sticking to the stone femme thread...as another poster said, our part of the community is relatively small. i don't understand the point of making it even smaller, or excluding people. personally it makes me feel like crap. but that's just me.

[Random]

[FONT="Georgia"]@Random, it has nothing to do with how one is touched.

It has to do with not being touched at all. As in never.

Many, many stonebutches and stonefemme are not female genitalia receptive.

i am NOT female genitalia receptive and have been for over 25 years. i have met and known many, many stonebutches who are NOT female genitalia receptive.

Anyone who comes into our house and tells us we're wrong for feeling this way is denigrating and demeaning our identities.

We are who we are. And we have every right to be who we are.

Those who don't like us and our philosophies can go find other places more conforming to who they are and what they believe.

[/FONT

I was responding to Dee's comment about feminzing touch...

I am well aware of Stone.. All thee definitions of the word...

No one is coming into your house and telling you that being stone is wrong, what they are telling you is that just because you don't care for a sexual act, doesn't give you the right turn it into a gross act...

I think people are having issues with the way you worded your distane for oral sex more so than having issues with being stone...

Myself? I don't care for oral sex... I rarely perform it, or allow it performed on me... It's simply not my cup of tea...

See how I said that without making the act into an icky thing?

Not a damn thing wrong with being stone.. I rather enjoy it myself.... both definitions.. *eg*

[SilverStoneFemme]

(seems we were all posting at the same time...sorry if this covers ground covered in previous posts.)

i'm not sure why lesbian and stone are being posed here in opposition to one another. they are both identities. some folks here identify as BOTH. they are not kinds of sex...they are identities. some stone folks like to do certain sex acts, some don't. some lesbians like certain sex acts, some don't. some define themselves as both lesbian and stone because they don't or do like sex a certain way. others define themselves as lesbian and stone and may have sex differently. i'm really uncomfortable with the positioning of lesbian and stone as opposite to one another, on the basis of certain sex acts "belonging" to lesbian and certain sex acts "belonging" to stone. i'm not lesbian, and i am stone (though not with the exact same sex boundaries as some folks...maybe with similar boundaries to others), but it still makes me extremely uncomfortable. particularly because there are a LOT of lesbian stone femmes AND butches here. as has already been stated.

if silverstone or others don't like some sex acts and for them that is how they understand stone...that's cool. but that doesn't make some sex acts explicitly "lesbian" and others "stone." they're just sex acts. lesbian and stone are identities. none of those identities or sex acts are inherently better than another, and they do not have to be mutually exclusive.

i for one am grateful that there is another stone thread here. but i don't want having another stone thread to mean we exclude stone folks who don't define themselves exactly one way. or for it to mean that we are positioning stone as somehow opposite or exclusive of lesbian.

So sorry, aishash, as much as i appreciate your previous posts, and the props you've given me, i must disagree.

Stone, in this thread, is different than lesbian.

Should you want to start a thread that includes lesbian, you have the opportunity to do so.

Stone, here, is an identity of and for itself.

This is a place where a small group of folx can come and not be pressured to conform to 14 other definitions. Where non-lesbian, non-female genitialia receptive, non-female pronoun stones can be open about who they are.

And not apologize for it.

[Random]

[FONT="Georgia"]@Random, it has nothing to do with how one is touched.

It has to do with not being touched at all. As in never.

Many, many stonebutches and stonefemme are not female genitalia receptive.

i am NOT female genitalia receptive and have been for over 25 years. i have met and known many, many stonebutches who are NOT female genitalia receptive.

Anyone who comes into our house and tells us we're wrong for feeling this way is denigrating and demeaning our identities.

We are who we are. And we have every right to be who we are.

Those who don't like us and our philosophies can go find other places more conforming to who they are and what they believe.

[/FONT

I wasn't talking about just genitalia being touched...

I was talking about chest/breast/back/hips/shoulders/ass/feet/hands/arms...

