Heaven and Hell. What do you think?

[Ryobi]

Heaven and Hell

When I was a kid (under 10), I asked my Grandpa about Heaven and Hell. I wasn't sure what to fear or what to hope for. He put it in terms that I have never forgotten and think of often to this day. (He was a wise man, and he read a lot. I'm not exactly sure where credit of thought lies.) This is what he told me:

Heaven and Hell are like two rooms that are exactly the same. In both rooms there are huge banquette tables filled with the most wonderful feast you can imagine. Food doesn't go bad, and there is an endless supply, open for the taking. In both of these rooms, the people don't have elbows. In Hell, the elbowless people are angry and starving, only being fed what they can selfishly mash their faces into. In Heaven, the elbowless people are happy and helping. They're feeding eachother.

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.



How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

[Rockinonahigh]

Your grandfather was a very wise man,never have I herd heaven and hell described better.
Rockin

[Gemme]

I've never heard that particular description of Heaven or Hell either. It's very interesting.

I think both are a personal thing and, therefore, everyone's Hell and Heaven would be specifically designed for them. The things that a person in Hell loathes and/or finds painful is what is abundant in his/her Hell. The things that someone in Heaven finds peaceful or joyful are what s/he sees....feels....breathes.

[iamkeri1]

I believe in neither heaven nor hell as I do not believe in life after death. I think it would be comforting to believe in an afterlife, since I would dearlu love some day to be re-united with my beloved who died six years ago. But, sorry to say, I can wrap neither my head, nor my heart around this concept.

But if I could believe in heaven, there is no way I could believe in hell, and I'll tell you why. If dont understand how anyone believing in god as creator/parent - you know "Our Father", (or Beloved Parent as I would word it) could believe in hell.

I have four kids. My teen boys have put me through every kind of "hell" you can think of since their dad died. Cursed me, wished me dead, run away from home for months at a time,stolen from me almost on a daily basis, been in trouble both in school and with the law many many times. At times I have wished I was the kind of parent who could just "run away" myself. Anyway, I am just a fallable human, not a god, or THE God and there is no way I could send these boys or anyone else to hell for all eternity. (with the possible exception of Lyndon Baines Johnson, who sent my brother to viet nam which lead ultimately to his death years later from Agent Orange Syndrome)

My thought towards these boys have been anything but loving on many occasions, but no, I could not damn them. Maybe I could roast them a little, for a very limited time, LOL, but definetly not for all eternity. So I don't think a parent-god could do this to his "children: either. Nope, don't believe in hell.
Smooches, (with a light coating of fire and brimstone on the lips - look out!)
Keri

[Diva]

Heaven and Hell

When I was a kid (under 10), I asked my Grandpa about Heaven and Hell. I wasn't sure what to fear or what to hope for. He put it in terms that I have never forgotten and think of often to this day. (He was a wise man, and he read a lot. I'm not exactly sure where credit of thought lies.) This is what he told me:

Heaven and Hell are like two rooms that are exactly the same. In both rooms there are huge banquette tables filled with the most wonderful feast you can imagine. Food doesn't go bad, and there is an endless supply, open for the taking. In both of these rooms, the people don't have elbows. In Hell, the elbowless people are angry and starving, only being fed what they can selfishly mash their faces into. In Heaven, the elbowless people are happy and helping. They're feeding eachother.

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.



How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?


This was lovely....especially the part I highlighted.....feeding one another.....

Love it.

I guess my heaven would be being reunited with my daughter....my Grandfather.....my Mom.........

My hell would be being in a room full of snakes and spiders. Or drowning over and over and over.....

I should stop and not give Satan any ideas.....<smile.

Thanks, Ry.........

[Ryobi]

I've never heard that particular description of Heaven or Hell either. It's very interesting.

I think both are a personal thing and, therefore, everyone's Hell and Heaven would be specifically designed for them. The things that a person in Hell loathes and/or finds painful is what is abundant in his/her Hell. The things that someone in Heaven finds peaceful or joyful are what s/he sees....feels....breathes.

Thanks for sharing.

Do you think one can change their Heaven or Hell? Maybe visit, instead of living in it?

[Ryobi]

I believe in neither heaven nor hell as I do not believe in life after death. I think it would be comforting to believe in an afterlife, since I would dearlu love some day to be re-united with my beloved who died six years ago. But, sorry to say, I can wrap neither my head, nor my heart around this concept.

But if I could believe in heaven, there is no way I could believe in hell, and I'll tell you why. If dont understand how anyone believing in god as creator/parent - you know "Our Father", (or Beloved Parent as I would word it) could believe in hell.

I have four kids. My teen boys have put me through every kind of "hell" you can think of since their dad died. Cursed me, wished me dead, run away from home for months at a time,stolen from me almost on a daily basis, been in trouble both in school and with the law many many times. At times I have wished I was the kind of parent who could just "run away" myself. Anyway, I am just a fallable human, not a god, or THE God and there is no way I could send these boys or anyone else to hell for all eternity. (with the possible exception of Lyndon Baines Johnson, who sent my brother to viet nam which lead ultimately to his death years later from Agent Orange Syndrome)

My thought towards these boys have been anything but loving on many occasions, but no, I could not damn them. Maybe I could roast them a little, for a very limited time, LOL, but definetly not for all eternity. So I don't think a parent-god could do this to his "children: either. Nope, don't believe in hell.
Smooches, (with a light coating of fire and brimstone on the lips - look out!)
Keri

Thanks Keri. I find what you said, interesting. I don't believe in religion. In the past I have been questioned about that. "If you don't believe in religion, why do you even think about heaven or hell?" I don't think they're the same thing and can have one with out the other.
Thanks again.

[Ryobi]

This was lovely....especially the part I highlighted.....feeding one another.....

Love it.

I guess my heaven would be being reunited with my daughter....my Grandfather.....my Mom.........

My hell would be being in a room full of snakes and spiders. Or drowning over and over and over.....

I should stop and not give Satan any ideas.....<smile.

Thanks, Ry.........



