Attraction = physical, mental, emotional...

[SassyLeo]

This weekend, my sweetie and I were talking about attraction.

On Friday night we had gone out to a local queer event and both of us had dressed up. If you were to see us together, I think most would immediately identify us as a butch-femme couple in the stereotypical appearance – I am feminine and she is more masculine. However she does not identify as butch. She is quite passionate about NOT labeling herself.

Again, I know not all of us fit or appear in the f/m roles…but I am speaking more broadly.

So she said to me the next day “You looked so pretty last night”. And of course it felt wonderful to hear that. I said thank you…she smiled and said “I looked pretty too” We kind of laughed about it and then I said, “Well, yes, however that is not the word I would have used to describe what I thought.” She said with her eyebrow cocked, “…are you thinking of a masculine word?” (which is kind of triggering for her) And I said, “Well, I was thinking more like cute, adorable, sexy…” She liked those :eyebat:

So we started talking about what attracted us to each other. We met sort of online (through LJ-thanks Lips!) and exchanged some emails and read each others LJ before meeting. When I first saw her waiting outside the restaurant, I thought she was really cute, but honestly was just trying to make new friends since moving to PDX. She asked if I would be attracted to her if she appeared more feminine…and I said, probably not. Not that I would not think she was an attractive person, but I am traditionally more attracted to female bodied/identifying but not feminine appearing women. She, on the other hand, has dated all over the map…and is one of the only people I truly know who does not base her attraction in any way by their appearance. At least this is how she sees it.

One time I told her many of the things I loved about her (not appearance based) and the added bonus was that she was very cute. She said her added bonus (of me) was that I was hygienically correct :p

So I got to thinking. Would I have been attracted to her if she was more feminine appearing? At one time, she had really long died blonde hair. She has always dressed in mostly men’s clothes (at least the past 10-15 years or so) and had short hair for the last 7 or 8. But her hair varies, sometimes shorter/longer. How much of my interest initially, was solely based in her more masculine appearance? I got to know her and liked so much more, obviously… but if she looked more feminine would I have even thought about dating her? And missed out on knowing and loving her? Am I shallow for having some of my initial attracted based on her appearance? I struggle so much with not wanting to take part in the f/m stereotype…but am I doing just that?

I’d love to hear your ideas, thoughts, experiences…

[Enchantress]

Thank you for bringing this subject up. I will be back when I have a bit of time to share my thoughts as well...

[Jett]

Hey you *s*

I totally get what you're saying here and I don't believe it's shallow at all to know what we like and trying to act with that in mind. Physical attraction is a natural part of over-all attractions and I don't think we have a lot of choice what makes out heart go boom.

I'm attracted to female/feminine cues/markers in many different forms and incarnations, but yeah there has to be some outward fem/ factor to heighten my attraction to the next level.

Good thread...

Metro

[Blade]

I agree with Metropolis, I don't think we have a real choice in what trips our trigger. Physical attraction is what normally draws us together in real time. I'm certain there are those who really don't care what someone looks like, but I think those are really few and far between. We know what we are each interested in or a certain way we expect our potential partner to look. Wonder how many of us have "fallen" in love online or over the phone and met someone and ummm this is not what I expected but still had feelings for the person, even though they didn't look like you thought or would have liked for them to look. I know I have.

I like a feminine femme, who doesn't mind getting her fingernails dirty from time to time. However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time. Great thread by the way

[SassyLeo]

Hey you *s*

I totally get what you're saying here and I don't believe it's shallow at all to know what we like and trying to act with that in mind. Physical attraction is a natural part of over-all attractions and I don't think we have a lot of choice what makes out heart go boom.

I'm attracted to female/feminine cues/markers in many different forms and incarnations, but yeah there has to be some outward fem/ factor to heighten my attraction to the next level.

Good thread...

Metro

Thanks Met. I love the "heart go boom" :)

So, I am curious...what do you see as the fem/factor for you?

I agree with Metropolis, I don't think we have a real choice in what trips our trigger. Physical attraction is what normally draws us together in real time. I'm certain there are those who really don't care what someone looks like, but I think those are really few and far between. We know what we are each interested in or a certain way we expect our potential partner to look. Wonder how many of us have "fallen" in love online or over the phone and met someone and ummm this is not what I expected but still had feelings for the person, even though they didn't look like you thought or would have liked for them to look. I know I have.

I like a feminine femme, who doesn't mind getting her fingernails dirty from time to time. However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time. Great thread by the way

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm curious to hear more about this...:However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time."

Do you tend to attract less feminine women? Do you think it is energy driven?

[Blade]

[B][COLOR="royalblue"]Thanks for the feedback!

I'm curious to hear more about this...:However that is not what I seem to attract most of the time."

Do you tend to attract less feminine women? Do you think it is energy driven?

Oh no they are seemingly more high femme, frilly lacey types. Which I love also but the ones I've been with seem to be afraid of getting their fingernails dirty or God forbid broken. LOL I think a woman can be just a sexy and feminine in a pair of jeans and boots with horse crap on them as she can be in fishnets and high heels. And I'd actually be more attracted to a femme if I saw her in jeans and boots for the first time I saw a pic of her than in fishnets and high heels. urrr ummm I think I would

I don't know if it is energy driven or what drives it but it drives me crazy LOL

[Blade]

"The heart wants what it wants"

xoxo
June

Loved this June! I can't tell ya everything I want but I can sure feel it when it appears

[NJFemmie]

I tend to believe that the eyes tell us what to love .. but the heart tells us who to love. (If that makes sense).

Coming from someone who has had relationships "all over the map" to exclusively b/f relationships, and is currently in a long term relationship with someone who does not identify as butch (or femme for that matter) - I think it really all comes down to how a person flips that switch for you.

She would often ask me what attracted me to Her, since She knew I was primarily attracted to butches - but She was someone I could not resist. She pulled on my heartstrings, and I fell in love. She made it go boom. Something I had no control over.

I never really factored in physical appearance as a pre-requisite - HOWEVER - there have been very few instances in my life where I have dated femmes. (It really depended on how strongly I felt about them).

Sometimes, you think you know what you want - but your heart knows best.

I don't think it's shallow if you know what attracts you. But I do also have a tendency to believe in keeping an open mind and listening from "within". But, that's just me. :)

Love, to me, is just that unconditional.

[SassyLeo]

Hey, JennyBoo --

As you know, I am also partnered to a masculine appearing female who abjectly refuses to identify in any way. She also wears mens clothing and has close cropped hair. She gets called Sir a lot at stores, etc.

When I met her, she had shoulder length hair, and did for several years until one day, I got sick of her fussing with it all the time (shoving it out of the way and being pissed about it) and I took her to get her hair cut, telling her just to "Trust me". She did, and was pretty shocked at first, but then after that, she took control of her own hair and it started getting shorter and shorter.

I was attracted to her because of who she was, not how she looked, in that prior to her, I had always dated very masculine butches or Trans Men. Nearly 11 years later, I guess something worked.

I hope she'll come in and talk about this a little bit, because I don't want to tell her story, but I am pretty sure that if I said to her "You look pretty" she would get a bad face. I think she struggles with being feminized, or feeling feminized, and yet she is very much female ID'd.

"The heart wants what it wants"

xoxo
June

Oh yes, they are very similar in this way.

"I think she struggles with being feminized, or feeling feminized, and yet she is very much female ID'd."

Ren gets upset when people attach anything masculine to her, yet very much appears more masculine. It's a struggle for her. I sometimes forget that I can walk through the world and appear as your average straight woman, when she (and kat...and others) don't have the same experience or luxury (sort of???)...

I remember you telling me that story (and also the photo on the fridge) about her hair...and it's weird because I almost didn't realize it was her! It is interesting to me how much identity (or non) attachment there is to hair style or length...

[Words]

"The heart wants what it wants"xoxo
June

I agree that this applies to long-term attraction, but initial attraction?

Nope, definitely not the heart.;)

Words

[Jett]

Thanks Met. I love the "heart go boom" :)

So, I am curious...what do you see as the fem/factor for you?

Ok that's hard (lol). But since we're just talking appearance for me it's as simple as the traditional feminine characteristics. Not necessarily clothes... it's more a natural thing, the hips... defined brows... fuller lips... eyes... maybe hair.

Sometimes all of the above but even one can often be powerful enough to paint the whole picture.

I'd say other than that, clothes or styles aren't as important as I do have a very eclectic taste in that area so I'm attracted to many different personal styles from tough to soft or retro to geeky etc.

Hope that answers your question *s*

Metro

[Blade]

It's the total package for me, not just any one or two things about a femme that attracts me to her.

[atomiczombie]

Good thread. I think that physical appearance is important, and those that say it shouldn't be confuse me. I have had a friend tell me I am shallow for only preferring a certain physical type and not being open-minded about people who don't fit that type. Shallow? I can't help who does it for me, and some physical types just don't no matter what. That includes cisgendered men, which I think most of us on this site can relate to.

My type is femmes. Feminine in appearance, but also in how she carries herself in the world. Graceful, elegant, but also a strength in her femininity. Curvy, can fill out a dress beautifully, but wear pants and be just as sexy. A girl that just oozes femininity from every pore of her body, no matter what she wears or how much or little make-up is applied. I generally don't find super heavy make up to be all that flattering for a girl, for it hides her beauty. Hair in a feminine style, long enough to thread my fingers through. Full lips. Things like that turn me on.

That said, a girl who looks like that can open her mouth and totally ruin it for me. I have had it happen and it is a bit jarring, but it is a lot more than looks that draws me in. A girl who is mature and intelligent and strong in herself, who is gentle and kind and genuinely cares about others and not just in words but deeds as well, who respects herself as well as others, THAT turns me on tremendously. I don't generally find it attractive when a girl puts herself down all the time or goes around putting others down. That really disturbs me. A powerful intellect makes me crazy in a good way. I want someone I can talk to and share ideas with. Even if we disagree, we can learn from each other and respect each other's point of view. I don't expect to be with someone who is perfect in these ways all the time. Everyone is human and so am I. She doesn't have to have it all together all the time. I sure don't. But someone who takes care of herself and refuses to be a door mat gets my respect and admiration.

So yeah, its a lot more than physical. But physical matters, it really does. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I don't think you are shallow at all, Miss Sassy. Your attraction to masculinity in women is just part of who you are, and that, just like every other part of who you are, should be respected by others.

[IrishGrrl]

Very interesting. I've thought about this very thing myself in relation to my husband..and my past relationships. Initially, my eye (and other parts) gravitate toward the traditional masculine appearence. What's wierd is..I dont really go crazy over someone who appears TOO masculine. There has to be that hint of softness...in thier hands, thier face..thier voice..thier eyes.
I too wonder..if my husband had been more feminine "looking" if I would have initially picked him out as someone I wanted to date. These days, I'm much more flexiable about it. I used to only date butches who were pretty masculine. Now when I see butches who are less masculine appearing..it's thier energy I gravitate towards.(if I were single and gravitating!!!)

Another question that plaques me..

Am I the only femme that thinks..even if my partner is female ID'd..that.

I'm the girl
and
you are the boy?

And what does that mean?

[Blade]

SON ya about had me foaming at the mouth there for a little bit....panting panting LOL

Good thread. I think that physical appearance is important, and those that say it shouldn't be confuse me. I have had a friend tell me I am shallow for only preferring a certain physical type and not being open-minded about people who don't fit that type. Shallow? I can't help who does it for me, and some physical types just don't no matter what. That includes cisgendered men, which I think most of us on this site can relate to.

My type is femmes. Feminine in appearance, but also in how she carries herself in the world. Graceful, elegant, but also a strength in her femininity. Curvy, can fill out a dress beautifully, but wear pants and be just as sexy. A girl that just oozes femininity from every pore of her body, no matter what she wears or how much or little make-up is applied. I generally don't find super heavy make up to be all that flattering for a girl, for it hides her beauty. Hair in a feminine style, long enough to thread my fingers through. Full lips. Things like that turn me on.

That said, a girl who looks like that can open her mouth and totally ruin it for me. I have had it happen and it is a bit jarring, but it is a lot more than looks that draws me in. A girl who is mature and intelligent and strong in herself, who is gentle and kind and genuinely cares about others and not just in words but deeds as well, who respects herself as well as others, THAT turns me on tremendously. I don't generally find it attractive when a girl puts herself down all the time or goes around putting others down. That really disturbs me. A powerful intellect makes me crazy in a good way. I want someone I can talk to and share ideas with. Even if we disagree, we can learn from each other and respect each other's point of view. I don't expect to be with someone who is perfect in these ways all the time. Everyone is human and so am I. She doesn't have to have it all together all the time. I sure don't. But someone who takes care of herself and refuses to be a door mat gets my respect and admiration.

So yeah, its a lot more than physical. But physical matters, it really does. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I don't think you are shallow at all, Miss Sassy. Your attraction to masculinity in women is just part of who you are, and that, just like every other part of who you are, should be respected by others.

[SassyLeo]

Thank you for bringing this subject up. I will be back when I have a bit of time to share my thoughts as well...

I look forward to it! :)

[Gemme]

I'm as shallow as tiny trickling creek. I admit it. Own it. Honestly, I probably won't change because if someone can't catch my interest through my eyes, then that's it. End game.

However, what is physically attractive to me is not what floats the boats of others, and I'm thankful for that. Diversity is a beautiful thing!

I have to have someone who counterbalances my femininity. I know what Irish was saying about me=girl, you=boy. I get that, even if many feel it's heteronormative. For me, it's my reality.

I'm secure enough in my insecurity to admit that I feel "less" femme when I am with someone who doesn't balance me....complement me. It's far beyond simply what or who I find attractive; it's tied in with my self-image and how I present myself.

[SassyLeo]

Oh no they are seemingly more high femme, frilly lacey types. Which I love also but the ones I've been with seem to be afraid of getting their fingernails dirty or God forbid broken. LOL I think a woman can be just a sexy and feminine in a pair of jeans and boots with horse crap on them as she can be in fishnets and high heels. And I'd actually be more attracted to a femme if I saw her in jeans and boots for the first time I saw a pic of her than in fishnets and high heels. urrr ummm I think I would

I don't know if it is energy driven or what drives it but it drives me crazy LOL



Thanks for providing more detail! It sounds like it is about how she carries herself, maybe her energy. I have the same kinds of feelings...just on the more masculine side :)

I tend to believe that the eyes tell us what to love .. but the heart tells us who to love. (If that makes sense).

Coming from someone who has had relationships "all over the map" to exclusively b/f relationships, and is currently in a long term relationship with someone who does not identify as butch (or femme for that matter) - I think it really all comes down to how a person flips that switch for you.