For me every part of someones body can be sexualized..

I have brought a stone butch to orgasm by biting/sucking on his inner arm... The way that I held his arm mattered...

For me... The devil is in the detail.. It's part of my job to pay attention to EVERY possibility...

I get focused like that...

[SilverStoneFemme]

I am a stone butch. I have lesbian sex. I may not engage in the type of sex that you define as "lesbian sex," however I am still having lesbian sex. How is that possible? Because I am a lesbian- a woman who has sex with another woman and who identities as a lesbian. I am also completely stone.

If anyone thinks it gross for two women to have sex together then that's homophobic to the extreme. There is no such thing as lesbian sex in terms of sex acts. Lesbians can have sex in whatever manner they choose- including being stone.

If there are certain sex acts that you don't enjoy that's fine, but you don't have to go ew ick. You can just talk about what you do enjoy. I don't enjoy penetration, but I also don't put down any butch that does.

You can talk about the sex and type of relationships you like without putting anyone down.

You only get to define what stone is for yourself and no one else.

I am completely fine with have a female body. I am not worried about anyone "feminizing" me and don't think it is possible for anyone to do so anyway.

I am a stone butch. I am a lesbian. I am a She.

Oh and yeah I am part of the House of Stone whether you like it or not.

Saying the same things over and over for years and years and years really does get old. Over and out.

EDIT: I am masculine and I am a She.

i am defining what is stone for this thread. If you're not who and what the definitions for this thread, is.....if you're a lesbian, woman identified and use the pronoun she and her, you're not going to be happy with this thread.

You have the option of starting a thread for those stones who DO identify as being a woman, have no problems with having their genitals touched, and who identify as being stone.

[BullDog]

i am defining what is stone for this thread. If you're not who and what the definitions for this thread, is.....if you're a lesbian, woman identified and use the pronoun she and her, you're not going to be happy with this thread.

You have the option of starting a thread for those stones who DO identify as being a woman, have no problems with having their genitals touched, and who identify as being stone.

You don't get to define what stone is and you don't get to say who qualifies as stone and you don't get to put a Lesbians Keep Out Sign on the door- not here. If you really think that's ok maybe check with the Admins.

EDIT: you appear to be making assumptions about my genitals- not cool.

[SilverStoneFemme]

You don't get to define what stone is and you don't get to say who qualifies as stone and you don't get to put a Lesbians Keep Out Sign on the door- not here. If you really think that's ok maybe check with the Admins.

i am defining what stone is for the purposes of THIS THREAD ONLY.

If you have a different definition of stone, good.

If you want a thread that conforms to your description of stone, you have the opportunity to start a different thread.

[The_Lady_Snow]

It's not about your desires it's about your fucked up internal homophobia.

You gotta work on that shit it's so 90's dash site shennanigans!!!


DISLIKE!!

[princessbelle]

So sorry, aishash, as much as i appreciate your previous posts, and the props you've given me, i must disagree.

Stone, in this thread, is different than lesbian.

Should you want to start a thread that includes lesbian, you have the opportunity to do so.

Stone, here, is an identity of and for itself.

This is a place where a small group of folx can come and not be pressured to conform to 14 other definitions. Where non-lesbian, non-female genitialia receptive, non-female pronoun stones can be open about who they are.

And not apologize for it.

So let me see if i've got this straight....

If we identify as "She" or if you are a lesbian in any shape or form we are not welcome on this thread. And as far as Masculine...don't matter...you HAVE to ID as Hy or He.

Last i looked YOU id as she.

Last i heard you can't tell us where we can and can't post. Pretty sure only Mods can do that.

This reminds me of a club house when we were kids that said "ONLY ___ allowed".

Sorry, that just didn't fly past the 2nd grade for most of us.

If us "Lesbians" and Lesbian supporters make you go "ewwy".

Too bad.

