Reactions to Embracing Your Femme(ness) [Archive]

mariamma

08-20-2012, 01:37 PM

Thank you Medusa for starting this thread and thank you Novelafemme for the great link. Love the image of a busty bevy of curvy femmes laughing, singing and tearing apart a pinata.
I came out in a gentle, accepting Nor Cali town that had 4 womyn's lands and a history of Back to the Land communities that started out with hippie hetero couples and women who then discovered they loved each other more than they loved their husbands. But no femmes.
My first GF was my one and only butch I've been with and I still ache for the sweet and tender way she looked at me and treated me. I am femme mostly because I love butch women so much, I love how they make me feel in body and soul.
I spent many years with men (by choice, I wanted black kids who knew and loved their father and being with men was the best way I could accomplish this) but when I saw a butch EMT lope towards me at work one day, the sight of her broke me of my habit of men. Why have serve a man hamburger when you can eat caviar off the bicep of a butch?
When I was single again, many men came forward to court me (I'm sure y'all know what I'm talking about). They were surprised when I said I was a lesbian, had been for years and that I was with men by choice. No man has said anything as narrow-minded as what the elder gentleman said to Novelafemme but they are puzzled. At one point I subscribed to the belief that wanting a butch woman and wanting a strapping butch woman was really wanting a man. But for me, men are a poor substitute for butch women. There's an emotional quality in butch women that I crave that men don't have. There is a huge difference between wanting a butch woman or even butch male ID person and wanting a bio-male. It's not about physical structures as much as it is about biology and energy.
The men who had come forward hoping to date me listened to my story and asked if it was because my ex broke my heart, or because I really didn't like men. I told them all the story of the butch EMT who broke me of my habit of men in full detail and they would often see the delight and change in my mannerisms and go 'Aha! She really, really likes butch women! I know she likes me as a friend but...she's lighting up at the thought of a woman's muscled arm, the golden hairs on her muscled arms and the twinkling of forearm muscles. I can't compete with that. She likes me as a friend but loves butch women'. They would 'get' what I meant. I wasn't rejecting the men by loving women. Usually once we get past that point, they realize it was never about men or how an individual male treated me. It was more about embracing the full beauty of a person and loving the beauty of butch women.

Martina

08-20-2012, 07:14 PM

I am not hyper feminine (nor differently femmed). Just femme. I never was androgynous or alternative. Certainly not butch.

I ID'd as femme because I wanted to fuck and be fucked by butches and wanted to feel like a woman (not a gay boy) while I was getting it. That's honestly how it started.

Then it grew to be part of me. It made sense. It acknowledged the natural connection I felt with my mom and other women while allowing me to be the queer that I am. (I am so oblivious to guys that I have been accused of being a 6 on the Kinsey scale.) It made sense for me.

I also fuck femmes. I like femmes sexually. That is unusual in butch-femme. I do not fuck femmes who try to bring out the boy in me. If I don't feel like a woman in bed, it ain't gonna happen twice.

I like Femme Tops and hungry girl bottoms. Right now, I'd say my preference is for femmes, but that stuff shifts around.

I try not to talk about femme in terms of how I dress or do my hair although it's almost impossible to avoid. But I am femme. I feel my grace, and to a special few, I have communicated it.

2qt

08-20-2012, 07:30 PM

Great topic..

For me it when I first began to date women, I never really understood what I was attracted to I just knew I was attracted to women....

My 1st date and relationship was with a femme woman it wasn't a very lasting relationship because something inside me felt odd, strange, a sense of it not fitting....

I shrugged it off as just 2 people with 2 different goals in life and left it at that...

A little along the track I met another woman I connected with who happened to be femme again and again the same road led to a short term relationship of confusion, it was at this point that I began to question myself and my sexuality all over again, it was like I put myself back into a closet and I was feeling suffocated....

I remember thinking perhaps my parents are right, this was just a phase in my life and I would meet a man and fall in love and so it was, I met a man I had the wedding the white picket fence and soon a beautiful baby girl but something was still missing and my marriage failed....

After this I took some much needed self discovery into who I was, what I liked, what attracted me....A friend of mine came over who asked me to join her at a butch/femme dance curious at what it all meant I decided to give it a try...

Which is where I met an amazing woman whom just so happened to be a butch woman...

For the first time every started to fit, all those pieces that was missing was found in one person, when she brought me flowers I never had the feeling of it being wrong, when she held me in her arms it never felt confusing it just felt like home...

So that's when I began to accept and understand that my identity was a femme woman, and I was very much attracted to butch women...

Naturally having this idea has sparked much fuel in my life with my friends and others believing that labels are fake or a waste of time in fact I even had one go as far to tell me I was racist to my own kind lol but in the end....

I do identify to a label because it's not about being a label it's about being comfortable with who I am inside, it's about knowing what I can feel for another without force being involved, loving another femme woman for me felt forced, it felt empty and had no meaning for me....

I love the dynamics of a butch/femme relationship....I love my shopping, I love my shoes, I love my dresses, I love who I am as a person (Yes crazy emotions and all) and I need the opposite to balance me and make me whole....

Martina

08-20-2012, 07:36 PM

I love who I am as a person (Yes crazy emotions and all) and I need the opposite to balance me and make me whole....

I know some pretty hormonal butches if that's what you're saying.

NJFemmie

08-20-2012, 07:47 PM

I just am femme. I am constantly changing, evolving, exploring and just being me. I don't explain myself to anyone, I don't make excuses for anything I do "out of femme norm". There are times when I am super girly, and times when I'm not. I've been with butches, femmes and everything in between. I've topped and bottomed and go with the flow. I follow my heart and do what makes me feel right inside. I don't allow much to define my femininity - that is apparent no matter what.

2qt

08-20-2012, 07:47 PM

I know some pretty hormonal butches if that's what you're saying.

No just meaning that I can often sometimes be over emotional or passionate on something I feel strongly about but it's just part of who I am as a whole and I love that about myself... I agree butches can be equally hormonal some just tend to express it differently to how I do, meaning I tend to be outspoken some butches I have been in a relationship with tend to close themselves up... :)

The_Lady_Snow

08-20-2012, 07:54 PM

I identified as dyke till right around 2001, I'm not overly girly not even as a wee lil lass I honestly was androgynous till about the age of 16 then my mother began her weird Latina Catholic cultural binary enforcement of heels and all things fluffy, frilly and uncomfortable to wear the only thing I liked was make up and having a skin regimen. I was often more comfortable amongst more masculine folk and just did my thing. I never truly embraced Femme until right around the age of 30 and after stumbling onto the dash site I learned that my gender presentation is Femme and I soaked in, participated and grew to know Femmes who were like myself.

I t was very emotional for me personally because I wasn't sure where I fit in the gender spectrum and because I often allowed my masculinity to be shamed I allowed the confusion to almost second guess my growing into my gender.

I feel very blessed to have attended outings, conferences, partake in convos both in real time and online that helped me embrace Femme. It's was a great relief that my gender had nothing to do with heteronormative expectations, clothing, hair, nails, who I date and so on.

I'm not fully grown into my gender I'm still on my journey and I don't think that it'll stop until I'm no longer here.

blush

08-20-2012, 08:01 PM

I didn't have a Femme Moment. I had the gay moment, but femme just seemed a natural extension of me. As I became more comfortable with myself, I got a shit ton more girly. By being more girly, I found my voice and confidence. It just kinda fed on itself.

For me, being femme had very little to do with whom I was attracted to. In fact, defining myself as femme because I was attracted to masculine energy always made me feel more invisible.

girl_dee

08-20-2012, 08:05 PM

When i was taken to a gay bar by a gay co-worker.

We walked in and i saw all the flat tops over at the bar and said * i don't wanna stay here, there's nothing but guys here!*

she said *dee? them ain't guys*

WOOOHOOO!!!

thedivahrrrself

08-20-2012, 08:49 PM

For me, I started glittering about age 16. My mother is not very girly. She jokes that if it didn't sparkle or you couldn't pet it, I wouldn't wear it.

I came out at 17, and she was confused. I didn't help that much by dating a guy trying to "make sure" I was gay. Someone, I'm sure it was a gay man, slapped the label "femme" on me. It fit, and I was convinced I was some kind rebel, defying stereotypes. And I didn't want to date a stereotype, no! I would like femme girls, I decided. Until I met a charming (I use that term loosely, I was 19.) butch with gorgeous eyes.

We slept together and the way we did it felt so natural. Since then, it's been only Butch women for me.

I hated it when lesbians asked if I was straight when I was clearly in the dyke bar. I hate it when people ask who I'm there to support at Pride. I hate the backhanded compliment of "you don't look like a lesbian". My first instinct says Who the fuck are you to tell me what a lesbian looks like? But I say, "you don't look like a straight dude."

I'm a femme. I glitter. I like attention. I don't like feeling invisible.

cara

08-20-2012, 08:58 PM

I'm still learning and growing into my femme-ness. I love that as a community, we have gotten past the stereotyping bullshit that often happens when we hear the terms butch and femme. I am attracted to people not based on how they ID, but how our energy works together. Most I have dated look butch, but only a few have ID'd that way. I have also dated a few femmes.

Great topic. I'm curious to read more responses. :)

cara

08-20-2012, 09:23 PM

mariamma

08-20-2012, 10:10 PM

I suppose I should talk about the original topic. for the most part, as a femme I feel wholly invisible in the LGBTQ community. I don't like some of the "priviledges" that come with being me. people assume I'm straight. I'm not out to everyone yet because I'm not completely comfortable in my own skin. i've been out to my parents, most friends, and a few acquaintances for years. At work and meeting new people is usually a different story. this year, I have put a rainbow pin on my backpack. at first, it made me really uneasy. now, I really like it because it saves me from perhaps yet another awkward conversation. aside from a little fear when I'm walking home alone at night, I like the subtle message I'm giving to the world: yeah, I'm queer, no I don't "look" like it, and please take a moment to re-examine your views of the world. for the most part, people are very supportive once they know.
I understand. I wore a pink triangle everywhere in college. I once had a (suspected lesbian) ask me what it meant, confused on why a straight-looking woman who always wore skirts would wear a pink triangle. And I wore a button that said "Vagatarian" as well as many political buttons on my coat. I still feel like I have to scream "I'm a dyke" at times in order to be taken seriously. Portia De Rossi, Cynthia Nixon and that cute country singer make it easier though.

*Anya*

08-20-2012, 10:30 PM

My first true femme moment was not my lesbian moment because that came well before my femme moment.

My first real lesbian relationship was my best friend, a femme. She was beautiful, sexy, funny, smart but something was missing for me.

We were together for about a year and drifted apart but stayed friends. Her next girlfriend was a darling baby butch with dimples named George (short for Georgiana but everyone called her George). When the femme and I got together she did not know until she met George that butches did it for her either.

I met my first butch at a NOW meeting, that hotbed of lesbian menaces (according to Betty Friedan anyway).

We became friends (as much as a butch and femme that are totally sexually attracted to each other can be) and she invited me over for drinks one night.