She would often ask me what attracted me to Her, since She knew I was primarily attracted to butches - but She was someone I could not resist. She pulled on my heartstrings, and I fell in love. She made it go boom. Something I had no control over.

I never really factored in physical appearance as a pre-requisite - HOWEVER - there have been very few instances in my life where I have dated femmes. (It really depended on how strongly I felt about them).

Sometimes, you think you know what you want - but your heart knows best.

I don't think it's shallow if you know what attracts you. But I do also have a tendency to believe in keeping an open mind and listening from "within". But, that's just me. :)

Love, to me, is just that unconditional.

Thanks for sharing! I definitely agree...in terms of your heart pulling you in a certain direction. But if you meet someone for the first time and on the initial appearance, the person is not your traditional "type" (if you have one), do you think you might still have some kind of initial attraction? If it is really about the person inside, how would you know from a 15 min conversation? I guess maybe I have not experienced that so I don't know? Curiosity :)
I agree that this applies to long-term attraction, but initial attraction?

Nope, definitely not the heart.;)

Words

See, I think this is part of what I am trying to figure out...

Ok that's hard (lol). But since we're just talking appearance for me it's as simple as the traditional feminine characteristics. Not necessarily clothes... it's more a natural thing, the hips... defined brows... fuller lips... eyes... maybe hair.

Sometimes all of the above but even one can often be powerful enough to paint the whole picture.

I'd say other than that, clothes or styles aren't as important as I do have a very eclectic taste in that area so I'm attracted to many different personal styles from tough to soft or retro to geeky etc.

Hope that answers your question *s*

Metro

Thanks Met, yes...it is helpful :)

[UofMfan]

Attraction, to me has to be on all levels, but let’s be honest, initial attraction is almost exclusively physical. This may seem shallow, but it is a reality. For me though, physical attraction is not enough to keep me interested. I need more than a pretty face, otherwise I get bored quickly.

As far as physical attraction, a few years back I came to the realization that I am not willing to compromise. A femme complements my butch, the yin and the yang, etc… I need this dichotomy to be happy in the long run.

Mental attraction is to me the most important, let’s face it, if you can’t keep my mind interested I don’t care how beautiful you are, eventually it will get old for me. I need to be mentally stimulated; I need a complex individual who keeps me on my toes.

Emotional attraction I think develops with the relationship, once and if one is established.

I have more to say but Mercury being retrograde has limited my ability to be articulate…

[Lady Jewel]

For me, its ALL the about the "energy" between myself and the person. Looks dont play into that for me. On many levels. I know this answer sounds simple. But for me it is. How does does the energy interaction feel to me. How does it make me feel emotionally, physically (meaning how does my body react to them), mentally and otherwise.

Warmly,
Jewel

[Sachita]

I have more to say but Mercury being retrograde has limited my ability to be articulate…


Damn that's what up! No wonder!

I need to be physically attracted but its more about chemistry, a connect and our interest need to be compatible. I prefer someone taller then I and stronger. I don't really have a look per se but masculine is a much and someone well groomed.

A person's character is important to me. They have to be a good person, honest, sincere and compassionate. Strong family values are very important to me.

[Jett]

It's the total package for me, not just any one or two things about a femme that attracts me to her.

Oh yeah, the total package in the end, but truth, there can for me be one or two individual factors that initially get me interested in even having a first date to explore the rest (if I was dating).

[SassyLeo]

*snip*
Initially, my eye (and other parts) gravitate toward the traditional masculine appearence. What's wierd is..I dont really go crazy over someone who appears TOO masculine. There has to be that hint of softness...in thier hands, thier face..thier voice..thier eyes.

Me too!


I too wonder..if my husband had been more feminine "looking" if I would have initially picked him out as someone I wanted to date. These days, I'm much more flexiable about it. I used to only date butches who were pretty masculine. Now when I see butches who are less masculine appearing..it's thier energy I gravitate towards.(if I were single and gravitating!!!)

Another question that plaques me..

Am I the only femme that thinks..even if my partner is female ID'd..that.

I'm the girl
and
you are the boy?

And what does that mean?

By appearances, I am more the girl and she is more the boy. I definitely felt some of that in my relationships. Not *as much* with Ren, because we both bring masculine and feminine energies to the table. In the past, that may have played out more...but not now. It's definitely a combo of both.

I'm as shallow as tiny trickling creek. I admit it. Own it. Honestly, I probably won't change because if someone can't catch my interest through my eyes, then that's it. End game.

However, what is physically attractive to me is not what floats the boats of others, and I'm thankful for that. Diversity is a beautiful thing!

I have to have someone who counterbalances my femininity. I know what Irish was saying about me=girl, you=boy. I get that, even if many feel it's heteronormative. For me, it's my reality.

I'm secure enough in my insecurity to admit that I feel "less" femme when I am with someone who doesn't balance me....complement me. It's far beyond simply what or who I find attractive; it's tied in with my self-image and how I present myself.

Thanks for your honesty, Gemme. And great that you have the self-knowledge to know what works for you.

[Jett]

Very interesting. I've thought about this very thing myself in relation to my husband..and my past relationships. Initially, my eye (and other parts) gravitate toward the traditional masculine appearence. What's wierd is..I dont really go crazy over someone who appears TOO masculine. There has to be that hint of softness...in thier hands, thier face..thier voice..thier eyes.
I too wonder..if my husband had been more feminine "looking" if I would have initially picked him out as someone I wanted to date. These days, I'm much more flexiable about it. I used to only date butches who were pretty masculine. Now when I see butches who are less masculine appearing..it's thier energy I gravitate towards.(if I were single and gravitating!!!)

Another question that plaques me..

Am I the only femme that thinks..even if my partner is female ID'd..that.

I'm the girl
and
you are the boy?

And what does that mean?

I'm totally with you in the line of thought that, though I'm attracted to femininity... (outward feminine cues etc) but more does not necessarily equate to more attractive... as in the more stereotypically feminine doesn't raise the woo factor at all.

There is an essence definitely, the outer cues attract but it's the feminine energy that has the woo-ing power.

(I agree with you on the boy/girl thingy too in that context)

Metro

[SassyLeo]

Attraction, to me has to be on all levels, but let’s be honest, initial attraction is almost exclusively physical. This may seem shallow, but it is a reality. For me though, physical attraction is not enough to keep me interested. I need more than a pretty face, otherwise I get bored quickly.

As far as physical attraction, a few years back I came to the realization that I am not willing to compromise. A femme complements my butch, the yin and the yang, etc… I need this dichotomy to be happy in the long run.

Mental attraction is to me the most important, let’s face it, if you can’t keep my mind interested I don’t care how beautiful you are, eventually it will get old for me. I need to be mentally stimulated; I need a complex individual who keeps me on my toes.

Emotional attraction I think develops with the relationship, once and if one is established.

I have more to say but Mercury being retrograde has limited my ability to be articulate…


I agree...if I did not have an emotional connection or be able to hold a decent intelligent conversation, whatever physical attraction I had would be out the window.

For me, its ALL the about the "energy" between myself and the person. Looks dont play into that for me. On many levels. I know this answer sounds simple. But for me it is. How does does the energy interaction feel to me. How does it make me feel emotionally, physically (meaning how does my body react to them), mentally and otherwise.

Warmly,
Jewel

Damn that's what up! No wonder!

I need to be physically attracted but its more about chemistry, a connect and our interest need to be compatible. I prefer someone taller then I and stronger. I don't really have a look per se but masculine is a much and someone well groomed.

A person's character is important to me. They have to be a good person, honest, sincere and compassionate. Strong family values are very important to me.

I get the chemistry thing...totally. But how much chemistry is there when you first meet someone?
So imagine yourself at a social event where there are a mixture of b/f folks. If a feminine appearing person/femme (or the opposite of how you identify) struck up a conversation with you, would you have any physical reaction/attraction to them intially? Or is there a certain type of person whom you might pick out of a crowd as attractive?

[Sachita]

I agree...if I did not have an emotional connection or be able to hold a decent intelligent conversation, whatever physical attraction I had would be out the window.





I get the chemistry thing...totally. But how much chemistry is there when you first meet someone?
So imagine yourself at a social event where there are a mixture of b/f folks. If a feminine appearing person/femme (or the opposite of how you identify) struck up a conversation with you, would you have any physical reaction/attraction to them intially? Or is there a certain type of person whom you might pick out of a crowd as attractive?

Chemistry doesn't always happen for me instantly. Not at all. I have to be attracted and then the interaction and knowing who they are starts to brew chemistry for me. Sometimes it takes a while, even months as it starts to deepen.

I've seen butches and thought "damn, he's hot" but its just not enough to spark something inside. As I get older there are so many other things that set it a flame.

[SassyLeo]

Drew, thanks for your very thoughtful post!

I specifically like "I can't help who does it for me, and some physical types just don't no matter what."

Based on yours and others input, I have been thinking alot about the initial physical attraction to someone. In my experience, I have some kind of chemical/hormonal reaction to a specific type. As much as I want to feel like I would be open to all kinds of types, I am not convinced we are all built that way.

Good thread. I think that physical appearance is important, and those that say it shouldn't be confuse me. I have had a friend tell me I am shallow for only preferring a certain physical type and not being open-minded about people who don't fit that type. Shallow? I can't help who does it for me, and some physical types just don't no matter what. That includes cisgendered men, which I think most of us on this site can relate to.

My type is femmes. Feminine in appearance, but also in how she carries herself in the world. Graceful, elegant, but also a strength in her femininity. Curvy, can fill out a dress beautifully, but wear pants and be just as sexy. A girl that just oozes femininity from every pore of her body, no matter what she wears or how much or little make-up is applied. I generally don't find super heavy make up to be all that flattering for a girl, for it hides her beauty. Hair in a feminine style, long enough to thread my fingers through. Full lips. Things like that turn me on.

That said, a girl who looks like that can open her mouth and totally ruin it for me. I have had it happen and it is a bit jarring, but it is a lot more than looks that draws me in. A girl who is mature and intelligent and strong in herself, who is gentle and kind and genuinely cares about others and not just in words but deeds as well, who respects herself as well as others, THAT turns me on tremendously. I don't generally find it attractive when a girl puts herself down all the time or goes around putting others down. That really disturbs me. A powerful intellect makes me crazy in a good way. I want someone I can talk to and share ideas with. Even if we disagree, we can learn from each other and respect each other's point of view. I don't expect to be with someone who is perfect in these ways all the time. Everyone is human and so am I. She doesn't have to have it all together all the time. I sure don't. But someone who takes care of herself and refuses to be a door mat gets my respect and admiration.

So yeah, its a lot more than physical. But physical matters, it really does. Nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I don't think you are shallow at all, Miss Sassy. Your attraction to masculinity in women is just part of who you are, and that, just like every other part of who you are, should be respected by others.

[Corkey]

Fo me it is Her intelligence, Her kindness towards others, Her smile, Her eyes.
The qualities I look for, and found. I have to be attracted to Her brain first. Yes, physically appealing is a turn on, but if one can't turn my mind on, you sure can't turn my heart on. I'm blessed that She turned my mind on then my heart, there is no other for me, totally hooked, now and forever, Hers.
:givingarose::mobilewheelchair:

[always2late]

I wonder why it is so hard for most people to admit that, when it comes to dating and initial attraction, we are all prejudiced to some extent. (that's right, I said the P word). And really, isn't that what attraction is all about? I don't mean prejudice in a bad way...I mean it in the actual definition of the word. We prejudge, and to some extent, discriminate, based upon what particular features or mannerisms we find attractive. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everything else in a relationship can grow...love, trust, friendship...but that intial attraction, that click, that moment of frission...has GOT to be there. Its not something one can learn, or fake. Its either there or its not.

I like to describe myself as a woman who gets her nails done, but who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty :). But a femme is what I am, whether it be dressed in a skirt and heels on a night out...or dressed in my rattiest, oldest sweatshirt while painting the shed. Its something innate in me, and I couldn't change it if I tried (nor do I want to). I find that in all my relationships the defining factor is this...I am attracted to masculinity. I don't care how my partner identifies, to me its all about their manner, their personality, their particular way of walking in this world. It has nothing to do with how they look, it has to do with who they are inside their skin. Could I be attracted to a feminine woman? Nope. And that doesn't mean I think less of femininity, it just means that it does nothing for me.

Just my two cents.

[FeminineAllure]

For me attraction begins with a deep stirring inside of me on one or all levels. Physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Physically, I have been attracted to many different types even another femme or two. I prefer average to larger builds. Long or short hair. Casual/preppy, the rebel with tattoos and piercings, in uniforms...out of uniforms lol. I have a thing for black boots. A penchant for Daddies and Syrs. A huge one for me is she must be a female identified butch one reason being because I like to touch and love them everywhere. I am physically attracted to someone who is comfortable in their female body. The more masculine their energy the better.
Mentally, I like to be stimulated and learn things from someone or I become bored quickly. I do not need someone from Mensa just be passionate about something, literate, creative, open minded.
Emotionally, I need someone who is compassionate, empathetic, stable, considerate, capable, and consistant. We all have some baggage but I can not be drained by low energy, negative individuals.
Spiritually, I am not a religious person but I am a spiritual one. If you don't believe in something...You may fall for anything. Spiritual bonds are usually between soulmates. They can finish eachothers sentances. They are comfortable with the silences. You kiss them when you meet as strangers yet feel like you have known eachother forever. I want those kind of goosebumps.
I want someone to compliment my life not complete it.
On a closing note, I never expect from someone what I can not bring to the table myself.
And I have learned the hard times in a relationship are the most telling not when things are going smoothly. I want to see my lover raw at times. And comfortable to be so in front of me.

[labete]

Thanks for this thread, Sassy. It's timely for me.

My honey identifies as butch, but she is very strongly female identified and somewhat tentative about the butch part. We've known each other casually for over a decade, and she's seen a few others I've had relationships with and has a butch friend of many years who tends to remind people of a lumberjack. She's compared herself with them and feels "less butch" because she doesn't like getting 'sir', owns some women's clothes, has a short but androgynous hairstyle, etc. Her decorating style is a lot more feminine than mine, but her walk is a lot more masculine.

To me, I think the way a person moves is one of the bigger indicators of a more masculine or feminine energy. The single biggest factor for me in initial attraction, though, was chemistry. I know that might not be the case for folks whose relationships start off differently, but we'd known each other for so long that one night I stayed too late after a bonfire in her backyard and fell asleep in her arms as a friend. I was high for a week after that and knew I wanted that feeling again.

