Macklemore's "Same Love" : Ally or Exploitation?

[Medusa]

I'm guessing that a fair amount of the users here have either seen the Grammy performance from Sunday night where Macklemore, Queen Latifah, Mary Lambert, Madonna, and 33 couples did a live marriage ceremony while Macklemore performed "Same Love" or you've heard about it.

I've seen several folks comment about Macklemore winning in several categories for Rap music but I'd like that to be a different discussion if at all possible while acknowledging that there are intersections between that discussion and this one.

One particular article I read is located here: http://www.guerrillafem.com/2014/01/bow-down-macklemore/

This particular article has some commentary and juxtaposes Beyonce's "Flawless" against "Same Love" and basically calls out all of the ways in which the author feels that Macklemore's "anthem" is bullshit. The author also mentions that Macklemore's call-out of rap music's homophobia is racist and oppressive.
sidebar: The author's name is Kelly Fox and this is her bio: "Kelly is a seriously opinionated sassy femme dyke known for her tagline, ‘Where will you hide when the revolution comes?!’ When she's not terrorizing misogynists, you can find her ingesting large quantities of raw snack nuts, thrifting for floral-printed mini-dresses, and writing ferocious feminist manifestas. She has a Master's degree in Gender & Women’s Studies."
You can see a photo of her on this page: http://www.guerrillafem.com/about/team/

I have a couple of thoughts but I think this is a large, valid discussion to have on multiple levels.

What did you think of the "Same Love" performance?
Do you consider Macklemore an ally?
Do you think Macklemore is exploiting the Gay community?
Do you feel that the song "Same Love" should or should not be considered an "anthem" for Gay rights?
Do you think Macklemore is right to call out the Rap music community for homophobia? Do you think there is rampant homophobia in other music communities? How so?

I'd like to respectfully ask that folks peruse the article I linked above so that we can be on the same page with this discussion. It's not long a long article and I think that some of the juxtaposition with Beyonce and her music and Macklemore's heralding is not only super interesting but worthy of dissection.
I'll caveat this entire thing by saying that this article is NOT indicative of a single woman's ideas. I have seen this line of thought multiple times and multiple ways during the popularity of the song and my intent is to discuss the larger picture and not to focus on this single article.

With that being said, I'll craft another post with my own thoughts but wanted to kick off the discussion with this. Thanks for reading this far!

[ProfPacker]

I have to be honest in not being that intimate with Flawless but will now pay attention to it. But I did having many feelings about the performance from the tome I heard about it. My first thought id that Queen Latina was the officiant. This felt disingenuous to me since she has protected knowledge of her sexuality almost obsessively. I was not familiar with same love so I was curious about the way this was going to be handled in the Grammy's. I was watching this with my 20 year old daughter who was puzzled about the performance (she marches in Pride here in NY). Her response was "and the point of this is? And why is a closeted person doing this? We did discuss that the most touching part was Mary Lambert's participation. She was curious as to thenpoint of Madonna being there. We talked of oppression, how one supports oppression or social injustice (well, ok, I talked, she listened). I went to sleep feeling oppressed and offended. I was amazed how, the next morning my fb page lite up with such gratitude. I was puzzled as to what I was to be grateful to. Moreover, the producers couched "same sex" and protected themselves by mushing all difference together. When my daughter saw the straight couples her response was... but they were always able to marry, gay and lesbian folks can't (ok, I didn't give her a lecture on Virginia vs Loving)

That's my take on it. I believe that it was a white statement by a white man who thanked his fiance after receiving an award. And why didn't he get married that night.
Just saying. May give it more thought, but right now too tired

[C0LLETTE]

Can't we wait till the war's been won before we toss out all the people that want to help us?

[Medusa]

Caveats: I am admittedly getting more and more cranky about uber-educated Queers writing "manifestos" dissecting everything from marriage to orgasms and most often, labeling those things as "racist" or "sexist" through the lens of "but, but, but". That "but, but, but" thing being things like "Queers shouldn't get married because it's racist" or "women shouldn't have orgasms because it's giving in to the patriarchal notion that all sex should be orgasm-driven" or "we shouldn't celebrate the repeal of Don't Ask/Don't Tell because Gay soldiers are still agents of genocide". And NO, I am not saying that all of these things are not valid to discuss or even agree with. My irritation is around the micro-dissection of the fucking leaves while the forest grows wild and free.
More caveats: There are several articles out there with screen-shots of things that Macklemore is supposed to have tweeted that could appear to be homophobic. I have, admittedly, not dove very far yet into what the context or circumstance might have been but wanted to acknowledge that I know it's out there.
Broad caveat: I am speaking from my experience and my thought process. My thoughts do not necessarily reflect the direction or process of the site "ButchFemmePlanet" as an entity. My intent is to be as respectful as possible and I am speaking as clearly as I can with what language I normally use.


*breath*

With all of the above caveats, I'd like to start by saying that I appreciate the sentiment behind the song "Same Love" and think that Mary Lambert is fucking amazing. I also appreciate that Macklemore's song "Same Love" has become a highly-visible and recognizable "Gay rights" song. If I am not mistaken, this is the first time a popular "Top 100" song has said succinctly and openly that Gay folks should have the same ability to marry their partner/obtain the same human rights as everyone else.

I do think it is problematic to draw such a definitive parallel between Gay rights and the rights of Persons of Color because I do not feel that those principles are the same. BUT, I acknowledge that there are definite similar themes and can see why a person who is only looking at the surface would draw those conclusions.

I thought the performance at the Grammys was important and super-appreciated the inclusion of seemingly-appearing "straight" couples in the 33-couple ceremony that was performed on stage. I think it was purposeful and did much to say, "this is not just a "Gay" thing, this is a "marriage" thing".
I also noticed several celebrities like Keith Urban wiping away tears and thought that was nice.

No ally is perfect and I do believe that Macklemore has to understand the value of "playing to the crowd" with his Gay Rights stance. He's not stupid, clearly. Is he pandering? Probably. Is he exploiting? Probably.

