Too much honesty?

[Girl_On_Fire]

I got this thread topic idea from another thread I'm participating in.

You often hear, "Honesty is the best policy" but is it really? Is there a such thing as too much honesty in a relationship?

Here's where I'm coming from:

I'm a person with Asperger's syndrome. Since childhood, I've always been incredibly blunt and I never quite understood the concept of "time and place". If something is wrong, I point it out and try to "fix" it right away before it festers like an open sore. That's the core of who I am. Now, having said that, I've learned recently about this thing called "gesturing". That, in order to be in a successful relationship there has to be a lot of what I consider a "special type of lying" in order to maintain that relationship.

For example:


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?


These are sensitive topics for people in committed relationships and I've only found, through trial and error, that sometimes it is considered "best" to tell white lies about these things and avoid honesty to keep the relationship in smooth-sailing waters.

Since I know most people who will respond to this thread have neurotypically-wired brains, I don't expect that posters will see things the way I see them (black and white) but I'm very curious about the overall idea of gesturing and how it is used (or if it is used) in your relationship.

Are you completely blunt and honest with each other all of the time? Is there a time when being too honest might seriously damage the relationship? Or do you think letting too many things "go" in a relationship will end up in a serious blow-up or break-up?

Where do you, personally, draw the line?

[Scuba]

Great topic!! I'd like to contribute but need to put some thought behind it first. I am curious about how others will respond. :) There have been some interesting studies done regarding honesty, white lies and why we do what we do. Might be fun to post the links to a few of them.

Cheers,

Scoobs :)

[Sun]

For me the "delivery" of sensitive information or feedback is important. Blunt is not always received well by highly sensitive people. There is always a kind and loving way to say what needs to be said in a relationship. While the "white lie" to preserve someone's feelings or pride, may work for some, I have found that honesty is the work of clear conscience, honoring ourselves and our partners and also being worthy of the trust that is given in a committed relationship.

Being in a relationship and being lied to is just not fun.

Say what you mean, mean what you say.

[SuddenlyWestFemme]

Great topic!

I'm not in a relationship and since my relationships ended, perhaps I am not the best give advice on any of these topics. I try to be honest without being hurtful. If that makes sense. I have lied to keep the peace and I have told the truth and caused a fight. I don't like who I am when I lie so I really try to be honest without being hurtful.

Arguments - Do you apologize when you know you're not wrong?
Since you used the word arguments and not the word discussions... I will say that I try to apologize for my part in making it an argument. Was I trying to 'win' or I was not listening and only waiting for a chance to give "my side"? Was I trying to look smarter or superior in my opinion? Usually, I have a part in the discussion becoming an arguments and I will apologize for that.

Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
I have denied it in the past--guilty as charged. But as a Femme, I am not given eye candy very often (there are not enough Butches in this world!!!) so I think I should be given a pass. :)

Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
I am honest. But it is easy to say that because I haven't had a whole lot of sexual partners (I am a serial monogamist--dagnabbit) and they have all been sexually compatible with me and we could talk about sex. The last person I had sex with was really wonderful and seemed to know my body so well. We didn't end up in a relationship (maybe I am getting away from serial monogamy afterall) but I still think I could have told them if I wasn't satisfied.

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
If I have just started dating someone, I probably wouldn't say anything. But if it is my partner, I'd say something because I'd assume they'd want to know. Please, please, please, always tell me if I stink! I can fix that!!

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?
Oh... such a hard one. I really want to say that I would be honest. But most likely I would grin and bear it for as long as possible if it was a really good friend. Friends are so important. Maybe being so far away from most of my friends, influences this answer.

Again, I am answering these questions as a single person. I'm looking forward to reading more responses. The times I find it hardest to be honest is when I hate a shirt they are wearing and they love it. I just can't bring myself to tell them the truth.

[always2late]

There are a few questions I ask myself when it comes to honesty. Is what I'm about to say necessary? And will it damage the relationship if I do not volunteer this information? Is the revelation of the information necessary for the relationship to continue? For example, I don't volunteer information about my past relationships if I'm not asked. I don't see this as being dishonest, I just don't see what benefit this has to a current relationship. This also holds true for attraction. Being in a relationship doesn't mean that what I found physically attractive before the relationship has changed. It's possible to glimpse someone and think them attractive. Does that mean I'm going to disrespect my partner or the boundaries of our relationship? Of course not. But, is it necessary for me to "confess" this to my partner when no wrongdoing has occurred? Is it necessary for the health and longevity of our relationship? As for some of the other examples the OP posed. Arguments - I don't apologize if I've done nothing wrong. That is patronizing. If I've said something in the heat of an argument that is hurtful, I will apologize. Sexual satisfaction - ALWAYS honest! And I would want my partner to be completely honest with me as well! Why have an issue where there doesn't have to be one? I want my partner to be satisfied (and I would hope that they would want the same for me), so why be coy about it? There is a saying that in a healthy relationship, sex is only 1% of it, but if there is a problem in that area, it becomes 99% of the relationship. I find that to be true...an unsatisfactory sex life can color the rest of the relationship. Breath/Body odor - again, honesty is always the best policy! As my mother used to say "only someone who cares about you will tell you when your face is dirty." Lol. Friends - if I didn't like my partner's friends, I would first carefully examine the reasons WHY I didn't like them. Is it some misguided insecurity or misplaced jealousy on my part? Or is it because they are being disrespectful to me? My answer to this really depends on why the dislike is there in the first place.

[blush]

got this thread topic idea from another thread I'm participating in.

You often hear, "Honesty is the best policy" but is it really? Is there a such thing as too much honesty in a relationship?

Here's where I'm coming from:

I'm a person with Asperger's syndrome. Since childhood, I've always been incredibly blunt and I never quite understood the concept of "time and place". If something is wrong, I point it out and try to "fix" it right away before it festers like an open sore. That's the core of who I am. Now, having said that, I've learned recently about this thing called "gesturing". That, in order to be in a successful relationship there has to be a lot of what I consider a "special type of lying" in order to maintain that relationship.

For example:


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?


Are you completely blunt and honest with each other all of the time? Is there a time when being too honest might seriously damage the relationship? Or do you think letting too many things "go" in a relationship will end up in a serious blow-up or break-up?

After an argument, we both apologize. Usually, one of us apologizes "more," but arguments never start in a vacuum. We both take responsibility for our part.

As to fleeting attractions, I don't really care enough to ask. I'm pretty sure he'd be honest, as I would to him, but its insignificant.

I don't fake. I'm too selfish.

I wouldn't live with chronic breath or body odor. I'd say something if it was constant.

I'd be honest about my feeling about his friends (we haven't had this issue), but try to be understanding.

As far as total and complete honesty at all times, in all situations, no matter what is a bit tiresome. I don't need to be told every morning I have morning breath. Its assumed I'll brush my teeth. If my favorite dress is a bit tight this month, I'd rather he didn't point it out. However, if my new dress makes me look like a Victorian lampshade, I'd want to know that.

In general, I think the key word is blunt vs. honest. Some couples can handle a lot of blunt, some couples can handle a little blunt. I think honesty is always good, but honest and tack is better. But I have a dear friend who thrives in her relationship because he tells it to her straight, no sugar. The objective is to find that right balance.

[blush]

Blunt is not always received well by highly sensitive people.


Or just people, whether they be highly sensitive or medium sensitive.:)

Other random thoughts about the topic:
There can be a thin line between blunt and rude. A case could be made that forms of emotional abuse begin with brutally cruel "honesty." However the honesty is applied, it should always be respectful.

[meridiantoo]

I got this thread topic idea from another thread I'm participating in.

You often hear, "Honesty is the best policy" but is it really? Is there a such thing as too much honesty in a relationship?

Here's where I'm coming from:

I'm a person with Asperger's syndrome. Since childhood, I've always been incredibly blunt and I never quite understood the concept of "time and place". If something is wrong, I point it out and try to "fix" it right away before it festers like an open sore. That's the core of who I am. Now, having said that, I've learned recently about this thing called "gesturing". That, in order to be in a successful relationship there has to be a lot of what I consider a "special type of lying" in order to maintain that relationship.

For example:


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?


These are sensitive topics for people in committed relationships and I've only found, through trial and error, that sometimes it is considered "best" to tell white lies about these things and avoid honesty to keep the relationship in smooth-sailing waters.