And, I've also had brains be the initial attraction, or personality expressed through writing anyway, long before I had the first clue about appearance. My last relationship started online after I developed an attraction to a butch I knew only from forum postings. Yes, I did see a couple of photos before we met, but they weren't especially flattering. Luckily I found her quite attractive in person, and she felt the same about me.

[Inuus]

Great post! Some parts I could so relate to and have changed the text color. Especially the passionate about something part. Ive always said I dont care what you're passionate about be it knitting, reading, flying a kite something! I couldnt have said it better myself

For me attraction begins with a deep stirring inside of me on one or all levels. Physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
Physically, I have been attracted to many different types even another femme or two. I prefer average to larger builds. Long or short hair. Casual/preppy, the rebel with tattoos and piercings, in uniforms...out of uniforms lol. I have a thing for black boots. A penchant for Daddies and Syrs. A huge one for me is she must be a female identified butch one reason being because I like to touch and love them everywhere. I am physically attracted to someone who is comfortable in their female body. The more masculine their energy the better.
Mentally, I like to be stimulated and learn things from someone or I become bored quickly. I do not need someone from Mensa just be passionate about something, literate, creative, open minded.
Emotionally, I need someone who is compassionate, empathetic, stable, considerate, capable, and consistant. We all have some baggage but I can not be drained by low energy, negative individuals.
Spiritually, I am not a religious person but I am a spiritual one. If you don't believe in something...You may fall for anything. Spiritual bonds are usually between soulmates. They can finish eachothers sentances. They are comfortable with the silences. You kiss them when you meet as strangers yet feel like you have known eachother forever. I want that kind of goosebumps.
I want someone to compliment my life not complete it.
On a closing note, I never expect from someone what I can not bring to the table myself. And I have learned the hard times in a relationship are the most telling not when things are going smoothly. I want to see my lover raw at times. And comfortable to be so in front of me.

[FeminineAllure]

It is way past my bedtime so...I was sitting here thinking, what do blind people do with no visual stimulation? They have use of touch, smell, taste, hearing all available to them. I wonder what initially attracts them to a person? Also, what if your *new* lover you are dating was diagnosed with some illness that may affects their looks?Would you stick around?
I know it is a bit off the topic but I am just curious.

[SassyLeo]

I wonder why it is so hard for most people to admit that, when it comes to dating and initial attraction, we are all prejudiced to some extent. (that's right, I said the P word). And really, isn't that what attraction is all about? I don't mean prejudice in a bad way...I mean it in the actual definition of the word. We prejudge, and to some extent, discriminate, based upon what particular features or mannerisms we find attractive. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everything else in a relationship can grow...love, trust, friendship...but that intial attraction, that click, that moment of frission...has GOT to be there. Its not something one can learn, or fake. Its either there or its not.

I like to describe myself as a woman who gets her nails done, but who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty :). But a femme is what I am, whether it be dressed in a skirt and heels on a night out...or dressed in my rattiest, oldest sweatshirt while painting the shed. Its something innate in me, and I couldn't change it if I tried (nor do I want to). I find that in all my relationships the defining factor is this...I am attracted to masculinity. I don't care how my partner identifies, to me its all about their manner, their personality, their particular way of walking in this world. It has nothing to do with how they look, it has to do with who they are inside their skin. Could I be attracted to a feminine woman? Nope. And that doesn't mean I think less of femininity, it just means that it does nothing for me.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it!

For me, I don't know that I would use the word prejudice, but more preference or predisposition. I don't know that I would be prejudiced against certain looks or appearance, but my preference draws me to a certain type. It's hard for me to use those words in this context, I guess. Maybe because I am hyper aware of using them at all (in my world, they often have negative connotations)

I like this alot, "I am attracted to masculinity. I don't care how my partner identifies, to me its all about their manner, their personality, their particular way of walking in this world."

[Just_G]

It really depends on HOW I meet someone. Like if I meet them here, it is usually their brain, wit, or humor that catches my attention. If I meet them in person, of course it would have to be a physical attraction since I have not even had a conversation with them.

For instance, there is a woman here in KC that I met a while back...when she walked in to my friends party, I thought "damn she is cute...and look at those blue eyes!", then she smiled and said hi, and I knew there was an instant attraction to her. She was wearing a pair of motorcycle boots just like mine, only in brown. She had on jeans and a sweater, and honestly was not the typical woman I am attracted to (speaking of physical traits). I am usually attracted to women that wear heels, have their nails done, etc....come off as femme in appearance to me. (not that I am saying she is not femme, but we are talking about first impressions...visual first impressions....I guess you could say I was stereotyping in a way...bad G!!)

After she sat down next to me and we talked for about two hours, I realized that there was a lot more to her than her looks. Her sense of humor was off the chains! (and if you know me, you KNOW that is like the top of my list kind of important :winky:)

We have been hanging out, shooting pool, texting, going to movies, flirting, and just having fun. I am glad I didn't just judge her looks and move on because I would be missing out on getting to know someone that I think is very fun and special.

In the end, with her, it turns out it is a little bit of everything....mental, physical, emotional, etc. I think there HAS to be a combination of all the elements.

Over the years, as I have gotten older, I have come to realize that it isn't all about looks or physical appearances. I used to have this image in my head of the perfect woman (back in the day I wanted arm candy...I was a jerk, I'll admit that now), but I think I was being rather close minded to the possibilities. I have been attracted to women of all sizes, all hair colors...though blondes tend to make me nervous..lol, labels, you name it.

Anyway, just my .02!:cheesy:

[Corkey]

I was thinking about this last night after I posted, and I came to the conclusion that looks are superficial, really to me they are. I wanted a person I could share the rest of my life with, and as we all know looks change over the years. It is the inner person that matters to me, that connection to spirit that stays the test of time. Beauty is superficial, I've known some "beautiful" people who, when they open their mouths are rather ugly in spirit. I don't associate with that kind of person, and they sure weren't on my radar for a mate. I have a wonderful life mate who shares Her whole being with me, and that to me is where true Beauty lies.

[Words]

Okay, so this is going to sound a bit weird, but bear with me, okay?

Say I'd met B. and Hys sister at the same time. In a sauna. With both of them stark naked. Physically, they are - or rather were, when B. and I first met - very similar: same build, same facial features, same skin tone, etc. B., however, wears Hys hair short in a masculine style, while Hys sister goes for a more feminine look. (Blue also sits 'like a guy' with Hys legs wide open - which certainly would have piqued my interest LOL - but I digress.)

Okay, so who would I have been attracted to? B. of course. But why? Because of a hair style? Shallow as it's going to sound, yes, because even though Hys hair could have looked like shit, it stimulated my primal instinct, i.e., my natural attraction to all things masculine.

(Want to hear even more shallow? B. once put on a blonde wig and some make up and then proceeded to try to fool my differently abled daughter that Hy was actually Hys sister, visiting from the States. It worked, we had a good laugh - all three of us -, and that was that. But honestly? If B. were to ever suggest doing it again, I'd say no. Why? Because sexually, the image of B. with wig and makeup, looking so much like Hys sister, left me cold and yes, B. picked up on it.)

So yep, mental and emotional is definitely important, but again, when it comes to initial attraction, for me, it's all about the physical.

Words

[SassyLeo]

Thanks for this thread, Sassy. It's timely for me.

My honey identifies as butch, but she is very strongly female identified and somewhat tentative about the butch part. We've known each other casually for over a decade, and she's seen a few others I've had relationships with and has a butch friend of many years who tends to remind people of a lumberjack. She's compared herself with them and feels "less butch" because she doesn't like getting 'sir', owns some women's clothes, has a short but androgynous hairstyle, etc. Her decorating style is a lot more feminine than mine, but her walk is a lot more masculine.

To me, I think the way a person moves is one of the bigger indicators of a more masculine or feminine energy. The single biggest factor for me in initial attraction, though, was chemistry. I know that might not be the case for folks whose relationships start off differently, but we'd known each other for so long that one night I stayed too late after a bonfire in her backyard and fell asleep in her arms as a friend. I was high for a week after that and knew I wanted that feeling again.

And, I've also had brains be the initial attraction, or personality expressed through writing anyway, long before I had the first clue about appearance. My last relationship started online after I developed an attraction to a butch I knew only from forum postings. Yes, I did see a couple of photos before we met, but they weren't especially flattering. Luckily I found her quite attractive in person, and she felt the same about me.

there is so much to be said for chemistry. meaning, sometimes our bodies/brains have their own agenda and we have no idea how it happens! maybe you had no idea that you might have that feeling with her because she was always considered only a friend and not someone you would have sought out? was is about her appearance at all? just curious...

i've had amazing chemistry with some folks over the years based purely on sexual attraction and some because i was so intrigued by their brain...but all of them have had a certain appearance.

i guess i do have a "type"

[imperfect_cupcake]

I met inks at a squat party. When she came in I was floored, smacked stupid, by how gorgeous she is. Tall, blonde, dutch, well built, alternative stylish half quiff/half spikey hair and the cockiest, trouble making smirk I'd seen in a long time. So it was a cross between, her very good looks and her physical attitude - by that how her personality played through her body language.

So I was instantly interested enough to investigate how much futher that attraction went. What followed was one big huge CLICK. I knew I had met someone incredibly important in my life, attactions be damned, this person has just made me feel like someone on the planet shares everything I need to be shared with someone else.

first though, before I spoke to her, I listened and watched. and she was obnoxious, mouthy, loud, opinionated, stubborn, firey, but in a way that was fucking funny and non-threatening. she took the piss. I love that.

I then sat next to her, bought her a beer and talked to her - there was no effort to the conversation. neither of us was shy or nervous (nervous came later). She then said all the magic words and phrases that ticked every single box and tickled every single place of joy and whispered to every single place in me that desperately needed to find understanding.

so with inki it was in the order of "PHWAR!" (physically appealing) then "oo'er!" (the attitude and style attraction) and then "gleeful sigh and raukus laughter" (the personality/brain suprise, and that's the glue bit that bonds)

[labete]

there is so much to be said for chemistry. meaning, sometimes our bodies/brains have their own agenda and we have no idea how it happens! maybe you had no idea that you might have that feeling with her because she was always considered only a friend and not someone you would have sought out? was is about her appearance at all? just curious...

i've had amazing chemistry with some folks over the years based purely on sexual attraction and some because i was so intrigued by their brain...but all of them have had a certain appearance.

i guess i do have a "type"

I missed your response to me before. I never looked at her as anything other than a friend because the entire time I knew her, she was partnered (happily, I thought, though I was mistaken). I do not and will not cross that line.

The very first time I thought of her as potentially anything other than friend was when a mutual friend passed along the news that she had just broken up with her partner. Then the thought was instant and appealing, so obviously there had been an element of attraction there that I hadn't been conscious of before, and I'm sure physical appearance was part of that. She is both cute and sexy.

Usually, though, the ones that draw my eyes from across the room are big, strong, strapping butches with a swagger. My honey is shorter than I am, smaller than I'm used to, and doesn't particularly swagger, but the chemistry is definitely there and very real.

[Gemme]

so with inki it was in the order of "PHWAR!" (physically appealing) then "oo'er!" (the attitude and style attraction) and then "gleeful sigh and raukus laughter" (the personality/brain suprise, and that's the glue bit that bonds)

I loved your whole story, but more than anything....I want to HEAR you say this!

I just noticed your engaged heartline. Congrats if it's recent and congrats if it's not and I'm just obvilious. :blink:

:love1:

[Jet]

Only attracted to feminine women. It's presence and demeanor that get me more than anything.

[Andrew, Jr.]

I feel the same way Jet does.

[bigbutchmistie]

For me and I hope Im able to really put my thoughts out. I have to be attracted to someone physically first. Then I wanna get to know them as a person If they arent as beautiful inside its a deal breaker for me.

[adorable]

When physical attraction has come first I have lost my head and stopped listening to my gut reactions. That wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done. BUT I apparently can do the same thing with mental/emotional attractions where I haven't met the person. I don't like either situation because the result can be the same. I struggle between putting on the brakes and just going with it constantly.

I get told I'm pretty all the time. I am most feminine in appearance. I have a gift for attracting exactly the opposite of what I want. My taste in people has always been for those who look mean. The meaner the better. There is just something about them. **sigh**

Last night I met a girl who looked mean. One of my friends had picked her out special for me due to the mean look- and kind of pushed us together. Then she opened her mouth. OMG. She ruined it. I like the mean look. I don't like crass or stupid. Someone really needs to be able to hold an intelligent conversation. She spent most of the night trying to convince me she was a gang member or in some real time mafia. Yeah. Fascinating. Everytime I got up I would go into the bathroom with my friends and try to formulate an escape route. (Yes, this is one of the reasons that girls go to the bathroom in a group.)

I like smart, mean, funny and sexy. The smarter, meaner and funnier they are the sexier they become to me. They also need to know how to act, at least in public, and preferably be able to carry a conversation about something other then sex, violence or sports. It's amazing how many people don't have that ability. If they aren't talking about themselves - then they really have nothing to talk about. That gets old fast. So does the feeling that I have to do all the work to keep things going. Seriously, if it's that hard to talk to me or pay attention to me - forget it. Keep it moving.

[AtLast]

Have to say that some kind of spiritual connection has to be made along with the rest for me to pursue someone....

[Sachita]

Have to say that some kind of spiritual connection has to be made along with the rest for me to pursue someone....

you know I always say this and then forget my own rules. its important for me, essential in my life and my next relationship needs to have this. I think its really important to have things in common. I couldnt see myself with someone that hated the outdoors, gardening and animals. These are spiritual for me. I also need someone thats really really good to me...puts it out there because they feel it from a deep place.

I was with my sister today and we're maybe 4 years apart in age. We both agreed that settling was not an option. It's gotta be all or nothing.

[Hack]

I have found as I get older, my taste in women has evolved. The first thing that always strikes me about a girl these days is comportment or the way she carries herself and presents herself. I am very attracted to girls who clearly enjoy and revel in being a girl.

Initially, though, that is what I am drawn to...how does she carry herself, present herself, behave in public, is she an engaged listener, is she looking about the room and not listening to the person talking to her. I observe all these things. I tend to shy away from loud, obnoxious people in general, and women in particular.

As I get to know a girl, I look for these qualities -- can she make fun of herself, will she playfully make fun of me, sense of humor (a must). An awareness of the world, be it political or social. Does she have a good relationship with her family? That's important to me. Does she enjoy her work and is she good at it? I like girls who are smart, who aren't afraid to try new things or go to places far away. I am also attracted to girls who won't be embarassed by my old-fashioned manners that I have worked hard to refine.

