What is Forgiveness?

[Blade]

There are many events that happen in our lives from childhood to current events that require us to forgive. Maybe abuse, or something a friend said or did or your parents or a spouse or partner. Sometimes we even have to find a way to forgive strangers.

How do you deal with forgiveness? Are there steps you take or processes you go through in your mind or physically. What do you do to forgive and really mean it?

I read a list that opened my eyes just a bit ago, and got me to thinking.


What Forgiveness is not
Forgiveness is not condoning unkindness
Forgiveness is not forgetting that what happened was painful
Forgiveness is not excusing poor behavior
Forgiveness is not denying or minimizing your hurt
Forgiveness does not mean reconciling with the offender
Forgiveness does not mean you give up having feelings


What is Forgiveness
Forgiveness is for you not the offender
Forgiveness is taking back your power
Forgiveness is taking responsibility for how you feel
Forgiveness is about your healing not about the person that hurt you
Forgiveness isa trainable skill just like learning to throw a ball
Forgiveness is a choice
Forgiveness is becoming the hero instead of the victim


Let's talk about forgiveness, as we all have to deal with it in some form or another at various times of our lives

[Lady Jewel]

In order to save MYSELF, I HAD to forgive the man who raped and beat me within an inch of my life. It was a cancer that grew and ate at me, until it almost destroyed me. So I forgave him in my heart. But forget? NEVER. EVER. I feel compassion towards him that in his fucked up mind he felt by raping me, it would prove his love for me. And that by beating me up, he would scare me into submisson. I forgive that. But forget? NEVER. My forgiveness of him was ALL for me. THAT he couldnt beat or rape out of me,

In unity,
Jewel

[The_Lady_Snow]

I can forgive...

I will not forget though...

[Andrew, Jr.]

I will have to come back and post on this.

[Andrew, Jr.]

For me, and me alone, I believe in forgiveness. It is apart of unconditional love. I also believe it is an attitude. You have to make the decision yourself, by yourself, to forgive someone. I trust God to judge other's and their behavior.

For example, my bio-father was abusive. Nothing can change his behavior. I have to accept him, but forgive his behavior and move on. I cannot change the past. It haunts me to this very day. I cannot understand it. It makes no sense to me. It is the same as a parent who discovers their child who took nude pictures of themselves and posted them on the internet for all to see. You love your child, but hate the behavior.

Some people believe in Karma. I do as well. However, Karma isn't just about the bad things in life. It is also about the good things too. What comes around goes around. Both good and bad.

Namaste,
Andrew

[Andrew, Jr.]

BUMP de BUMP BUMP

[christie]

Mostly, I find forgiving myself the most difficult.

[femmy1]

There are several people/situations that I am having trouble finding forviness for. I wish it was easier but I am stuck... I am working on it, that's all I can say.

Seems like the more you need to give it, the harder it is sometimes to give.

f1~

[Blade]

Mostly, I find forgiving myself the most difficult.
Sometimes this is also difficult for me. I realize I am fallible, I make mistakes and sometimes make choices that I live to regret. Usually with the latter it is a choice from the heart instead of from my head. I'm probably having a little trouble forgiving myself for some of those choices at this time.

There are several people/situations that I am having trouble finding forviness for. I wish it was easier but I am stuck... I am working on it, that's all I can say.

Seems like the more you need to give it, the harder it is sometimes to give.

f1~
I agree with this too femmy. I need to give it up real bad, but it just isn't happening. Not right now it isn't. But I keep praying for the release and the ability to forgive. I hope it is soon

[Andrew, Jr.]

Forgiveness is not easy. Not by a long shot. For example, I was falsely accused of raping a woman at work. No lie. She went to management and claimed I put my hands all over her, and I raped her. Well, they took her statement. Next they called me in, and took my statement. It was short and sweet. It read "I was working on the dock. The videotape of me is in security. It verifies my location. In addition, at that particular time frame, I was signing in from Fed. Express the Viagra cartons. The carbon copies are in xyz's in-box." So, it was a bogus claim against me. Do I forgive the woman who did this to me? Yep. I forgive her. But I do not forgive what she said to management and all the other people (gossip). That is going to take a while. I just have prayers to say for her, and leave it at that. She ruined my character and reputation. Why? Who knows why anyone does anything anymore these days.

Andrew

[Lady Jewel]

Like I once said to someone who was being particularly hard on me (I felt), We humans are imperfect. We are flawed. We make mistakes. Its how we handle those mistakes in the future that is more telling.
I also believe that "mistakes" are really learning opportunities. Learn from them, hopefully dont make them again, and move on.

Jewel (Who believes it is wayyy easier to forgive others than herself)



Sometimes this is also difficult for me. I realize I am fallible, I make mistakes and sometimes make choices that I live to regret. Usually with the latter it is a choice from the heart instead of from my head. I'm probably having a little trouble forgiving myself for some of those choices at this time.


I agree with this too femmy. I need to give it up real bad, but it just isn't happening. Not right now it isn't. But I keep praying for the release and the ability to forgive. I hope it is soon

[hpychick]

Femmy1,

Oh how very much I love you and even the fact that we share a common thread. I appreciate that the Universe brought us together, otherwise, it's likely that I wouldn't have met you - nor had my life so beautifully colored by you and your outlook on this existence.

I am still angry too. I can't imagine not being angry about those 3-1/2 years. I'm angry because of what I allowed, because I allowed it to continue, because I was blind and let the lies become my truths.

But more importantly, I can't imagine what my healing or my life would be like without your gentle spirit and the sweet love that you share with so many.

I am working on that healing just as you are. Process, as you know, isn't always easy - but it is alive and working. The day will come, and we will rejoice and be ecstatic!!! Party with FOOD!!!

You are in my heart and in my thoughts sweet femmy1!




There are several people/situations that I am having trouble finding forviness for. I wish it was easier but I am stuck... I am working on it, that's all I can say.

Seems like the more you need to give it, the harder it is sometimes to give.

f1~

[sylvie]

for me:

forgiveness is extremely hard in some circumstances.
only recently, i've been able to find some forgiveness for people in my past, the hardest to find forgiveness for was my mother, but it's a work in progress, and it's baby steps..

i think like Jewel mentioned in a previous post, i find forgiveness for others much easier than i find forgiveness for myself. that's the journey i'm on, right now... distancing them, helps me with forgiving - i can forgive but i cant forget..it takes a lot to get myself in a place where i can forgive.. i do the forgiving of others for peace in my own heart & mind, helps pave my way to move forward some more... slow journey, but one well worthwhile..♥

i will say tho, although it's hard in some situations to forgive, i tend to forgive very easily in day to day situations, i get walked over very easily.. i'm not much a stand up for myself kinda girl (tho i wish i was) my esteem is low, i know this.. and it's something else i shall work on more. sometimes, i think my lack of esteem allows me to forgive easily for the sake of keeping friendships, or keeping the peace..

now i think i'm all over the place with explaining myself that i don't even make sense anymore, lol!
*shutting up now*
absolutely loved that bit on what forgiveness is, Blade, ty for posting that!

[hpychick]

How can it be that we find it most difficult to forgive ourselves? Is it because we know what goes on in our minds after we thought we forgave someone or a situation, or yes, even ourselves?

I speak solely for myself. I am still hurting by my own doings. I am more angry with myself for allowing someone else to abuse me in their way. Yes, oh yes, I am angry with them! But I believe I am more angry at myself for not holding to my internal belief system.