Since I know most people who will respond to this thread have neurotypically-wired brains, I don't expect that posters will see things the way I see them (black and white) but I'm very curious about the overall idea of gesturing and how it is used (or if it is used) in your relationship.

Are you completely blunt and honest with each other all of the time? Is there a time when being too honest might seriously damage the relationship? Or do you think letting too many things "go" in a relationship will end up in a serious blow-up or break-up?

Where do you, personally, draw the line?



I love this thread; it's a great topic.

I am blunt at times also, without realizing so until it's too late. I also am a 'fixer' by nature and want to address things before they fester. My partner thinks this is overrated and unnecessary. Her favorite response is, "If it's not broken, it doesn't need fixing." :blink:


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong? I always apologize for my part in the argument, whatever that may be, even if I am right about the argument topic. It takes 2 to argue. I love being right. But, I love learning more. I don't apologize for repeatedly bringing up a topic that we eventually argue over if it's something important to me or to the relationship.


Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked? I don't deny it when I was momentarily paying attention to something else at the expense of ignoring her. I do not even consider others in a romantic way, so that's not an issue for me. If someone catches her eye, I don't want to know.


Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest? I don't fake it. If something was not okay to me or not as thrilling for me, I will at a later time bring up the topic to discuss. I don't fake orgasms or fake being turned on or tuned in.


Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it? Everyone has morning breath or not so fresh breath after eating some things (garlic, etc.). I don't share my distaste for that. We are human. Body odor is hard to ignore for me. But, I don't seem to have that issue with my partner. In past relationships, I never said anything either, but it was not chronic.


Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it? I respect my partner's choice in friends, even if I would not choose them for myself. I would never mention my dislike of her friend unless it was a matter of her getting hurt or something unethical happening. But, I can't imagine this would ever be the case.



I would say she is more honest in that she says pretty much what she thinks uncensored. :twitch: I censor what I say to deliver it as best I can. I am not always successful at that, especially if I have not had time to think on it before I say something. I think total and unabashed honesty is unnecessary and harmful to a positive relationship. There is a grey area or middle ground where you address what is important and accept those things not so important, as blush mentioned. It's determining where issues lie on that spectrum that is so difficult, for me.

:clover:

[Angeltoes]

I would not apologize when I know I'm right, but there have been times when I knew I was right and I was actually wrong. I think we all have had that experience. With that in mind I think it's important to focus on word choices and empathy for the person you care about even when you're in the midst of an argument.

It's not likely that anyone else would catch my eye, but if that happened I think I would be honest. I personally don't like it when someone tries to deny what is perfectly obvious. It's insulting on so many levels. It's better to be honest about that sort of thing.

Sexual satisfaction is something everyone should be honest about with their partner. My idea of honesty is not saying whatever mean comment pops into your head. If you care about someone you ask how they feel and tell them how you think things could be better. Yes, it's good to be honest but not mean.

Breath and body odor is an interesting subject. I suppose you could tell them how you love it when they smell fresh and clean from the shower and you could consistently bring up the subject of hygiene but apply it to yourself until they get the point. That would be a really tough situation.

I would probably say so right away if I didn't like a friend. There would have to be a valid reason is and I would focus on that reason and be honest that 'no I don't like your friend who ignores me and flirts with you.' That's the way I am. I don't claim to be the most mature person in the world, but we all have our limits, strengths and weaknesses.

[Soft*Silver]

I too like the idea of this thread and it actually addresses some things that have baffled me as well. I am not diagnosed with Aspergers but I have at times gotten lost in the ways of relating to other humans.

I am a confusing to myself because many times people have told me how sensitive I am and how they feel so comfortable telling me things, or they appreciate how I can read into them and know just what to say.

And yet, other times, I am accused of being totaly insensitive, of not honing in on what someone wants from a conversation/discussion and sliding right over an obvious declaration (verbal or non verbal) of need.

I know both are true. But why is it I can be so sleuthy in regard to one person or discussion and so thick in regard to another?

so I HAVE been pondering this and this is what I know to be true of me:

I can be soft in my approach. The softness usually comes into play when I am in need to protect the other person. But soft doesnt mean hesitant. I am still blunt, just softer about it. It was one of my best styles of communication with my clients as a therapist. I could get the message across, but with a embrace of safety and acceptance from me as well.

However, I havent been a therapist in a long time.

I spend alot of my time angry. Most of it has to do with being hurt. I am working on this and it has gotten much better. I have found that I can be pretty blunt when something about someone provokes this ember of anger within me.

so thats one way I am blunt and I am aware of this.

but there are other times when I get called on the carpet for being insensitive, too blunt, and I am just dumbfounded. I "thought" I was sensitive. Or at least aware and in tune to the person, not laying in on him or her, but relaying my message. And in these cases, I am so lost, I cant even tell you what I am doing, in order for me to explain what has happened. I dont know what has happened! Its only afterwards, when I am told, that I become aware of this insensitivity. In fact, often, I cant even see it after I am told it!

I would like to know if anyone else experiences this. Sometimes, I feel like Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory, as he tries to figure out if someone is joking or serious. Sarcastic or not. A joke or just a statement.

so now that I said all that, I want to answer your questions too:

Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
yes. When I cant see when I have been insensitive, and am told I have been, I do apologize. Just because I cant understand why they feel that way, THEY FEEL THAT WAY. and that was not my intent. I do not engage with people to make them feel bad, usually. (sometimes I do want them to feel bad. Call me a bitch. But its an honesty. Piss me off and you will see this side of me. Hurt someone I love and you will see this side of me) So, if I have indeed made someone upset when it wasnt my intent, yes I will apologize. For that. But not for what I needed to say. I will acknowledge I could have said it a different way. And then ask them to help me figure out a way so I can try to do that if there is a next time with them.

Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
tough one. Some of it depends on the other person, how uncomfortable or insecure they are. This is not a deal breaker for me in regard to relationships. I know too well, the wounded soul. Sometimes people arrive in relationships still hurting from past shit others have done to them and made them insecure and damaged. So if they cant tolerate me appreciating something attractive in another person, I can remain silent about it. However, if they continually accuse me of looking at someone else (which i dont do) then it becomes an issue that could be a deal breaker. I can be sensitive about their insecurity but I wont be constantly accused of being technically unfaithful to them. Thats a bigger hole than I want to try to climb out of...

Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?


Both. yes, Both. I do not always orgasm. I still enjoy the physical intimacy of sex and can be extremely aroused...but I do not orgasm regularly. It has very little to do with the skill of the other person. (well....maybe...some...) It has to do with my mechanics. (private knowledge and not for public. However, its a physical thing, not a mental one) I am FINE with it. I am up front about it. But oh god, it becomes a challenge with some people. They have to fix me. They have to be the ONE to make me cum. I can be as honest as Abraham, but if I dont fake it sometimes, the other person ends up feeling like shit. I have ended relationships because the other person needed me to cum more than I needed myself to cum. I dont want to have to lie in a relationship. So I end it eventually if the other person cant deal. Thankfully chrissy is just fine about it. While he wishes I could cum all the time (so do I, for that fact), he knows it just aint gonna happen so we relax and have our fun without the pressure. Thank god.

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
I absolutely say something. And this is one area where people tell me they appreciate my honesty. In fact, in trade school I was elected by my class to be the person to pull someone aside and tell them they had a body or breath odor or their uniform wasnt clean or that their own hair needed more attention. (I was in cosmetology class)

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?
sometimes when people get into relationships, their friends arent always happy about it. Suddenly their friend isnt always available to hang out with them as often. Or the dynamic changes when a new person is added to a mix of people who have been friends for years. I had horrible experiences with two past relationships where friends were possessive about the person I was involved with and blatantly worked to break us up. Obviously it worked. LOL. THEY had no problem telling my partners they didnt like me or the relationship. Why wouldnt I say I didnt like them either? In fact, the more dysfunctional they got about me, the worse I became about them. Sad, but true, I actually fell into the whole dysfunctional dynamic.

When I met chrissy, I realized right off the bat, I did not like his best friend. Unlike the past experiences, when I told chrissy this, he didnt try to change my mind or defend his friend, or accuse me of being judgemental. All he said was "oh well". He doesnt need me to adore his friend. I honor and respect their relationship and have grown to even find things I like about his friend. But chrissy didnt need my approval. And I didnt expect him to banish his friend from our life. His simple and mature acceptance of my feelings kept it from blowing out of proportion.