Is it super-valuable that a famous, white, straight, rap performer is calling for equal rights for Gay people? In my opinion, yes, it is valuable. Acknowledging that there are shitty areas of this entire media thing, I'd submit that Macklemore's "Same Love" is falling in line with the idea that it is up to the folks with the rights to help the folks without rights carve a path to those rights.
And I'll be honest, it pisses me the fuck off that what little this guy is doing is being vilified on some level. Is it perfect? Oh, hell no. We call for our straight allies to stand with us. This one did. Did he have one hand in the Queer cookie jar? Probably. Do we sometimes have to acknowledge that our allies suck at being allies? Yep. Can we find ways to appreciate what strides people are able to make with their language and their experience to understand us Queer folks? I think we can. Gah, I hope we can.

I have more but I need to rest my wrists!! Back in a bit!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I'm guessing that a fair amount of the users here have either seen the Grammy performance from Sunday night where Macklemore, Queen Latifah, Mary Lambert, Madonna, and 33 couples did a live marriage ceremony while Macklemore performed "Same Love" or you've heard about it.

I've seen several folks comment about Macklemore winning in several categories for Rap music but I'd like that to be a different discussion if at all possible while acknowledging that there are intersections between that discussion and this one.

One particular article I read is located here: http://www.guerrillafem.com/2014/01/bow-down-macklemore/

This particular article has some commentary and juxtaposes Beyonce's "Flawless" against "Same Love" and basically calls out all of the ways in which the author feels that Macklemore's "anthem" is bullshit. The author also mentions that Macklemore's call-out of rap music's homophobia is racist and oppressive.
sidebar: The author's name is Kelly Fox and this is her bio: "Kelly is a seriously opinionated sassy femme dyke known for her tagline, ‘Where will you hide when the revolution comes?!’ When she's not terrorizing misogynists, you can find her ingesting large quantities of raw snack nuts, thrifting for floral-printed mini-dresses, and writing ferocious feminist manifestas. She has a Master's degree in Gender & Women’s Studies."
You can see a photo of her on this page: http://www.guerrillafem.com/about/team/

I have a couple of thoughts but I think this is a large, valid discussion to have on multiple levels.

What did you think of the "Same Love" performance?

I gave up long ago that Hollyweird is ever going to take up the cause for any oppressed groups, be they gay, POC or anything else than white male, so when I watched the Grammy's I was excited as a 44 year old dyke watching gay folk get married on live TV. It's all about the numbers, revenue, who's gonna win the rating for that night. It was just that, a performance that was something I thought I'd never see I was all warm for a bit, but then other stuff starts to bother me and I begin to pick it apart so I don't, I push it aside and I went ahead and kept the rose colored glasses and basked in the glow.

Do you consider Macklemore an ally?

I think he thinks he's a great ally, could he do more? Yes, if he was an ally I believe he could give Mary Lambert more credit, she deserves more credit for that collaboration, so when I do not see that it makes me go hmm. ally or opportunist? Other than this song, I hadn't seen him standing up for our rights, which leads me to go hmmm

Do you think Macklemore is exploiting the Gay community?

I think ALL artists exploit the Gay Community, it's trendy to be a friend to the gays..

Do you feel that the song "Same Love" should or should not be considered an "anthem" for Gay rights?

No. It's not my anthem.


Do you think Macklemore is right to call out the Rap music community for homophobia?

I think he should stick to calling out his own music genre out, it's not like rap music is the only music full of ism's or homophobia, this is where for me I get a little mad and upset with Macklemore. He's what I like to refer to as a fence straddler, one foot in hip hop the other in main stream. It's like he's literally rising up on the backs of two oppressed groups.

Do you think there is rampant homophobia in other music communities?

Yes

How so?

The country group Big & Rich is known for songs like Save A Horse, Ride A Cowboy. They are also known for writing a song supporting John McCain in the 2008 election, and for lead singer, John Rich's outspoken homophobia.


---------------------------------------


Another country singer, 2008 Grammy nominee, Brad Paisley, has a popular song called, I'm Still a Guy. In it he sings:

Well love makes a man do some things he ain't proud of / And in a weak moment I might walk your sissy dog, hold your purse at the mall / But remember, I'm still a guy /.../ These days there's dudes getting facials / Manicured, waxed and botoxed / With deep spray-on tans and creamy lotiony hands / You can't grip a tacklebox / With all of these men lining up to get neutered / It's hip now to be feminized / I don't highlight my hair / I've still got a pair / Yeah honey, I'm still a guy

-----------------------------------------------------

Ricky Martin, Elton John, Morrisey, Freddie Mercury, legends but weren't free to be out until late in life, their careers would be different.




I'd like to respectfully ask that folks peruse the article I linked above so that we can be on the same page with this discussion. It's not long a long article and I think that some of the juxtaposition with Beyonce and her music and Macklemore's heralding is not only super interesting but worthy of dissection.
I'll caveat this entire thing by saying that this article is NOT indicative of a single woman's ideas. I have seen this line of thought multiple times and multiple ways during the popularity of the song and my intent is to discuss the larger picture and not to focus on this single article.

With that being said, I'll craft another post with my own thoughts but wanted to kick off the discussion with this. Thanks for reading this far!



I have other bigger issues with the whole Macklemore beating out Kendrick Lamar, it bothers me A LOT probably more than it does that he is the new gay ally. I had an issue with it when Macklemore cleaned up at the MTV awards, but he's been known to admit his privileges I posted about it back in August here:

>linkyloo< (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=836412#post836412)


Look to me, he's no different than any other artist who joins the *cause* of the week that gets them more cash flow. What do we expect, we buy into it, watch it, enable it, and rarely speak against it.

I don't connect with Beyonce like the woman in the article.