I'm fine for a while and then a situation arises or a phone call comes in or a letter in the mail - and all of it comes bubbling back to the surface. Sometimes slowly - at 211 (right before the boiling point) - and sometimes ferociously, like an irate volcano.

There are nights I cry myself to sleep because I can't believe I'm still holding on. I cry because I am not free. I cry because I know, deep inside, there's a reason that I don't forgive.

There is the constant shadow following me, that walks in line with mine. One day I will turn around and it will be gone.

[Andrew, Jr.]

When it comes to my abusive childhood...I have problems with forgiving my bio-father. Anger seems to the main emotion I associate with him. There are times when I pity him, and there are times when I can forgive the abuses, and still love my father. It is just very mixed emotions when it comes to him. Obviously he is not my most favorite person in the universe. I just pray to God to help me with him. The years of abuse I endured. I really don't know how I would have turned out if I never was abused.

[Jess]

I tend to put my areas of forgiveness in two different areas. Minor and major. The lesser transgressions are easier for me to forgive others or myself for. It sometimes takes a little time and deep breathing techniques, but usually I am able to move on.. make amends to self and others where I can and resume life as usual.

The major ones may take longer and some I admittedly have still not "let go " of yet. Usually these involve breech of trust. Trust is my most difficult thing to deal with. When it has been broken or damaged it is incredibly hard for me to move beyond that into forgiveness. Even when I am able to finally say "ok, I forgive", like Lady Snow said, I still don't forget and still have issue trusting again.

I know that holding on to resentments and ill feelings only serves to make me ill in both spirit and body. I am still working on it.

[SuperFemme]

Without forgiveness we find ourselves inextricably linked to a negative energy. I love love love what the OP said about what forgiveness is and isn't.

Because to me, forgiveness is the key that opens the doorway to healing.

[Lady Jewel]

!00% right Adele.:rrose:



.

Because to me, forgiveness is the key that opens the doorway to healing.

[Blade]

How can it be that we find it most difficult to forgive ourselves? Is it because we know what goes on in our minds after we thought we forgave someone or a situation, or yes, even ourselves?

I'm fine for a while and then a situation arises or a phone call comes in or a letter in the mail - and all of it comes bubbling back to the surface. Sometimes slowly - at 211 (right before the boiling point) - and sometimes ferociously, like an irate volcano.

There are nights I cry myself to sleep because I can't believe I'm still holding on. I cry because I am not free. I cry because I know, deep inside, there's a reason that I don't forgive.

There is the constant shadow following me, that walks in line with mine. One day I will turn around and it will be gone.
I'm walking that line with you here on the last 2 paragraphs hpychick. Great post!

I tend to put my areas of forgiveness in two different areas. Minor and major. The lesser transgressions are easier for me to forgive others or myself for. It sometimes takes a little time and deep breathing techniques, but usually I am able to move on.. make amends to self and others where I can and resume life as usual.Me too Jess, most things that happen are easy for me to forgive. I believe in "this too shall pass" especially on the small stuff

The major ones may take longer and some I admittedly have still not "let go " of yet. Usually these involve breech of trust. Trust is my most difficult thing to deal with. When it has been broken or damaged it is incredibly hard for me to move beyond that into forgiveness. Even when I am able to finally say "ok, I forgive", like Lady Snow said, I still don't forget and still have issue trusting again.
I feel this too Jess, I'm all about some trust and have issues with folks who breach that trust. Forgiveness of this type takes me a while
I know that holding on to resentments and ill feelings only serves to make me ill in both spirit and body. I am still working on it.I'm working hard in this area, I know what anger and resentment does to me personally in spirit and body. Working on it and making progress feels so good and then there is the day that like hpychick said just something happens out of the blue that kicks you back a few rungs and you almost feel like you are starting all over

[Andrew, Jr.]

Let me explain myself a bit more. It may make better sense.

I believe in forgiveness. That is a gift that I give to myself. I am not so much bitter as I am angry (do I have the definitions of the words wrong?). I do have a very strong desire to heal my heart and soul. Forgiveness is not a stumbling block for me. Forgiveness is a means of letting go. It isn't a one time deal. It is a process that I have done with therapy and on my own. And the one thing everyone seems to forget is that it takes time and patience to deal with the past. But the now and future is brighter and wonderful. Life is good!

[femmy1]

You are toooooo kind to say this.... and I feel quite the same !! It is strange how life brings us together !! Thank you for sharing this experience with me and validating me in that way. One day there will be others who will join our little club of healing and forgiveness !!

One day I was riding and saw a church sign that said... hatred corrodes the vessle in which it is contained.

It blew me away and it stays with me untill this very day. I try to hold the lesson and let go of the pain. Sometimes it is just hard to accept and that is what holds me back. I know , like you said, one day it'll be gone :) that gives me hope and hope is everything !! Thank you soo much !!

f1~


Femmy1,

Oh how very much I love you and even the fact that we share a common thread. I appreciate that the Universe brought us together, otherwise, it's likely that I wouldn't have met you - nor had my life so beautifully colored by you and your outlook on this existence.

I am still angry too. I can't imagine not being angry about those 3-1/2 years. I'm angry because of what I allowed, because I allowed it to continue, because I was blind and let the lies become my truths.

But more importantly, I can't imagine what my healing or my life would be like without your gentle spirit and the sweet love that you share with so many.

I am working on that healing just as you are. Process, as you know, isn't always easy - but it is alive and working. The day will come, and we will rejoice and be ecstatic!!! Party with FOOD!!!

You are in my heart and in my thoughts sweet femmy1!

[LeftWriteFemme]

FORGIVENESS

Forgiveness is not something to force on people
like unwanted coffee.
It is only appropriate to forgive people who ask
for forgiveness
And show with their behavior that they want it.

It is never appropriate to shove forgiveness on people
who haven't asked
And show no signs of wanting it
or demonstrate just the opposite.

It's been said, forgiving was to help you feel better.
It doesn't.
Letting go of resentments makes you feel better.
Making amends to the people you've hurt,
Cleaning up your side of the street makes you feel better.

Keeping an open mind and heart will make you ready
for the possibility of someone coming to make amends.
Forgiveness is a two way street.
Anything you have to throw over someone like a net
is usually a mistake.

[Andrew, Jr.]

LeftWriteFemme,

I agree with what you posted. Forgiveness is a two way street when it comes to minor situations. However, I have to disagree with your concept of forgiveness when it involves molestation/abuse. It is about me, and my future. Finding that place that is safe and sound for just me alone - mainly because of my faith.

Part of the Catholic Doctrines:
a. The Ten Commandments: #4 Honor Your Parents

b. The Seven Deadly Sins - Anger, Pride, Lust (pertaining to abuse as I see it)


c. The Works of Mercy - To comfort the afflicted

d. " - To forgive wrongs

e. " - To bear wrongs patiently

This is where I am coming from. I hope this makes sense.


Peace & Love,
Andrew

[Mitmo01]

The Idea of forgiving doesnt mean forgetting.....its always hard for me to remember that forgiveness is for yourself so that you can have closure and release....

forgiving to me is a 1000 times harder than retribution because You have to do the actions so that you can feel better....

In South Africa and Rwanda, the Truth and Reconcilliation committees that were setup were for thier victims of violence, so that they could have the war criminals admit in open court thier crimes against humanity.....The World should take a lesson from that area of the world and maybe here in the USA if we did that with violent criminals maybe society would be better off?

[Liquefaction]

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn was that forgiving yourself, others, or asking for forgiveness does not undo any of the wrongs that were committed, intentional or not.

