Warning Signs of Abusive Relationships

[Girl_On_Fire]

For the past year I've struggled to come to terms with the verbally abusive and toxic relationship I had with my ex. I know it will take a long time to fully heal from the damage. I also know I'm not alone. Millions of people have been in verbally, physically, and sexually abusive relationships. In some cases, all three.

I'd like to start a thread discussing the potential warning signs of abusive relationships, which may help those who might be unknowingly entering into one think twice about getting further involved. Also, for those who have difficulty recognizing them often and follow a harmful pattern. (I definitely fall into this category).

For those of you who have been in abusive relationships and feel comfortable sharing:


What were your first warning signs that something was wrong?
Were there actions or behaviors that you may have missed or dismissed at first only to later realize were big red flags?
Do you have any advice you'd like to give to others so they they too, don't go through what you've been through?


Education is very important and how many of us have come from families where we were treated less-than-lovingly and therefore weren't quite aware how we were supposed to be treated in relationships as an adult?

This is our thread. Survivors-turned-educators unite!

[cinnamongrrl]

You're certainly not alone.... <3

It takes a lot of strength to leave even a bad situation....

I will likely post here at a time when I can better collect my thoughts on the matter...

[Sweet Bliss]

:|

It is the holiday season.

and you want to go there now?

Why?

Are the holidays not tough enough for those of us who are already struggling?

Alone?

Etc.?

This feels like a bash party. Already mentioning exes as the abusers. :seeingstars:


Every story has sliver of truth. Not the whole truth.

[Gemme]

:|

It is the holiday season.

and you want to go there now?

Why?

Are the holidays not tough enough for those of us who are already struggling?

Alone?

Etc.?

This feels like a bash party. Already mentioning exes as the abusers. :seeingstars:


Every story has sliver of truth. Not the whole truth.

Wow.

Just wow.

Okay, Bliss. When IS it appropriate to talk about abuse and how to potentially avoid and/or get out of it?

Support is support and I'm sure, even during the holidays and probably moreso with the stress placed on people, that abuse occurs.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this feels excessively judgemental.

[TruTexan]

Thanks Gem, for reading my mind and posting what I was thinking .

[Gemme]

For those of you who have been in abusive relationships and feel comfortable sharing:


What were your first warning signs that something was wrong?
Were there actions or behaviors that you may have missed or dismissed at first only to later realize were big red flags?
Do you have any advice you'd like to give to others so they they too, don't go through what you've been through?


Education is very important and how many of us have come from families where we were treated less-than-lovingly and therefore weren't quite aware how we were supposed to be treated in relationships as an adult?

This is our thread. Survivors-turned-educators unite!

Okay, so I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole regarding exes. Bliss has a point there. No fingers should be pointed at anyone, only taking a good, hard look at oneself and how to make one's relationships healthier.

First warning signs?

Twisting gut, uneasiness. Tingling Spidey sense.

Red flags?

Controlling behavior, frequently changing mood swings, unnecessary suspicion and jealousy. Blaming others for one's own actions, choices and decisions.

Advice?

Sure. But it would be tailored to their specific circumstances if I were privy to them.

[Girl_On_Fire]

:|

It is the holiday season.

and you want to go there now?

Why?

Are the holidays not tough enough for those of us who are already struggling?

Alone?

Etc.?

This feels like a bash party. Already mentioning exes as the abusers. :seeingstars:


Every story has sliver of truth. Not the whole truth.

You know what? This has got to be at least the third thread of mine where you have tried to tell me what to write or what to talk about. You even had the nerve to send me a private message once telling me you didn't like my topic and what I should write about instead. I believe your suggestion was, "Best pick-up lines"?

I ignored you because I couldn't believe any member would have the nerve to actually PM another member to tell them what to write. You are not a moderator. I don't know you. I have no idea what you problem is with me but get over it. If something I've written is offensive or in violation of the TOS on this board, a moderator will tell me, not you.

I know I don't technically have the right to tell you not to post anything on my threads anymore but I really wish you wouldn't. This thread was not about you or your feelings on appropriate or inappropriate topics.

I wasn't thinking about "the Holidays" when I wrote this. Do you honestly think I wrote about my own personal pain and opened up like that so somebody I don't even know can tell me it's inappropriate timing!? This isn't a Holiday board! If all you can handle is Fun/Fluff topics than stick to those threads and leave my serious ones alone. I don't want to hear it from you anymore.

*steps off soapbox*

Now, for everyone else who wants to have a serious, honest discussion about this, please feel free to share. This thread is for support and open communication. Understanding the red flags of abuse is incredibly important. It could save a life. This goes doubly in a community that often overlooks domestic abuse among same-sex couples.

[MissItalianDiva]

Does abuse stop on holidays? Is it exempt from occurring in Dec...Guess I do actually learn something new everyday

[Gemme]

Okay.

This fell apart pretty quickly.

The moderators are in place for a reason. Anyone that has issues with anyone can go to them. For moderation. Because they are moderators. It's kinda their thing.

:blink:

How about we pretend not to see the personal stuff and move on with a topic that's relevant and worthwhile?

[nycfem]

MESSAGE FROM MODS:

There have been a number of reported posts from this thread. Warning signs of an abusive relationship is an important issue and does sometimes come up more around the holidays which are a stressful time for many. Because it's a stressful time for many of us and a heated topic in general, let's all make an effort to state our opinions respectfully and stick to the topic. Also, please do not post in a specific way about someone on the site. This doesn't mean you can't post on this thread if you have an abusive ex on the site. After all, sometimes we end up in a pattern of abusive relationships, so it wouldn't be fair to tell people who have dated anyone on this site who they deem to have been abusive not to post. Just use some judgment in not posting about a specific person and the specific experiences with that person and instead focus on your own experience in general in relation to warning signs of abuse.

[Teddybear]

the warning signs I can tell you about are as follows:

they isolate you and themselves from everything

the littlest thing sets them off

your always at fault even if you had NOTHING to do with whatever is ticking them off

Not all abuse is physical most of the time it starts out verbally or emotional which is just as damaging if not more so. who can see it.

My advice would be try to remember that NO matter what anyone else says U r just as important. No one has the right to make you their punching bag. There is help out there use it

I want to post more however now isnt the time

[Girl_On_Fire]

MESSAGE FROM MODS:

There have been a number of reported posts from this thread. Warning signs of an abusive relationship is an important issue and does sometimes come up more around the holidays which are a stressful time for many. Because it's a stressful time for many of us and a heated topic in general, let's all make an effort to state our opinions respectfully and stick to the topic. Also, please do not post in a specific way about someone on the site. This doesn't mean you can't post on this thread if you have an abusive ex on the site. After all, sometimes we end up in a pattern of abusive relationships, so it wouldn't be fair to tell people who have dated anyone on this site who they deem to have been abusive not to post. Just use some judgment in not posting about a specific person and the specific experiences with that person and instead focus on your own experience in general in relation to warning signs of abuse.

Thank you very much for this. I think it's very important that I clarify that this post is not some thinly-veiled attempt to "call out" the ex that I used as an example. That person is not on this board. If this person was, I would not be here and I would not be opening this topic up for discussion. This thread also has nothing to do with requesting sympathy from anyone for what I've been through. My only intention (for those of who are familiar with my threads, I use this word a lot) was to start a discussion among survivors who might be able to help others through either the process of recovery or the prevention of a possibly unsafe relationship by understanding red flags and warning signs before the relationship progresses.

Considering may people also engage in long-distance relationships (myself included) understanding the warning signs before uprooting your life and moving in with someone (or having that person move in with you) could potentially save a lot of money, heartbreak, time, energy, and maybe even a life.

I really would like this to be a healthy, open discussion from here on in.

[little_ms_sunshyne]

I was involved in an abusive relationship. This was several years ago. It was difficult for me to come to the realization that I was in an emotionally and verbally abusive relationship. My biggest sign was when I withdrew from my family and friends. I lied to cover up for small things that the ex did and my anxiety was through the roof. I began working longer hours as to not spend too much time at home. I completely lost my identity and became someone I didn't recognize. Trying not to go into "war stories" but these were my signs.

Thank you for starting this thread.

[The_Lady_Snow]

*I* personally believe that to stop the pattern or attract abusers is to learn out *self worth*, sometimes we end up in bad situations because we don't realize or accept our value and settle for someone treating us in a way that we should not be treated. Sometimes when we are in that space we miss signs such as:

isolation from friends and family

verbal attacks, twist on words to deflect off their actions

anyone raising their hand at you or threatening you

feeling like you have to walk on eggshells around your partner/boyfriend/girlfriend

having to watch what you say or do to avoid a blow up

they try to control you

they belittle you

If you or anyone you love feel like you are in an abusive situation please call someone for help, get some therapy, but don't ever keep it a secret or not tell anyone when you are feeling any of these things...

[TruTexan]

Someone who cries victim a lot is sometimes the abuser. Huge Red Flag. The rest of the red flags, there's just so many that are so different.

[Teddybear]

Please KNOW that isnt always the femme that is abused sometimes it is the butch or ftm who is being abused

just like it isnt always women being abused by men

take gender or gender identity out of it

Abusers come in all shapes and sizes just cause YOU think they look like the girl/boy next door doesnt mean they R

[nycfem]

I've been in a number of abusive relationships (prior to my long-term current relationship). For those of us from abusive families, an abusive relationship can feel comfortable because it is familiar and our "normal." Conversely, a healthy relationship can initially, in my experience, feel uneasy, even boring. I've been in my current relationship over eight years, and it's been a growing process to get used to receiving consistent kindness and even to relax and enjoy it. Anyway, here are some of the memories that come to mind as signs that I was in an abusive relationship:

- the person treats me beautifully in public in front of people we know and horrible at home

- someone at work looked at me and said, "Something is wrong in your life right now. You can deny it but I can see it everyday on your face."

- there are sometimes no triggers at all why someone frequently blows up, i have to guess why, and if it ever does come to light it makes no sense, is nothing i could have ever predicted

- i'm not sleeping, not eating right, not exercising, crying, always trying to please the person, spending most of the relationship in conflict, with the occasional high of being forgiven for the moment, making lists of why to stay or leave, constantly thinking about leaving or breaking up and getting back together over and over

[*Anya*]

My ex-husband was an abuser.

Since he is a bio man and is now married to his third wife, he is not on this site.

I really did not see warning signs but I married him at 18 to escape my abusive parents, so it was what I knew and what was familiar.

The first time he hit me, he backhanded me across the face.

It got really bad when I was pregnant.

The worst was when he sat on my stomach when I was pregnant with my second baby and punched me.

>>> Statically, 1 in 6 abused women reports that her partner first became abusive during pregnancy. According to the Center for Disease Control, at least 4 to 8 percent of pregnant women report suffering abuse.

6 months after my second baby was born, we split and never went back together. The day he moved out, I found a therapist.

I learned a lot in therapy about what I felt I deserved and what I was worth. I still struggle with those core beliefs. Hard to undo 18-years of training. Not impossible, just very difficult.

I have not been with an abuser since.

Honestly, it feels like a lifetime ago for me.

I remember it like watching a movie that happened to someone else.

[JAGG]

Anger management issues should be a red flag. Getting inappropriately angered over a minor situation, and or not being able to wait for a proper time to discuss things. Lashing out in a public manner would be a huge red flag to me. They don't seem to care that God and everyone with in a 20 mile raduis knows they are angry. They take their anger out by doing things like drive way too fast and cut people off. There is a time and place for everything, if they can't wait for the proper time and place that should be a red flag.
They have intitlement issues. If they are wronged in some way they want to even the score. They are vengeful. Even in small matters. Someone doesn't take off fast enough when a red light turns green so they fly around them and then slam on their brakes when they get in front of that person just to "teach them a lesson".

The way they treat strangers and the way they treat anyone, is eventually the way they will treat you.
How many close friends do they have? How many long term friends do they have? If the answer is none or very few you have to ask yourself why is that?
If they are not close with their family on top of having little to no friends you have to wonder why. Now I know some families really suck and are disfunctional beyond repair, but you can't over look the fact that they have no contact with family and very few friends.
If they are what is called a job hopper. Can't keep a job for very long . Has been fired a lot from jobs. You have to wonder why. It can't always be everyone elses fault.
They try to keep you away from your friends and family. Or come up with reasons why they don't like this friend or that friend and don't you to be around them. You are both adults and as an adult you have to learn to get along with others . The better you can get along with people even ones that irritate you, the more successful you will be in life. As adults we don't cut people out of our lives because someone decided they don't want you around someone.You end a friendship or severe ties with a loved one because you decided that person is not good for you someone else doesn't get to decide that. And you picked these friends long before they came along they don't have the right to decide who gets to be your friend and who doesn't. But you have the right to decide that they need to pick a new girlfriend.
If someone makes a statement like, I am not relationship material, or you don't want to be in a relationship with me, I'm too this or too that. Believe them !!! And run right then!!! DO NOT ASK WHY and don't think you want to prove them wrong by trying. JUST RUN !!! Trust the universe did you a favor and count your blessing every step you take in the opposite direction.

Okay I hope that helped a little . I am sure I will think of more and post again later. I am not an expert by any stretch and I have never been in an abusive relationship, I have been blessed to have had many wonderful femmes in my life, a few bad apples too but never abusive. But I have seen many friends of mine, go through things, so these are a few mental notes I have taken through the years.

[Girl_On_Fire]

From those who have come forward with their signs, it's like reading my own story. It's very validating for me to know that now, looking back, I'm seeing those signs for what they are and also recognizing them when they come back around. I recently saw these red flags in someone I was casually seeing a few months back and hy lied about trivial things, went from calm to angry instantly, and tried to tell me what I could and couldn't tell my family. This time, I knew enough to walk away and that's a good thing. It's progress.

I think there is something to say for feeling self-worth. I know now beyond a shadow of a doubt that I love and respect myself. I thought I did before I got into that abusive relationship. I actually had everything going for me at the time. I had a great job, a great living situation with my roommate, and I was physically healthier than I'd ever been. I was on top of the world. Then, my ex and I got back in contact and, as crazy as it may sound, it was as though I was under some sort of spell.

Within 3 months, I had moved 800 miles away from everything I had ever known to be with hym. Quit school. Sold my car and everything. I knew it was a mistake the next day. I felt it. Something about the way hy looked at me and talked to me was completely different. Like hys guard dropped because hy didn't have to put up a front anymore. I mean, I say I knew but I think only a small part of me figured it out. The rest stayed in denial. That's the mode of survival. Should I have turned around and moved back? Of course. But that would mean I was thinking rationally at the time, which I certainly wasn't.

Anyway, it doesn't matter that hy and I knew each other off and on for the better part of a decade. You really don't know someone until you live with them. When it's long-distance, it can be much easier to miss the red flags. And, like others have said, if abuse, whether physical or mental was "normal" for you growing up, you really don't see them at all even if they are glaring to others.

I think the true sign of being out of the pattern is feeling sick to your stomach when you think what you put up with for so long. I used to think that disgusted feeling was a bad thing but maybe it's not. Maybe it's a sign of growth.

[Gráinne]

Thankfully, I have not had an abusive relationship since I came out, and only one with a man that could be called abusive. That said, I second all of JAGG's post, and won't reinvent the wheel. I also add these:

*I wish I'd paid attention to drinking behavior very early in the relationship. I'm not calling all drinking a harbringer of abuse. I am saying that someone whose personality changes drastically, who becomes angry when drinking, or whose free time revolves around drinking or partying may be showing signs of alcoholism at the least, and may be abusive when drunk.

*It's OK to admire someone. But don't do as I did and put someone on a pedestal and make that person a font of wisdom to straighten out your life. A non-abusive person will get back down and will demand a relationship of equals. An abusive person, however, will "know what is best for you" and you will end up with no voice and no right (in their eyes) to question them. That's a very powerless feeling.

*Watch out for the Nice Guy, who is kind to you not because they are a kind person but because they are putting "kind deeds" into an emotional bank account, out of which they want to "pay" for a relationship with you. This is someone who may come on too good to be true, or who is always there with a shoulder to lean on, but if you tell them you don't like them as a partner but only as a friend, watch out! You'll be called a bitch, or worse. I've had this happen with men, but I'm pretty sure a variation happens in B-F relationships.

Advice is really hard to give, as there are so many individual stories. I'd say trust your gut and your "little voice". If it feels wrong, back away.

[Kätzchen]

I grew up in a highly toxic environment (complete with unimaginable acts of abuse committed against me). So, for the longest time, after I divorced myself from my family, I made a deal with myself to remain committed to my own personal safety – but yet, doing that alone was not enough – as I learned over the course of three other similar toxic and highly abusive situations. But, it’s been awhile since I have been in a toxic, abusive relationship.

Technically speaking: The last toxic and abusive relationship I was in (which was several years ago now), was the tipping point which helped me to make better decisions for my own personal safety and well being.

Here are a couple of ideas from past experiences I can share about:


If you have a close set of friends who know you well and they come to you and try to talk to you about sudden changes in your life, pay attention to them: Listen to them - try really hard to hear what they’re saying. They know you best and are acting in your best interest and are trying to help you.
If you don’t have anyone to turn to, seek the assistance of your local DV shelter for counseling and support. Counselors and therapists who work with people who are in toxic and abusive relationships are highly trained professionals and will give you the best advice possible. Act on their advice, even if it doesn’t make sense to you. Their advice is the most objective and seeks the highest level of safety for you.


Remember: Be gentle and kind to you.
Be the best friend you can be to yourself (first).
Know your own limits and reward yourself for making good decisions.
Surround yourself with people who genuinely care about you (and listen to them).

[Medusa]

Abusive people often use the same tools to accomplish their goals of humiliating their partners, making them feel unsafe, controlling them, etc.

* Underlying currents of dominance where they try different tactics to control you. Whether it be shaming you for what you wear to limiting your access to family, friends, money, or a vehicle.
* Never taking responsibility for their behavior or choices. Instead, they might find ways to make it your fault or the fault of everyone around them and thus, will have an "excuse" to act out.
* Intimidation is a big one - Threats to you or your family. Trying to fuck with your job. Physical abuse.


There are a lot of good resources here:
http://www.rainbowdomesticviolence.itgo.com

[Sweet Bliss]

Abuse comes in many forms and disguises.

And it never, never, ever seems to take a holiday.

As some first responders will share, holidays are the worst.

Like many I feel as if I have received my full "share" of what I call abuse.

Every story is told from the perspective of the story teller. My story is no different. I can share what little I have learned on my earth walk. Maybe it helps someone, maybe it doesn't. I prefer to listen and encourage the speaker. Rehashing the past, telling my "story " has not helped me heal any faster or better. Forgiving, having gratitude, sharing material and spiritual gifts has been the best healing process for me.

Many "helpers" appear when I least expect to point the way for me in various forms. Books, quotes that folks here at BFP post, friends casual talks, weird movies, odd moments, something my grandchildren say or do.

Thank you for sharing your perspective regarding your experience with me. Noted.

[RockOn]

Grainne, I am quoting you below. What you wrote in this quote speaks massive volumes to me. When I read this, the last of my confusion fell away - everything became crystal clear. Thank you so much for your post!
You've no idea how much it helped me to read it.

-----------------------------------------

Quoting Grainne:
*Watch out for the Nice Guy, who is kind to you not because they are a kind person but because they are putting "kind deeds" into an emotional bank account, out of which they want to "pay" for a relationship with you. This is someone who may come on too good to be true ...

-----------------------------------------

By the way -
Please forgive my presentation style (or lack of) ... I am using a cell phone. And it has issues.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Grainne, I am quoting you below. What you wrote in this quote speaks massive volumes to me. When I read this, the last of my confusion fell away - everything became crystal clear. Thank you so much for your post!
You've no idea how much it helped me to read it.

-----------------------------------------

Quoting Grainne:
*Watch out for the Nice Guy, who is kind to you not because they are a kind person but because they are putting "kind deeds" into an emotional bank account, out of which they want to "pay" for a relationship with you. This is someone who may come on too good to be true ...

-----------------------------------------

By the way -
Please forgive my presentation style (or lack of) ... I am using a cell phone. And it has issues.

The emotional bank account thing rings true for me as well and I'll even add a bit to it: Anyone who does something for you and then turns around and uses that act against you in an argument or heated discussion is a red flag. "Well, I did this and this and this for you and you can't do that for me?" I mean, I could see someone being upset in a relationship where they were receiving no reciprocity but that can also be used as a means to confuse and control. Especially if you have no clear understanding of what's being asked of you or what you're being asked to do is in some way inappropriate in the context of your relationship. It's a grey area and hard to describe but I feel it's a red flag, even if it's one that can be easy to mask or hide.

Another one, which could be added to this for clarity, is the rules always change. What was okay one day is not okay the next and it happens often. This is another way an abuser can confuse their target and make them turn it around on themselves. This is verbal/emotional abuse at its finest.

Emotional blackmail can also be added to this. You've "done something" that has angered your partner but they refuse to explain it to you, instead denying love and using this "indiscretion" as a means to justify further abuse. Very creepy and unfortunately, very effective.

[not2shygrrl]

Some of what I read here has been my past experience....but only once, not quite for a year.....and after therapy I learned to not ignore those red flags and how lucky I was to have gotten out of it in that time frame.

I want to add that people who are abusive will target others who are naive, non confrontational, accepting and more. I guess it is a form of profiling (from the abusers) and has nothing to do with love. Sometimes there are only brief moments of what feels like "normal"....and support comes indirectly from places like this thread, when read can also leave someone who experienced abuse to feel not so alone and that there is hope......of getting beyond it and learning.

[cara]

A few years ago, I took a great class on relationship skills through the Northwest Network, which is a Seattle-based organization for GLBT survivors of abuse. Here is a link to some resources (http://nwnetwork.org/resources/info-and-articles/) on their website.

Cara

[always2late]

I think that the most insidious form of abuse is the one that is not overt, because it is seldom recognized AS abuse while it is occurring. Emotional manipulation, threats of self-harm or suicide, the abuser claiming that they are being victimized or even claiming to suffer some form of abuse at the hands of the person they are abusing....these can often be overlooked as the truly abusive acts that they are...and can be more damaging because they are, at times, tolerated or excused for far longer than physical abuse would be.

[Jar]

Please KNOW that isnt always the femme that is abused sometimes it is the butch or ftm who is being abused

Thanks for making this point.

I agree with a lot of what's been said .....
* Isolation from friends and family
* angry outbursts out of the blue
* the silent treatment for no reason
* putting their behavior on you such as accusing you of lying when there's no grounds for it
* not communicating which is vital for any healthy relationship

I've learned to listen to that little gut instinct because it's always right. I also agree that it's a valid thread especially this time of year. Lots of people are stressed and/or depressed this time of year and take it out on the ones closest to them.

Another one, which could be added to this for clarity, is the rules always change. What was okay one day is not okay the next and it happens often. This is another way an abuser can confuse their target and make them turn it around on themselves. This is verbal/emotional abuse at its finest.

A good point. An emotional abuser can turn things around and make you believe it's YOU that's the problem. Some are very good at it

[Nic]

Something that always surprises me about abuse is the talent abusers have for misdirection. They seem especially skilled at shining light on the normal human stupidity and flaws of others thus making themselves look less culpable or even innocent.

Recently heard a group of people speak, in turn, about what it was like to be taken in by an abuser. One guy talked about not knowing that his best friend was an abuser and how traumatic the discovery was. He wasn't even in denial. He simply didn't see it because the man was just that good at what he did. Another woman spoke about being in denial and ignoring some things that had set off warning sirens in her head. Took her years to realize that the abuser she knew was manipulating her into doubting herself so she talked herself out of seeing what was in front of her face. One woman spoke about refusing to believe, despite seeing evidence every day, that a long time close friend was abusing his partner. Most of them had a story about a third person who pointed out their denial and several talked very frankly about either a pre-existing or a sudden underlying feeling of dislike for the person being abused which helped prevent them from seeing the truth. But every story had the same feature: the abuser was good at garnering sympathy for themselves, were able to sound very reasonable to friends and family, and were skilled at magnifying the flaws and mistakes of the abused person in a way that made that person seem easy to dislike or discount. They also talked about resisting the truth when it was presented to them and trying to find a way to excuse the abuser's behavior. Only about 1/4 of them believed abuse was taking place the first time they were told about it.

[Nic]

Thanks for making this point.

I agree with a lot of what's been said .....
* Isolation from friends and family
* angry outbursts out of the blue
* the silent treatment for no reason
* putting their behavior on you such as accusing you of lying when there's no grounds for it
* not communicating which is vital for any healthy relationship

I've learned to listen to that little gut instinct because it's always right. I also agree that it's a valid thread especially this time of year. Lots of people are stressed and/or depressed this time of year and take it out on the ones closest to them.

Another one, which could be added to this for clarity, is the rules always change. What was okay one day is not okay the next and it happens often. This is another way an abuser can confuse their target and make them turn it around on themselves. This is verbal/emotional abuse at its finest.

A good point. An emotional abuser can turn things around and make you believe it's YOU that's the problem. Some are very good at it

Well said.

My girl's therapist gave me a website to check out in order to read more about the experiences of other people. Some of the stuff is pretty hard to take. Had to tackle it in small sessions.

www.lovefraud.com

[Bard]

emotional abuse comes in a lot of forms I guess I did not see it at first possibly because of my growing up and not being wanted or as I thought loved (by my mother ). I stayed in a relationship that was emotionally abusive for 12 years and did not see it at first perhaps I thought I deserved it and in a way it was subtle. but there were signs like I would never show her my writing because she would pick it apart laugh. one year I was away overseas with the military during Thanksgiving and I called home and emailed I got fussed at for calling to early and told to make sure I used punctuational and watch my spelling. a big turning point was at her baby shower that I threw for her a co worker of mine came my Corporal and after she was worried enough about me to go to our Sgt because of the way she treated me an talked to me the CPL was worried I was in a emotional abusive relationship. the thing for me was I did not want to be alone so I took it my self worth was not there and there was a child our daughter and she could take her from me. MY EX is not a bad person and she is not on the site she would be belittling of us here her self worth is damaged to from how she grew up. it is a cycle .. that I will not allow to be passed to our daughter.. I grew from this and with the help and love from a lot of people here in this space I realized that I am worthy that I don't need to change to be loved and then I met desd and I was trying to be anything just me and she loves me all of me flaws everything

[Teddybear]

This thread as really made my brain hurt but not in a really bad way. Im am now able to see what when and by whom. I wont ignore the signs again.