I was nervous as hell and totally excited in a way I never was with the femme. We chatted, laughed, the hour grew late. During a lull in the conversation, she looked at me and said, "Come here". I asked, "Why?" swallowing a gasp, knowing full well, and hoping like hell that I was right...

...she pulled me close and gave me a kiss that left me breathless.

It was a crystal-clear moment of knowing that "thing" that I was missing with the femme was the exact spark that the butch possessed. She did not make me more gay but she sure as hell made me more in touch with the femme that I would be from that moment on.

macele

08-20-2012, 11:32 PM

martina talks about grace. i'm looking for a word but that's not it. i'm going to think of grace for now until i find the word i'm searching for. there's a femmeness i feel. as i'm sure we all do, if we are women. anyway, i just don't have a lot of femme moments lol. is this one? nahh jk lol.

there's something about the way she moves, ... her mind, her love, her caring, her everything. what's that word i'm looking for!

i also liked "bring out the boy in me" by martina. not because i want a femme to bring out the boy in me. but that's part of what the butch/femme connection does. brings out parts of ourselves that say a butch/butch can't, or a femme/femme. she brings me!

so the first time i felt my femmeness, ... hasn't happened LOL. jk. i'm silly and it's late.

thank you all for sharing.

thedivahrrrself

08-22-2012, 08:24 AM

I try not to talk about femme in terms of how I dress or do my hair although it's almost impossible to avoid. But I am femme. I feel my grace, and to a special few, I have communicated it.

LOL I have no grace. In fact, my nickname used to be Grace because I'm such an ungraceful klutz!

Someone should have sent me to charm school!

starryeyes

08-22-2012, 08:54 AM

I only have an issue when I am in the general lesbian community. Then I am questioned or looked at weird or am misunderstood. I am not involved in the butch femme community in San Diego here very much at all because have not really found the pocket of folks yet. Instead, we hang out with people in the general lesbian population who are great, but it's nice to have that time with my femme sisters who I can really relate with. I keep saying I am going to try to find the BF people by organizing events, and then I get busy, hopefully soon!!

I work with many lesbians in my profession, but no femmes. They are all nice and everything but I am always the outsider. They don't understand me and my relationship with Lisa (Justin). They don't understand why I am attracted to butches and why I don't like pretty girls. We go round and round, but it's all good. There is a new office romance between two girlie girls and it's all the rage. They are always running off in the lunch room together, taking breaks together, scheduling shifts together. They boggle mind just as much as I boggle theirs! I always think... Who opens the door for who? Who pays for dinner? Who is the top? Who holds who's hand? Hahahha. I will ask them soon... Time for me to do the grilling!!!!!!! Tables are turning!!!

:-D

*Anya*

08-22-2012, 10:33 AM

They don't understand why I am attracted to butches and why I don't like pretty girls. We go round and round, but it's all good. There is a new office romance between two girlie girls and it's all the rage. They are always running off in the lunch room together, taking breaks together, scheduling shifts together. They boggle mind just as much as I boggle theirs! I always think... Who opens the door for who? Who pays for dinner? Who is the top? Who holds who's hand? Hahahha. I will ask them soon... Time for me to do the grilling!!!!!!! Tables are turning!!!

:-D

Starry, I love this! I can so relate:)

It was one of the most difficult things for me with my femme.

Maybe it is because I was socialized in my former life with men to let them do the initiating but I came across this all the time with her!

In the beginning we would both sit and look at each other, wanting to make love but having no clue how to "start".

I finally was pushed into more of a top role but that really was not me and never felt comfortable at all. Yes, I know there are plenty of alpha femme tops but I am not one of them (kind of a switch but that is another story).

:)

Novelafemme

08-22-2012, 10:48 AM

mariamma

08-22-2012, 11:01 AM

They boggle mind just as much as I boggle theirs! I always think... Who opens the door for who? Who pays for dinner? Who is the top? Who holds who's hand? Hahahha. I will ask them soon... Time for me to do the grilling!!!!!!! Tables are turning!!!

:-D

I'd love to be a butterfly on the wall when that happened. Thanks for sharing Starry

starryeyes

08-22-2012, 02:44 PM

I'd love to be a butterfly on the wall when that happened. Thanks for sharing Starry

It's my own sterotype. I have my own perceptions on how things should be based on how I live my life. I am no different than them I suppose!

Ginger

08-28-2012, 09:02 PM

I'm glad this thread is here.

I think people's identities are all so unique.

If someone takes credit for liberating or waking up or setting free the femme in you, beware.

That honor is yours only.

Anyway, that's what I believe.

Artdecogoddess

08-29-2012, 09:30 AM

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 06:20 AM

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 06:29 AM

When you are out with your SO at dinner and the server looks at you both, back and forth and then looks away and says:

*is this on the same ticket?*

or at the end of the meal they come over and slideeeeeee the dinner ticket between you so as not to ask *who's paying*

i love the old guys who stare at Syr, then at me, then back at Syr.

I find that most people who ignorantly ask if I'm with mine that they're so stuck on straight privilege that they forget their manners. It's rude, unprofesional, and ignorant.

As for the check it's 9 times out of 10 handed to me, I tend to make it very clear in the world who's Master & Commander of our voyage in the world.

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 06:51 AM

I find that most people who ignorantly ask if I'm with mine that they're so stuck on straight privilege that they forget their manners. It's rude, unprofesional, and ignorant.

As for the check it's 9 times out of 10 handed to me, I tend to make it very clear in the world who's Master & Commander of our voyage in the world.

i find the patrons are way more rude/ignorant than most waitstaff. i suppose the staff are so cautious about making assumptions that they just stumble at times.

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 07:04 AM

i find the patrons are way more rude/ignorant than most waitstaff. i suppose the staff are so cautious about making assumptions that they just stumble at times.

We're foodie, traveling, food truck experiencing kinda folk so with patrons it regional .

When we've travelled out West, up North our dynamic wasn't a biggie with staff or patrons we can either enjoy our meal as a couple or as a family.

In Wyoming and The South regardless of how deep it is staff and patrons are down right rude, imposing, and irritating.

I'm not a fan of having my experiences in life ruined by isms from anyone I'm handing my money to. If you're stupid enough to stare as I walk through to be seated I'm going to br vocally expressive and ask that they mind their business. If it's not a known Queer safe establishment or town I'm pretty prepared to deal with idiots in a calm demeanor. That goes out the window if the man cub is around and anyone chooses to cross into our space. It's not pretty but it's something not new when it comes to assholes.

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 07:14 AM

I should start with a bit of a warning... I am tired today.

Embracing my femmeness is recent. Like the pendulum swung in the femme direction and hovers there now. I've spent most of my adult life being blah (my own word since I really tried not to stand out), middle of the road, androgynous looking. I've not questioned my connection to being a woman. Overall, I've felt no disconnect from the body I was born into (my eyelashes are very thin and I don't like that since it is strictly out of proportion to the rest of my bodies dimensions).

These days I don't mind standing out and being more "girly" looking. Dressing in a way that feels good to me. I am very tired of the assumptions that go with the "girly" look. This may be one of the reasons I didn't dress this way before that I forgot.

Assumptions that irritate me:
1. that I am straight. travel with a child and good luck ever being seen when standing without at another queer person around you to stimulate the question of is she?

2. that I am more concerned with how I and others look than ideas/thoughts. My brain is so much more important to me than my body when it comes to how I want people to experience me. It is what I focus on in getting to know other people.

3. the but you are so girly looks/statements when I speak about feminism, sexism, classism, and racism. People share their -isms more openly, as if I will condone them or something. I am sure I am not adequately describing this phenomenon but it freaks me out. the oh I thought you'd be okay with it looks or statements.

4. my dry and subtle sarcasm is totally misunderstood more now than it was before. I really don't want to change that part of me so I use more disclaimers which totally ruins the punch line or the thought provoking nature of saying the exact opposite of what I really think with a straight expressionless face.

Being at work really highlights how femme I am and how femme I am not. That maybe because I work in a very weird section of the state. I am considering going for the hippy look. Just so people won't be so limiting. I am currently experiencing considerable femme angst right now.

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 07:36 AM

We're foodie, traveling, food truck experiencing kinda folk so with patrons it regional .

When we've travelled out West, up North our dynamic wasn't a biggie with staff or patrons we can either enjoy our meal as a couple or as a family.

In Wyoming and The South regardless of how deep it is staff and patrons are down right rude, imposing, and irritating.

I'm not a fan of having my experiences in life ruined by isms from anyone I'm handing my money to. If you're stupid enough to stare as I walk through to be seated I'm going to br vocally expressive and ask that they mind their business. If it's not a known Queer safe establishment or town I'm pretty prepared to deal with idiots in a calm demeanor. That goes out the window if the man cub is around and anyone chooses to cross into our space. It's not pretty but it's something not new when it comes to assholes.

Yaknow i thought it was just me but i have noticed a difference in wait staff in regions.

Even in the language they use to address us.

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 07:43 AM

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 07:52 AM

thinking...

One of Syr's favorite places to eat is the family Truck Stop in town. The food is excellent, the staff is great and the price isn't bad either. It's very casual and usually composed of 99% truck driver men. It's a truck stop on a highway. Sometimes i see couples or a family there now and then.

Where i am from queers stay away from places like that. It's just asking for trouble. Maybe it is here too but with Syr you would never know that even if it were. i haven't seen anyone challenge her that's for sure.

She walks in, as if no one is in the place, has a seat and commences to read the menu, order and etc calm as you please. People stare, they glare, they whisper ..... she is tattooed and has a flat top... maybe they are not used to seeing a woman walk about like she does.

At first i was a bit taken back by that, like *doesn't she SEE the looks and stares?????* *why does she want to eat HERE?*.

Culture shock i guess.

i've learned a lot about just being yourself and not worrying about the rest of the world with her over the years.

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 08:30 AM

Yaknow i thought it was just me but i have noticed a difference in wait staff in regions.

Even in the language they use to address us.

The south in all it's deepness drives me absolutely fucking nuts with the obnoxious patron/staff familiars...

The assignment of labels such as "ladies", "missies", "honeys" drive me nuts and ruin my going out experience.

I prefer my dining/outing experiences not to turn into forced uncomfortable spaces because their service people aren't trained properly. I'm a fan of comment cards:).

Bleu

08-31-2012, 09:25 AM

I am currently experiencing considerable femme angst right now.

Thank you, spritzerJ for including this comment in your experience as it describes my state regularly these days.

I come from a long line of low-level military enlisted and garbage men. I relate to the men in my family much more than to the women. I was taught to survive in this world by a hand-to hand combat specialist. He was a Marine who was parceled out to Navy Seals and Army Rangers and Air Force pilots. He taught people how to kill face-to-face once all other options had been depleted. My body was raised by my mother, a sporty tennis player type, however, my spirit was raised by my father.

