What is Forgiveness?

[Blade]

There are many events that happen in our lives from childhood to current events that require us to forgive. Maybe abuse, or something a friend said or did or your parents or a spouse or partner. Sometimes we even have to find a way to forgive strangers.

How do you deal with forgiveness? Are there steps you take or processes you go through in your mind or physically. What do you do to forgive and really mean it?

I read a list that opened my eyes just a bit ago, and got me to thinking.


What Forgiveness is not
Forgiveness is not condoning unkindness
Forgiveness is not forgetting that what happened was painful
Forgiveness is not excusing poor behavior
Forgiveness is not denying or minimizing your hurt
Forgiveness does not mean reconciling with the offender
Forgiveness does not mean you give up having feelings


What is Forgiveness
Forgiveness is for you not the offender
Forgiveness is taking back your power
Forgiveness is taking responsibility for how you feel
Forgiveness is about your healing not about the person that hurt you
Forgiveness isa trainable skill just like learning to throw a ball
Forgiveness is a choice
Forgiveness is becoming the hero instead of the victim


Let's talk about forgiveness, as we all have to deal with it in some form or another at various times of our lives

[Lady Jewel]

In order to save MYSELF, I HAD to forgive the man who raped and beat me within an inch of my life. It was a cancer that grew and ate at me, until it almost destroyed me. So I forgave him in my heart. But forget? NEVER. EVER. I feel compassion towards him that in his fucked up mind he felt by raping me, it would prove his love for me. And that by beating me up, he would scare me into submisson. I forgive that. But forget? NEVER. My forgiveness of him was ALL for me. THAT he couldnt beat or rape out of me,

In unity,
Jewel

[The_Lady_Snow]

I can forgive...

I will not forget though...

[Andrew, Jr.]

I will have to come back and post on this.

[Andrew, Jr.]

For me, and me alone, I believe in forgiveness. It is apart of unconditional love. I also believe it is an attitude. You have to make the decision yourself, by yourself, to forgive someone. I trust God to judge other's and their behavior.

For example, my bio-father was abusive. Nothing can change his behavior. I have to accept him, but forgive his behavior and move on. I cannot change the past. It haunts me to this very day. I cannot understand it. It makes no sense to me. It is the same as a parent who discovers their child who took nude pictures of themselves and posted them on the internet for all to see. You love your child, but hate the behavior.

Some people believe in Karma. I do as well. However, Karma isn't just about the bad things in life. It is also about the good things too. What comes around goes around. Both good and bad.

Namaste,
Andrew

[Andrew, Jr.]

BUMP de BUMP BUMP

[christie]

Mostly, I find forgiving myself the most difficult.

[femmy1]

There are several people/situations that I am having trouble finding forviness for. I wish it was easier but I am stuck... I am working on it, that's all I can say.

Seems like the more you need to give it, the harder it is sometimes to give.

f1~

[Blade]

Mostly, I find forgiving myself the most difficult.
Sometimes this is also difficult for me. I realize I am fallible, I make mistakes and sometimes make choices that I live to regret. Usually with the latter it is a choice from the heart instead of from my head. I'm probably having a little trouble forgiving myself for some of those choices at this time.

There are several people/situations that I am having trouble finding forviness for. I wish it was easier but I am stuck... I am working on it, that's all I can say.

Seems like the more you need to give it, the harder it is sometimes to give.

f1~
I agree with this too femmy. I need to give it up real bad, but it just isn't happening. Not right now it isn't. But I keep praying for the release and the ability to forgive. I hope it is soon

[Andrew, Jr.]

Forgiveness is not easy. Not by a long shot. For example, I was falsely accused of raping a woman at work. No lie. She went to management and claimed I put my hands all over her, and I raped her. Well, they took her statement. Next they called me in, and took my statement. It was short and sweet. It read "I was working on the dock. The videotape of me is in security. It verifies my location. In addition, at that particular time frame, I was signing in from Fed. Express the Viagra cartons. The carbon copies are in xyz's in-box." So, it was a bogus claim against me. Do I forgive the woman who did this to me? Yep. I forgive her. But I do not forgive what she said to management and all the other people (gossip). That is going to take a while. I just have prayers to say for her, and leave it at that. She ruined my character and reputation. Why? Who knows why anyone does anything anymore these days.

Andrew

[Lady Jewel]

Like I once said to someone who was being particularly hard on me (I felt), We humans are imperfect. We are flawed. We make mistakes. Its how we handle those mistakes in the future that is more telling.
I also believe that "mistakes" are really learning opportunities. Learn from them, hopefully dont make them again, and move on.