Most ppl who get into abusive relationship had their 1st abuser as a child someone who was suppose to love, and PROTECT them. My first abuser was my father hell he still tries and in some ways is still doing it.

Im sure if he had been there when I was born I may not be here today. That is a truth I feel and Im thankful that I am here today and God willing will be here for some time to come.

I have been in several abusive relationship however each and everyone of them was different in some form.

One was dealing with mental illness and she really tried NOT to put it on to others however things happened. I learned to read her and tell when she wasnt holding together well. She refused to get help at the time. I finally had to go.

Im still processing the others. I have had to take a long hard look at ME. I have had to change things about ME.

An abuser KNOWS what to look for in their victims. They are professionals at it. They know how to portray this innocence that draws us in, makes us believe they arent who they truly are.

I am NOT saying we are at fault for being abused. I AM saying that some how each of us has just what they are looking for. They can find us in a crowd even after we have worked so hard not to be seen. Thankfully over time each of us finds US that deserves to be treated as we treat others.

I dont know the statics on butches who are abused however I know that men, whether bio or FtM, report less abuse then women. Mostly due to shame that is surrounding it. Most of the time it isnt even found out about till AFTER they have been killed by their partner. Most men and unfortunately believe that if they were to bring charges against the woman for being the abuser that no one would BELIEVE them.

I know that I have a lot of work left to do and I AM doing it. I know im worth more then I have ever been told by these ppl and one day I hope that I am able to have the healthy relationship that I WANT and DESERVE. I hope and pray this for every single person who is or has yet to be abused.

I know for me standing up, not letting ANYONE tell me what I can or cant do regarding my life is what I need to do to keep me safe.

There are resources out there. I have to say they are geared more towards women and really geared toward those with kids. Use them!!

I have had great friends thru the years that have helped me get out of these situations and I'm so thankful for that.

Ok stepping off my soap box

[Miss Scarlett]

As we all know, abuse isn’t always physical; it has many forms but is always about power and control.

Anyone can be the victim of abuse, whether it is in a romantic/dating relationship, in their family, at work, at school, or even in a friendship. I’ve been in at least one of the above and there are others here on the site who can say the same thing.

Discussion of the warning signs is important for those who may be in an abusive or controlling relationship. But it’s also important for their friends and families because being in such a situation often makes one entrenched to the point of blindness/acceptance.

People who are on the outside looking in, who have never been there themselves, often ask “If it’s so bad why you stay?” They tell us “Just leave.” Well meaning advice but easier said than done.

So why do we stay? It’s complicated. Some reasons: financial and/or physical obstacles; emotional fragility; neediness; desperation; denial; shame; guilt; fear of being alone; threats of physical harm to you, themselves, children, other family members, friends or pets and the fear they will be carried out; threats of “blackmail” – telling friends, family, employers certain things about you; destruction of your self-esteem; wishful thinking that it will get better or they didn’t mean it/couldn’t help it/not their fault/it must be me; and “Stockholm Syndrome” – the emotional bonding with an abuser.

We can become so emotionally invested that we feel we cannot just walk away and must to see it to the very end. There is fear of being perceived as a failure – unable to have or stay in a relationship.

Children – in my job many people I encounter stay in these relationships because of the children.

Finances; especially when the abuser controls the money.

Sex can play a big role. Shattered self-esteem can convince you that no one else wants you but this person does. Or they can use it as a weapon, threatening to tell others about your sex life.

Sympathy for the abuser can develop, especially if they’ve told you sad stories from their past. And while these stories might be true, they are no excuse for their behavior which, by the way, never changes for the better; at least not for long. There can be “honeymoon” phases where everything seems really good but invariably the cycle resumes and you’re back to walking on eggshells or worse.

Isolation from family and friends; abusers want you all to themselves. Remember, this is about power and control. Any positive, supportive outside influence is a threat to them. They will do everything possible to preserve this including having you break off communication with family and friends by convincing you that these people must be avoided because they are out to destroy your relationship. This helps to reinforce the idea that we will be unable to "survive" outside the relationship.

These aren’t the only reasons we stay but I feel they are the most common.

Speaking from personal experience, you cannot leave an abusive/controlling relationship until you are ready. You leave when you feel you are strong enough to leave and not return or you have had that “Aha moment.”

[StrongButch]

Great thread I am glad to see folks talking about this. It happens more often then people think and by people that no one suspects. Abusers make excuses for their behavior and can go years undetected. Thanks for this thread.

[Girl_On_Fire]

As we all know, abuse isn’t always physical; it has many forms but is always about power and control.

Anyone can be the victim of abuse, whether it is in a romantic/dating relationship, in their family, at work, at school, or even in a friendship. I’ve been in at least one of the above and there are others here on the site who can say the same thing.

Discussion of the warning signs is important for those who may be in an abusive or controlling relationship. But it’s also important for their friends and families because being in such a situation often makes one entrenched to the point of blindness/acceptance.

People who are on the outside looking in, who have never been there themselves, often ask “If it’s so bad why you stay?” They tell us “Just leave.” Well meaning advice but easier said than done.

So why do we stay? It’s complicated. Some reasons: financial and/or physical obstacles; emotional fragility; neediness; desperation; denial; shame; guilt; fear of being alone; threats of physical harm to you, themselves, children, other family members, friends or pets and the fear they will be carried out; threats of “blackmail” – telling friends, family, employers certain things about you; destruction of your self-esteem; wishful thinking that it will get better or they didn’t mean it/couldn’t help it/not their fault/it must be me; and “Stockholm Syndrome” – the emotional bonding with an abuser.

We can become so emotionally invested that we feel we cannot just walk away and must to see it to the very end. There is fear of being perceived as a failure – unable to have or stay in a relationship.

Children – in my job many people I encounter stay in these relationships because of the children.

Finances; especially when the abuser controls the money.

Sex can play a big role. Shattered self-esteem can convince you that no one else wants you but this person does. Or they can use it as a weapon, threatening to tell others about your sex life.

Sympathy for the abuser can develop, especially if they’ve told you sad stories from their past. And while these stories might be true, they are no excuse for their behavior which, by the way, never changes for the better; at least not for long. There can be “honeymoon” phases where everything seems really good but invariably the cycle resumes and you’re back to walking on eggshells or worse.

Isolation from family and friends; abusers want you all to themselves. Remember, this is about power and control. Any positive, supportive outside influence is a threat to them. They will do everything possible to preserve this including having you break off communication with family and friends by convincing you that these people must be avoided because they are out to destroy your relationship. This helps to reinforce the idea that we will be unable to "survive" outside the relationship.

These aren’t the only reasons we stay but I feel they are the most common.

Speaking from personal experience, you cannot leave an abusive/controlling relationship until you are ready. You leave when you feel you are strong enough to leave and not return or you have had that “Aha moment.”


Yes. Everything you just said here. Yes.

And what others have said about abusers having a talent for misdirection and being able to "hone in" on those who are naive, trusting, and inexperienced. It does help me to read these words as I'm sure it does others. I'm so glad this thread is moving in a positive, healing, educational direction. Thank you to everyone who helped me steer it that way. :)

I also want to add that it's important to talk about abuse against butches, male-identified butches, and transgender folks as this is often highly overlooked. It can be very difficult to get authorities and sometimes even friends and family to believe that the abuse is occurring in this way because of preconceived societal gender roles. I think this is especially true in the case of one partner (let's say the femme) is pushing every single solitary button on the other partner (let's say a trans guy) that when hy finally does explode and verbally defend hymself, hy's seen as or treated as the abuser.

Everybody has their breaking point and verbal abusers are very VERY adept at hitting long-buried triggers and making their targets speak or behave in ways completely out of character for them in a normal, healthy setting. It reminds me of a bully sitting in back of you in class and poking you with the lead of a pencil 20 times. When you finally turn around and blow up at them, you're the one sent to the principal's office. It's a truly sick 'talent'.

[WingsOnFire]

We can become so emotionally invested that we feel we cannot just walk away and must to see it to the very end.

Sympathy for the abuser can develop, especially if they’ve told you sad stories from their past. And while these stories might be true, they are no excuse for their behavior which, by the way, never changes for the better; at least not for long. There can be “honeymoon” phases where everything seems really good but invariably the cycle resumes and you’re back to walking on eggshells or worse.



both of these clips ring true for me and past abusive relationships. I tend to be a fixer. I get so emotionally wrapped up in the person that I struggle to walk away even when emotionally and sometimes physically unhealthy for me. I spent 10 years in an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship only to be left with the debt of a house that I am still affected by even though I foreclosed on it and walked away 2 years ago. That relationship affected me for atleast 8 years after and I still struggle because I don't value my self worth enough to not let it happen again.

I'm working through that and have had the benefits of two wonderful therapists in both Missouri and in Oregon. Therapy is important to work through what happened and get back on the right track. Unfortunately having only been in 5 relationships in 18 years I sometimes still forget to put myself first and value my self worth more than the other person.

Sometimes we meet people at the wrong point in our lives and no matter how hard we try it doesn't work out in the end.

I would like to also say that it is possible to be in an abusive relationship that is not necessarily with an abusive person but circumstances cause abusive behaviour. Either day it is not healthy.

[WingsOnFire]

We can become so emotionally invested that we feel we cannot just walk away and must to see it to the very end.

Sympathy for the abuser can develop, especially if they’ve told you sad stories from their past. And while these stories might be true, they are no excuse for their behavior which, by the way, never changes for the better; at least not for long. There can be “honeymoon” phases where everything seems really good but invariably the cycle resumes and you’re back to walking on eggshells or worse.



both of these clips ring true for me and past abusive relationships. I tend to be a fixer. I get so emotionally wrapped up in the person that I struggle to walk away even when emotionally and sometimes physically unhealthy for me. I spent 10 years in an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship only to be left with the debt of a house that I am still affected by even though I foreclosed on it and walked away 2 years ago. That relationship affected me for atleast 8 years after and I still struggle with valuing my self worth enough to not let it happen again.

I'm working through that and have had the benefits of two wonderful therapists in both Missouri and in Oregon. Therapy is important to work through what happened and get back on the right track. Unfortunately having only been in 5 relationships in 18 years I sometimes still forget to put myself first and value my self worth more than the other person.

Sometimes we meet people at the wrong point in our lives and no matter how hard we try it doesn't work out in the end.

I would like to also say that it is possible to be in an abusive relationship that is not necessarily with an abusive person but circumstances cause abusive behaviour. Either day it is not healthy.

[WingsOnFire]

We can become so emotionally invested that we feel we cannot just walk away and must to see it to the very end.

Sympathy for the abuser can develop, especially if they’ve told you sad stories from their past. And while these stories might be true, they are no excuse for their behavior which, by the way, never changes for the better; at least not for long. There can be “honeymoon” phases where everything seems really good but invariably the cycle resumes and you’re back to walking on eggshells or worse.



both of these clips ring true for me and past abusive relationships. I tend to be a fixer. I get so emotionally wrapped up in the person that I struggle to walk away even when emotionally and sometimes physically unhealthy for me. I spent 10 years in an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship only to be left with the debt of a house that I am still affected by even though I foreclosed on it and walked away 2 years ago. That relationship affected me for atleast 8 years after and I still struggle with valuing my own self worth in some situations even at work.

I'm working through that and have had the benefits of two wonderful therapists in both Missouri and in Oregon. Therapy is important to work through what happened and get back on the right track making sure not to fall back into the same unhealthy habits.

Sometimes we meet people at the wrong point in our lives and no matter how hard we try it doesn't work out in the end.

I would like to also say that it is possible to be in an abusive relationship that is not necessarily with an abusive person but circumstances cause abusive behaviour. Either day it is not healthy.

[CherylNYC]

I hope it isn't too far off topic for me to congratulate myself for recognising the warning signs and getting out of a recent emotionally abusive dating situation relatively quickly. While I wish I had gotten out even faster, I keep reminding myself that I haven't been nearly as savvy about reading the signs in the past. Had I met this abusive personality in the past I'm certain I would have stuck around a lot longer.

I only had one emotionally abusive adult relationship in my past. I was much younger then, and I stayed with her for eight years! When I look back at that situation, I have to admit that I knew it was wrong many years before I left. I stayed with her partly because I had never been in a committed partnership before, and I didn't want to have failed. Whenever I feel tempted to give myself a hard time for staying with someone who treated me badly I just say to myself the same thing that I say to my friends who have struggled to leave emotional abusers. "It must have felt like home." Yup. It sure did.

My most recent experience was an eye opener for me because I've never felt physically unsafe in a dating situation with a woman before. I feel as if I dodged a bullet by getting out quickly, but I have deep concerns for her new girlfriend!

[JustLovelyJenn]

When I opened this thread, I didn't expect it to hit me as hard as it did. I dealt with all of this a long time ago, and I am usually pretty good about taking a deep breath and moving forward...

... That being said...

... I was married to a very abusive person. He never hit me, never physically intimidated me in any way. In obvious ways he wasnt even really verbally abusive, we got in fights, but I was very good at yelling back. But he was extrememly emotionally abusive. I didn't see it at first, I didn't understand how much I was withdrawing, or how much I was affected. As I processed everything after the fact, I found things that I always thought I would see...


He was extremely determined to get things his way. He even asked me to marry him every day for a month before I agreed.

He was very quick to point out his needs and insist on having them filled.

Things I needed or wanted could be explained away, there wasnt enough time, or money, or whatever... it could wait for now.


These things were there very early on. Things I just said ok to. Compromised about, and they just continued to grow. Until I was isolated from friends, without general needs such as new underware or bras, or even clothes that fit. I didn't thnk they were important in the beginning. It was easy enough to just give in to those little demands.

Now, my ex is in a new relationship, with a new woman, who just had a baby... and I am seeing the same things begin to develop. I guess watching it happen again has made it all feel a little fresh in my mind.

[pajama]

Someone who cries victim a lot is sometimes the abuser. Huge Red Flag. The rest of the red flags, there's just so many that are so different.


I think that the most insidious form of abuse is the one that is not overt, because it is seldom recognized AS abuse while it is occurring. Emotional manipulation, threats of self-harm or suicide, the abuser claiming that they are being victimized or even claiming to suffer some form of abuse at the hands of the person they are abusing....these can often be overlooked as the truly abusive acts that they are...and can be more damaging because they are, at times, tolerated or excused for far longer than physical abuse would be.



He was extremely determined to get things his way. He even asked me to marry him every day for a month before I agreed.

He was very quick to point out his needs and insist on having them filled.

Things I needed or wanted could be explained away, there wasnt enough time, or money, or whatever... it could wait for now.




I came in here to read and learn. I have been blessed to never have been in an abusive relationship. In my 20s I would say I was the abuser, for the above reasons. Traits I learned from a lifetime of watching my aunt abuse my Mother and our family is such ways. I'm glad others on here were able to point out better than I, this form of manipulation and control IS ABUSE!

Peace to all of you and thank you for sharing your stories and insights.
A

[Teddybear]

I came in here to read and learn. I have been blessed to never have been in an abusive relationship. In my 20s I would say I was the abuser, for the above reasons. Traits I learned from a lifetime of watching my aunt abuse my Mother and our family is such ways. I'm glad others on here were able to point out better than I, this form of manipulation and control IS ABUSE!

Peace to all of you and thank you for sharing your stories and insights.
A

It takes a strong person to change these behaviours congrats for doing so

[WingsOnFire]

It takes a strong person to change these behaviours congrats for doing so

I wanted to commend you as well Pajama... It does take a strong person to first admit it and also to take the steps to fix it

[iamkeri1]

Abuse comes in many many forms. For me, the key sign was alcohol abuse. Not daily alcohol, I would not have put up with that, but the inability on my partner's part to stop drinking once started. The alcohol allowed her to move from verbal and emotional abuse into physical abuse.

One warning I will give others is that the physical abuse does not always start small and build up. For me it came down in a big way the very first time she laid a hand on me. We were cleaning our apartment after having moved into a larger place. We were really tired and were resting on a mattress on the floor, the only remaining furniture in the place. I don't remember the trigger at this point, but it was nothing much. The alcohol set her free to exercise her frustration by beating me up. She leapt on top off me, throwing me down half off the mattress with my head on the hardwood floor. She punched me in the face and shoulders and flung me around like a madwoman landing punches on my back as well. She grabbed my hair and started pounding my head into the floor, over and over again. I felt sure in that moment that she was going to kill me. The only thing that saved me was the telephone ringing. Somehow the ringing allowed her to realize what she was doing. She backed off me and answered the phone. It was my parents, god bless them. I was still laying on my back on the floor when she handed me the phone. They were coming from Ohio to visit me (in California) in two days. I did not tell them what they had interrupted, nor did I ask for their help. I was still bruised when they arrived, but like a typical abused woman I was embarrassed and did my best to cover it up. I know my mother saw the bruises on my shoulder, but somehow she kept quiet as well.

What was most stupid was that I stayed in that relationship for another six years. She quit drinking eventually (after an incident in which she put herself in great danger), and I threatened to tell her parents (whom I had spoiled with kindness, and whose love I had worked hard to earn) what she was doing to me. So the physical abuse stopped. The attempts to isolate, the put downs, the degradation, all continued.

Again I was saved, this time in a very ironic way. She saved me herself - by cheating on me over and over. Many nights she came home very late or not at all. This gave me time alone to think, and oddly enough, more time to spend with my friends, time to realize what an idiot I was.

It took a while, and there were many steps, but eventually I ended the relationship. Recovery was slow and overlapped with the time I entered into a new relationship with the person who would become the husband I speak of so lovingly, now passed. He gave me 25 years of love and support. He welcomed my family and friends, and was loved in return. I was lucky to have had all that time with him. He treated me with respect and valued me as a person.

I hope those of you who are still in abusive relationships are able to open your eyes to your own value, and that you can figure out a way to end the abuse.

Smooches,
Keri

[Sweet Bliss]

Keep in mind that there are many great resources available.

Here are some that helped me.

books:

The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense by Suzette Elgin

all her books are helpful

Controlling People by Patricia Evans

Her books are great.

ordering books online is great for those of us trapped at home. Provided you are able to access mailbox.

Some therapists are able to counsel over the phone.

Suicide hotlines are great resources for hooking up with local assistance.

Spiritual Teachers are available on youtube. Byron Katie has wonderful way of exposing our faulty thinking. She has website with videos etc.

Always treat yourself like the gift that you are intrinsically. You are the Love you seek.

[Soft*Silver]

I am going to premise what i am about to say with the following:
not every alcoholic/addict is abusive
not every abuser is an alcoholic/addict


but....

many situations/relationships that are abusive often have alcohol or other addictions within them.

I spoke at a convention and again at a professional workshop on alcohol involvement in DV relationships. Not only can it be with the abuser, but also with the victim.

I know personally, when i was engaged to a fella many many years ago, I stayed in that horribly abusive relationship because it was safer for me to deal with it, than to confront my sexuality. To cope with the violence, and the closet, I drank. It was perfectly accepted because it helped him with his addiction, which also fueled his anger issues. we were a dysfunctional symbiotic pair where you couldn't tell who was the host and who was the parasite because at different angles, it looked like the other was to blame.


It took everything in me to break it off with him, quit drinking and come out of the closet.

I was pretty healthy for a long time and then a few decades later, I decided to do the almost exact same thing all over again.

Flash ahead many years and lots of therapy and AA meetings... My DV issues and PTSD are checked, and My spirituality is in gear.

I work hard at myself. I learned the hard way, recovering from abuse doesnt end, even when you cant feel it anymore. If you dont work at it FOREVER, you repeat it.

[RockOn]

Soft*Silver,
Hooray for you for empowering yourself and getting you back. I loved reading your post where you stated you were able to turn it around. Back in the late 80s, turning that corner was the hardest thing I'd ever attempted in my life but after I put the beer down and got a good firm hold, all I could see was 6 lanes of wide open, clean freeway ahead. No more ruddy pig trails. Easy to get lost going down those paths and pretty scary sometimes too. I am talking about some of the people I came into contact with.

Yes, it takes a great deal of work untangling some of the totally wrecked emotions and nothing happened overnight but so worth all the work. I am far from perfect today and issues will always arise now and then but my life is a bazillion times better than before recovery.

Thanks a whole lot for sharing with us.
Best wishes :)

[Rockinonahigh]

I was married to my X for several years at this point he hadn't shown any kind of abuse,one day we were packing the trailer to go to a horse show when I didn't agree with something he said then out of the blue he threw a heavy glass mug at me.I got out of the way so he missed,he got even more mad and came after me wich was the wrong thing to do cause I stepped up and and popped him right in the mouth as hard as I could dropping him like an felled ox.He was drinking beer but wasn't drunk he only had a couple at that point,I took him to the doctor to see about the bloody nose he had cause he was bleeding pretty bad,turned out I broke his nose when I hit him defending myself.I told the doctor what happened,he reported it to the police.When they picked him up at the doctors' office he swore he didn't remember what happened , I filed charges cause I wasn't going to let him get away with it.The courts ended up calling it a domestic dispute so he got 90 days in the parish jail,while he was there he had to go through anger management (didn't do any good) by time he got out I already had divorce papers served to him.All I wanted was no contest just get the "F" out of my life no spousal support, just go.Fast forward a year,I had gone on one of my long horse show runs,when I came back my mother had moved him back into her home cause she felt sorry for him.this was a move she would be sorry for cause he did the same thing to her a few months later.This time my son was home on leave,I was changing clothes when he wen't nuts kicked moms bedroom door open then started on her screaming and hitting her(she was 70 at the time) It took both me and my son to get him off her wrestling him to the floor.Again he was
doing time but for a longer time of 5 years.When I finely got her to file charges and we both got an order of protection from the courts,mom didn't want to file charges cause she didn't want anyone to know what happened but finely she saw reason and did file charges.I know he got out on good behavior along with an early release program,I have no idea where he is and don't want to know...last I herd he moved out of state.good riddence is all I can say.

[LoyalWolfsBlade]

I have been in a couple of abusive relationships in my past. Relationships I do not usually talk about outside of the trauma work I have done on them.
I have also witnessed abuse by others and a lot of the warning signs mentioned can be applied across the board when it comes to DV; straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, ect ect men, women, MtF, FtM, ect ect even vanilla and BDSM folks dominant, submissive, ect ect ect each can be an abuser and/or victim.
One thing I always had to keep in mind was while there were warning signs that could be applied across the board there are some that are specific to that person whomever they are.
If you ever fear for your life in any way for any reason no matter who you are you are most likely in an abusive relationship. This was always the hardest warning sign for me to swallow and to acknowledge that I felt whenever I felt it in the past. A lot of that has to do with the myths mentioned in some earlier posts about male or masculine identities and what society and sometimes our own families can teach us about pride and self worth. I know for me as a FtM it was always hard if not impossible to admit when I was being abused especially if it involved physical abuse or I feared for my life. I always felt "less then" at these times which would be why reporting the abuse did not happen, seeking help in the DV community did not happen, and I think was the one thing that always played into the going back to them over and over even when I knew better.
Still though that is the one behavior of mine that I will never understand no matter how much therapy I have around the trauma why did I always go back over and over even times asking them back hell begging them to come back. It is a red flag or for me it is especially when added to the other ones mentioned.
My biggest advice is listen to the people that know you and better yet if you are in therapy listen to your therapist if they suggest you examine something...examine it.
Also for the guys out there she doesn't have to hit you for you to fear for your life.
Kuddos to everyone that has posted either about recognizing their warning signs or changing their behavior. Both are big...

[*Anya*]

Rockin' I am so glad that neither you or your mom were seriously hurt, or with permanent physical injuries. I can't imagine the emotional cost of the experience for either of you.

There is the peculiar phenomenon of some parents/family not believing the abused woman, or even worse, continuing to have a relationship with the abuser; after we, the abused, finally get out from the physical, verbal or emotional abuse.

My parents just refused to believe that the polite, handsome young man who was my husband, would ever hit me. On one hand, there was the refusal to support me emotionally, in any way and on the other, they would even invite him over for dinner or parties but not me.

That was one of the hardest things to take.

My father would say to me: "You are pretty mouthy and probably talked back to him, we had the same problem with you".

The final, painful, but very clear message message was:

He didn't think my ex was an abuser but... if he did: I probably deserved it.

[Rockinonahigh]

Rockin' I am so glad that neither you or your mom were seriously hurt, or with permanent physical injuries. I can't imagine the emotional cost of the experience for either of you.

There is the peculiar phenomenon of some parents/family not believing the abused woman, or even worse, continuing to have a relationship with the abuser; after we, the abused, finally get out from the physical, verbal or emotional abuse.

My parents just refused to believe that the polite, handsome young man who was my husband, would ever hit me. On one hand, there was the refusal to support me emotionally, in any way and on the other, they would even invite him over for dinner or parties but not me.

That was one of the hardest things to take.

My father would say to me: "You are pretty mouthy and probably talked back to him, we had the same problem with you".

The final, painful, but very clear message message was:

He didn't think my ex was an abuser but... if he did: I probably deserved it.


What surprises me is that mom just wouldn't press charges at first,she had always been one of the most possitive women I knew,for he to just say "let it be" was so off the wall I was taken by surprise.One of my aunts said in it was common for men to rule over women in her generation that it was a common for this to happen in families for this to happen,I never could understand it.
My X should have known better to have started on me with his crap knowing I would not just take it then walk away,come to find out his father did the same thing to his wife and kids.What I just don't get was they thought the guy hung the moon no matter what he did.I told my X very early on if he ever laid a hand on me in anger he was a dead man cause I would fight him till my last breath,I don't start fights but if people insist in this I sure will finish it defending myself.Another thing I know is it has only been somewhat recent that a woman could defend her self against abuse or end up killing someone in self defence with out ending up in jail,i'm glad things are difrent now.

[Soft*Silver]

boy, did I feel a gut reaction reading Anya's father's words..."You are pretty mouthy and probably talked back to him, we had the same problem with you".