6’2” and chiseled he was man who could not embrace his own sexuality. He was remarkably strong yet simultaneously excruciatingly weak. As I look back on growing up and examine how I got to who/where I am today, I see that my father was the one who had the most impact on my psyche thus, I absorbed many of his traits. This sponging of my father was both good and bad. Mostly bad. I have fought his effects on me and ultimately had to find my true self on my own, as we all do. Still searching, by the way.

Okay, so sometimes I do curse like a longshoreman. I have found that this trait is usually a turn-off for many a butch and some of my femme sisters too. I love butches but I feel that butches are not attracted to me. Oh yeah, they are on the surface. I’m curvy, I look nice in a dress, wear heels on occasion (the right occasions) and wear make-up, blah blah blah. I like to do these things as I feel more comfortable in my own skin when I do. But, when it comes down to my need for intellectual conversation, or someone who likes my mind for what it is, someone who just “gets” me…nope. The butches run. Every single relationship I have ever had with a butch has failed miserably. This is not easy for me to reveal here on this website half-populated with butches, some who I think are attractive and whom I look forward to meeting in September or whenever. What I find ends up happening is that I sometimes clam up around people, butches and femmes alike, as when I allow myself to be just me, I feel I am rejected. I am so sick of feeling rejected by my members of my own culture. (I use the word feeling in the previous sentence because being may not actually be accurate and I can accept, and do recognize, that I am living in a world of my own perception.)

On the topic of the outside world and those who think I am straight by the way I look. I could give a f... (there I go again.) I don’t even feel accepted by my own culture, and I am way more concerned about that than whether or not some het at the grocery store sees me for who/what I am. What I don’t like at the grocery store is when I see a butch and try to catch their eye. They turn away and purposefully do not make eye contact with me…and this is a direct result of how I look. I am a femme stuck inside a soccer mom’s body and I am invisible to the people to whom I want to most be visible. I had one butch tell me it’s because I look so straight that I am shunned by the public butch. That too many butches-at-large have succumbed to a het woman’s experimental desires and melted at their deadly charms. Then they get hurt or feel duped and so they shy away from a public femme smile. Just a warm “I see you” smile. Holy hen shit, I don’t want to jump in your pants just because I smiled at you. But that is what it feels like to me, that I am shunned because I am femme. I am so presently, in my mind, femme that I find it hard to step outside myself at every moment and see myself the way the world might be seeing me at that given moment. Sheesh, it’s exhausting. So, I feel rejected every time. Wah wah, f’in wah…right? Shut up, Bleu, no one wants to hear your whiney shit…

I have lived 43 years mentally beaten about how I look. As a small girl, up to 12ish, I was androgynous. Most people thought my brother and I were brothers. I acted like a boy and I fought beside him with boys, as a boy. I was a transgendered child. Then by junior high school I was the girl who blossomed WAY too quickly, having to go with my mother to the ladies section of the department stores to purchase expensive foundation to “reign” them in. Coming out...an OMG! 27 year journey in a few sentences...I tried butch for a while as I somehow equated being a strong lesbian as presenting to the world as a “don’t f... with me” butch. Honestly, I liked how I was treated by folks in the het world as a butch, then realized I was not attracting to me the butches whom I wanted so much to like me. I slowly morphed into a femme and here I am today. I mostly like being femme. But I really just want to be liked and loved for who I am on the inside. Some friends on here have laughed with me about what percentage butch I am…2.5% is the consensus. One certain femme friend called me a futch…cute! On my profile I use the phrase, reluctant femme. I am asked about that on occasion and I have a fairly standard answer stemming around labels, but in writing this, I find I might be more accurate to just state that I acquiesce to myself.

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 09:46 AM

Spritz,

your #3 hit home for me in a way. People, even family often think because we are queer we will embrace their *ism* for something or other.

That's not a femme exclusive thing but it bugs me when people do it.

It used to happen in the work place, for example, they would seem so shocked when i spoke out against the stupidity, like i was a party pooper. We were all friends so they thought nothing was out of line for me.

i was the only (out) queer so they assumed i was safe and the heavy comments came AFTER i came out to them. Like i was a challenge to the men. Yaknow the "she needs a good man " thing.

Not ok!

I want to say that the phenomenon I was referencing is like their internal dialogue was "Hay I "accepted your queer now be fair and accept my -ism".

I'm not usually so grouchy. I just keep trying to mentally scrub myself from the first week back to school and the work BS.

There can be beautiful femme experiences. I've had them with Stoney. Hy takes the time to enjoy my presentation in looks and adores my mind.

When you describe how Syr eats at the truck stop so peacefully that is how I want to feel about being femme. Comfortable enough in how I look so where ever I go my mannerisms convey that there is no point to trying to limit me based on looks. And thus begins the we live in a sexist world carousel in my head.

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 09:47 AM

Blue I would like to share with you that after I read your post I screamed out loud and said OMG ME TOO!! I want you to know I not only SEE YOU! I HEAR YOU!! I too am a Femme who oozes and presents with masculinity within my gender!!!

I am so glad you found this venue because there are OTHERS just like you and I, there are Femme's here who can fry your bacon, wear heels, have long nails on weekends and can rock a pair of timberlands and levi's and ooze masculinity like it was honey dripping off a honey comb!!

I FEEL what you are saying about the deflection of insecurity coming off butches/transguys/femmes because you aren't a stereotypical version of Femme. I FEEL your frustration when someone dismisses your FEMME because of THEIR experience with a hetero tryst.

I'm 100% Femme each and every day of my life, I am too not defined by butch/guy or another Femme's ideal of what Femme should be!

I want to embrace you and welcome you to BFP because sister you are going to see that your Femme is our Femme and you are NOT invisible!!!!!!

Welcome!!!

PS

spritzer be who you wanna be, let your Femme flag fly the way you want it too!!!

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 10:04 AM

Thank you, spritzerJ for including this comment in your experience as it describes my state regularly these days.

I come from a long line of low-level military enlisted and garbage men. I relate to the men in my family much more than to the women. I was taught to survive in this world by a hand-to hand combat specialist. He was a Marine who was parceled out to Navy Seals and Army Rangers and Air Force pilots. He taught people how to kill face-to-face once all other options had been depleted. My body was raised by my mother, a sporty tennis player type, however, my spirit was raised by my father.

6’2” and chiseled he was man who could not embrace his own sexuality. He was remarkably strong yet simultaneously excruciatingly weak. As I look back on growing up and examine how I got to who/where I am today, I see that my father was the one who had the most impact on my psyche thus, I absorbed many of his traits. This sponging of my father was both good and bad. Mostly bad. I have fought his effects on me and ultimately had to find my true self on my own, as we all do. Still searching, by the way.

Okay, so sometimes I do curse like a longshoreman. I have found that this trait is usually a turn-off for many a butch and some of my femme sisters too. I love butches but I feel that butches are not attracted to me. Oh yeah, they are on the surface. I’m curvy, I look nice in a dress, wear heels on occasion (the right occasions) and wear make-up, blah blah blah. I like to do these things as I feel more comfortable in my own skin when I do. But, when it comes down to my need for intellectual conversation, or someone who likes my mind for what it is, someone who just “gets” me…nope. The butches run. Every single relationship I have ever had with a butch has failed miserably. This is not easy for me to reveal here on this website half-populated with butches, some who I think are attractive and whom I look forward to meeting in September or whenever. What I find ends up happening is that I sometimes clam up around people, butches and femmes alike, as when I allow myself to be just me, I feel I am rejected. I am so sick of feeling rejected by my members of my own culture. (I use the word feeling in the previous sentence because being may not actually be accurate and I can accept, and do recognize, that I am living in a world of my own perception.)

On the topic of the outside world and those who think I am straight by the way I look. I could give a f... (there I go again.) I don’t even feel accepted by my own culture, and I am way more concerned about that than whether or not some het at the grocery store sees me for who/what I am. What I don’t like at the grocery store is when I see a butch and try to catch their eye. They turn away and purposefully do not make eye contact with me…and this is a direct result of how I look. I am a femme stuck inside a soccer mom’s body and I am invisible to the people to whom I want to most be visible. I had one butch tell me it’s because I look so straight that I am shunned by the public butch. That too many butches-at-large have succumbed to a het woman’s experimental desires and melted at their deadly charms. Then they get hurt or feel duped and so they shy away from a public femme smile. Just a warm “I see you” smile. Holy hen shit, I don’t want to jump in your pants just because I smiled at you. But that is what it feels like to me, that I am shunned because I am femme. I am so presently, in my mind, femme that I find it hard to step outside myself at every moment and see myself the way the world might be seeing me at any given time. Sheesh, it’s exhausting. So, I feel rejected every time. Wah wah, f’in wah…right? Shut up, Bleu, no one wants to hear your whiney shit…

I have lived 43 years mentally beaten about how I look. As a small girl, up to 12ish, I was androgynous. Most people thought my brother and I were brothers. Then by junior high school I was the girl who blossomed WAY too quickly, having to go with my mother to the ladies section of the department stores to purchase expensive foundation to “reign” them in. Coming out...an OMG! 27 year journey in a few sentences...I tried butch for a while as I somehow equated being a strong lesbian as presenting to the world as a “don’t f... with me” butch. Honestly, I liked how I was treated by folks in the het world as a butch, then realized I was not attracting to me the butches whom I wanted so much to like me. I slowly morphed into a femme and here I am today. I mostly like being femme. But I really just want to be liked and loved for who I am on the inside. Some friends on here have laughed with me about what percentage butch I am…2.5% is the consensus. One certain femme friend called me a futch…cute! On my profile I use the phrase, reluctant femme. I am asked about that on occasion and I have a fairly standard answer stemming around labels, but in writing this, I find I might be more accurate to just state that I acquiesce to myself.

Blue,

I was going to quote a small part of your post but just couldn't snip any of it. Thank you for sharing!

When you talk about your father's role in your life I found myself shaking my head uh huh. My father was a controlling man who was also physically disabled. And the worse his disability became the more controlling he became. He taught me many things and I did to a degree adore him and paid a high price for such.

The invisibility blows. It is incredibly sad and frustrating when I give the nod and get nothing back. You know when you give each other the head nod, smile of I see you. I used to be able to do that when I was more plain jane/andro dressing and before I had a kid. Now forget about it. And I miss it, very much so. Achingly so. We've been in NH for a year now. We are still working on fitting in and it is going to be a while until we have time to seek out the queer community with dogged determination. So ya, the random "I see you" moments would really help.

I cuss like a sailor too. And it is a problem for some folks. They just don't expect it. I haven't had your butch rejection experiences. Yet right now I find folks really have rather tight cursing expectations but I attribute it to how "women" are supposed to sound and how people think elementary school teachers are supposed to talk all the time. Which is more rigid than I thought. I really just don't fit the mold there. And I am really happy I don't.

I am working on it the confidence in my version of femme that is just me. And learning to let it go when others struggle to adjust to my presentation as femme.