Like most have said, I too find it very hard to forgive myself for the things I have done. But if I can not find a way to move past them how can I learn from them? There have been times when I did not learn all there was to learn and wouldn't you know, I would make the same mistake again. That is when it gets really hard for me to forgive myself but I know I have to try!

I have forgiven others for actions that I will never understand, (some things are beyond reason) but as I found out recently I still carry the memories and emotions with me. I wonder if there is still more for me to learn?

Finally, asking for forgiveness is never easy! As the years pass, I have learned that it takes a much stronger person to look someone in the eye and say "I was wrong." and ask for forgiveness than to pretend I did nothing wrong or trying to find the closest rock to hide under. Humility is a hard lesson to learn!

I do believe some things are unforgivable and hope I never have to experience them myself in order to know if this belief is valid!

[Andrew, Jr.]

I think we all pretty much agree then that we can forgive others, but we never forget what was done to us. It is self-love to do that. Getting to that point is not easy. Not by a long shot.

For those who suffered child abuse/molestation, neglect, etc. it is a bit different than someone belittling you because you don't fit in the click. It takes time and patience to forgive the abuser & yourself in that situation.

Just my 2 cents worth for now.

Andrew

[AtLast]

Forgiveness is something that took me years to realize the spirit & internal value of. It is for my own benefit and growth. Pettiness or not recognizing how self-destructive anger can be can cost far more than I am willing to pay in this life.

I can be stubborn, yet, when I forgive and engage in repairative dialogue, I feel much more centered. Sometimes, it takes me awhile to get here, but I know it is the best path to take. Now, sometimes, the person(s) that I need to forgive and talk with, may not want to be engaged in this. But, I can't control this. I can only hold some faith in time as a healer.

:wateringgarden: Can't have a garden without nurturing and tending to it! So goes mutual forgiveness and relationship building...

[Andrew, Jr.]

AtLastHome,

You hit the nail on the head. I too have tried to make ammends with people who I think I hurt in the past. Some have been willing to talk it thru, and others are not so kind. In turn we have no relationship. It's sad because I view life as being so short. And when I do engage in forgiveness, it is self-centering. It is rewarding and really is golden.

When my sister was dying, I told her before she died, the last conversation I ever had with her, how much I loved her. And during her funeral all I could think about is how many times I missed telling her that, or bringing her flowers from my garden. All the missed opportunities I had. She loved me unconditionally even with all of my quirks. :twitch:

Forgiveness is all about love. Love of self, and love of another human being.

[violaine]

forgiveness accepts another kind of passion too, when it can sometimes go way out in the water [exhaustion, trying to be understood, meltdowns, illness, frustrations galore]- imperfections of human nature, as much as the obvious blunders-

my thoughts -

:flying:

[Blade]

FORGIVENESS

Forgiveness is not something to force on people
like unwanted coffee.
It is only appropriate to forgive people who ask
for forgiveness
And show with their behavior that they want it.

It is never appropriate to shove forgiveness on people
who haven't asked
And show no signs of wanting it
or demonstrate just the opposite.

It's been said, forgiving was to help you feel better.
It doesn't.
Letting go of resentments makes you feel better.
Making amends to the people you've hurt,
Cleaning up your side of the street makes you feel better.

Keeping an open mind and heart will make you ready
for the possibility of someone coming to make amends.
Forgiveness is a two way street.
Anything you have to throw over someone like a net
is usually a mistake.
Interesting thoughts on forgiveness here. Some I haven't thought about. Makes sense that you'd not entertain the idea of forgiving someone unless they asked for it. But rather let go of the resentments and sweep ya own porch is about all you really can do sometimes. Especially since much of the time someone doesn't even acknowledge that anything has been done to be forgiven for.

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn was that forgiving yourself, others, or asking for forgiveness does not undo any of the wrongs that were committed, intentional or not.

I have forgiven others for actions that I will never understand, (some things are beyond reason) but as I found out recently I still carry the memories and emotions with me. I wonder if there is still more for me to learn?

Finally, asking for forgiveness is never easy! As the years pass, I have learned that it takes a much stronger person to look someone in the eye and say "I was wrong." and ask for forgiveness than to pretend I did nothing wrong or trying to find the closest rock to hide under. Humility is a hard lesson to learn!


I find it hard to forgive for things or actions I don't understand. Understanding has a lot to do with communication and many don't know how to communicate. They hear but they don't listen.

Humility and being humbled, IS a hard lesson to learn. I think sometimes we may hurt someone and not even realize it, or not realize it at the time,therefore don't ask for forgiveness. Then perhaps we have relinquished our possibility to have any type of relationship with the person involved.

[Apocalipstic]

Forgiveness is a tough issue form me.

I am not even sure what it is.

I get someone doing something bad, apologizing and being forgiven. That is easy, no matter how bad things were.

What I am trying to learn to do is forgive when no regret, apology or even acknowledgment of wrong exists. When I can't even remember all that happened. When thinking about it at all nauseates me.

Thank you for the tread and the discussion. I will be back :).

[Diva]

What Forgiveness is not
Forgiveness is not condoning unkindness
Forgiveness is not forgetting that what happened was painful
Forgiveness is not excusing poor behavior
Forgiveness is not denying or minimizing your hurt
Forgiveness does not mean reconciling with the offender
Forgiveness does not mean you give up having feelings


What is Forgiveness
Forgiveness is for you not the offender
Forgiveness is taking back your power
Forgiveness is taking responsibility for how you feel
Forgiveness is about your healing not about the person that hurt you
Forgiveness isa trainable skill just like learning to throw a ball
Forgiveness is a choice
Forgiveness is becoming the hero instead of the victim


Let's talk about forgiveness, as we all have to deal with it in some form or another at various times of our lives


[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]I just wanted to post a section of the OP......it's so powerful.....and timely.

[Apocalipstic]

I am interested in forgiveness being a trainable skill. I would love to train myself to forgive.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who has ever asked me for forgiveness has gotten it...in general I would say I am a very forgiving person. And I am not talking about smallslights... I am trying to learn to forgive someone who gaslighted me all my life and is no longer around.

People say so many things about how I have to just let it go, and I have no idea how.

Yes, I am in therapy.

[christie]

I am interested in forgiveness being a trainable skill. I would love to train myself to forgive.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who has ever asked me for forgiveness has gotten it...in general I would say I am a very forgiving person. And I am not talking about smallslights... I am trying to learn to forgive someone who gaslighted me all my life and is no longer around.

People say so many things about how I have to just let it go, and I have no idea how.

Yes, I am in therapy.

This is a tough one.

For me, the crux is forgiving when it hasn't been asked for - when the offender may not have a bloody clue as to the impact of the words, the actions, the inactions or nonwords.

I think that when we don't freely forgive these "trespasses" that we wind up just bottling that hurt up inside and I do think, as others have wisely stated here, that WE are the ones suffering for it. We stuff that hurt, anger and betrayal down and the negativity usually manifests in our health or in our interactions with the world.

Sometimes, when I can't just seem to "get over it", I put it on paper. I write a letter as if I were going to send it to that person. Once its on paper (or in Word) I get rid of it. I've been known to burn the actual paper (not to be confused with setting an ex's stuff on fire at the edge of her yard. Enough bourbon and it SOUNDED like a good idea - but that is another thread about the follies of youth). If I typed it out on the PC, I delete it.

Its symbolic for me in that I am making that decision to be done with it - either in the pressing of the delete key or by striking that match.