[Selenay]

I'm torn about how I feel. On one hand, it's important to have pro LGBT celebrity allies; as much as we may not agree with the allies we acquire, they are helping to shape a cultural narrative and start a dialogue that, in many ways, we CAN'T start.

On the other hand, I find it problematic that a straight white cis-man has created an anthem for the queer community; I felt the same way when Katy Perry's "I Kissed A Girl," was tearing up the charts.

I agree with calling out systemic discrimination, and I don't think that Macklemore calling out the rap/hiphop community is more troubling than if Miranda Lambert did it.

That being said, it is not my anthem—I prefer other anthems.

For those who are intrigued, I find that Angel Haze did a pretty great cover of it, written from a queerer perspective, which you can hear here (https://soundcloud.com/angelhazeym/same-love-angel-haze#t=0:00). I don't find her version triggering, but your mileage may vary and whatnot.

We're all part of the queer community—I mean unless you don't identify as part of the queer community which is also a-okay—if "Same Love" your anthem, rock on. If "Born This Way" is your anthem, awesomesauce. If "I'm The Only One" is your anthem, keep doing your thing. Whatever makes you raise your fist is an awesome anthem, and I don't get to say it's not: that's what makes it yours.

[The_Lady_Snow]

P.S.

I want to clarify I am not a hater of Macklemore, I don't see him as a bad person, I am being honest about how things are broken down in my head when it comes to everyday issues that have an effect on me as a person in the LGBTQI world.

[ProfPacker]

Medusa,
I don't disagree with what you are saying but the event felt exploitive. I'm agree that it is under the larger umbrella of civil rights but Hollywood is opportunist. Did the writer of the missive sound angry and place this under the rubric of more neolliberal patter. She did.

I was actually more curious about a 20 year old's reaction given that for many years her family was not legitimized. I think she really took offense at it not really being a clear statement of queer marriage. So, I was filtering from the lenses of a 65 year old woman who did feel moved but confused by my reaction that I was not overly moved and a 20 year old that has been experiencing her own oppression from the dominant world as being the daughter of queer parents.

I do think it takes a lot more to be an ally than a song and a show. That's why I thought it would have been more affirming if he and his fiance would have married along with others. So, the intentionality is not clean cut. I appreciate Queen Latina's struggle and actually was wondering what she was really feeling. Socorro that I am someone ambiguous but that is where I am at these days.

[Medusa]

I'm torn about how I feel. On one hand, it's important to have pro LGBT celebrity allies; as much as we may not agree with the allies we acquire, they are helping to shape a cultural narrative and start a dialogue that, in many ways, we CAN'T start.

On the other hand, I find it problematic that a straight white cis-man has created an anthem for the queer community; I felt the same way when Katy Perry's "I Kissed A Girl," was tearing up the charts.

I agree with calling out systemic discrimination, and I don't think that Macklemore calling out the rap/hiphop community is more troubling than if Miranda Lambert did it.

That being said, it is not my anthem—I prefer other anthems.

For those who are intrigued, I find that Angel Haze did a pretty great cover of it, written from a queerer perspective, which you can hear here (https://soundcloud.com/angelhazeym/same-love-angel-haze#t=0:00). I don't find her version triggering, but your mileage may vary and whatnot.

We're all part of the queer community—I mean unless you don't identify as part of the queer community which is also a-okay—if "Same Love" your anthem, rock on. If "Born This Way" is your anthem, awesomesauce. If "I'm The Only One" is your anthem, keep doing your thing. Whatever makes you raise your fist is an awesome anthem, and I don't get to say it's not: that's what makes it yours.




This. This. This.

It is SO true that Macklemore is helping to create a dialog that we can't. Mary Lambert has been singing for a long time. But where? Was she in the top 100? Was she even getting any airplay on ANY station around the US? That's the thing with Queer singers, they have to be the Singer first and the Queer second. And by that, I am exampling Melissa Etheridge.

She was a singer for a while before she came out. I know there must be Gay singers who were known to be Gay before they became famous but I'm having a hard time thinking of one.

Consequently, I just saw a documentary on LOGO about a pair of twin brothers who were both Mormon and Gay and who were trying to get their singing career going as openly Gay/Bisexual (I can't remember if one of them was Bi or both were Gay) and the trials of that. It was called "Nemesis Rising" if anyone is interested!

[Medusa]

P.S.

I want to clarify I am not a hater of Macklemore, I don't see him as a bad person, I am being honest about how things are broken down in my head when it comes to everyday issues that have an effect on me as a person in the LGBTQI world.


Same for me, Snowy. I don't hate Macklemore or even the shitty parts of what is happening with "Same Love" and all of its/his fame. I feel like some of the shitty parts are necessity.

[ProfPacker]

I just hope that there continues to be a dialogue. I do agree about how shifty it was that Mary Lambert is not getting the recognition as one of the main creators of the song. It is the privileged white male who needs to abdicate his glory and elevate her. If she does that I will have more respect for the process.

That being said, I think when LBGTQ folks spend the next day thanking the establishment from throwing them a bone the dialogue becomes diluted. Those that question become angry, pulling things apart, non-appreciative. That is how oppression works. The oppressed group tries to figure out how to take a stand because the oppressed are always aware that their rights that they are denied will only be given to them by the privileged group.

I hope that this can be a forum where we can look at the effects of oppressioncand marginalization on our own identity development.

[Medusa]

Medusa,
I don't disagree with what you are saying but the event felt exploitive. I'm agree that it is under the larger umbrella of civil rights but Hollywood is opportunist. Did the writer of the missive sound angry and place this under the rubric of more neolliberal patter. She did.

I was actually more curious about a 20 year old's reaction given that for many years her family was not legitimized. I think she really took offense at it not really being a clear statement of queer marriage. So, I was filtering from the lenses of a 65 year old woman who did feel moved but confused by my reaction that I was not overly moved and a 20 year old that has been experiencing her own oppression from the dominant world as being the daughter of queer parents.