Now, do I white lie? Of course I do. Everyone does. However, if I have to do it alot in a relationship, something isnt working right. Some balance of power is askew. I cant even come up with a good example of a white lie with chrissy. That is indicative of how few times I resort to this. White lies should be in the parameter of harmless. If they are in the danger zone of harmful, they arent white lies. They are building blocks for a fort of deception.

I will tell you that chrissy is appreciatively blunt with everyone and everything. And not stupidly so. He has a measurement of honesty in everything he says. And intelligence. The man is super smart and credible in his assessments of people and life. I trust in his words. He calls me on my shit all the time. and not in a derogatory manner. As my submissive, he is very humble regarding his service to me. It would be an afront to him, to lie to me about myself. When he addresses me in regard to honesty, it is with reverence. Yet, he pulls no punches. He has an incredible way of worshiping me, with candor. He will not lie to me to save me from feeling hurt. I HATE when people do that. It is one of the top ten sins someone can do to to me. (I can still remember one of my exes telling me she didnt tell me she was unhappy in our relationship because she didnt want to hurt me...but she cheated on me and left me for the other woman. Guess I got hurt anyways, right? She lied to me to spare my feelings then hurt me worse than telling me the truth would have hurt me.) When chrissy tells me something, I am told it with love. Regardless of what it is, its always the truth. And I trust in that. Others might not be able to handle his level of truth. Its one of the main reasons I could fall in love with him.

[Sun]

Or just people, whether they be highly sensitive or medium sensitive.:)

Other random thoughts about the topic:
There can be a thin line between blunt and rude. A case could be made that forms of emotional abuse begin with brutally cruel "honesty." However the honesty is applied, it should always be respectful.

Excellent points. Perhaps I should have used the term "sensitive" with no qualifier. As for the line into emotional abuse, a partner who is sensitive should know at what point a comment is going to hurt or offend. If two people have formed an intimate bond, understanding the emotional sensitivity of the person that they have bonded with is important to the health of the relationship.

I agree, comments made in honesty should always be respectful. A good tip for those of us who are single and or dating, listen to how the person who you are getting to know delivers information not just to you but to others in their life. Listen to what they find amusing, how they relate to people that they care about and how they like to communicate. Pay attention to how they handle feedback at work, within a family structure, or in a classroom.

Can they process feedback and integrate it into something useful or are they always offended? Do they rise to a challenge or do they paint themselves as the victim when something goes wrong?

Do they flare up in anger? Do they shut down? Do they remain calm in a stressful situation?

Some of these clues will tell us how they may communicate with us if we are to get involved.

Another thought, as part of the "getting to know each other" process, talk about communication. Be direct about how you communicate and what you need in that realm.

[Scuba]

If someone says "be honest" and "I can take it" then they must also be prepared to hear it. Folks have said this to me and then walked away absolutely furious with me the minute I opened my mouth.

There are times when I will refrain from honesty if I think it will cause more problems than it will solve. I've also been chastised for this. It's been a bit of a catch 22 in my life at times.

Sometimes, even in the best attempt to be sensitive and compassionate, things are preordained to not go well. I can't control someone's reaction nor am I responsible for it. One approach may work well for some and not others. I won't always be able to determine this in the moment. Some folks we know better than others. Sometimes people have bad days. There are so many things (not necessarily related to the situation at hand) that can influence how honesty is received that it is incumbent on both parties to navigate and negotiate timing in discussing and any hurt feelings that go along with honesty.

My overall philosophy regarding relationships of any kind is rooted in absolute trust. If you and your partner have established a safe environment for discussing sensitive issues than these issues become harmless or are ones which can easily be discussed and resolved.

Just my two cents...

Scoobs

[thedivahrrrself]

I've learned recently about this thing called "gesturing". That, in order to be in a successful relationship there has to be a lot of what I consider a "special type of lying" in order to maintain that relationship.

For example:


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?


Are you completely blunt and honest with each other all of the time? Is there a time when being too honest might seriously damage the relationship? Or do you think letting too many things "go" in a relationship will end up in a serious blow-up or break-up?

Where do you, personally, draw the line?


This is a tough one for me as well, as I am a conflict-avoider. So, I have exactly the opposite problem from you.


Arguments - I tend to panic during arguments. I apologize for everything, whether I'm wrong, right, or even if there's nothing to apologize for. This gets a bit annoying, I think. Some people never apologize for anything at all, however. That is also annoying.
If I could control my emotional brain, I would say NO, never apologize for anything you're not sorry for, but take the time to listen and try to appreciate the other person's perspective before you decide you're not at fault.

Attraction - I kind of agree with SuddenlyWest here. I get SO few opportunities to find someone attractive - let me enjoy it for a moment! LOL I don't mind if the person I'm dating finds someone attractive, as long as they don't compare me to said attractive person. I think this is one of those "if asked, be honest" things (the unspoken rule being don't bring it up if not asked!).

Sexual Satisfaction - that's a tough one. faking it over and over means you're never going to be satisfied, so not a good idea. faking it once, when you're having an off day and just can't get there, might not be the worst idea. I guess the bottom line is whether they are responsible for your lack of satisfaction (e.g. doing stuff you don't like) or you are (e.g. can't get out of your head long enough to enjoy yourself). If it's them, say something.

Odor - OMG please say something! First, because if you had bad odor, you would also want to know. Second, scent is such a strong factor in attraction, you are going to have to address it or your will eventually stop being attracted.

Friends - oooo, that's a sticky one. I'd say don't ever insult anyone's friends (or family) unless you've been in the relationship for a LONG time. While it's OK to say how that person relates to you ("Nadia & I don't seem to have much in common." or "Zach's sexist humor kind of annoys me. Why don't you two hang out alone?"), it is NOT OK to attack someone's character who you don't really know. ("Carol is such a loser - why do you hang out with her?") All this will do is drive a wedge between you and your partner.

[Daktari]

Excellent points. Perhaps I should have used the term "sensitive" with no qualifier. As for the line into emotional abuse, a partner who is sensitive should know at what point a comment is going to hurt or offend. If two people have formed an intimate bond, understanding the emotional sensitivity of the person that they have bonded with is important to the health of the relationship.

I agree, comments made in honesty should always be respectful. A good tip for those of us who are single and or dating, listen to how the person who you are getting to know delivers information not just to you but to others in their life. Listen to what they find amusing, how they relate to people that they care about and how they like to communicate. Pay attention to how they handle feedback at work, within a family structure, or in a classroom.

Can they process feedback and integrate it into something useful or are they always offended? Do they rise to a challenge or do they paint themselves as the victim when something goes wrong?

Do they flare up in anger? Do they shut down? Do they remain calm in a stressful situation?

Some of these clues will tell us how they may communicate with us if we are to get involved.

Another thought, as part of the "getting to know each other" process, talk about communication. Be direct about how you communicate and what you need in that realm.

I would ask who quantifies 'sensitive'.

I would also ask, respectfully, that you speak from a 'me' and 'I' place rather than a 'those of us who are' or 'you' or 'we' place.

:chaplin:

[MsTinkerbelly]

•Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong? I will never apologize for being right, but I might apologize for blowing up or becoming irrational---I have BPD so my reactions can be overblown if caught off-guard.
•Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked? Neither one of us are a-sexual, we are gonna see other people and notice.
•Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest? Always honest, why bother otherwise?
•Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it? Say something in private.
•Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it? Unless that person was doing something harmful to either one of us, I would probably grin and bear it. To each is own....

About honesty...I said above I have BPD, and if she is not honest with me then I begin to see my perceptions as being real, which if unchecked can create a whole bunch of other problems.

[CA_BabyCakes]

Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
I would apologize for the arguement, but i would never apologize for something that is right.
Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?I know people say it is human nature to look, but when i am with someone I only have eyes for them, i cant see myself looking at another person in any romantic way
Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?I would never fake, you cant fix a problem by pretending it isnt there or covering for someone.
Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it? There are usually simple solutions for this so i would tell the person very gently what the issue is.
Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?If i don't like a person, usually there is something they have said or done that has brought their character down. I would not allow the person I am with to be used or mistreated, so I most certainly would say something if this was occuring.


Some things, although they are truth, hurt to hear. I guess the trick is to say the truth as gently as possible, and of course even the gentlest words hurt then its a sensitive subject.

Sometimes those little white lies can build on top of each other and create a giant thorn.