Jewel (Who believes it is wayyy easier to forgive others than herself)



Sometimes this is also difficult for me. I realize I am fallible, I make mistakes and sometimes make choices that I live to regret. Usually with the latter it is a choice from the heart instead of from my head. I'm probably having a little trouble forgiving myself for some of those choices at this time.


I agree with this too femmy. I need to give it up real bad, but it just isn't happening. Not right now it isn't. But I keep praying for the release and the ability to forgive. I hope it is soon

[hpychick]

Femmy1,

Oh how very much I love you and even the fact that we share a common thread. I appreciate that the Universe brought us together, otherwise, it's likely that I wouldn't have met you - nor had my life so beautifully colored by you and your outlook on this existence.

I am still angry too. I can't imagine not being angry about those 3-1/2 years. I'm angry because of what I allowed, because I allowed it to continue, because I was blind and let the lies become my truths.

But more importantly, I can't imagine what my healing or my life would be like without your gentle spirit and the sweet love that you share with so many.

I am working on that healing just as you are. Process, as you know, isn't always easy - but it is alive and working. The day will come, and we will rejoice and be ecstatic!!! Party with FOOD!!!

You are in my heart and in my thoughts sweet femmy1!




There are several people/situations that I am having trouble finding forviness for. I wish it was easier but I am stuck... I am working on it, that's all I can say.

Seems like the more you need to give it, the harder it is sometimes to give.

f1~

[sylvie]

for me:

forgiveness is extremely hard in some circumstances.
only recently, i've been able to find some forgiveness for people in my past, the hardest to find forgiveness for was my mother, but it's a work in progress, and it's baby steps..

i think like Jewel mentioned in a previous post, i find forgiveness for others much easier than i find forgiveness for myself. that's the journey i'm on, right now... distancing them, helps me with forgiving - i can forgive but i cant forget..it takes a lot to get myself in a place where i can forgive.. i do the forgiving of others for peace in my own heart & mind, helps pave my way to move forward some more... slow journey, but one well worthwhile..♥

i will say tho, although it's hard in some situations to forgive, i tend to forgive very easily in day to day situations, i get walked over very easily.. i'm not much a stand up for myself kinda girl (tho i wish i was) my esteem is low, i know this.. and it's something else i shall work on more. sometimes, i think my lack of esteem allows me to forgive easily for the sake of keeping friendships, or keeping the peace..

now i think i'm all over the place with explaining myself that i don't even make sense anymore, lol!
*shutting up now*
absolutely loved that bit on what forgiveness is, Blade, ty for posting that!

[hpychick]

How can it be that we find it most difficult to forgive ourselves? Is it because we know what goes on in our minds after we thought we forgave someone or a situation, or yes, even ourselves?

I speak solely for myself. I am still hurting by my own doings. I am more angry with myself for allowing someone else to abuse me in their way. Yes, oh yes, I am angry with them! But I believe I am more angry at myself for not holding to my internal belief system.

I'm fine for a while and then a situation arises or a phone call comes in or a letter in the mail - and all of it comes bubbling back to the surface. Sometimes slowly - at 211 (right before the boiling point) - and sometimes ferociously, like an irate volcano.

There are nights I cry myself to sleep because I can't believe I'm still holding on. I cry because I am not free. I cry because I know, deep inside, there's a reason that I don't forgive.

There is the constant shadow following me, that walks in line with mine. One day I will turn around and it will be gone.

[Andrew, Jr.]

When it comes to my abusive childhood...I have problems with forgiving my bio-father. Anger seems to the main emotion I associate with him. There are times when I pity him, and there are times when I can forgive the abuses, and still love my father. It is just very mixed emotions when it comes to him. Obviously he is not my most favorite person in the universe. I just pray to God to help me with him. The years of abuse I endured. I really don't know how I would have turned out if I never was abused.

[Jess]

I tend to put my areas of forgiveness in two different areas. Minor and major. The lesser transgressions are easier for me to forgive others or myself for. It sometimes takes a little time and deep breathing techniques, but usually I am able to move on.. make amends to self and others where I can and resume life as usual.

The major ones may take longer and some I admittedly have still not "let go " of yet. Usually these involve breech of trust. Trust is my most difficult thing to deal with. When it has been broken or damaged it is incredibly hard for me to move beyond that into forgiveness. Even when I am able to finally say "ok, I forgive", like Lady Snow said, I still don't forget and still have issue trusting again.

I know that holding on to resentments and ill feelings only serves to make me ill in both spirit and body. I am still working on it.

[SuperFemme]

Without forgiveness we find ourselves inextricably linked to a negative energy. I love love love what the OP said about what forgiveness is and isn't.

Because to me, forgiveness is the key that opens the doorway to healing.