As I get older, I look more, I think, for the elements of companionship -- I feel they are more sustaining to me. To me, there's nothing sexier than a girl who is as smart as she is pretty, and who can tell me her stories without fear, and who will listen to mine.

Jake

[Naneegirl]

If you don’t know someone, if you’re meeting for the first time, there has to be something that makes you want to connect. Putting online aside for a moment, there’s going to be something about the way they look that catches your attention, something that causes that immediate visceral attraction. I’d venture to guess that even online there’s going to be something about the way you assume they look (that picture you build in your head) that catches your attention.

I’ve never really understood why it’s shallow to be attracted to certain physical qualities or why it’s shallow to pursue those attractions.

It seems to be considered a “bad thing about us” if we are only attracted to certain things. If we don’t pursue partnerships outside what we “typically” desire. If we say out loud that we desire xyz and only desire that. Why is that bad? Why is that shallow?

It seems to me that we are assigning a value judgment to our or others desire. Which leads me to ask…if you don’t desire something does that mean you are judging that thing to be bad? If someone does not want to be with you does that mean you are bad/awful/unworthy? Because, often when I’ve heard this type of statement it is said in the context of “you are a shallow (bad thing) if you can’t look beyond your desires”. Because a person doesn’t want to be with you romantically/sexually (whatever) does not mean that they find less value in you as a person? Because you don't want to be romantically/sexually with a person does that make you bad?

Perhaps people can explain what they mean by shallow. As I hear that word it a negative judgment of an act that seems damn typically human to me. We desire what we desire.

[apretty]

i like it when someone is focused on being the best partner that *they* can be and they have the confidence to let me be me--perhaps they don't even understand the things that i do, but they trust me enough to let me do them, let me want what i want, enjoy what i enjoy and be who i am.

i simply won't tolerate someone defining me, putting restrictions on me, labeling what is/isn't femme--that's the fastest way someone can get dumped curb-side. i am naturally feminine--work out your butch/femme stuff on your own time; my opinions, my ready/able/audible voice, my capability doesn't make me less-than--it makes *you* less than for wanting to not be *challenged* by my brilliance...

general you, of course.

lastly, old and well-cared for dogs + understated confidence and a kind heart + pompadour = true love.

[Queerasfck]

a nice rack

[Soft*Silver]

there always has to be that spiritual connection..but it needs to be grounded in earthly things too. I cant be always living in the heavens. I am an earth girl as well. I need the balance between them. I like my partner to have a deep appreciation for himself...so that he doesnt need bolstered by me to feel good about himself. Thats not my job. I can be supportive...but I wont be the crutch.

I have alot of physical types I am attracted to. Best to define what I am not attracted to..and that is femininity.I do like masculinized energy in a partner. And while there was a time when I felt I would only be attracted to male IDd butches and transmen, I am really learning alot via the the threads here and it has opened my eyes in how I regard butches in general. So thank you to all the great posters over on those threads...

mentally I need someone who can have a good conversation with, but I dont need to feel like I am on the witness stand nor am I wanting to feel like I am a student of the "all knowing" or being silenced by overriding opinions. I want someone to listen and discuss...have sensitivity to my words, disagree when necessary and have a pleasant conversation even when we dont agree or see eye to eye. It can be done.

I also need humour in someone I date. I need to see them smile. I dont want someone who finds glee in pestering others, abusing their intelligence by making others feel less than and then reveling in it, and certainly no one who makes off color jokes..none of that will ever fly with me. I just want to read some good political comics together and enjoy a good laugh...or crack up over the noises a baby makes...

emotionally they need to be available and not shut down. Or divorced from their feelings. I am not chasing the stone cold Clint Eastwood cowboy anymore. I like-um with a warm heart and hands that reach out and heart that would hold mine next to it. I need a grown up love, one not so dependent on another that it cant function without a relationship. I am SO ok being single. I have been SO alone IN a relationship. I would rather be alone than lonely.

What makes my head turn to look twice at someone? Caring words spoken. Wisdom. Compassion. Intelligence. Self confidence. Pride without vanity. Open. As in, not closed off. Sensible. Adventurous. A smile with a wink.

the biggest turn on for me? Is someone who is Present to her/himself long before they think to be Present with me.

[Soft*Silver]

oh...and ears. I absolutely need to find their ears appealing. No, I am not kidding...

[apretty]

a nice rack

you're drunk. :unicorn:

[key]

oh...and ears. I absolutely need to find their ears appealing. No, I am not kidding...

http://www.momlogic.com/Elf-Ears.jpg

[AtLast]

Carriage... its all in how she carries herself (Hack mentioned this and I agree). That is what attracts me initially. Sure, most of this right off is physical, but it really only takes a few minutes of talking to a woman to know if there could be a connection. It takes time to really find out if someone has the rest- the mental (intelligence and for me, curiosity and a mind that wants to keep learning), emotional (stability and the ability to be emotionally present) along with a depth of spirit (or the soul as it gives us balance in life). And there are all those musts that both people have and the degrees of mutual acceptance, the possible compromises of some of these.

I don't know if having had a positive LTR with such a woman in the past is a blessing or a curse. Also, age is a factor I think, or simply experience with life's variables in that I have become absolutely unwilling to settle. I find being single to have its negatives, but honestly, I am content and have a full life. Unless someone will truly be additive to my life, I see no reason to be in a relationship. Yes, I get lonely for more the intimacy that being with someone affords and I know that not having the connections that I seek (and are sought by another), would be empty in the long run. I'm very relational by nature, but most of my needs here are met by family and friends. And I give back in those relationships as it should be.

I enjoy dating overall, although I don’t feel I have to continually be dating someone. I’m not really looking. I’m simply open to possibilities if this is what is to be. And sometimes I am just involved with what is in my life and feel satisfied.

I'm grateful for what I have experienced in love and if I died tomorrow, I would die feeling completeness in my life.

[Duchess]

SassyLeo, I completely understand where you're coming from. Physical appearance does matter, especially when you know absolutely nothing about the person except for what's on the outside. When you see a person for the first time, that's all you really have to go on. Unless you're studying them, which of course would be totally stalker like, you don't see their compassion, spiritual depth, love for animals, etc....

However, if you've had the opportunity to bond on some level via the phone or internet, then maybe the physical won't matter so much. As for me, I'm attracted to masculine women. I stopped asking why a long time ago. I just know I owe it to myself to go with what works for me...:cheer:

Duchess

[Soft*Silver]

oh my pantalooms! NO!!!!! One: She is FEMME Two: Elf ears? NO! Three: they arent real...I need REAL ears...

omg...you made me laugh..I will be laughing in my sleep!


http://www.momlogic.com/Elf-Ears.jpg

[friskyfemme]

I m a sucker for blonde hair blue-eyed, masculine stone butches. He needs to be a really good kisser. I judge going further with hime based on his kiss. I love the old fashion traditional manners. I love to discuss everything- from the day, world affairs, and the unknown. I need to have conversation not just nods of agreement or frowns of diagreement. I love to engage on opposing views as long as it remains friendly. I am very Spiritual and practice my belief system in my daily life. Sharing and respecting are manditory with me. My guy has to be 100% into me. I want him to do little things without prodding as I do for him. He needs to be patient, kind, and love me.

Is that too much to ask for?

[AtLast]

Character .... yes, character....

Hummmm... I don't know if I have a specific type, other than femme.... I have felt attraction to many styles, body types, hair color, etc., really. Gets back to that carriage and selfhood phenomenon with the mental, emotional and spiritual aspects...

:toast: Let's just toast Femmes!!

[AtLast]

http://www.momlogic.com/Elf-Ears.jpg

Yanno... this makes sense to me! I happen to like feet a lot.... Ummm, toe cleavage, to be exact...

:frog: Got legs?

[Sachita]

Yanno... this makes sense to me! I happen to like feet a lot.... Ummm, toe cleavage, to be exact...

:frog: Got legs?

lol- I thought I was the only one that said toe cleavage. I have a serious foot fetish but it only really counts when someone is into it. Touching my feet sends me places... swoon

[Gemme]

there always has to be that spiritual connection..but it needs to be grounded in earthly things too. I cant be always living in the heavens. I am an earth girl as well. I need the balance between them. I like my partner to have a deep appreciation for himself...so that he doesnt need bolstered by me to feel good about himself. Thats not my job. I can be supportive...but I wont be the crutch.

I have alot of physical types I am attracted to. Best to define what I am not attracted to..and that is femininity.I do like masculinized energy in a partner. And while there was a time when I felt I would only be attracted to male IDd butches and transmen, I am really learning alot via the the threads here and it has opened my eyes in how I regard butches in general. So thank you to all the great posters over on those threads...

mentally I need someone who can have a good conversation with, but I dont need to feel like I am on the witness stand nor am I wanting to feel like I am a student of the "all knowing" or being silenced by overriding opinions. I want someone to listen and discuss...have sensitivity to my words, disagree when necessary and have a pleasant conversation even when we dont agree or see eye to eye. It can be done.

I also need humour in someone I date. I need to see them smile. I dont want someone who finds glee in pestering others, abusing their intelligence by making others feel less than and then reveling in it, and certainly no one who makes off color jokes..none of that will ever fly with me. I just want to read some good political comics together and enjoy a good laugh...or crack up over the noises a baby makes...

emotionally they need to be available and not shut down. Or divorced from their feelings. I am not chasing the stone cold Clint Eastwood cowboy anymore. I like-um with a warm heart and hands that reach out and heart that would hold mine next to it. I need a grown up love, one not so dependent on another that it cant function without a relationship. I am SO ok being single. I have been SO alone IN a relationship. I would rather be alone than lonely.

What makes my head turn to look twice at someone? Caring words spoken. Wisdom. Compassion. Intelligence. Self confidence. Pride without vanity. Open. As in, not closed off. Sensible. Adventurous. A smile with a wink.

the biggest turn on for me? Is someone who is Present to her/himself long before they think to be Present with me.

I relate very much to a lot of what you've said here and share your views.

I m a sucker for blonde hair blue-eyed, masculine stone butches. He needs to be a really good kisser. I judge going further with hime based on his kiss. I love the old fashion traditional manners. I love to discuss everything- from the day, world affairs, and the unknown. I need to have conversation not just nods of agreement or frowns of diagreement. I love to engage on opposing views as long as it remains friendly. I am very Spiritual and practice my belief system in my daily life. Sharing and respecting are manditory with me. My guy has to be 100% into me. I want him to do little things without prodding as I do for him. He needs to be patient, kind, and love me.

Is that too much to ask for?

It's not too much, I think. :)

I put a lot of emphasis on my partner's ability to please me with his kissing as well. To me, how a person kisses tells a LOT about how they make love/fuck/have sex/do the nasty/whatever you want to do.

I also relate to most of what you've said here. I prefer butches or transguys with darker hair though. *impish grin*

[Mister Bent]

Without a brilliant, engaging, provocative mind, there is nothing for me.

The rest would be irrelevant.

[moxie]

Without a brilliant, engaging, provocative mind, there is nothing for me.

The rest would be irrelevant.


I agree. If someone cannot stimulate me intellectually then it is pointless for me.

Looks are important and I have aspects I am attracted to like butch/FtM, smells good, wears great shoes...but it's "everything else" about the person tends to make them more attractive to me. It can also make someone less attractive. If you don't have similar values like kindness, politeness, respect, honesty and the all-important traits like a witty, somewhat dry sense of humour, knows how government works (odd I know), cares about what is going on in their neighborhood and all over the world, and treats others how they would expect to be treated then it won't work.

I have met some really gorgeous people on the outside that aren't so pleasant on the inside and it ruins everything.

[Soft*Silver]

I really thought more on this and I think that something that is very attractive to me is if someone really knows how to date. I dont mean fall in love and sweep me off my feet. If they tried that at this point in my life I would run in the opposite direction! But I mean, the build up, the carry through, the Presence of Self or Thought. I have given so much of that to others...I really want someone who can give it back to me, without coaxing or teaching. I am past needing to be a teacher. I want a learned Soul who can dance the slowest sweetest longest dance of the evening with me....that moment of warmth and musk, of tenderness and heat, of a soft brush of their face on mine, their hand right "there" in the curve of my back that responds and yet he has never ....

yes...someone who engages fully in the dance...with me...

that the kind of dating I am looking for....(and yes you can so do that long distance...)

[Rockinonahigh]

When I meet someone either in person or on the phone the way they cary on the conversation and tone of voice along with eye contact(if in person) is the first thing that I see.Dose she really seem intrested in me or is she talking around me..u would be surprised how many talk at me and not to me.Beleave me im definatly checking them out to see how genuine they are.There are players out in the world and some how I attract them when I dont want to..even when the game is just that, fun and games,for me I have long since tired of them.
I probly will fall out if I met a person who was really into life,wants to really engage in an adult relationship,stimulate my mind,body and soul.Really know how to date without the uhaul reveing up in the back parking lot.Someone mentioned earler about kissing...a definate A+ for me,being pasionate about life and still know how to play,laugh and have fun.As for baggage ..well we all have some we deal with so I figure if we are really into each other we will work them out some how.

[key]

I have recently begun concentrating more on my spiritual self and going back to my ole gurus. Marianne Williamson, Carolyn Myss, among others. So y'all may be getting a lot of their quotes in the near future. Thank You for indulging me.

Marianne Williamson says:

Think about the person you want to be with. Your dream lover, soul mate etc. Think of all their traits physical, emotional, spiritual, political, intellectual etc etc. Go to town and really get down to the details.

Now. Imagine what kind of person that dream lover would want to be with.

And that is the person you want to concentrate on! Get it?

:tongue:

So, its back to the gym and rebooting the spiritual life for me!

:toypony:

[Soft*Silver]

[QUOTE=puregrrl;70895.

I have met some really gorgeous people on the outside that aren't so pleasant on the inside and it ruins everything.[/QUOTE]

I have dated some incredibly handsome people. Some were just as beautiful inside as they were outside. Some werent. Some were just hurting and it darkened their insides. I also dated plain folks too who were so luminisce inwardly...they lit up when they smiled, which was often. Looks last, with me, a millisecond. I want to stand energy to energy and see if we can feel the connection...

[Soft*Silver]

[QUOTE=key;70926]
Think about the person you want to be with. Your dream lover, soul mate etc. Think of all their traits physical, emotional, spiritual, political, intellectual etc etc. Go to town and really get down to the details.

Now. Imagine what kind of person that dream lover would want to be with.

And that is the person you want to concentrate on! Get it?

so.....you need to "create" yourself to meet the needs of someone else so they will be attracted to you? Am I intepreting this wrong?