I do think it takes a lot more to be an ally than a song and a show. That's why I thought it would have been more affirming if he and his fiance would have married along with others. So, the intentionality is not clean cut. I appreciate Queen Latina's struggle and actually was wondering what she was really feeling. Socorro that I am someone ambiguous but that is where I am at these days.


Oh, so so much agreed on Hollywood being opportunist! And like Snowy said earlier, we are the latest "cash cow" for Hollywood.

I was wondering what Queen Latifah was feeling as well but I don't think it was any coincidence that they had her officiating. I have read for years as the tabloids have speculated about Latifah's sexuality and I remember that several tabloids had published photos of her kissing and embracing her personal trainer/friend. (I can't remember how they described her!)

It was odd to me to have Madonna there. I mean, I know she has been a champion for Gay rights for a long time but I would have liked to see another actual GAY person on the stage. Like Elton John maybe? Or KD Lang? Or Melissa Etheridge? or George Michael? Or hell, any of them. Or, even better, ALL of them!!

And can I say again that Mary Lambert is fabulous??!?!?!?

[ProfPacker]

But in many ways this was another avenue for the privileged and dominant group to feel good about themselves. If you think of the history of social services in this country it was always based on those in power "doing good". If there was equal distribution of rights and wealth how would these people feel good about themselves. The writer of the article is correct in talking about neoliberalism. We have a history in this country of providing rights as long as the dominant group accords us permission. It is a very nuanced experiemce. It will only work when they stop pitting marginalized groups against each other. And, the marginalized and oppressed groups realize that a lot of their in fighting is caused by this dynamic.

[C0LLETTE]

I'm no expert but isn't this the way of most "revolutions? They're seldom, if ever, fronted by the oppressed who are too busy being oppressed to have the luxury or advantage to do much flag bearing.

I'll confess, I live in a cave and poke my head out every now and then to see what's going on. Three days ago I'd never heard of "Same Love", Macklemore, Mary Lambert. I barely know what hip hop is either.

Yes yes it was a glitzy, schmaltzy, maybe exploitative performance. But I , for one, enjoyed it; am happy that Broke Back Mountain might now be retired as Hollywood's only major paean to gayness (tyg). People got married, no one died tragically and, I read that Mary Lambert has signed with Capitol Records and is climbing the Billboard charts. Not every gift horse is Trojan.

[Parker]

I have no issues with Same Love bc (a) Mary helped to write it and (b) it was written during the time WA was trying to legalize marriage equality - it was written in support of that (that's what he is talking about with the lyrics, "Damn right I support it" and "And a certificate on paper isn't gonna solve it all
But it's a damn good place to start").

So while it has gotten huge and he is getting rich off of it (and other songs), it started out in a good place and I cant fault him (or them) for that - plus, like someone else said, it brought Mary out into the spotlight, where she should be. Is he perfect? Good lord, no. But I'll take an ally who is making a few bucks off of a song that supports marriage equality over an ally who still uses, "that's gay" (ahem, Dixie Chicks' Natalie Maines) any damn day of the week.

Personally, I was touched by what I saw - yes, Madonna being there was a little strange and I would have preferred someone who is OUT officiating to Queen Latifah (no offense, I love the Queen), but just seeing all of those gay couples getting married right there on live TV, in front of millions of people - that was huge. And since my crusty old heart sometimes melts a bit at things like that, it was sweet to see them all so happy and to see everyone celebrating with them.

I will say that it made me a little uncomfortable to watch him rap the lyrics about Hip Hop's homophobia - he walked out to the edge of the stage like he was calling out specific people and I couldnt help but think about how much hate comes our way from the Country music side of things (I found Reba to be a particular disappointment). I agree with whoever said that he is speaking to his genre - but a LOT of people have issues with him even being IN that genre, let alone being a white dude calling people out in Hip Hop.

But that's probably another thread...

[Medusa]

Which leads me to think I want to start another thread about who "owns" music genres. Like, are white people ever allowed to rap? Are folks of color ever allowed to sing country music? How about an First Nations person singing opera?

[ProfPacker]

You clarified the historical context of the song, thank you. We can also like and dislike something at the same time. I do jot want to take away from the happiness the couples felt after getting married. I wonder how far Hollywood went in their celebratory stance. Did anyone hear if the were given the biggest f*in party of the night for relatives, families, etc. That to me would be major recognition.

[C0LLETTE]

Yo Yo Ma plays a lot of Bach... very well, as a matter of fact.

[Medusa]

You clarified the historical context of the song, thank you. We can also like and dislike something at the same time. I do jot want to take away from the happiness the couples felt after getting married. I wonder how far Hollywood went in their celebratory stance. Did anyone hear if the were given the biggest f*in party of the night for relatives, families, etc. That to me would be major recognition.

I did just read a thing that all 33 of the couples were given tickets to the biggest after party. One of the attending couples (consequently, a Butch/Femme -appearing couple) stated that throngs of celebs were coming up and congratulating them and asking to take photos and that they partied all night!

[The_Lady_Snow]

I believe Queen Latifah came out in May of 2012 at Long Beach Pride. I remember it cause it was a big deal when it happened, I was like you didn't know?

"At the 2012 Long Beach Pride event in California last weekend, the 42-year-old award-winning singer, rapper and actress officially came out as gay.

“Y’all my peeps (people),” she said, referring to the LGBT community. “I love you!”

The Queen performed to a crowd of about 1,000 people for more than an hour, telling them to “keep your support system tight” and also warning about keeping safe from STDs.

“Thank you to all my favorite peep guests who came out to support me. I appreciate it. I love you so much. Hope you had a beautiful time,” she said. “Y’all be safe whatever y’all get into tonight. Boys –- strap it up. Ladies –- strap it up.”

-------------------------------------------



ETA

I would also like to add that she denied it later on, so until she decides to let us in we can just speculate, I am still thinking she is, though it may be cause she's HOT!