[Hollylane]

Perhaps it would be better to change the name to something less inclusive. Like "The Place to gather for Stonebutch non-lesbian identified persons who ID as Hy, and shudder at the thought of their Stonefemme wanting to touch them vaginally, and the Stonefemmes who feel the same way"

I'm not making fun, or light of your preferences, I'm just trying to make my point. My post looks passive aggressive, and I don't mean it that way, I am simply trying to show you how it sounds to me, and possibly to others when you take that stance. I personally find the idea of excluding others who ID as Stone from a thread entitled "The House Of Stone", because your sexual preferences may be different, feels pretty yuck.

The word "House", to me, means somewhere safe and welcoming. I don't feel either of those things when I read your original post, or your responses.

[*Anya*]

i am defining what is stone for this thread. If you're not who and what the definitions for this thread, is.....if you're a lesbian, woman identified and use the pronoun she and her, you're not going to be happy with this thread.

You have the option of starting a thread for those stones who DO identify as being a woman, have no problems with having their genitals touched, and who identify as being stone.


Have I entered the Twilight Zone? WTF?

SilverStone, really, who are you? Only the owners, admins and mods determine who is allowed to participate in a thread! This is not "your house"!

This Website is my house, my lesbian sisters, femmes that don't ID as lesbians, female ID and masculine ID butches, transfolks, queers, bi's and anyone that damn well feels that they belong.

Never have I felt such hostility from anyone on the Planet due to my lesbian identity!

Anyone that knows me from my posts knows I go out of my way to be accepting of everyone.

Your posts and attitudes are simply unacceptable and it shocks me that you are so defensive.

As Bulldog posted: you don't get to post a "Lesbians keep out" sign!

[jac]

This thread has made me wonder and think all freakin’ day long.

I am a lesbian female, a woman that loves women. I have no intention of changing my gender. I like being a woman that loves women. However, I do so enjoy sex a specific way and that way is determined between my partner and myself. It changes and grows and fluctuates as time goes on…

Yes, I have said I am a stone on this site and even my name has stone in it because this was how I was seeing myself when I was in question years ago. But really... seriously... what is stone? It's each individual's perspective of who they are and what they want.

I am realizing more and more as I get older that I don’t particularly care for the labeling like I use to. It’s not going to change who I am to “say” I am this or that. I know who I am and my partner knows who I am… and really that is all that matters anymore. To look at me walking down the street one would think I was a typical white Caucasian with fair skin and blonde hair but in all reality I am three-quarters Spanish. Does this mean I need to go around saying “Hey I’m so and so and I am Spanish so get it right,” I don’t think so.

I do prefer the more masculine pronouns but if Joe Blow passes me by and refers to me by a feminine pronoun I am not going to freak on his ass. What purpose will that serve me? To be rude to another human-being will only be demeaning to the person I am, a loving, caring compassionate individual. Maybe I’m talking in riddles and not making much sense to the readers of this thread but basically I am saying I am comfortable being me, having sex with my partner as we do, and living my life in peace.

So OP the issue from what I see is not who you are and what you like or prefer but how you disrespected others… Let’s all work to have a little understanding of one another and compassion for each other and if that is just too much to ask for, then let’s try to find a point of agreeing to disagree and move along and past all of this.

If this is the “home” that we are to come to as a stone, I will continue searching… cause home shouldn’t feel this painful and sad. Home shouldn’t have all this fighting and bickering….

[SilverStoneFemme]

Butches who are masculine, not woman identified, who use the pronoun hy and not she, who do not wish their genitalia to be touched in any way, who don't want their bodies to be touched in any kind of feminizing manner, and who are butchcock-centric, is a legitimate gender identity.

Repeat, this is a legitimate gender identity.

If this is not who you are, then this simply means this is not who you are.

You have the opportunity to create another thread which utilizes you own personal gender identity as a basis.

[BullDog]

Wow that sure is a mouthful. You sound like you are giving a definition of what you think stone butch is and you don't even id that way.