I've also been known to ask for a cathartic "scene". Its been quite a while since I've needed that level of purging of the negative energy, but who knows, maybe its something I need.

I'm sure others have their own ways in letting go. I'd be interested to hear them.

((((((((((((((((jen)))))))))))))) I've missed you posting!

Christie

[Apocalipstic]

Actually my therapist mentioned having some sort of ceremonial burning of something. Maybe a letter is the way to go?

I sent him (My father) a letter 12 years ago stating how I felt and demanding that I be treated with respect....We never spoke again.

Maybe I will start writing how I feel about the whole thing, then burn the letter with tons of sage or something. I had no idea what to burn, thank you so much.

For my sister the cremation was enough, somehow I need more. :) Man am I high maintenance!
Hey that made me laugh...cool!

[Daywalker]

I have a personal belief...that although making amends and forgiveness
are 2 different things...I have 'made amends' with a few this year
and that seems to ease the need to forgive.

Rehashing is not always a good thing...for me.
:slapfight:

:daywalker:

[Nina]

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

[PearlsNLace]

Forgiveness is what I find after working my 4th and 5th step in recovery. Its something I do when I am finding myself really holding on to big hurts.

In the fourth step, for hose of you who are not familiar with the process, I write out my resentments. These are the things I am harboring grudges over. I write it out in a traditional “Big Book” way, with columns. One column for the person I resent, one for why I resent, one column for my part, and another for an affirmation or blessing for the situation.

In the fifth step I share this with another human, in my case, it’s my Sponsor who although not a licensed professional, he certainly knows this process well and is good at getting me to think. Im really blessed to have him in my life.

When it comes to Loves, and relationships, this is a part of what is the “sexual inventory”
By doing this enough, there are patterns of character defects in ME I get to see when I go through this process. I find that when ~ I'm~ really having a hard time letting go of a hurt, its because I personally am playing victim, I'm holding people up to my expectations, and/or I'm feeling quite entitled to an outcome I didn’t get.

Somehow, going through this process allows me to find forgiveness. For both myself and for the person I've written down in the first column.

[julieisafemme]

I am finding that I can't forgive until I have forgiven myself. That is proving to be difficult.

[Apocalipstic]

I have a personal belief...that although making amends and forgiveness
are 2 different things...I have 'made amends' with a few this year
and that seems to ease the need to forgive.

Rehashing is not always a good thing...for me.
:slapfight:

:daywalker:


I wonder if I am gaining anyting by rehashing. The details do not always match up, and I wonder what really happened. I wonder do I have to know what happened exactly to accept it?

Its usually easy for me to forgive, I just get stuck on family stuff.

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

Interesting post. Lot's to think about.

I am finding that I can't forgive until I have forgiven myself. That is proving to be difficult.

I think we are always harder on ourselves than on anyone else.
Sometimes, just becasue someone else thinks we failed them, does not mean we did.
Be easy on yourself Julie! :)

[PearlsNLace]

I have found that I have to come to a place of forgiveness- towards self, and others, way before I come to the space of making amends.

If I dont, then I am too attached to outcomes I want- how I want others to respond and as a control freak that is really an easy trap to make.

I have found that some stuff happens, and Im just not ready to rehash it. I leave it be, really, until I see that there is something in my way of being happy. I work through things on an as needed basis because if I push it on MY timeline it doesnt work, and I end up doing the work all over again anyway.

There is a time to let go. And a time to pick things up again. And sometimes I need a little perspective outside of my little bubble to find out when those times are.

[Liquefaction]

I think we are always harder on ourselves than on anyone else.
Sometimes, just becasue someone else thinks we failed them, does not mean we did.
Be easy on yourself Julie! :)

I needed the read this!

Thank you!!!

[hpychick]

Neen - thank you show much for showing up and demonstrating your perception and utilization of forgiveness or acceptance.

I enjoy reading the diverse views and hope this place (site) remains a venue of inclusion.

Truly looking forward to reading and learning more of you.

Sunny
perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

[Gemme]

I have read a lot of things that appeal to me in here. I want to be able to forgive but I'm not there yet. I learned the victim mentality at my mother's knee and I learned it well. It's taken me years and years to get where I am now, which is less victim and more vigilante, but a step is a step in the right direction.

I've been angry for a very, very long time and I don't see that changing soon. But I do see it changing, which is more than I would have said a couple of years ago. Once again, progress is progress, no matter how slow. Maybe it's like weight loss? Maybe the longer it takes to reach that place of acceptance and forgiveness, the more likely it will be to stick.

:ohm:

[Spirit Dancer]

In my space, after years of practice
Forgiveness is closing the book on that experiece, reminding oneself it's history.

Now there are times, I may still have a trigger effect.

[Greyson]

Thanks for starting this thread Blade. I myself get caught up in the daily hustle bustle of life and forget to ponder the notions of life that really do give me the gift of humanity.

There are times when I need to find forgiveness for my actions. There are times I want to forgive someone or something that I perceive to have hurt or harmed me in some way. I think overall it is easier for me to forgive others. I do not live in their head, their skin. I do not know their every flaw, thought or action. With myself, I know. Even when I try to ignore my shortcomings.

For me at times forgiveness includes redemption. I must do something to try and bring things back into balance. I don't think mistakes, missteps are some sort of sin. I think actions that require redemption and forgiveness are things I do that are not the authentic Greyson.

Is redemption part of anyones path to forgiveness? If so, how do you find redemption? I have posted one definition of the word, "redeemed."

To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of: You botched the last job but can redeem yourself on this one.

As a side note, Did you see Katie Lang singing "Hallelujah" in the opening ceremony for the Vancouver Winter Olympics? The irony of life. Here we have a Dyke, Gender Variant Queer person on the world stage bringing us all together for a moment in time. I think maybe this act of kindness, her sharing her gift of song with the world, perhaps required some forgiveness of wrongs made against her in her lifetime.

[hpychick]

I'm finding in re-reading, don Miguel Ruiz's The Four Agreements, that forgiveness comes easier when applying the principles of those 4 agreements.

I'll keep working on it...everyday, it seems there is something to forgive.

[Jaques]

Reading some of the posts on here, im not sure what to write on forgivness as although i have been abandoned as a baby, hurt emotionally and let down, ive not been through some of the awful experiences others have.
However, this is my feeling - i can honestly say that its never been in my heart to hate anyone, sometimes i have wanted to feel hate but it just isnt there - hurt yes but never hate.
I also feel we in the western world find it much harder to forgive ourselves than to forgive others, unlike our eastern counterparts. We have a different take on life. In the east they cannot imagine anyone not loving themselves, but how often do we hear of self hatred in the west. Its not that in the east people are selfish, but their attitude seems to be that if you cant love or forgive yourself first, then you are not very well equipped to love or forgive others and to me that makes sense. So over the years i have adopted that way of thinking and it has proved very useful in my life.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Forgiveness...it is a strange bird for me. The latest for me is that my oldest sister (bio) has been estranged from our parents for years. She has found inner peace that way. It was her free will to do so. I had to ask her if she was going to ask our parents to the wedding of her youngest daughter. She said no, so I acknowledged it. I am the kids favorite, so I will be there.

At the funeral of our sister JoAnn, our oldest sister, our parents never shed a tear in public. The opposite of everyone of us. It was strange. I mean you could see and hear everyone else crying. The Church was packed.