Thanks Diva. I wish you all of this Heaven and zero of this Hell.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Personally, I think this life is hell, and a practicing ground for what is ahead of us. We can make a difference in how we live life. We can be positive or negative. For me, I am trying to be positive. However, lately I have hit a very bumpy road with no brakes - going downhill quite fast.

[SuperFemme]

The Secrets of Heaven and Hell

The old monk sat by the side of the road. With his eyes closed, his legs crossed and his hands folded in his lap, he sat. In deep meditation he sat.
Suddenly his zazen was interrupted by the harsh and demanding voice of a samurai warrior. "Old man! Teach me about heaven and hell!"


At first, as though he had not heard, there was no perceptible response from the monk. But gradually he began to open his eyes, the faintest hint of a smile playing around the corners of his mouth as the samurai stood there, waiting impatiently, growing more and more agitated with each passing second.
"You wish to know the secrets of heaven and hell?" replied the monk at last. "You who are so unkempt. You whose hands and feet are covered with dirt. You whose hair is uncombed, whose breath is foul, whose sword is all rusty and neglected. You who are ugly and whose mother dresses you funny. You would ask me of heaven and hell?"


The samurai uttered a vile curse. He drew his sword and raised it high over his head. His face turned to crimson, and the veins of his neck stood out in bold relief as he prepared to sever the monk's head from its shoulders.


"That is hell," said the old monk gently, just as the sword began its descent.
In that fraction of a second, the samurai was overcome with amazement, awe, compassion and love for this gentle being who had dared to risk his very life to give him such a teaching. He stopped his sword in mid-flight and his eyes filled with grateful tears.


"And that," said the monk, "is heaven."

[Rockinonahigh]

I was raised in an italian catholic family.When Father rattled the keys to the church u can bet my grand parents were there.I went to the school there as well with more questions that were anserable..so many times I ask questions about what was taught and told to us about the bible and god and many times was told to sit down or they changed the sublect.For one over the years I have become less and less religous and more spritual.I beleave in a higher power that drives this universe we are in.I am more pegan in my beleafs about how the world evolves.I beleave in good karma,that we must take care of out earth it is the mother of us all.Heaven or Hell..well I think we deal with it in some form every day in life.I also beleave that whoever this higher power is needs to step in and end all the hurts and evil going on or are they testing the mettle of the human race to finely find away to live in a peaceful world that we should have.In school I was told that Jeasus/God loved all his children,made them as he wanted them,that he made no mistakes no matter how we lived on earth.Puzzleing thoughts to be shure.For me I will go on doing good things,liveing as peaceful a life as I can...keeping my karma in good order right along with treating my fellow man/woman /child or any of the many creatures on earth with dignaty,compassion and respect..love will come to those who earn it...not demand it.
Rockin

[Just_G]

My life is a little of both; heaven and hell. I could use a bit more heaven, but if I don't get through this hell I am in first, then I won't be a stronger, better person. My idea of hell is mild compared to what a lot of people are going through, but it is still hell to me.

The people in Haiti...THEY are going through hell right now!

[dreadgeek]

How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

I don't believe in either heaven or hell nor do I believe in any form of an afterlife. In fact, I think of heaven, hell and an afterlife as quite beside the point and a distraction to boot. I'll try to explain.

Both my parents are dead now. My father died 11 years ago, my mother died almost three years ago. While it could certainly be comforting if I believed that they still existed in some sweet by-and-by that would also allow me the luxury to believe that one day we'll see one another (provided, if you go in for Christian theology, I pick the right religion) again. It is a far more difficult challenge to accept that my parents are gone and that anything left unsaid is forever left unsaid. Holding onto the idea of a heaven where one day I'll be reunited with my parents, my grandmother and the childhood dog keeps me from doing the hard work of letting go.

Belief in a hell is similar in its effects but as opposed to providing the illusion that one day I'll be reunited with those I love, it provides conceit that one day all those who have gotten over in this life will 'get what's coming to them' in the afterlife. While there are times I would very much like to think that there's a place where Pat Robertson will know, in a full and complete measure, the true meaning of agony such a belief relieves me of the responsibility to do anything about injustice now. If I strive for justice and I fail, instead of picking myself up and trying again I can always just write it off with the idea that the cosmic books will get balanced in hell.

Lastly, I think that the idea of an afterlife encourages us to not fully live and appreciate our lives now. There is something very focusing about being in my early forties and realizing that at this point, I'm probably closer to the end of my life than the beginning of it. It means that whatever I'm going to get right I had better do so sooner rather than later because there are no second acts. Life is one act, one take, done in front of a live studio audience with no commercial breaks. Belief in an afterlife gives you multiple takes, multiple acts and so where's the pressure to get it right now?

One last thing about heaven and hell. While it may make folks uncomfortable to have this pointed out, largely heaven and hell are seen as reward or punishment. Do the right things (believe the right religion) and you go to heaven. Do the wrong things (believe the wrong religion) and you go to hell. To me, moral or ethical behavior, in order to truly be moral must be motivated solely for its own sake. If I am moral only because I want rewards in the sweet by-and-by I may not do a great deal of harm but I am not doing so for the right reasons.

Cheers
Aj

[The_Lady_Snow]

I enter the kingdom of heaven each time I swing a flogger, use a needle, a knife, my hands or I kick my boy down to the ground.. I am there in all its glory and warmth..

I passed through hell for a short visit, when I lived with my mother, and was married to Rod..

All that other hoovy groovy churchy stuff..

eh..

whatever...

[MsDemeanor]

What Aj said.

[Boots13]

On some innate level I don't want to be an amoeba just bumping along in my petri dish...my mind strays to thoughts of 'surely there must be more' !

I revolve my suspicious disposition from "show me the money" to "sold" because of my incremental brushes with the ultimate price...Is hell a near drowning, and heaven the hand of something greater that pops me out of it? Is hell looking down the business end of a shotgun and heaven found in the fact that it didn't go off? Is heaven found sitting on the top of the world surrounded by ...nothing? Whereby Hell would be a life of sitting on a couch surrounded by infomercials...

C'mon, the proof, give me proof ! Is hell a BBQ?