[Breathless]

great thread topic!

For me it boils down to this. Simply, you are my friend or my lover because I love and trust you. I expect the truth. Not negotiable. Your opinion matters to me, but it does not have the final say. However i do value it, or i would not have asked. I will apologize in an argument, because what I said was hard to hear and it hurt your feelings, not because I thought I was in the wrong. I'm arguing my point cause I think I'm right, you may change my stand point with your opinion, it has happened :) if I am in the wrong, I will be the first to admit it.
Personal hygiene issues, I will tell you, quietly, and discretely, and I would want the same. No one likes to be embarrassed or have a situation like that made into spectacle of any sort.
I notice attractive people, ill admit to it, heck ill even point them out so you can enjoy too. There is no shame in saying it, wow she has great hair, or that person is really buff.
Friends, I'm not going to like all your friends and I'm okay with that. I try to keep positive people in my close knit circle, but I won't tell you who you can and cannot be friends with. I won't lie, if asked what I think, but I won't offer my opinion unless asked.
Sometimes the truth can be hurtful, or hard to hear, but I want it, and I give it. Tact and respect in place. Like that old saying rather be hurt with the truth than betrayed with a lie.

[pinkgeek]

If someone says "be honest" and "I can take it" then they must also be prepared to hear it. Folks have said this to me and then walked away absolutely furious with me the minute I opened my mouth.


I think it's important for people to qualify "I can take it" with "but I reserve the right to be pissed". At least that how I do it. You can tell me whatever you want, it probably won't get under my skin, if it does it's on me not the person being honest. Chances are if it pisses me of there is some self reflection I'm about to do.

Arguments - Do you apologize when you know you're not wrong?
Yeah no, I have communication skills and I employ them liberally. Seems to stave off this kind of avoidance tactic.

Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked? Why would I? Chances are if I think someone is hot or sexy etc. whoever I'm with will too. It's the joy of being and being with a pervert.

Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?Life is too short to fake anything especially sex. It should be glorious! If it's not I'm out.

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it? Not saying something doesn't do anyone any favors.

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it? Given that my fiance knows me pretty well if I didn't say anything the lie would be so obvious I may as well have. If I don't like someone there is a good reason.

Honesty is the best policy and while it causes the occasional bump in the road it's far more problematic to for me when people play along, pretend or avoid conflict. I realize I'm in the minority on this one, I'm good with it.

[Breathless]

add to the above, cause I couldnt edit.. lol

Sex is like cooking. If you tell me you like it, really like it, you are going to have it every second sunday for the next 50 years.. might as well be honest right up front. I don't fake it, can't really. I will tell you, at the moment, 'Can you do that, or this... ' After the fact, I will even point out, when you did that.. that really rocked my world.. or that really didn't work for me, and be open to discuss further. Everyone likes it a little different, everyone has different experiences and different skill levels, if you don't communicate what you like and don't like, you are setting yourself and your partner up for failure.
People sometimes forget that the negatives are focused on, and a balance of positive needs to be inplace too. 'Those jeans you wore last night, well we almost didnt make it out last night .. *winks*'

In my opinion, in good relationships people talk with one another, in great relationships they communicate, the good the bad and the inbetweens, that is where the bonds are built, structure built on lies, half truths, is like a house of cards.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Wow! These are all such great responses. I think, in my own personal experience, I have dated very sensitive people who get offended quite easily. On the other hand, I am one of these same people. Because of my own communication issues and social confusion, I've very often gotten into arguments where it felt as though I was dropped off a cliff and straight into the action. I don't even know how they started or what I did to provoke it! Such is the pitfalls of again, being in relationships with those who are quick to be hurt and/or flare in anger.

I think, as others have said, it truly does depend on the partnership. Some people thrive on bluntness while others are more tactful or may even choose to avoid conflict. I think the key is finding someone whose communication style meshes well with yours. A very sensitive soul is probably not going to do well being in a relationship with somebody who is quick and blunt in their observations. On the other hand, there are other people out there who actually need to be hit over the head with a brick. Definitely to each their own.

These responses have also helped me to see that have never enjoyed healthy, respectful communication in a romantic relationship. Sad, but good to know that this is a possibility in the future. Since my last relationship, which was quite verbally abusive, I've set my expectations a lot higher as I have a greater respect for myself.

Great conversation!

:)

[Daktari]

When did 'sensitive' become such a perjorative?

[Miss Scarlett]

Honesty should always be respectful but there are times when you just have to be blunt...i.e. if the other party just doesn't seem to be getting the message. I run into this all the time at work and have found that it's usually because the client has an unrealistic notion stuck in their head.

It's possible to be blunt without being rude. Not that I am condoning rudeness but there are times when that's all you've got left. And it is possible to do this without being intentionally hurtful or hateful...how the other party interprets your words is up to them. There's never any justifiable reason (at least for me) to be mean.

Something I've learned over the years...first and foremost, you have to be honest with yourself. Not always pleasant but necessary.

[puddin']

i neva thought it did, or should be pejorative. honest is honest. bring it on, but be respectful as you say it... no need to be intentionally hurtful.

[Jean_TX]

Interesting topic. My responses:

Arguments - Do you apologize when you know you're not wrong?

Whether or not I apologize for something is situational:

I will not apologize for who I am, even though I might agree that my trait which is being criticized is a 'fault'.

I will apologize for my actions if those actions (regardless of whether I think they were right or wrong) hurt my partner.

If the argument deals with a difference in non-critical preferences or choices, I am likely to apologize. I have found that the satisfaction of 'being right' in minor disputes is rarely worth the wounds inflicted on a relationship.

In general, I will apologize for arguing at all - keeping the relationship intact is more important that 'saving face'.

Attraction - Do you deny that someone else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?

To me, it is disrespectful to my partner to let someone else "catch my eye". To prevent this from happening, I flip a switch in my brain so that I do not really 'see' other women who I encounter in person.

This 'switch' isn't operative when viewing women in the media, since my partner couldn't/shouldn't be threatened. In this case, I would not volunteer that I found someone attractive. I would admit it if asked, but I would certainly downplay the attraction.

Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?

I try to be honest, yet at the same time, sensitive to my partner's ego. If I make any comments at all, I try to provide positive guidance (e.g., "You know, something I really like is ...")

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?

I will say something if the odor really bothers me, but I would be try to be sensitive (i.e., criticize the odor, not my partner).

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?

If the friend tends to spend a lot of time with us, I would tell my partner. I would try to be as non-critical as possible and simply say something like "I just don't click with ...", or "I feel uncomfortable with...". That would allow my partner to still associate with her friend, and hopefully allow me to opt out of spending time with her friend.

[Sun]

add to the above, cause I couldnt edit.. lol

Sex is like cooking. If you tell me you like it, really like it, you are going to have it every second sunday for the next 50 years.. might as well be honest right up front. I don't fake it, can't really. I will tell you, at the moment, 'Can you do that, or this... ' After the fact, I will even point out, when you did that.. that really rocked my world.. or that really didn't work for me, and be open to discuss further. Everyone likes it a little different, everyone has different experiences and different skill levels, if you don't communicate what you like and don't like, you are setting yourself and your partner up for failure.
People sometimes forget that the negatives are focused on, and a balance of positive needs to be inplace too. 'Those jeans you wore last night, well we almost didnt make it out last night .. *winks*'

In my opinion, in good relationships people talk with one another, in great relationships they communicate, the good the bad and the inbetweens, that is where the bonds are built, structure built on lies, half truths, is like a house of cards.


Great reply. Love the "Sex is Like Cooking" piece.

[dixie]

Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
I'm one of those folks that apologizes all the time for anything and everything, whether I'm wrong or right, or whether or not it's even something that *I* should be apologizing for...i.e. "Awww you're grouchy today? I'm sorry." However...in an actual argument? I don't like arguing and my response method is to automatically go on the defensive. I will apologize genuinely but if it is ignored or the same thing brought up repeatedly I will not apologize again. Depending on how far blown the argument is, I won't apologize, come hell or high water, no matter if I'm right or wrong. I'm hella stubborn that way.

Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
Pffffffft. What's the point in that? I'm easily distracted. *Ooh shiny!* If I see an attractive person, butch or femme, I will even point them out and ask if the person accompanying me also finds them attractive.

Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
I have been known to fake things in the past, just to keep from hurting someone's feelings. Nowadays, I will not fake but instead will *gently* guide them. If they don't take a hint I will talk with them about it afterwards, in open discussion. If they still don't get it (or make no effort)...then they will not have another chance at it.

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Yes I will say something, even if it's subtly offering them a mint or something. I would hope someone would do the same for me, as well as pointing out if my skirt is tucked into my tights!! lol

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?
I have zero problem telling people what I think of them, their friends, or anyone else for that matter. Does that mean I would act rudely? No. I am polite to a fault, unless someone is rude to me. THEN politeness will not come so easily for me. If that is the case, I will not put myself in a situation to be around that person again.



I honestly don't think *sensitive* has anything to do with how a person is affected by honesty or the lack thereof. I am not a sensitive person by any means, yet there are times when I am affected in a sensitive manner by either lies or brutal honesty. It is all situational.

I also agree that negatives and positives must be balanced. I tend to be overly positive in my dealings with others yet overly negative in my views of myself. I need to find a way to balance that out. For myself relationship-wise, I am the type of person that too much negative actions/behaviors by the other person will put me off...completely. Also if they are negative in their dealings with me. I'm a Leo. I need a certain amount of positive attention and ego stroking myself, or things will not go so well lol. I prefer honesty in how people deal with me though, yet at times I almost prefer not knowing anything at all. Sometimes I would like to live in blissful ignorance. Once again, all situational. *shrug*

[Ciaran]

If I was totally honest all the time, then, irrespective of how sensitive I deliver the message, I'd very quickly get into trouble.


I wouldn't lie about big things or issues that are important to me (or to the other person) but, depending on the context etc, I will sometimes tell a white lie.


For example, if someone tells me that they've just got a new hairstyle, I'll likely tell them that it looks really nice - whether I think it does or not. It's just polite, inane conversation to me (I cannot do polite, inane conversation well as I don't like conversation for conversation's sake - I find it arduous) but, if i like or at least don't dislike the person, I'd likely tell them a white lie to avoid causing any offence.


Important or serious issues? I'll tell the truth - and, depending on the context, will be as blunt and upfront as is required to ensure that nothing gets lost in translation. When it's necessary, I deliver hard messages. I won't deliver it in a way that is deliberately framed to cause offence (unless I dislike the person) but, the potential of causing offence, isn't enough for me to stay silent or tell the person something that they want to hear if it's not the truth.

[blush]

When did 'sensitive' become such a perjorative?

About the time it became a synonym for weak or hysterical. Rarely is the word sensitive used in a neutral way. Context is everything, and I'm sure we can cough up examples of it being a compliment. It is usually (especially on the context of this conversation), leveled at people to excuse bad behavior. As in: "you're too sensitive, all I said was you look like elephant riding a bike! C'mon! That's funny!"

It places the responsibility of being "too sensitive" on the offended. The responsibility is on the offender for being "too much of a tool."

[Dude]

Honesty is hard, sometimes awkward and many times embarrassing
but I give it and want it.

I have learned to say things like , I liked your hair better before :|

I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about
passive aggressive behaviour and how to not get sucked into it myself ,
with a few co workers.
What I have read is it is also a form of dishonesty.
If people cant be honest with themselves about how they are
feeling and why , they sure as hell ain't gonna be honest with you.
The only healthy option is to disengage and not get caught up in the crazy making.

I told myself , I was stinky today. Stress sweat is way stinkier :|
The people who tell me I've got grease on my face or my zipper
is down are all keepers. The people who let me walk around like
that all fucking day , not so much.
Boogers are a part of life too and I want to know about them if one should come a creepin ( sure as shit , you know they will , somehow , someway , someday)
I have one friend at work who asks me if any bats are coming out of his cave.
I don't like looking but he knows I wont lie and I like that.

I am sensitive. I think the good parts of me would not be there, if I was not.
I've had people keep the truth from me , deciding for me whether
I could handle it or not. If you want to insult me to the core , do this.
That is a form of codependency (control) and not welcomed in my world.
If you deserve the truth , so do I.

I could not be with someone who did not appreciate attractive people.
You have to have trust to do that comfortably.
Trust comes from honesty on every level , at least for me.
Never is there too much honesty but kindness in the delivery are huge to the outcome.

[Girl_On_Fire]

About the time it became a synonym for weak or hysterical. Rarely is the word sensitive used in a neutral way. Context is everything, and I'm sure we can cough up examples of it being a compliment. It is usually (especially on the context of this conversation), leveled at people to excuse bad behavior. As in: "you're too sensitive, all I said was you look like elephant riding a bike! C'mon! That's funny!"

It places the responsibility of being "too sensitive" on the offended. The responsibility is on the offender for being "too much of a tool."

*laughs* You make a good point. I can only speak for myself but I use the word "sensitive" in this particular context, I mean someone who has a past history of being abused (in childhood particularly) and is therefore hard-wired to take what might be perceived as gentle criticisms or generic observations of behavior as an onslaught or attack.

I am in no way criticising anyone who falls into this category as I fall into it myself. I used to be an incredibly defensive person who reacted to a slight practically before it even occurred. It took me time to realize that not everybody on the planet was out to hurt me but it was I who had to do the hard work and make changes. Nobody else could have done that for me.

I just find, for me, I am not emotionally compatible with people who are that much like me in that respect. After seriously dating two people who were both sensitive and reactionary in this way, I discovered I need a different dynamic. Someone who is more calm and easy-going to balance out my anxious, fiery nature. Two anxious and easily-triggered people can have a difficult time staying together because even minor arguments or disagreements can quickly escalate into flashbacks to the past.

When in a relationship of this kind, it can get to the point where one or both parties are simply holding their breath and walking on eggshells all the time. Forget honesty, you don't even know if you can exhale. This is incredibly unhealthy.

Can anyone else relate?

[Sun]

About the time it became a synonym for weak or hysterical. Rarely is the word sensitive used in a neutral way. Context is everything, and I'm sure we can cough up examples of it being a compliment. It is usually (especially on the context of this conversation), leveled at people to excuse bad behavior. As in: "you're too sensitive, all I said was you look like elephant riding a bike! C'mon! That's funny!"

It places the responsibility of being "too sensitive" on the offended. The responsibility is on the offender for being "too much of a tool."

Context is everything for sure. When I used the term "highly sensitive person" I was referring to the psychological profile HSP. I have experienced the HSP in a long term partner and in discussion regarding personality types. There is a book called "The Highly Sensitive Person" (http://www.hsperson.com/) that helped me to understand my long term partner who self identified as HSP. One trait of the HSP that I experienced is that she was "easily overwhelmed" by things that may not bother some other people such as violent television programming, graphic images of violence, someone yelling, humankind's general inhumanity toward humankind or cruelty toward animals.

This ex partner is a very gentle, kind, loving soul. There were times when she took feedback very badly even when delivered in a gentle kind way. I am not referring to feedback that came from me about any of the subjects that were listed in the OP but feedback from parents, co workers, classmates. Perhaps to say that there is an emotionally fragile aspect to her would be a good way of putting it. That very kind, gentle soul is very lovely and very much introverted. When I read the book The Highly Sensitive Person, and discussed this with a few friends, they too read the book and said that they could relate to many traits. In this forum, I was not clear that HSP may not be a term that is readily used or understood. My error.

So..the word "sensitive" is not for me a synonym for weak or hysterical and never have I personally told anyone that they were being "too sensitive". Everyone is different and when feedback is given in a romantic relationship (meaning a relationship where two people have agreed that they are together in a relationship and are working toward the health of that relationship) it is still my opinion that delivery is everything.

Anyone who really knows me would say that I am sensitive. I think that this has its positive and negative aspects. That is fine with me. When it comes to the health and welfare of innocent animals or children who can not defend themselves my level of sensitivity goes up. That is just a part of who I am and I am ok with that. Insensitive cruel mean spirited people do not last long in my realm.

[blush]

Just to be clear, I wasn't calling out other posters who mentioned "sensitivity" in their posts. It's a tricky word, and we all come to it with different schema.

I can be passive aggressive, but not THAT passive aggressive. :praying:

[Sun]

Just to be clear, I wasn't calling out other posters who mentioned "sensitivity" in their posts. It's a tricky word, and we all come to it with different schema.

I can be passive aggressive, but not THAT passive aggressive. :praying:

It is a tricky word and with so many ways of defining it, it is probably good to discuss it :)

I appreciate your perspective.