God made us a family, but yet the mental illness of our father has destroyed it. Prayers can help us for so much, but it is the real decisions of living and life that make us who and what we are. We need each other, no matter what anyone says, we do. Love is what it is all about.

The heartbreak of being disowned is horrible. I can forgive my parents, but it isn't something I forget. My parents have missed out on so much of my life. My parents are embarassed by me. They want nothing to do with me, and haven't for 30+ years. We can be civil with each other, but that is about it. We were forced into being civil with each other because of JoAnn. Now that she is gone, our relationship has gone back to being nothing. No contact whatsoever. It is best that way. It is a means of survival for me.

Forgiveness has different definitions. Some it means saying sorry, and letting it go. For others, it is thinking it, and asking God for help, but it is really just leaving it in God's Hands.

[Blade]

Sometimes we have to forgive or ask to be forgiven for things we or someone hasn't done or said. This is tricky too. How does someone know they need to ask forgiveness if they don't know they've done anything wrong. In this case I think we hold those we are in love with more accountable than we do others. Usually these might be "the small stuff" but to some people the small stuff is BIG. And harbored animosity over events or non events as it may be can build and build and build and never be resolved because person A doesn't have any idea that they hurt person B, and person B just walks away.

[Apocalipstic]

Sometimes we have to forgive or ask to be forgiven for things we or someone hasn't done or said. This is tricky too. How does someone know they need to ask forgiveness if they don't know they've done anything wrong. In this case I think we hold those we are in love with more accountable than we do others. Usually these might be "the small stuff" but to some people the small stuff is BIG. And harbored animosity over events or non events as it may be can build and build and build and never be resolved because person A doesn't have any idea that they hurt person B, and person B just walks away.

I used to just walk away if person B hurt me...now if I really care about them, I tell them and we discuss it.

It have been a really good change for me. :)

[Blade]

I used to just walk away if person B hurt me...now if I really care about them, I tell them and we discuss it.

It have been a really good change for me. :)

Certainly that is the best thing to do. I know a lot of people just shut down and you don't know why. Communication IS the key to success in any type of relationship for sure.

[Apocalipstic]

Certainly that is the best thing to do. I know a lot of people just shut down and you don't know why. Communication IS the key to success in any type of relationship for sure.


I used to be so like that. I would never say a word, but the resentment would build. I would assume the person knew how to act and they didn't.

Until I learned this, I was unable to have a good relationship. It is one of the most imortant things I have ever learned.

Great thread!

[BornBronson]

Forgiveness to me is forgetting all about it..plain and simple.Like it was yesterday,and sometimes it is.That's for all nonsense stuff.

Now if it was me who did something wrong,then I definitely would like to sit down and talk about it.It's not good to go around being so angry at me and I don't even have a clue why I made you so angry.Silence never solves anything and it never works for me..cause if i'm angry you'll know it.I tend to shout when i'm angry...and loudly.I'm talking about when i'm face to face with someone,not online.Online it's hard for me to get angry at anyone.

:fencing:

[Andrew, Jr.]

Forgiveness is hard for me. Sometimes it is like a medical miracle. When my sister was in a coma. I was angry. Pissed as shit at the doctors who gave her chemo, and stem cells, and to not think she was a mother, a sister, a daughter, a sister in law, and so on. The only thing on their minds was organ donation (think eyes, ears, etc.).

Sometimes forgiveness is just a handshake, and just letting it go. Nobody is really a winner or looser. Just equal. It is all about love, and not holding grudges.

[JinxdGirl]

I forgave and forgive..
because if I didn't and don't, you win.
because I refuse to care enough about you to hold on to hate and ill-will.
because you took too many of my years and I'm taking what's left for me.

[AtLast]

What is forgiveness....

For me is is human growth, peace of mind and detoxification in my life. To harbor resentment only blocks my being able to attain balance. I just won't allow those that have trangressed against me any more of my time or emotional energy. Rather give this to others that have character and practice integrity.

[Laerkin]

What a powerful thread. I feel so inspired by many of these words.

I had to chew for awhile...

Forgiveness is healing, acceptance, compassion.

Forgiveness is surrendering to things outside of your control to allow room for growth and movement forward.

Forgiveness is hard and painful sometimes, but the only way to release yourself from a situation and learn from it.

Forgiveness is more about the heart than the mind, like a salve for the soul.

Forgiveness is something I strive to give easily because I hope others will grant me the room to make mistakes and forgive me my wrongs.

[Corkey]

Forgiveness isn't something you give to another, it is something you allow yourself to partake.

[RockOn]

It has been my experience that, in certain situations, it can be a long time coming. Even so, I feel so much better when I can forgive someone, give them a break.

[MrSunshine]

It's just letting shit go. Either you can or you can't.

[BarbaraRyan]

I think it's about choice, empowerment, and moving forward. It's the part in the process where we can stand up, acknowledge what's happened, and how it's affected us. Then, we choose to say "Okay, I can forgive that - now it's time for me to make my life and to no longer let the event or person have any control."

And it's easier said than done.

[Jess]

I think it revolves around remembering that it is not really about ME. It is about the actions of another and how great or small it may have affected me directly is what gives me grief. When I can remember that someone else's actions are not a reflection upon me, it is easier to "forgive" ( as if it is even my place to do so).

It's more of an acknowledging that they have different views/ reasons for what they do/ say/ are than I do. It's ( for me) more of just letting go.

I don't like saying " I forgive" someone as it feels like then I had some control or bearing on their action. What another choses to do/ say/ behave like has very little to do with ME and much more to do with their own stage of their journey. Who am I to forgive anyone but myself? The best I can do to make peace in my heart for any transgressions is to accept that where they are is "where they are". No forgiveness. No judgement. Just acceptance and a move toward safer waters for myself.

[Talon]

Forgiveness is freedom for you...as long as you've taken the lesson from it.

[Ginger]

I don't think forgiveness is always necessary or even beneficial.

Indifference and letting go is where I find peace, when a relationship ends and the dynamic can't be fixed in order for the relationship to morph into something else.

And I also want to say, indifference isn't the same as wishing someone harm, or hating them. It's what happens when letting go reaches a certain ultimate point. It isn't cold or mean, it just is.

On the other hand, if I want to continue in a relationship with a person who has transgressed against me in some egregious way, forgiveness might open the door to trust. It's a way of saying, "I'm not mad at you anymore" but also there is this tacit agreement: "and I trust you not to do that harmful thing again."

If I want to be friends with someone who did something hurtful to me, I can sometimes just avoid the situations in which that might happen again. With family, for example, I avoid certain conversational topics, and don't ask for what I know I won't get, emotionally.

Is that forgiveness? No, I don't think so. It's protecting myself from toxins in order to continue having contact with that person or persons. It's a kind of trade-off, one I've decided is worth the effort.

I guess I just don't like the whole vibe happening around the term "forgiveness." It sounds religious to me, and I'll admit anything with a religious tone turns me off so take that with a grain of salt.

Here's part of what Wiki says:

"Forgiveness is typically defined as the process of concluding resentment, indignation or anger as a result of a perceived offense, difference or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution."

So I guess they're saying forgiveness is the letting go of "resentment, indignation or anger," which I'm all for—(it erodes your health, for one thing, to stay mad), but that doesn't mean, the relationship has to pick up where it left off. It can end, continue, whatever, after forgiveness happens.

Here's what I just realized; forgiveness often implies that the forgiver is somehow morally superior to the person being forgiven. That just bugs me.