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 10:15 AM

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 10:27 AM

And another thing....

the early omg i skipped the training bra reign them in experience... talk about sudden immersion into the world of boys/men commenting on your body publicly... I was not ready for that. It is a shock. I remember thinking to myself, um I was playing wall ball and now your talking about my boobs? I don't get the connection. After 3 recesses in a row of boobs derail wall ball games I stopped playing. It wasn't fun and I had no idea what to say, that I could say shut the f@#* up.

Must remember this lesson so I prep The General earlier.

Exactly, we get to learn from our experiences as young women who were not cookie cutter girls. We as parents (if you are a parent or a co parent) can prepare and tell our sons or daughters that they don't have to conform to gender assignments by other people and we can teach our sons that breasts are not just for manly/butch/guy entertainment nor should they deter women from physical activities!!

My father said to me early, boys like to take up space, you should never let them even your brothers, I don't and I do it LOUD be it verbal or by extending my body and energy. I am now as a Femme so comfortable in my gender (regardless of garb) that if I want I will engulf the room and claim my space respectfully.

My 30's were defining moments for me in my Gender journey, as a Femme I grew more into the masculinity, sexual, soft, power yealding creature I was meant to be. It's incredibly emotional to share with others like you (general) because it becomes this A-HA moment and so defining that there are Tops/Masters/Femmes/Women/Girls/Lesbians just like you!

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 10:29 AM

I have lived 43 years mentally beaten about how I look. As a small girl, up to 12ish, I was androgynous. Most people thought my brother and I were brothers. I acted like a boy and I fought beside him with boys, as a boy. I was a transgendered child. Then by junior high school I was the girl who blossomed WAY too quickly, having to go with my mother to the ladies section of the department stores to purchase expensive foundation to “reign” them in. Coming out...an OMG! 27 year journey in a few sentences...I tried butch for a while as I somehow equated being a strong lesbian as presenting to the world as a “don’t f... with me” butch. Honestly, I liked how I was treated by folks in the het world as a butch, then realized I was not attracting to me the butches whom I wanted so much to like me. I slowly morphed into a femme and here I am today. I mostly like being femme. But I really just want to be liked and loved for who I am on the inside. Some friends on here have laughed with me about what percentage butch I am…2.5% is the consensus. One certain femme friend called me a futch…cute! On my profile I use the phrase, reluctant femme. I am asked about that on occasion and I have a fairly standard answer stemming around labels, but in writing this, I find I might be more accurate to just state that I acquiesce to myself.

Your post is not an easy one to clip, so I just took your last paragraph ....

You aren't alone. I can relate to your post on so many levels.

I was a tomboy when I was younger and when high school came around, I started feeling more comfortable in my femme skin. But my problem was that I couldn't be what most people categorize as "femme" because I love, adore and embrace the masculinity that exists within myself. It's what makes me who I am.

In the past, I've tried to femme it up, only to find that I was being pretentious and ultimately miserable. I found myself censoring things I say and do because I was making someone (and it was usually a butch, maybe a handful of femmes) feel more comfortable in their skin at the risk of losing my own. I couldn't do that anymore. It got to a point where I let my heart rule and lead me to where I am today - and I am very happy to have done that for myself.

I can be very femme, and at times, not so much. I am always presumed to be straight, and these days, even that doesn't bother me anymore. I don't let much define who I am let alone how femme I am or not in the world.

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 10:31 AM

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 10:44 AM

Here's a story I haven't shared too often ...

So, I was this tomboy, right? As far as all the boys on my block were concerned - I was one of the boys until my boobs started to sprout.

Wellll ..... I especially took notice to this the one day we all decided to play football, and the guys wanted me to be center. (You know, the person who is bent over ass high snapping the ball to the quarterback, just in case you weren't sure....) And guess what I feel? :/

Ugh.

The next time we decided to play, I decided to shove something down the front of my pants and insisted that *I* be the quarterback (because truth be known, I had a killer arm and my accuracy was far better...).

BOINK. How does it feel motherfucker??

Needless to say, I was not asked to be center anymore.

Looking back, i realize that day explains so many things. LOL

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 10:51 AM

Exactly, we get to learn from our experiences as young women who were not cookie cutter girls. We as parents (if you are a parent or a co parent) can prepare and tell our sons or daughters that they don't have to conform to gender assignments by other people and we can teach our sons that breasts are not just for manly/butch/guy entertainment nor should they deter women from physical activities!!

My father said to me early, boys like to take up space, you should never let them even your brothers, I don't and I do it LOUD be it verbal or by extending my body and energy. I am now as a Femme so comfortable in my gender (regardless of garb) that if I want I will engulf the room and claim my space respectfully.

My 30's were defining moments for me in my Gender journey, as a Femme I grew more into the masculinity, sexual, soft, power yealding creature I was meant to be. It's incredibly emotional to share with others like you (general) because it becomes this A-HA moment and so defining that there are Tops/Masters/Femmes/Women/Girls/Lesbians just like you!

Wow, definitely need to use your father's quote for The General and myself.

Thank you for sharing your defining moments so freely. They help me understand and begin to imagine what it looks like for me and how I can bring my self into space.

aishah

08-31-2012, 10:57 AM

i'm so grateful for all the posts here, especially bleu's post and the responses to it. thanks medusa for starting this thread.

i grew up around a lot of really strong women. i was shamed for not being extremely assertive, and that sucked, but it also made me grateful for when i did begin to become more assertive and it made me recognize and appreciate the fact that i needed to learn that skill. i also had the benefit of the fact that my mother and older sister, though our relationships were/are not always perfect, were great role models for me as women (though they were/are both straight).

i came out as bisexual/queer pretty early on in high school and always felt silenced about that, like no one took me seriously, at least until i got to college. i mostly had relationships with straight men, sometimes queer men, and other feminine women. i was always attracted to butches and folks with other gender ids but never seemed to move past the friend zone. (i also didn't date much at all and tended to have serious relationships with people i was friends with first, though, which could be part of why.)

i never felt comfortable in my body, identifying as a woman, in relationships with straight men. it's hard to explain why. i think part of it is just from the sort of awkwardness of being queer in a relationship with a straight cisman. but part of it for me was not feeling like what i'd always known/been told about womanhood and femininity were really me. meeting other femmes and coming to learn the meaning of "femme" in disabled, poor and working class, and indigenous community/ies really helped me to come home to myself and to see my gender identity and expression in a more complex and true (for me) way. i think that's a huge part of why i consider femme to be my core gender identity rather than something that's tied up in how i look/act/dress/whatever. (i mean, i guess it is a bit of both, but i tend to speak of it as my gender identity rather than my gender expression because it's such a core part of how i understand myself in the world.)

on the other hand, i do still feel some awkwardness sometimes. even in the most accepting and down groups of femmes i've been a part of, there's still an aesthetic of how one is supposed to look/dress/wear make-up, etc. that i definitely don't feel i fit into most of the time. looking at pictures my friends have posted from femmecon, part of me wonders if i'm really "femme enough" to be at home in a space like that, and i do even feel a little bit of anxiety about the planet meetup. the "not fitting in" or the reason i don't express my femme-ness in that way is because of a few different things...financial limitations, comfort/access/mobility reasons, and just generally how i like to dress and be...i don't like to wear makeup, i wear jeans and t-shirts a lot, i physically can't wear heels on a regular basis, i'm not super glam. i think maybe a lot of it is stuff i've internalized and just overthink myself when i look around and see all these gorgeous femmes and feel a bit like an ugly duckling.

there are other things besides dress and presentation, though. i like to top and bottom. i am attracted to both butches and other femmes (and people of all other kinds of gender identities/expressions). i definitely have both dominant and submissive qualities.

i still don't really feel "seen" by butches i meet on the street or other femmes, lesbians, and queer women. femme invisibility sucks. i wear queer jewelry because i love it, but also because i like not being invisible ;) one of the blessings i feel is that even though i may not look like a lot of other femmes in the group, i have felt pretty accepted by the femme (and more generally the queer) communities i've been a part of once people get to know me. and my partner now definitely sees me for who i am, and has since we first met.

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 10:58 AM

i'd like to say i am completely enjoying this dialogue. THANK YOU!

For me i was always confused about who i am. i never liked so called girly things, well some. i would steal my brothers toys so i could play with fun trucks, race cars, erector sets and hammering things. When my father was building anything usually boats, i helped. i hated the man but wanted to do things like that so i learned early on what tools were what and how to change a carburetor. i love motors and machines, fishing and running the boat myself. i love power tools, my father actually gave me a ton of power tools when i got older.

None of these traits are typical *girl* traits. i did do stuff with girls, like bake and play dolls but that was not nearly as much fun as riding on the mini bike with my brother. i climbed trees for crying out loud... most girls my age were in frilly dresses and mortified by my playing in the dirt. i liked other girls like me! i still loved being a girl, but i didn't feel like my friends. My sister would think i was gross because i was so unlike most girls. i always felt like a tug of war going on inside.

When i grew older boys they found my behavior a challenge. Soooo i toned it down, i felt there was something wrong with me. i had to become more of a "girl". BUT i actually started to enjoy wearing frocks and make up. I still played and coached softball, went fishing, took things apart and played in the dirt but could easily take a shower and slip on a sundress and heels and be just as comfortable. Just like when i was a kid i embraced both *worlds*

When i was in my 30s and disconnected with my father, who i felt was a major reason i didn't come out when i knew i was *different* at an early age, like 3.. i fell in love with my femme side, and who i AM. Finding someone who embraced me that same way has been a challenge. Since my 30's i've been in the kink world too, so finding someone who embraces all that i am and my kink side too has been a challenge. i am convinced i have found the one and only person on the planet who loves me like i am, doesn't want to change me or be more or less of this or that. She is not challenged because she knows who SHE is. It works.

i've known butches who have felt challenged by my ways. One told me i took "her butch pride" away by my hooking up my bilge pump to my boat when it was storming. Well she didn't know how to and i certainly wasn't gonna let my boat sink. i was expecting a *way to go you saved the day* instead i got a scolding. Previous to that she told me she fell in love with me when i took her fishing for the first time, loved that i was independent and able minded. It's like "OMG I LOVE YOU!!! YOU ARE SO PERFECT FOR ME" ... then *ok change for me now*.

Another told me she was disgusted with me as a femme because i gut fish. They think it's cute that i like *tomboy* stuff, UNTIL they feel challenged. i learned that's not my problem, it's theirs.

it took me about 40 years to learn that.

Bleu

08-31-2012, 10:58 AM

The next time we decided to play, I decided to shove something down the front of my pants and insisted that *I* be the quarterback (because truth be known, I had a killer arm and my accuracy was far better...).

BOINK. How does it feel motherfucker??

Needless to say, I was not asked to be center anymore.

Looking back, i realize that day explains so many things. LOL

Hahahahahaa! LOVE THIS!

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 11:07 AM

Aisha that's one reason I like going to BFP gatherings, it's a time for me as a Fierce Femme creature to display my plumage (hair, clothes,make up,shoes) it's my choice how much color, boldness, sexuality I'm going to display. If I go down to the coffee room hair nappy, looking like I just rolled out of a good fuck then I can because no one cares or they lookin' the same. I feel the same way in the forums the Femme I am isn't nor will it ever be defined by others comfort levels or lack there of!