[Martina]

There does come a point in a movement when the mainstream capitulates and then pretends they were on your side all along, or at the very least were innocent bystanders.

I am too old to be in touch with current zeitgeist well enough to know whether this song is part of that kind of revisionist project. When I was younger, examples (re racism) were "Dances with Wolves" and "Forest Gump."

I do think the article makes some good points, and I would agree that the song is not smart or all that helpful as it is written. Ironically Macklemore and Lewis are smart writers. I think it's interesting that they have put so much energy into a not very good song. I agree that maybe they are doing it, at least in part, to deflect some of the criticism around two white guys getting so much more attention than African American rappers this year. I don't know the genre and the pop culture around the issue well enough to comment much. I am not sure why they are getting more criticism than Eminem has, for example. Is it partially a class issue? I did read that they are the first white rappers to gain success without being more or less sponsored by African American rap artists and without coming up through the institutions where most rap artists find recognition. They got fame through youtube, I think I read.

One thing that has bothered me lately was the Duck Dynasty controversy. That very well-educated redneck (he has a Master's degree in education) did not just make homophobic remarks. He as much as said that African Americans in his part of the world did not suffer under Jim Crow. That that wasn't much of a big deal is, to me, crazy-making. Talk about erasing history. And that guy really knows better. He chooses to believe that. That the Duck Dynasty brouhaha is usually referred to just in terms of his making homophobic remarks is telling.

I was stunned that pretending that racism was never all that toxic in the South got so little reaction. How successful has our erasure of the crimes of our past been? Are we doing the same thing re gay and lesbian oppression?

I read an article about a woman who said that Archie Manning lied in his autobiography about his high school years during integration. At the very least, Manning, President of his class, did not lift a finger to help the African American students who were being bullied in his newly integrated high school. He has completely rewritten history when he tells his story and accuses the people who have called him on it liars. And that video hagiography of the family that is constantly on ESPN mentions nothing of all that. Archie Manning was a moral coward. That is a story that gets told on little websites, not on ESPN.

I know Paula Deen got trounced for racism, but her lapses were so blatant that they were impossible to defend. That Duck Dynasty daddy's saying that the his Louisiana African American neighbors were singing happily in the fields before the Civil Rights era is somehow less objectionable than his homophobia? I still do not get that.

Culture wants to forgive itself, and to do so, it rewrites history. We want to hear Archie Manning saying, yes, it's good segregation is over without having to hear the stories of the African Americans whose persecution he sat by and watched. We want to remember it without the blood and the pain, without seeing ourselves, our parents and grandparents as people who caused terrible harm to others. The Help, written by a white Southern woman, may have ended on a too sanguine note and over-emphasized the role of young white people in change, but you do see vivid details of real harm done by people who lived on to become our beloved grandmothers and great grandmothers. That, to me, is helpful (no pun intended).

Macklemore and Lewis are smart guys. Not homophobes. Not racists. Decent guys. But are they helping to create that alternative narrative of the innocent straight white guy who was always on your side, who never wished us any harm? I am way cool with people coming to their own truths in their own time and with joining the cause at any point -- early or late. I am not cool with some picture of reality that says they were always there or that they lead the way. Allies, maybe. Activists or leaders. NO. Don't even accidentally look like you are.

[Parker]

I believe Queen Latifah came out in May of 2012 at Long Beach Pride. I remember it cause it was a big deal when it happened, I was like you didn't know?

"At the 2012 Long Beach Pride event in California last weekend, the 42-year-old award-winning singer, rapper and actress officially came out as gay.

“Y’all my peeps (people),” she said, referring to the LGBT community. “I love you!”

The Queen performed to a crowd of about 1,000 people for more than an hour, telling them to “keep your support system tight” and also warning about keeping safe from STDs.

“Thank you to all my favorite peep guests who came out to support me. I appreciate it. I love you so much. Hope you had a beautiful time,” she said. “Y’all be safe whatever y’all get into tonight. Boys –- strap it up. Ladies –- strap it up.”

-------------------------------------------



ETA

I would also like to add that she denied it later on, so until she decides to let us in we can just speculate, I am still thinking she is, though it may be cause she's HOT!

I thought she came out as well, but several (gay) people on my FB said she never *actually* came out, she just danced around it - and "Y'all my peeps!" could mean she is gay or it could mean she just loves "the gays" - celebs like, oh hell, what's her name ... Kathy Griffin! - she says shit like that all the time.

I dont know - we all know she's gay, so maybe she doesnt have to say the actual words...



eta: as to your eta - I think she's hot as well - especially when she is belting out some jazz.

[ProfPacker]

Thank you, Martina. This point about rewriting history is an important one. I teach on Staten Island and one of the assignments I give my social work students is to create the history of Staten Island that is not in the history books. The are always amazed the Native people occupied Staten Island before the Dutch and proud, mind you, that the first brewery in the colonies was Staten Island. Not sure which fact these kids were more enamored with, lol

[Medusa]

Thank you, Martina. This point about rewriting history is an important one. I teach on Staten Island and one of the assignments I give my social work students is to create the history of Staten Island that is not in the history books. The are always amazed the Native people occupied Staten Island before the Dutch and proud, mind you, that the first brewery in the colonies was Staten Island. Not sure which fact these kids were more enamored with, lol

Not to mention that we are still raising kids in this country to believe that the generous Pilgrims sat down with the uncivilized "natives" and had a big, happy Thanksgiving dinner with a biggo punkin' pieeeeee.

No mention of the deaths, rapes, and homes destroyed.

And my eyes roll so hard in the back of my head when I read the fictitious accounts of Custer's Last Stand that I think I can see my brain stem.