[Nat]

I grew up not really knowing what forgiveness was. My mom hasn't been much of a forgiver - she holds grudges for so long only the sands of time can wear them away. Or she'll find an excuse for a person's behavior and just rationalize it away. Which has been my main way of avoiding forgiveness too. Or, I'll blame myself for whatever was done.

I'm stuck on my 4th step in OA because I seriously don't like thinking that I resent anybody. I'd rather excuse people for their behavior and anesthetize myself in various ways. Or take the blame for bad behavior of others.

For a long time, I thought forgiveness was something you gave to another person, like bequeathed to them like a gift. But there's a guided meditation I do sometimes regarding debt, and the person recommends that if you want to get rid of your debt, you need to look at the people you see as owing you, and just imagine them being absorbed in white light and disappearing. A friend laughed when I told her this and said, "I'd rather visualize pushing them down the stairs!" Anyway, it may sound cheesy, but whether or not you visualize a person disappearing into white light, I think it's good to remember we are all human and it's helpful sometimes to just write off the debt instead of carrying it around in the books forever. I don't think forgiveness has to come with trust or even renewed friendship. It *can* but I don't think it has to.

[UofMfan]

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janis-spring/forgiveness-divorce_b_1418173.html)

[1QuirkyKiwi]

The way I was taught about forgiveness… Mauri Ora – Wellbeing. Kia Mauritau – Be peaceful.

I was taught that forgiveness is not always necessary because not every person that hurts us can be forgiven. We are not responsible for another’s motives. A person’s actions say more about them, than it does about us.

I was taught that each of us holds the ability to find peace within ourselves for what that person(s) have done to us. I was taught to own my own feelings and emotions and work through them to the best of my abilities; this does not mean take revenge for my pain, but, if I feel the need to cry from hurting, then I do and let the anger out by punching a pillow. Also, to accept or a least acknowledge that feeling stupid for a day or two because I didn’t see it coming, isn’t a bad thing.

I was taught to let Karma take its course. The Maori have a saying: “So, let the user be responsible; not to me; or you; or other mortal beings, but to one mightier then the user; so by all means, do what you wish.”

[Glenn]

Forgive everything And forget Nothing.

[~ocean]

when u learn to accept forgiveness follows

[Darbonaire]

Forgiveness and the Freedom of Letting go - YouTube

This helped me a lot.....maybe it will help another......I think it is beautiful !

[Julien]

I find it easier to forgive others than it is to forgive myself for things I have done. No one is harder on me than I am on myself.

[princessbelle]

I doubt this will be a majority of the views in this thread. Could be many don't agree with how i personally deal with forgiveness. But, it is what it is and it is how i handle it.

I've heard the phrases and beautiful statements and sentiments regarding forgiveness all over the place, in which to forgive someone is a gift to yourself and all that. That's wonderful if that is how peeps want to view it. Truly i'm not dissing it, i just see things differently sometimes...not always.

If someone has hurt me, F that. I don't have to forgive them, i don't want to forgive them and i don't forgive them. It is my decision and i'm in control of that, not them. Sometimes people don't deserve forgiveness and i'm really good with that. It doesn't make me feel bitter or whatever, again it's my decision and i don't see how this could be hard on me at all.

Forgive and forget? Sometimes, for me, it's both and sometimes it's latter. What i CAN do however is forget them.The feeling in my mind is equal, because it is closure.

IMO you don't have to forgive everyone to be happy with yourself. Standing up for yourself and protecting yourself from mental/physical harm without forgiving someone is sometimes an ok thing to do.

[Venus007]

For me the hardest part about forgiveness is forgiving myself.
I should have seen...
I should have known...
I should have done X differently...
How could I have X, am I completely blind? ....

The reality is that I didn't see, I didn't know and I did the best I could with the information and situation I had before me.

To continually berate myself or feel that sick gut drop when I think about my actions actually is counter productive. By obsessing on what I did wrong and what is wrong with me instead of focusing on moving forward and how I can do the right thing, well, this only reinforces the unfortunate behavior and creates a stronger neural path to the error of my ways.

This is the hard part, to let go and practice acceptance, to just be and breathe with it, to sit with it and say that even though I make mistakes, it doesn't mean I have to make them in the future, and it certainly doesn't mean that I deserve to carry that hateful burden longer than is necessary for me to learn.

I have to practice acceptance for myself, to forgive myself, and to let go and move on. Whether I like it or not sometimes.

[Silverseastar]

For me the hardest part about forgiveness is forgiving myself

So true Venus007. Forgiveness for ourselves first and then it can come for others. If we hold onto being angry at the self we struggle to forgive others. Whatever we can offer ourselves first makes us more capable of offering the same to another- compassion, love, forgiveness, gentleness.

Sometimes this is so much harder than at other times and we even need to be kind to ourselves around the fact that it may just take time.

[Julien]

For me the hardest part about forgiveness is forgiving myself.
I should have seen...
I should have known...
I should have done X differently...
How could I have X, am I completely blind? ....

The reality is that I didn't see, I didn't know and I did the best I could with the information and situation I had before me.

To continually berate myself or feel that sick gut drop when I think about my actions actually is counter productive. By obsessing on what I did wrong and what is wrong with me instead of focusing on moving forward and how I can do the right thing, well, this only reinforces the unfortunate behavior and creates a stronger neural path to the error of my ways.

This is the hard part, to let go and practice acceptance, to just be and breathe with it, to sit with it and say that even though I make mistakes, it doesn't mean I have to make them in the future, and it certainly doesn't mean that I deserve to carry that hateful burden longer than is necessary for me to learn.

I have to practice acceptance for myself, to forgive myself, and to let go and move on. Whether I like it or not sometimes.

What you wrote is wisdom that I can look to for comfort in my own work on self forgiveness and acceptance. Thank you for your thoughtful post. I just wanted to highlight it for it speaks volumes to me at this moment in time. For I too do not deserve to "carry that hateful burden" any longer than I need to. I believe we carry all sorts of burdens that impede our growth and acceptance. It is up to us to, as you wrote, let it go and move on to interact and grow to become the best we can be in our lives.

[deedarino]

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janis-spring/forgiveness-divorce_b_1418173.html)


I love this article...I have always called it forgiveness but sometimes that word just sticks in my throat.

I know acceptance. I can accept that others are just who they are. That they have their own road to travel and how they touch others along their path is their journey, not mine. I can also accept that this person isn't right for my path and move on.

Forgiveness is saved for those who seek it out, who truly work to find it. Who seek true amends.

[Raven.]

when i find the answers in me, then I will think about what sits as a very secondary process. Forgiveness is the wrong language. My relationship with this word sits largely with religious practice and I link the expectation of forgiveness to a patriotic construct. History says women should forgive and move on.. blame sits with them for not "letting go" of what for many can only be described as horrendous atrocities. The prognosis of my life story and my desire for normalcy comes at a cost that many would not understand. Personally,whilst I bare such cost at the expense of another, I will never forgive.

[Daktari]

You cannot be forgiven until you learn to forgive.

[*Anya*]

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janis-spring/forgiveness-divorce_b_1418173.html)

Yes, this.

Acceptance is different than forgiveness.

It is what it is.

I can not change the outcome. I so wish that it were different but do not have the power to change it.

I accept.

[JustJo]

This article, for the most part, expresses how I feel about forgiveness.

Don't Ask Me for Forgiveness! (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janis-spring/forgiveness-divorce_b_1418173.html)

I love this article...I have always called it forgiveness but sometimes that word just sticks in my throat.