[Lady Jewel]

!00% right Adele.:rrose:



.

Because to me, forgiveness is the key that opens the doorway to healing.

[Blade]

How can it be that we find it most difficult to forgive ourselves? Is it because we know what goes on in our minds after we thought we forgave someone or a situation, or yes, even ourselves?

I'm fine for a while and then a situation arises or a phone call comes in or a letter in the mail - and all of it comes bubbling back to the surface. Sometimes slowly - at 211 (right before the boiling point) - and sometimes ferociously, like an irate volcano.

There are nights I cry myself to sleep because I can't believe I'm still holding on. I cry because I am not free. I cry because I know, deep inside, there's a reason that I don't forgive.

There is the constant shadow following me, that walks in line with mine. One day I will turn around and it will be gone.
I'm walking that line with you here on the last 2 paragraphs hpychick. Great post!

I tend to put my areas of forgiveness in two different areas. Minor and major. The lesser transgressions are easier for me to forgive others or myself for. It sometimes takes a little time and deep breathing techniques, but usually I am able to move on.. make amends to self and others where I can and resume life as usual.Me too Jess, most things that happen are easy for me to forgive. I believe in "this too shall pass" especially on the small stuff

The major ones may take longer and some I admittedly have still not "let go " of yet. Usually these involve breech of trust. Trust is my most difficult thing to deal with. When it has been broken or damaged it is incredibly hard for me to move beyond that into forgiveness. Even when I am able to finally say "ok, I forgive", like Lady Snow said, I still don't forget and still have issue trusting again.
I feel this too Jess, I'm all about some trust and have issues with folks who breach that trust. Forgiveness of this type takes me a while
I know that holding on to resentments and ill feelings only serves to make me ill in both spirit and body. I am still working on it.I'm working hard in this area, I know what anger and resentment does to me personally in spirit and body. Working on it and making progress feels so good and then there is the day that like hpychick said just something happens out of the blue that kicks you back a few rungs and you almost feel like you are starting all over

[Andrew, Jr.]

Let me explain myself a bit more. It may make better sense.

I believe in forgiveness. That is a gift that I give to myself. I am not so much bitter as I am angry (do I have the definitions of the words wrong?). I do have a very strong desire to heal my heart and soul. Forgiveness is not a stumbling block for me. Forgiveness is a means of letting go. It isn't a one time deal. It is a process that I have done with therapy and on my own. And the one thing everyone seems to forget is that it takes time and patience to deal with the past. But the now and future is brighter and wonderful. Life is good!

[femmy1]

You are toooooo kind to say this.... and I feel quite the same !! It is strange how life brings us together !! Thank you for sharing this experience with me and validating me in that way. One day there will be others who will join our little club of healing and forgiveness !!

One day I was riding and saw a church sign that said... hatred corrodes the vessle in which it is contained.

It blew me away and it stays with me untill this very day. I try to hold the lesson and let go of the pain. Sometimes it is just hard to accept and that is what holds me back. I know , like you said, one day it'll be gone :) that gives me hope and hope is everything !! Thank you soo much !!

f1~


Femmy1,

Oh how very much I love you and even the fact that we share a common thread. I appreciate that the Universe brought us together, otherwise, it's likely that I wouldn't have met you - nor had my life so beautifully colored by you and your outlook on this existence.

I am still angry too. I can't imagine not being angry about those 3-1/2 years. I'm angry because of what I allowed, because I allowed it to continue, because I was blind and let the lies become my truths.

But more importantly, I can't imagine what my healing or my life would be like without your gentle spirit and the sweet love that you share with so many.

I am working on that healing just as you are. Process, as you know, isn't always easy - but it is alive and working. The day will come, and we will rejoice and be ecstatic!!! Party with FOOD!!!

You are in my heart and in my thoughts sweet femmy1!

[LeftWriteFemme]

FORGIVENESS

Forgiveness is not something to force on people
like unwanted coffee.
It is only appropriate to forgive people who ask
for forgiveness
And show with their behavior that they want it.

It is never appropriate to shove forgiveness on people
who haven't asked
And show no signs of wanting it
or demonstrate just the opposite.

It's been said, forgiving was to help you feel better.
It doesn't.
Letting go of resentments makes you feel better.
Making amends to the people you've hurt,
Cleaning up your side of the street makes you feel better.

Keeping an open mind and heart will make you ready
for the possibility of someone coming to make amends.
Forgiveness is a two way street.
Anything you have to throw over someone like a net
is usually a mistake.

[Andrew, Jr.]