I cant tell you how many times I have heard those words. Yes, I am a fiesty wild mouth bitch if you get my dander up...but nothing deserves a slap in the face, a shove, a fist, a hair pulling, a pummeling. You dont like what I say? FUCKING WALK AWAY OR LEAVE.

Saying it, is far more easier than doing it. The relationship is based on dysfunction so doing something smart or self preserving, well, probably wont happen alot..not until you really do walk away.

[Soft*Silver]

you asked for signs...

a remarkable sign that most people miss, or disregard, is their account of their exes. If every ex did him/her wrong (I am going to use the pronoun HE for the abuser from this point on...but as was already said, SHE can be the abuser as well), was a dog; screwed everyone; ran to someone else; didnt take care of the house, the kids; was mouthy and disrespected him in front of his family and friends; etc....if the exes were ALWAYS the problem, we have transference going on here.

There is relatively new theory of transference called AMT...Abusive Multiple Transference, where the abuser not only transfer negative feelings of their abuser to their victims, but also transfers the power and dominance of their own abuser to themselves.*

In simple-ese?
... if the abuser felt they were always shit on, they will always believe they will get shit on, and they themselves will also always shit on others....


(*I found a really good explaination of transference and projection that relates it to domestic violence! http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_transference_and_projection#slide72)

[Bard]

when I was young and in my fist lesbian relationship it was abusive not at first but when she drank well it got bad started when she thought I was cheating on her she punched me in the nose breaking it then slammed me on the ground stomping on my hand saying she would be sure I never touched another woman. eventually I caught her her cheating and a fight ensued with me and the other girl to separate us Trish kicked me in the temple as we wrestled on the ground I have been told my eyes rolled back in my head. but we got back together a few months later we were back together for 2 weeks when she came to pick me up after work and she had been drinking I tried to take the keys but all the while I was thinking she is going to brake my nose again long story short I did not get in the car with her that night and she ended up getting into a accident and dieing I swore no one would ever hit me again I had enough of that as a child it took me a long time to not feel guilty that perhaps I caused her anger I had to see that I was worth being loved for me and that not everyone was going to leave me when I made ME whole I found my love and was able to say .. it was NOT my fault .. yes I have a temper yes I am a mouthy ass but I deserve to be treated well and to be loved loved like I am with desd

[Words]

If every ex did him/her wrong (I am going to use the pronoun HE for the abuser from this point on...but as was already said, SHE can be the abuser as well),

Sorry, but I have a bit of an issue with this. Why use 'he'? Given that this is a queer website and that the majority of the members here identify as women, wouldn't 'she' be more appropriate (or, better still, the non-gender specific 'they')?

I appreciate that this probably wasn't your intention, but it just feels to me like men, butches, and FtMs always get a bid of a raw deal when it comes to the language we default to when discussing abuse.

Words

[The_Lady_Snow]

AABL: Advocates for Abused and Battered Lesbians: An excellent resource for battered lesbians.


Equality Colorado: Advocacy services available 24 hours a day for GLBT victims of crime: hate
crimes, domestic violence, sexual assault,and random violence


Rainbow Coalition Against DomesticViolence: Describes the dynamics of domestic violence, and includes the power and control wheel for same-sex couples.


Community United Against Violence Same Sex DV Bibliography: A list of recommended reading regarding same-sex domestic violence.


Annual Report on Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered Domestic Violence: A report from the Department of Justice regarding same-sex domestic violence.


Domestic Violence in Lesbian Relationships: A page devoted to lesbian victims of domestic violence.


Gay Men's Domestic Violence Project: Providing community education and direct services to gay,
bisexual, and transgendered male victims and survivors of domestic violence.


LAMBDA Gay & Lesbian Anti-Violence Project: : Lambda's pages about same-sex domestic violence.


What Recovering Batterers Want You To Know About Abuse and Violence: Good information about their behavior from recovering batterers.


Wolf-Island: A Magical and Protected Place: Support for gay male victims of domestic violence. Includes poetry, music, bibliography, personal stories and links.


DOVES: Gay and Lesbian Battering: Services for same sex victims of domestic violence. Shelter, counseling, support and legal assistance. Spanish speaking staff available.

[girl_dee]

Warning signs, Red flags etc....

Take note on how the person has behaved with past relationships. Even more, watch how they handled the break up.

Abuse can happen even after the break up. Don't think for a second that they won't do the same to you.

[Ginger]

I was in a big hurry to leave my parents' house and married as a teenager to a young man with a huge collection of exotic reptiles, including venomous snakes. He put a cobra on the couch next to me once, and it reared up while I sat absolutely still, and then he free-handed it and put it back in its cage, to give one example. I left suddenly and with only the clothes on my back and made my way, having done well in school no matter what was going on or how many minimum wage jobs I was holding down. I was having my period when I left, and he wouldn't let me take my purse or any pads, and I walked down the highway bleeding through my pants, and felt totally energized and unafraid. He also hit me a lot, but I always fought back. I do that, fight back, until I suddenly leave and don't look back.

I've had some very kind, very generous and good-hearted partners since then, but I've also had a couple bad eggs in the bunch, like everyone else. My downfall is that I wait too long to leave a bad relationship. I don't stay in a bad relationship and let the person grind me down; I stay in the bad relationship and try to use my unrelenting logic and reason to fix us, and then I suddenly leave, having sustained and caused more damage than was necessary. It's such a relief to be alone now.

[Katniss]

I've been fortunate to have never been involved in an abusive or violent relationship (manipulative/mean/batsh*tcrazy mothers are a different matter.) I did volunteer for many years at an emergency shelter for battered women and children and much of the advice above is spot on. Two things I do want to stress;

1. If you are coming to harm in any way reach out to someone. Many towns have shelters that are not advertised and you would never know they existed. A phone call to a hot line and they can arrange a safe place for you and any minor children. I can't speak for all shelters but many may also have resources you are unaware of including being able to fill prescription drugs. Some abusers hold on to the victim's medication/inhaler/insulin as a form of control. No one is there to judge and help is available but you have to make that call. Which brings me to...

2. The most powerful weapon you can give your abuser is silence. They are banking on your fear/shame/guilt/whatever to keep you quiet. Don't give them that weapon. There was one client I remember who had a warrant out for her arrest, something small and I think it was "theft by taking." She was so afraid of being turned in that she stayed with an extremely abusive partner for three years. She finally showed up at the shelter and explained after a particularly bad scenario she confided to a friend who told her "I had rather go to trial with a fair judge, do my time and have a release date than serve a life sentence with an abuser." If people don't know, they can't help you, so use your voice.


I realize the OP wanted warning signs so I will re-iterate the litmus test for me....when someone swoops in and wants to "rescue" you...from poverty/a previous bad relationship/ill health/depression/etc. and they are almost more invested in the trials of your life than you are and they take charge of your finances/healthcare/therapy/whatever, and they push you to commit to them sooner than you want...they will indeed rescue you, from everyone but themselves.

Katniss~~

[Sweet Bliss]

Katniss you are a freaking genius. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

holey socks. :hangloose:

[Girl_On_Fire]

Thank you for the list of awesome resources, The_Lady_Snow. It's appreciated.

One of things that I have learned from abusive relationships is this:

Abusers will attack their targets but the most skilled abuser will convince their targets to attack themselves. Like a carnivore smells prey, the experienced abuser will be able to "sniff out" your greatest weaknesses, insecurities, and doubts and use them against you. It's terrifying and degrading and take years to fully sort out and recover from because for so long, there are no clear-cut lines. Your partner isn't coming home and beating you senseless while you cower in a corner. He (or she) is systematically breaking you down until you eventually don't even know which end is up or what is appropriate anymore. It's a very emotionally scarring experience.

I appreciate all of the warning signs being posted here. I think the key in all of this is that most (not all) but most people who miss what would be considered warning signs come from some sort of abuse or neglect as a child. I honestly believe most people who grew up in loving, healthy, nurturing homes will be able to spot these signs much more quickly than someone who grew up in an abusive home because it will look alien, dangerous, and foreign. And also, most serial abusers are drawn to this type of person because they give off a certain 'vibe' that says they may make an easy/unsuspecting target.

If you've ever asked yourself, "Do I have a sign that says, Abusers Apply Here"? Yes, you do. I've been reading a fascinating book called "The Wisdom of Psychopaths" which delves into the minds of people who have been diagnosed as psychopathic. When tested by being asked to watch say, a dozen different people walk by them, were able to easily pick out someone who was once victimized by a mugging or other attack in their past. It was in their body language and something they just couldn't hide.

Do people who have never been abused still become the targets of abusers? Yes, absolutely but I think it's a bit easier for someone who has already been "softened up" so-to-speak to make an ideal target.

I think that one of the best ways to break the pattern of continually being drawn to or attracting abusers is to learn the true meaning of healthy behavior. It's important to surround yourself with friends and family who respect you and treat you in a healthy, supportive, nurturing way. The more healthy platonic behavior you're exposed to, the more confidence you build up, and the more likely you are to attract this same healthiness in a romantic partnership.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I've been in a few.

But the thing that stands out the most for me is, well, me.

I am so willing to please my partner and my self esteem rests on ensuring that I make them really see how much they want me or need me so they won't leave. This gives controlling people the idea they can become more controlling in order to fix my life and sort me out.

Because most abusers don't really know they are abusive. And their intention is to control and fix and keep things low anxiety for themselves. And try to have others behave in the way they think is proper, right and for the best.

People who push me to act like a lady (their version) by slowly devaluing my own form of morals. This can't happen without my agreement though. I have to devalue my own opinion in favour of theirs.

They don't like my friends. They tell me why my friends are really bad for me and the manipulative things/wrong/unhealthy things my friends do. I slowly choose to stop seeing my friends. I get praise the more I do this.

They believe do it out of love, support and because they know best and just want to care for me and ensure I do the right things.

They start to suggest how I should interact with my mom and dad.

They tell me the best times I should study even though they have never been to uni.

I start to lose it during arguments because they are not making sense and confusing me. I feel when I'm arguing with them, there is no right answer and I feel trapped. I can't move in the discussion. So I shut up. I say nothing.

Slowly I start to get anxious about doing things just so. She used to be so appreciative and I really want praise from her again. If it do this perfectly, then she'll notice...

I start to crave the absent praise I start going way over my own boundaries and doing things like screwing over other relationships or work.

She starts accusing me of strange things that don't make sense. I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding. And I try to clear it up but it happens again. That weird stuck.... Can't say anything right without insulting her or being accused of something else. I'm just not explaining myself properly...

This shit happens. It's happened to me a few times. But it was also very much about me and my lack of trust in myself, my lack of self esteem, my need to have praise, to be with someone I really admire and want praise from, rather than real intimacy.

I slipped and did it again when I wasn't well after my ex wife left. I can have empathy for myself when I did that. I just wanted to feel valuable again after being left and I fell into very old habits. I wanted to be needed and praised.

I've now not seen anyone seriously for almost a year. I haven't dated in six months. I am taking time to really notice what I want to change about my fears. I'm actually totally fine on my own and I can get praise from school and friends and feeling good about what I do - praise from me to me.

I have stopped trying to impress someone. Or anyone. It's hard. But in doing so I have turned down two people that would have fallen into old patters of me care taking and pleasing. I have a sense of peace, just for me.

And if I do ever get involved again, I want someone a bit more sorted out, someone emotionally stable and someone who likes me to be independant, but knows I can be much different in bed ;)

A friend again. I won't date people again. I'll be friends though. And the trust and sexual compatibility test drives will cme from that.

[Soft*Silver]

I really love this thread and am finding some very sage folks in here. I am impressed with how careful everyone is with not putting anyone on the defense. In a room full of people who might have been victims themselves, and while talking about abuse, the last thing a sensitive non abusive non threatening person would want to do, would discredit something someone said, pick apart someone's words or make them feel small for something they said...

[Words]

Passive aggressiveness. HUGE red flag (for me), reason being that a person who constantly resorts to passive aggressiveness is likely to have problems with owning their own shit, preferring instead to stick it on to others and force them to do all the work whilst considering themselves exempt.

Words

[Soft*Silver]

ok, words, I TRIED to be TACTFUL but if you read it as PA, then oh well. Are you REALLY starting a war with me in a thread about abuse? Over gender issues? Seriously?

Rather than fight with you, I will leave this thread. I came here to talk about abuse, not get triggered nor abused.

So, you win..ok? Enjoy the thread and make sure everyone else uses the right pronouns..wouldnt want anyone to make YOU feel uncomfortable...

Passive aggressiveness. HUGE red flag (for me), reason being that a person who constantly resorts to passive aggressiveness is likely to have problems with owning their own shit, preferring instead to stick it on to others and force them to do all the work whilst considering themselves exempt.

Words

[Nic]

you asked for signs...

a remarkable sign that most people miss, or disregard, is their account of their exes. If every ex did him/her wrong (I am going to use the pronoun HE for the abuser from this point on...but as was already said, SHE can be the abuser as well), was a dog; screwed everyone; ran to someone else; didnt take care of the house, the kids; was mouthy and disrespected him in front of his family and friends; etc....if the exes were ALWAYS the problem, we have transference going on here.

There is relatively new theory of transference called AMT...Abusive Multiple Transference, where the abuser not only transfer negative feelings of their abuser to their victims, but also transfers the power and dominance of their own abuser to themselves.*

In simple-ese?
... if the abuser felt they were always shit on, they will always believe they will get shit on, and they themselves will also always shit on others....


(*I found a really good explaination of transference and projection that relates it to domestic violence! http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_transference_and_projection#slide72)

Been doing a lot of self education recently. Can't tell you how many times I've heard this in the last few months. Every group of survivors I meet has had to do battle with an ex who spouted the "She/he done me wrong" and "I was so misunderstood" story. There are a lot of people who tell that story but they seem to fall into a couple of predictable categories: folks who are really wounded and can't seem to move on from that pain and folks who need you to see them as worthy of sympathy in order to gain access to you.

I'm in no way blaming people for being victims of emotional or physical violence but there's another distinction that needs to be made here. A couple of others have touched on it. Just want to suss it out a bit more and say that one of the things that strikes me as insidious in the abuse/abuser/onlooker triangle is the expectation (by onlookers) that abuse victims never engage in any passive aggressive or manipulative behavior in order to be deserving of support from outside the abusive relationship. That holier than thou POV penalizes the abused person and generally works to the abuser's advantage. It's as if the victims are required to show twice as much restraint or have double the healthy, emotional outlook when compared to their abuser or anyone else for that matter. Example: it's not uncommon for folks who are being or have been abused to be passive aggressive or manipulative because they have no relationship with having their needs met any other way. Constantly being belittled and shamed somehow will make a person stop (or never start) asking for what they need in a straightforward way. If you're taught that your voice doesn't matter or your needs don't mean anything you're eventually going stop walking the healthy line from A to B and use more circuitous route to get your needs seen to. Inevitably an onlooker sees that behavior and wrongly attributes negative intention to it rather than labeling it the survival behavior that it is. Suddenly it's the abused person who's the "bad" one in the relationship and the abuser starts to benefit from that opinion, even counts on it to reinforce the idea that they're working hard and just trying their best to keep things together under the "burden" of their victim's passive aggressive behavior. You see evidence that it works in the sympathy they gain from friends and family members. Even more powerful than what they gain from others is the way they can use the victim's survivor dysfunction against them to further undermine that person's self esteem and create more self doubt. The victim gets cast in the "emotionally unstable" role making the abuser the one who's "worthy" of sympathy from onlookers and even from the victim him/herself! Of course the abuser has temper outbursts! Just look at what the poor guy/gal has to deal with! Pretty neat trick.

We participate in reinforcing the facade of abusers if we spend any time shaking our heads at victims who "dare" to choose anything but completely straightforward, healthy, well adjusted, even tempered behavior in order to get their needs met or the work of a relationship done. We add insult to injury by shaking our heads over them when we discover that they didn't leave at the very first sign of abuse. We pretty much demand that they be better than the abuser and, sometimes, better than we are ourselves. Everyone is passive aggressive or manipulative at one time or another. Difference between abusive behavior and survivor behavior is how and why manipulation is used. Tactics that undermine another person's sense of self or self respect falls into the abuse category to me.

Sorry, but I have a bit of an issue with this. Why use 'he'? Given that this is a queer website and that the majority of the members here identify as women, wouldn't 'she' be more appropriate (or, better still, the non-gender specific 'they')?

I appreciate that this probably wasn't your intention, but it just feels to me like men, butches, and FtMs always get a bid of a raw deal when it comes to the language we default to when discussing abuse.

Words

Fairly said. Growing up in Panama reinforced my cultural and emotional attachment to "abuser" = "male" despite knowing that there certainly are female abusers. For ease, I understand a person's decision to declare the use of a pronoun for time saving sake but in the case of such a sensitive issue maybe we need to go ahead and take the time to type out the extra pronoun. I'll keep that in mind myself.

The more healthy platonic behavior you're exposed to, the more confidence you build up, and the more likely you are to attract this same healthiness in a romantic partnership.

To bad we don't culturally value platonic relationships the way we do partnered ones. Hardly ever see a Disney movie about friendship being given a higher position on the value scale than partnered relationships. (Thinking mostly "classics" here because I'm old. Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Lady and the Tramp, Aristocats, Aladdin, Little Mermaid, etc.) Usually the main character (usually female) must somehow be rescued by someone in order for the story to progress. Even when a strong female character is sketched out she somehow has to be saved by someone else eventually.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Lesbian Partner Violence Fact Sheet

Suzana Rose, Ph.D.
National Violence Against Women Prevention Research Center
University of Missouri at St. Louis

What is lesbian partner violence?

Partner violence in lesbian (and gay) relationships recently has been identified as an important social problem. Partner or domestic violence among lesbians has been defined as including physical, sexual and psychological abuse, although researchers have most often studied physical violence.

How common is lesbian partner violence?

About 17-45% of lesbians report having been the victim of a least one act of physical violence perpetrated by a lesbian partner (1,5,6,13). Types of physical abuse named by more than 10% of participants in one study included:

Disrupting other’s eating or sleeping habits

Pushing or shoving, driving recklessly to punish, and slapping, kicking, hitting, or biting (11).

Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians (12).

Psychological abuse has been reported as occurring at least one time by 24% to 90% of lesbians (1,5,6,11,14).

The research usually has been done with mostly white, middle-class lesbians who are sufficiently open about their sexual orientation to have met researchers seeking participants in the lesbian community. Subsequently, these findings may not apply to women who are less open, less educated, or of other ethnic backgrounds. [/CENTER]


Why would a lesbian batter another woman?

Lesbians who abuse another women may do so for reasons similar to those that motivate heterosexual male batterers. Lesbians abuse their partners to gain and maintain control . Lesbian batterers are motivated to avoid feelings of loss and abandonment. Therefore, many violent incidents occur during threatened separations. Many lesbian batterers grew up in violent households and were physically, sexually, or verbally abused and/or witnessed their mothers being abused by fathers or stepfathers.

How is lesbian partner violence different from heterosexual partner violence?

There are several similarities between lesbian and heterosexual partner violence. Violence appears to be about as common among lesbian couples as among heterosexual couples. In addition, the cycle of violence occurs in both types of relationships. However, there also are several differences.

In lesbian relationships, the "butch" (physically stronger, more masculine or wage-earning) member of the couple may be as likely to be the victim as the batterer, whereas in heterosexual relationships, the male partner (usually the stronger, more masculine, and wage-earning member) is most often the batterer. Some lesbians in abusive relationships report fighting back in their relationship.

In addition, a unique element for lesbians is the homophobic environment that surrounds them . This enables the abusive partner to exert "heterosexist control" over the victim by threatening to "out" the victim to friends, family, or employer or threatening to make reports to authorities that would jeopardize child custody, immigration, or legal status. The homophobic environment also makes it difficult for the victim to seek help from the police, victim service agencies, and battered women's shelters.


What legal rights do battered lesbians have?

In some states, police are required to treat cases of lesbian domestic violence the same way as they do heterosexual domestic violence. Many states have mandatory arrest laws that require the police to arrest the batterer in certain situations; this applies to lesbian and heterosexual batterers alike. Batterers can be prosecuted in a criminal court. Survivors may be entitled to an order of protection, a court order that prohibits a batterer from talking to or approaching the victim.

Same-sex couples are always excluded from obtaining a protective order in seven states (Arizona, Delaware, Louisiana, Montana, New York, South Carolina, and Virginia) and often excluded in three states (Florida, Maryland, and Mississippi). These states either limit protective orders to opposite-sex couples or usually interpret the law to apply only to opposite-sex couples.

How often is lesbian partner violence reported to the police?

There are significant barriers to lesbians seeking help. Lesbian victims seldom report violent incidents to the police because many fear prejudicial treatment, and many state domestic violence laws fail to protect same-sex partners. Also, in cases of same-sex violence, police often assume the abuse is mutual (or believe an abuser’s claim that the abuse is mutual) and are more likely to arrest both members of the couple. Battered women’s agencies also may not be open to serving lesbians.

How can you help a lesbian who is the victim of partner violence?

To support a lesbian who is the target of partner violence:
Let her know that she can call you for help. Help her develop a safety plan concerning how she will get out if she needs to leave quickly, including having a bag prepared and easily accessible with essential documents (including identification, money, and anything else that might be needed), and arranging a place to stay in an emergency. Give her the keys to your house. Don’t give up and don’t criticize her or turn her away because she doesn’t leave right away.

If you are in a city that has an Anti-Violence Project connected to the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs (http://www.avp.org), tell her about the services of your local AVP. Many AVPs provide counseling, advocacy with the police and criminal justice system and support groups. Some therapists specialize in lesbian partner abuse, as well.


>sources< (Sources:
1. Burke, Leslie K., & Follingstad, Diane R. (1999). Violence in lesbian and gay relationships: theory, prevalence, and correlational factors. Clinical Psychology Review, 19 (5), 487-512.

2. Heer, Christine, Grogan, Eileen, Clark, Sandra, & Carson, Lynda M. (1998). Developing services for lesbians in abusive relationships: A macro and micro approach. In A. R. Roberts (Ed.), Battered women and their families: Intervention, strategies, and treatment programs (pp. 365-384). New York: Springer Publishing Company, Inc.

3. Istar, Arlene. (1996). Couple assessment: Identifying and intervening in domestic violence in lesbian relationships. Journal of Gay and Lesbian Social Services, 4 (1), 93-106.

4. Leeder, Elaine. (1994). Treatment of battering in couples: Heterosexual, lesbian, and gay. In Elaine Leeder, Treating abuse in families: A feminist and community approach. New York: Springer Publishing Co.

5. Lie, Gwat-Yong, & Gentlewarrier, Sabrina. (1991). Intimate violence in lesbian relationships: Discussion of survey findings and practice implications. Journal of Social Service Research, 15 (1/2), 41-59.

6. Lie, Gwat-Yong, Schilit, Rebecca, Bush, Judy, Montagne, Marilyn, & Reyes, Lynn. Lesbians in currently aggressive relationships: How frequently do they report aggressive past relationships? Violence and Victims, 6, (2), 121-135.

7. Margolies, Liz, & Leeder, Elaine. (1995). Violence at the door: Treatment of lesbian batterers. Violence against Women, 1 (2), 139-157.

8. Marrujo, Becky, & Keger, Mary. (1995). Definition of roles in abusive lesbian relationships. In Claire M. Renzetti & Charles H. Miley (Eds.), Violence in gay and lesbian domestic partnerships (pp. 23-33). New York: Harrington Park Press.

9. National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs (http://www.avp.org). (1999). Lesbian, gay, transgender and bisexual domestic violence in 1998. New York: NCAVP. (See also 1997 and 1998 reports for information on state laws concerning same-sex domestic violence.)

10. Ristock, Janice L. (1997). The cultural politics of abuse in lesbian relationships: Challenges for community action. In N. V. Benodraitis (Ed.), Subtle sexism: Current practice and prospects for change (pp. 279-296). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage.

11. Scherzer, Teresa. (1998). Domestic violence in lesbian relationships: Findings of the lesbian relationships research project. Journal of Lesbian Studies, 2 (1), 29-47.

12. Waldner-Haugrud, Lisa K., & Vaden Gratch, Linda. (1997). Sexual coercion in gay/lesbian relationships: Descriptives and gender differences. Violence and Victims, 12 (1), 87-98.

13. Waldner-Haugrud, Lisa K., Vaden Gratch, Linda, & Magruder, Brian. (1997). Victimization and perpetration rates of violence in gay and lesbian relationships: Gender issues explored. Violence and Victims, 12 (2), 173-184.

14. West, Carolyn M. (1998). Leaving a second closet: Outing partner violence in same-sex couples. In Jana L. Jasinski & Linda M. Williams (Eds.), Partner violence: A comprehensive review of 20 years of research (pp. 163-183). Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications.)

[Medusa]

ok, words, I TRIED to be TACTFUL but if you read it as PA, then oh well. Are you REALLY starting a war with me in a thread about abuse? Over gender issues? Seriously?

Rather than fight with you, I will leave this thread. I came here to talk about abuse, not get triggered nor abused.

So, you win..ok? Enjoy the thread and make sure everyone else uses the right pronouns..wouldnt want anyone to make YOU feel uncomfortable...


SoftSilver-

Your post was reported for drama, rudeness, and Golden Flounce. Please DO NOT engage with other members in this way.

You have the opportunity to report a post that you find offensive and let the Moderators handle it but it is never acceptable to resort to this type of posting when you are frustrated.

Take a few days away from this thread if you need to and put members on ignore who irritate you but leave the drama and ugly posting off of the threads.

Thanks,
Medusa

[The_Lady_Snow]

Heterosexism, homophobia and transphobia are likely to be the primary social oppressions faced by white lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) victims;these interact with racism to complicate the situation for victims of color. LGBT people may encounter homophobia/transphobia in situations that are supposed to be safe for people of color and, racism in places that are supposed to be safe for LGBT people.