[Ginger]

Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?

No. But I've learned to say things I mean, like "I'm sorry that you feel hurt."



Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?

No. If someone asks, I respect their apparent judgement that they can handle the answer. And if they can't handle the answer, I would rather know, so I can better assess whether that is someone I want to be with in the long run.



Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?

I would never, ever fake being satisfied. If there's a disconnect, how can it get better, without admitting it's there?



Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?

I would gently say something like, "I really want to kiss you, but do you think you could brush your teeth?" I've learned though that when a person's kid smells really bad or has wretched breath, it's best to keep it to yourself.



Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?

I don't do "grin and bear it" very well. If I don't like my partner's friend; I mean, he or she seems a decent sort, just not my cup of tea, I just don't hang out with them. I have my own friends and don't expect a partner's friends to be my friends or the other way around. Of course I am also flexible. If there is a special occasion, like if that friend has an important gathering my partner wants me to attend with her, of course I would do that.

[agape]

I got this thread topic idea from another thread I'm participating in.

You often hear, "Honesty is the best policy" but is it really? Is there a such thing as too much honesty in a relationship?

Here's where I'm coming from:

I'm a person with Asperger's syndrome. Since childhood, I've always been incredibly blunt and I never quite understood the concept of "time and place". If something is wrong, I point it out and try to "fix" it right away before it festers like an open sore. That's the core of who I am. Now, having said that, I've learned recently about this thing called "gesturing". That, in order to be in a successful relationship there has to be a lot of what I consider a "special type of lying" in order to maintain that relationship.

For example:


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?


These are sensitive topics for people in committed relationships and I've only found, through trial and error, that sometimes it is considered "best" to tell white lies about these things and avoid honesty to keep the relationship in smooth-sailing waters.

Since I know most people who will respond to this thread have neurotypically-wired brains, I don't expect that posters will see things the way I see them (black and white) but I'm very curious about the overall idea of gesturing and how it is used (or if it is used) in your relationship.

Are you completely blunt and honest with each other all of the time? Is there a time when being too honest might seriously damage the relationship? Or do you think letting too many things "go" in a relationship will end up in a serious blow-up or break-up?

Where do you, personally, draw the line?

Well, I'm usually considered "too honest" and I often seem to get into trouble for that... In the end, I start keeping too much to myself and that seems to be disliked too...

I'm having a very hard time with what ppl call "white lies", to me I don't see any reason why someone would lie about small things like someones hair-cut for example. If I look bad, I would like to know!

Of course, one doesn't have to be rude either and also just because sth is true doesn't mean you must say it out loud...

Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?
Sometimes I might, since being right or wrong depends on one's point of view...

Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?
I normally don't deny it, but it depends on the situation...


Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?
I'm always honest about that.

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Since I have a very strong sense of smell I feel I would have to tell someone very close to me or else I couldn't live with the person... In other cases I try to endure until I can get away...

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?
I'm pretty sure I would, if I was expected to spend a lot of time with the friend. I can't see why that would be rude in any way. To me, it's like stating that I don't like my partners favorite ice cream, would that be rude? Even when together, we are two different persons and can't always like the same things, food or ppl...

BUT I have no problem to lie to protect myself and the ones I love. That's where my limit goes...

[Ginger]

I wanted to add, I didn't learn how to tell a social lie till I was in my forties.

Now I do things like, if I don't have plans for Christmas, and someone at work I don't know well asks me what I'm doing, I say I'll be at a friend's house. Or if someone asks if I had a great weekend and I didn't, I'll say it was productive or restful or some bullshit like that.

I save the vulnerable side of myself for people I trust and love. And it took me a long time to learn that's okay, maybe because I was so terrified of my parents when I was growing up, and didn't develop judgment about when it's okay to lie.

So I guess I erred on the side of full disclosure at all times. And yes, telling the truth has also gotten me into trouble with people, trouble that was unnecessary in the long run.

[Nic]

Everyone lies. It's why people lie that's of more interest to me.

Don't like my feelings being protected. It's not to my benefit. But I understand why people do it. Always have to ask myself, do I make it hard to talk to me; do I create an environment that isn't conducive to communicating; how did it go last time someone had to tell me something hard? It's on me to be open to honesty or I might not be getting it. Why would someone beat their head against a wall if I'm not going to hear them?

I tell people if they have B.O. or whatever. I want to know so I'm backing up what I want with what I'm willing to do.

Attraction happens to everyone. Big deal. I talk about it only if it becomes a problem.

Sex is hard to comment on, for me. Had 1 serious gf before dating the woman who became my wife. She's been dead for 4 years and I'm not at that stage with the girl I'm dating right now. So, at 52 years old, I've only ever had sex with 2 women. When I was married we had a pretty honest approach to it and a couple of decades to get it right. Guess we figured that if we wanted it to be good we were going to have to figure out talk about it! Took us a few years to get to a place where our egos didn't need to show up for the conversation. Being determined to work things out doesn't mean you're going to be successful at the conversation. Being willing to keep at it might be the key. Sex is always hard to discuss for some people. You don't know what you're getting into until you have an experience with someone. It can't possibly be the same conversation or even the same KIND of conversation with any 2 people. You don't know what's going on for them or what history they have until you're in that space with them. You work out the obstacles or you don't. Guess it depends on how much you want someone to be part of your life. I like the "sex is like cooking" thought. Great way to describe it.

Arguing is the same personal ego conversation sex is, IMO. My wife and I used to hold hands while we argued. Definitely gives the argument a different energy when you have to sit close enough to touch one another. Had a disagreement with my girl yesterday and I reached out to hold her hand and she was shocked. She said "I always wished I could do this when I was in an argument with someone I love!" Everything I was annoyed about wasn't important after that because it was the first time she said she loved me. Important things fall into place and unimportant things fall by the wayside when you're holding on to one another. Arguing is usually about misunderstanding or ego. If it's not either of those things, and you differ from one another so much that you can't let go of your own POV long enough to see a way through or around or over an obstacle then maybe the issue isn't really what you're arguing about at the moment. Maybe it's bigger than that.

Great topic.

[agape]

I wanted to add, I didn't learn how to tell a social lie till I was in my forties.

Now I do things like, if I don't have plans for Christmas, and someone at work I don't know well asks me what I'm doing, I say I'll be at a friend's house. Or if someone asks if I had a great weekend and I didn't, I'll say it was productive or restful or some bullshit like that.

I save the vulnerable side of myself for people I trust and love. And it took me a long time to learn that's okay, maybe because I was so terrified of my parents when I was growing up, and didn't develop judgment about when it's okay to lie.

So I guess I erred on the side of full disclosure at all times. And yes, telling the truth has also gotten me into trouble with people, trouble that was unnecessary in the long run.

I think I would count that as protecting oneself... I don't see anything wrong with that... (not that my approval is necessary -just saying-)

[Sweet Bliss]

This topic is one of my favorites. I hear from others, "I don't lie, cheat or steal. " and I say, "of course you do ". Admitting it is the first step towards open communication.

I am truthful about myself to the best of my ability. Yes I have blind spots. That doesn't make me a liar. We all have occasions when we lie.

Roomie : do we have any chips left?

Me: no they're all gone.

Roomie : you ate them all!

Me: no I didn't.

Roomie : you liar,you ate them all!

Me: look. I'm trying to avoid making you throw up. I opened the bag, and roaches were in the chips. Happy now? I tossed them.

She couldn't eat the rest of the evening.

Don't badger me to spill my guts if you can't deal. Keep your egocentric attitude under your hat. What choices I make regarding my life pertain only to me. Personally I couldn't care less what you would or wouldn't do if you were me. You aren't me. I'm not you either. Unless you walk ten miles in my place your commentary is moot.

Being blunt is rarely my MO. Few folks can handle it.

Just be honest with me, is the battle cry, followed by them attacking me for my"honest answers. "

There is no way to predict what version of "truth " someone is expecting from you. My experience has been that the "truth " is not what they are after.

They want assurance.

[Ginger]

...

Being blunt is rarely my MO. Few folks can handle it.

Just be honest with me, is the battle cry, followed by them attacking me for my"honest answers. "

There is no way to predict what version of "truth " someone is expecting from you. My experience has been that the "truth " is not what they are after.

They want assurance.


I think you're right and sometimes I choose to tell the truth whether someone wants to hear it or not—it feels validating to me, sometimes, to be seen clearly, and it's worth alienating someone, even someone I care deeply about.