LeftWriteFemme,

I agree with what you posted. Forgiveness is a two way street when it comes to minor situations. However, I have to disagree with your concept of forgiveness when it involves molestation/abuse. It is about me, and my future. Finding that place that is safe and sound for just me alone - mainly because of my faith.

Part of the Catholic Doctrines:
a. The Ten Commandments: #4 Honor Your Parents

b. The Seven Deadly Sins - Anger, Pride, Lust (pertaining to abuse as I see it)


c. The Works of Mercy - To comfort the afflicted

d. " - To forgive wrongs

e. " - To bear wrongs patiently

This is where I am coming from. I hope this makes sense.


Peace & Love,
Andrew

[Mitmo01]

The Idea of forgiving doesnt mean forgetting.....its always hard for me to remember that forgiveness is for yourself so that you can have closure and release....

forgiving to me is a 1000 times harder than retribution because You have to do the actions so that you can feel better....

In South Africa and Rwanda, the Truth and Reconcilliation committees that were setup were for thier victims of violence, so that they could have the war criminals admit in open court thier crimes against humanity.....The World should take a lesson from that area of the world and maybe here in the USA if we did that with violent criminals maybe society would be better off?

[Liquefaction]

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn was that forgiving yourself, others, or asking for forgiveness does not undo any of the wrongs that were committed, intentional or not.

Like most have said, I too find it very hard to forgive myself for the things I have done. But if I can not find a way to move past them how can I learn from them? There have been times when I did not learn all there was to learn and wouldn't you know, I would make the same mistake again. That is when it gets really hard for me to forgive myself but I know I have to try!

I have forgiven others for actions that I will never understand, (some things are beyond reason) but as I found out recently I still carry the memories and emotions with me. I wonder if there is still more for me to learn?

Finally, asking for forgiveness is never easy! As the years pass, I have learned that it takes a much stronger person to look someone in the eye and say "I was wrong." and ask for forgiveness than to pretend I did nothing wrong or trying to find the closest rock to hide under. Humility is a hard lesson to learn!

I do believe some things are unforgivable and hope I never have to experience them myself in order to know if this belief is valid!

[Andrew, Jr.]

I think we all pretty much agree then that we can forgive others, but we never forget what was done to us. It is self-love to do that. Getting to that point is not easy. Not by a long shot.

For those who suffered child abuse/molestation, neglect, etc. it is a bit different than someone belittling you because you don't fit in the click. It takes time and patience to forgive the abuser & yourself in that situation.

Just my 2 cents worth for now.

Andrew

[AtLast]

Forgiveness is something that took me years to realize the spirit & internal value of. It is for my own benefit and growth. Pettiness or not recognizing how self-destructive anger can be can cost far more than I am willing to pay in this life.

I can be stubborn, yet, when I forgive and engage in repairative dialogue, I feel much more centered. Sometimes, it takes me awhile to get here, but I know it is the best path to take. Now, sometimes, the person(s) that I need to forgive and talk with, may not want to be engaged in this. But, I can't control this. I can only hold some faith in time as a healer.

:wateringgarden: Can't have a garden without nurturing and tending to it! So goes mutual forgiveness and relationship building...

[Andrew, Jr.]

AtLastHome,

You hit the nail on the head. I too have tried to make ammends with people who I think I hurt in the past. Some have been willing to talk it thru, and others are not so kind. In turn we have no relationship. It's sad because I view life as being so short. And when I do engage in forgiveness, it is self-centering. It is rewarding and really is golden.

When my sister was dying, I told her before she died, the last conversation I ever had with her, how much I loved her. And during her funeral all I could think about is how many times I missed telling her that, or bringing her flowers from my garden. All the missed opportunities I had. She loved me unconditionally even with all of my quirks. :twitch:

Forgiveness is all about love. Love of self, and love of another human being.

[violaine]

forgiveness accepts another kind of passion too, when it can sometimes go way out in the water [exhaustion, trying to be understood, meltdowns, illness, frustrations galore]- imperfections of human nature, as much as the obvious blunders-

my thoughts -

:flying:

[Blade]

FORGIVENESS

Forgiveness is not something to force on people
like unwanted coffee.
It is only appropriate to forgive people who ask
for forgiveness
And show with their behavior that they want it.

It is never appropriate to shove forgiveness on people
who haven't asked
And show no signs of wanting it
or demonstrate just the opposite.

It's been said, forgiving was to help you feel better.
It doesn't.
Letting go of resentments makes you feel better.
Making amends to the people you've hurt,
Cleaning up your side of the street makes you feel better.