[Rockinonahigh]

I have dated some incredibly handsome people. Some were just as beautiful inside as they were outside. Some werent. Some were just hurting and it darkened their insides. I also dated plain folks too who were so luminisce inwardly...they lit up when they smiled, which was often. Looks last, with me, a millisecond. I want to stand energy to energy and see if we can feel the connection...

Girl u hit the nail right on the head...couldnt have said it better.

[Soft*Silver]

Girl u hit the nail right on the head...couldnt have said it better.


smiling warmly. Thank you, Rocky...

[bigbutchmistie]

First of all when I am looking at someone to date I look to see if I am going to be attracted physically initially...

Are they girly?

Do they love getting their nails and toes done?

Do they love to dress up with dresses as much as they love being in jeans and a t shirt?

Do they love wearing makeup and not wearing makeup at all some days?

Are they 5'3 or taller?

Are they hygenic?

Is her perfume intoxicating?

Is her skin soft to the touch?

Does her eye sparkle when she looks at me?

Does she smile genuiniely at me?

Does she look into my eyes when she speaks to me. She is talking to me and not at me

Then I wanna know what kind of person they are...

Are they kind?

Are they generous?

Are they loyal? Can I depend on them to be by my side in good times and in bad?

Are they independent?

Are they career oriented?

Are they down to earth?

Are they passionate about life?

Do they treat people with respect?

Are they truthful?

Are they consistent?

Are they gentle?

Are they understanding?

Are they sensitive?

Are they romantic?

Does she have a cat? Im highly allergic so its no cats for me or who I date.

Are they affectionate at home with me and in public...

Do they attend MCC services?

Can they be intimate without being sexual?

Do they believe like me that sex is between two people who love each other.

Do they have a nurturing side?

Are they understanding of the fact that I am trans. I have not transitioned as of yet.

Can I laugh with them about anything?

Can I open up my deepest darkest "secrets" and not feel judged?

Are they understanding about my lack of family?

Are they like me and dont want kids?

Are they like me and can tell by the first kiss if we connect or not?

Do they love to pampered by me doing the little things for them without the expectations that I should.

Can they handle that I am old fashioned when it comes to romance. I wanna pick you up, take you out, and drive you home walk you to your door kiss your hand or forehead dates before our first kiss..

Lastly for now.. Can I without a doubt trust them? Have they shown themselves trustworthy?

[violaine]

spirituality ; inquisitiveness ; acceptance of neurodiversity [for starters] ; animal stewardship ; gentleness + hardcore -

&

taller than i am ;)

[UofMfan]

To me it all comes down to whether they can sing Sesame Street tunes in the middle of the night : )

[key]

[QUOTE=key;70926]
Think about the person you want to be with. Your dream lover, soul mate etc. Think of all their traits physical, emotional, spiritual, political, intellectual etc etc. Go to town and really get down to the details.

Now. Imagine what kind of person that dream lover would want to be with.

And that is the person you want to concentrate on! Get it?

so.....you need to "create" yourself to meet the needs of someone else so they will be attracted to you? Am I intepreting this wrong?

I did not interpret it that way. For instance, my dream lover is very self assured (sassy, confident, capable). This woman would most likely want to be with someone equally capable and confident, out there moving and shaking it up in the world. So, I guess in a way it would be fulfilling her needs for me to get more out there, beefing up my self confidence. But really, that is who I want be anyway. Like attracts like right?


I interpreted it to be more of a round about way to motive people to "be all they can be" rather than seeking others to bring these qualities out in them.

[Soft*Silver]

I think I get it. I like the idea of working on yourself to actualize your potential. Its good to do that BEFORE you enter into a dating situation.

I have actually dated a few people based on their potentials and I can promise you, if they havent gotten there on their own, they surely dont have reason to once they got what they want. I refuse to date "potentials" anymore. I date who and what they are at the present time...

I agree that likes attracts. So do opposites, tho. In my own way of thinking, water rises to its own level.

ahh..the beauty of cliches....they are almost as good as :gimmehug:

[key]

I definitely prefer :gimmehug: to cliches.

If you are willing, can you write more about dating, just dating and enjoying that process.

I am so ambitious, just in life in general, but it spills into my romantic life. I have difficulty not putting a purpose (a label, a goal) to the process. Would like to learn more....if you would care to share.

:rainsing:

[Rockinonahigh]

smiling warmly. Thank you, Rocky...

The pleaure is all mine...

[Soft*Silver]

The pleaure is all mine...

my eyes crinkle at the sides as I smile, reading this....

[Soft*Silver]

I definitely prefer :gimmehug: to cliches.

If you are willing, can you write more about dating, just dating and enjoying that process.

I am so ambitious, just in life in general, but it spills into my romantic life. I have difficulty not putting a purpose (a label, a goal) to the process. Would like to learn more....if you would care to share.

:rainsing:


I love to date. I am good at dating. I dont jump into a relationship just because someone opened the car door for on the date and then called me the next day. Those are NOT cues signifying an instant relationship!

Just because I find out someone likes to dunk their toast in their coffee and watches CSI and SVU religiously like I do, (I dont, these are just examples) doesnt mean they are partner material...

what they do mean...is that they are likely to offer pretty good dates.

Dates do not mean their shoes get slid under my bed. Dates dont even mean coming inside my house. And depending on how we met, dates might not even mean knowing where I live...

what a date would mean, is a step closer..to smell my fragrance..perhaps to even embrace it so that it might cling to you after I leave...

Dating isnt about how fast we can sum it all up. Just the opposite..it means slowing down the heat so it doesnt burn on the edges...so the middle is cooked thoroughly...and the syrups of the fruit come out hot and steaming when it is time for pie...

[Rockinonahigh]

I read your post and am wondering,just for clairafacation(sp?),how cold I create a diffrent me to attract someone??

Lose more weight to be healther....i'm doing that already,to be shure loseing weight has its own scedual.

Be more finacialy stable...I already own near all I have free and clear.
I have very fue bills to pay just utilities and car inshurance with $ left over..do I need have more $$.Oh shure, I could go back to work cause retirement is boreing..besides I miss the daily grind.

Should I be more handsome,dye my grey hair,work out harder so I can bulk up more.

So if I change who I am on the outside, how will it make me diffrent cause if I did a total redo..I wouldnt be the person I really am and it took me a long time to get to where I am.

[Corkey]

First of all when I am looking at someone to date I look to see if I am going to be attracted physically initially...

Are they girly?

Do they love getting their nails and toes done?

Do they love to dress up with dresses as much as they love being in jeans and a t shirt?

Do they love wearing makeup and not wearing makeup at all some days?

Are they 5'3 or taller?

Are they hygenic?

Is her perfume intoxicating?

Is her skin soft to the touch?

Does her eye sparkle when she looks at me?

Does she smile genuiniely at me?

Does she look into my eyes when she speaks to me. She is talking to me and not at me

Then I wanna know what kind of person they are...

Are they kind?

Are they generous?

Are they loyal? Can I depend on them to be by my side in good times and in bad?

Are they independent?

Are they career oriented?

Are they down to earth?

Are they passionate about life?

Do they treat people with respect?

Are they truthful?

Are they consistent?

Are they gentle?

Are they understanding?

Are they sensitive?

Are they romantic?

Does she have a cat? Im highly allergic so its no cats for me or who I date.

Are they affectionate at home with me and in public...

Do they attend MCC services?

Can they be intimate without being sexual?

Do they believe like me that sex is between two people who love each other.

Do they have a nurturing side?

Are they understanding of the fact that I am trans. I have not transitioned as of yet.

Can I laugh with them about anything?

Can I open up my deepest darkest "secrets" and not feel judged?

Are they understanding about my lack of family?

Are they like me and dont want kids?

Are they like me and can tell by the first kiss if we connect or not?

Do they love to pampered by me doing the little things for them without the expectations that I should.

Can they handle that I am old fashioned when it comes to romance. I wanna pick you up, take you out, and drive you home walk you to your door kiss your hand or forehead dates before our first kiss..

Lastly for now.. Can I without a doubt trust them? Have they shown themselves trustworthy?

All these questions about a "they", what about "you".
In my world I have to be the one I want to be with for her to be with me.
just sayin... high expectations usually no one can live up to, often give unrealistic consequences.

[Sachita]

In an ideal world my partner would be my equal; intelligent, spiritual. mover-shaker, as you put it Key. In reading this all this somethings occurred to me.

I have lived a very full and interesting life. There are many aspects to my nature and although some have met the end of that journey, nonetheless they are still part of me. I am a strong alpha femme that also has a complete opposite. Over the years I have learned to find balance with everything I am.

One thing that has happened in my recent past relationships is that I completely closed parts of me because they couldnt deal with it or felt threatened by it. It use to really piss me off when my ex would make some shitty comment like "Stop trying to top me." every time I voiced an opinion. After a while you start putting up walls because you get so sick and fucking tired of being misunderstood.

I need to be able to put my cards on the table and not be judged but honored for all that I am. This is going to take a very confident, self assured and spiritual person. In their strength they also need to adore and worship me as the Goddess I feel I am. (ok no eyes rolling)

Only a strong and intelligent human can relinquish control and still be strong. They really don't give a shit what people think when it comes to how they love their SO.

damn I think I had a point - lol- I'm sick today, in bed, bored and my mind going a million miles. I think the bottom line for me is I want it all. Did I say that already? lol - even when I'm feeling kinky, no matter what it is, my partner doesnt go "wtf?" and start judging me. Instead they smile and ask "what can I do for you?" That same person wakes up, brings me coffee in bed and then go bites the world in the ass!

[bigbutchmistie]

All these questions about a "they", what about "you".
In my world I have to be the one I want to be with for her to be with me.
just sayin... high expectations usually no one can live up to, often give unrealistic consequences.

I agree I am all of those things. Minus the girly and the femme preferences of course. I dont ask for somethiing in someone that I am not :) Hence they arent unrealistic

[Rockinonahigh]

my eyes crinkle at the sides as I smile, reading this....

Mine too :happyjump:..

[Rockinonahigh]

I love to date. I am good at dating. I dont jump into a relationship just because someone opened the car door for on the date and then called me the next day. Those are NOT cues signifying an instant relationship!

Just because I find out someone likes to dunk their toast in their coffee and watches CSI and SVU religiously like I do, (I dont, these are just examples) doesnt mean they are partner material...

what they do mean...is that they are likely to offer pretty good dates.

Dates do not mean their shoes get slid under my bed. Dates dont even mean coming inside my house. And depending on how we met, dates might not even mean knowing where I live...

what a date would mean, is a step closer..to smell my fragrance..perhaps to even embrace it so that it might cling to you after I leave...

Dating isnt about how fast we can sum it all up. Just the opposite..it means slowing down the heat so it doesnt burn on the edges...so the middle is cooked thoroughly...and the syrups of the fruit come out hot and steaming when it is time for pie...

Amen to this statement...so many are in such a rush im not shure is they know how to just take it step at the time.I told a date once I wanted to take it one date at the time ,injoy the moment,smell the flowers ect...She thought I was plane nuts.

[adorable]

I have recently begun concentrating more on my spiritual self and going back to my ole gurus. Marianne Williamson, Carolyn Myss, among others. So y'all may be getting a lot of their quotes in the near future. Thank You for indulging me.

Marianne Williamson says:

Think about the person you want to be with. Your dream lover, soul mate etc. Think of all their traits physical, emotional, spiritual, political, intellectual etc etc. Go to town and really get down to the details.

Now. Imagine what kind of person that dream lover would want to be with.

And that is the person you want to concentrate on! Get it?

:tongue:

So, its back to the gym and rebooting the spiritual life for me!

:toypony:

The only problem with this idea for me is that it's subject to change without notice. lol. At different times in my life that picture of what is ideal has changed dramatically. I should be the best me I can be everyday - without a goal or plan of attracting someone else. Focusing on whatever idea I have in my head of what I think I want (and I always think I know - I am always wrong too) just offers a distraction from reality.

I read recently that love is seeing an imperfect person perfectly. I like that one.

[key]

Amen to this statement...so many are in such a rush im not shure is they know how to just take it step at the time.I told a date once I wanted to take it one date at the time ,injoy the moment,smell the flowers ect...She thought I was plane nuts.

Wow, that is really hard for me. It just is. Not that I am trying to jump into bed with the next woman I meet. But if I am really into someone I get really excited and want to explore, more, asap. (no not sexually, mostly I mean emotionally actually). I know this can (and often does) crush any tender little relationship sprouts that might be germinating without me even noticing them.


I know I need help in this department. I don't want to crush relationship sprouts....

I guess that is why I am attracted to such sassy, self-satisfied women. It really is something I aspire to. And the funny thing is, when I am alone (as I have been for a long time now) I am very self satisfied, loving my own life, doing my own thing. But if I meet someone I crush on I can just toss all that out the window.

:hanging:

[Sachita]

Wow, that is really hard for me. It just is. Not that I am trying to jump into bed with the next woman I meet. But if I am really into someone I get really excited and want to explore, more, asap. (no not sexually, mostly I mean emotionally actually). I know this can (and often does) crush any tender little relationship sprouts that might be germinating without me even noticing them.


I know I need help in this department. I don't want to crush relationship sprouts....

I guess that is why I am attracted to such sassy, self-satisfied women. It really is something I aspire to. And the funny thing is, when I am alone (as I have been for a long time now) I am very self satisfied, loving my own life, doing my own thing. But if I meet someone I crush on I can just toss all that out the window.

:hanging:

just think "moderation"

[cinderella]

Excellent list, BBM - it mirrors mine...

First of all when I am looking at someone to date I look to see if I am going to be attracted physically initially...

Are they girly?

Do they love getting their nails and toes done?

Do they love to dress up with dresses as much as they love being in jeans and a t shirt?

Do they love wearing makeup and not wearing makeup at all some days?

Are they 5'3 or taller?

Are they hygenic?

Is her perfume intoxicating?

Is her skin soft to the touch?

Does her eye sparkle when she looks at me?

Does she smile genuiniely at me?

Does she look into my eyes when she speaks to me. She is talking to me and not at me

Then I wanna know what kind of person they are...

Are they kind?

Are they generous?

Are they loyal? Can I depend on them to be by my side in good times and in bad?

Are they independent?

Are they career oriented?

Are they down to earth?

Are they passionate about life?

Do they treat people with respect?

Are they truthful?

Are they consistent?

Are they gentle?

Are they understanding?

Are they sensitive?

Are they romantic?

Does she have a cat? Im highly allergic so its no cats for me or who I date.