And when the shit hits the fan and I'm half a breath away from oblivion I need to know that while I am struggling, fighting, thinking, reacting clawing my way to survival, I can also call out from the depths of that immediate hell and hope the hand of something greater is poised to dispatch a little mercy....I want Heaven to be funky, vast, exploding
with life, light, knowledge, love and painless...make it painless.

And why do I think Heaven is inexplicably tied to Divine Intervention?

I want heaven to be directly connected to the hand of something greater than I. That "recovering Catholic" part of me needs to believe in that small detail. But NOT for the reasons of doing good, or the threat of molten
punishment, but more so wanting to know that the people and pets that I love, who have passed before me, are in a kinder, pain free place.

And after all that I'm where I usually end up after thinking about it...I'm less inclined to be guided by thoughts of Heaven or Hell and more apt to live my days contemplating Hope, Divine Intervention, Karma, blessings, Love and Right Action.

Compassion is extraordinary. The rest is details...

[Apocalipstic]

I don't per se believe in Hell and maybe not even Heaven.

But there are some lovely posts and views of what it might be like here. :)

[Gemme]

Thanks for sharing.

Do you think one can change their Heaven or Hell? Maybe visit, instead of living in it?

I think so. As we, as individuals, change and evolve, so do the things that we find pleasant or painful or real or unreal.

Some folks have made some really interesting points. While not agreeing wholeheartedly with AJ's post, I see something in it that I can use for myself. The last paragraph, especially.

The same thing with Snow's post. I'll never be the position of a Domme and be swinging that flogger, but I SEE it. I see where her joy and her Heaven could exist in that moment, just as I can SEE that AJ finds something else that I cannot but it is still valid and relevant.

I have been brought up to see Heaven and Hell as more of a final destination than a transitory, passing through kind of thing but I've thought about this quite a bit recently and, after reading the thoughts and feelings of some others, I think that it could be both.

I've been exposed to a multitude of religions and faiths and I've taken something away from each one, even if it's only "I don't want to do THAT again!". Perhaps that exposure allows me to be more fluid in my thoughts on topics like this. I like tangible stuff, but sometimes, you just have to "know" things without "proof" and the more options there are, the more I like it.

Our beliefs are all we really have in this life. Our belief in an afterlife (or none). Our belief in right and wrong (or not). Our belief that we are loved (or not). Our belief that our good deeds will be rewarded (or not). It's our beliefs that get us through tough times (which may or may not be seen as Hell). Our beliefs allow us to live our lives in the manner we prefer. When we live against the grain of ourselves, so to speak, then that creates discontent within ourselves. It really makes no matter what our beliefs are. It's all about us following our beliefs.

I'm having a really difficult time saying exactly what I want to say in this last paragraph. There's a message in there somewhere but right now my noggin is a bit slushy and my thoughts are coming at me like voices in the dark and then they're gone before I can get them on the screen. So, I'll throw this up there and come back when I'm feeling more clarity.

[SassyLeo]

My mother had been involved in “New Thought” for many years and eventually I became part of the church she co-founded about 12 years ago. It was a wonderful 5 years! The congregation is led by an African American Lesbian minister and her life-partner, also African American, led the music ministry. They were both raised in very fundamental traditional “black churches”. I was very involved- taking classes, participating in groups and the best part, for me, being part of the Gospel choir. Mind you, the church was incredibly progressive and embodied belief systems from all over the world. I loved singing traditional music, with a slight twist of new/more inclusive words and energy. Very woo-woo :D

Anyway, a number of years ago, I was having a discussion with a colleague, I’ll call her Lisa. Lisa had recently delved back into her faith and had begun attending a Lutheran church with her husband and little girl. She was really enjoying it…and so we would share stories and talk about the differences in our beliefs, but also what we shared. Although I think she liked much of the traditional belief systems, she was somewhat liberal. Meaning, she was not homophobic. And in fact, very open.

Lisa was telling me about how she and several other women from the church had a get together with the minister’s wife at her house. They were all talking about heaven and hell. Lisa was asking her questions and one in particular she really struggled with.

The wife was telling her that they believe that in order to go to heaven, you must believe in Jesus/God/be a Christian/follow the Christian “way”. And if you don’t, you will go to hell.

So the conversation went like this:

Lisa: “What about my friends and family who aren’t an active Christians or I’m not sure what they believe…they are all going to hell?”

The wife: “Well, that is what we believe. We believe that it is best to live as Christians”

Lisa: “So everyone I know who isn’t a Christian or isn’t a practicing Christian, they are all going to hell?”

The wife: “Well, yes…”

Lisa: “Well that is hard for me to hear and understand. These are people I love and just because they don’t believe as I do, they go to hell? What if they are Jewish? It just doesn’t make sense to me”

And so she came back to work on Monday and was really struggling with how to reconcile her feelings. I told her that because I don’t believe in heaven and hell, I could not speak to her specific situation, but encouraged her to follow her heart.

This still sticks with me. My belief is that God (Spirit, Goddess…) does not discriminate and is completely inclusive of all walks of life.

When I die, they can take all the parts they need to save people and then cremate me.

I’m fine with that :D

[Lusciousblondefemme]

Being raised Roman Catholic I believed all my life about Heaven and Hell... But as I get older I wonder what is really true that was written in the bible.

I wonder how someone could create Heaven and Hell and Earth and all the people on the earth but then have his message be sent through people who spread hatred and molest innocent children. I wonder how one can believe in hell if God says that he forgives all as long as you repent.

I wonder why God created me since I am gay and he supposedly hates gay people.

See as I get older I have alot of questions that I will never have answered because after all I can not have a sit down with God himself.. Now Can I

So Heaven and Hell are not in my future I guess that I will be in Limbo until someone proves to me that there is undoubtfully a Heaven and Hell ...

Or Until there is Equality for ALL..