Triple Jeopardy

LGBT victims of color encounter a kind of triple-jeopardy:

RACISM among DV advocates and in LGBT community

HETEROSEXISM in community of color

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE involving additional abusive tactics

Racism among service providers and authorities
LGBT survivors of color are usually not in policiy-making or leadership positions
in DV service agencies, so advocates may not consider their perspectivies, or may not be aware of, important parts of their experience, including:

--Their experience of encountering helpers (even in shelters or support groups that are promoted as safe for victims) and authorities who make stereotypical assumptions:

That the partner of color in a racially mixed relationship is likely to be the abuser

That People of Color are more aggressive and more likely to fight back than white victims (making it particularly unlikely that authorities will recognize the fact that they are being abused

--The reluctance of victims of color to report their partners to the criminal justice system, because:

Police and courts respond more strongly to violence by
people of color than to violence against them

They don't want their partner to be exposed to racist attacks in jail (and abusers may use this to keep their partners from calling the police

--The conflicting loyalties that can trap LGBT victims of color in relationships with abusers:

For instance,"...many lesbians of color who are experiencing relationship violence express a need to protect both their communities and themselves from the retaliation of the dominant White and heterosexual society that would use lesbian battering to further stigmatize and oppress them"

The need to protect their community of color can affect an LGBT victim of color's choices about whether to seek services

Racism in LGBT Communities
Primarily White LGBT agencies may view the concerns of people of color as divisionary or irrelevant to LGBT work, leading people of color to feel excluded from LGBT spaces and organizations. Again, they may not be included in policy-making and leadership positions. LGBT victims of color may feel pressure to "choose" which identity is most central to them (either you're black/latina/asian/Puerto Rican or you're gay).

Homophobia and transphobia in communities of color
Some communities of color may not want to recognize that LGBT people of color exist, much less affirm them. They may try to "protect themselves from further racist attack by dissociating themselves from 'social deviants'[LGBT people] that not even White people want in the midst." Communities of color may see LGBT people of color as betraying their community by choosing to live their sexual identity rather than perpetuate the community by marrying and having children. (This is an example of how a stereotype of LGBT people--that they don't have children--interacts with racism, which makes the community feel that its existence is threatened).

Race related tactics

-Using racial epithets & negative racial stereotypes

-Using partner's reluctance to involve police and knowledge of history of police abuse of people of color to discourage them from seeking help

Victim is a person of color

The abuser my battery by:

Using white or light skin privilege.

Using master/slave S/M scenes.

Exploiting partner's internalized racism.

Outing or threatening to out partner to family, or others in community of
color.



Abuser if person of color
If the victim is white, the abuser may batter by:

Blaming own abusiveness on partner's use of white privilege.

Dismissing partner's objection to violence as white uptightness.

Labeling partner as racist for accusing them of abuse.

Excusing own abusiveness as "culturally appropriate" communication or
behavior.

Insisting that abuser would be subjected to racist responses if partner
sought help. (For instance, telling them that their calling the police would
expose partner to racist attacks in jail.)



Difficulty finding help
Victims and perpetrators do encounter racist responses from helpers and authorities; the knowledge that this may happen can also be used by abusers to confuse and immobilize their partners. Victims of color frequently encounter service providers and authorities who:

Are both racist and homophobic/transphobic.

Believe that it's normal for people of color to live with abuse.

Are not sensitive to DV, and racism, and homophobia and transphobia.

Have a history of hostile response to both LGBT people and people of color (
treating victims as perpetrators, seeing violence as mutual, etc.)

Locate services only in white communities.

Apply a one-size-fits-all approach to domestic violence.





























>source< (http://wcadv.org/sites/default/files/resources/DV%20against%20LGBT%20People%20of%20Color_0.pdf)

[Rockinonahigh]

We have spoken about spousal abuse and family abuse,but there is another kind that so often we may not see till we finely beleve it's happening.It comes from the people we keep in our friendship circle,it happends in small amounts when someone starts to nit pick about one thing or the other so we give them the benefit of doubt cause they may be having a bad day for whatever reason so it may not be so noticeable till it raises it's ugly head.I have had to drop people out of my circle of friends because of the icky feeling and down right being tired of the attitude that is causing the problem.At the moment I have a so called friend who is carying a big grudge over something that could have been avoided if she had included the whole team in the trip planing for us to to to Vegas for the nationals pool championships.So far the effects of what she did has been far reaching because of her actions.Being around her has become toxic so many of us on the teams have either droped her from the team list or left the teams we all have played on with her,she is also talking smack about every one who she thinks have done her wrong when no one has done a thing but get away from the trouble then move on.Personaly I will be so glad to not have to deal with her nasty comments plus bad behavior.Yes,I have spoken to her about this with no good out come.

[TruTexan]

What I want to say is this........ I hope no one else ever gets accused of being the abuser when they are the victim. It can cost you greatly....emotionally, mentally, physically and financially and socially. It's a fucked up thing to happen to anyone. And it can silence you as well, as it's silenced me until today.

[Rockinonahigh]

TruTexan,my friend I am proud of you as well as anyone who is no longer silent,the abuser shouldn't ever get away with what they have done,silence is the way they can keep doing the dastardly deed's they do...It'also a way for use to heal by voicing what they did.

[Teddybear]

What I want to say is this........ I hope no one else ever gets accused of being the abuser when they are the victim. It can cost you greatly....emotionally, mentally, physically and financially and socially. It's a fucked up thing to happen to anyone. And it can silence you as well, as it's silenced me until today.

This is a form of abuse. I know where the abuser to have power over their victim. It can ruin a persons reputation, their livelihood and cause a boat load of problems for them.

Its hard when ur the victim and the abuser keeps threatening to cause problems for you by reporting falsley to the police or to other ppl that you they are the victim when in fact they are the abuser.

They is also the fact where the abuser will set out to ruin the other person for leaving them, standing up for themselves.

I have had everything but my clothing stolen and I believe if they had the chance they would have done something to them also. I have lost to abusers my freedom also. What i have lost to them of worldly possessions doesnt equal what I have lost in me.

I can replace in time what worldly possessions I have lost if i choose to but what I have lost of ME I dont know if I will get back. IM working on it and in time I will see and until then I refuse to allow anyone to have that power over me

Im stepping off my soap box now

[Girl_On_Fire]

I've been in a few.

But the thing that stands out the most for me is, well, me.

I am so willing to please my partner and my self esteem rests on ensuring that I make them really see how much they want me or need me so they won't leave. This gives controlling people the idea they can become more controlling in order to fix my life and sort me out.

Because most abusers don't really know they are abusive. And their intention is to control and fix and keep things low anxiety for themselves. And try to have others behave in the way they think is proper, right and for the best.

People who push me to act like a lady (their version) by slowly devaluing my own form of morals. This can't happen without my agreement though. I have to devalue my own opinion in favour of theirs.

They don't like my friends. They tell me why my friends are really bad for me and the manipulative things/wrong/unhealthy things my friends do. I slowly choose to stop seeing my friends. I get praise the more I do this.

They believe do it out of love, support and because they know best and just want to care for me and ensure I do the right things.

They start to suggest how I should interact with my mom and dad.

They tell me the best times I should study even though they have never been to uni.

I start to lose it during arguments because they are not making sense and confusing me. I feel when I'm arguing with them, there is no right answer and I feel trapped. I can't move in the discussion. So I shut up. I say nothing.

Slowly I start to get anxious about doing things just so. She used to be so appreciative and I really want praise from her again. If it do this perfectly, then she'll notice...

I start to crave the absent praise I start going way over my own boundaries and doing things like screwing over other relationships or work.

She starts accusing me of strange things that don't make sense. I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding. And I try to clear it up but it happens again. That weird stuck.... Can't say anything right without insulting her or being accused of something else. I'm just not explaining myself properly...

This shit happens. It's happened to me a few times. But it was also very much about me and my lack of trust in myself, my lack of self esteem, my need to have praise, to be with someone I really admire and want praise from, rather than real intimacy.

I slipped and did it again when I wasn't well after my ex wife left. I can have empathy for myself when I did that. I just wanted to feel valuable again after being left and I fell into very old habits. I wanted to be needed and praised.

I've now not seen anyone seriously for almost a year. I haven't dated in six months. I am taking time to really notice what I want to change about my fears. I'm actually totally fine on my own and I can get praise from school and friends and feeling good about what I do - praise from me to me.

I have stopped trying to impress someone. Or anyone. It's hard. But in doing so I have turned down two people that would have fallen into old patters of me care taking and pleasing. I have a sense of peace, just for me.

And if I do ever get involved again, I want someone a bit more sorted out, someone emotionally stable and someone who likes me to be independant, but knows I can be much different in bed ;)

A friend again. I won't date people again. I'll be friends though. And the trust and sexual compatibility test drives will cme from that.

This post really touched me, the way you broke down the systematic behavior and subsequent doubt. I'm somebody who is always questioning whether or not I'm misunderstanding something.

I often miss "the obvious" (whatever that is) and don't see that someone is trying to mess with my head, be subtle or be passive aggressive at all. It simply doesn't register with me. I take everything said to me and in front of me literally. When you're a literal person, I know this is going to sound weird, I'm sure it's frustrating for the abuser.

I mean, think about it from their point of view. You're trying to really "get someone's goat" by being subtle and it's going over their and they're still staring at you with stars in their eyes. (I can't even imagine how disgusted my ex partner was by this). She had no choice but to up the ante. That's sick I know but I really believe that was a source of frustration for her.

I firmly believe when someone has limited social understanding or is simply very literal and trusting, they can be at risk for not only being targeted by abusers and may be in danger of honestly believing that they are the problem no matter how ridiculous the accusation. I know I definitely fell for this over and over again.

My ex was distinctly aware of my social confusion and lack of experience and took full advantage. Eventually, my only means of escape was to completely deny I had any needs and never ask for anything for fear of "rocking the boat". No matter what I did or how hard I tried, nothing was ever right. The sad thing is, I didn't figure out it wasn't me until it was very close to the end.

It's amazing how that can happen. It's almost like a type of brainwashing.

[gotoseagrl]

Yikes, this is a lot to read. This is so touchy, and not easy for me to step forward with. But I felt the need to say something. I wanted to address emotional/psychological aspect of abuse specifically. The kind that is harder to see from the outside because the wounds & scars are all internal and behind closed doors. The worst kind is sometimes that which develops over time, and has a subtlety to it that is hard to describe. It can keep you in a constant state of severe confusion, even after it's over. Sometimes this can be the most difficult to fully recognize, escape & recover from. It might take you 10+ times trying. That alone is a big sign.

Everyone's situation, limitations & ability to cope & be healthy before something becomes abusive to that particular person, varies. Things I have learned to be possible warning signs, speaking from a combination of personal experience, observation of others, and research (I am making up the examples):

- A lot of times things are amazing in the beginning. But that's only the good side of the passion. Little hostilities start to happen, sometimes very small ... such as "You were away 3 hours instead of 2?" At first it might seem like a really small discrepancy, *but it doesn't sit right with you*. You feel a heavy, negative feeling inside. But your connection with this person is otherwise amazing & you already formed the attachment. So, it passes & you move on.

- Questioning becomes more intense. "Where were you? What were you doing? With who? Why that person? What did they say?" or "You went to the store? Why at this hour? What did you get? What are you going to do with it? But you never usually get that kind." Excessive questioning & speculation feels more like probing than just normal conversation or curiosity. You end up dreading going anywhere or doing anything because you know 20 questions will immediately follow.

- You start having arguments or fights. They are emotionally vicious. That person might not use foul language or even raise a voice. But what they say or ask (and usually repeatedly) feels like a cut from a knife. You notice you are always having to feel defensive whenever there is a conflict. And then you feel extremely hurt after. If you already had trust issues, it might take you a significant amount of time to even be able to bring yourself close to them again. So, you start to really dread having conflicts - or even conversations that could potentially lead to a conflict - with this person, because you know how it will go, how bad it will hurt, how high your anxiety/stress levels will rise.

- You might start to notice that after having such an intense relationship with this person, and a formed emotional dependency, that you start to develop some of their same bad habits. Such as wondering where they are after so many hours, why they are doing x,y,z ... etc. You start questioning a lot yourself.

- You start feeling overwhelmingly that the conflicts & super high stress levels are way too frequent, way too extreme & way too repetitive. You start feeling the need to leave and break it off. You might even do that. But you might either always end up going back - after a lot of harassment and persuasion - or you can't find the courage to actually leave because in your mind & heart you desperately try to rationalize by clinging to the good moments & good qualities of this person. Those little bits are all you have to hang onto in order to survive a lot of times. Memories that come & go quickly, future fantasies (the life you two have planned out), not-yet-fulfilled promises, unachieved goals. Those become like your air to breathe.

There is so, so much I can say. But to try to sum it up, it might be wise to keep in mind that any of the following could possibly indicate that something is wrong:

- If you have any old relationships to compare this one to, think about it. Were the old ones generally pretty good & felt "normal", even if they didn't work out for some non-abusive reason ... did not damage or decrease your health?

- In the relationship, do you notice you do or say or feel things that you know you normally don't with others, or didn't in past relationships? Do you feel the conflicts bring out behaviors in you that aren't healthy or weren't there before? Do they bring out the worst in you? This can only contribute to the cycle of abuse. And your partner can also use these weaknesses of yours against you, which also fuels the cycle.

- Do the conflicts *always* (99.9% of the time) have the same cycle: let's say something has hurt you, you either withdraw from fear & avoid confrontation, or you get the courage to bring it up to your partner. An argument starts because your partner, of course, disagrees/denies/minimizes your feelings. You react, you are upset. They use your reaction against you and quickly assume the victim role. And if they have any kind of reaction of their own, that gets blamed on you too.

** I'd like to note here that sometimes the type of person who tries to claim they are always the calm one, they rarely call you names, etc... this can be one of the most long-lasting abusive tactics, because this person can & will always try to use this as a weapon ... as a reason to prosecute you for any real true emotional reactions you have to the pain. They will always say you are the one overreacting, you are the irrational one, always question why you
are so upset, etc. And that in turn makes you even more upset and/or need to withdraw. It can be a true mind game.

- Do they build you up and then break you down in a contradicting way? When things are fine and on their terms, they might acknowledge that they know you'd never do x,y,z or that you're not that type of person, that they trust you 100% ... that it's just "old relationship baggage" (which no one should have to eternally suffer for). But as soon as the switch flips, they are accusing you of that very thing, calling you out of your character. Or if you did find the courage to leave, do they say and do anything to try to come after you, tear you down, attack, suffocate, harass, violate you? But you know if you gave into them, 5 minutes later they'd be telling you how much they love you & you're the only one for them, how they only want what's best for you (which is always them, according to them) etc. This is like *conditional* "love", where you will only be truly "loved" if you agree to what their primary need is (which is their attachment to you), otherwise you are unfaithful, dishonest, sleezy, a fake, heartless, etc. etc. etc. anything else they can think of that is the furthest from true.

- When it comes to important things, always saying they will, yet rarely ever actually do. Lack of consistency.

- Do they use parts of your own most personal, sensitive past against you, as a weapon when you are fighting or they are hurt? In a conflict or random moment of paranoia, you notice they always resort to bringing up some painful part of your life & throw it in your face, especially when it has nothing to do with the current situation.

- How do they treat you about your exes or new people who have come into your life? Do they ban you from having any contact with an ex because they insist that just because you were with someone in the past, you are bound to want to be with them again or vice versa, even if you & that person are genuinely just friends. If you happen to make a new non-threatening friend, do you immediately get the 3rd degree about what that friend's intentions are, what are their secret motives for wanting to be your friend, etc?

- Double standards ... is it always ok that they do x,y,z, and usually frequently, and you're expected to have no negative reaction to it, yet if you ever did even once by mistake or once in a blue moon, that is not acceptable and you endure hell for it?

- Do you develop new fears you didn't have in relationships before? Do you find that you can't do things or go places (even online) that you used to enjoy because you know they will immediately have something negative to say or ask? You know you will be accused, suspected, and that every little detail will be picked apart. This isn't normal. I believe you should have the trust from your partner that you give in return .. to go and do freely the simple things that bring you positivity and be part of a community as the individual you are without fear, even within a power exchange relationship.

- Do they use guilt or bribes to try to get you to stay? They might say that someone who really loved them would stay forever at any cost, no matter what ... that longevity of a relationship is above all. Or they might constantly dangle in your face promises of the future ... but what about this .. or if you just stay you will have that, what you always wanted. This is called tantalizing, and it can really confuse you as to whether you should stay or not.

- It's true that what someone else thinks isn't always everything, but do you notice that you been warned or even begged by trusted family or a friend more often than not, not to continue in this relationship? Have these people seriously feared for your safety? It's not easy to listen to or even see, but there is a reason for these alerts.

- This one is really important: How are things whenever there is an emergency? Is this someone you feel safe turning to without 2nd thought? Do stress levels increase or max out on top of what is already going on? Do you always end up arguing or feeling even worse during this time of distress? Do they demand personal attention or promptness over whatever else is going on? Do you feel completely alone, emotionally?

- This one is really important too: No one is perfect or without some way they could be working on being a better person or partner in a relationship. You might know that if you have some issues you are working through yourself, then you've done whatever you needed to do to address that ... therapy, some resource, whatever. Has this person done the same? Do they always promise they will get help, if only you stay with them, and they either make weak attempts, dont follow through, or refuse to at all? This isn't fair. And it only means the cycle will continue. Until you have hit rock bottom.

- If you notice that issues you already struggled with (anxiety or depression for example) are only made worse and brought to the lowest points while with this person, or if their questioning or tactics have brought you to your knees in emotional suffering or a breakdown, and this happens over and over ... and over again, then things are far too extreme.

The bottom line is: Love is about visible actions, not just words. Someone who truly cares about you & loves you, will always respect & comply with whatever it is you truly need in order to be a healthy person - not only on their terms, but on yours, because no one knows what you need better than you do. Even if this means the two of you are not working out. They should have concerns about their own health & well-being too and should be proactive about that along with you. Someone with a better grip on reality wouldn't let this type of situation continue either. Leaving doesn't mean you didn't love them and give every ounce you had. The fact that there is abuse doesn't mean they don't have a good side or that you are "misjudging" them. It's true relationships take some work sometimes, but shouldn't be at the harmful sacrifice of your being or health til it's depleted & you are left a shell. Being in a relationship of any kind of lifestyle or dynamic is *always* your own consent & everyone has the right to true love, peace and personal boundaries to be respected. No is no. Enough is enough. Goodbye is goodbye. This was way more than I intended to say, but couldn't find a way to leave out any of these points. I really hope anyone out there who is currently in one of these situations will reach their moment of true and lasting clarity, once and for all... asap. It's never too late.

[*Anya*]

Yikes, this is a lot to read. This is so touchy, and not easy for me to step forward with. But I felt the need to say something. I wanted to address emotional/psychological aspect of abuse specifically. The kind that is harder to see from the outside because the wounds & scars are all internal and behind closed doors. The worst kind is sometimes that which develops over time, and has a subtlety to it that is hard to describe. It can keep you in a constant state of severe confusion, even after it's over. Sometimes this can be the most difficult to fully recognize, escape & recover from. It might take you 10+ times trying. That alone is a big sign.

Everyone's situation, limitations & ability to cope & be healthy before something becomes abusive to that particular person, varies. Things I have learned to be possible warning signs, speaking from a combination of personal experience, observation of others, and research (I am making up the examples):

- A lot of times things are amazing in the beginning. But that's only the good side of the passion. Little hostilities start to happen, sometimes very small ... such as "You were away 3 hours instead of 2?" At first it might seem like a really small discrepancy, *but it doesn't sit right with you*. You feel a heavy, negative feeling inside. But your connection with this person is otherwise amazing & you already formed the attachment. So, it passes & you move on.

- Questioning becomes more intense. "Where were you? What were you doing? With who? Why that person? What did they say?" or "You went to the store? Why at this hour? What did you get? What are you going to do with it? But you never usually get that kind." Excessive questioning & speculation feels more like probing than just normal conversation or curiosity. You end up dreading going anywhere or doing anything because you know 20 questions will immediately follow.

- You start having arguments or fights. They are emotionally vicious. That person might not use foul language or even raise a voice. But what they say or ask (and usually repeatedly) feels like a cut from a knife. You notice you are always having to feel defensive whenever there is a conflict. And then you feel extremely hurt after. If you already had trust issues, it might take you a significant amount of time to even be able to bring yourself close to them again. So, you start to really dread having conflicts - or even conversations that could potentially lead to a conflict - with this person, because you know how it will go, how bad it will hurt, how high your anxiety/stress levels will rise.

- You might start to notice that after having such an intense relationship with this person, and a formed emotional dependency, that you start to develop some of their same bad habits. Such as wondering where they are after so many hours, why they are doing x,y,z ... etc. You start questioning a lot yourself.

- You start feeling overwhelmingly that the conflicts & super high stress levels are way too frequent, way too extreme & way too repetitive. You start feeling the need to leave and break it off. You might even do that. But you might either always end up going back - after a lot of harassment and persuasion - or you can't find the courage to actually leave because in your mind & heart you desperately try to rationalize by clinging to the good moments & good qualities of this person. Those little bits are all you have to hang onto in order to survive a lot of times. Memories that come & go quickly, future fantasies (the life you two have planned out), not-yet-fulfilled promises, unachieved goals. Those become like your air to breathe.

There is so, so much I can say. But to try to sum it up, it might be wise to keep in mind that any of the following could possibly indicate that something is wrong:

- If you have any old relationships to compare this one to, think about it. Were the old ones generally pretty good & felt "normal", even if they didn't work out for some non-abusive reason ... did not damage or decrease your health?

- In the relationship, do you notice you do or say or feel things that you know you normally don't with others, or didn't in past relationships? Do you feel the conflicts bring out behaviors in you that aren't healthy or weren't there before? Do they bring out the worst in you? This can only contribute to the cycle of abuse. And your partner can also use these weaknesses of yours against you, which also fuels the cycle.

- Do the conflicts *always* (99.9% of the time) have the same cycle: let's say something has hurt you, you either withdraw from fear & avoid confrontation, or you get the courage to bring it up to your partner. An argument starts because your partner, of course, disagrees/denies/minimizes your feelings. You react, you are upset. They use your reaction against you and quickly assume the victim role. And if they have any kind of reaction of their own, that gets blamed on you too.

** I'd like to note here that sometimes the type of person who tries to claim they are always the calm one, they rarely call you names, etc... this can be one of the most long-lasting abusive tactics, because this person can & will always try to use this as a weapon ... as a reason to prosecute you for any real true emotional reactions you have to the pain. They will always say you are the one overreacting, you are the irrational one, always question why you
are so upset, etc. And that in turn makes you even more upset and/or need to withdraw. It can be a true mind game.

- Do they build you up and then break you down in a contradicting way? When things are fine and on their terms, they might acknowledge that they know you'd never do x,y,z or that you're not that type of person, that they trust you 100% ... that it's just "old relationship baggage" (which no one should have to eternally suffer for). But as soon as the switch flips, they are accusing you of that very thing, calling you out of your character. Or if you did find the courage to leave, do they say and do anything to try to come after you, tear you down, attack, suffocate, harass, violate you? But you know if you gave into them, 5 minutes later they'd be telling you how much they love you & you're the only one for them, how they only want what's best for you (which is always them, according to them) etc. This is like *conditional* "love", where you will only be truly "loved" if you agree to what their primary need is (which is their attachment to you), otherwise you are unfaithful, dishonest, sleezy, a fake, heartless, etc. etc. etc. anything else they can think of that is the furthest from true.

- When it comes to important things, always saying they will, yet rarely ever actually do. Lack of consistency.

- Do they use parts of your own most personal, sensitive past against you, as a weapon when you are fighting or they are hurt? In a conflict or random moment of paranoia, you notice they always resort to bringing up some painful part of your life & throw it in your face, especially when it has nothing to do with the current situation.

- How do they treat you about your exes or new people who have come into your life? Do they ban you from having any contact with an ex because they insist that just because you were with someone in the past, you are bound to want to be with them again or vice versa, even if you & that person are genuinely just friends. If you happen to make a new non-threatening friend, do you immediately get the 3rd degree about what that friend's intentions are, what are their secret motives for wanting to be your friend, etc?

- Double standards ... is it always ok that they do x,y,z, and usually frequently, and you're expected to have no negative reaction to it, yet if you ever did even once by mistake or once in a blue moon, that is not acceptable and you endure hell for it?

- Do you develop new fears you didn't have in relationships before? Do you find that you can't do things or go places (even online) that you used to enjoy because you know they will immediately have something negative to say or ask? You know you will be accused, suspected, and that every little detail will be picked apart. This isn't normal. I believe you should have the trust from your partner that you give in return .. to go and do freely the simple things that bring you positivity and be part of a community as the individual you are without fear, even within a power exchange relationship.

- Do they use guilt or bribes to try to get you to stay? They might say that someone who really loved them would stay forever at any cost, no matter what ... that longevity of a relationship is above all. Or they might constantly dangle in your face promises of the future ... but what about this .. or if you just stay you will have that, what you always wanted. This is called tantalizing, and it can really confuse you as to whether you should stay or not.

- It's true that what someone else thinks isn't always everything, but do you notice that you been warned or even begged by trusted family or a friend more often than not, not to continue in this relationship? Have these people seriously feared for your safety? It's not easy to listen to or even see, but there is a reason for these alerts.

- This one is really important: How are things whenever there is an emergency? Is this someone you feel safe turning to without 2nd thought? Do stress levels increase or max out on top of what is already going on? Do you always end up arguing or feeling even worse during this time of distress? Do they demand personal attention or promptness over whatever else is going on? Do you feel completely alone, emotionally?

- This one is really important too: No one is perfect or without some way they could be working on being a better person or partner in a relationship. You might know that if you have some issues you are working through yourself, then you've done whatever you needed to do to address that ... therapy, some resource, whatever. Has this person done the same? Do they always promise they will get help, if only you stay with them, and they either make weak attempts, dont follow through, or refuse to at all? This isn't fair. And it only means the cycle will continue. Until you have hit rock bottom.

- If you notice that issues you already struggled with (anxiety or depression for example) are only made worse and brought to the lowest points while with this person, or if their questioning or tactics have brought you to your knees in emotional suffering or a breakdown, and this happens over and over ... and over again, then things are far too extreme.