Are they affectionate at home with me and in public...

Do they attend MCC services?

Can they be intimate without being sexual?

Do they believe like me that sex is between two people who love each other.

Do they have a nurturing side?

Are they understanding of the fact that I am trans. I have not transitioned as of yet.

Can I laugh with them about anything?

Can I open up my deepest darkest "secrets" and not feel judged?

Are they understanding about my lack of family?

Are they like me and dont want kids?

Are they like me and can tell by the first kiss if we connect or not?

Do they love to pampered by me doing the little things for them without the expectations that I should.

Can they handle that I am old fashioned when it comes to romance. I wanna pick you up, take you out, and drive you home walk you to your door kiss your hand or forehead dates before our first kiss..

Lastly for now.. Can I without a doubt trust them? Have they shown themselves trustworthy?

[cinderella]

Physically, I am attracted to masculine energy, and an 'in-charge' attitude without being bossy or demanding. I love daddy types - and tho I don't mind being called 'babygirl - I am not a fragile 'babygirl'. I don't want to make decisions for you, but don't want you making them for me either. I wear 'big girl' panties, and carry them very well, thank you...I am an independent, strong woman. That said:

What works me?

First, and foremost, intelligence, wit, and a wicked humor. Keep me laughing, and you might just steal my heart.

A healthy body, mind, and spirit. Hygene, and self-love is important - you need to care for, and about yourself before you can care for anyone.

Integrity, honesty, strenghth of character, fidelity, and trustworthiness. Someone I can lean on for strength, and who isn't afraid to lean on me as well.

Creativity, imagination, whimsy, child-like curiosity and wonder of all things in nature and life, a reader, industrious, ambitious, romantic, sensitive but strong. A sense of fun, and compassion for the less fortunate without being a pushover or doormat.

And the list goes on...but these are the main qualities I look for.

Oh, and a p.s., if you love classic movies and can talk about them intelligently - that's a major PLUS!!! lol Knowing Spanish wouldn't hurt either! ;)

[bigbutchmistie]

Excellent list, BBM - it mirrors mine...

Thank You Ms. Cinderella :)

[Write14u]

What I see when I'm in public -- and am attracted to -- isn't different than any other time but is perhaps ordered differently. We can all wax poetic about intelligence and caring, etc., but I think if you see someone across a room, without knowing them, it's hard to get beyond looks and energy. Until you engage with someone, you can't move on to the other characteristics.

I don't think I have a type, per se. For me, there's just a gut reaction to someone that's my particular brand of attractive. I think a lot of that is how people carry themselves. While I can appreciate masculine beauty, I'm not attracted to it. It's not what makes me go boom. *grin* All ranges of femme do it for me.

I've been all across the board in the types of people I've dated. In the long run, deeper characteristics will almost always prevail. I just don't think people look across a room and think, "Wow he/she seems so smart and witty." I think it's more like, "Damn, what a hottie/cutie."

On the flip side, I think all these other characteristics such as humor and wit and intelligence come into play much quicker and looks shuffle to the back of the line.

Just my 2 cents.
*smile*

[Soft*Silver]

when I am in a room full of people I watch...and it is the one who is centered, grounded and interesting who I will gravitate to.

It is not the one with the crowd around him, as he spouts off his hotty totty lifestyle, attracting attention to himself.

Nor is it the miserable one who shows anger and depression as his clothes.

He who is looking around, the same as I, will meet my eyes....and with a smile...I might invite him over...

[SassyLeo]

I have recently begun concentrating more on my spiritual self and going back to my ole gurus. Marianne Williamson, Carolyn Myss, among others. So y'all may be getting a lot of their quotes in the near future. Thank You for indulging me.

Marianne Williamson says:

Think about the person you want to be with. Your dream lover, soul mate etc. Think of all their traits physical, emotional, spiritual, political, intellectual etc etc. Go to town and really get down to the details.

Now. Imagine what kind of person that dream lover would want to be with.

And that is the person you want to concentrate on! Get it?

:tongue:

So, its back to the gym and rebooting the spiritual life for me!

:toypony:


so.....you need to "create" yourself to meet the needs of someone else so they will be attracted to you? Am I intepreting this wrong?

I am of the belief that we attract the kind of energy we are expressing.

At points in my life, I have been in dark/angry/sad or general crappy places and I attracted those kinds of people to me...of course at the time, I may have said "why do I attract all the crazies?" but really it was where I was in my mental/emotional space.

I have spent many years on a journey to figure myself out, my "stuff", understand it, process it...basically understand myself better and be able to own my shit. I'd like to be the best human I can and a good partner to another human. And it's a continuous journey...

Some years ago, my father suggested I make a list - describe the kind of person I would like have as a mate. I made a point to write the things I wanted, rather than those I didn't. It sounds very simple, but it was pretty profound when I finally did it. It actually helped me weed through all those who did not work for me...and I kept getting closer.

[Soft*Silver]

Sassy, just like your daddysuggested to you, I suggested to my daughter, that she make up a list of what she wanted in someone. She took it to heart and came up with a very serious checklist. She had on it, he had to open car doors and let her be seated at a restaurant before he sat down himself. She told me she wanted her men to treat her as well as she has seen my butches I dated, treat me.

Hats off to the ones she admired....and to all the good butches out there that are like that, too.

Sassy Leo, I like how you say that we attract the energy we are expressing. I do believe that I could hold that against any relationship I have had and it be true....

[Jet]

Dark hair

Blue eyes preferably

Smile is everything

No smoking

[Kobi]

I have been reading and rereading this thread for a while and its made me think a lot.

Attraction is such a subjective thing and I find it difficult to put into words something that, to me, is more instinctual then intellectual.

It seems I can make a list of what I like and dislike but we all use words differently i.e. "sassy" to me may not mean "sassy" to another.

I find with each relationship, be it a lover or a friend, we fine tune the things we like and dislike in general, the things we want and dont want in our lives, the qualities that are important and the ones we give leeway on.

It is easier to discern those things that are deal breakers more so then those things that work. And I say this because even if someone can meet a list of qualities or things I look for in a person, it doesnt means there is the type of chemistry that will lead to a relationship or friendship. In the same vein, I am pretty sure of the types of things that are immediate no-no's to either.

I do find that as I age, I am more self contained, self sufficient, and less prone to things and people who require too much of my time, energy, or attention. And I find, I like people who are similar.

[StrongButch]

I have to be attracted on all levels.

[bcelly1894]

She had on it, he had to open car doors and let her be seated at a restaurant before he sat down himself. She told me she wanted her men to treat her as well as she has seen my butches I dated, treat me.

Hats off to the ones she admired....and to all the good butches out there that are like that, too.

Comments like these makes me love being a butch.:cowboy:

[bcelly1894]

I just love the long, dark, preferably curly or wavy hair of a femme.

Seeing a femme's long, dark hair, Reminds me of a beautiful waterfall and waves in the ocean, and beautiful fluffy waves of clouds in the sky.

Just watching a femme brush her long hair mesmerizes me for a moment.
I actually enjoy when a femme fusses over her long hair, saying at times that it has a mind all its own.

I enjoy watching the way that the weather affects a femme's long hair.
How the femme's long hair flows and moves in the wind.
The rawness of a femme's long hair when I get the pleasure
of feeling her hair between my fingers,
when her hair is wet from a shower, or the rain.
How extra soft the femme's long hair feels within my finger's touch,
As the waves or curls makes different patterns,
glistening and sticking together because of the sweat from her skin.
This is usually the time when she is fussing that her hair is a mess.
But not to me.
I love all of the complexities as well as the simplicities of a femme's long hair.

I crave the sweaty wet feel of a femme's long hair on my face and on my body while we make love.
And how her hair makes different patterns that I can feel and see when I brush the sweaty hair from her face.
And I can even smell the scent of me in the femme's long beautiful hair,
from her making love to me.
I Enjoy the femme's natural body smell thru the locks of her long hair,
All mingled with the scents of her perfume or the shampoo,
or the hair beautifiers that she has put in her hair that day.

I love the fascinating way the femme's hair seems to change,
in thickness, body and shine,
When she gets her period or when she is pregnant.
I feel like a baby being cradled when I have my face in the femme's beautiful long hair-
Whenever I hold her in my arms.
My face surrounded by the comfort, softness and aroma,
of the femme's beautiful long hair.

But nothing beats the security that the femme feels,
while I'm holding her in my arms,
while we snuggle on the coach or in the bed.
Sometimes, I like to think that a big part of that femme's heartfelt love,
comes thru some kind of energy in her hair,
which is resting on my chest, my shoulder or under my chin.

[thedivahrrrself]

For me, the #1 thing is mental attraction. Someone who can really stimulate my mind will peak my curiosity regardless of how they look.

Physically, I tend to like Butch, and that's usually what I attract. I think regardless of how your partner sees herself, you see her masculine qualities as a turn on. I think those qualities would be present regardless of how she looks. Not all butches "look Butch", but there are certain traits that trigger us to respond to those we consider masculine. They are not always physical traits.

[Nomad]

yesterday someone said to me, "oh [Nomad]! you're not a stone femme. why would you call yourself that? it's totally homosexist"

homosexist?

'm glad that i'm not in a dating situation with that person because a lot of things attract me but one of the things that would kill every level of attraction for me is someone telling me how i feel, what i think, or how i ID. it wouldnt matter who you were, i'd no longer be attracted in any way. it takes a lot for me to relax and be myself these days. hanging out with someone who denies my identity would make it impossible.

[Fatale]

Regardless of how scathingly brilliant, handsome and witty you might be, if you light up a cigarette I am immediately turned off. Just can't do it.

[Ginger]

yesterday someone said to me, "oh [Nomad]! you're not a stone femme. why would you call yourself that? it's totally homosexist"

homosexist?

'm glad that i'm not in a dating situation with that person because a lot of things attract me but one of the things that would kill every level of attraction for me is someone telling me how i feel, what i think, or how i ID. it wouldnt matter who you were, i'd no longer be attracted in any way. it takes a lot for me to relax and be myself these days. hanging out with someone who denies my identity would make it impossible.


I bolded the part that jumped out at me. OMG Nomad, this is my number one trigger. I so relate!

[Electrocell]

A combination of all 3 and then some.

[NJFemmie]

Thanks for sharing! I definitely agree...in terms of your heart pulling you in a certain direction. But if you meet someone for the first time and on the initial appearance, the person is not your traditional "type" (if you have one), do you think you might still have some kind of initial attraction? If it is really about the person inside, how would you know from a 15 min conversation? I guess maybe I have not experienced that so I don't know? Curiosity :)


It took me THIS long to answer this question .... (not really, I actually just saw it) :seeingstars:

In my case, I don't have a "traditional" type. Maybe that in itself makes a difference. Would I have an initial attraction? Probably. But that's because again, I don't always look at just the "packaging." The way the person presents themselves, their personality, their sense of humor, commonalities - all play in that factor. I'm all about getting to know the person (with the hopes that the person I am trying to know tells the truth, but that's another thread issue altogether) - and that takes more than 15 minutes.

In the past, anything I involved myself in based on purely physical attraction was basically a disaster in the making.

[thedivahrrrself]

Regardless of how scathingly brilliant, handsome and witty you might be, if you light up a cigarette I am immediately turned off. Just can't do it.

<---- with Fatale here.

I know some couples who make the one non-, one smoker thing work, but I have not had any success with that.

[bcelly1894]

I hope that no one is offended by my last comments of being attracted to a femmes long hair.

I should have added all of this in my last post.

A femme can have beautiful long hair and be an evil person inside.

I am very attracted to a femme more physically if she keeps long hair.
But there are other physical features that turn me on about femmes too.

Mentally, I am attracted to femmes with an Inner Humanitarian type spirit,
When she actually helps others especially children in need.
Im attracted to femmes who have a love of God.
Im attracted to femmes who try their best to live a "green" sustainable life,
I dont mean a complete vegatable diet, because I eat meat.
I mean trying her best to live organic, from our foods, to the materials that we use in our home,
and the types of clothing that our family wears.

Emotionally, I am attracted to femmes who can understand me
and handle me and my inner most self within our romantic relationship.

Im attracted to a femme that can blend in harmony with me, Yet we dont cancel each other out,
Or blend with each other so much, That our individuality is erased or blurred.
Instead we compliment each other harmoniously, And can grow past any problems together.

[Beloved]

I like nerds. Intelligence is sexy.

[yotlyolqualli]

Physical appearance for me has never been all that important. There are certain traits that I am attracted to, however. Female IDd butch women..... someone who loves being a woman as much as I love them being a woman lol. Polite way of saying that I enjoy the sexual aspect of being with a woman, and so wouldnt care to be with someone who does not want touched.

But... I can't know that just from an initial "glance". That WOULD be a deal breaker for me, however.

Physical attributes that catch my eye...
I love long hair on a woman. I just do. No matter how they wear it. I generally prefer that she be taller than me (not difficult because I am only 5'2" in the mornings before gravity takes over) She definitely has to have a male energy and presence... counter balanced with a feminine softness. She has to be dominant.. not necessarily in a BDSM sort of way, but definitely in a way that she can be the "head" of the relationship. That energy, when it's there, is almost always immediately recognizable. She should be physically strong. I don't necessarily want her to be "cut" lol, but able to wrestle with me is a given LOL I am attracted to strength. Strength of will, of character, of body and of mind. Those things create an aura that is also easily recognizable. It will capture my attention and make my heart jump, each and every time.

I am femme. Not ultra femme, or high maintenance... but femme. Whether it's just a natural energy, or my upbringing brought it about.. I am definitely the "girl or wife" and while I am positive about my "label" I don't care if the woman I am with labels herself or not... as long as she has the(non physical) attributes that can capture and hold my attention.

The physical attributes are only initial attractions. If she opens her mouth and shows herself to be...vain, stupid, arrogant... or... like others have said... tries to tell me how I feel, what I think or how I SHOULD feel or what I SHOULD think... she could look like Xena (sighing) and I would lose interest in a snap!

The physical attributes are not essential for me, they are merely preferences, but they would definitely catch my eye.

The next thing she would have to do, however, is attract my mind, because for me.... appearance is only skin deep.. there also has to be substance.

[Angeltoes]

Physical appearance for me has never been all that important. There are certain traits that I am attracted to, however. Female IDd butch women..... someone who loves being a woman as much as I love them being a woman lol. Polite way of saying that I enjoy the sexual aspect of being with a woman, and so wouldnt care to be with someone who does not want touched.

But... I can't know that just from an initial "glance". That WOULD be a deal breaker for me, however.