[Allison W]

Heaven and Hell

When I was a kid (under 10), I asked my Grandpa about Heaven and Hell. I wasn't sure what to fear or what to hope for. He put it in terms that I have never forgotten and think of often to this day. (He was a wise man, and he read a lot. I'm not exactly sure where credit of thought lies.) This is what he told me:

Heaven and Hell are like two rooms that are exactly the same. In both rooms there are huge banquette tables filled with the most wonderful feast you can imagine. Food doesn't go bad, and there is an endless supply, open for the taking. In both of these rooms, the people don't have elbows. In Hell, the elbowless people are angry and starving, only being fed what they can selfishly mash their faces into. In Heaven, the elbowless people are happy and helping. They're feeding eachother.

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.



How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

I'm an atheist, admittedly, so my views on the two are perhaps similar to AJ's. Specifically, that while notions of heaven may provide (some, limited) comfort to the grieving or dying, notions of heaven and hell are still dangerous--due to the way that so many foolish, short-sighted people have used heaven to justify doing foolish, short-sighted things on the supposed grounds that this life doesn't matter anyway and the afterlife is all we have to be concerned about, and the way that so many (mostly the same) foolish, short-sighted people use the notion of hell to fearmonger.

No, I'm not talking about all believers--but those people are out there, even today, with horrific, even lethal, consequences.

That said, your grandfather's story sounds like an apt description of--or perhaps recipe for--heaven and hell on Earth. Taken as a metaphor for the effects of kindness and selfishness, respectively, in the real world, it is very wise indeed.

[adorable]

I believe in Heaven and Hell on earth. That we all have free will but that God will lead us if we will follow and turn our will over to him. I find that the older I get, the stronger my faith becomes. I think it's because I get closer to my Truth in each passing day. I am damaged and imperfect. I struggle with things that other people seem to do with ease. When I decide to give, I give what I have as completely as possible. That is all I can do. Just try.

"Faith without works is dead." I try to live that faith. It is so difficult to do. At the end of the day I have to answer to myself. I need to live with me, my heart and I make sure that God & I know the truth ~ even if no one else does. People may never understand me EVER but I like to think God at least tries. lol.

I get lost in religion and hocus pocus of it all....to believe that the good somehow get rewarded and the bad get punished in some sort of an afterlife - I don't see the point. Good works are returned 10 fold on earth. Bad deeds come back with Karma. What you reap is what you sow.......

[IrishGrrl]

Since I dont feel like a long post let me just get to the jist of it..

I think it's all bullshit.

[Soft*Silver]

I worry naught about what lies beyond. I worry Now what I am presently part of, and if I am doing all I can to make this world a better place, to do as little harm as others and to be a responsible human. If there is a hell, I will be so disappointed in that kind of God. He is no better than a slum lord....

[Andrew, Jr.]

I do believe in Heaven and Hell. I think that how you live your life here will determine your after-life. It is something that always have thought and believed in. It is my hope, desire, and prayers said that this is my truth - nobody else's, mine alone. I believe that there are tiers in Heaven and Hell. Like the famous saying, you reap what you sew, that determines your after-life tier.

[Odarlin]

...
And when the shit hits the fan and I'm half a breath away from oblivion I need to know that while I am struggling, fighting, thinking, reacting clawing my way to survival, I can also call out from the depths of that immediate hell and hope the hand of something greater is poised to dispatch a little mercy....I want Heaven to be funky, vast, exploding
with life, light, knowledge, love and painless...make it painless.

And why do I think Heaven is inexplicably tied to Divine Intervention?

I want heaven to be directly connected to the hand of something greater than I. That "recovering Catholic" part of me needs to believe in that small detail. But NOT for the reasons of doing good, or the threat of molten
punishment, but more so wanting to know that the people and pets that I love, who have passed before me, are in a kinder, pain free place.

And after all that I'm where I usually end up after thinking about it...I'm less inclined to be guided by thoughts of Heaven or Hell and more apt to live my days contemplating Hope, Divine Intervention, Karma, blessings, Love and Right Action.

Compassion is extraordinary. The rest is details...
But, but... that's where the devil dwells!:runforhills:


(Love this post. :farmer: )

[BornBronson]

Yes,I believe in a Heaven and a Hell.What they are exactly is something we'll all have to wait and see.

I have been reading the bible,but i'm pretty careful what i read.I don't go to church,cause i don't think i'll find all the answers i'm looking for there,either.

All I can do is study these things called the ten commandments.I do believe someone very wise wrote them.Someone who was trying to tell us how to get along with our fellow human beings.And if we break them,we will only be punishing ourselves.In my heart I see the truth,I can't escape that.I don't have all the answers,but I don't think anyone here on earth really does.If you go by the truth,speak the truth,and hear it when it is spoken,then you can't go wrong.

Oh nice,now I have a headache.

[lipstixgal]

I'm Jewish so I don;t believe in heaven or hell but an afterlife at least that is what the Rabbi says!!:blink:

[Kobi]

I am a recovered Catholic.

I do not believe in heaven or hell because this would mean the Creator distinguishes between good and bad, right or wrong. Judgement, I believe, is a humanmade concept designed to enslave people to a certain train of thought and behavior i.e. religion.

I believe the Creator made an incredbily complex piece of machinery in developing life and living as we know it. I believe the Creator judges nothing but marvels at what humankind has made of the miracle of life.

I do believe in an afterlife, where we return to the whole and are once again made whole.

[lipstixgal]

I am a recovered Catholic.

I do not believe in heaven or hell because this would mean the Creator distinguishes between good and bad, right or wrong. Judgement, I believe, is a humanmade concept designed to enslave people to a certain train of thought and behavior i.e. religion.

I believe the Creator made an incredbily complex piece of machinery in developing life and living as we know it. I believe the Creator judges nothing but marvels at what humankind has made of the miracle of life.

I do believe in an afterlife, where we return to the whole and are once again made whole.



Kobi that's what the Jews believe in an afterlife!!

[Ebon]

What I believe about Heaven and Hell as it pertains to death. When we die we go through a life review, depending on the type of person we have been and the way we have treated others depends on how the life review goes. It could be Heaven (if you've had good intentions) or it could be Hell (if you have bad intentions and didn't learn from them). This will all be judged by ourselves. Just my belief.