The bottom line is: Love is about visible actions, not just words. Someone who truly cares about you & loves you, will always respect & comply with whatever it is you truly need in order to be a healthy person - not only on their terms, but on yours, because no one knows what you need better than you do. Even if this means the two of you are not working out. They should have concerns about their own health & well-being too and should be proactive about that along with you. Someone with a better grip on reality wouldn't let this type of situation continue either. Leaving doesn't mean you didn't love them and give every ounce you had. The fact that there is abuse doesn't mean they don't have a good side or that you are "misjudging" them. It's true relationships take some work sometimes, but shouldn't be at the harmful sacrifice of your being or health til it's depleted & you are left a shell. Being in a relationship of any kind of lifestyle or dynamic is *always* your own consent & everyone has the right to true love, peace and personal boundaries to be respected. No is no. Enough is enough. Goodbye is goodbye. This was way more than I intended to say, but couldn't find a way to leave out any of these points. I really hope anyone out there who is currently in one of these situations will reach their moment of true and lasting clarity, once and for all... asap. It's never too late.


Wow, just wow.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

[Girl_On_Fire]

Yikes, this is a lot to read. This is so touchy, and not easy for me to step forward with. But I felt the need to say something. I wanted to address emotional/psychological aspect of abuse specifically. The kind that is harder to see from the outside because the wounds & scars are all internal and behind closed doors. The worst kind is sometimes that which develops over time, and has a subtlety to it that is hard to describe. It can keep you in a constant state of severe confusion, even after it's over. Sometimes this can be the most difficult to fully recognize, escape & recover from. It might take you 10+ times trying. That alone is a big sign.

Everyone's situation, limitations & ability to cope & be healthy before something becomes abusive to that particular person, varies. Things I have learned to be possible warning signs, speaking from a combination of personal experience, observation of others, and research (I am making up the examples):

- A lot of times things are amazing in the beginning. But that's only the good side of the passion. Little hostilities start to happen, sometimes very small ... such as "You were away 3 hours instead of 2?" At first it might seem like a really small discrepancy, *but it doesn't sit right with you*. You feel a heavy, negative feeling inside. But your connection with this person is otherwise amazing & you already formed the attachment. So, it passes & you move on.

- Questioning becomes more intense. "Where were you? What were you doing? With who? Why that person? What did they say?" or "You went to the store? Why at this hour? What did you get? What are you going to do with it? But you never usually get that kind." Excessive questioning & speculation feels more like probing than just normal conversation or curiosity. You end up dreading going anywhere or doing anything because you know 20 questions will immediately follow.

- You start having arguments or fights. They are emotionally vicious. That person might not use foul language or even raise a voice. But what they say or ask (and usually repeatedly) feels like a cut from a knife. You notice you are always having to feel defensive whenever there is a conflict. And then you feel extremely hurt after. If you already had trust issues, it might take you a significant amount of time to even be able to bring yourself close to them again. So, you start to really dread having conflicts - or even conversations that could potentially lead to a conflict - with this person, because you know how it will go, how bad it will hurt, how high your anxiety/stress levels will rise.

- You might start to notice that after having such an intense relationship with this person, and a formed emotional dependency, that you start to develop some of their same bad habits. Such as wondering where they are after so many hours, why they are doing x,y,z ... etc. You start questioning a lot yourself.

- You start feeling overwhelmingly that the conflicts & super high stress levels are way too frequent, way too extreme & way too repetitive. You start feeling the need to leave and break it off. You might even do that. But you might either always end up going back - after a lot of harassment and persuasion - or you can't find the courage to actually leave because in your mind & heart you desperately try to rationalize by clinging to the good moments & good qualities of this person. Those little bits are all you have to hang onto in order to survive a lot of times. Memories that come & go quickly, future fantasies (the life you two have planned out), not-yet-fulfilled promises, unachieved goals. Those become like your air to breathe.

There is so, so much I can say. But to try to sum it up, it might be wise to keep in mind that any of the following could possibly indicate that something is wrong:

- If you have any old relationships to compare this one to, think about it. Were the old ones generally pretty good & felt "normal", even if they didn't work out for some non-abusive reason ... did not damage or decrease your health?

- In the relationship, do you notice you do or say or feel things that you know you normally don't with others, or didn't in past relationships? Do you feel the conflicts bring out behaviors in you that aren't healthy or weren't there before? Do they bring out the worst in you? This can only contribute to the cycle of abuse. And your partner can also use these weaknesses of yours against you, which also fuels the cycle.

- Do the conflicts *always* (99.9% of the time) have the same cycle: let's say something has hurt you, you either withdraw from fear & avoid confrontation, or you get the courage to bring it up to your partner. An argument starts because your partner, of course, disagrees/denies/minimizes your feelings. You react, you are upset. They use your reaction against you and quickly assume the victim role. And if they have any kind of reaction of their own, that gets blamed on you too.

** I'd like to note here that sometimes the type of person who tries to claim they are always the calm one, they rarely call you names, etc... this can be one of the most long-lasting abusive tactics, because this person can & will always try to use this as a weapon ... as a reason to prosecute you for any real true emotional reactions you have to the pain. They will always say you are the one overreacting, you are the irrational one, always question why you
are so upset, etc. And that in turn makes you even more upset and/or need to withdraw. It can be a true mind game.

- Do they build you up and then break you down in a contradicting way? When things are fine and on their terms, they might acknowledge that they know you'd never do x,y,z or that you're not that type of person, that they trust you 100% ... that it's just "old relationship baggage" (which no one should have to eternally suffer for). But as soon as the switch flips, they are accusing you of that very thing, calling you out of your character. Or if you did find the courage to leave, do they say and do anything to try to come after you, tear you down, attack, suffocate, harass, violate you? But you know if you gave into them, 5 minutes later they'd be telling you how much they love you & you're the only one for them, how they only want what's best for you (which is always them, according to them) etc. This is like *conditional* "love", where you will only be truly "loved" if you agree to what their primary need is (which is their attachment to you), otherwise you are unfaithful, dishonest, sleezy, a fake, heartless, etc. etc. etc. anything else they can think of that is the furthest from true.

- When it comes to important things, always saying they will, yet rarely ever actually do. Lack of consistency.

- Do they use parts of your own most personal, sensitive past against you, as a weapon when you are fighting or they are hurt? In a conflict or random moment of paranoia, you notice they always resort to bringing up some painful part of your life & throw it in your face, especially when it has nothing to do with the current situation.

- How do they treat you about your exes or new people who have come into your life? Do they ban you from having any contact with an ex because they insist that just because you were with someone in the past, you are bound to want to be with them again or vice versa, even if you & that person are genuinely just friends. If you happen to make a new non-threatening friend, do you immediately get the 3rd degree about what that friend's intentions are, what are their secret motives for wanting to be your friend, etc?

- Double standards ... is it always ok that they do x,y,z, and usually frequently, and you're expected to have no negative reaction to it, yet if you ever did even once by mistake or once in a blue moon, that is not acceptable and you endure hell for it?

- Do you develop new fears you didn't have in relationships before? Do you find that you can't do things or go places (even online) that you used to enjoy because you know they will immediately have something negative to say or ask? You know you will be accused, suspected, and that every little detail will be picked apart. This isn't normal. I believe you should have the trust from your partner that you give in return .. to go and do freely the simple things that bring you positivity and be part of a community as the individual you are without fear, even within a power exchange relationship.

- Do they use guilt or bribes to try to get you to stay? They might say that someone who really loved them would stay forever at any cost, no matter what ... that longevity of a relationship is above all. Or they might constantly dangle in your face promises of the future ... but what about this .. or if you just stay you will have that, what you always wanted. This is called tantalizing, and it can really confuse you as to whether you should stay or not.

- It's true that what someone else thinks isn't always everything, but do you notice that you been warned or even begged by trusted family or a friend more often than not, not to continue in this relationship? Have these people seriously feared for your safety? It's not easy to listen to or even see, but there is a reason for these alerts.

- This one is really important: How are things whenever there is an emergency? Is this someone you feel safe turning to without 2nd thought? Do stress levels increase or max out on top of what is already going on? Do you always end up arguing or feeling even worse during this time of distress? Do they demand personal attention or promptness over whatever else is going on? Do you feel completely alone, emotionally?

- This one is really important too: No one is perfect or without some way they could be working on being a better person or partner in a relationship. You might know that if you have some issues you are working through yourself, then you've done whatever you needed to do to address that ... therapy, some resource, whatever. Has this person done the same? Do they always promise they will get help, if only you stay with them, and they either make weak attempts, dont follow through, or refuse to at all? This isn't fair. And it only means the cycle will continue. Until you have hit rock bottom.

- If you notice that issues you already struggled with (anxiety or depression for example) are only made worse and brought to the lowest points while with this person, or if their questioning or tactics have brought you to your knees in emotional suffering or a breakdown, and this happens over and over ... and over again, then things are far too extreme.

The bottom line is: Love is about visible actions, not just words. Someone who truly cares about you & loves you, will always respect & comply with whatever it is you truly need in order to be a healthy person - not only on their terms, but on yours, because no one knows what you need better than you do. Even if this means the two of you are not working out. They should have concerns about their own health & well-being too and should be proactive about that along with you. Someone with a better grip on reality wouldn't let this type of situation continue either. Leaving doesn't mean you didn't love them and give every ounce you had. The fact that there is abuse doesn't mean they don't have a good side or that you are "misjudging" them. It's true relationships take some work sometimes, but shouldn't be at the harmful sacrifice of your being or health til it's depleted & you are left a shell. Being in a relationship of any kind of lifestyle or dynamic is *always* your own consent & everyone has the right to true love, peace and personal boundaries to be respected. No is no. Enough is enough. Goodbye is goodbye. This was way more than I intended to say, but couldn't find a way to leave out any of these points. I really hope anyone out there who is currently in one of these situations will reach their moment of true and lasting clarity, once and for all... asap. It's never too late.


I second the "Wow". This is incredible. It breaks the warning signs of an emotionally abusive relationship down so clearly. Thank you so much for this.

[TruTexan]

Thank you Gotoseagrl, I appreciate your post very much. I sat and read it several times lastnight and have had much to ponder about. It hit me hard in my thought processes in many many ways. Thanks for your post and comments.

[always2late]

This is a form of abuse. I know where the abuser to have power over their victim. It can ruin a persons reputation, their livelihood and cause a boat load of problems for them.

Its hard when ur the victim and the abuser keeps threatening to cause problems for you by reporting falsley to the police or to other ppl that you they are the victim when in fact they are the abuser.

They is also the fact where the abuser will set out to ruin the other person for leaving them, standing up for themselves.

I have had everything but my clothing stolen and I believe if they had the chance they would have done something to them also. I have lost to abusers my freedom also. What i have lost to them of worldly possessions doesnt equal what I have lost in me.

I can replace in time what worldly possessions I have lost if i choose to but what I have lost of ME I dont know if I will get back. IM working on it and in time I will see and until then I refuse to allow anyone to have that power over me

Im stepping off my soap box now


The bottom line is: Love is about visible actions, not just words. Someone who truly cares about you & loves you, will always respect & comply with whatever it is you truly need in order to be a healthy person - not only on their terms, but on yours, because no one knows what you need better than you do. Even if this means the two of you are not working out. They should have concerns about their own health & well-being too and should be proactive about that along with you. Someone with a better grip on reality wouldn't let this type of situation continue either. Leaving doesn't mean you didn't love them and give every ounce you had. The fact that there is abuse doesn't mean they don't have a good side or that you are "misjudging" them. It's true relationships take some work sometimes, but shouldn't be at the harmful sacrifice of your being or health til it's depleted & you are left a shell. Being in a relationship of any kind of lifestyle or dynamic is *always* your own consent & everyone has the right to true love, peace and personal boundaries to be respected. No is no. Enough is enough. Goodbye is goodbye. This was way more than I intended to say, but couldn't find a way to leave out any of these points. I really hope anyone out there who is currently in one of these situations will reach their moment of true and lasting clarity, once and for all... asap. It's never too late.


This resonates with me so deeply that it is a bit of a shock. Although I finally recognized the abusive aspects of my past relationship, seeing it in print is still startling. As I posted, the emotional component of abuse can often be overlooked or more readily forgiven. This was true in my case. When I finally got up the courage to break it off, I still didn't recognize the constant harassment, threats of self-harm, hacking into my email accounts, etc...as abuse. Call me naive. What I mostly felt was sadness, and no small measure of guilt (that guilt that abusers count on...the one that takes the form of "Oh no, look what I did to make them behave this way"). It took one action for me to finally see what was happening, and that was when my custody of my son was threatened (i.e. I'm going to go to your ex-husband and tell him A, B, and C about you so you lose your son). THAT was my wakeup call...and when I realized that I had nothing to reproach myself for in leaving the relationship. That was when I realized that the relationship was not, and had never been about, love.

[gotoseagrl]

This resonates with me so deeply that it is a bit of a shock. Although I finally recognized the abusive aspects of my past relationship, seeing it in print is still startling. As I posted, the emotional component of abuse can often be overlooked or more readily forgiven. This was true in my case. When I finally got up the courage to break it off, I still didn't recognize the constant harassment, threats of self-harm, hacking into my email accounts, etc...as abuse. Call me naive. What I mostly felt was sadness, and no small measure of guilt (that guilt that abusers count on...the one that takes the form of "Oh no, look what I did to make them behave this way"). It took one action for me to finally see what was happening, and that was when my custody of my son was threatened (i.e. I'm going to go to your ex-husband and tell him A, B, and C about you so you lose your son). THAT was my wakeup call...and when I realized that I had nothing to reproach myself for in leaving the relationship. That was when I realized that the relationship was not, and had never been about, love.

Seems like it's when you literally come to the end of your rope ... when there are no more fantasies to cling to, when you've tried the last thing you can try, had given every possibility a chance. When you've seen nothing humanly possible works, even with time. When you've already been running on empty, have no idea how you made it so far, and still being drained for your last drop. When there's no other direction for you to go but out ... because you've finally realized that threat to your livelihood & survival. That's rock bottom. You might have a lot of recovering to do, but what a relief when you come up over that hill.

And thank you all for the wonderful comments, and for this important thread.

[CherylNYC]

I have to say that I really admire all the survivors here who are living, loving and functioning after leaving abusive long term, committed relationships. I know what it took for me to come back from my long term emotionally abusive relationship many years ago. I simply wouldn't be the person I am today if my next partner had not made it her business to heal and support me. Sharon was everything that my former partner could never be, and she was the single healthy romantic relationship I've had in my life. By the time she died four years later, I knew what it meant to be well loved.

Fast forward to my recent dating experience with an emotional abuser. It's flipping HARD to recover from this! It's been months since I told her to never contact me again, yet I'm still randomly furious, and I'm still replaying those damaging events in my head and thinking about what I could have/should have done/said differently. She managed to undermine me in some pretty fundamental ways in the short time we dated, and I'm still telling her to go f**k herself in my head. I can't imagine how much harder this would be for me if I had stayed longer.

Brava/bravo to all of you who have come back strong from this sort of thing. It's really, REALLY hard.

[TruTexan]

It's been a long waring process for me to heal. I"m still not there yet, But I will be in time. I know it just takes time. I am so leary about meeting or dating anyone anymore because of what I endured. IT's frightening to have someone do to me what she did. It Broke me inside and scared me to death about what could have happened to me even though I was not guilty of being the abuser. IT was she that was the abuser always setting off my ptsd,pushing my buttons, acting crazy and telling everyone I was doing things to her and hurting her. I freaked and told her I was leaving just as soon as I could when I got my disability check the next month. I won't go into detail but it just wasn't right what she claimed to the police saying I did things to her when I didn't do anything but tell her to get her shit together and stop acting like the way she was acting and stop treating me wrong. I ended up leaving that very night after an argument with her via police escort. I wasn't arrested for anything because I didn't do anything. I had to live in a shelter until me check came, I was alone in a state I didn't know anyone in and was frightened to death of what she was planning on doing. I could feel it in my gut. When I left, I got mail a couple months later telling me I had DV charges filed against me for things I never did.
She was a real nut job I think. And since I left I think it pissed her off so she made false claims of abuse about me. It cost me a ton of money that I couldn't afford, but i managed to handle and pay out to a really good attorney. I wasn't found guilty, I was aquitted do to lack of evidence. There was NO evidence what so ever that I did the things she said.
For me, this has really messed up my personal life, social life, and put a huge strain on me financially just to go through this mess she created. I"m tired of not talking about it, tired of being silenced, pissed off that I haven't been able to have a voice, and I'm glad Girl started this thread. I appreciate everyone's input, it has greatly opened my eyes and my mind. I have man things to ponder still and work through. It's been 3yrs this coming year and I still need to go back to a therapist and do some more work on me.
Anywho, Thank you all for your input and thoughts on this subject.

[Girl_On_Fire]

I have to say another warning sign might be asking for money. Now, mind you, if you're in a committed relationship and you're together for a while, sharing finances and supporting each other is typical. However, if you're only just met someone or have only interacted with them online and they start talking about major hardships where they need money, something is amiss. Nobody (except perhaps those with social learning disabilities) would ask what would basically be a virtual stranger for financial help. It just crosses a line.

[TruTexan]

I feel like the biggest sucker that has ever walked the earth at times. I"ve fallen for so much bullshit it's pathetic. So back to therapy I go thanks to this thread for opening my eyes even more. I know I need to work on stopping the patterns of picking partners I've had in the past. I will be doing therapy this month if not next month. And I'm going to work hard on stopping those patterns of abusive relationships in all forms. It's going to be intensive therapy for me.

[Girl_On_Fire]

I feel like the biggest sucker that has ever walked the earth at times. I"ve fallen for so much bullshit it's pathetic. So back to therapy I go thanks to this thread for opening my eyes even more. I know I need to work on stopping the patterns of picking partners I've had in the past. I will be doing therapy this month if not next month. And I'm going to work hard on stopping those patterns of abusive relationships in all forms. It's going to be intensive therapy for me.

People who are kind, loving, and trusting are rare in this world. Honestly, we are not the problem. We need more of that in this world. It's the people who see our goodness and exploit it for their own gain who are the ones who really have the problem. I think that the key is to find a balance of maintaining your good heart and protecting yourself from those who would wish to take advantage of you. I'm learning that now. It's a process. You're not alone.

[TruTexan]

I wonder, are there any other forms of abuse that we haven't talked about?

[Words]

I haven't read every post so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but one red flag would be (for me) when someone resorts to blaming every bad word/action/whatever on physical or mental health issues (either real or imagined). I haven't experienced this personally but someone very dear to me has done and it really did a number of them. (I know from my own experience with my daughter (special needs) that it's definitely a slippery slope when you start excusing negative behaviour that can be controlled but isn't.) I'm not saying (of course) that I wouldn't be supportive of a partner who had genuine health issues, but what I wouldn't do is allow them to use those issues as an excuse for treating me poorly.

Words

[TruTexan]

I haven't read every post so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but one red flag would be (for me) when someone resorts to blaming every bad word/action/whatever on physical or mental health issues (either real or imagined). I haven't experienced this personally but someone very dear to me has done and it really did a number of them. (I know from my own experience with my daughter (special needs) that it's definitely a slippery slope when you start excusing negative behaviour that can be controlled but isn't.) I'm not saying (of course) that I wouldn't be supportive of a partner who had genuine health issues, but what I wouldn't do is allow them to use those issues as an excuse for treating me poorly.

Words

Words, thank you for mentioning this in your post. This is a form of abuse I forgot about and that's not been mentioned here before. Sometimes this type person with those issues uses it as an excuse to blame the victim instead of owning up to their own issues and seeking help for themselves. It's just another form of abuse In my own opinion. I know of a couple people that it's happened to. I felt bad for them because it was a nightmare to endure, the emotional and mental anguish they went through was horrible and they finally ended their relationships. I'm glad they did.Thanks for your input, keep coming back.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I have to say that I really admire all the survivors here who are living, loving and functioning after leaving abusive long term, committed relationships. I know what it took for me to come back from my long term emotionally abusive relationship many years ago. I simply wouldn't be the person I am today if my next partner had not made it her business to heal and support me. Sharon was everything that my former partner could never be, and she was the single healthy romantic relationship I've had in my life. By the time she died four years later, I knew what it meant to be well loved.

Fast forward to my recent dating experience with an emotional abuser. It's flipping HARD to recover from this! It's been months since I told her to never contact me again, yet I'm still randomly furious, and I'm still replaying those damaging events in my head and thinking about what I could have/should have done/said differently. She managed to undermine me in some pretty fundamental ways in the short time we dated, and I'm still telling her to go f**k herself in my head. I can't imagine how much harder this would be for me if I had stayed longer.

Brava/bravo to all of you who have come back strong from this sort of thing. It's really, REALLY hard.


Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You: Susan Forward, Donna Frazier: 9780060928971: Amazon.com: Books

This book really helped me after my brief relationship with the narcissist. It was given to me my her ex. After we broke I had people very quietly come up to me and tell me "my ex saw her just before you..." And tell me stories as well as other femmes in my community come up and have a very quiet word.

I need to re read it from my last person. I was having an affair with her, something I thought I'd never ever do again after 10 years previously learning my lesson about being the other woman. But I was in such a place of emotional wreckage and frightened and she was my only good friend, I was completely alone in that city, trying to find a way out. Tbh I don't think I would have done anything differently because I was so unstable and alone.

She wasn't a monster. She had incredibly good qualities along with the abusive traits. That's why I don't like calling People abusers unless they are like that narcissist I was seeing. Rather they have abuseive behaviours. I don't like reducing people to roles. It makes me feel icky.

But some of her behaviours I feel the same as you... I am still fantasizing and getting angry about. It's finally starting to fade and I'm finally occasionally starting to hope that now that she's getting married and moving, to a place more stable and to a woman who is kind and doesn't drink, perhaps she'll get back on the wagon and her behaviour will change. And I wish her well.

But I do still get angry with how she treated *me* and I get so angry that I actually became so desirous of her praise that I did horrible things for her to try to show people she wasn't a bad person. That she was just misunderstood. That she was just hurting from being treated so poorly (she was but it wasn't one sided - and she always owned up to treated her ex wife poorly).

The girl she was seeing used to call me and cry and talk to me, as I was "just an ex" and I'd listen and you know I used to feel relief that it wasn't just me, that she treated other people just as insanely, and that I wasn't imagining things or nuts (because past partners made me feel that way about their abuseive behaviour)

I have a beauty and the beast problem. I know this.
It's why I don't trust myself.
And why I do not trust words. At all. I've been called names like ice queen cause I have no use for romantic words now.
Show me. Show me how you feel with how you behave and how you help me with my life, I have no use for romantic flower talk. None. If someone wants to express how much they care about me, then observe my life and see how you can offer to enriched it through your actions. Words are cheap ( and I'm a writer, I should know lol)

[Girl_On_Fire]

I haven't read every post so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet but one red flag would be (for me) when someone resorts to blaming every bad word/action/whatever on physical or mental health issues (either real or imagined). I haven't experienced this personally but someone very dear to me has done and it really did a number of them. (I know from my own experience with my daughter (special needs) that it's definitely a slippery slope when you start excusing negative behaviour that can be controlled but isn't.) I'm not saying (of course) that I wouldn't be supportive of a partner who had genuine health issues, but what I wouldn't do is allow them to use those issues as an excuse for treating me poorly.

Words

Thank you for bringing this up. I also believe that there's a flip side to this. If your partner is aware that you have a type of mental or developmental disability and they continue to use that against you, it's a type of abuse. I've waited until now to bring this up because I didn't want to derail the discussion but I have Asperger's syndrome.

I'm self-diagnosed but from years of research and talking with people who have it, I more than qualify. When I first told my partner this, I explained the literal way that I think and that I need a great deal of clarification in order to understand any social wrong-doing or misunderstanding. Without it, "the obvious" goes right over my head. With other people I had dated, I didn't know this about myself and relationships failed before they even began.

With my last ex, I understood what to explain and what I needed and thought this would be very helpful. After all, once you explain to someone that you absolutely cannot help not understanding something, they couldn't possibly continue to get angry with you for not getting it without speaking to them in a way they understand, right? I mean, it would be like getting angry with someone in a wheelchair for not being able to walk.

Well, instead of this information being helpful, my ex used it to further confuse me. She would try to "educate" me on a appropriate social behavior and since I had no foundation for this in the context of a romantic partnership, she was able to use me as a puppet.

I said and did things and acted in ways I was instructed were appropriate and then realized later I was only being manipulated. I would act the way she said she wanted me to act and would make her feel loved in the relationship and then be treated like I was completely insane when I did what I was told was expected of me.

A lot of this also had to do with cultural expectations as she was from the South and I from the North. It was quite easy for the combination of my Asperger's and the fact I lived in a completely different environment to be an easy way to manipulate, control, confuse, and punish me.

For most neurotypical (non-autistic people) this is not a concern even in emotionally-abusive relationships. After all, NT people have a firm social foundation and can usually tell when they're being asked to behave in a way that doesn't make sense for them. Not so us Aspies. We are like like hollow social sponges. Mimicking and following the examples of others in our environment is the only way we can survive socially. It's the way we learn.

I think people with Asperger's and other forms of social developmental issues may be at a great deal of increased risk for being targeted by someone with abusive tendencies. We are always looking for direction even if we aren't aware of it.

Like honeybarbara, I don't trust myself. This is why I need and want those I truly know love and care about me to get to know potential partners from now on. Most of my friends and family behave in a healthy, normal ways and I need to compare and contrast and "run them by" NT people so I'm certain that what I'm feeling (I partner by emotional vibration alone) doesn't ever put me in danger again. I also have clear-cut set rules for romantic encounters now so I don't even up ever again following my heart off of a cliff.

When you don't know you have a blind spot and a massive one, I do believe it takes legions of angels to protect you (if you believe in such things) until you are able to clearly see and understand what some people are capable of.

[Kobi]

I have been going over the statistics Snow posted on the previous page on domestic violence in lesbian relationships. And I have been looking for supporting data trying to sort out the numbers.