Keeping an open mind and heart will make you ready
for the possibility of someone coming to make amends.
Forgiveness is a two way street.
Anything you have to throw over someone like a net
is usually a mistake.
Interesting thoughts on forgiveness here. Some I haven't thought about. Makes sense that you'd not entertain the idea of forgiving someone unless they asked for it. But rather let go of the resentments and sweep ya own porch is about all you really can do sometimes. Especially since much of the time someone doesn't even acknowledge that anything has been done to be forgiven for.

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn was that forgiving yourself, others, or asking for forgiveness does not undo any of the wrongs that were committed, intentional or not.

I have forgiven others for actions that I will never understand, (some things are beyond reason) but as I found out recently I still carry the memories and emotions with me. I wonder if there is still more for me to learn?

Finally, asking for forgiveness is never easy! As the years pass, I have learned that it takes a much stronger person to look someone in the eye and say "I was wrong." and ask for forgiveness than to pretend I did nothing wrong or trying to find the closest rock to hide under. Humility is a hard lesson to learn!


I find it hard to forgive for things or actions I don't understand. Understanding has a lot to do with communication and many don't know how to communicate. They hear but they don't listen.

Humility and being humbled, IS a hard lesson to learn. I think sometimes we may hurt someone and not even realize it, or not realize it at the time,therefore don't ask for forgiveness. Then perhaps we have relinquished our possibility to have any type of relationship with the person involved.

[Apocalipstic]

Forgiveness is a tough issue form me.

I am not even sure what it is.

I get someone doing something bad, apologizing and being forgiven. That is easy, no matter how bad things were.

What I am trying to learn to do is forgive when no regret, apology or even acknowledgment of wrong exists. When I can't even remember all that happened. When thinking about it at all nauseates me.

Thank you for the tread and the discussion. I will be back :).

[Diva]

What Forgiveness is not
Forgiveness is not condoning unkindness
Forgiveness is not forgetting that what happened was painful
Forgiveness is not excusing poor behavior
Forgiveness is not denying or minimizing your hurt
Forgiveness does not mean reconciling with the offender
Forgiveness does not mean you give up having feelings


What is Forgiveness
Forgiveness is for you not the offender
Forgiveness is taking back your power
Forgiveness is taking responsibility for how you feel
Forgiveness is about your healing not about the person that hurt you
Forgiveness isa trainable skill just like learning to throw a ball
Forgiveness is a choice
Forgiveness is becoming the hero instead of the victim


Let's talk about forgiveness, as we all have to deal with it in some form or another at various times of our lives


[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]I just wanted to post a section of the OP......it's so powerful.....and timely.

[Apocalipstic]

I am interested in forgiveness being a trainable skill. I would love to train myself to forgive.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who has ever asked me for forgiveness has gotten it...in general I would say I am a very forgiving person. And I am not talking about smallslights... I am trying to learn to forgive someone who gaslighted me all my life and is no longer around.

People say so many things about how I have to just let it go, and I have no idea how.

Yes, I am in therapy.

[christie]

I am interested in forgiveness being a trainable skill. I would love to train myself to forgive.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who has ever asked me for forgiveness has gotten it...in general I would say I am a very forgiving person. And I am not talking about smallslights... I am trying to learn to forgive someone who gaslighted me all my life and is no longer around.

People say so many things about how I have to just let it go, and I have no idea how.

Yes, I am in therapy.

This is a tough one.

For me, the crux is forgiving when it hasn't been asked for - when the offender may not have a bloody clue as to the impact of the words, the actions, the inactions or nonwords.

I think that when we don't freely forgive these "trespasses" that we wind up just bottling that hurt up inside and I do think, as others have wisely stated here, that WE are the ones suffering for it. We stuff that hurt, anger and betrayal down and the negativity usually manifests in our health or in our interactions with the world.

Sometimes, when I can't just seem to "get over it", I put it on paper. I write a letter as if I were going to send it to that person. Once its on paper (or in Word) I get rid of it. I've been known to burn the actual paper (not to be confused with setting an ex's stuff on fire at the edge of her yard. Enough bourbon and it SOUNDED like a good idea - but that is another thread about the follies of youth). If I typed it out on the PC, I delete it.

Its symbolic for me in that I am making that decision to be done with it - either in the pressing of the delete key or by striking that match.

I've also been known to ask for a cathartic "scene". Its been quite a while since I've needed that level of purging of the negative energy, but who knows, maybe its something I need.

I'm sure others have their own ways in letting go. I'd be interested to hear them.

((((((((((((((((jen)))))))))))))) I've missed you posting!

Christie

[Apocalipstic]

Actually my therapist mentioned having some sort of ceremonial burning of something. Maybe a letter is the way to go?

I sent him (My father) a letter 12 years ago stating how I felt and demanding that I be treated with respect....We never spoke again.