[Passionaria]

Well, I can say three things for sure. I know heaven and hell exist on earth, as I have been to both places. I know there are forces of dark and light, as this a world of duality, and that our minds judge them based on belief systems. I also know that there is a spirit world, and that is a place there, akin to paradise because I have been brought there in the dream time. That's all I know for sure.

:tea:Pashi

[2myladyblue]

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.

How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?

Great idea for a thread, Ry! And I like your Grandpa's explanation...it seems to have had a profound impact on your life.

I don't believe in heaven or hell, per se... except to say that I believe we make our own (kinda in a What Dreams May Come sorta way). So, it doesn't apply to my daily life, really. I mean, I believe in being a "good" person & living my life to the best of my ability & helping when I can, but I don't believe that I (or anyone else) will be "punished" by any higher power. I believe we reward & punish ourselves everyday.

:blueheels:
~LadyBlue

[cinderella]

To me (my cynical version), heaven is when you receive an orgasim by the one you love, and hell, is when you don't.

[Sam]

I have been told many a times that i'm going to hell with gasoline drawers on.

i often wonder if either exist.

[Passionaria]

To me (my cynical version), heaven is when you receive an orgasim by the one you love, and hell, is when you don't.



:threadjack: AMEN sister!!!

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go back to your regular programming now.......TYVM AHH look at that baby face, SMOKEY!

[Converse]

Can’t think of the name of that movie… someone will I’m sure. But the premise was this… You die, then you go to this town looks kinda like vegas but the slot machines always pay. And while you are there you are assigned an attorney who argues your case in court- and the case you have to prove- is that while on earth you lived your life without fear taking charge. If you won you got a free ticket to heaven, if you lost well then back to earth to start all over again.

No hell, just a need to do it right while you are here.
:supermanbooth:

[Toughy]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. They belong to the mythology of those who follow the monotheist God of Abraham.

I object to all good things being heaven and all bad things being hell. I'm tired of your ideas of polar opposites being the truth.

I'm not a happy human. The President of my country just told me to pray to a singular God for help, hope and guidance............He said God................

thanks Mr President for your inclusiveness and decidedly lackluster response to BP and corporations in general. Thanks ever so much for validating the idea that money has more value.......is a more ethical view.... than people.

[BornBronson]

Yes,I believe in a Heaven and a Hell.What they are exactly is something we'll all have to wait and see.

I have been reading the bible,but i'm pretty careful what i read.I don't go to church,cause i don't think i'll find all the answers i'm looking for there,either.

All I can do is study these things called the ten commandments.I do believe someone very wise wrote them.Someone who was trying to tell us how to get along with our fellow human beings.And if we break them,we will only be punishing ourselves.In my heart I see the truth,I can't escape that.I don't have all the answers,but I don't think anyone here on earth really does.If you go by the truth,speak the truth,and hear it when it is spoken,then you can't go wrong.

Oh nice,now I have a headache.

Sometimes I need to come back to my words.No,it's not a headache.It's the truth that hurts,when you fight it.

I thought our president was a Muslim.Regardless,he believes there is a God.Good for him.

I still want him OUT of office.

[apretty]

I thought our president was a Muslim.



your posts intrigue me to no end.

this time, i'm wondering how you came to the conclusion that our president is muslim?

[BornBronson]

They do??

I just thought he was,my mistake.

What religion does he practice anyway..do you know?.

[Enchantress]

I believe that we step back and forth between heaven and hell every day.

Are there pearly gates that part to welcome us as angels beckon with song? More than likely not.

Is there something after life? I believe so.

I subscribe to the thought that what we put out in life is what we receive in the end. It's an energy that is palpable and alive.

We find heaven on a daily basis. There are bits of it in every moment that we experience. There is proof that it exists. Unfortunately we simply choose not to see it (or can't because outside stimuli keeps our walls inpenetrable).

The same theory can be ascribed to Hell. In every moment there is a bit of it. It lurks and works to pull us in. Again, it's what we choose to see, believe and feel. Hell is subjective. It is not Dantes version of fire and brimstone (although I do believe that Nimrods exist as I come in to contact with at least one daily). Instead it (in my opinion) manifests itself into that which we fear and abhor the most.

All energy is connected. The good, the bad and the ugly (Thanks Hollywood for the phrase). Therefore Heaven and Hell are connected as well.

There's a balance beam and we (gingerly) walk it daily.

Choose love, kindness, grace and humility. In doing so (I believe) you guarantee soulful existence surrounded in these energies after death...

[MsDemeanor]

I thought our president was a Muslim.
I just thought he was,my mistake.
There were about a bazillion news stories about this lie that was fabricated by conservatives. I'm gonna guess that you get your "news" from Glenn Beck.

[Toughy]

They do??

I just thought he was,my mistake.

What religion does he practice anyway..do you know?.


He is a Christian. Do you really care which version of Christianity he practices.....Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc?

Why does it matter if he is Muslim or Christian or Jewish or Pagan or believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or is atheist?

[Nat]

I might believe in heaven, though I don't know what I think about it being an afterlife experience. I have lots of ideas about the afterlife - and for all I know, it really is just turning out the lights. I would prefer otherwise, and I don't mind entertaining more pleasant theories. However, I think heaven and hell may be experiences we can have concurrent with life.

I cannot say what exists for other people, but I this quote has resonance for me. There have been times during meditation where I feel I have reached a place of beauty and mystery that is so profound and pleasurable that heaven would be a way to describe it.