If I take that fact sheet at face value, up to 90% of us could be considered abusers or having engaged in behavior that can be seen as abusive. Does that make sense? Seriously, that isn't even logical.

Hart (1986) defines lesbian domestic violence as “That pattern of violent and coercive behaviours whereby a lesbian seeks to control the thoughts, beliefs, or conduct of her intimate partner or to punish the intimate for resisting the perpetrator's control over her”.

It's a power thing. It's a pattern. It's a control issue. It is deliberate and malicious and pathological. When there is a power differential, there is the potential for abuse.

Being a staunch feminist, I am very aware of and attuned to womens issues. As a social worker, I have seen some nasty abuse stuff all across the spectrum of gender and behavior. I have also seen things that have turned out not to be what they initially appeared.

Some of it is my age and some my occupation, but with the exception of physical abuse, I am reluctant to use the words "abusive" to describe a relationship or behavior, and "abuser" to describe a person. Here's why:

1. People come into relationships with their respective baggage and issues. If your baggage and issues are complimentary, things might be smoother sailing. If your baggage and issues are not, things are likely to be conflictual and even volatile.

2. Relationships can be good or bad, healthy or unhealthy, functional or dysfunctional. What appears to be totally bizarre to me, works for some people. What works for me might look totally bizarre to someone else.

3. Some couples are just a bad fit for one another. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole makes for a lot of misunderstandings, hurt feelings and accusations. Bad couples do not equate to bad people.

4. People change over time. If the relationship changes with them, it's a good thing. If it doesn't, problems are bound to arise.

5. People use certain words for a reason, with or without recognition that the words carry a certain impact. As TruTexan has experienced, once labeled an abuser, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. By then, the damage has already been done to your reputation, finances, livelihood, self esteem etc.

6. Relationships are very complex and not easy to sort out. They can be unhealthy, dysfunctional, problematic, but not necessarily abusive. People do weird shit to one another all the time because they are angry, jealous, hurt, cant get their way etc.

I take abuse and domestic violence very seriously. There are certain criteria that make for an abusive relationship. When we play with the definition, we tend to water down a very serious issue into something else.

That is just not cool.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Kobi, I believe that most of the female bodied people have experienced one form of abuse or another, be it from a family member, lover, friend, partner, husband, wife, uncles. There are some forms of abuse that a lot of us do not discuss or that are not reported.

When I discuss abuse I am not speaking of the everyday misbehaviors between people, and even then some of those ickie behaviours that continue and become repetative such as what you numbered then it is abuse and it becomes a vicious cycle over over and over and over.

[Medusa]

I think Kobi makes a salient point about being careful with definitions.

I'd also like to say that there is a wide gap between a person who is an "abuser" and a person who is displaying abusive behavior.

[Words]

Thank you for bringing this up. I also believe that there's a flip side to this. If your partner is aware that you have a type of mental or developmental disability and they continue to use that against you, it's a type of abuse.

Absolutely, and thank you for pointing it out. (I'm bi polar so I totally relate to what you're saying.)

Words

[imperfect_cupcake]

I think Kobi makes a salient point about being careful with definitions.

I'd also like to say that there is a wide gap between a person who is an "abuser" and a person who is displaying abusive behavior.

That's why I think the I book that I posted is actually incredibly useful. If anyone wishes to read the introduction, it's quite helpful to see things described as behaviour, rather than an identity. And to also understand that much emotionally abusive behaviour, is done from a place of complete anxiety in a person.

I have been emotionally abusive without understanding what I was doing. I have hurt people. When I grasped on to how dysfunctional I was behaving, I felt fucking awful. But also unable to stop because of the dysfunctional dynamic between me and her. I went to therapy immediately. I tried to get her to go. She refused and said therapy was pointless.

And drank more.

Often two people display emotionally abusive behaviour in a relationship, not just one.

I am no angle. I am no victim. I don't feel like one with those that I have been with. When I was younger and very naive, ok. But not after all the stuff I know and experienced. That wasn't all someone else.

I am not talking about anyone else but me, let me be clear.

I have done shitty, SHITTY things because I wanted to please someone and get their praise. I went against my own ethics. And I can't say " Oh she manipulated me into them because I was in such a bad place" yeah, I was in a bad place. Yeah, she was manipulative. But I did them. I'm completely 100% responsible for what I did. I also knew better. I was working from a point of emotional weakness and fear. And my old needs to please and get praise. It's these flaws in myself that if I don't keep in check and monitor and rein in, just as much as someone else's alcoholism, it hurts others. But thing is I get to claim I was used. When knowing full well I was indulging in self destructive behaviour.

This is why i am saying I have been with quite a few people with abusive behaviour, but only three abusers - the people who were abusers were systematic, self-aware (ish. They were very good at subconsciously compartmentalizing their morals so could feel very wounded about being called a liar and feel genuine hurt and dismay while ignoring they were actually lying), and continual with little remorse.

That book shows how to deal with behaviours. And one can take stock of ones own responsibilities and also decide if it's abusive behaviour and thus is it something you want to salvage or not; or this an abuser.

The intro is free to read and very informative.

[Kobi]

Kobi, I believe that most of the female bodied people have experienced one form of abuse or another, be it from a family member, lover, friend, partner, husband, wife, uncles. There are some forms of abuse that a lot of us do not discuss or that are not reported.

When I discuss abuse I am not speaking of the everyday misbehaviors between people, and even then some of those ickie behaviours that continue and become repetative such as what you numbered then it is abuse and it becomes a vicious cycle over over and over and over.


Snow, I agree that most females have experienced abuse by the traditional definition of the concept at the hands of other people at some point in their lives.

What I was referring to was this:


About 17-45% of lesbians report having been the victim of a least one act of physical violence perpetrated by a lesbian partner (1,5,6,13). Types of physical abuse named by more than 10% of participants in one study included:

Disrupting other’s eating or sleeping habits

Pushing or shoving, driving recklessly to punish, and slapping, kicking, hitting, or biting (11).

Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians (12).

Psychological abuse has been reported as occurring at least one time by 24% to 90% of lesbians (1,5,6,11,14).


These are stats for lesbian-lesbian relationships. Not for women in general. At least one incident of psychological abuse in a relationship by 24-90% of lesbians? Sexual abuse 50% of the time?

This is when I feel like I am living in a parallel universe.

[Martina]

Yeah, I haven't posted because I haven't been with anybody who was a serial abuser.

I have been very lucky in my closest relationships. I was in a D/s relationship -- non-sexual -- years ago with someone I barely knew. I was physically assaulted, deprived of sleep and worked seven days a week. It goes on. I stayed for a few weeks after the assault because I did not want to fail. Strangely that experience left few scars. I think because it wasn't intimate emotionally or sexually. The person's therapist called me after I left -- I don't even know how she got my number -- and told me she was going to contact me to tell me to get out, but that I left before she could. She validated my experience, and that helped me let it go.

I had a friend type situation that involved threats of violence. This scared me more and left me with more anger. I think that was because we had been friends, although looking back on it, I see she wasn't really capable of that. Her own needs -- of various types -- were driving her so hard that everyone was just an object to her. Everything was about whether someone or some interaction could make her feel better for a second or not. Even angry ones, and she had a lot of those. I don't know. But I don't think of her as an abuser although narcissistic fits -- at least at that point in her life. She was mentally ill. Probably in the process of falling apart. I don't know. But she did me some genuine damage. Scared me. It took me two years to get past that in one way or another.

I have also done some shitty things to people. People who deserved understanding but I gave them judgement. I wish I had done better.

[TruTexan]

I have to admit that I"m very guilty of lashing out from anger and hurt at the same time and it hasn't been pretty, it's been painful for those to hear me tell them things that I didn't mean.I just wanted them to hurt in return as much as I was hurting and feeling angry with them. I have felt terribly bad afterwards about doing it, but I'm working on it everyday to stop it. I'm getting better at not doing it because I've gone to some therapy will continue to go; and communicating how I feel instead of outbursts when I've had enough, and with more therapy I should be able to control it better and not say things out of anger and hurt. I think there are a lot of people that get so overwhelmed when they are tired of being lied to, tired of drama, tired of abuse, and everything that goes with all of that, that they say things they don't actually mean, and it comes from a place of flat out anger and deep hurt, and the other parties find it abusive when they react they way they have. Sometimes you just lose it but it still doesn't make it right when you say things out of hurt and anger that you don't mean to. I try not to hold things like that against anyone and try to figure out if that is what it is all about so I ask them. I learned that in therapy too. I'm trying hard to learn to deal with my mom because she does that and I've learned to step away from it and tell myself, that's not my mom, that's anger and hurt talking and there's nothing I can do to fix her when she's like that, and just get in my truck and go home to my own quiet little apt where my serenity is. Mom won't go for help so I have to learn to cope with dealing with her when she's like that. I'm my mom's caretaker, so it's something I have to do to still be able to help her when she needs me. It doesn't make it right and I don't put up with it anymore, but instead of losing it on her out of anger and deep hurt myself, I just tell her I have to go home now. It works best that way. And I do get that phone call with mom crying and telling me she's sorry and I know deep down inside she is and it's not fake, it's very real, she's just a torn woman inside that knows nothing but abuse in her life and she won't seek help. I love her and she's the only mom I have so I just try to keep the peace. She's getting better at communicating with me instead of yelling and screaming at me when she's feeling overwhelmed, stressed, angry and hurt, she's begun to talk to me more about how she feels since I've learned to not engage her when she's acting like that. I think my telling her I won't tolerate it anymore has really sunk in and she's taken it to heart because things have changed between us for the better.

[Nic]

Been doing a lot of self education recently. Can't tell you how many times I've heard this in the last few months. Every group of survivors I meet has had to do battle with an ex who spouted the "She/he done me wrong" and "I was so misunderstood" story. There are a lot of people who tell that story but they seem to fall into a couple of predictable categories: folks who are really wounded and can't seem to move on from that pain and folks who need you to see them as worthy of sympathy in order to gain access to you.

I'm in no way blaming people for being victims of emotional or physical violence but there's another distinction that needs to be made here. A couple of others have touched on it. Just want to suss it out a bit more and say that one of the things that strikes me as insidious in the abuse/abuser/onlooker triangle is the expectation (by onlookers) that abuse victims never engage in any passive aggressive or manipulative behavior in order to be deserving of support from outside the abusive relationship. That holier than thou POV penalizes the abused person and generally works to the abuser's advantage. It's as if the victims are required to show twice as much restraint or have double the healthy, emotional outlook when compared to their abuser or anyone else for that matter. Example: it's not uncommon for folks who are being or have been abused to be passive aggressive or manipulative because they have no relationship with having their needs met any other way. Constantly being belittled and shamed somehow will make a person stop (or never start) asking for what they need in a straightforward way. If you're taught that your voice doesn't matter or your needs don't mean anything you're eventually going stop walking the healthy line from A to B and use more circuitous route to get your needs seen to. Inevitably an onlooker sees that behavior and wrongly attributes negative intention to it rather than labeling it the survival behavior that it is. Suddenly it's the abused person who's the "bad" one in the relationship and the abuser starts to benefit from that opinion, even counts on it to reinforce the idea that they're working hard and just trying their best to keep things together under the "burden" of their victim's passive aggressive behavior. You see evidence that it works in the sympathy they gain from friends and family members. Even more powerful than what they gain from others is the way they can use the victim's survivor dysfunction against them to further undermine that person's self esteem and create more self doubt. The victim gets cast in the "emotionally unstable" role making the abuser the one who's "worthy" of sympathy from onlookers and even from the victim him/herself! Of course the abuser has temper outbursts! Just look at what the poor guy/gal has to deal with! Pretty neat trick.

We participate in reinforcing the facade of abusers if we spend any time shaking our heads at victims who "dare" to choose anything but completely straightforward, healthy, well adjusted, even tempered behavior in order to get their needs met or the work of a relationship done. We add insult to injury by shaking our heads over them when we discover that they didn't leave at the very first sign of abuse. We pretty much demand that they be better than the abuser and, sometimes, better than we are ourselves. Everyone is passive aggressive or manipulative at one time or another. Difference between abusive behavior and survivor behavior is how and why manipulation is used. Tactics that undermine another person's sense of self or self respect falls into the abuse category to me.



Someone asked me for clarification of my statements (in bold and red above). Mockery doesn't translate well to the screen.

I was being sarcastic about abusers who are skilled at misdirection. Onlookers occasionally discover that they felt sympathy for (later revealed) abusers and excused an abusers displays of temper or behavior because the victim in that case displayed emotions that seemed out of context or behavior that was attributed to emotional instability.

Abusers are good at misdirection. This is especially important if they come to the attention of normal thinking folks might. A victim who has the rug pulled out from under him or her often enough may begin to feel unstable and confused and act so when it's no longer possible to keep a lid on so much stress. The abuser in this case has to convince everyone that up is down and left is right. Their ability to keep a victim in a constant state of stress and the onlooker constantly supplied with "reasonable" explanations can often be integral to their facade. If the abused person is unable to rein in emotional upset and feelings of chaos and happens to behave in a way that gets the attention of an onlooker or is uncomfortable to an onlooker the abuser has to be good at misdirection (i.e.:redirecting blame and judgement from themselves onto the abused). Onlookers often find themselves excusing what seems like controlling or red flag behavior on the part of the suspected abuser by saying "Of course he/she is behaving that way. Look at the emotional behavior he/she has to deal with in their partner/child/friend/etc." It's one of the ways abusers maintain or restore their power. They involve onlookers by drawing them into the lie with "reasonable" explanations and sympathy ploys. Onlooker support is one of the best ways to keep an abuse victim off balance. If a reasonable person is convinced to be sympathetic to the "plight" of an abuser whose partner appears emotionally unstable (because of the difficulty of maintaining the appearance of normalcy and the stress of constant anxiety/fear and shifting rules or standards of behavior) the abuse victim is doubly penalized. Not only do they have the abuser to deal with but now the onlooker(s) have been fooled into being sympathetic toward the abuser rather than being people of safety to whom a victim can turn for help.

[Rockinonahigh]

I feel like the biggest sucker that has ever walked the earth at times. I"ve fallen for so much bullshit it's pathetic. So back to therapy I go thanks to this thread for opening my eyes even more. I know I need to work on stopping the patterns of picking partners I've had in the past. I will be doing therapy this month if not next month. And I'm going to work hard on stopping those patterns of abusive relationships in all forms. It's going to be intensive therapy for me.


Tex.
I fought going to therapy for years,I knew I needed to go but telling someone I don't know about the issues I have just didn't fly,so for years I filed it away somewhere in the back of my mind like it never happened. But it wormed it's way into parts of my life bit by bit till it made me a mess to deal with.Then at a pflag meeting I reconected with an old friend who introduced me to a therapist that over time led me to go to this person for a therapist.we waded through a min field of everything that popped into my mind the good,the bad,the not so bad then the disasters.This helped me in many ways to learn how to deal with life as it is and was along with how I hope for it to become.I still go on an as needed basics .I still have a couple of things I really need to work on but I have been trying not deal with it cause I know the powder keg that will blow when I do,maybe it won't be so big who knows.

[Teddybear]

It's been a long waring process for me to heal. I"m still not there yet, But I will be in time. I know it just takes time. I am so leary about meeting or dating anyone anymore because of what I endured. IT's frightening to have someone do to me what she did. It Broke me inside and scared me to death about what could have happened to me even though I was not guilty of being the abuser. IT was she that was the abuser always setting off my ptsd,pushing my buttons, acting crazy and telling everyone I was doing things to her and hurting her. I freaked and told her I was leaving just as soon as I could when I got my disability check the next month. I won't go into detail but it just wasn't right what she claimed to the police saying I did things to her when I didn't do anything but tell her to get her shit together and stop acting like the way she was acting and stop treating me wrong. I ended up leaving that very night after an argument with her via police escort. I wasn't arrested for anything because I didn't do anything. I had to live in a shelter until me check came, I was alone in a state I didn't know anyone in and was frightened to death of what she was planning on doing. I could feel it in my gut. When I left, I got mail a couple months later telling me I had DV charges filed against me for things I never did.
She was a real nut job I think. And since I left I think it pissed her off so she made false claims of abuse about me. It cost me a ton of money that I couldn't afford, but i managed to handle and pay out to a really good attorney. I wasn't found guilty, I was aquitted do to lack of evidence. There was NO evidence what so ever that I did the things she said.
For me, this has really messed up my personal life, social life, and put a huge strain on me financially just to go through this mess she created. I"m tired of not talking about it, tired of being silenced, pissed off that I haven't been able to have a voice, and I'm glad Girl started this thread. I appreciate everyone's input, it has greatly opened my eyes and my mind. I have man things to ponder still and work through. It's been 3yrs this coming year and I still need to go back to a therapist and do some more work on me.
Anywho, Thank you all for your input and thoughts on this subject.


I so know this. I too have been FALSELY accused however I was arrested cause my abuser swore that I did things to her I never did. I was told long ago when someone points one finger at you there are 4 pointed back at them. I have learned to realize just what that means. I take a long hard look at who is pointing and what now.

I have lost time from work, money and self respect for I started to believe the things that my abuser said I was doing. I knew deep down I had never done those things but you know the mind will start to play tricks on you when your constantly told an ALTERNATE story line, that has SOME truth in it.

I used to think that me being kind and loving to them would stop the abuse it didnt. What it did was ramp it up. The more I tried the worse it got.

When I finally said Im done you would have thought I had started a war. No matter how calm I stayed the louder she got. I left and she called and told the police all kinds of things. I have to say the 1 thing she could have really said that would have had me placed under the jail she didnt and Im not about to say what it is.

Daily I have to face Me. I have to look Me in the face and tell myself I am better off ALONE then being with ANYONE who wants to tear me down.

I know that working on me and keeping my truth I will overcome the hold my abusers have had over me. Its a daily struggle one that Im sure isnt about to just up and disappear.

[TruTexan]

Someone asked me for clarification of my statements (in bold and red above). Mockery doesn't translate well to the screen.

I was being sarcastic about abusers who are skilled at misdirection. Onlookers occasionally discover that they felt sympathy for (later revealed) abusers and excused an abusers displays of temper or behavior because the victim in that case displayed emotions that seemed out of context or behavior that was attributed to emotional instability.

Abusers are good at misdirection. This is especially important if they come to the attention of normal thinking folks might. A victim who has the rug pulled out from under him or her often enough may begin to feel unstable and confused and act so when it's no longer possible to keep a lid on so much stress. The abuser in this case has to convince everyone that up is down and left is right. Their ability to keep a victim in a constant state of stress and the onlooker constantly supplied with "reasonable" explanations can often be integral to their facade. If the abused person is unable to rein in emotional upset and feelings of chaos and happens to behave in a way that gets the attention of an onlooker or is uncomfortable to an onlooker the abuser has to be good at misdirection (i.e.:redirecting blame and judgement from themselves onto the abused). Onlookers often find themselves excusing what seems like controlling or red flag behavior on the part of the suspected abuser by saying "Of course he/she is behaving that way. Look at the emotional behavior he/she has to deal with in their partner/child/friend/etc." It's one of the ways abusers maintain or restore their power. They involve onlookers by drawing them into the lie with "reasonable" explanations and sympathy ploys. Onlooker support is one of the best ways to keep an abuse victim off balance. If a reasonable person is convinced to be sympathetic to the "plight" of an abuser whose partner appears emotionally unstable (because of the difficulty of maintaining the appearance of normalcy and the stress of constant anxiety/fear and shifting rules or standards of behavior) the abuse victim is doubly penalized. Not only do they have the abuser to deal with but now the onlooker(s) have been fooled into being sympathetic toward the abuser rather than being people of safety to whom a victim can turn for help.

Thanks for your clarification, I can totally understand now. OMG! I've lived it but didn't know how to put it into words. Thank you so much you have no idea how much this has helped me to feel validated about myself in ways you will never know or some will never understand but YOU got it right on the nail head. Thank you NIC. Please keep posting here.

[Girl_On_Fire]

The term I think some are looking for is "Gaslighting". "Gaslight" is a film that came out in 1944 starring Ingrid Bergman and it features a husband who does little things to his wife over a period of time to try to make her think she is insane. Eventually, after all the stress compounds, she begins to have small public breakdowns throughout the movie, further reinforcing the belief her husband has tried to perpetuate; that his wife is insane. (His entire reasoning for doing this is to get her locked up and inherit her fortune).

Some people just do this for fun. Some because they honestly don't know any better and it's simply a pattern from their childhood. Since that movie, a psychological term came about called 'gaslighting' in which one partner slowly and methodically picks apart at the sanity of another by implanting false information and misdirecting to make the other person questions themselves so much, they doubt their own sanity. This makes one of the partner even more vulnerable and easy to control. When they finally blow up or have a breakdown, the abuser can say, "See, I told you she was nuts." It's the most isolating, horrible, mentally-torturing feeling on earth. I've been through it.

**

I also want to address the "abuser versus victim" topic. I've only once considered myself a victim. I don't anymore. I'm somebody who unfortunately gets into a pattern of abusive relationships. I'm no innocent angel either. However, I can say with complete honesty that I have never in my life gone out of my way to harm somebody in a premeditated fashion. Have I reacted out of anger, fear, frustration or confusion in the moment? Yes. Absolutely. Has my inability read and understand social cues hurt people indirectly without my being aware of it? Yes. Absolutely. And once I figured out what I had been doing, it hit me like a ton of bricks and I spent several months tracking people down to apologize to them. (Which, unfortunately, got me back together with my ex).

I think there is something to be said about intent. (Yes, it's my favorite word.) An abuser, in my opinion, is someone who clearly knows they are physically or psychologically harming another. Once they find out from their partner that they are being hurtful, they purposefully use that information to continue to hurt their partner. That, in my opinion, is the definition of an abuser.

Someone who has a mental/developmental disorder and has a temper that they have difficulty controlling or difficulty understanding social expectations may display abusive behavior but may not, in fact, be an abuser. Someone who comes from an abusive background and knows no other way to behave may exhibit abusive behavior but may not be an abuser if they had therapy and/or education about more appropriate behavior.

I agree that two people just may be a bad fit for each other. They bring out the worse in each other but when they are with other people, their behavior and conduct would be considered within the norm. Every case is different. There are always grey areas.

[Redsunflower]

This thread has been very sad and difficult for me to read but a very worthwhile conversation to have. I've appreciated everyone's honesty so much, and had a few memories of my own stirred up.

It's also got me thinking about why abuse can be so difficult to identify. There's been a lot written about power and control and certainly, abusers try to take these things from their partners. Hugs to everyone who has experienced this.

I believe that part of the difficulty is that all relationships have an element of power and control in them. We are all entitled to be in charge of our own lives, then when we get close to someone, there needs to be some compromise. You have someone else to consider. Your partner may want you to do things you don't particularly want to, like visiting their relatives at Christmas, for example. You will also have some expectations of them. Where one of you doesn't fulfil expectations, then there will be conflict. And conflict can be scary for anyone.

When an abuser gets going this conflict can arise at any time, about anything, out of something or nothing, and in some ways that's easier to identify. But in the daily stuff of life, it can be more tricky. How does your partner cope with a little disappointment? Do they talk to you about feeling let down? Are you allowed to make amends for that? Do you know you're still cared for? Do they huff for a couple of hours and get over it? Do they stop speaking to you for a couple of days? Do they withhold love, affection, sex? Do they shout at you, try to intimidate you? Hit you? Throw you out of your home? In the midst of conflict it can be hard to keep a level head about what's acceptable or not. And oh so easy to explain away.

I believe we need to trust our instincts and our gut to try and keep ourselves safe. Too much thinking can be detrimental. You may want to ask your partner questions and to try and understand, but how important is that really when you're feeling worthless, bruised, homeless? Does it truly matter why your partner is doing these things when the impact on you is exactly the same? Even if we can't acknowledge abuse, we need to leave if our relationship feels like shit.

I would like to think I know how to keep myself safe but that's not entirely true. I believe we are all at risk of abuse, and that the need to feel loved and cared for is so great that we can often overlook the abuse to get the good bits. This makes me so sad.

I hope we can all manage to make more loving and caring relationships than this.

Rxx

[Gemme]

Snow, I agree that most females have experienced abuse by the traditional definition of the concept at the hands of other people at some point in their lives.

What I was referring to was this:


About 17-45% of lesbians report having been the victim of a least one act of physical violence perpetrated by a lesbian partner (1,5,6,13). Types of physical abuse named by more than 10% of participants in one study included:

Disrupting other’s eating or sleeping habits

Pushing or shoving, driving recklessly to punish, and slapping, kicking, hitting, or biting (11).

Sexual abuse by a woman partner has been reported by up to 50% of lesbians (12).

Psychological abuse has been reported as occurring at least one time by 24% to 90% of lesbians (1,5,6,11,14).


These are stats for lesbian-lesbian relationships. Not for women in general. At least one incident of psychological abuse in a relationship by 24-90% of lesbians? Sexual abuse 50% of the time?

This is when I feel like I am living in a parallel universe.




It doesn't read like sexual abuse occurs up to 50% of the time to me. It reads that sexual abuse occurred in UP TO 50% of the cases that sexual abuse from a woman partner was documented. We all know that of the cases that are documented, there are far more that are not. Of the documented cases, there could easily be documented incidents up to half of the reported cases. That doesn't mean that it happened 50% of the time. It would only have to happen at least once in up to 50% of the cases documented.

I haven't gone back so forgive me if I didn't see this but was there a clear and definitive definition of sexual abuse for these stats? Was it including only times when a physical assault actually occurred or does it include times that threats of assault were made but perhaps no definitive, physical assault occurred? Did it include sexual harrassment as sexual abuse? Does it include the fucked up mind games that people often play with one another?

I had a friend in high school who was physically assaulted in a very specific and graphic way. After that happened once, just the threat of that happening again created the same reaction as did the initial assault, so even though.....say the tenth time it happened (the threat), she was not physically touched but the threat of it happening again was very much a possibility.....does that still count as sexual abuse? Is it strictly psychological abuse at that point? For me, I see the various forms of abuse like links on a chain. They are connected and it's difficult to suffer one without another.