I've also learned that it's okay to lie if it makes a situation less awkward with someone I'll never see again. Someone asked me out not long ago and I didn't want to go out with her. I didn't say, You're not my type, I just said, I'm not dating now, I'm taking a break. Why make someone feel bad? I assume others have done the same to me.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?
Since I have a very strong sense of smell I feel I would have to tell someone very close to me or else I couldn't live with the person... In other cases I try to endure until I can get away...



I'm very sensitive to smells too. It's terrible. Bad breath or lack of hygiene is a deal-breaker for me. It's an instant turn-off.

I agree with what others have said on this thread. Everybody lies. Even I lie occasionally but I fail to understand people who seem to spend their lives lying as though it's completely normal.

I was dating somebody a few months ago and found out hy lied about hys age when I accidentally caught sight of hys license. I'm like, "Really?" Then, hy got offended that I told my family. What!? If you're lying about your age and get that angry when somebody shares it openly with their family then you've got a few issues.

[Ciaran]

If I was totally honest all the time, then, irrespective of how sensitive I deliver the message, I'd very quickly get into trouble.

For example, if someone tells me that they've just got a new hairstyle, I'll likely tell them that it looks really nice - whether I think it does or not. It's just polite, inane conversation to me but, if i like or at least don't dislike the person, I'd likely tell them a white lie to avoid causing any offence.




Well, I'm usually considered "too honest" and I often seem to get into trouble for that... In the end, I start keeping too much to myself and that seems to be disliked too...

I'm having a very hard time with what ppl call "white lies", to me I don't see any reason why someone would lie about small things like someones hair-cut for example. If I look bad, I would like to know!



I will happily "lie" about such things. It depends on context to me.

For example, last week I met a friend for a coffee and she had a very large Coach bag. I'd never seen her with this before and as a middle-income earner with a young family, it is a luxury that she couldn't afford on a regular basis.

I didn't think it looked nice (because of the colour and a bit on the large size) but I immediately complimented her on her nice her bag was. I did this because I thought she'd be happy with the compliment, as she appeared to be, and it gets the conversation off to a reasonable start.

Does that make me insincere? Maybe. Does it make me a bad person? No, although many other things about me do.

It's the same when someone asks me about their haircut or a dress that they are wearing. Often they are not asking for an honest critique but, rather, for validation. If I think that they are looking for validation, then I'll validate where possible. Of course, if it looks ridiculous, I'd politely say something - it's all about context.


Take, for example, someone who is wearing a new dress on a night out. I don't particularly like it but, if asked, I'll try to be complimentary about the dress and how the lady is wearing it.


On the other hand, if my friend shows me the dress because she bought it and is having second thoughts, thinking of taking it back, then I'll feel more able to give an honest critique and, diplomatically, will do so.

[agape]

Actually, I didn't read all the comments before I posted my reply so I didn't see you had written sth about hair-cuts...
What I wrote, I didn't mean as a criticism against white-lying in general... What I meant is more that I'm having a hard time with the whole thing for reasons like this:

I truly am incapable of telling white lies and sometimes it feels like a slight social handicap not to be able to in some occasions do so... meaning: I wish I could, then I would!
I personally want my friends true opinion when I ask how I look so I sometimes forget that no everyone wants that...
I often feel I can tell when someone is lying and it can be very confusing in the long run when surrounded by ppl who tell white lies too often... (in the end I don't know what to believe...)


I will happily "lie" about such things. It depends on context to me.

I totally agree that it depends on the context!

Once I was out with friends at a place without mirrors. At some point during the evening my make up got ruined and I basically looked like a raccoon the entire evening... My friends didn't say anything so I realized how I looked when I finally got home. I find that them not telling me was way more rude than if they would actually tell me so I can do something about it.



Does that make me insincere? Maybe. Does it make me a bad person? No, although many other things about me do.

I too often give compliments -I don't find it insincere. Just because I personally don't like something doesn't mean it cannot be seen as nice by others... One can almost always find something nice to say to others.

I most definitely wouldn't think of white-lying as something that would make someone a "bad person". What's "good" and "bad" always depends on the situation imo...




It's the same when someone asks me about their haircut or a dress that they are wearing. Often they are not asking for an honest critique but, rather, for validation. If I think that they are looking for validation, then I'll validate where possible. Of course, if it looks ridiculous, I'd politely say something - it's all about context.


Take, for example, someone who is wearing a new dress on a night out. I don't particularly like it but, if asked, I'll try to be complimentary about the dress and how the lady is wearing it.

In my case if I realize the person is actually looking for validation (hard to know what is in ppl's heads...) then I will try to avoid the question. I might turn the question back at the person or avoid answering it... I can try to find sth I like in the dress or the person so I can give a fair compliment -just like you said (if I understood correctly).

What I can't do is tell someone "you look great" when I find they don't. I'm not saying it's bad to do so I just personally can't do it and don't like it when others do it to me... Also, I don't understand why my opinion of other ppl's looks would be of any interest. I'm not so much into looks, I'm more like into the "energy" of a person, what it feels like when I'm around them... but that's a whole different story...



On the other hand, if my friend shows me the dress because she bought it and is having second thoughts, thinking of taking it back, then I'll feel more able to give an honest critique and, diplomatically, will do so.

That's exactly the type of situation I would find mean to not tell the truth. So totally agree on that one as well!

I would like to share another example: There is this very handsome butch at my work and once when we were having a break she took of her "working-hat" (I don't know how they are called) and said: "I know, my hair looks like a mess". Obviously she didn't want to hear what her hair looked like and I felt I couldn't say "oh no, it looks great" when we both knew very well that it didn't... So I replied sth like: "oh, I don't care about stuff like that" which is very true I really don't care about looks so much.

So I guess I can be a bit of a diplomat too...
Had I been completely honest I would probably say sth like: "oh, you could shave your head for all I care, I would still find you smokin hot but since you have a girlfriend and you are a co-worker you are more like look but don't touch for me. Not to mention you are probably out of my league as well..."

It's a good think ppl can't read minds isn't it? ;) lol

[Breathless]

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[Cin]

Honesty is kind of a funny thing. By funny I don’t necessarily mean haha funny, although at times it is that, I mean that honesty in terms of what is true is oddly obscure and often difficult to pin down. The reality is that honesty and truth are not interchangeable. Frequently they are not the same thing at all and are often worlds apart in thought, word and deed.

It would be nice if truth were black and white and easily understood when talking in terms of honesty. I have found that what is my truth today is not always my truth tomorrow. And I have a hard time feeling any depth of allegiance to something so abstract, fleeting and changeable. So while I could always answer honestly about how I see it today or how I am feeling about something at any given moment I am not the barometer of truth for anyone. I am wary of acting as a truth bringer for someone else. Do I like your purse or your dress or your choice of reading material? Who cares really? I could tell you honestly how I feel about any of those things or a number of others, but seriously what does that tell you about the purse or the dress or the book your are reading, or anything else for that matter? My answer would give you information about me. It would tell you about the kinds of clothes I like and the books I enjoy as well as give you a window into how I treat other human beings. But it would give you little information about the actual object or subject in question. So to me when someone asks something about their personal choices I understand it to mean that they are less interested in my personal opinion than they are in being made to feel validated about their choices. We all need that.

I tell myself that the person is not going to be comforted to hear that I think their dress is funny looking and the sleeves make me want to laugh out loud or that their bag is ridiculous and to me it looks like they are ready for a day or two at the beach. My opinion, that the bag could do double duty as a cooler and if I added a plastic liner and some ice or an ice pack I could keep my drinks and my food cold all day, is not something that needs to be shared with the owner of said bag. Likewise they don’t need to know that I find their choice of reading material misguided at best. Who the hell am I? I mean opinions are like assholes and mine is no more valid or less prone to bullshit than anyone else’s. I’m not even going to get started on the unconscious motivations or hidden agendas that are often deeply buried behind our so-called honesty.