In every one of us, if we can still our questing heart and our puzzling mind, there is a secret doorway. Who knows how you will find this doorway? Through great suffering, so that one day you turn inside and in anguish stumble upon the key there in your heart? Through reading the lines of a poem? or hearing the words of a song that lead you to this hidden place? Or will it be when you grow old? When the seeking of fame and fortune, of possession and distraction weary you at last? and you take the first deliberate steps towards a discovery of the soul that breathes within you. However you journey to this doorway, however young or old, however driven by sadness or delight in exploring, once you turn its handle and step forward into the realm this doorway reveals, your life will change forever. For you will discover there the land that is known to the Druids and Celts as ..."The Land of Eternal Youth" , some call it..."The Land of Promise," others..."The Land of Honey". It is the secret heaven within each one of us, that if we dare to enter, we discover it is not binded by the limits of our mind or soul but is coexistent with the Universe. There we never age and live in perfect health and joy, feeding our hearts with the love of all creation and expressing our beauty and our strength in acts of noble generosity and courage. For some, it is easy to travel to this place - they have learnt the ways and know the routes that magic in the days of old have laid upon this trackless land, and they come and go through this doorway, refreshing their bodies, hearts and minds, bringing with them the gifts of youthfulness, of healing and of art.

from druidcast episode 3 (http://c1.libsyn.com/media/18840/DruidCast__Show_03_-_OBOD.mp3?nvb=20100630124038&nva=20100701125038&sid=4d5aa752ccc512c53618e7d635cc808f&t=050aee5219bdc4bf8d25c)

[Mrs. Strutt]

I believe in heaven. I don't believe in hell. I think there is a beautiful place our souls go when this life is ended and, if we choose, we can do "the life thing" all over again. Or not.

I don't believe there is a Satan or a hell. The God I love bears no resemblance to the needy, neurotic being taught and used by fundamentalist Christianity to brainwash/frighten people into accepting their belief systems and allow them control over their lives. My God doesn't need a "devil" to conquer because He/She is far bigger than that in my eyes.

[Bob]

I thought our president was a Muslim.

Oh, wow, I feel so stupid! I thought he was a MUSLIN, which according to Wikipedia is "..often used to make dresses or curtains but may also be used to complement foam for bench padding."

There goes my BP conspiracy theory too!

[dreadgeek]

Sometimes I need to come back to my words.No,it's not a headache.It's the truth that hurts,when you fight it.

I thought our president was a Muslim.Regardless,he believes there is a God.Good for him.

I still want him OUT of office.

Can you explain WHY you thought he was a Muslim? I'm just curious if there is any reason--any piece of evidence at all--or did you just leap to this conclusion? He went to a UCC church in Chicago. He goes to, I believe, a Methodist church in DC. He says he's a Christian. So is there something about Mr. Obama that you know that he doesn't know about himself?

Btw. what if he didn't believe in God? What difference would it make?

And actually, what if he WAS a Muslim? Then what? What if he were a Hindu? Or a Buddhist? What possible relevance could his religion have to how he does his job as POTUS?

[Apocalipstic]

On the original question....In the words of the late greatest John Lennon....

"No hell below us, above us only sky!"

On the more recent discussion...

Why would it be a problem if President Obama were Muslim? Alledgedly the USA believes in division between church and state.

:praying:

[dreadgeek]

On the original question....In the words of the late greatest John Lennon....

"No hell below us, above us only sky!"

On the more recent discussion...

Why would it be a problem if President Obama were Muslim? Alledgedly the USA believes in division between church and state.

:praying:

There is also this inconvenient piece from the Constitution:

...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

That is Article VI of the Constitution. Someone--I forget who it is at the top of my head--wrote that Article VI applies all the way down to the citizenry such that if we impose a religious test for office we are in violation of the spirit of the Constitution.

We should not take into account the religion of any person running for public office. When I was growing up religion was a private affair, a matter of individual conscience. I find it terribly ironic that those who would style themselves super-patriots, the last true lovers of America would be so quick to apply a religious test for office while many of us freethinkers, attached to no religion in particular or holding loosely to something like Buddhism (as I do) apply no religious test.

Ironies abound in modern America.

[Ryobi]

I saw this thread active today and had the time, finally, to come in here. I read through posts and now the last few are a political debate? What?

Can that chunk of this threat be taken to the "red zone"? Or can one of you posting in that particular debate, start a thread in the political section? I have things to say on that subject too, not what I intended for this thread.

Thanks for understanding. I'm going to go find all the thoughts that went flying out of my head earlier. Jeezus people! Give a dyslectic, ADD brother a break. LOL! when I find them, I'll be back.

[Apocalipstic]

Back on subject..

Logically I do not believe that there is a Heaven and Hell.

If people focused on being a good person today, instead of acting however because they think they can repent and will have a better life in Heaven, the world would be far more peaceful.

On the other hand, it is so comforting to think of my Mother and my dog Mac watching over me from somewhere wonderful.

[Ryobi]

apocalipstic, for you and Mac. "If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went". ~Will Rogers~

I have enjoyed all the comments and ideas posted here. I don't believe in religion. I believe it's ALL, every one of them, a brainwashing. I also believe that, if you are talking religion, satanism must be included. It's a religion just as valid as any other. (did you know, the military will now state "satanism" on dog tags as a persons religion, instead of "non" like they once did. Score one for the red devils! (that's not why I think it's a valid religion, btw.))

There was a time in my life, when I only thought about heaven. All of my attention was turned to seeing only good things. I will admit, I saw a lot of good. Then I realized, I had gotten so good at pushing all the bad out of my mind, and keeping it out of my "sight", it was getting harder and harder to be the person I was striving to be. It had clouded me to the reality of human suffering. Including my own. Just because I was unwilling at the time to see it, doesn't mean that it didn't exist, everywhere. I started to make an effort to see bad, to see hell, if you will. In doing that, it became easier for me to be me. That person I was striving for. I think that seeing both good and bad in my life, and around me, is exactly what I needed. It opened my mind and my heart to really enjoy and cherish the good. I no longer take the good for granted like I once did, and I try to find "the silver lining" in the bad if there is one to be found. Accepting both makes me feel like a better person. It also reminds me that, I can be a better person still.

I think everyone of us has our own personal heaven and hell. And, I also think that it's up to each one to decide where they are willing to live most often.

These thoughts come from a very personal space for me. They include no one but me.

[SelfMadeMan]

I've come full circle in my religious (and now happily NOT religious) beliefs, and I don't believe in the concept of heaven or hell the way Christianity would have me buy into it. I am a born again agnostic and I can't help but think that belief in a religious afterlife keeps one from fully living in the here and now. I hear people all the time say not to focus on their "worldly life" and to remain focused on the afterlife... that just doesn't sit well with me. What if they're wrong? What if you deny yourself all your life, and live life the way some book or preacher tells you to, only to get to the end and there be nothing? If I'm wrong, I will have lived one hell of a full, fun life - and have lived it the way I choose, doing what makes me happy & complete.. and I'll take whatever comes in the end. I still feel better about my option. I am a positive person, I try to do for others, live a good life, I am a good parent, husband, friend... I am a decent person. So if I'm wrong, I can look back on my life and know that I left love behind.