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 11:10 AM

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 11:14 AM

Femme enough? Butch enough?

Being enough is THE given in the equation, the provision we all have on our journey.

I've struggled with "the enough" and worth. Oh I have and do. If I know one thing when I feel like I know nothing it is that worth and being enough is the pivot point.

I feel when "the enough" is over looked and we don't claim our space the hierarchy of what is butch/woman/Femme/guy enough crappy stereotypical expectation blots our gender/presentation/label/person canvas!

It leads to a dangerous concept of competition mentality. Dislike!

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 11:15 AM

Yaknow that makes me want to jump on top of this table and say *YES!!!*

i've had enough of the enough word too.

i'm enough for ME. i don't have to validate myself, my partner, my past, my anything. i'm SO over it, SO over it.

i can't change, i've tried, and for the first time ever, i don't fucking want to!

AND i am with someone who does not want me to change and stop being this way or that way, thank GODDESS because i would rather be alone that to keep hearing that i need to change to suit someone else's idea of what THEY want to be.

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 11:16 AM

I appreciate CajunDee's statement that in relationship now it works because she knows who she is (both she's :) ).

When you know who you are you share who you are. A person has a chance and choice to love and honor who you are. That is an amazing feat, a miracle. And it happens in relationships to of many types.

So this reminds me that my femme angst and my earlier problems with assumptions is my responsibility. To connect to myself and communicate who I am clearly.

aishah

08-31-2012, 11:20 AM

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 11:22 AM

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 11:30 AM

am so grateful for the wisdom that's being shared about accepting/communicating who we are and recognizing that we are enough and that that validation can't/shouldn't come from outside.

i struggle with that a lot, and it's gotten a lot better as i've grown up, and i'm sure i'll continue to come to terms with it more. i think for me it's felt like a slow process (but really looking at it in reality it hasn't been all THAT slow). i'm just of the serenity NOW! mindset ;)

i definitely agree that for me experiencing that validation with my partner in a relationship has been incredibly affirming and helpful along the journey.

I am of the mindset that the struggle with worth is okay. I get to be gentle with myself when I struggle with it. My goal is to keep shrinking the interval between when I question my worth and when I remind myself that worth is the given until there is no interval.

You voicing your struggle with worth gives us the chance to challenge and hold a space of love for you. So thank you! Because it is beautiful to see you choose into your worth.

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 11:32 AM

Amen!! Cause the Femme spectrum goes wayyyy beyond who we fuck.love.date to as simple as who we fuck.love.date. We aré entities defined by such a vast number of things from the most complex to the simplest of tastes:).

I love love love being Femme, I take great pride in that!

hee, hee! It is amazing how the conversation has gone to day. I am sooo grateful I could not find a pencil to do my work decided to be here instead. It was just what I needed.

I adore the simple complex spectrum of myself and who we are all together. I'm a sucker for a good dichotomy.

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 11:35 AM

One of the things we work on, on a daily basis is my reminding myself that i am worthy and enough. i forget stuff easily. i am much better about that.

In the past whenever someone was not happy with me, i felt i was not enough.
Not sexy enough, not thin enough, not femme enough, not rich enough, not pretty enough, not good enough... i've cut, starved, beaten myself up over it my entire life, it feels good to say that i no longer feel like i am broken, or not enough.

Enough, we all are.

The_Lady_Snow

08-31-2012, 11:38 AM

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539258_10151248796618268_695171457_n.jpg

Proud cuss like a sailor, mistaken for a *lady*, can whoop your ass physically and cerebral kinda Femme...

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 11:39 AM

hah, indeed! ...

Syr

08-31-2012, 11:39 AM

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 11:42 AM

Thank you!!

Heck i am in the mood to change the Ujoints and maybe pull the motor out of the farm truck, just so i can reinstall it!

Bleu

08-31-2012, 11:44 AM

I am of the mindset that the struggle with worth is okay. I get to be gentle with myself when I struggle with it. My goal is to keep shrinking the interval between when I question my worth and when I remind myself that worth is the given until there is no interval.

You voicing your struggle with worth gives us the chance to challenge and hold a space of love for you. So thank you! Because it is beautiful to see you choose into your worth.

I thank you all for the wisdom and support that these posts have brought to me and to so many today. This has been so worth it. I know I feel more worth it than ever myself right now. I can't wait to meet everyone!!! I'm buzzing!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
xo,
Bleu

spritzerJ

08-31-2012, 11:45 AM

Whole Worthy Femme learning to claim her space... feeling much much more centered. Thank you for the space to share, be and converse.

Now about that pencil I was looking for... I really don't dare to write in my calendar in pen. I just can not do it. I bet The General has one... but the glitter in her room is so distracting.

gaea

08-31-2012, 11:47 AM

would you know it by looking at me? the queer femme that i am the one that i see, would you recognize me? I do not stand out with painted nails and painted toes hair done up and make up applied, i often look straight am often times mistaken for such....would you know a sister if you saw her walking down the street?

my tattoo on my right arm a dead give away....often covered by work clothes etc....displayed only when amongst my people .....so would you know it would you know by looking at me how i id?

I love my heels and dresses too....so would you know? would you recognize?

Often times mistaken as straight and i have embraced my femme me who i am no matter what ....

the ever after invisible femme......embraced....

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 11:51 AM

I grew up in a household where my mother worked side by side with my father - and that meant whether it was painting the house, gardening, or putting up a fence. No one ever questioned my mother's femininity - and she proudly did all of this with her makeup on. I never grew up with ideals of what girls should do versus boys - and I was fortunate in that my mother didn't stress "gender-correctness" as I got older.

I played with boy toys. When I was given a doll, I was told I would rip the head off and use it like a ball. :| (Thank God I don't remember that...) I had nephews that were close in age to me, and they were more like my little brothers. I grew up with the freedom of my own expression - and it was never questioned.

I was STUNNED when I came out and eventually made my way toward the butch/femme dynamic. There is where I observed what and what not to do. (Supposedly) I was slammed with things like "that's not very lady like" or "that isn't very femme of you". How femme should I be, should I let that butch open the door for me?

PPfftt.

Okay, so I tried to roll with it. It got tired very quickly. I realized I was giving up myself to make someone else happy. Ultimately, this was going to make that person miserable, because hell hath no fury like a woman suppressed. I tried to avoid the stereotyped personalities.

Some thought I wasn't femme enough, others thought I was too femme. Some didn't know how to categorize me.

Well, I still don't know how to categorize me, but I'm okay with that. That's the beauty of discovery and expression - it's ever changing and ever evolving. I know who I am inside, and that is really all that matters in the end.

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 11:53 AM

Thank you!!

Heck i am in the mood to change the Ujoints and maybe pull the motor out of the farm truck, just so i can reinstall it!

Woohoo! Can you fix my front floodlight while you're at it? We fixed the passenger side, but the driver's side is a bit tougher to get to ....

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 12:08 PM

Woohoo! Can you fix my front floodlight while you're at it? We fixed the passenger side, but the driver's side is a bit tougher to get to ....

you need to crawl UNDER!!! sure i can do that!

Leigh

08-31-2012, 12:12 PM

I've been wanting to write my story about embracing my femmeness for a few days now but partly I've been busy and partly I kind of chickened out ~ however seeing and reading so many remarkable stories got me to really thinking about how I too have embraced the femmeness that I have, and since this is the topic of the thread I will share my own story with everyone as well.

I was raised the first 14 years of my life by my mom and her parents; my grandfather and grandmother were huge influences on my life and they are still missed to this day. I truly believe that I had a fairly good upbringing; my dad didn't come back into my life until I was 14 and in many ways I'm glad he wasn't there earlier. Some of who I am today is because of my dad, and that's not necessarily a bad thing however I am glad that I haven't developed some of his traits like being condescending, calling people down, making everyone around him feel like he is the king and they are beneath him etc. As a child
I wore what I wanted to (including my uncle's football jersey and my grandfather's boots; he was a trucker most of his life). I played with anything from dolls, Barbie's and my little pony to Hot Wheels cars, collecting rocks and playing outside.

I never really saw myself as "femme" really, just a person. Being overweight in high school was a hard thing to deal with; having books knocked out of my hands, being called every hurtful name in the book you can imagine, being shoved into lockers or having them rattled everytime I walked by. I did wear feminine clothes, make-up etc but often I just tried to be invisible in general hoping that no one would tease me. I never truly had an identity in high school; I dated one guy in high school for a month or so and it just never felt right but I had begun to notice a crush on women (particularily my French teacher) on grade 7 so I tried coming out once in high school which never worked, once at age 18 and then again finally at age 20. I began to chat on another gay website (not dash) and discovered the whole butch-femme dynamic. I figured out that I identified more as a femme, but I think really as my early 20's went by I was truly trying to find my identity as a person.

By my mid 20's I had met an FTM in my own city that I fell for and was with for 5 years. I went with him to his doctor's appointments, helped him with his T shots and was just overall very supportive of his transition. At this time I identified alot with him and for awhile was butch; I truly felt that's who I was at the time and I don't regret that part of my journey ~ it taught me alot about truly coming into my own and being my own person. I used to go to local FTM meetings at the GLBT centre here in Winnipeg with him and as they talked about not being able to identify with their bodies I saw so much of myself in them. Looking back now on that time in my life, I think that I was just not associating myself with being overweight and had really just disassociated my soul with my body because of years of being teased about my weight as well as dealing with my father constantly putting me down about anything he could find at fault with me.

I made a decision to transition and began in October of 2010 to take testosterone, truly believing that I was meant to be a guy. It took me until January of this year, a year and three months to truly see that I actually wasn't meant to be a guy so I stopped taking the hormones and knew that I was meant to remain a female. I've had lots of time to reflect on that time in my life and I honestly believe that I learned more about myself in that year and three months than I had ever learned about myself before ~ I began to really love myself, and accepted myself for who I am. I don't regret a moment of it and I can definitely say that it gave me such a new found respect for all of my FTM brothers and what they go through on a daily basis. I still have a couple of the effects of the hormones around, some hair growth (especially on my face) and abit of a gruffer voice than before but I've gotten used to it and don't feel that it makes me any less of a femme.

The last 3-4 months of taking the hormones, I began to miss things like wearing girly clothes and wearing make-up. I made the decision to start growing my hair back and bought make-up ~ I gave some of my guy clothes that I had bought over that year to Value Village here in my city (which is like Goodwill) and bought clothes from them to start rebuilding my wardrobe. I'm very happy with the femme that I have become; I'm more outspoken, not quite as shy as I was before (though I still have a ways to go); I've begun to work on losing weight and just getting back to me. I've missed living alot of years because I did not feel I deserved to be loved and to be happy, but as I've grown into being a femme and a woman I've re-discovered those lost parts of myself and am proud to be the femme I am now. I would not change a single thing about my life's journey, its made me who I am today and looking back on everything I've dealt with personally I'm pretty proud of myself :)

I admire each and every femme on this site; thank you all for sharing your stories and for allowing me to share mine also!