[ProfPacker]

Or the boarding schools for Native children to "tae the savage out of them". We can go on and on. In a sense, that is why I think we have to be careful about our response to the Grammy's... do we want it said of the dominant class... of course they supported same-sex marriage ....look what they did at the Grammy's. So, lets see and, as always I ask myself what I need to do to go out of my comfort zone... to make change.
I wondered how the child of a heterosexual couple would have viewed it... because my kid did not feel it rang bells. So lets say being human is confusing

[Selenay]

Or the boarding schools for Native children to "tae the savage out of them". We can go on and on. In a sense, that is why I think we have to be careful about our response to the Grammy's... do we want it said of the dominant class... of course they supported same-sex marriage ....look what they did at the Grammy's. So, lets see and, as always I ask myself what I need to do to go out of my comfort zone... to make change.
I wondered how the child of a heterosexual couple would have viewed it... because my kid did not feel it rang bells. So lets say being human is confusing

As a queer 20-something raised by two straight people, I saw a lot of white straight faces in that marriage ceremony and that didn't really super thrill me when the whole thing was supposed to be about acceptance and tolerance and GAYMCA pride.

[*Anya*]

5.8.2013

BY STACY LAMBE

How a straight white rapper from Seattle wrote hip-hop’s first gay anthem.

"...Asked what served as his inspiration for “Same Love,” he hangs his head and thinks for a moment. “I knew I wanted to write a song about gay rights, about marriage equality, and about homophobia in hip-hop, but I didn’t know how to do it,” he says. “I tried, at first, writing from the perspective of a gay, bullied kid. That’s what sparked the song in the first place: reading the story of a 13-year-old who committed suicide.”

It was at that point that Lewis intervened, pushing the rapper to write a personal narrative instead. The result was an account of Macklemore’s struggle with his own sexuality as a kid.

Both he and Lewis grew up surrounded by gay adults. Lewis’s uncle is gay and has been living with HIV for 30 years. “Growing up with a gay uncle and having him be a huge part of our family -- I don’t think my parents’ outlook would be the same if it weren’t for him,” Lewis says. “He’s had a strong influence on us throughout the years.” Macklemore was raised in Capitol Hill, a liberal, gay-friendly district of Seattle.

The men closest to him -- his uncle Johnny and his godfather -- are gay. “Where I grew up, there were huge gay pride parades less than a mile away from me,” Macklemore says. “My dad’s best friend was gay. My barber was gay. My uncles owned this restaurant that was a huge magnet for the gay community. My whole upbringing was around gay people.”

Macklemore grew up Catholic, but was questioning his sexuality by the third grade. His mother, a social worker, reassured him that he was straight, but not without encouraging him to take up ballet lessons as a display of solidarity for a classmate who was being bullied. That period of confusion, and his sympathy for his ostracized peer, has stayed with him.

..."

http://www.out.com/entertainment/music/2013/05/07/macklemore-ryan-lewis-gay-anthem-hiphop?page=full

[C0LLETTE]

I'm not at all sure that we were the target audience for that performance or that we are the best arbiters of whether it was successful in achieving any goals, assuming it had some. But if it made a lot of straight people feel more comfy and better than they once did about queers and gay marriage, I'm ok with that. And I don't care if it gets to them sub their limin, delivered by the organ grinder's monkey; it does appear that it is getting there.

[fatallyblonde]

I'm not gonna spend a lot of time speechifying... just that I am friggin sick to death of straight white men being celebrated... wrong on so many levels not just cos he's a straight dude but he appropriates rap music and has ripped off black rap artists... he gets celebrated disproportionately in his favour for saying the same things actual gay people and black people have said a bazillion times already... and as a man is definitely celebrated above women. Yet somehow he's revolutionary for saying it? Gimme a break. The problem is severely institutionalised but he's not helping by taking the glory. BLERG.

[Parker]

Not to mention that we are still raising kids in this country to believe that the generous Pilgrims sat down with the uncivilized "natives" and had a big, happy Thanksgiving dinner with a biggo punkin' pieeeeee.

No mention of the deaths, rapes, and homes destroyed.

And my eyes roll so hard in the back of my head when I read the fictitious accounts of Custer's Last Stand that I think I can see my brain stem.

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but your post reminded me of a thread I saw today in Facebook where people were discussing Macklemore's claims that he wanted to say something in his acceptance speech about how Kendrick should have won, but he froze. Some people asked if they all were being hard on the guy and in response, another person posted this YouTube clip of Marlon Brando's refusal, via Sacheen Littlefeather, the President of the National Native American Affirmative Image Commity, to accept his Oscar in 1973.


2QUacU0I4yU

[fatallyblonde]

and yes I agree with that excellent article posted. beyonce rules, macklemore drools.

so fascinating a white straight bro can be salivated over for one condescending 'ho ho I guess you gays are okay' whilst black queer rape artists go completely ignored and have been so for yeaaaaaaars...
wait, no, not fascinating... that other thing... offensive.

[ProfPacker]

This morning while showering, I was thinking about this discussion and, again, wondering about my flat response. I remembered another comment that my daughter said that gave me some insight into her experience as a daughter of a lesbian headed household. She said
"So, what happens when these couples go back to places where their marriage sis not legal". So, Justice Kennedy you did correctly speak to the effects of children regarding dicriminatory practices. What was her experience when as a7 year old at the time on NY she came home and said "you live like you care married but so and socsaid girls can't marry each other" for a while (now this is hindsight) I realize there was a drop in inviting friends over. Or recently, because we are in NJ and separated prior to marriage being legal here, we separated. She never talks about it as a divorce because it was not legal, although to me I perceive it as a divorce, etc. So her narrative concerning the show was colored by life experiences which were colored by living I. A family that was discriminated against. When She was 13 and we put in the paperworkcfor a sibling from China, what was it like for her to recognize that her country of origin would not recognize our family and by collusion, our country wouldn't and I had to "disappear" for the homestudy, etc.
Wow, one event on TV gave me a greater window into her experiences than would have scone from "a big talk"
Btw, in a strange way, ABC family is opening up the dialogue for families much more than one event. I amazed at how (and more than Modern Family, which is satirical) the dialogue with my 15 year old is opening up because her experience is being mirrored in this show. She talks of how and how not she identifies. It was also gratmfor me to see that when one of the characters was presented she said "he's trans" and talked about constructs of identity so easily and with empathy regarding a process. Why aren't the fb boards lighting up about this? Because it is a Disney show and I get that adults only watch Disney under duress...I do and sometimes I am surprised as to what is on.