I know acceptance. I can accept that others are just who they are. That they have their own road to travel and how they touch others along their path is their journey, not mine. I can also accept that this person isn't right for my path and move on.

Forgiveness is saved for those who seek it out, who truly work to find it. Who seek true amends.

Yes, this.

Acceptance is different than forgiveness.

It is what it is.

I can not change the outcome. I so wish that it were different but do not have the power to change it.

I accept.

Exactly! Thank you for sharing this article UofM. I had never seen it or heard of this approach and it's absolutely how I feel.

I have never been able to tolerate the idea of forgiving people who have done nothing to deserve it, and who continue to behave in ways that hurt others.

I know I'm pretty much a black and white thinker (and I'm okay with that)....but my reaction has always been "oh hell no." I totally get the idea of acceptance and making peace with what happened so that the injured party can move forward....but I do not support the free ride that total forgiveness gives to those who hurt and keep on hurting without remorse and change.

[Sun]

For me forgiveness is a vehicle to my own inner peace and happiness.

I want to share this meditation that I have found helpful:

Practicing Metta: Loving Kindness

If anyone has harmed me, intentionally, or unintentionally by word, thought or deed, may I forgive them.

If I have harmed anyone, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may they forgive me.

If I have harmed myself, intentionally or unintentionally, by word, thought or deed, may I forgive myself.

[Gráinne]

Forgiveness for me is something I do for myself.

It's acknowledging that something shitty happened, that it was wrong, and then getting to a point of letting go of the anger and hurt.

When I was dealing with some things that had to be forgiven, I got alone out in a park somewhere and wrote a huge letter, nothing held back. I stayed out there all day. Then I tore it up and literally let it all go into the trashbin.

That doesn't mean that I forget, or that I allow myself to just be abused and forgive them anyway. I got to a point where I had to let go for my own inner health, but be smart enough and love myself enough not to allow them to do that to me again.

[DamonK]

Funny this is showing up today.

For me, forgiveness is a fantastic thing and a bitter thing.

I recently had to find a way to forgive a family member. Like the article UofM posted, the offender offered apologies, started making amends. This one amend allowed me to mostly forgive. Can I entirely? Right now, no. The wounds inflicted were too deep. Did it allow me to begin to move on and heal? Yes. Was trust broken? Somewhat. Not entirely.
Forgiveness... I find it to be necessary as part of life. It's not for the other person. That person has to work for it. I can choose to rise above the issue that caused the rift and drown, or find a way to forgive and rebuild the rift.

That is for serious situations.

Now, say my best friend and I have a squabble. Either she or I may ask for forgiveness of the other. It just shows, hey, we got this, we are just fine.

[Nat]

Yesterday I happened upon a podcast with a different interpretation of forgiveness than I'd heard before. It was on one of "Ariel's DCW Lectures" called "Dynamic Healing."

"I was raised Catholic, and I know that because of Adam and Eve, I am guilty. That's the way I was taught, and that's the way it's gonna be and the only way to get forgiveness is by groveling. And the only way to forgive another is by 2 ways - you can either - from a fundamentalist perspective - say, 'Well, you're bad, but I'm saved now, so I will forgive you,' and put yourself up there and them down here. Or you can say, 'Oh well, we're all rotten, miserable sinners, so it doesn't matter.' And so you're all down here.

But what real true forgiveness is, once you start following your heart and following that peaceful place every day - real true forgiveness is none of that. Real true forgiveness is being able to see past all that other stuff, to see right into the heart of who that other person really is - they aren't their past mistakes, they aren't their temper tantrum, they aren't their disease, the aren't their resume, they are not their body - they aren't any of those things. What they are is a child of the universe, a child of love.

And what you're here to do - the only purpose that you're here is to teach love to them. Not talk love to them. Not beat them over the head with your philosophy. Not lecture at them. But to love them. And it's a silent thing - they don't even have to know you're doing it... In fact, the work is much more potent to do this work internally and keep your mouth shut.
...
Being loving doesn't mean you're enabling people's behavior or that you let people treat you however they want to treat you - that's not being loving. If somebody is treating you in a way that is unloving, 'A Course in Miracles' would say they are calling out for love. They aren't being bad - they are being frightened. It will manifest in all kinds of hideous ways. Condemnation of them is not the answer, but it's also not the answer to enable that behavior. So, oftentimes, 'No,' is the loving response.
...
Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you have to have lunch with them. Just because you forgive an abusive parent doesn't mean you have to engage in a conversation with them necessarily."

Anyway, I thought I'd post it because I found it worth considering enough to write down. There are elements I like in what he said. I don't know that I accept all of it, but I do like the idea of looking past a person's mistakes and bad behavior and seeing them - if nothing else - as a person. Loving is another matter, which seems pretty broadly defined up there, though I like that he said that 'oftentimes 'no' is the loving response.' And I like that he said the work is often best done in silence. I guess every once in a while, a person may benefit from knowing you forgive them but I don't think that's the point of forgiveness.

[Miss Scarlett]

To me forgiveness brings inner peace and balance. It's not always easy and not always immediate but for me it is necessary and brings about personal growth. No matter what has happened I ask myself "What can I learn from this?" The answers can be surprising and/or upsetting but I prefer to find and embrace the positive in all things.

[Ms. Meander]

I have recently experienced forgiveness in a new way. Because I am a being of love and light who is in a process of empowerment and release, all sorts of things are being swept out of my dark corners.

My mother is still married to the man who abused me my entire childhood. She has never acknowledged the abuse, let alone apologized for any part of it. After more than a decade of not seeing her or speaking to her I decided to be open when she showed up in my life again last summer. Why? Because I love her. Because I know she loves me. Because I love myself well enough now that I can give us both the gift of compassion without it taking anything away from me to do it. I asked myself how can this be okay with me? And I realized that I have forgiven her everything that has gone before and I forgive her for still being a sad, lost soul. My expectations are minimal. I've changed myself in relation to this relationship. I am the strong, loving, wise one here.

Most certainly there is some sort of reckoning on the horizon, whether we come to it together or I go it alone. But I feel we have a chance at a meaningful exchange because I already forgive her and I come in the spirit of love and compassion. I could be disappointed or saddened, but I can not be injured by this situation anymore. It is the greatest gift I have ever given myself.

[Ms. Meander]

Forgiveness = Self Love

[homoe]

I CAN forgive but I will NEVER forget! I mean we study history so we don't make the same mistakes twice right?

[Tuff Stuff]

Forgiveness??..who am I to forgive?..should I forgive myself? should I forgive others?..hey,the past is the past..and to me,that can mean one day ago.

Not forgetting,now that can be toxic for me...and so,I move on and not lay my bad past experiences onto the new people who come into my life.

At my age,I can't worry about nothing else but what is here at the moment.What I mean is that I live right now,right here,in the present..of course i'm probably more wiser,less trusting,more likely these days to say no to someone.

Still,I am no angel,I make bad mistakes,I have hurt others and their feelings...people have hurt mine...people do that to one another.

Don't let it eat you up inside...we're only human,acting human.

[Shystonefem]

Although I know it is not good for my soul, it can take me decades to forgive (obviously for the big things, not the small things).

My mom died 27 years ago and I just forgave her about 5 years ago. That doesn't mean I didn't love her, I think it is because I love her so much and she was suppose to love me, that it took that long.

I don't ever sweart the small stuff ..... the big stuff hurts. I have something going on with someone right now that very well could matter 5 years from now. I know this person will be one that I won't forgive and will intentionally avoid for the rest if my life. I don't have to wish them bad, I'll just be indifferent towards the situation. When it is all over, I'll never see them ever again and they will never know when I have forgiven because I won't talk to them ever again.