Maybe I will start writing how I feel about the whole thing, then burn the letter with tons of sage or something. I had no idea what to burn, thank you so much.

For my sister the cremation was enough, somehow I need more. :) Man am I high maintenance!
Hey that made me laugh...cool!

[Daywalker]

I have a personal belief...that although making amends and forgiveness
are 2 different things...I have 'made amends' with a few this year
and that seems to ease the need to forgive.

Rehashing is not always a good thing...for me.
:slapfight:

:daywalker:

[Nina]

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

[PearlsNLace]

Forgiveness is what I find after working my 4th and 5th step in recovery. Its something I do when I am finding myself really holding on to big hurts.

In the fourth step, for hose of you who are not familiar with the process, I write out my resentments. These are the things I am harboring grudges over. I write it out in a traditional “Big Book” way, with columns. One column for the person I resent, one for why I resent, one column for my part, and another for an affirmation or blessing for the situation.

In the fifth step I share this with another human, in my case, it’s my Sponsor who although not a licensed professional, he certainly knows this process well and is good at getting me to think. Im really blessed to have him in my life.

When it comes to Loves, and relationships, this is a part of what is the “sexual inventory”
By doing this enough, there are patterns of character defects in ME I get to see when I go through this process. I find that when ~ I'm~ really having a hard time letting go of a hurt, its because I personally am playing victim, I'm holding people up to my expectations, and/or I'm feeling quite entitled to an outcome I didn’t get.

Somehow, going through this process allows me to find forgiveness. For both myself and for the person I've written down in the first column.

[julieisafemme]

I am finding that I can't forgive until I have forgiven myself. That is proving to be difficult.

[Apocalipstic]

I have a personal belief...that although making amends and forgiveness
are 2 different things...I have 'made amends' with a few this year
and that seems to ease the need to forgive.

Rehashing is not always a good thing...for me.
:slapfight:

:daywalker:


I wonder if I am gaining anyting by rehashing. The details do not always match up, and I wonder what really happened. I wonder do I have to know what happened exactly to accept it?

Its usually easy for me to forgive, I just get stuck on family stuff.

perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

Interesting post. Lot's to think about.

I am finding that I can't forgive until I have forgiven myself. That is proving to be difficult.

I think we are always harder on ourselves than on anyone else.
Sometimes, just becasue someone else thinks we failed them, does not mean we did.
Be easy on yourself Julie! :)

[PearlsNLace]

I have found that I have to come to a place of forgiveness- towards self, and others, way before I come to the space of making amends.

If I dont, then I am too attached to outcomes I want- how I want others to respond and as a control freak that is really an easy trap to make.

I have found that some stuff happens, and Im just not ready to rehash it. I leave it be, really, until I see that there is something in my way of being happy. I work through things on an as needed basis because if I push it on MY timeline it doesnt work, and I end up doing the work all over again anyway.

There is a time to let go. And a time to pick things up again. And sometimes I need a little perspective outside of my little bubble to find out when those times are.

[Liquefaction]

I think we are always harder on ourselves than on anyone else.
Sometimes, just becasue someone else thinks we failed them, does not mean we did.
Be easy on yourself Julie! :)

I needed the read this!

Thank you!!!

[hpychick]

Neen - thank you show much for showing up and demonstrating your perception and utilization of forgiveness or acceptance.

I enjoy reading the diverse views and hope this place (site) remains a venue of inclusion.

Truly looking forward to reading and learning more of you.

Sunny
perhaps for me it's semantics...I don't have, for myself, a goal of 'forgiveness'...my goal is for 'acceptance'...what happened, what choices (or compulsions) were meted out is what happened...I think that it's my way of letting go of wishing things had not happened...or trying to figure out what (and it's almost always nothing) I could have done to prevent events, or what I might have 'done' to cause them...

I am, often to my detriment, able to really Understand why people do harm to others...how their own injuries drive them to act out in the ways they do, etc...I also know that someone with the same kinds of woundings can choose Not to impose harm on others...(that is simplistic I know)...

my challenge is just accepting the truth of things...not getting stuck in wishing...not getting mired in self-pity...not giving up on struggling to move through the effects of being broken in ways which could keep me paralyzed...I find that when I am able to look at things and not have an immediate reaction which leads to self-destructive impulses, I have achieved a freedom from the past and move in the present and into the future empowered...

as for forgetting....I never forget, and I don't want to...all the experiences of my life are just that--all the pieces that make up the Whole of My Life...I strive to be able to remember by conscious choice and not by having tapes running on a loop...but I want to have the strength and grace to hold all the memories of my life...

that's what I work for and on and somehow forgiving just isn't the right fit for me, or what my internal filing system is all about...

n

[Gemme]

I have read a lot of things that appeal to me in here. I want to be able to forgive but I'm not there yet. I learned the victim mentality at my mother's knee and I learned it well. It's taken me years and years to get where I am now, which is less victim and more vigilante, but a step is a step in the right direction.