[silkepus]

I agree 100% with fattalyblonde, I absolutely cant stand this song. I've been avoiding it for so long but there just is no escape is there.

This is our anthem? Really? Did we have a vote because I was not in on this decision.

This is just the new trendy social cause that’s all it is. It’s for straight people to pat themselves on the back because now they can’t be homophobic because they listen to same love- go them yay! (I do actually know someone who insists they are not homophobic because they liked this song while at the same time says things like "I don’t mind gay people, as long as they don’t do it in public").

I think what irks me most about this is no one else could have made a song like that and actually gotten noticed. It’s because he is a straight white male that makes it all ok. Gay rights and hip hop is fine and all- just don’t make it too gay or too black. I feel like it just shows how far we have to go. When a queer person can be openly gay and sing about homophobia and still get this kind of attention, I'll cheer a bit more than I am now.

And that doesn’t mean I have something against him in particular, he didn’t choose for his song to hit of. It’s the culture we live in that jumps on any chance to celebrate a SWM for doing things people who have actually suffered from said oppression has been doing for years.

For me this just adds on the list of what I don’t like about popular mainstream culture.

[Julie]

Personally - ME speaking.
I am happy the song is out there. I wish it was a queer person who wrote and performed it. I wish it was a queer person who received the publicity. But it was not.

I believe the song hit home to a lot of people. Opening the eyes of many. It played on radio stations around the world. Why would this be bad?

I am not going to get into whether he should have won or not. If he is straight or gay. For me, and this is ME. I am glad and grateful the song is out there. We need straight allies and regardless if he made money on our backs or not. He had the voice to spread a message. I would have preferred Mary Lambert "She keeps me warm."

As far as the people who were married. I was a little annoyed at seeing the straight people being wed. The song played was "Same Love." That bothered me more than anything.

[Gráinne]

Which leads me to think I want to start another thread about who "owns" music genres. Like, are white people ever allowed to rap? Are folks of color ever allowed to sing country music? How about an First Nations person singing opera?

"Are white people allowed to rap"-does Eminem count?
"Are POC allowed to sing country music"-Darius Rucker (of Hootie and the Blowfish), Cleve Francis, and even Ray Charles, who was of course much more famous for his blues and soul.
"First Nations person singing opera"-I don't know of a singer, but Tomson Highway is Cree (and gay), and wrote one.

Maybe I'm just being a pain in the rear ;).

As to Macklemore and the ceremony, the whole thing just screamed "publicity stunt". I don't equate this with the sit-ins during the Civil Rights Movement or the Freedom Riders. That could and often was dangerous. This just felt like a rich white (and straight) man jumping on the latest fad, on television at that.

I've been wondering what would have happened if Eminem performed that song, and queer POC were amongst the couples. Personally, I'm more of an Eminem fan, at least some of his music. Macklemore seems like a decent person, but he comes off a dandy at best, and the other night, a tool at worst.

I know he meant well and that the couples were joyous. I just think issues in our community go beyond marriage, and that we are not fads.

[Ginger]

I like the song and I'm glad it's out there.

[*Anya*]

“Any time you are speaking about or for a community that is inherently not yours, a group that you are not a part of, you have to be careful,” Macklemore says. “So ‘Same Love’ had to be a very personal song for that reason. I think that’s how it came out.

Though he credits the couple for being his model of a committed and loving relationship, the rapper admits he was initially very reluctant to play the track for his uncle. “These were some of the hardest words to write on a piece of paper, knowing that people were going to hear this,” Macklemore says, adding that playing the song for his uncle and his partner, let alone to thousands of fans, meant exposing himself.

However, after learning that his father had already shared the song with the couple, Macklemore was so moved that he decided to change the artwork for the single. The original concept, a collage of two same-sex couples and rainbow clip art, wasn’t gelling with him—“It didn’t represent what the song is,” he says.

Instead, the final artwork for “Same Love” shows his two uncles posing in a stark, classic family portrait: One sits resolutely in a chair, while the other stands behind him, his hand on his lover’s shoulder. The photo is simple but elegant and powerful."

I included more of the article for context.

Macklemore has a gay uncle, in a committed relationship. I believe he is in an ally.

*My Opinion*

I only watched part of the Grammy's and did not care for the publicity stunt of wedding straight and gay couples but hell: same love, right? Not in my wildest dreams did I think I would see gay couples getting married on TV in my lifetime.

I came out New Years, 1978. My first girlfriend and I, dancing in a gay nightclub all night, as our statement to ourselves and to those present, that we were lesbians.

I Will Survive or some other straight song the gay boys had co-opted as their anthem, blasting and we all sang our hearts out. I felt such joy.

Your anthem is whatever song speaks to you.

The first time I heard Same Love on the radio, I cried. I sat in awe that a song about the love I have for another woman was actually being played on the radio.

I also thought about a kid struggling with his sexuality, no matter his culture or race, who might be immersed in hip-hop, hearing a song that tells him that same-sex love is OK. To me, that is powerful.

When I came out, I never heard Holly Near being played on top 40 radio. We all had to listen to "our songs" on cassette tapes or vinyl records in our homes.

*I* do not care who sings a song or raps to a song. As long as their doing so will encourage straight people to have their eyes or heart opened, even a kernel, to my right to love, live, keep a job or marry the woman that I love.

In my wildest dreams, some 36 years ago when I first came out, did I ever expect to see the changes that have occurred! We were still sneaking into gay clubs 36 years ago!

I will take change, in micro steps, if need be, in any way that it comes. I don't care how self-serving it is for the artist, politician or anyone that it may be; if it ultimately helps all of us.