As for the psychological abuse stat, I fully believe it. Again, it's all about the definition for me. What you may consider fine or just rude behavior, I might consider abusive behavior. We all view from our individual perspectives and unless there's a straightforward definition of what is being measured, then we're going to have that gray area.

[Teddybear]

Some people just do this for fun. Some because they honestly don't know any better and it's simply a pattern from their childhood. Since that movie, a psychological term came about called 'gaslighting' in which one partner slowly and methodically picks apart at the sanity of another by implanting false information and misdirecting to make the other person questions themselves so much, they doubt their own sanity. This makes one of the partner even more vulnerable and easy to control. When they finally blow up or have a breakdown, the abuser can say, "See, I told you she was nuts." It's the most isolating, horrible, mentally-torturing feeling on earth. I've been through it.



I want to address the issues you brought up but I want to do it separately.

Gaslighting is something that is a slow and methodically way to abuse someone. It takes someone who is really dark to put another on this path. I have followed some down that rabbit hole. It HELL to crawl back out and if and when your able to your NOT the person you were before. Its easy to follow the person you love down this path. It isnt like so outrageous that you can spot it a mile away.

It starts off very slowly and deliberate. They test the waters. It could be something as little as moving your keys from where you usually put them at the end of the day to asking where something is that was never there to start with. By time your so deep into it you dont know if your living in reality or in a dream world.

I used to set up little test for myself and didnt tell anyone but I wrote them down so I could check to make sure or I would take pictures with my camera. It was a way for me to know where to find what I was looking for in the am. I found out in short order that I wasnt "losing" my thing they were being moved on purpose. Im surprised that it took me months to finally say enough is enough.

By time I had left these relationships I knew that I had been played but couldnt figure out WHY? Im still asking myself that and I think I may for a long time to come.

I know that some ppl love to do this to others I just cant figure out why and where they really get the "balls" to do it.

Im sure there are others that will comment on this also and I look forward to reading them

[Nic]

Damn. Used to love that movie. Can't really look at it the same way now. What a shitty thing to do to someone.

[Teddybear]

I also want to address the "abuser versus victim" topic. I've only once considered myself a victim. I don't anymore. I'm somebody who unfortunately gets into a pattern of abusive relationships. I'm no innocent angel either.

I was a VICTIM to my father and to the others I was PREY.

The abusers HUNT us. They set their sights on us and trap us. I like others i think use the word victim cause it is acceptable and it is how people outside looking in see us.

I have or I am working on taking that target OFF of me. It isnt an easy road by no means but its one Im traveling.

[Teddybear]

I'm no innocent angel either. However, I can say with complete honesty that I have never in my life gone out of my way to harm somebody in a premeditated fashion. Have I reacted out of anger, fear, frustration or confusion in the moment? Yes. Absolutely. Has my inability read and understand social cues hurt people indirectly without my being aware of it? Yes. Absolutely. And once I figured out what I had been doing, it hit me like a ton of bricks and I spent several months tracking people down to apologize to them. (Which, unfortunately, got me back together with my ex).

I think there is something to be said about intent. (Yes, it's my favorite word.) An abuser, in my opinion, is someone who clearly knows they are physically or psychologically harming another. Once they find out from their partner that they are being hurtful, they purposefully use that information to continue to hurt their partner. That, in my opinion, is the definition of an abuser.

Someone who has a mental/developmental disorder and has a temper that they have difficulty controlling or difficulty understanding social expectations may display abusive behavior but may not, in fact, be an abuser. Someone who comes from an abusive background and knows no other way to behave may exhibit abusive behavior but may not be an abuser if they had therapy and/or education about more appropriate behavior.

I agree that two people just may be a bad fit for each other. They bring out the worse in each other but when they are with other people, their behavior and conduct would be considered within the norm. Every case is different. There are always grey areas.

I too have NEVER set out to hurt anyone intently that doesnt mean that I havent or wont in the future. However I have to say that being human we all hurt each other in some way or another. But that doesnt meet the definition of abuse. We hurt others feelings when we may or may not be who or what they want us to be.

Being with someone with mental health issues is a horse of a different color. I for one understand that no matter what they try sometimes they just cant control it.

I was with someone who refused to get help for her mental illness. She is now and Im thankful for that. We have just recently reconnected and the change in her is amazing. I know we wont ever be a couple again cause she will stop getting the help she needs.

INTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AN abuser is FULL of intent. Now to hear them tell it they arent doing anything wrong nor have they.

Im not going to go down that road. To me they get their kicks by DESTROYING their prey

[Kobi]

It doesn't read like sexual abuse occurs up to 50% of the time to me. It reads that sexual abuse occurred in UP TO 50% of the cases that sexual abuse from a woman partner was documented. We all know that of the cases that are documented, there are far more that are not. Of the documented cases, there could easily be documented incidents up to half of the reported cases. That doesn't mean that it happened 50% of the time. It would only have to happen at least once in up to 50% of the cases documented.

I haven't gone back so forgive me if I didn't see this but was there a clear and definitive definition of sexual abuse for these stats? Was it including only times when a physical assault actually occurred or does it include times that threats of assault were made but perhaps no definitive, physical assault occurred? Did it include sexual harrassment as sexual abuse? Does it include the fucked up mind games that people often play with one another?





Gemme, you ask some very pertinent questions and show some excellent critical thinking skills.

Perhaps if you actually read it, some of those would have been answered and even more generated.

Same goes for the math. Read it. Then venture an opinion based on fact, not arbitrary conjecture.

Would love to discuss it further, once we are working with the same data.

Have a nice day :)

[Gemme]

Gemme, you ask some very pertinent questions and show some excellent critical thinking skills.

Perhaps if you actually read it, some of those would have been answered and even more generated.

Same goes for the math. Read it. Then venture an opinion based on fact, not arbitrary conjecture.

Would love to discuss it further, once we are working with the same data.

Have a nice day :)



Kobi, your response feels dismissive and condescending. The pat on the head for my 'critical thinking skills' especially.

I will read Snowy's post that she contributed to the thread to see if there are, in fact, definitive descriptions for what the study considers to be sexual abuse and perhaps I will find the answers to my questions.

Having said that, you completely missed the point I was making in regard to your response to Snowy. I don't feel you're reading the statistics properly. They are absolutely within reason. I'm fine with leaving it as an agree to disagree thing, however.

Have a nice day. :)

[*Anya*]

Impact on Children

A study published in the November 2003 issue of Child Abuse & Neglect found that children exposed to abuse on their mothers -- but not mistreated themselves -- also display increased behavior problems. The research was compiled by the University of Washington-Seattle and the Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center. The study surveyed 167 Seattle women, all of whom had children between 2- and 17 years old.

Each woman had police-reported or court-reported intimate-partner violence such as physical, psychological or sexual abuse. Each woman also filled out child behavior checklists by phone or mail. Researchers considered the surveyed child to be abused if any report triggered an investigation -- regardless of the findings of that investigation. This definition allows a "more sensitive measure" of mistreatment, and takes the difficulties of prosecuting abuse cases into account, according to the report. Investigators then compared the survey results from a Seattle sample of children with a nationally representative sample of children used to develop the checklist. The Child Behavior Checklist included questions on internalizing behaviors (depressive, withdrawn or anxious behavior) and externalizing behaviors (aggressive or delinquent behaviors).

The results were stronger among the children who had been abused -- but those only exposed to their mothers' abuse were also affected -- they were 60 percent more likely to show externalizing behaviors. They were 40 percent more likely to test in the borderline to clinical range for total behavioral problems.

(Source: University of Washington-Seattle)
Children who suffer family violence are at risk of perpetrating domestic abuse themselves once they reach adulthood, finds to a study that followed over five hundred families for 20 years.

Researchers at Columbia University say three factors are the strongest predictors: "serious behavior problems in adolescence, exposure to domestic violence, and power punishments by the parents—harsh discipline.” Being subjected to physical abuse as a child was most likely to connect to violent romantic relationships later in life. The study found no gender difference among the violent. Both men and women are equally likely to commit acts of physical aggression. More than 20 percent of both genders reported being violent with their partner; 5 percent of this violence brought injury to the partner.

Researchers at Columbia first contacted 543 randomly selected children back in 1975. They, along with their parents, were interviewed in 1983, 1985 and 1991. The final survey, done in 1999, asked about aggressive behavior, romantic history and recent life changes.

(SOURCE: August 2003 issue of the Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology)
Children under the age of 12 resided in 43 percent of the households in which domestic violence was reported between 1993 and 1998.

(Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). May 2000. Intimate Partner Violence. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice.)
Slightly more than half of female victims of intimate violence live in households with children under the age of 12.

(US Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics Factbook: Violence by Intimates, March 1998)
Boys who have witnessed partner violence are much more likely to become batterers in their adult relationships than boys who have not had exposure to partner violence in their families. The data is mixed for girls.

(Hotaling and Sugarman, 1996)
A child's exposure to the father abusing the mother is the strongest risk factor for transmitting violent behavior from one generation to the next.

(Report of the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family, APA, 1996)
Children exposed to partner violence exhibit symptoms similar to children who are physically and sexually abused, including the perpetuation of violence.

(Davidson, 1995)
In a national study of more than 6,000 American families, 50% of the men who frequently assaulted their wives also frequently abused their children.

(Murray A Strauss, Richard J. Gelles, and Christine Smith. Physical Violence in American Families; Risk Factors and Adaptations to Violence in 8,145 Families (New Brunswick: Transaction Publishers, 1990), 407-409)
Men who as children witnessed their parents' domestic violence were twice as likely to abuse their own wives than sons of nonviolent parents.

(Murray A. Straus et al., Physical Violence in American Families: Risk Factors and Adaptations to Violence in 8,145 Families. New Brunswick: Transaction Publishers, 1990)

75% of boys who witnessed domestic violence have been found to have demonstrable behavior problems.

(Jaffe, et al., 1987)
Children exposed to partner violence condoned it to resolve relationship conflicts more readily than did control groups.

(Jaffe, Wilson, and Wolfe, 1986)
Between 3.3 and 10 million children witness domestic violence in their home each year.

(Carlson, 1984)
Studies show that children are being physically abused in approximately half the families where the mother is a known victim of domestic assault. Similarly, studies show that mothers are being battered in approximately half the families where her child is a known victim of physical abuse.

(Jeffrey L. Edleson, PhD, The Overlap Between Child Maltreatment and Woman Abuse)

http://www.caepv.org/getinfo/facts_stats.php?factsec=10

[Rockinonahigh]

When I was a kid I had this friend that was so terrified of her father it was unreal,he was the most abusive mean s.o.b.I ever knew.She had three brothers and a sister that felt the same way,the older brother was so much like the old man that he didn't catch fall out but the rest of them did.Once her younger brothers skipped school one day,they were 12 & 14 at the time,when the old man found out about it he beat both of them bad enough to put them both in the hospitial for a while one of the boys was hurt so bad he never was the same again.Mentaly his mind ended up at about age 8,he was choked so bad it damaged his vocal cords to the point he could barely speak,the other brother had to have his face reconstructed bit by bit over a few years but he left home as soon as he turned 18.The two girls either married or just left home.Where was the mother during all this?Well she just told anyone who ask her about the issue hat he was the father and had the right to make sure the kids behaved by whatever means he wanted,everyone knew she was scared of him cause she got her share of the hits as well.Back then we didn't have laws like we do now cause the police did a investagation on the matter but nothing came of it.When the old man died there wasn't a hand full at the funeral.I will never figure out how or why people didn't do something but it was the way of the times,if he had killed one of them he would have been in jail but only for that.

[Kobi]

Kobi, your response feels dismissive and condescending. The pat on the head for my 'critical thinking skills' especially.

I will read Snowy's post that she contributed to the thread to see if there are, in fact, definitive descriptions for what the study considers to be sexual abuse and perhaps I will find the answers to my questions.

Having said that, you completely missed the point I was making in regard to your response to Snowy. I don't feel you're reading the statistics properly. They are absolutely within reason. I'm fine with leaving it as an agree to disagree thing, however.

Have a nice day. :)


Gemme, I wasnt intending to be dismissive, condescending, or patting anything. You were asking the same questions I was asking myself after reading it.

I see conclusions and I am trying to figure out how they got there.

It is a compilation of studies. Did each study use the same definition or were there different definitions? Did each study touch on all the potential areas of abuse or only specific ones? Were the definitions of abuse the same or reasonably compatible? What was the sample size? Was the sample size statistically significant? Were the statistics based on occurrences of events or the number of people who experienced the event?

I was looking thru the studies used, most of which are from the 1990's. I cant find anything current or updated. I find lots of books but no studies.

As for the statistics, we can agree to disagree but I'm thinking once you have read it, we would be better able to discuss it. It appears, they are talking about the number of people who have experienced something abusive not the number of times. To say up to 50% could mean one person would mean your sample size was 2 people. Yes?

Because it is a compilation, I expect to see variations i.e. 24-90% of the lesbians surveyed, depending on which study, reported at least one undefined act of psychological abuse. That's a huge variation. Is it statistically significant? or it that indicative of something else?

Critical thinking is a good thing.

Feel free to pm me if you want to discuss it further. I am interested in what you think about it and why.

[Dude]

Public humiliation is a big sign ( for me) :freetoaster:

[StrongButch]

I am only speaking for myself.I find a therapist can help also dont speak to abuser. If you have unfinished business get a friend to talk to them have no contact Take your life back. Move on with your life dont let them take up space in your head.

[Girl_On_Fire]

I think that talking about warning signs of abusive relationships could also talk about patterns instead of just "what to look out for to avoid an abuser". It helps to also think about yourself in this pattern.

For example: What about warning signs within you? If you've been in a few abusive relationships, how do you change? Do you notice that as soon as you get into certain relationships that your behavior becomes something you don't feel comfortable with or don't recognize? Do you find yourself agreeing to things you never would all in the name of "love"? Does the person you're with perpetuate and encourage this?

I think it's just as important for targets of abuse to look at their own behavior. This is something I have been doing intensely for the past year. For example, when someone is not angry and everything is going fine and suddenly, just from one 30 second exchange, they're snapping at me, I freeze. I can't breathe. I can't say anything. I'm stunned into silence. My brain is whirling. I don't know what to do. It's called selective mutism and it happens to me because sudden displays of anger are terrifying to me.

As a child I would often be scolded, reprimanded, shaken, smacked, and verbally abused because I couldn't pay attention or because I had unknowingly said or done something socially inappropriate. Now, when it happens to me as an adult, my child-self still responds by shutting down. This is something that I am in control of and can work to fix.

If I am able to successfully fix this by trying to talk to the person calmly and ask them to explain what I've done to offend them or speak up for myself if I'm certain I'm being spoken to an inappropriate way, it will go a long way in my not just "going along with something" because I lack the social skills to know if this behavior is inappropriate or not.

I'm a very diplomatic person. I like to talk things out and break everything down step-by-step so I clearly understand what it is that triggered or upset my partner so I don't end up inadvertently repeating the same mistake. While some people do not like to be this specific, my new "dating rule" is this: After a few months of dating, the person will have to understand that this is the only way I can connect my behavior with their reaction.

If the person I'm seeing can't help me do that, we can't see each other. I will not again be with somebody who does not have the patience to do this. In making this decision, I am saying that being with someone with low patience, who doesn't believe the way my brain works, or who has a serious temper is not the right type of person for me. That way, it takes the "abusive" title off the person and just puts it on the behavior/interactions.

Looking at our own defenses and the way our bodies and brains are responding to the people we date can also be a good warning sign. Our gut instincts are telling us something. If we are constantly being triggered by a partner, we can use it as a chance to grow in therapy but continuing in the relationship is probably not the best idea.

[Teddybear]

I think that talking about warning signs of abusive relationships could also talk about patterns instead of just "what to look out for to avoid an abuser". It helps to also think about yourself in this pattern.

For example: What about warning signs within you? If you've been in a few abusive relationships, how do you change? Do you notice that as soon as you get into certain relationships that your behavior becomes something you don't feel comfortable with or don't recognize? Do you find yourself agreeing to things you never would all in the name of "love"? Does the person you're with perpetuate and encourage this?

I think it's just as important for targets of abuse to look at their own behavior. This is something I have been doing intensely for the past year. For example, when someone is not angry and everything is going fine and suddenly, just from one 30 second exchange, they're snapping at me, I freeze. I can't breathe. I can't say anything. I'm stunned into silence. My brain is whirling. I don't know what to do. It's called selective mutism and it happens to me because sudden displays of anger are terrifying to me.

As a child I would often be scolded, reprimanded, shaken, smacked, and verbally abused because I couldn't pay attention or because I had unknowingly said or done something socially inappropriate. Now, when it happens to me as an adult, my child-self still responds by shutting down. This is something that I am in control of and can work to fix.

If I am able to successfully fix this by trying to talk to the person calmly and ask them to explain what I've done to offend them or speak up for myself if I'm certain I'm being spoken to an inappropriate way, it will go a long way in my not just "going along with something" because I lack the social skills to know if this behavior is inappropriate or not.

I'm a very diplomatic person. I like to talk things out and break everything down step-by-step so I clearly understand what it is that triggered or upset my partner so I don't end up inadvertently repeating the same mistake. While some people do not like to be this specific, my new "dating rule" is this: After a few months of dating, the person will have to understand that this is the only way I can connect my behavior with their reaction.

If the person I'm seeing can't help me do that, we can't see each other. I will not again be with somebody who does not have the patience to do this. In making this decision, I am saying that being with someone with low patience, who doesn't believe the way my brain works, or who has a serious temper is not the right type of person for me. That way, it takes the "abusive" title off the person and just puts it on the behavior/interactions.

Looking at our own defenses and the way our bodies and brains are responding to the people we date can also be a good warning sign. Our gut instincts are telling us something. If we are constantly being triggered by a partner, we can use it as a chance to grow in therapy but continuing in the relationship is probably not the best idea.

I have been thinking about this post and I am not really sure if I have any answers for ME or anyone else. I am going to try and explain what is working for ME.

I have now made a rule that whomever I am to date, if I date anyone again, they will know that I need to be able to resolve conflict. It is a mutual thing, one person doesnt get to say ok I have said what I need to say its done and walk away. Im just as important and I need to be able to voice what and how Im feeling about whatever issue has come up.

I am willing to have time so long as its a set time. I need to be able to get answers not just questions.

It is hard for me not to put the other person first and Im working on that. I have found that I do this way to much and I get left out in the cold so to speak.

I have tried to have "I feel" talk and some how it gets all twisted around to where its all about them and how IM doing xyz to them and how Im doing so and so to hurt them. To me communicate is the key.

Im a talker maybe too much but at least Im not holding it in and making anyone guess what is going on. I know I will shut down when I try to talk to who Im dating and repeatedly get told NOT now. I have asked many times for us(whomever I was dating at the time) to lets make time for said conversations only to be told over and over again that they didnt want to talk about it it wasnt important to them to just drop it. I can tell you that if there is an issue with one person in the relationship there is an issue with both ppl.

Im working on figuring out how to approach subjects with whomever Im with. Let me tell you that is not easy.

I know that I must respect them and their wishes however my needs need to b met also.

I need to sometimes put me first which is like telling the sun NOT to shine during the daytime. Funny we cant tell the moon that we can see it during the day and nite. I dont see myself as the moon it isnt all about me but I want to be the sun and shine when its time and I want whom Im with to be the sun also when its their time to shine.

I am trying to take the target off me my KNOWING who and what I want what I am and am NOT willing to do in a relationship this is a huge step and I hope I can and will be able to take it in time

[~ocean]

~ listen to warnings from friends or others who know them ~ watch for the patterns of their alter ego's ~ their negativity towards you and anyone who gets close to you ~ lies, lies, and more lies. acts of violence when no one is looking ~ making up storys on who they really are in a social enviorment ~ you start making excuses to family and friends cause you loved them ~ biggest mistake u can make ,believing the storys when u question what tou have been hearing ~ when you approach the situation, you become their enemy ~ reversal of guilt is a very scarey situation you have put yourself in ~ esp. when they don't take responsibility for their own actions ~ you begin to realize there has been no truth to anything you have shared with this person ~ its not just abuse anymore , now you are dealing with someone who needs professional help ~ don't go it alone ~ don't hide and stay quiet cause they don't approve ~ let it all out ~ RUN to your friends and family ~ don't leave yourself in a vulnerable situation with that person again ~ remember its their problem not you ~ theres nothing wrong with you ~ and you can't fix them ~ all the love and devotion will not fix their problem ~ don't become their enabler, no matter if its drug ,alcohol, financial, or availability to abuse u further ~ turn to someone, they already know ~

[Sweet Bliss]

The books available on your topic of reverting to childhood coping skills that might help your/ our understanding are the ones by Alice Miller especially "The body never lies", or "For your own good".


Brace yourself before reading.

John Bradshaw has wonderful explanations in his books. When he was on PBS talking about his studies into the human experience he talked about pediphiles and what characteristics they looked for in children when hunting new victims.

Many said " the most obedient child"...... I awoke 14 hours after hearing that statement, face down on the floor. You see, I have no conscious memory of my childhood. Perhaps only my body remembers. I have not yet been brave enough to find out.

"The Body Remembers " by Babette Rothschild is I believe a book about how to heal. I have not read it yet. It does have plenty of good reviews.

Look into "Somatics".

[TruTexan]

I have to remind myself that my gut will always tell me the truth, it will NEVER lie to me. I wish I had listened in the past, I could have avoided a lot of what I have gone t through. When your gut is talking to you, Please Please listen to it, always.
I am going to try and make a list of things I needed to head warning to from the past, so not to discount them in the future. I think this will help to keep things fresh in my mind and help me to see those red flags I've missed before. Hmm, something to discuss with my therapist.

One particular thing that stands out tonight in my head is the fact that I didn't pay closer attention to someone that did a lot of REFLECTION towards me. That is when someone blames YOU for their own problems and behaviors. Very similar to Gaslighting.

[Girl_On_Fire]

I think a really strong sign of a potentially-abusive relationship is one party wanting to move much faster than the other. It's almost as though they're trying to sell a piece of limited-edition jewelry. "Act now or soon everything will be sold out!"

Soon after meeting they tell you they're in love with you, you're their soul mate, they've had many past lives with you and can remember them in detail, they've dreamed of you for years, etc. They practically trip over themselves to worship at your feet and it becomes overwhelming. They want to move the relationship along quickly and when you question this fact amid the dizziness of the affair, their negative reaction toward the perceived rejection is almost as strong as their proposed "love" for you.

I'm not saying that love at first sight can't happen but when one partner pushes to move in together, start a family, share finances, etc. and they refuse to take the concern that their partner may not yet be ready for this type of commitment into consideration, it might be a red flag.

Another one, and I've seen this one a few times in my own personal life and in the life of others, is escalating the above with claims of disease, financial hardship, and unsafe environment. If you don't come to them, move in with them, let them move in with you, send them money or help them out in some way, they act as though something terrible will befall them. If this happens, it's important to take a step back and ask yourself, 'What did they do before me?' 'How did they make it?'

Everybody experiences disease and hardship but if you're just starting a relationship with them, why are they dumping that all on you and expecting you to rescue them?

[TruTexan]

Well, I have a new therapist and I see her the day after Christmas. Working on those red flags and patterns is going to very interesting, along with working on Myself and all that stuff that goes with having a Broken Picker. I'm glad I have a new therapist to work with, I just hope she is accepting of someone that is lesbian and talks about my past relationships being abusive, gaslighted, etc. etc etc. It's going to be a whole new ballgame to fix my broken picker.

[Rockinonahigh]

Well, I have a new therapist and I see her the day after Christmas. Working on those red flags and patterns is going to very interesting, along with working on Myself and all that stuff that goes with having a Broken Picker. I'm glad I have a new therapist to work with, I just hope she is accepting of someone that is lesbian and talks about my past relationships being abusive, gaslighted, etc. etc etc. It's going to be a whole new ballgame to fix my broken picker.


Tex,just take it one small step at the time,one thing for sure there will be thing pop up that will surprise you.

[StrongButch]

Abusers are driven by anger. Many seek revenge. No one deserves to be abused . Walk away and know there is something better out there waiting for you.

[Bad_boi]

Abusers are driven by anger. Many seek revenge. No one deserves to be abused . Walk away and know there is something better out there waiting for you.

Sometimes it is hard to walk away. If only it were that simple.

In my case I didn't understand that I was being verbally/mentally abused. I had always thought abuse was physical and not mental. I was with someone who was very controlling to the point were it was her pushing her OCD on me and getting mad when I didn't do things right and treating me poorly for it.

As for physical violence I have only been slapped once by a girlfriend. I didn't do anything about it. I wanted to but I didn't know what. I should have walked out then and there but I didn't. I'm not sure why I didn't do anything about it.

Thirdly I would like to point out something I learned recently. All my life when I saw abusive relationships I wondered why the abused didn't just leave or fight back or something. One of my friends pointed out to me that often that isn't an option because abusers can be crazy and try to go after and "punish" the abused for trying to resist. Its a fucked up situation all together.

[Teddybear]

Abusers are driven by anger. Many seek revenge. No one deserves to be abused . Walk away and know there is something better out there waiting for you.

SB

I have hoped someone else would have addressed this but since no one did I will. I hope I don't offend anyone.

Not all abusers r motivated by anger. Just like rape ISN'T about sec. Its power over someone else. They thrive in it. Some will build u up one minute just to brutality tear u down the next.

Some set u up. Some have u b responsible for xyz and when u do if they all over u because u did it. Your always in a dammed if u do dammed if u don't situation.

Walking away is SO easy to say. The prey is trapped all they can see is the cage that they have/are in. It takes a lot of COURAGE to break free and do the work on yourself to NIT repeat the cycle.

OK I want to say more but I have to get back to work.

[Bad_boi]

I can see what Strong Butch means and their heart is in the right place.

[*Anya*]

Abusers are driven by anger. Many seek revenge. No one deserves to be abused . Walk away and know there is something better out there waiting for you.

Sometimes it is hard to walk away. If only it were that simple.

In my case I didn't understand that I was being verbally/mentally abused. I had always thought abuse was physical and not mental. I was with someone who was very controlling to the point were it was her pushing her OCD on me and getting mad when I didn't do things right and treating me poorly for it.