[chefhmboyrd]

i don't believe in either.....
and i don't believe that the bible is the "word of god" sent down to man via the celestial dictaphone
IMO
man wrote the bible,
man made god to control the masses.....

"god" lives within us
therefore We are the gods......
Somos Dioses.........

that being said, i think of my life now as heavenly and my life before T as hellish.....

it wasn't entirely bad, i have lots of great friends and memories...
((((((Apocolipstic)))))) :bunchflowers:

but i hated "her" so badly and wanted to die most of the time, that was in fact HELL.:seeingstars:

my life since...........
i stabbed "her" to death repeatedly with a 200mg of T every other week......

has been heavenly

[Tommi]

I think Medusa must think she's in hell about now.

Hell Yeah

[ravfem]

i was raised Church of God, and had to attend every Sunday until i reached 16 (for whatever reason it became my choice then). Heaven was where you went if you were a good, god-fearing christian, as defined by COG standards. Hell was for everyone else.

i started questioning the whole religion thing while in high school, and ID'd as agnostic for a couple of years, until i finally "came out" as atheist. One of my first questions was, "how do we know the bible wasn't written by people sitting around the campfire, passing a pipe around?" my next one was, "If god made us, who made god? Where did god come from?" and "if every single person on earth all came from one couple, then incest was accepted and widely practiced back in the day, huh?"

And for racist christians, including most of my bio-family, i point out that according to their bible, we all came from Adam & Eve, so.....

i believe people use religion as a crutch. All good things that happen to them are because they're good christians. All bad things aren't their fault, it's the devil trying to tempt them.

Miracles are credited to god. Bad things are the work of the devil. If your belief strong & true, you'll do just fine. If you misbehave, you'll burn forever.

It's like the police, or laws. Religion tries to keep people from doing "bad" things.

Only religion is much more judgmental & hypocritical. i don't need a book or a person to tell me how to behave or live.

i try to do the right thing and try to live by good morals & ethics. i try not to hate people or be mean to them, even if i don't like them. i try to treat others like i want to be treated. i wish more christians lived like that.

i believe when i die, i die. The end. Like someone else said, i've got it set up so that the medical community can take what's left that is useful, and cremate the rest.

[imperfect_cupcake]

"when will the Kingdom come?"
"it is is already here but men do not see it."

Basically, this is what I believe. I'm functionally Atheist, but I grove on good metaphor. The eternal, heaven, hell, the Kingdom, etc is here, now. it's up to us to see it and live it.

I know when I'm trapped in my own hell. I know when I'm in an eternal moment. There's no afterlife. it's all here, now. Right now.

[wolfboi]

Heaven and Hell
i was raised a catholic . my mother was a devoted catholic . there is most diffinately a heaven a beutiful place were you seen your loved ones when you pass . and as for hell yes there is a devil around every corner trying to get your soul . so believe in jesus and everything in your life will be awesome
When I was a kid (under 10), I asked my Grandpa about Heaven and Hell. I wasn't sure what to fear or what to hope for. He put it in terms that I have never forgotten and think of often to this day. (He was a wise man, and he read a lot. I'm not exactly sure where credit of thought lies.) This is what he told me:

Heaven and Hell are like two rooms that are exactly the same. In both rooms there are huge banquette tables filled with the most wonderful feast you can imagine. Food doesn't go bad, and there is an endless supply, open for the taking. In both of these rooms, the people don't have elbows. In Hell, the elbowless people are angry and starving, only being fed what they can selfishly mash their faces into. In Heaven, the elbowless people are happy and helping. They're feeding eachother.

In my daily life, I try to feed. And in-turn, get fed. There are days that I'm angry and starving. Those days have become far and few between in my personal growth. I have learned how to get my ass back to Heaven.



How do you view Heaven and Hell? How does it apply to your daily life?
.
i was raised a catholic . my mom was adevoted catholic . there is most

[Ryobi]

I think Medusa must think she's in hell about now.

Hell Yeah

I think if there really were manuals for everything, the one for "site ownership" would have fine print that reads, "no matter what your intentions or how often you bend over backwards to bring them a little piece of heaven, they will give you hell."

[friskyfemme]

A simple description of my belief in heaven and hell is that each of us create our own based on the position we are in life when we reflect on the existence of each.

That being said and possibly 'clear as mud' to some, Let me explain my belief. First of all I believe we always exist as a spiritual being. At points in time we exist as spirit and an incarnate being. In our pure spiritual state, we are 'perfectbeings'. Being perfect does not allow us to grow or to experience emotions. So we choose to incarnate in order to grow our spirit. We do ths many times living many lifes. In some lifetimes we are the victor, the perpetrator, and others the underdog, or the victim. In each life we set out to learn the lessons we wish to learn, we bring with us other spirits that help us experience what we need to experience to learn our lessons. We choose our limitations and our challenges to overcome in order to meet our life's goal. Others present us with love, hate, gain, and loss (these are the variables for change in our life's plan). We don't know when are how these present themselves. We each,too, present the unknowns to others along our life's path. Living in a physical embodiment is our choice. Meeting and learning our lessons is our commitment to ourself and to our fellow spirits. Of course the difficulty we have is that we enter each life armed only with the knowledge and experience we need for our current life. So in essesence every life is a new beginning. With each death in each lifetime we grow our spirit. In spirit we are one. So as we grow our own spirit, we grow the composite spirit 'Great Spirit'. In this we are only as great as our least human and only as small as our greatest human in our lifetime. This of course is the preamble for our organized relgions, our cultures ,and our laws.

As some are thinking now, then how can we be one in Spirit and be so diverse in our beliefs, our treatment of others. It is pretty simple, these are our challenges. Whether we can set aside our differences to help each other, will determine whether we grow or diminish our own spirit and ultimately 'Great Spirit'. Blessings to all.