That is how I feel.

[~baby~doll~]

Though i find it hard to take seriously anyone who is not of a specific community creating a so called anthem it needs to be done. Their voice will rise above those who belong to the underprivileged community.
As LGBT our voice is generally weak. In all media we fall short. In publishing few book stores carry many of the titles we would find of interest. i'm sure many of us here don't know all the LGBT authors we could be supporting and reading. We read James Patterson instead of trying Katherine V Forrest because we see the TV ads for Patterson books.
The song I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry (2008) is an example of the weakness of our voice.
In 1995 Jill Sobule Released I Kissed a Girl it's popularity was minimal by comparison to the Katy Perry release.
Different songs one made a huge splash one didn't. Straight vs Gay.
We all know our society is based on straight privilege. It is what it is.

We need the straight community to support our cause. We do not have the numbers, which would force change. This is a sad truth. Macklemore is a voice crying out and adds to the number's who will support our cause. This is a good thing for us.

As an anthem i can find so many better tunes.

Just off the top of my head i can think of two by an out lesbian Catie Curtis.

9uom3yOEyvw

P4kTL5uPpWc

It makes me sad her songs do not reach deeply into the straight community who's support we need to change the world.

[C0LLETTE]

My Mother was born before the advent of jet planes. She lived to see flights to the moon. I came out, in the late 50's- early 60's in a society where the only places for gays to meet were bars run by gangsters who ripped you off on the way in; and you were often met by cops who beat you up and/or arrested you on the way out.Maybe it is generational but, like Anya, I never thought I'd live to see gays being married on national television ( though it did smack a bit of Rev. Moon ).

I'll leave the deconstruction of events to the ideologues and those with the necessary vocabulary for these things. However I do think that no social movement is ever pure and it is counterproductive to insist on that. Imperfect it may have been but the performance was a broadly shared "happy" occasion and I'm glad I got to see it.

Conflicted as always, I can't help but add a note of caution. Like many, I tend to become complacent when I see progress being made. Then I remember that the Jews of Germany thought they were sewn into the fabric of German society with full rights of citizenship; the swiftness and severity of their disabuse offers evidence enough that they never really were. That said, I don't want to live with that pessimism alone; with insecurities that deny me the pleasure of some victories and advancements, flawed or not. And I do have the benefit of hindsight and of "having been there" to offer testimony that progress is most definitely being made.

[ProfPacker]

I realize this is slightly off-topic, but your post reminded me of a thread I saw today in Facebook where people were discussing Macklemore's claims that he wanted to say something in his acceptance speech about how Kendrick should have won, but he froze. Some people asked if they all were being hard on the guy and in response, another person posted this YouTube clip of Marlon Brando's refusal, via Sacheen Littlefeather, the President of the National Native American Affirmative Image Commity, to accept his Oscar in 1973.


2QUacU0I4yU


thank you and wow, little different than today where we think we make a statement but it riddled by so many rules and regulations. I wonder who would have made a statement like that after Broke Back Mountain?

[julieisafemme]

Macklemore is an ally in my book. I like the song and him as an ally because it obviously comes from a personal place because his uncle is gay.

My kid loves that song because it makes her feel proud that someone is talking about these things who is very popular and on the radio. I guess it is some kind of validation for her about our family.

The Grammy performance was awful. Mary Lambert was pushed to the side. At one point Macklemore stood directly in front of her like she was some kind of backup singer. Not cool! She was the only out queer on the stage! Madonna was sooooo bad I could hardly stand it. Queen Laitifah is welcome to not discuss her sexuality publicly but I would have rather seen an out queer in her place. The whole marriage thing was really over the top for me and it was annoying that straight people were included.

[GeeGina]

While I echo the author's point about "not needing straight boys to validate her existence" Macklemore's getting a few more of them on board won't hurt, either. The rights we're all fighting for aren't going to magically appear and the more sincere allies we have on our side the better, no matter how naive , sheltered, or privileged their viewpoint.

The MORE straight people who see OUR love as decent, genuine, and comparable to theirs means more people seeing our lives in the same light. That means more people refusing to accept offenses against us, less harassment when we express affection in public, more sympathy while we fight for our right to equal protection under the law, and more people who simply believe that no one is free unless everyone is free.

How can that be bad? We need a big tent people. One bitchy, self righteous queer columnist ain't taking us to the mountaintop. Macklemore's in a position of power and influence and on our side. Why not cut the guy a break?

Also, she's dead wrong about hip-hop culture not being homophobic and anyone calling it out as racism. Anyone remember Busta Rhymes? Or Eminem? I do. More to the point, despite their leading role in the Civil Rights Movement, black churches from coast-to-coast STILL struggle with endorsing rights for LGBT people of any color. Many do not see our struggle in the same lights as theirs - and it was the single biggest reason why President Obama supported civil unions, and NOT same-sex marriage during his presidential campaign. He needed their votes.

Lastly, I'm reminded of a passage in "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" when, while speaking at Harvard, a white female student asked sincerely if there was any thing she could do to help the civil rights cause...and Malcolm X said "Nothing" and walked away. He later wrote that he regretted that - denying a sincere person a chance to do the right thing and help the larger cause (BTW...him telling the student there was nothing she could do made the movie...but his regret later didn't).

I did think the mass marriage was a stunt, and it made me uncomfortable.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Frank Ocean is an openly gay artist in the same category as Macklemore, the song is about love, anyone else notice he wasn't mentioned?

We do, other POC do, his music industry does.

It would of been nice for him to have been up there, singing one of his songs.


The author has very good points..

[The_Lady_Snow]

Frank Ocean is an openly gay artist in the same category as Macklemore, the song is about love, anyone else notice he wasn't mentioned?

We do, other POC do, his music industry does.

It would of been nice for him to have been up there, singing one of his songs.


The author has very good points..


I had to requote myself cause I was on the phone on this above post, here is the song I am thinking of...


dKcozRG0bIk