Physical attributes that catch my eye...
I love long hair on a woman. I just do. No matter how they wear it. I generally prefer that she be taller than me (not difficult because I am only 5'2" in the mornings before gravity takes over) She definitely has to have a male energy and presence... counter balanced with a feminine softness. She has to be dominant.. not necessarily in a BDSM sort of way, but definitely in a way that she can be the "head" of the relationship. That energy, when it's there, is almost always immediately recognizable. She should be physically strong. I don't necessarily want her to be "cut" lol, but able to wrestle with me is a given LOL I am attracted to strength. Strength of will, of character, of body and of mind. Those things create an aura that is also easily recognizable. It will capture my attention and make my heart jump, each and every time.

I am femme. Not ultra femme, or high maintenance... but femme. Whether it's just a natural energy, or my upbringing brought it about.. I am definitely the "girl or wife" and while I am positive about my "label" I don't care if the woman I am with labels herself or not... as long as she has the(non physical) attributes that can capture and hold my attention.

The physical attributes are only initial attractions. If she opens her mouth and shows herself to be...vain, stupid, arrogant... or... like others have said... tries to tell me how I feel, what I think or how I SHOULD feel or what I SHOULD think... she could look like Xena (sighing) and I would lose interest in a snap!

The physical attributes are not essential for me, they are merely preferences, but they would definitely catch my eye.

The next thing she would have to do, however, is attract my mind, because for me.... appearance is only skin deep.. there also has to be substance.

You captured it almost exactly how I feel and what I want except for hair length. I prefer short hair but either way isn't a deal breaker. I do like the sense that my partner could lead in the relationship but not in a controlling sort of way.

[Nomad]

i'm learning more and more about myself this year than i have in possibly the last decade. being on the road alone with a huge and largely uninterrupted amount of time to process has made me realize that i crave someone who can handle me. someone strong, patient, dominant, loving and demanding; someone insightful enough to know me, "see" me, understand me and keep me safe.

i'm not a cake walk. not even close. i'm hard to get close to and i have some wicked effective defenses built up around me (a fact which is cleverly disguised by my brilliant sense of humor and my obvious charm). in short, i have baggage. and all the evidence points to the fact that it's permanent baggage at that. but i wouldnt refuse guidance to an interested party if they were hardy enough to stand their ground while we got to know one another. maybe i need to post a sign that says "The feint of heart need not apply"? translation: i'm too old to suffer wimps. handle me or move on.

everyone has baggage. some of us have managed to limit that baggage to the carry on variety and some of us have full monogrammed sets. we just need to go through it once in a while in order to understand what it represents. something that occurs to me as i type is that we also need to change our approach to that baggage. im beginning to think we need to treat it with respect rather than the more typical contempt or wariness response. no one volunteers for emotional turbulance (without a reason anyway - which is baggage in and of itself). maybe we need to start cutting ourselves and other people some slack or looking at the emotional baggage issue with a little more humility. after all, sometimes when you can examine the hard things with someone who truly cares for you it becomes possible to let some of it go.

behind my defenses is a girl who sincerely wants to be open and vulnerable and exposed to the gaze of someone who loves and respects what they find there and who will help safeguard it, but there's some climbing to be done to get that close. after years of taking flak and even beating myself up for erecting such intricate defenses i've come to realize that i'm more normal than i understood. more importantly, the people who dont want to make the climb or cant afford the effort wouldnt be a good fit for me anyway, nor i for them.

my baggage has its foundation in childhood. like most people with those kinds of emotional mementos i've created an adult version that dictates a certain pattern to the way i move through the world. today's version of me (which is different than yesterday and will be different tomorrow) knows that i can sometimes choose how much or how little influence that baggage has on what i do, say and think but i'm never going to be without it. the people that i have been sincerely attracted to throughout my life were those who took the time to understand how i became who i am. i did the same with regard to them. that kind of intimate knowlege is what makes it possible for us to "handle" one another. i would run -not walk- from someone who said they wouldnt consider a relationship with someone who has baggage. not only do i think that sort of talk/mindset is incredibly othering, it would also make me think that their self image had taken on a holy tone. personally, i'm not into perfection, giving or receiving.

[Nomad]

:bump:


heard today: i always date people who are uglier than i am so that i can feel good about myself. and people think i'm less shallow if i date an ugly person because i can obviously get someone cute but i'm with an ugly person so i must have looked deeper than the physical right? and ugly people are always so grateful that you give them a shot. (insert laughter) it's a win win situation. they get to be with me and i get to look good to myself and to everyone else!


:|


as someone who fits into the non-pretty category, i found this stunning at best. but it brings up some relevant discussion points.

we're attracted to what we're attracted to. no sense pretending we're not. but if beauty is in the eye of the beholder AND what's inside counts more than what's outside - or at least that's what they tell the ugly kids while we're growing up - then why does being physically attractive appear to be more important than anything else? media fed cultural standards? are we just a truly superficial population? is there some kind of instinctual screening process that we have no control over?

what is it that makes people hope they'll meet and fall in love with someone good looking?

would you turn away an average looking or unattractive potential partner with whom you had a good connection if you also had a good connection with someone better looking?

do you settle for or accept less from a good looking person than you do from someone who was plain or considered ugly by your familiar cultural standards? (rumor has it that we ALL do this)

if the people who knew you best in the world (so they love you and have your very best interests at heart) set you up on a blind date with someone you had a lot in common with and who sounded perfect in every way and then you found out, before the date, that they were physically unattractive (by your standards) would you cancel the date? why or why not?

now no one is going to be schmuck enough to rush right up to say 'yes! me! i'm THAT shallow!' we all know this. but we also know that physical attraction is an extremely powerful motivator. ther's no need to deteriorate into 'she had great tits' or 'if hy has a nice ass' or 'i love his washboard abs' because it's dull and we're much cleverer than that. but i'd like to hear people's thoughts, whether they choose to answer any of the questions or not, on what it is that makes physical attraction so motivating.

[Tony]

Yea, I may be that shallow. However, I like this sort of forum because it pulls me up by my bootstraps. Forces me to "get to know" someone as it were thru their written word. And I like that. It's making me a better person. Are looks still important to me? Well, yes they are. Just as I assume they are to most people reading these posts. Difference is, unlike a bar situation, my curiosity is peaked, my intelligence tweaked and my humor ignited. I have already gotten some kind of attachment.
Hopefully I've made some sense.
My .02 that is.

[Scuba]

Great thread. I'll just say that what some may find undesirable I may find completely captivating. So the question of the hour for me is what defines ugly or not pretty or not handsome? How many times have you been sitting there with your best friend, people watching, and you go "OOOOOOO NICE" and you get that "You're kidding right?"

Lots of factors influence attraction for me, including the physical look. But I'd like to think that there is no ugly only different definitions of "attractive".

The media really does on a number on us when it comes defining beauty and it's just downright disturbing to see what it can do to one's psyche.

Just my two cents...

Scoobs

[Nomad]

Yea, I may be that shallow. However, I like this sort of forum because it pulls me up by my bootstraps. Forces me to "get to know" someone as it were thru their written word. And I like that. It's making me a better person. Are looks still important to me? Well, yes they are. Just as I assume they are to most people reading these posts. Difference is, unlike a bar situation, my curiosity is peaked, my intelligence tweaked and my humor ignited. I have already gotten some kind of attachment.
Hopefully I've made some sense.
My .02 that is.

thank you for being so candid Tony. i like the idea of the thinking we do here cracking my head open for a little enlightenment too. i really hate the idea that i might wallow in my own little ideas and perspective forever. that's why i keep coming back.

i assume that physical appearance is important to most people too. just because it's a normal behavior to be drawn to what appeals to your visual filter. but, like you said, there's something about a pique to the curiosity. conversations that happen here strike me as little hooks for the brain cells that says 'find out more!' i really end up being glad i come back every day. and suddenly, while i'm often curious about what someone looks like i also find that i dont care what they look like, if that makes any sense. i just want a face with a name if that's possible.

i have a "type" of person i'm attracted to and that's just how my brain is wired. having said that, physical appearance matters to me more from a hygiene stance and a personal pride stance than anything else. where the option exists, do you bathe regularly and clean your clothes? do you take care of yourself in the best ways you can? do you consider your health important? (you dont have to be perfect, you just have to be willing to take care of yourself to the best of your ability and given your resources) that's what matters to me.

[*Anya*]

I have been attracted physically and sexually but that lasts about an hour and then what? If I can't talk to you, I will never fall in love with you.

Brains, brains, brains and more brains.

Intellect and ability to stimulate my mind comes first and my body will follow...

[Rockinonahigh]

Once I was told by someone they couldnt see a short butch being sexy,she was 6 ft in bare feet next to my 5' 4" in shoes.All I can say if thats how some folks feel,to bad they missed the boat.

[Scuba]

Once I was told by someone they couldnt see a short butch being sexy,she was 6 ft in bare feet next to my 5' 4" in shoes.All I can say if thats how some folks feel,to bad they missed the boat.

Word :thumbsup:

[Nomad]

Great thread. I'll just say that what some may find undesirable I may find completely captivating. So the question of the hour for me is what defines ugly or not pretty or not handsome? How many times have you been sitting there with your best friend, people watching, and you go "OOOOOOO NICE" and you get that "You're kidding right?"

Lots of factors influence attraction for me, including the physical look. But I'd like to think that there is no ugly only different definitions of "attractive".

The media really does on a number on us when it comes defining beauty and it's just downright disturbing to see what it can do to one's psyche.

Just my two cents...

Scoobs

great two cents!

agreed! the media brainwashes us into thinking this person is sexy or that person is not and so we consume and avoid those things we think will put us half an inch closer to what is favored at the moment. kings and queens used to do similar things by wearing certain fashions or adopting certain habits. we're such imitators that when some queen or other happened to admire pregnancy women's fashions changed in order that their skirts could be gathered up and looped over a belt to create the illusion of weight near the belly. (cant remember who - will run off and look when i'm done posting)


i like your idea that we shouldnt indugle "ugly" so much and, instead, think of it as "different definitions of attractive". normally, as a homely chick, i'd roll my eyes a little at the idea of adding another compassionate saying to the list of things we tell homely kids when they hit puberty ("you're beautiful to me", "you're just going through a phase", "you have a great personality") BUT i actually agree with you on this one because YES it has happened that i'll say, "look at that cute sweater" and my friends will say "huh? what? where? oh no you dont!" (jerks) so i dont think you're missing the mark at all!

[Rockinonahigh]

Word :thumbsup:

Beleave me she wished she hadnt said that,I was a wolf on the prowl that night and had all kinds of sweet ladies on my arm as well as the dance floor...if ya got it rock it..no pun intended.

[Nomad]

Once I was told by someone they couldnt see a short butch being sexy,she was 6 ft in bare feet next to my 5' 4" in shoes.All I can say if thats how some folks feel,to bad they missed the boat.

:cracked: that is so assinine. the person who rocks my world as the best lover of all time is several inches shorter than i am. i'm also hella tits and ass and tend to outweigh the people i date if they happen to be shorter than i am. i constantly smiled at the people i could see comparing us physically because they always ended up looking at my lover with a "damn you must be some hot shit to be able to handle her" look on their faces. it made me oddly proud. (and they were right....hot shit indeed)

[Nomad]

I have been attracted physically and sexually but that lasts about an hour and then what? If I can't talk to you, I will never fall in love with you.

Brains, brains, brains and more brains.

Intellect and ability to stimulate my mind comes first and my body will follow...

see, i couldnt agree more with you about the ability to stimulate my intellect being the first thing i need for actual, rooted attraction. i've never, and i do mean NEVER, had a long lasting crush on someone who was merely attractive. in fact, i havent had a short term crush on someone who was merely attractive since puberty. it just doesnt phase me that much when someone is externally beautiful. so i wonder, am i less motivated by the beautiful people because i am not one of them?

by no means do i think that people who are physically attractive are also shallow and will only choose to be with people who are also physically attractive. (and again, that's a relative thing anyway.) BUT, is it possible that when you come up in life knowing that you're not what your culture dictates is attractive, do you automatically have a tendency to see past that sort of thing. of course, the supposedly "unattractive" person can be just as shallow as anyone else but it begs the question, do i look past "beauty" automatically because it was ingrained in me not to give any consideration to the fact that i was not beautiful myself?

[Electrocell]

One of the most beautiful women I have ever been with had had 3rd degree burn marks over 75% of her body and no she is not on this site. Her personality, good heart, and her intelligence , the way she treated me , my animals and my family is what made her beautiful. Yes the only ex I really care to be in contact with.

[Nomad]

bumping the question:

are we more likely to look past the physical if we believe that we, ourselves, are not physically attractive?

follow up thought:

i'm what my grandfather called "a fine, big girl". he meant it as a compliment and i took it as one. as a teen, any time someone said "there's a skinny girl inside of you, just waiting to come out" my response was always something like, "i know. i just ate her." i never cared that i was luscious until someone else suggested that i was a less than entity because of it.

the media interpretation of "beauty" aside, what defines your opinion of your own physical attractiveness?

did you compare yourself to others while you were growing up and, if so, whom? and why?

why are we more fascinated by and disparaging of the weight of some brilliant actress, like Gabourey Sidibe, than we are with say Jorge Garcia who gets more recognition on the street? (no offense Jorge but i didnt see a single episode of Lost)

:deepthoughts:

[Gráinne]

bumping the question:

are we more likely to look past the physical if we believe that we, ourselves, are not physically attractive?

follow up thought:

i'm what my grandfather called "a fine, big girl". he meant it as a compliment and i took it as one. as a teen, any time someone said "there's a skinny girl inside of you, just waiting to come out" my response was always something like, "i know. i just ate her." i never cared that i was luscious until someone else suggested that i was a less than entity because of it.

the media interpretation of "beauty" aside, what defines your opinion of your own physical attractiveness?

did you compare yourself to others while you were growing up and, if so, whom? and why?

why are we more fascinated by and disparaging of the weight of some brilliant actress, like Gabourey Sidibe, than we are with say Jorge Garcia who gets more recognition on the street? (no offense Jorge but i didnt see a single episode of Lost)

:deepthoughts:

I'll bite, but probably poorly :)

I never thought I was beautiful growing up. When it came time to date (infrequently), it's not so much that I looked past physical beauty as I ruled out anyone attractive as being way out of my league.

Now, today, I know the problem wasn't my looks, it was that I had so little self-esteem that not only did I rule out very attractive people, but I attracted people who were ugly on the inside. Either they didn't k now how to love themselves and had just as poor self-esteem as I did, or they were cruel and shut down inside. Either way, they couldn't love me. I didn't love me, so I attracted what I thought I deserved. I believe now that who we hang with reflect who we think we are.