For me, when I love people, my desire is to support them. I don’t find telling them I think their haircut is less than flattering is supportive. No matter how much honesty I believe I owe them. Or how nicely and kindly I choose to say it. If I am looking to always tell the truth, then the truth is that I don’t believe I am qualified to give an opinion regarding fashion or hairstyles. Nor am I a book, film or art critic. And if you are interested in me as a person you are already clear on my choice of fashion, film, art and reading material, as well as a host of other things. If you are paying attention, you know me. So when you ask me how I like your hair or your clothes you already know if it is something I would choose. And if it is not and you still ask me then you are looking for something other than my feelings about said object. You are asking me about how I feel about the thing in reference to YOU. How do I like it on you? I love you so I support your personal choices. I want you to express yourself. I don’t want you to express me. I can do that myself. So I will choose to answer in a way that is supportive of your expression of yourself.

As far as smelly people, I have found they are not surprised to know they smell. There are plethoras of honest people walking about dying to share their truth so there is little chance I would be the first to inform them of their offensive odor. I figure if they haven’t done something about it by now they are probably not going to just because I choose to be the bearer of the honest truth for them. So I could still tell them, but I have to be honest with myself if I choose to do that. I must understand that I am doing it because their stink pisses me off and I want them to know it and not because I believe I am doing them any favors.

I am fortunate that I have no relatives who have hygiene issues and I would not choose to have a close personal relationship with someone who has poor hygiene. So if someone who I love happened to smell for any reason it would be temporary and situational like working out hard or eating garlic shrimp and I wouldn’t feel the need to rush them into the shower or hand them a bottle of mouth wash even if I honestly felt that would be the best thing for them to do. I have never been in a relationship with anyone who felt inclined to go out or go to work after working out or eating onions without showering, brushing their teeth, gargling with mouth wash and sucking on a breath mint. And if someone chooses to do this, I doubt it’s because nobody has had the good manners to be honest with them. I think it is a much different problem than a lack of honesty from close personal friends and family.

As far as sex goes, for me it is important to be real.

When it comes to arguments, I will apologize for my part. I don’t look at an argument as a win/lose kind of thing, at least I try not to. I believe in compromise so I very rarely feel I am so right that I can’t be wrong.

I find myself disliking very few people and never have I disliked a friend of a partner. I like some people better than others but I rarely actively dislike anyone. So it’s hard to imagine what I might do. I’d like to think I would not feel it necessary to make my feelings about my wife’s friend matter at all.

I used to think that letting too many things "go" in a relationship would end up in a serious blow-up or break-up so I always tried for a resolution. I was never willing to let anything go. It had to be processed and worked through until everyone was satisfied. I was exhausting. Now I often mentally wander away from an argument long before it is resolved. I get bored with fighting. I don’t have to win. I don’t even have to always be understood. I seriously think about how important is something compared to my love for my wife. I don’t feel that I’m being compromised as a person by letting stuff go. Or that I’m stuffing my feelings. I never stuff my feelings. Noone who is close to me ever wonders how I feel about something. It’s just that I don’t make my feelings the truth of anything. Just because I feel some way doesn’t mean I have to get my way.

I like to think that honesty is important to me, but it is not the kind of honesty that needs to tell someone what I think about their clothes or their hairstyle or their friends. It’s more an honesty of commitment, an honesty of emotional depth and openness, an honesty of the heart, a willingness to show you honestly and fearlessly who I am. And If I am in a relationship with someone who has the depth of love and the strength of character to do that for me, the kind of honesty they will get back will be honest love and compassion and an honest desire to protect and honor what they have shown me. And an honest acceptance without judgment of who they are.

[agape]

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[LeftWriteFemme]

Telling this much truth.......maybe not such a good idea

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRttQQB8pA_twFksFvKTV3oG3LF_X3Mc 8Mhv1GSxKjqHcVBIrbalA

[Redsunflower]

Hi there Girl_On_Fire

Thanks for this thread, it's really interesting, just thought I'd share a few thoughts of my own.


Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?

No, not ever, but I will always apologise for inadvertently hurting my partner when trying to talk about something that might be sensitive. An apology goes a long way in helping to resolve things, but only if you really are sorry.


Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?

I've not had much bother with this, when I'm with someone I genuinely only have eyes for them, I don't tend to notice anyone else. And if my partner feels that for someone else, I don't want to hear about it.


Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?

Faking it seems a bit pointless so I don't bother. But looking back on relationships when I was much younger, I think there was probably a lot of faking it going on, on both sides, without realising it, probably because it can take a while to figure out exactly what you want, and also learn to then ask for it.


Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?

This one's brilliant, I love a partner who smells strongly of sweat, mud, socks, whatever, it's a total turn-on for me, and I also enjoy being with that partner in a bed that hasn't had the sheets changed in weeks and weeks and weeks. The stinkier the better, I know it's odd, but god how I love it.

I, on the other hand, prefer to smell like Armani She.


Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?

I don't believe I need to like my partner's friends but life is certainly much easier if I do. I only once had a partner whose friends were really awful, but it was mostly around not respecting our relationship, treating her as if she was still single, so yes I told my partner I didn't like it and she felt the same, so we dealt with it together and that was fine. Otherwise, I'm happy to respect my partner's friendships even if I don't care much for those people, as long as it doesn't impact on my relationship.

[Smiling]

In accordance with my spiritual beliefs, these are the criteria I try to use before I speak my truth (with emphasis on the phrase "I try" because I am still very much a work in progress).

1. Is it true?
2. Is it kind?
3. Is it necessary?

Also, I would add a 4th when it comes to brutal honesty.
4. Is it going to affect the outcome or the general situation in a positive way?

For instance, you know that someone has plans to physically or mentally cause harm to another person and you warn that party to avoid a certain situation or individual(s). In that case, obviously my answer is going to be to tell them in order to protect them from potential harm. (And of course, if it is an actionable threat, contact the appropriate authorities).

On the other hand, if it is just mutual friends/acquaintances discussing how stupid they think a friend's new haircut/outfit, etc. looks, then no; I do not feel it necessary to repeat that sort of nonsense. Neither do I think it makes me any less authentic as a friend or otherwise to not do so. I would, however, put a stop to that sort of discussion were it taking place in front of me.

My motto with my closest friends is if I am asked a direct question, I will not lie. However, neither will I go out of my way to say something that I feel is unnecessarily hurtful. And I have found that amongst those closest friends, it is often not what is being said but how it is delivered that makes a lot of difference in how it is received; whether they have specifically asked for the feedback or not.

Just a point of clarification - I don't believe anyone I know would be hurt to be told they had spinach in their teeth, etc; so in those instances I would opt to say something.

[dark_crystal]

I will lie my ass off about things like haircut, hair color, tattoos, outfit (once we have left the house), large purchases (house/car), etc

for the simple reason that the thing is usually already done before my opinion is sought

If someone has just cut their waist-length hair completely off, there is no way in hell I would say anything at all that isn't "OMG OMG YOU LOOK INCREDIBLE WOW"

Not even "i liked it better before"

And that brings me to my main criteria for honesty, which is "will it be productive?"

If my honesty will help the person or the situation, I am honest

If it will do more harm than good, I will, as I said, happily lie my ass off

[dark_crystal]

I will also lie my ass off to people whose reactions tend to be extreme:

If you are a person who hits the roof if you feel like someone is questioning you, you do not get my honesty

If you are a person who will drag everyone through a two-hour guilt and recrimination session after the slightest hint of criticism, you don't get my honesty

If you are a person who has to win every argument no matter how long it takes, then yes, i will dishonestly apologize for something I don't really believe is my fault just to shut you up

However, if you are any of these three people, we are not going to be dating so a lot of this won't come up

[dark_crystal]

OH!

Also I will lie my ass off to people I don't know very well, for example

Husband of a friend of a friend: "kids today have no work ethic, don't you agree?"
Me: "sure"

[dark_crystal]

<--------- is, apparently, a big fat liar

[Asari]

Arguments - Do you aplogize when you know you're not wrong?

Not for what I said, but for the way I said it or for bad timing.

Attraction - Do you deny that someone or something else caught your eye for a just moment when asked?

That's not a problem for me so... no.

Sexual Satisfaction - Do you fake it or are you honest?

I guess I wouldn't fake it.

Breath/Body Odor - Do you say something or live with it?

When I'm really close to that person I would talk about it (actually had that situation with a good friend of mine).

Friends - Would you tell your partner if you didn't like one their friends or just grin and bear it?

Hm. I usually have a good reason not to like someone and probably would tell my partner and maybe I was wrong about that friend and even change my mind.




Where do you, personally, draw the line?

I'm more like this:
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Can be pretty awkward... but I don't talk very much about shallow things in general and my friends are used to my quiet character.