I've been angry for a very, very long time and I don't see that changing soon. But I do see it changing, which is more than I would have said a couple of years ago. Once again, progress is progress, no matter how slow. Maybe it's like weight loss? Maybe the longer it takes to reach that place of acceptance and forgiveness, the more likely it will be to stick.

:ohm:

[Spirit Dancer]

In my space, after years of practice
Forgiveness is closing the book on that experiece, reminding oneself it's history.

Now there are times, I may still have a trigger effect.

[Greyson]

Thanks for starting this thread Blade. I myself get caught up in the daily hustle bustle of life and forget to ponder the notions of life that really do give me the gift of humanity.

There are times when I need to find forgiveness for my actions. There are times I want to forgive someone or something that I perceive to have hurt or harmed me in some way. I think overall it is easier for me to forgive others. I do not live in their head, their skin. I do not know their every flaw, thought or action. With myself, I know. Even when I try to ignore my shortcomings.

For me at times forgiveness includes redemption. I must do something to try and bring things back into balance. I don't think mistakes, missteps are some sort of sin. I think actions that require redemption and forgiveness are things I do that are not the authentic Greyson.

Is redemption part of anyones path to forgiveness? If so, how do you find redemption? I have posted one definition of the word, "redeemed."

To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of: You botched the last job but can redeem yourself on this one.

As a side note, Did you see Katie Lang singing "Hallelujah" in the opening ceremony for the Vancouver Winter Olympics? The irony of life. Here we have a Dyke, Gender Variant Queer person on the world stage bringing us all together for a moment in time. I think maybe this act of kindness, her sharing her gift of song with the world, perhaps required some forgiveness of wrongs made against her in her lifetime.

[hpychick]

I'm finding in re-reading, don Miguel Ruiz's The Four Agreements, that forgiveness comes easier when applying the principles of those 4 agreements.

I'll keep working on it...everyday, it seems there is something to forgive.

[Jaques]

Reading some of the posts on here, im not sure what to write on forgivness as although i have been abandoned as a baby, hurt emotionally and let down, ive not been through some of the awful experiences others have.
However, this is my feeling - i can honestly say that its never been in my heart to hate anyone, sometimes i have wanted to feel hate but it just isnt there - hurt yes but never hate.
I also feel we in the western world find it much harder to forgive ourselves than to forgive others, unlike our eastern counterparts. We have a different take on life. In the east they cannot imagine anyone not loving themselves, but how often do we hear of self hatred in the west. Its not that in the east people are selfish, but their attitude seems to be that if you cant love or forgive yourself first, then you are not very well equipped to love or forgive others and to me that makes sense. So over the years i have adopted that way of thinking and it has proved very useful in my life.

[Andrew, Jr.]

Forgiveness...it is a strange bird for me. The latest for me is that my oldest sister (bio) has been estranged from our parents for years. She has found inner peace that way. It was her free will to do so. I had to ask her if she was going to ask our parents to the wedding of her youngest daughter. She said no, so I acknowledged it. I am the kids favorite, so I will be there.

At the funeral of our sister JoAnn, our oldest sister, our parents never shed a tear in public. The opposite of everyone of us. It was strange. I mean you could see and hear everyone else crying. The Church was packed.

God made us a family, but yet the mental illness of our father has destroyed it. Prayers can help us for so much, but it is the real decisions of living and life that make us who and what we are. We need each other, no matter what anyone says, we do. Love is what it is all about.

The heartbreak of being disowned is horrible. I can forgive my parents, but it isn't something I forget. My parents have missed out on so much of my life. My parents are embarassed by me. They want nothing to do with me, and haven't for 30+ years. We can be civil with each other, but that is about it. We were forced into being civil with each other because of JoAnn. Now that she is gone, our relationship has gone back to being nothing. No contact whatsoever. It is best that way. It is a means of survival for me.

Forgiveness has different definitions. Some it means saying sorry, and letting it go. For others, it is thinking it, and asking God for help, but it is really just leaving it in God's Hands.

[Blade]

Sometimes we have to forgive or ask to be forgiven for things we or someone hasn't done or said. This is tricky too. How does someone know they need to ask forgiveness if they don't know they've done anything wrong. In this case I think we hold those we are in love with more accountable than we do others. Usually these might be "the small stuff" but to some people the small stuff is BIG. And harbored animosity over events or non events as it may be can build and build and build and never be resolved because person A doesn't have any idea that they hurt person B, and person B just walks away.