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 12:12 PM

you need to crawl UNDER!!! sure i can do that!

Not according to my car, we're going to have to pull out the battery, etc...
tougher to get to from under on that side. (We tried).

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 12:17 PM

Not according to my car, we're going to have to pull out the battery, etc...
tougher to get to from under on that side. (We tried).

oh dear. good luck!

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 12:18 PM

oh dear. good luck!

Giving up on me already?!?! :/

lol ....

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 12:25 PM

Giving up on me already?!?! :/

lol ....

LOL Nope, i love figuring things out, i need a nail file, pruning shears and some duct tape.

We'll fix that rascal!

girl_dee

08-31-2012, 12:27 PM

Leigh,

Thank you SOOOOOOO Much for sharing your story.

We have all had growing pains i am sure of that, sharing them is a wonderful thing!

dee

mariamma

08-31-2012, 12:41 PM

Assumptions that irritate me:
1. that I am straight. travel with a child and good luck ever being seen when standing without at another queer person around you to stimulate the question of is she?

That one really bugs me too. Mostly because it comes from LGBTQI people the most. I understand about being 'blah' and kind of inconspicuous. In my experience, it's more about not being seen by potential attackers or competitors (women and men).

Again, this is a great thread and I love the perspective y'all share here. Thanks!
:poc-love:

Leigh

08-31-2012, 12:48 PM

Leigh,

Thank you SOOOOOOO Much for sharing your story.

We have all had growing pains i am sure of that, sharing them is a wonderful thing!

dee

I'm glad I shared it, and its so nice to be able to share with others who understand and who have been brave enough to share their own stories with the rest of us. We have all gone through alot in our lives, and I definitely appreciate everyone for being able to tell their stories here :)

MissItalianDiva

08-31-2012, 12:57 PM

Well for me personally I do not associate my femmeness with my sexualty. I just have never connected the two. Perhaps it is because even as a child I was ultra femme. I remember throwing fits if my mother or father told me I could not wear a dress. Everything I did was feminine.

I got a box full of pictures last night of my amazing father and me. There is one particular picture that made me laugh. I was 4 and sitting in a chair next to my dad at his work and my legs were crossed. Then as I flipped through every picture where I happened to be sitting...my legs were cross. Also there just are not very many pictures where I am in anything but a skirt and dress. I realize clothing does not distinct a femme from non femme or what not but I did think it was interesting.

As I grew into my preteens and realized I was not attracted to men I was open about it. So by the time it came out my family didn't even do a double take. I think everyone just knew. Now with that being said outside of my family was a completely different story and one I still deal with today. Such comments are and have been made that I am too pretty or too femme and even too girly to be gay.

My response to that is to always calmly question their comment. How am I too femme to be gay what does that mean. Usually they call their own bs when they open their mouth to say well most gay/lesbian women are masculine looking or tomboys. It always seems in my experience that once they verbalize their closed minded theory that an aha moment comes and they realize they have unfairly boxed a portion of society. One of my biggest new peeves is the assumption that I am not a femme lesbian because I have two children. Makes me just want to take them to the library and make them read books on alternative methods of conceiving. I guess my hope for society would have been that by now they realize that even in the LGBTQI community we do have children and come in all sorts of different styles just like the heterosexual community.

Being ultra femme is not always easy just like some of the other classifications within our community. I have dated butches and transmen who have blatantly told me they feel I might be bi because I am so feminine and even have said well you "look straight" that is the one that ticks me off. How the heck does one look straight. It can be hard to date because being ultra femme apparently does not give of the same signals as let's say a butch. It is irritating at times especially considering I am a bit old fashioned when it comes to dating. I feel out of place approaching someone I am interested in. So I have learned to find tactful and creative ways of flirting.

I am going to stop rambling now and just end by saying I love all my ultra femmeness and even though it comes with issues here and there...so does everything else in life. I love being a heel wearing,makeup loving,dress wearing femme. That is me and I don't really give two hoots at this point in my life about anyone not accepting my femmeness or thinking that I am too femme to be gay.

mariamma

08-31-2012, 01:01 PM

Holy hen shit that was so moving! We have a similar story with the public butch treating our friendly smiles as a hetero-woman being too forward. I too seek community with LGBT. It's frustrating because it's really about being friendly with my peeps, not as an amorous overture.
I hope you are surviving the weather and fire season well, Bleu. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you, spritzerJ for including this comment in your experience as it describes my state regularly these days.

I come from a long line of low-level military enlisted and garbage men. I relate to the men in my family much more than to the women. I was taught to survive in this world by a hand-to hand combat specialist. He was a Marine who was parceled out to Navy Seals and Army Rangers and Air Force pilots. He taught people how to kill face-to-face once all other options had been depleted. My body was raised by my mother, a sporty tennis player type, however, my spirit was raised by my father.

6’2” and chiseled he was man who could not embrace his own sexuality. He was remarkably strong yet simultaneously excruciatingly weak. As I look back on growing up and examine how I got to who/where I am today, I see that my father was the one who had the most impact on my psyche thus, I absorbed many of his traits. This sponging of my father was both good and bad. Mostly bad. I have fought his effects on me and ultimately had to find my true self on my own, as we all do. Still searching, by the way.

Okay, so sometimes I do curse like a longshoreman. I have found that this trait is usually a turn-off for many a butch and some of my femme sisters too. I love butches but I feel that butches are not attracted to me. Oh yeah, they are on the surface. I’m curvy, I look nice in a dress, wear heels on occasion (the right occasions) and wear make-up, blah blah blah. I like to do these things as I feel more comfortable in my own skin when I do. But, when it comes down to my need for intellectual conversation, or someone who likes my mind for what it is, someone who just “gets” me…nope. The butches run. Every single relationship I have ever had with a butch has failed miserably. This is not easy for me to reveal here on this website half-populated with butches, some who I think are attractive and whom I look forward to meeting in September or whenever. What I find ends up happening is that I sometimes clam up around people, butches and femmes alike, as when I allow myself to be just me, I feel I am rejected. I am so sick of feeling rejected by my members of my own culture. (I use the word feeling in the previous sentence because being may not actually be accurate and I can accept, and do recognize, that I am living in a world of my own perception.)

On the topic of the outside world and those who think I am straight by the way I look. I could give a f... (there I go again.) I don’t even feel accepted by my own culture, and I am way more concerned about that than whether or not some het at the grocery store sees me for who/what I am. What I don’t like at the grocery store is when I see a butch and try to catch their eye. They turn away and purposefully do not make eye contact with me…and this is a direct result of how I look. I am a femme stuck inside a soccer mom’s body and I am invisible to the people to whom I want to most be visible. I had one butch tell me it’s because I look so straight that I am shunned by the public butch. That too many butches-at-large have succumbed to a het woman’s experimental desires and melted at their deadly charms. Then they get hurt or feel duped and so they shy away from a public femme smile. Just a warm “I see you” smile. Holy hen shit, I don’t want to jump in your pants just because I smiled at you. But that is what it feels like to me, that I am shunned because I am femme. I am so presently, in my mind, femme that I find it hard to step outside myself at every moment and see myself the way the world might be seeing me at that given moment. Sheesh, it’s exhausting. So, I feel rejected every time. Wah wah, f’in wah…right? Shut up, Bleu, no one wants to hear your whiney shit…

I have lived 43 years mentally beaten about how I look. As a small girl, up to 12ish, I was androgynous. Most people thought my brother and I were brothers. I acted like a boy and I fought beside him with boys, as a boy. I was a transgendered child. Then by junior high school I was the girl who blossomed WAY too quickly, having to go with my mother to the ladies section of the department stores to purchase expensive foundation to “reign” them in. Coming out...an OMG! 27 year journey in a few sentences...I tried butch for a while as I somehow equated being a strong lesbian as presenting to the world as a “don’t f... with me” butch. Honestly, I liked how I was treated by folks in the het world as a butch, then realized I was not attracting to me the butches whom I wanted so much to like me. I slowly morphed into a femme and here I am today. I mostly like being femme. But I really just want to be liked and loved for who I am on the inside. Some friends on here have laughed with me about what percentage butch I am…2.5% is the consensus. One certain femme friend called me a futch…cute! On my profile I use the phrase, reluctant femme. I am asked about that on occasion and I have a fairly standard answer stemming around labels, but in writing this, I find I might be more accurate to just state that I acquiesce to myself.

NJFemmie

08-31-2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by spritzerJ http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=643555#post643555)
Assumptions that irritate me:
1. that I am straight. travel with a child and good luck ever being seen when standing without at another queer person around you to stimulate the question of is she?

That one really bugs me too. Mostly because it comes from LGBTQI people the most. I understand about being 'blah' and kind of inconspicuous. In my experience, it's more about not being seen by potential attackers or competitors (women and men).

This doesn't even bother me anymore. In a world where everything is basically take at face value, even I have a hard time figuring some people out.

I was at a bar once with my very butch poster child best friend. A guy came up to me and asked, "Okay, so I know she is, but are you?"

Bitch please. We were in a gay bar for God's sake.

It does come in handy at times though - i.e. attackers, etc.

Sachita

08-31-2012, 01:02 PM

Well, let's see.

I sure did think i was a freak, being girly and being gay. Never saw a femme or rather, didn't know you could be femme and be gay. All the gay peeps i had ever seen were butch.

THEN i came online. THEN i found the dash site. What a wonderful thing to find out you are....

not alone
not a freak
some gay people were actually attracted to femmes.

Oh and yeah, found out i had an ID...femme.

How truly wonderful it is to be a part of so many beautiful and strong women.

Just ...lovely. :)

OMG me too! I was this big hair, BIG breasted ultra fem in 4 inch heels. Bold an vivacious. My best friend talked me into wearing 501's and boots with a pull over. No matter how hard to tried to butch it up it just wasn't happened. I intimidated queers and I can't even tell you how many times I was asked if I was in drag.

mariamma

08-31-2012, 05:14 PM

Exactly, we get to learn from our experiences as young women who were not cookie cutter girls. We as parents (if you are a parent or a co parent) can prepare and tell our sons or daughters that they don't have to conform to gender assignments by other people and we can teach our sons that breasts are not just for manly/butch/guy entertainment nor should they deter women from physical activities!!

My 30's were defining moments for me in my Gender journey, as a Femme I grew more into the masculinity, sexual, soft, power yealding creature I was meant to be. It's incredibly emotional to share with others like you (general) because it becomes this A-HA moment and so defining that there are Tops/Masters/Femmes/Women/Girls/Lesbians just like you!

Just rode my bike to the store for tapioca. I passed 2 teen-aged boys who then passed a goth kid on a bike. You couldn't really tell if he was a boy or not because he visually appeared as a blend. The kids passed eachother with a head nod and no sneers or disparaging remarks. The last 30 years of punk, metal, alternative, goth and industrial music and culture has brought queer and alternative people up to the forefront WITH THE YOUTH. These differences are becoming less significant as people reject uncomfortable cookie cutter, binary versions of how to appear to others.