As for physical violence I have only been slapped once by a girlfriend. I didn't do anything about it. I wanted to but I didn't know what. I should have walked out then and there but I didn't. I'm not sure why I didn't do anything about it.

Thirdly I would like to point out something I learned recently. All my life when I saw abusive relationships I wondered why the abused didn't just leave or fight back or something. One of my friends pointed out to me that often that isn't an option because abusers can be crazy and try to go after and "punish" the abused for trying to resist. Its a fucked up situation all together.

SB

I have hoped someone else would have addressed this but since no one did I will. I hope I don't offend anyone.

Not all abusers r motivated by anger. Just like rape ISN'T about sec. Its power over someone else. They thrive in it. Some will build u up one minute just to brutality tear u down the next.

Some set u up. Some have u b responsible for xyz and when u do if they all over u because u did it. Your always in a dammed if u do dammed if u don't situation.

Walking away is SO easy to say. The prey is trapped all they can see is the cage that they have/are in. It takes a lot of COURAGE to break free and do the work on yourself to NIT repeat the cycle.

OK I want to say more but I have to get back to work.

The anger is only part of the cycle of violence. Power and control is also part of the cycle of violence.

Just leave?

If only it were that easy.

I was physically abused by my ex-husband before, during and after my two pregnancies.

Where do you go if you have no family or friends close by? Have babies? I know that I went to the police and they did not arrest him.

Even today, with stricter laws about domestic violence and shelters for women and children-the psychological after-effects make many women (and men) almost paralyzed emotionally. Because I was tied in with him financially and emotionally and because of my children-when the making up and calm stage happened: I wanted to believe-needed to believe; that it would never happen again.

But, of course, it always did.

This cycle below simplifies a very complex pattern of behavior:

"Cycle of Violence

Incident

Any type of abuse occurs (physical/sexual/emotional)

Tension Building

Abuser starts to get angry
Abuse may begin
There is a breakdown of communication
Victim feels the need to keep the abuser calm
Tension becomes too much
Victim feels like they are 'walking on egg shells'
Making-Up

Abuser may apologize for abuse
Abuser may promise it will never happen again
Abuser may blame the victim for causing the abuse
Abuser may deny abuse took place or say it was not as bad as the victim claims
Calm

Abuser acts like the abuse never happened
Physical abuse may not be taking place
Promises made during 'making-up' may be met
Victim may hope that the abuse is over
Abuser may give gifts to victim

The cycle can happen hundreds of times in an abusive relationship. Each stage lasts a different amount of time in a relationship. The total cycle can take anywhere from a few hours to a year or more to complete.

It is important to remember that not all domestic violence relationships fit the cycle. Often, as time goes on, the 'making-up' and 'calm' stages disappear."

http://www.domesticviolence.org/cycle-of-violence/

If you are in danger, please use a safer computer, or call 911, your local hotline, or the U.S. National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 and TTY 1-800-787-3224.

[Bad_boi]

I think what is truly important is education, awareness and resources for this sort of thing.

Also education for men. We should raise young men to not become abusers and educate them on why this is wrong. On the other side of the same coin we must also educate men on what to do if they become abused. The media shows men getting slapped buy women as funny when in real life it is not okay. Abuse is abuse. No matter if it is verbal or physical. It can have different severity but the bottom line is that it is wrong.

I would like to add this link from the Mayo Clinic about abused males because I feel that it is not often spoken about and this article mentions Gay/Trans in it.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/domestic-violence-against-men/MY00557

[Teddybear]

I think what is truly important is education, awareness and resources for this sort of thing.

Also education for men. We should raise young men to not become abusers and educate them on why this is wrong. On the other side of the same coin we must also educate men on what to do if they become abused. The media shows men getting slapped buy women as funny when in real life it is not okay. Abuse is abuse. No matter if it is verbal or physical. It can have different severity but the bottom line is that it is wrong.

I would like to add this link from the Mayo Clinic about abused males because I feel that it is not often spoken about and this article mentions Gay/Trans in it.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/domestic-violence-against-men/MY00557

Bad Boi

I changed the color of this one sentence just cause I want to ask you what you mean by it.

I agree with everything you have said here however is this 1 sentence suppose to imply that abuse towards men identified people is less sever then if it was done to a woman?

I just asking for clarity. I can tell you that the abuse I suffered was just as damming as it would be for a female identified person

[Bad_boi]

Bad Boi

I changed the color of this one sentence just cause I want to ask you what you mean by it.

I agree with everything you have said here however is this 1 sentence suppose to imply that abuse towards men identified people is less sever then if it was done to a woman?

I just asking for clarity. I can tell you that the abuse I suffered was just as damming as it would be for a female identified person

That is what I am getting at. A lot of people dismiss abuse against a male or masculine ID'd person. Men are often told to "suck it up" and "be a man" and all this other negative BS. Abuse is abuse no matter how severe it is or who the victim is. It is all wrong and we should focus our efforts to awareness, education and prevention.

[Kent]

That is what I am getting at. A lot of people dismiss abuse against a male or masculine ID'd person. Men are often told to "suck it up" and "be a man" and all this other negative BS. Abuse is abuse no matter how severe it is or who the victim is. It is all wrong and we should focus our efforts to awareness, education and prevention.

Well said, Bad_boi.

[Stronghealer]

https://www.google.com/search?q=manalive+meeting+hamish&oq=manalive+meeting+hamish&aqs=chrome.0.69i59.9100j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8




If you have grown up in an abusive household
If you have been a victim of abusive
If you are violent ( violence is not only physical)

Please click on the link at the top of this post.
Mr. Hamish Sinclair, has not only helped men in prison : he helps women, adolescents,queers,the kink/bdsm community, survivors,and the list goes on.
Manalive has been called : humanalive, womenalive,and queeralive...( thers also a new programs at the famous Glide Memorial Church in SF : http://www.glide.org/page.aspx?pid=392


If you are interested in the Step 1 manual, I will send you the pdf file-contact me here.






.

[*Anya*]

https://www.google.com/search?q=manalive+meeting+hamish&oq=manalive+meeting+hamish&aqs=chrome.0.69i59.9100j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8


If you have grown up in an abusive household
If you have been a victim of abusive
If you are violent ( violence is not only physical)

Please click on the link at the top of this post.
Mr. Hamish Sinclair, has not only helped men in prison : he helps women, adolescents,queers,the kink/bdsm community, survivors,and the list goes on.
Manalive has been called : humanalive, womenalive,and queeralive...( thers also a new programs at the famous Glide Memorial Church in SF : http://www.glide.org/page.aspx?pid=392


If you are interested in the Step 1 manual, I will send you the pdf file-contact me here.


.

Abuse is a critically important subject but there is no need for such large font.

It is shouting at us, not talking.

[Stronghealer]

Anya,

I am sorry my use of large font made you feel that way.
My experience of using large font was to emphasize the importance of a subject I am passionate about.-Strong


.

[fatallyblonde]

an abusive relationship is the reason I've stayed away from the scene the last couple of years... I was really fucked up after it and needed a long time to heal.

The person I was with was an FTM guy who moved around and changed his name a lot... as we learned later because he left a trail of destruction in his wake...

I don't want to go too much into the really personal stuff but here's some advice:

Watch out for anyone who idolises you and puts you on a pedastal! Abusive people often do this to their targets... it's because they don't really see you as human, just a projection of their fantasy... so yeah they'll treat you like a queen at first but watch out when they actually comprehend that you are just a fallible human because then they will blame YOU for "deceiving" them and that's when the physical/verbal abuse will begin... although they will have been grooming you with their idolisation into a vulnerable state!

Look out for people who have shady backgrounds, move around a lot and change their name a lot... what are they running from...


Unfortunately statistics say that people who have been abused/assaulted are more likely to experience it again... I don't know why that it is... but I just want to remind survivors that it is never your fault... abusers are tricky, wily people who practice their techniques to manipulate and deceive you... you are not "stupid" if you find yourself in another abusive relationship after leaving one... even if you know what to look for, abusers are cunning and find ways around it... that's their whole thing... deception and manipulation... it is never your fault... you are never stupid or dumb or silly or weak or foolish... it is always the abuser's fault for making the choice to abuse...

[TruTexan]

I think that Emotional Manipulation is another form of abuse.
Have any of you ever dealt with this type of Manipulation before?

[ProfPacker]

not wanting to go into details but this relationship that I just left became more and more emotionally abusive as the years went on. As I try to remove myself from the dynamics the supposed change in the behavior would come but not for long. I grew up in a home with this type of abuse and was abused emotionally by my mother, so this felt all too familiar to me. I knew intellectually that I was destroying my life (shit, I studied the stuff) and was just about to leave when she said she wanted children. I did not feel like I could leave children in her care so I stayed. But, I did leave children in her care by the fact that she was their mother.

I left when I realized that staying was not "saving my kids" in fact I began to see them seeing me as the person that was contributing to the tension in the home. When I left, although they are conflicted about the change in family, it is such a relief to not have to protect them all the time from the rage. I have an entirely different relationship with my kids now. It is not perfect (nor will it ever be, nor would I want it to be) but we are calm, I am not brough tinto the fray by being told in front of them that I am a lousy parent, etc.

I have myself back and what I need to learn now is that it is my responsibility to not emotionally abuse myself anymore by gravitating towards those who would treat me like this.

It is a very treacherous place to be. No one should be blamed or blame themselves (as said above). If you leave and you feel their is danger, go to a local organization that can help you emotionally and legally and keep you safe.

If you are in NY State, they have the most comprehensive regulations. In NYS dv victims are a protected class, so that an employer does not have the right to know why you are taking off and if you do tell them you are a dv victim there are many safe guards to protect livelyhood, insurance and safety.

NYS OPV

[TruTexan]

I am learning in therapy that I've had a lot of manipulation and gaslighting done to me. I don't know how I just didn't see that, I guess because my father did it as well. I"m learning a lot in therapy and I feel much better going. I've also learned that my reactions were rational and normal for situations that were irrational; and when my ex called me crazy it was her gaslighting the situation and being emotionally abusive to me.

[CherylNYC]

I am learning in therapy that I've had a lot of manipulation and gaslighting done to me. I don't know how I just didn't see that, I guess because my father did it as well. I"m learning a lot in therapy and I feel much better going. I've also learned that my reactions were rational and normal for situations that were irrational; and when my ex called me crazy it was her gaslighting the situation and being emotionally abusive to me.

I watched a close friend get horribly emotionally abused by her then partner. Every single thing that nasty little twerp, (from now on to be identified as 'tnlt'), used to falsely accuse my wonderful friend of doing were things that tnlt was guilty of herself. Every. Single Thing. It worked well to keep my friend unbalanced and to distract her from the very obvious shortcomings of tnlt. I was especially active in pointing this out, but it only caused stress between my friend and I. She just had to keep living with the hurt until even her legendary loyalty was strained past the breaking point. I was thrilled when she finally tossed that baggage out. Ever since then I've noticed that emotional abusers almost always accuse their victims of doing exactly what they themselves have been doing.

Fast forward to my own recent experience with an emotional abuser. She accused me of being manipulative, among other things, when she was the one doing all the manipulating, etc. Now I almost feel as if I could write the script whenever one of my friends starts to tell me details about their emotionally abusive relationship.

[nycfem]

Received a report and giving participants in this thread a gentle reminder:
If you have an ex on the site and feel they were abusive, please don't post about them here.

[JDeere]

They change emotions uber fast and blame you for their problems!

Or they are physical when it is not warranted!

[NitroChrys_Butch]

Frequently in our lives, perhaps everyday, we encounter red flags warning us of potential problems or accidents. We may not always recognize the signs. However, more often than not, we may choose to ignore our intuition when it tells us that “something just isn’t right.”

Red flags often come in the form of feelings urging us to pause for a moment, listen to our intuition, and reconsider. We may even experience a “bad” feeling in our guts. This is a red flag letting us know that there may be a problem. We may not even know what the red flag is about. All we know is that the flag is trying to wave us in a different direction. We just have to pay attention and go another way. We may even wonder whether we are paranoid or imagining things. However, when we look back at a situation or relationship where there were red flags, it becomes easy to understand exactly what those warning signs meant. More often than not, a red flag is not a false warning. Rather, it is a way of informing us, through our own innate guidance system, that our path best lies elsewhere.

We may try to ignore the red flags waving our way, dismissing our unease as illogical. Yet it is always in our best interest to pay attention to them. For example, we may meet someone who outwardly seems perfect. They are intelligent, attractive, and charming. Yet, for some reason, being around them makes us feel uneasy. Any interactions we have with them are awkward and leave us feeling like there is something “off” about the situation. This is not necessarily a bad person. But, for some reason, the red flag that pops up is directing us away from them. Red flags are intended with our best interests at heart. No harm can ever come from stopping long enough to heed a red flag. Pay attention to any red flags that pop up.

[Glenn]

A Few First Warning Signs:
1.Idealization
2.Jealousy
3.Isolation
4.Devalue/Disregard of yours, and your family's needs, including their own family.
5.Too much self-importance/overly self-absorbed
6.Temper

[gotoseagrl]

Èxcellent post, spot-on. Thank you.Frequently in our lives, perhaps everyday, we encounter red flags warning us of potential problems or accidents. We may not always recognize the signs. However, more often than not, we may choose to ignore our intuition when it tells us that “something just isn’t right.”

Red flags often come in the form of feelings urging us to pause for a moment, listen to our intuition, and reconsider. We may even experience a “bad” feeling in our guts. This is a red flag letting us know that there may be a problem. We may not even know what the red flag is about. All we know is that the flag is trying to wave us in a different direction. We just have to pay attention and go another way. We may even wonder whether we are paranoid or imagining things. However, when we look back at a situation or relationship where there were red flags, it becomes easy to understand exactly what those warning signs meant. More often than not, a red flag is not a false warning. Rather, it is a way of informing us, through our own innate guidance system, that our path best lies elsewhere.

We may try to ignore the red flags waving our way, dismissing our unease as illogical. Yet it is always in our best interest to pay attention to them. For example, we may meet someone who outwardly seems perfect. They are intelligent, attractive, and charming. Yet, for some reason, being around them makes us feel uneasy. Any interactions we have with them are awkward and leave us feeling like there is something “off” about the situation. This is not necessarily a bad person. But, for some reason, the red flag that pops up is directing us away from them. Red flags are intended with our best interests at heart. No harm can ever come from stopping long enough to heed a red flag. Pay attention to any red flags that pop up.

[CherryWine]

It is very easy to miss the red flags when someone is wooing you and sweeping you off your feet like many abusive people tend to do so well in the beginning stages of a relationship. Initially they will try very hard to display what it is that they think you want to see. Their masks will always slip, though, and flashes of their true selves will be revealed. This could manifest in comments they make that may strike you as odd (i.e. “I am the most sane person that I know”). They might need constant affirmation that they are as awesome as they think themselves to be.

As the idealization stage of the relationship starts to wane, you will notice them starting to blow hot and cold…not unlike those Sour Patch Kids commercials! This is to keep your emotions unbalanced because it will be much easier for them to pull your puppet strings when you are left feeling confused. Their feathers may get ruffled at even the tiniest little thing that most normal people wouldn’t even remotely perceive as a criticism. Like others have already mentioned, projection is a huge red flag. It’s typical of an abuser to accuse you of doing exactly what they themselves have done. What they say and what they do won’t match up. They will lie…often.

It’s all about power and control to these emotionally void, empty shells of people. Unfortunately, it is usually kind-hearted, caring people who are targeted. They want what you have. It seems to be their very goal to suck dry your good nature and any positivity from your life leaving you a complete emotional wreck while they bask in their achievement and move on to their next prey. They are very sick puppies, indeed.

Before I came out, I spent seven years in my late teens/early twenties in an off-and-on relationship with a man whom I now suspect to be a malignant narcissist. It was a living hell. When I finally left him for good, all I could do was look back and think “How could I have let myself endure such cruelty for so long?” I was codependent, and it was almost as if he had me under a spell. The only good to come from that relationship was the lessons learned. I was able to move on and heal through a loving and caring relationship with my last partner. While I’m not immune to being sucked in to a love fest, it’s now very easy to see the red flags and to know when to run for the hills.

Pay attention to those cracks in the mask. Trust your gut.

[JDeere]

It is very easy to miss the red flags when someone is wooing you and sweeping you off your feet like many abusive people tend to do so well in the beginning stages of a relationship. Initially they will try very hard to display what it is that they think you want to see. Their masks will always slip, though, and flashes of their true selves will be revealed. This could manifest in comments they make that may strike you as odd (i.e. “I am the most sane person that I know”). They might need constant affirmation that they are as awesome as they think themselves to be.

As the idealization stage of the relationship starts to wane, you will notice them starting to blow hot and cold…not unlike those Sour Patch Kids commercials! This is to keep your emotions unbalanced because it will be much easier for them to pull your puppet strings when you are left feeling confused. Their feathers may get ruffled at even the tiniest little thing that most normal people wouldn’t even remotely perceive as a criticism. Like others have already mentioned, projection is a huge red flag. It’s typical of an abuser to accuse you of doing exactly what they themselves have done. What they say and what they do won’t match up. They will lie…often.

It’s all about power and control to these emotionally void, empty shells of people. Unfortunately, it is usually kind-hearted, caring people who are targeted. They want what you have. It seems to be their very goal to suck dry your good nature and any positivity from your life leaving you a complete emotional wreck while they bask in their achievement and move on to their next prey. They are very sick puppies, indeed.

Before I came out, I spent seven years in my late teens/early twenties in an off-and-on relationship with a man whom I now suspect to be a malignant narcissist. It was a living hell. When I finally left him for good, all I could do was look back and think “How could I have let myself endure such cruelty for so long?” I was codependent, and it was almost as if he had me under a spell. The only good to come from that relationship was the lessons learned. I was able to move on and heal through a loving and caring relationship with my last partner. While I’m not immune to being sucked in to a love fest, it’s now very easy to see the red flags and to know when to run for the hills.

Pay attention to those cracks in the mask. Trust your gut.

A lot of folks miss those cracks in the mask, I think maybe because love is blind or they just don't want to see it or something else. But good points!

[Allison W]

6.Temper

This one right here, is important, and important to analyse, and important to watch in the context of what a red flag is. Because while there are people out there who have a temper but have the skills to control it and understand that it's their responsibility to control it, there are also a whole lot of people who either don't know how to control it or don't think it's their responsibility to control it. If it's part of a worsening or already sinister pattern, it's not just a sign the relationship could go sour, it's a sign that your partner (or you, if you're the one with temper problems) could be actively dangerous. Like, hospital or morgue dangerous.

I say this as someone from a really bloody angry gene pool. Everyone in my family is an angry person, myself included, and hostility is also one of the more common side effects of my primary antidepressant, so I had to learn to control my temper because I don't care to turn out like some of my family members did.

[JustLovelyJenn]

Sometimes abuse can be very passive...

It can look like someone who refuses to make a decision and then complains about what happens. It can be present in silent disapproval as much as a screaming argument. The constant "its's fine" or "you're right, it must be my fault." All of these small and quiet things can just be another form of control. Another way to shape your responses to what they want. It can be hard to see abuse in any form, but there are just as many forms of abuse as their are abusers to use them... they never have to raise their voice or lay a hand on you to break you down completely.

[gotoseagrl]

This is so, so true. They can be more calculating than someone who does not hide when they have lost their temper (or sanity). The quiet ones who are more subtle with it are the ones who can trap you on the roller coaster for the longest time, because they always appear, especially to everyone else, to be harmless & like they always intend well and are doing nothing. While sometimes that can be true, more often it's not. The finger can always end up being pointed back at you because they "haven't lost their cool". They will even say sorry in an obligatory way that reminds you that you are still the one to blame underneath it all or you were always the cause of whatever problem. And you're also the reason it never changes - you don't give enough chances, time, blood, sweat, your last ounce of everything you had in you and so on. They wouldn't say, do or feel x,y,z if it didn't have something to do with you instead of recognizing their own behavior and actively taking responsibility to change it on their own. This is a real mind screw because they can appear to be sympathetic, while really being self-righteous at the same time. It can be a lot harder to run & stay away from emotional/mental abuse that is gradual and that over time warps your perception & distorts the appearance of the way things really are.

This can end up being so dangerous to one's confidence - believing in yourself when your gut is telling you something's wrong, self-worth - the person has you convinced they are the only one for you & you cannot do better because everyone else but them is bad, sanity - when you start to question yourself in ways you never do with anyone else or other healthy relationships, and so much more.

I really don't think there is enough awareness out there about these silent, but deadly types of relationships. The toxic "soulmates".

Sometimes abuse can be very passive...

It can look like someone who refuses to make a decision and then complains about what happens. It can be present in silent disapproval as much as a screaming argument. The constant "its's fine" or "you're right, it must be my fault." All of these small and quiet things can just be another form of control. Another way to shape your responses to what they want. It can be hard to see abuse in any form, but there are just as many forms of abuse as their are abusers to use them... they never have to raise their voice or lay a hand on you to break you down completely.

[Karysma]

Oh, this really spoke to me...

They will even say sorry in an obligatory way that reminds you that you are still the one to blame underneath it all or you were always the cause of whatever problem. And you're also the reason it never changes - you don't give enough chances, time, blood, sweat, your last ounce of everything you had in you and so on. They wouldn't say, do or feel x,y,z if it didn't have something to do with you instead of recognizing their own behavior and actively taking responsibility to change it on their own. This is a real mind screw because they can appear to be sympathetic, while really being self-righteous at the same time. It can be a lot harder to run & stay away from emotional/mental abuse that is gradual and that over time warps your perception & distorts the appearance of the way things really are.

[JDeere]

When they alienate you from friends and family.

I almost forgot this one.

[Kätzchen]

~ listen to warnings from friends ~
~ Ocean, I snipped your post to highlight what I think helped me the most, during my last romantic involvement with someone I met at the nursing home last year, after my work related accident. I saw nothing, in the beginning, that even remotely seemed like a deal breaker issue, when I first was dating my "Cuban Sugarman" (Juan --- who is not a member in our community, here). But after I was released to recover at home, we had numerous supper dates. About seven weeks into dating, nearly all my close friends noticed something about him that I couldn't see. Long story short: Because I've known my close friends for many many years, I was able to hear what they observed in the person I was seeing romantically. So, I began to observe, in a brief series of dates we had back in February, that my what my friends had the nerve to tell me about Juan, was true. I broke up with him on March 3rd, just not too long ago. It hurt my heart to do that, but I won't settle for less than I know I deserve. Listening to the friends in your life who know you really well can be the best decision you could ever make.
Abusers are driven by anger. Many seek revenge. No one deserves to be abused . Walk away and know there is something better out there waiting for you. This turned out to be exactly the case about my former romantic interest (Juan). I came to see that the way he treated me was a larger part of an anger problem, that had nothing to do with me, but I'm guessing has been a huge problem for him all along.

The anger is only part of the cycle of violence. Power and control is also part of the cycle of violence.

Just leave?

If only it were that easy.

I was physically abused by my ex-husband before, during and after my two pregnancies.

Where do you go if you have no family or friends close by? Have babies? I know that I went to the police and they did not arrest him.

Even today, with stricter laws about domestic violence and shelters for women and children-the psychological after-effects make many women (and men) almost paralyzed emotionally. Because I was tied in with him financially and emotionally and because of my children-when the making up and calm stage happened: I wanted to believe-needed to believe; that it would never happen again.

But, of course, it always did.

This cycle below simplifies a very complex pattern of behavior:

"Cycle of Violence

Incident

Any type of abuse occurs (physical/sexual/emotional)

Tension Building

Abuser starts to get angry
Abuse may begin
There is a breakdown of communication
Victim feels the need to keep the abuser calm
Tension becomes too much
Victim feels like they are 'walking on egg shells'
Making-Up

Abuser may apologize for abuse
Abuser may promise it will never happen again
Abuser may blame the victim for causing the abuse
Abuser may deny abuse took place or say it was not as bad as the victim claims
Calm

Abuser acts like the abuse never happened
Physical abuse may not be taking place
Promises made during 'making-up' may be met
Victim may hope that the abuse is over
Abuser may give gifts to victim

The cycle can happen hundreds of times in an abusive relationship. Each stage lasts a different amount of time in a relationship. The total cycle can take anywhere from a few hours to a year or more to complete.

It is important to remember that not all domestic violence relationships fit the cycle. Often, as time goes on, the 'making-up' and 'calm' stages disappear."

http://www.domesticviolence.org/cycle-of-violence/

If you are in danger, please use a safer computer, or call 911, your local hotline, or the U.S. National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 and TTY 1-800-787-3224.

Anya has some great information in her post about the cycle , the vicious cycle of abuse. I recently called the national dv phone number to find out how I could steer my mother to safety, find resources for her. Thanks for this useful post, Anya.


---------☆-------------☆-----------☆-----------.

I also want to say that because it's not easy to know if the person you are seeing, dating, romantically involved with has some sort of behavioral issues related to emotional, sexual, or violence type of abuse.

It's the number one reason why I won't consider long-distance or online dating.

If I date anyone at all, it's because it's someone I have met, right here at home.

It takes time to get to know someone. I introduce anyone I date to.my close circle of friends. They're my screening committee. They know me, like and love me, and care about me. They will nearly almost always see something I do not readily see, as far as deal breakers go. I cherish the years long friendships I have with people I've known for many, many years.

[cathexis]

Sexual assault/rape can and does exist in marriages and other LTR. You have the same rights and responsibilities as someone who is assaulted by a stranger.

If a bdsm relationship feel like abuse to you, then it is. There are many types of abuse: verbal, financial, physical, sexual, emotional, mind fucks, etc. Yes, police may question your proclivities, but they cannot discriminate against you based on your sexuality. A sexual behavior "interview" is not pleasant, but you'll make it through. You made it through the ordeal that got you in the police station. Believe me, I went through a 2 hr grilling by the Lt. of sex crimes with her pulling each of my "toys" out 1 by1 asking what it was and how it was used. Spent another hour explaining the difference between consensual and non-consensual.

Final point is if you didn't consent to something, it's assault. Doesn't matter what discussions you had with the perp. prior. It the eyes of the law, no is no!