Today I'm much heavier than I was then, but I actually find myself far more attractive now than back then. While I do enjoy movement for the purely vain reason of my appearance when I've done it for awhile, and I do naturally take care of my clothes and hair (nails, we're getting there), what seems to define my own physical attractiveness to myself is if I'm happy with my life and engaging in growing and changing, not just existing. I know that sounds really Pollyannish, and maybe I'm not expressing myself well. I can have the same hair, the same body and wear the same clothes, but on days when I'm mentally "on", I feel like Sex Queen of the Universe. That's not to say that taking care of the outside doesn't feel splendid; it's that from the inside, it's...sexier? Lord, I sound vain :).

When I was a preteen, getting ready for puberty, I remember sneaking into my friend's garage with her and looking through her dad's Playboys. That's what I wanted to look like! Flat, taught stomachs and a good perky set above. I think this was way before airbrushing, and so those women may have actually been very realistic. My dad had a book of classic WWII pinups, and I loved to practice posing like Betty Grable in her bathing suit, or Rita Hayworth on her bed. I loved sensuality. Why? Again, I had little confidence in myself and hoped to heck I would grow taller so I could at least reach this standard I'd set in my head.

I have found in celebrity magazines that are aimed at women, that we're far more critical of other women than of men. We have "who wore it better?" and "best and worst beach bodies", all mainly women. We as a culture seem to judge women by what they wear and how they look, and men by their accomplishments. You hear of some actor's latest project and their work, but it's always about Jessica Simpson's weight.

I know that self-love and acceptance is lifelong for me, but I've come a long way from that. Part of it was when I was a life model in college, and far from thin, yet I felt like a Botticelli model :). And that was just me, not pushing up anything or cramming anything into submission :). I can say that there are times (and they are growing), when I can look in the mirror and say "You're actually kind of pretty". I want to be all about the positive now, while flattering the faults.

[Elijah]

I will admit, without shame, that what catches My eye is someones overall appearance and demeanor, initially.

However, this attraction will dissipate very quickly if she doesn't poses other, more important traits that I look for. Intelligence, kindness, grace, humor, loyalty, open mindedness, drive, and humanity are keys to keeping Me engaged.

Understand that I don't just expect those things from her, I also expect them from Myself...I must be willing to offer those (what I see as attractive traits) to expect them in return.

So, no shame...just truth.

Thanks for the thought provoking thread...

[Darbonaire]

I notice attractiveness first....can't deny it...eyes, hair, tits, femininity....BUT, if there is disturst, or i feel any sort of uncomfortable feeling at all...then I step back & address that inside myself.......I believe there are people out there who "look" the part & fall VERY sort of damn near even being classified as human.....lol....but, I really want to get to know someone from now on. I want honesty....don't be who you think I want you to be...be who you really are & we'll take it from there......there's always room for friendships....always !

[Nomad]

as a woman who has never been attractive, i always wonder what people see when they look at me. and then i back up on that thought because there are times when i really dont want to know. there are also times when what people see (or think) when they see me is clearly visible in their expressions.

my father used to tell me (when i would cry about being unattractive) that there was nothing anyone could do to make me feel better about the way i looked except me. to this day i agree with him, but i still havent managed to feel any better about the way i look. what i've managed to do is tell myself "at least i know that when i'm appreciated by someone it's for something more significant than physical attractiveness." my father also used to say something like 'the way you make other people feel is what they'll see when they look at you.' it's a sobering memory today, 35 years later, when i look back on a life not necessarily well lived. there arent that many people who will 'see' something bad when they think about how i make them feel but there are some and that's kind of disturbing because i hate the idea of making people feel badly. or maybe it's my ego that hates the idea. regardless, i take comfort in my only saving grace ---> knowing that i didnt put effort into making someone feel badly on purpose.

when i think of how my physical attractiveness (or lack thereof) has changed over the years i realize that with age i have come to appreciate more about myself physically, while at the same time bemoaning the fact that what i have the maturity to appreciate now is being ravaged by gravity. :lol2: (translation: i dislike seeing my mother looking back at me when i look in the mirror) but mostly because i dont want to look like anyone else. i want to look like me. (ok. i wouldnt mind looking like Adele for a week ----- just sayin') i'm more able to appreciate a lot of things about myself now, certainly more than i could appreciate 10, 20, 30 years ago when my age automatically gave me a leg up on the cultural attractiveness scale. now that i'm close to 50 i keep crossing my fingers that old and quirky looking fat girls will be "in" soon. i'd like to see women like me be the definition of beauty according to cultural standards, just once. or maybe, just maybe, it's time for a new culture.

[Ciaran]

I am attracted, at least initially, by looks.

However, it's difficult for me to articulate that in any meaningful way as, for me, I don't have a defined "type". I tend to be physically attracted to only a small proportion of women. However, other than that they look on the feminine side of the scale, they could be large, small, dark haired, blonde, curvy or less curvy. Therefore, my initial attraction seems rather sporadic and random. Quite why I'm initially attracted to one person rather than another I'm not sure.

As regards making it meaningful. I don't need intelligence - at least not in any sort of academic way. In fact, it can be a turn-off to me. Such people often try my patience. However, I do need intelligence in a broader, common sense manner and, more so, the person needs to be reasonably aware of the world around them (whether we agree on what should be done about the burning issues of the day or not; inevitably, we don't).

Personality-wise, at least for me, opposites attract. I'm rather dour, conservative, staunch, judgemental and incredibly guttural. I find that I am attracted to much lighter, more fun-loving personalities. Also, my ideal partner has that blend of strength and vulnerability. Interestingly, whilst I'd usually see them as positive traits, those I'm attracted to are not necessarily nice or kind.

Attraction is a combination of the above for me and sometimes, though not too often, it comes together in a package. I don't have many absolutes

[Gráinne]

I am attracted, at least initially, by looks.

However, it's difficult for me to articulate that in any meaningful way as, for me, I don't have a defined "type". I tend to be physically attracted to only a small proportion of women. However, other than that they look on the feminine side of the scale, they could be large, small, dark haired, blonde, curvy or less curvy. Therefore, my initial attraction seems rather sporadic and random. Quite why I'm initially attracted to one person rather than another I'm not sure.

As regards making it meaningful. I don't need intelligence - at least not in any sort of academic way. In fact, it can be a turn-off to me. Such people often try my patience. However, I do need intelligence in a broader, common sense manner and, more so, the person needs to be reasonably aware of the world around them (whether we agree on what should be done about the burning issues of the day or not; inevitably, we don't).

Personality-wise, at least for me, opposites attract. I'm rather dour, conservative, staunch, judgemental and incredibly guttural. I find that I am attracted to much lighter, more fun-loving personalities. Also, my ideal partner has that blend of strength and vulnerability. Interestingly, whilst I'd usually see them as positive traits, those I'm attracted to are not necessarily nice or kind.

Attraction is a combination of the above for me and sometimes, though not too often, it comes together in a package. I don't have many absolutes

Now I realize I forgot to answer the original question :blush:, which was "what attracts you, and why?"

Short answer: I have no idea. It's so very random.

Long answer (and you knew it was coming):

Looks: When I first came out, I had no idea of the butch-femme community, but interestingly, my first partner was a more masculine-looking woman (although she did not call herself butch). I find many of my feminine-looking friends wildly beautiful, but it doesn't translate into a sexual attraction for them (they're mostly straight :P).

I guess as the process of coming out proceeded, and I found a "niche" in b-f, then gradually an attraction to ever more masculine looks and energy emerged. But within that caveat, there's no preference as to size or hair. I like taller than me, but the world is taller than I am. Other than that, I've no rhyme or reason.

Intelligence (since this seems a big one): I too have found that many very book-smart people are insufferable know-it-alls, and I hope never to be one. There's nothing wrong with book smarts in itself, but arrogance turns me right off like a faucet. I have also known superbly book-smart people who are cultural and world-events dummies.

I like a broad spectrum of topics to talk about, without feeling like someone is "talking down" at me. I'm no expert in politics in America, let alone any other country, but someone willing to discuss things and help me "fill in the blanks" is very attractive.

I don't want a carbon-copy of myself with regards to interests, but I want interests beyond trash TV and celebrities in tabloids. Ask me obscure questions or questions that make me think, and I'm right there :). Whether or not I've met you in person, I need to sense strong general intelligence and down-to-earthness for attraction to happen. This is not the same as an intellectual snob.

Personality: I like a wry sense of humor. I need someone who can make me laugh, and who can take good-natured banter. I'm actually drawn to more serious people than myself. I think that counterpart grounds me and is calming. I'm attracted to someone who's allergic to drama and who is a steadying influence to my emotionality. That said, I need someone who is actually aware of their emotions, not shut down. I need some sense of vulnerability, of softness. Gentleness.

Every time I try to define my type, though, it just doesn't work. Who knows?

[Rockinonahigh]

What attracts me to someone is a hard thing to put a finger on.sometimes its the wild woman who trpis my switch or the sly wishful look with a cute smile that makes me wonder if she is so much the little girl,or the woman who is on a power play..they need to be carefull because I have and will bite.What really helps is dont be afraid to look me in the eyes,talk to me about anything cause im a reader and deep thinker a poet and ex wild child that finely lerned to be human...sorta.I do have souther gentle ways learned from a long line of southern gentle people.Now on the other hand I really don't have any idea what people see when they look at me,sometimes I would like to be able to look though theire eyes and see for my self.

[MissItalianDiva]

Hmm great topic. For me I would love to say that physical attraction is not important but I would be lying. Of course the first initial attraction is typically physical for me but with time what will hold my attraction is intellectual stimulation and emotional maturity.

I found the hard way that while looks are a great quality if a person does not possess the emotional or mental/intellectually qualities I value and need then they don't look so physically attractive any longer. Same goes on the flip side. I have met folks who I was not initially physically attracted to but as time progressed and I got to know them and we connected on an intellectual level they became very physically attractive to me.

I can't say one outweighs another for me but I can say it needs to be balanced in order for my attraction to remain. I am one of those people that once I see something that is unattractive I am immediately not interested. Perhaps it is not fair but it is the way I am.

[not2shygrrl]

What is attractive to me is their energy. The zap I get when someone enters a room, be it in person or even in chat. This works both ways, positive as well as negative. I am however human and physical attraction does have a part, but definitely lower on the scale. Things such as how she speaks, choices of words, tone, what she does not say is equally important. Without having a direct window into her inner self, there are attractions I feel from her just being her. Be that she is in a tool belt...or tu-tu. Although if I were to say observations of her are a huge factor, those observations have nary a thing to do with what she looks like. It has everything to do with her emotions and how she manages them. Her energy.........will make me *swoon* so c'mon.......zap me Baby!! :)

[FeminineAllure]

It is ALL about a strong foundation.
You can attract me by your looks in a head turn but inside over time become ugly.
If we share a friendship first. Then a foundation that includes communication, trust, respect, loyality... and a spiritual connection, it is likely to become a lasting attraction.
The entire package.

[Darbonaire]

It is ALL about a strong foundation.
You can attract me by your looks in a head turn but inside over time become ugly.
If we share a friendship first. Then a foundation that includes communication, trust, respect, loyality... and a spiritual connection, it is likely to become a lasting attraction.
The entire package.

Absolutely..the entire package...& that takes time to truly "see" & appreciate...or not.....great post Allure.....as always..<smile>....

[Nomad]

you know, i'm just not turned on by looks. oh sure, a brief well hello there (fan)moment over a celeb or something from time to time but it doesnt bunch my panties on even a superficial personal level. now if someone is intelligent and funny and has that naturally dominant toppish energy that makes them cocky and charming and flirtatious then my knickers get twisted. confidence is sexy to the Nth degree and i hate --- also to the Nth degree --- when someone fakes it and i find out later that they dont really own it and they cant really bring it and they've been looking to me as their source for ego. i want the A-game, all day, every day, easy breezy beautiful because i'm worth it --- again, to the Nth degree i'm worth it, and i'm ready to prove it if you can prove that you can handle me and i'm a damn handful so put on your fireproof boxers. yes you can have an off day. yes you can ask my opinion, my advice, for my support and to be left off a pedestal. but if you're doing the role rather than being the person i'm vehemently not interested so dont pretend and dont medicate your lack of self esteem with me. i fall all over the place for natural authority. quiet, balanced, thoughtful, firm, not forced, unpretentious, still able to laugh at yourself, generous authority. i'm proverbially verklempt over it and you either have it with me or you dont. no insult, no fuss, no muss, it's just there or it isnt. i've been known to gravitate toward it in friends and acquaintance from time to time and even have a couple of role models on the Planet that embody that energy to the core. call it chemistry if you like. all i know is when you have it, i begin to think of you as You. i like that in my life. i like it a lot.

[Gráinne]

And the $64,000 question...Why do we feel attraction for someone in the first place? And why does it so often go against our "type"?

I mean, take this thread and somewhere, there's a "love list" thread, in which myself and other people have tried to describe ideal partners and the "type" we say we're attracted to. But many, if not most, of us have been fixed up with someone who seemed to have everything on the list and on paper, sounded perfect...but there's no chemistry, no "heat" when you meet. You know what I'm talking about.

And the opposite is true, and chemistry makes a sneak attack, unexpected. Sometimes, that person is a big flapping red flag with feet, and sometimes it really does turn out that they have the qualities which you seek. I personally believe "heat" is obviously a lot of fun, but real compatibility takes time to ferret out.

But that's the maddening part. Wouldn't it save a lot of grief and time if we only felt chemistry with someone suitable? But we're complex people and life just isn't that simple.

I suppose that's just a rhetorical question. We can list and list all we want, but sometimes it's a big mystery.

[Duchess]

I don't think it's shallow for attraction to begin with appearance. Reading the body language, are they well groomed, listening to them speak, etc...tells you so much about a person. It could possibly save you a lot of wasted time to simply observe a person when possible.

[homoe]

~~
My attraction has mostly been to femme women.

There have been rare cases when it was a butch! In one case, we met at a mutual friend's party, I think I was attracted to her because she was such a kind, caring, and thoughtful person, you know the kind of person who'd give you the shirt off their back if they thought you needed it more than them!

A romance never developed, but we got to be good friends. Then she left Milwaukee and moved to St Louis. I hadn't thought of her in ages until I came this thread.

[Gemme]

My view on attraction is the same as I originally posted on page 1 all those years ago but I just noticed that Duchess was the last poster before homoe. She had such good energy, which is important in all relationships. (f)