I've always felt that the anger about LGBTQI people is because some don't know how to react. Some don't know if they are seeing someone they need to compete with or try to have sex with, as if those were the only choices.

Love the passion in your words Lady.

mariamma

08-31-2012, 05:32 PM

Big love and hugs to you Leigh for sharing your story. One thing is true, you are strong.

Leigh

08-31-2012, 06:03 PM

Big love and hugs to you Leigh for sharing your story. One thing is true, you are strong.

I've never been someone to see myself as strong before, but I've noticed that alot more over the last two years or so. Thank you for noticing and acknowledging it mariamma, its nice to know others see it also :)

CherylNYC

09-01-2012, 12:56 AM

Embracing my Femmeness? Well, I suppose I have, but it's been a journey. Some of my experiences might sound familiar to other femmes, but one significant part of my life is about as alien as an ET abduction to most.

I was born in 1962, and I learned early that being female, feminine, and/or physically small meant being weak and vulnerable. I remember the moment when I decided to be none of the above. Though it may sound like a contradiction, my experiences turned me into an ardent feminist by age 6. That was a year after my sister and I started working as professional models/dancers/singers/actors. If you watched TV, went out to the theatre or the Metropolitan Opera in NYC, listened to the radio, or looked at a magazine or catalogue from the mid 60s through the early-mid 70s, you would have seen or heard me. My mother and sister seemed to looove it, (particularly my mother), but no one bothered to ask me how I felt about it. The often sexualized attention from mostly male people with the power to hire me, made me deeply uncomfortable. Line the girls up. Choose the prettiest girl to get the job/money. To be honest, it didn't feel much better to be the one that got hired than the one that didn't. Adult women don't usually have good tools to deal with that kind of bald objectification, and no child's psyche is equipped to process it. Any child WILL become seriously fucked up in that environment. Since I had already been sexually abused at home, I was even more deeply traumatised by all that unwholesome body judgement.

I had always liked to rough house and get dirty, but once we stopped working in the entertainment industry, I self consciously became a tomboy. I studied the boys and tried to walk the way they walked, carry my books as they did, and be tougher, faster, smarter and meaner. I played football with them, even when they didn't welcome me. I refused to take Home Ec and demanded to be allowed to take shop classes. I refused to wear dresses. I rejected anything feminine and female because that was clearly less good than everything male. For years, I actively chose to reject femininity because my femaleness had, thus far, been the source of nothing good.

I gleaned the rest of my lessons on how to be a woman from my grandfather's huge collection of Playboy magazines that had somehow ended up in the basement of my parent's house. Yup. I devoured them. My mother was not equipped to give me much reliable information on the subject of womanhood, but those magazines provided a wealth of information about sexual passivity and the proper place of women in the world. I took it all in, along with my strong, combative feminist consciousness. I was a mess by the time I started to dress in tight, very revealing clothing as a teenager. Did I become promiscuous with boys? You bet. I had been the object of overwhelming male sexual attention from my earliest memories, but by my mid teens I had become a magnet for the kind of relentless male sexual attention that would have frightened a Navy Seal.

During all this time, I alternately projected and supressed my femininity. I always had a very ambiguous relationship with my feminine body. The sexual attention it brought always freaked me out, but I had learned early that it was the only measure of my worth. My hips naturally swivel no matter how hard I tried to tame them in the past. I have a slim but curvy body type that's very much fetishized in our culture. I've spent a lifetime fending off unwanted male sexual attention that has ALWAYS felt threatening.

I left my parent's house early and eventually got my own damned apartment when I was 17. Unfortunately, I followed myself there. I was soooo ill equipped to deal with the relentless street harrassment all young women without a male escort were forced to endure in the very poor neighbourhoods where I could afford to live. At least I thought all the women experienced what I did. Nope. All these years later, I've learned that other women simply didn't catch the same volume of hungry hands, catcalls, crotch grabing, disgusting sucking noises, and daily verbal rape that I did. I ran the gauntlet every day, even in better neighbourhoods. Even on the job. Everywhere. I projected the kind of toughness that was designed to repel the wankers, but I now know that it wasn't anything I was doing or not doing. The men were the ones doing it, and I had a target on my forehead. I was much safer when I rode my motorcycle, but that brought a whole new level of alarming attention.

Like other femmes, I got the loud, clear message from other lesbians that I didn't look right. I also IDed as bisexual until my early 20s. Yikes! I was NOT welcomed into the sisterhood. There was simply no safe place for me.

One day in my mid 20s, a beard magically sprouted on my chin. I swear it seemed to grow overnight. Just as magically, the sexual attention stopped. A few near sighted men still made lonely cat calls, but for the first time in my life, I was mostly free of male sexual attention! My body had provided me with effective man repellent, and it was glorious. I'm a 70's era lesbian feminist, deeply influenced by Germaine Greer's The Female Eunuch. Of course I let my beard grow. Whenever anyone questioned me I would belligerently snarl, "This is what a woman looks like". Sprouting a beard was one of the most positive things that could have happened to me at that time. I could wear the beautiful vintage clothes and heels that I loved, and I could just walk out in the world like anyone else. It felt like breathing fresh air after being locked in a stifling box for years.

During this time I had stopped working as a scenic designer and began to earn all my money as a carpenter/stage hand with a sideline doing some general contracting work. I look at the single surviving picture of myself at work during that time, and I'm astounded at the angry face glaring back at me. I had a huge chip on my shoulder born from working with the same horrible men that liked to harrass and humiliate women like me whenever they could get away with it. I was working with the same men who grabbed their crotches as I passed by, and who would have grabbed mine if given half a chance. I was half their size, but they were wary of my smart, angry mouth. They were all quite sure that I was the butchest thing they ever laid eyes on.

I didn't ID as femme back then, but I was very much a femme outside of work situations. And I sought out butch women. I had been wearing my beard for long enough to have recovered some of my personhood by the time I met my long-ago ex. Unfortunately she wasn't nearly as accepting as my previous hippie-feminist girlfriends, and I found out that she really hated my beard. I was 30 when I decided to start shaving. By then I was much better at dealing with the attention, and the volume of street harrassment was slightly diminished from its peak in my early 20s. I had also stopped working as a carpenter and was making a living as an artist. Artists are far less likely to say something crude, or to make a grab for some T and A, than carpenters and stagehands. What a relief. It started to feel more and more safe to be a femme, and to claim it fully. By the time I left my ex, I didn't really feel like letting my beard grow back in. Dick-head men still hounded me until last year, but I'm far better centered now. I just don't need to wear man repellent on my face anymore.

I still don't feel perfectly safe expressing my femme nature in any work situation, but my ID is far better integrated in my life now. My co-workers are far less likely to react with shock when they hear me self ID as femme, but I still confuse many. I don't care at all, but I do sometimes have irrational fears that I'm simply not femme enough to attract butch women. Don't bother telling me how crazy that is. I already know it, but it doesn't stop me from thinking it.

I have closets and dressers full of sexy, high femme outfits and high heels. I may have been a professional model/performer, but I stopped modeling and became a strident feminist before I was of an age to wear make-up. I sometimes wore eyeliner eye liner over the years, but I had NO IDEA how to properly wear make-up until a few years ago. The idea of going into a bastion of femininity such as a giant make-up store really freaked me out. A wonderful femme friend accompanied me into Sephora to hold my hand while I got good make-up advice. I still clench a little, but I'm comfortable enough to go to Sephora by myself now. I can still get totally freaked out sitting in the chair and looking at the mirror while the hairdresser talks to my image from behind me. Especially of the hairdresser is a dude. (I'm never going back to THAT place.) It would be nice to no longer battle with myself about my own femininity, but this will probably be one of my life-long struggles.

Kätzchen

09-02-2012, 08:53 PM

I think, for me, I cannot condense or distill my life experience into simple sets of events… concerning ways that I embrace my Femme identity or how others perceive me as Femme or maybe not even recognize my Femme being. It feels very complicated to me, when I think of my own life and how often fragile I feel about myself but yet simultaneously, I feel incredibly strong, confident, unrepentantly Femme – all in the same breath.

I am 53 years old now. It seems as though it was just the other day when I was in my 20s and 30s. Time does fly, and fast. I have talked about my own journey on occasion in our community and wanted to add toward what I have already shared.

I was aware of my own identity before I ever had a way to name it or own it. Who I am is who I am and I couldn’t renounce one ounce of who I am as I have grown over the years because at heart, I do believe I was born into my own skin of thought, my own skin of identity and my own skin of anything – like a huge genetic marker that cannot be altered by the best of scientific discovery or process, as if it could be dissected that way.

I think what my life looks like to me is one very slow progression of how I bloomed into being me. I seem to remember hearing a well known catch-phrase that goes something along the lines of: A person is the product of their environment. Cliché or not, I sometimes want to believe this strand of thought but find myself rejecting it on a consistent basis because in some ways I might be a product of my former environments and in some ways I might even be the product of my present environment. I want to say that for me, I am the product of the skin of thought I choose to try on or discard or toss into the wash with some dye or see if it survives a fiery furnace and still seems to fit who I feel I am or how I am just as I am (if that makes sense at all).

I grew up second eldest of four siblings, but later on in years mom and dad gave us two other siblings – increasing our familial arrangement to a household of 8 (minus a sister who died shortly after birth). My formative years were spent growing up with two brothers and one other sister. We lived in a rural area on a dairy farm. Our lives were dominated by farm life, church, school and if there was time (which there was little of), we each had our own hobbies and sets of friends. I had the least amount of time to myself but I loved music, piano studies, my very small set of girl friends from school or church and cousins I wrote to who lived very far away. It didn’t matter what kind of clothes I wore. I had and always have had a very large wardrobe. Dresses, skirts, coats, shawls, stockings, socks, all types of shoes, pants, sweaters, boots, trinkets, jewelry, but never really wore makeup until I was almost a young lady of 17 years of age – I love makeup and have to have the best I can afford but I don’t wear it daily. I save it for when I go special places or want to get all dolled up for work or sometimes just because – for no reason. I wasn’t allowed to have makeup or pants when I was young, due to sets of religious practices my family abided by or social customs of the day that my family valued more over other social customs people practiced who were not anywhere remotely like my own family or people we went to church with or went to school with.

I’d say I was a slow bloomer. It’s taken the better part of my own adult life to grow into who I consistently am – minus a few adjustments along the way: Like raising my two sons or earning two formal education degrees or a lifetime career that spanned 20 years of my adult life.

Speaking of which: Embracing my Femme identity.

I was rather quiet growing up and rather quiet in my early work life and even rather quiet as a mother raising her two sons. People knew there was something entirely different about me but they just couldn’t pinpoint what was different. As engaging as I can be socially and publicly on our forum boards, I am rather quiet and private as a woman, but not quite as private these days about the Femme in me. Over the years as I grew up, it was not entirely a safe thing to be out loud and proud. People were locked up for what society thought people like us were: social outcasts because we did not fit the parameter of what current day society back then sought to enforce (heterosexuality). Even as I grew into my adulthood, depending on where a person lived (in the continental US), you could lose your ability to earn a living, be socially discredited to the point that no one would hire you in your community, much less let you live a peaceful life. But my life was a set of complications from the start of motherhood: due in part to my sons being Black and being of a multicultural background which was peppered and salted lightly with characteristics that set me apart socially from groups available to me. My life has never been a cake walk but I do make a nice cake!