[Starbuck]

Heaven is going to be what you want it to be. Do you want all the saints around so you can ask any question you want? Do you just want to worship Father God? Or do you want to explore the beauties of heaven, the waterfalls, the scenery, read books and gain knowledge? It all depends, IMHO, on what you want to do, perhaps all of it a little at a time.

Hell, on the contrary, is HOT AND MISERABLE. You know that burning lake of fire you've heard about? Yeah, it's waiting for ya if you don't live your life right baby. God loves us and wants to save us from that! My granddad scared the daylights out of me about hell when I was young, telling me how all you do is burn, you're in pain, you're tongue swells up in your mouth, your throat is dry and cracked, and YOU CAN'T HAVE A DRINK OF WATER! That sounds awful!!! That's not for me man, I've got a ticket to the big show! Been baptized and everything and proud of it sugar!

[Sachita]

I don't believe in heaven or hell other then metaphor. For some reason people need these contrasts, good and evil, right and wrong, in order to manage their lives. They then can add the trappings of guilt, failure and all the other things the ego gets to rule and control. But to each their own. You need what you need to take your journey.

[Nightshade]

Lastly, I think that the idea of an afterlife encourages us to not fully live and appreciate our lives now.

This! And:

One last thing about heaven and hell. While it may make folks uncomfortable to have this pointed out, largely heaven and hell are seen as reward or punishment.

This!

I am here to live my life now, with as much integrity and honesty as I can because I believe that's how quality is achieved, for both myself and those around me. Not because of some threat or promise of a comeuppance in an afterlife.

[Ryobi]

I don't believe in heaven or hell other then metaphor. For some reason people need these contrasts, good and evil, right and wrong, in order to manage their lives. They then can add the trappings of guilt, failure and all the other things the ego gets to rule and control. But to each their own. You need what you need to take your journey.

I like this post! I also believe ego has a huge part of people's personal hell. And even without the ego, I believe the heaven and hell we live is all self imposed. I too see them as metaphors, and not places I will go to but, places I visit regularly. I don't spend much time in hell though. I know I deserve much more than to do that. (and I think I'm much friendlier when not in hell. lol)

[princessbelle]

I used to believe in heaven and hell.

Not so much anymore. I do believe in an afterlife or new life. I don't think our spirits end when we take our last breath. As i've posted before I have had an afterlife experience so i know something is out there. And, being a nurse I've seen things that you would not believe at all.

Being brought up southern Baptist it was brainwashed into my head as far back as i can remember. Good=heaven. Bad=hell.

However, with maturity I have come to realize that it isn't so cut and dry.

Good people can do bad things sometimes. Bad people can do good things.

The lines are too fuzzy to know where they cross. With that thought it sorta proves, IMO, that the places of heaven and hell are man's way of promoting Hierarchy in a world full of "better than you" thought behaviours.

I have choosen not to worry bout it anymore. I have choosen to believe when i leave here I go back to the place i've seen. I don't know if it was heaven. I don't care. I just know it was beautiful and parts of my family are there now.

[Venus007]

There is no destination hell or heaven, there is only this life and what we make of it NOW. There is no grand reward or punishment there is only this life and for 75 (if we are lucky) years we make our way, pay our consequences, accept our lot, revel in joy and suffer in sorrow, flow in love. All of it is NOW, a fleeting, glorious, heart breaking, careening, amazing, joyful ride through time to the end.
Amazing, isn't it?

[Ryobi]

I used to believe in heaven and hell.

Not so much anymore. I do believe in an afterlife or new life. I don't think our spirits end when we take our last breath. As i've posted before I have had an afterlife experience so i know something is out there. And, being a nurse I've seen things that you would not believe at all.

Being brought up southern Baptist it was brainwashed into my head as far back as i can remember. Good=heaven. Bad=hell.

However, with maturity I have come to realize that it isn't so cut and dry.

Good people can do bad things sometimes. Bad people can do good things.

The lines are too fuzzy to know where they cross. With that thought it sorta proves, IMO, that the places of heaven and hell are man's way of promoting Hierarchy in a world full of "better than you" thought behaviours.

I have choosen not to worry bout it anymore. I have choosen to believe when i leave here I go back to the place i've seen. I don't know if it was heaven. I don't care. I just know it was beautiful and parts of my family are there now.

I'm sorry if your experience wasn't a good one, or the means to having the experience I should say. Wow, what a lucky thing, a sneak peek! I would believe every story you have. I worked 3.5 years in a nursing home while in college. I have some amazing stories to tell also. I think working there has had a lot to do with how I see some things now.

And I 100% agree with the scare tactics used in a "better than you" hack up manor is just what you said, "mans way of promoting hierarchy".

[Ryobi]

There is no destination hell or heaven, there is only this life and what we make of it NOW. There is no grand reward or punishment there is only this life and for 75 (if we are lucky) years we make our way, pay our consequences, accept our lot, revel in joy and suffer in sorrow, flow in love. All of it is NOW, a fleeting, glorious, heart breaking, careening, amazing, joyful ride through time to the end.
Amazing, isn't it?

Yes! It is amazing! Thank you for this post.

[princessbelle]

I'm sorry if your experience wasn't a good one, or the means to having the experience I should say. Wow, what a lucky thing, a sneak peek! I would believe every story you have. I worked 3.5 years in a nursing home while in college. I have some amazing stories to tell also. I think working there has had a lot to do with how I see some things now.

And I 100% agree with the scare tactics used in a "better than you" hack up manor is just what you said, "mans way of promoting hierarchy".

Ryobi, my experience when i was 16 was absolutely beautiful and peaceful. It was the best place i've ever been. Sorry i sorta left that out...lol. Yes it was a sneak peak you are right. I suppose that is why death does not scare me at all and helps me be a better hospice nurse when people are crossing over.

I TOTALLY agree with you working in a nursing home you have some stories as well. "We" are very fortunate to have seen things that others would not believe and it does help us make our determination of the afterlife.

Great thread.