Ubless it is a big thing, I forgive quickly. If it is a big thing, they can plan on never hearing from me again.

[~ocean]

accepting the differences in ppl have taught me to forgive ~ there are some things ppl have to forgive themselves for ~

[TruTexan]

_nPJ3bEFhoM
speaks volumes to me.

[Ginger]

I think we forgive people because hating them doesn't serve us in any way.

[MsTinkerbelly]

I think we forgive people because hating them doesn't serve us in any way.

This!

You hit it exactly.:hangloose:

[TruTexan]

From a place of deep hurt, wounds, and sorrow. It's been a long, long many years that there are people I still need to forgive for hurting me and it's so damn hard. I've accepted things that happened, but I've never been told the words "I'm sorry" or asked to forgive them, for the pain they caused me that wounded me so deeply. I'm learning through music, to let go of the pain, because it's long over due.

Forgiveness is letting go of that pain; and I don't think I was ever really ready to let go until now. It's time, it's been decades, and it's way over due. Time to let go and be still and know that forgiving doesn't mean they asked for it. It needs to just come from me, from a deep place of letting go, and it doesn't I won't remember.

[*Anya*]

To me, forgiveness is choosing to move on from whatever hurt or pain that you felt at another point in your life; that is still keeping you tied to the past.

In the words of Ram Dass: Be here now.

It is kind of impossible to be in the present when part of you is still dragging the past with you.

It has been the hardest of all of the pain I have borne, to forgive my parents. Sometimes I think that I just don't want to or can't forgive them. I know that it would be better for me as a person, if I did.

Part of me thinks I still have time to deal with it but I am not getting any younger and neither are they.

[imperfect_cupcake]

For me to forgive a loan is to no longer expect payment from the person who owes money.

So I apply that to emotional "debt"
To forgive someone means I no longer want them to do things to make up for what they have done. I forgive their debt to me for damages.

There are things in life that I'm just not going to "get over" and accepting that has helped me accept I won't able to change the damage or scar. It helps me lower my expectations of myself and accept and work around.

In the body, when things get damaged, the body comes up with alternative routes and solutions to work. And that's the way I see it in terms of emotional scaring. I'm never going to get over my brother dying. That's not a realistic expectation. I have learned to accept it and live with it, which give me more peace.
I'm never going to get over the damage my other brother caused. I've forgiven him in terms of his debt to me. I want nothing from him. But I e also come to terms that I won't forgive the past damage. I've tried and it's only hurt me more, to force that on myself. It's ok to not forgive. I can heal without it. I have healed the best of my psyches ability without it and it's pretty good. I expect some scar tissue.

I forgive my exwife the debt she owes me for her actions. But I can't forgive her cruelty, emotionally. That's ok. I have tried over the past four years, and it's just going to be one of those things I'm just not going to be able to get past with her. I care about her, I hope she's happy and I'm good with occasional three times a year updates and hello. But I won't ever be able to trust her, and because I can't trust her it means I don't forgive her in the sense of "wiping the slate clean."

I personally don't think that's possible and I also think that's a stupid idea, considering her track record.

I don't need to forgive her to that extent. Nor do I need to forgive anyone to that extent.

I may be presently crabby with school stress, but my life is the most peaceful it's ever been in my entire experience. So I don't think forgiveness beyond the forgiveness of debit is necessary to be content in life.

[Kätzchen]

I too struggle with the notion of forgiveness. Moreover, I don't think I even subscribe to the notion of forgiveness. And here is why I don't (although I used to):


I think anyone, myself included, can make a conscious decision to accept or not accept situations that do not have our best interests at heart. Being able to say to myself (rhetorical proposition, example), "Am I going to accept x-y-z sets of behavior ? (Absolutely not, if it does not serve my best interest),"

Setting myself free from the social construction of the notion that forgiveness is the answer has liberated from the burden of taking on sh*t that belongs wholly on the perpetrator of such stuff . I can only own my self, my choices, my behaviors, my decisions, which my goal is to act with responsibility that privileges my best interests, with latitude for the best interest of another.

I have more thoughts about this kind of issue because it's not an easy subject to untangle.

[imperfect_cupcake]

I too struggle with the notion of forgiveness. Moreover, I don't think I even subscribe to the notion of forgiveness. And here is why I don't (although I used to):


I think anyone, myself included, can make a conscious decision to accept or not accept situations that do not have our best interests at heart. Being able to say to myself (rhetorical proposition, example), "Am I going to accept x-y-z sets of behavior ? (Absolutely not, if it does not serve my best interest),"

Setting myself free from the social construction of the notion that forgiveness is the answer has liberated from the burden of taking on sh*t that belongs wholly on the perpetrator of such stuff . I can only own my self, my choices, my behaviors, my decisions, which my goal is to act with responsibility that privileges my best interests, with latitude for the best interest of another.

I have more thoughts about this kind of issue because it's not an easy subject to untangle.

Completely understand. And ultimately agree. It was a revelation to have a counselour tell me "you don't need to forgive someone to heal." I let go of so much stuff when I learned that. And I think I did actually really start getting better knowing I didn't have to forgive. That my anger was something that wouldn't harm me and was valid and wasn't poison.

I learned that all my emotions were valid and healthy and there for a reason. That forgiveness is what is needed in order to have continuing relationships with people. I agree with that. But acceptance is all I need to have if I no longer want one.

[Kätzchen]

Completely understand. And ultimately agree. It was a revelation to have a counselour tell me "you don't need to forgive someone to heal." I let go of so much stuff when I learned that. And I think I did actually really start getting better knowing I didn't have to forgive. That my anger was something that wouldn't harm me and was valid and wasn't poison.

I learned that all my emotions were valid and healthy and there for a reason. That forgiveness is what is needed in order to have continuing relationships with people. I agree with that. But acceptance is all I need to have if I no longer want one.
That was the turning point for me too, learning that my emotions, feelings, and thoughts, were valid responses, that I didn't need to forgive someone in order to heal. I think that is wonderful that a counselor advised you in that way.

I think what led me to the same realization, the slow process of coming to a similar understanding as you, was through the many people who have been in my life over the years; the way they have nurtured me throughout my own process of coming to a place where I can release and let go (which, in my mind, is not the same as the concept of forgiveness) and know that I can make choices that will help me in my own life.

I think it's an important discovery to know that we don't need to forgive in order to heal. Thank you for articulating that insight.

[girl_dee]

I just read about a way to reframe forgiveness so that its easier to move on.

"Forgiveness is accepting that the outcome could be anything different"


I need to work on this.

/Rwcp_oEIwnU

[Deborah*]

I think it's about choice, empowerment, and moving forward. It's the part in the process where we can stand up, acknowledge what's happened, and how it's affected us. Then, we choose to say "Okay, I can forgive that - now it's time for me to make my life and to no longer let the event or person have any control."

And it's easier said than done.
Amen to that. I agree with what you said. Now, if I can only follow this about my stepmother.

Deborah

[Deborah*]

I CAN forgive but I will NEVER forget! I mean we study history so we don't make the same mistakes twice right?
Yes, especially when you're jewish like me. The war.

Deborah

[girl_dee]

I just read about a way to reframe forgiveness so that its easier to move on.

"Forgiveness is accepting that the outcome could be anything different"


I need to work on this.

/Rwcp_oEIwnU

Still working on this. Need to try harder