So, where was I going with all this??? Oh. To give a current day example of how invisible I am as a Femme, still to this day, I will tell you about an experience I had this summer working on my former job. The job market is a tight one out here and all I could find for a job over the past six months was working at a gas station. How I even got the job, I still wonder about today but I feel probably my unmistakable femininity is probably what helped me to get that job. Anyway, loyal customers of both corporate gas stations I worked at would at times comment to corporate offices and field supervisors about who the “lovely woman was who worked at the station.” People who frequented both places were from a cross section of everyday people to upper-level executives to travelers in our region and other parts of the US and even a small sampling of international guests. I can’t tell you how many times I heard customers say: “What are you doing here? We never see women doing this job, much less look as beautiful as you or smell as pretty as you. You are not the run of the mill worker.” And of course to me, their comments were classic: classic for those who enjoy seats of entitlement, power, privilege and a whole host of other things colliding daily on my tiny little job that was probably more of an education for people who worked with me or came to know me at the gas station and certainly for my superiors. People came to know the Femme in me in a diverse set of situations and I know they will never forget me (they miss me, clients and coworkers do: I miss them too).

I am strong. I am highly qualified to be me. I am Femme.

princessbelle

09-02-2012, 09:27 PM

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/holli52501/32ef.jpg

Les Femmes Jolies
Momo Flint

To see as I see,

release thoughts of superficial beauty.

See past the mask of society, ’

and mark individual standards.

For, as a woman,

I see beauty in all shapes and sizes.

Whether it be,

in the sway of robust hips,

the brush of rounded thighs,

the swell of full breasts,

or the calm,

self assured look,

every woman comes to know.

It takes an open mind to accept all,

but a kind heart to embrace.

rustedrims

09-03-2012, 04:59 PM

(f)I am sneaking around in here reading.The stories are so different but yet similar.I can see the struggles you have all gone through and came out stronger than ever.I appreciate you all!(f)

S.

thedivahrrrself

09-03-2012, 05:04 PM

OMG me too! I was this big hair, BIG breasted ultra fem in 4 inch heels. Bold an vivacious. My best friend talked me into wearing 501's and boots with a pull over. No matter how hard to tried to butch it up it just wasn't happened. I intimidated queers and I can't even tell you how many times I was asked if I was in drag.

LMAO this cracked me up because I went through a (very short) phase where I tried to "butch it up" to stop being invisible. I felt (and looked) pretty stupid with my slicked back hair and button up shirt... ROFL I'd almost forgotten about that summer!

Going to dig through old pics and see if I can find any of my ridiculousness!

lettertodaddy

09-03-2012, 05:12 PM

I had a brief moment where I tried being butch - wearing Queer Nation t-shirts, cut off denim shorts, and Doc Martens - but even then, I wore lots of makeup and had very girly mannerisms. It just wasn't meant to be. :)

princessbelle

09-03-2012, 05:25 PM

I remember my first girlfriend and i still didn't know about femmes. I remember apologizing to her about being girly. I told her if she would help me try and be more butch i would try. Thinking i was a disappointment to her.

She laughed and told me i was just perfect the way i was. I was so naive. She went on to tell me there are gay women like me, i wasn't by myself. I felt relieved, not sure i believed her though lol.

Had no clue about the butch/femme dynamic.

Femme is how i was born and i am so glad i never had to change. I am so thankful there are others like me.

Belonging somewhere feels beautiful!!!

Bleu

09-03-2012, 05:48 PM

Belonging somewhere feels beautiful!!!

Amen! :bunchflowers:

Ms. Meander

09-09-2012, 10:02 AM

What an awesome thread! Thanks for starting it, Medusa - and thanks to all for sharing your stories.

There are times in my life when I seem more surrounded by other queers, in real time, but it has been less-so lately. So I have regular opportunities to come out. It is less of a "Femme" issue than a "Gay" thing, except to the extent that I am not recognized as queer by the average straight person.

When people discover who I am (and who I associate with) they are often keen to question me about trans issues. Which is somewhat ridiculous because I am not trans. But I am and have been close to many trans people, and perhaps have a little insight. I at least have enough insight to open the door of understanding to a previously clueless soul. I have great and frequent opportunities to spread awareness and dispel myths and fear. I know I do it imperfectly, but you have to start somewhere.

I have had a few occasions when people have been disturbed and distressed to find that I am a Queer Femme -- something along the lines of, "but you look so normal", "you're such a pretty girl, you could be normal if you wanted to." Yeah. Thanks. I tried that. No thanks. Get used to it!

deb0670

11-02-2012, 03:56 AM

I have read a few posts in this forum, and, finally decided to try to share my story..
I have always had a very hard time feeling or thinking of myself as a Femme.. even tho that is what i truly wanted to be..
I was born 10 lbs 7 oz. and was the baby and only girl out of 3 kids. My brothers are 2 and 3 yrs older than me. I was not one of the spoiled lil girls that a lot of people know about, i did without a lot of things that my brothers were privileged to get.. My oldest brother always did Karate, my other brother was in Football, but when it got time for me to join dance or gymnastics, there never was enough money. I grew up watching my mom get a new dress every week, while us kids got new school clothes from K-Mart, once a year.
Due to my size,( i was skinny from ages 1-5 and then again between 15 and 16) but the majority of my life i was heavy set), i never got to have the pretty lil dresses or skirts like my mom did.. most of the time i had to wear my brothers hand me downs. I would see the other girls at school wearing the latest fashions and trend setters, while i was inwardly drooling over them, i was outwardly shunned and cast away, never made to feel "pretty".
I had a few dresses for church, but i was told that if i wore them i could not go out and play or wrestle with my brothers, but sit like a lady, and that got boring.
I was raised in a strict Pentecostal home, where they honestly believe that homosexuals are demon possessed and need to be delivered.. thus the reason why i stayed in the closet most of my life. I went thru the motions of getting married.. more than once.. having my kids, trying to live "right" all the while never feeling comfortable and knowing there was another way for me.
I never really had many friends that were girls growing up, so i never did the makeup and hair thing.. i didn't know how and my mom was too much into herself to see that she had a daughter who needed her.
In my last marriage, i gained a heck of a lot of weight.. mainly due to my ex not wanting me to be flirted with and also having a sit down job for almost 6 yrs.. but i had pretty clothes.. a few dresses, feminine blouses, etc.. When i finally had the nerve to leave that very abusive marriage, and got a job at Walmart as a cashier and got active.. i kid you not.. i dropped 8 pant sizes in less than 6 months. That was wonderful!! None of my clothes fit anymore! Only problem was, i had no clothes to replace all the too big for me clothes, and definitely did not have the same income i did before.. so i had to settle with what i could find.
I finally came out of the closet in May of 2009. Moved away from Illinois and moved to Oklahoma/Arkansas area. Met some gay people and started going to the first and only gay bar i have ever been to. i was still trying to figure myself out, so i started dressing like a soft butch.. but not really feeling comfortable.
I still had/have this stigma about myself that i am not feminine enough.. i don't look sexy enough, i don't know how to even begin to be sexy..
Ethan will say otherwise.. and i thank Him for that. but.. i have never ever been really accepted by women and never had close women friends who could show me how to do my makeup, or what to or not to wear.. sighs..
I first found the other BF site back in late May 2009, and thought it was awesome being able to be a part of so many awesome people.. when it.. well.. i felt lost.. then i discovered the Planet.. and for quite a while i would just observe.. cause i was worried i would not be accepted for whatever reason... like most things in my life.. and i just hid.
Today, i don't hide so much anymore.. i am starting to branch out more..
I know that i am a Femme.. i am not always in dresses and heels and do not always wear makeup.. but i am Femme..
i just wish i knew what it felt like to be sexy.. Never have i thought that i could be sexy and be heavy at the same time.. and since i do not think i will ever see skinny again.. maybe there is hope for me to be the other? shrugs..

I know i have went way left field and back again a few times in my story.. and for that i apologize.. sometimes i get alittle carried away.
i am still searching inside to find the true and real Debbie.. and.. maybe someday i will find her. But i do know one thing about her.. she is Femme.

Sarafemme

11-30-2012, 02:18 PM

On some level I have always known I was femme but didn't have the word for it.

Growing up, I was a girly-girl, played with Barbies, wore lots of pink, and it felt right to me. Meanwhile, I had massive emotional crushes on other women (not usually my peers, but teachers, adults I knew, etc.). I was a very lonely teenager; I was introverted and bookish and had no friends and didn't date anyone, even in college. (I had crushes on various guys, too, but they weren't nearly as intense as my feelings for women).

I considered the possibility of my attractions to women for the first time when I was a junior in college. I snuck to the sexuality section of the library and read books on lesbianism. I didn't dare check anything out. I felt guilty. What further frustrated me is that I didn't often feel like I related to many of the women's stories of feeling 'different': I wasn't a tomboy, I didn't want to be a boy, I didn't dream of marrying another girl. Instead, I was girly, I loved it, and figured I'd marry a man someday and forget all about these persistent and highly-charged crushes on women.

After graduation, I stayed in my hometown. I finally met a man who I thought was the one for me. We were both each other's first significant relationship (I was 27, he was 32). He proposed after only 2 months of dating. I accepted on the condition we wait a year to get married so we could get to know each other better, so that's what we did.

We had problems right from the start of our honeymoon. We couldn't achieve having sex (we both had waited; not for particularly religious reasons, though he was Catholic --just because that's how it had happened). My husband displayed a scary temper and yelled at me for not being able to relax enough. The resentment in our marriage started with that. It took us four years (yes, you read that correctly) for us to achieve that. Obviously, resentment had built throughout that time.

I suppose this all should have been a clue about my sexuality issues, but I was still deeply in denial. I took all of the blame for our problems; I was somehow 'faulty' as a woman. Further, while we were in marriage counseling, I came to the realization that I didn't want to have biological children (pregnancy/birth phobia). This reality hurt my husband a great deal, because he always had wanted to be a dad. He wasn't all that interested in adoption either (he actually thought to adopt would 'take away' children from people who couldn't have them biologically).

Finally, my best friend, after realizing I had an emotional crush on her in the midst of all of my marriage problems, called me out on my bisexuality and promised we would still be best friends (and she wasn't freaked out by my crush, either, though she didn't return my feelings). It was with her help that I not only admitted my attractions to women and called it what it was, but that I also began to embrace the inherent 'femmeness' I had always felt: Though I loved the 'trappings' of femininity, I wasn't passive or doing it to please men, not even my husband. That's why I felt so different from feminine-presenting straight women and why I could never fully relate to them: I had always felt like it was an authentic expression of my gender.