[Apocalipstic]

Sometimes we have to forgive or ask to be forgiven for things we or someone hasn't done or said. This is tricky too. How does someone know they need to ask forgiveness if they don't know they've done anything wrong. In this case I think we hold those we are in love with more accountable than we do others. Usually these might be "the small stuff" but to some people the small stuff is BIG. And harbored animosity over events or non events as it may be can build and build and build and never be resolved because person A doesn't have any idea that they hurt person B, and person B just walks away.

I used to just walk away if person B hurt me...now if I really care about them, I tell them and we discuss it.

It have been a really good change for me. :)

[Blade]

I used to just walk away if person B hurt me...now if I really care about them, I tell them and we discuss it.

It have been a really good change for me. :)

Certainly that is the best thing to do. I know a lot of people just shut down and you don't know why. Communication IS the key to success in any type of relationship for sure.

[Apocalipstic]

Certainly that is the best thing to do. I know a lot of people just shut down and you don't know why. Communication IS the key to success in any type of relationship for sure.


I used to be so like that. I would never say a word, but the resentment would build. I would assume the person knew how to act and they didn't.

Until I learned this, I was unable to have a good relationship. It is one of the most imortant things I have ever learned.

Great thread!

[BornBronson]

Forgiveness to me is forgetting all about it..plain and simple.Like it was yesterday,and sometimes it is.That's for all nonsense stuff.

Now if it was me who did something wrong,then I definitely would like to sit down and talk about it.It's not good to go around being so angry at me and I don't even have a clue why I made you so angry.Silence never solves anything and it never works for me..cause if i'm angry you'll know it.I tend to shout when i'm angry...and loudly.I'm talking about when i'm face to face with someone,not online.Online it's hard for me to get angry at anyone.

:fencing:

[Andrew, Jr.]

Forgiveness is hard for me. Sometimes it is like a medical miracle. When my sister was in a coma. I was angry. Pissed as shit at the doctors who gave her chemo, and stem cells, and to not think she was a mother, a sister, a daughter, a sister in law, and so on. The only thing on their minds was organ donation (think eyes, ears, etc.).

Sometimes forgiveness is just a handshake, and just letting it go. Nobody is really a winner or looser. Just equal. It is all about love, and not holding grudges.

[JinxdGirl]

I forgave and forgive..
because if I didn't and don't, you win.
because I refuse to care enough about you to hold on to hate and ill-will.
because you took too many of my years and I'm taking what's left for me.

[AtLast]

What is forgiveness....

For me is is human growth, peace of mind and detoxification in my life. To harbor resentment only blocks my being able to attain balance. I just won't allow those that have trangressed against me any more of my time or emotional energy. Rather give this to others that have character and practice integrity.

[Laerkin]

What a powerful thread. I feel so inspired by many of these words.

I had to chew for awhile...

Forgiveness is healing, acceptance, compassion.

Forgiveness is surrendering to things outside of your control to allow room for growth and movement forward.

Forgiveness is hard and painful sometimes, but the only way to release yourself from a situation and learn from it.

Forgiveness is more about the heart than the mind, like a salve for the soul.

Forgiveness is something I strive to give easily because I hope others will grant me the room to make mistakes and forgive me my wrongs.

[Corkey]

Forgiveness isn't something you give to another, it is something you allow yourself to partake.

[Brock]

It has been my experience that, in certain situations, it can be a long time coming. Even so, I feel so much better when I can forgive someone, give them a break.

[MrSunshine]

It's just letting shit go. Either you can or you can't.

[BarbaraRyan]

I think it's about choice, empowerment, and moving forward. It's the part in the process where we can stand up, acknowledge what's happened, and how it's affected us. Then, we choose to say "Okay, I can forgive that - now it's time for me to make my life and to no longer let the event or person have any control."

And it's easier said than done.

[Jess]

I think it revolves around remembering that it is not really about ME. It is about the actions of another and how great or small it may have affected me directly is what gives me grief. When I can remember that someone else's actions are not a reflection upon me, it is easier to "forgive" ( as if it is even my place to do so).

It's more of an acknowledging that they have different views/ reasons for what they do/ say/ are than I do. It's ( for me) more of just letting go.

I don't like saying " I forgive" someone as it feels like then I had some control or bearing on their action. What another choses to do/ say/ behave like has very little to do with ME and much more to do with their own stage of their journey. Who am I to forgive anyone but myself? The best I can do to make peace in my heart for any transgressions is to accept that where they are is "where they are". No forgiveness. No judgement. Just acceptance and a move toward safer waters for myself.