For me, what makes a date great is if I feel like the other person is not just in attendance, but present; and happy to be there with me. It doesn't take much to convince me of that; just a genuine smile, easy conversation, and some friendly -don't overdo it, just be easy about it- body language will do the trick.

I don't require any grand gestures beyond that. I do appreciate a door being held for me, but it isn't an issue for me if it is not. However, I do agree with whomever stated that a date had better not let a door close in their face, lol.

I've liked this thread very much and am astounded any of us manage to get together given the variety of ways we like to be treated on a date.

This one...
...is my idea of a living hell. (No offence intended in way way, LadyRieinAL. Best of luck with finding what you're looking for. :-))

If we're talking about spending time with someone we don't know very well, maybe just enough to be interested, then I want to be treated like exactly that, someone you don't know very well.

Be curious, ask stuff, if I don't want to tell you I'll say. Be ready for me to ask things about you, I will 'cos I'm interested, or I wouldn't be there. Show me who you are as best you can and I'll do the same.

Have a few ideas ready for things we might do. I'll have some too and we can figure it out together. We're both responsible for our own enjoyment.

Tell me what's important to you, what you love, what drives you mad, what your passionate about. Tell me about your mood, where you think you are in life, what you get up to. Tell me any damn thing you like.

Mostly, treat me like the competent, independent, thinking person that I am.

And that'll do nicely, thank you.

Yeah I don't really wanna be asked if someone may kiss me. I may panic and say no lol.
I dunno, I was raised on the slow move in, giving time for the other person to move away. Hint taken.
I like tension and unspoken things. Leading up to a molestation in the ally lol
Someone kissing my hand would have me saying something really smart ass.

Though one person did it once in a way that was smooth. I have never seen that repeated before in my life. I'd rather have a hand on my back. Those little physical touches back and forth, gradually accumulating in dry humping under the table hahahaha...

The leg touch with their leg, so I can move my leg or leave it there. And the spike in blood pressure that happens with that.

Or just drink beer on my couch with me and talk till it gets late and leap on me, that will do!

Oh yes...tension and unspoken things...I love all that too. When the tension is allowed to build, then moments that might come later are even hotter. The small touches of my back or hand or wherever, I need a chance to wonder if they were accidental or deliberate, what it felt like to have you touching me, if I want you to touch me again, to wait for it and want it.

I don't want to be asked about a kiss 'cos that's just the wrong dynamic altogether, too formal and polite, I don't want anything sexual to be done in a polite way. But if my date waits for me to make the first move, we will wait forever; never gonna happen, ever.

Like all kinds of touching, you'll know I'm interested 'cos I'll be physically close enough to allow you to do it. If you just can't find the moment, that'll be because I'm avoiding it. If the 'blood pressure spike' doesn't happen then it just isn't happening. This energy cannot be created artificially, it exists between two people or not, but giving it a chance to grow is the best thing ever.

Now I want to go on a date, it's been a while. Dammit.

I did something I had never done before, on my first date with my girl-friend (wrote about it somewhere in a post prior to this one).

When she walked me to my car to say goodbye ( I always used to use separate cars on a first date as a get-away, if needed); I asked her if I could kiss her goodnight.

She was not expecting it, and kind of stuttered, "Yes".

It was a great kiss, I said I enjoyed the date and got in my car and drove away.

When I looked in the rear-view mirror, she was still standing there.

It was classic and she still loves that I did that.

engaging conversation about, astronomy, art, climate change, world hunger, (in other words passionate, or compassion for people, interests or causes)

Totally agree with this chat! I would add in for me Quantum physical and energy work. Now that's what excites me :-)

as in physics? if so, that would be a very interesting conversation

I like hearing personal stories. Openness about themselves. I can't STAND "dark and mysterious" or extremely private. Its never ever worked with me and people who are really private or shy because all I want to know is about their lives and they are too gaurded/insecure to tell me all the stories of their childhood, their growing up, their jobs, their travels, their exes, their love lives... the kinds of things you share with your friends. instead they are trying to be elusive, mysterious, polite... and it BORES the living crap out of me, I bloody hate it.

I have been told "I'm not going to let you know what kind of freak I am!" (oh. too bad. and I broke it off with her. I was sorely disappointed because I actually was looking forward to getting to know her. If shes not going to share her stuff with me then its a no goer)
and "But if I don't hold things back and I tell you everything, then there will be nothing left to say and hold your interest!"
??????????????????????????????????????????? wow. that's all I can say to that one. Fuck. Really? wow. Nevermind.

I love conversation about science and quantum and biology and chemistry but... I also love highly personal stuff that people can share and joke and laugh about. People being "polite" means they are very and oh so serious. I can't deal with it. Makes me want to open my wrists. I get treated like a delicate flower and there is no banter, piss assing about, no friendship and belly laughter and hooting and just being myself. I love urban life but jesus you don't have to have pole up your arse at a good restaurant. Please don't treat me like a 1950's girl. I'm not. I'm really, really not. Treat me like a sexy best mate that gives great head and you'd love to have a pic nic with and giggle with on a road trip.
I'm not a Lady. Nor am I a princess. I'm a partner and a good friend and great sex. I get muddy and wash up and go to the theater.
I'm human. I don't care if you make a call. or don't open all my doors. I don't want a fairy tale. I want you. and an adventure.

...
 

Maybe I didn't read enough of the past post.....

But treateted on a date to me is elementary....in the BF world


Kind ,courteous,civilous,like a lady....or a queen....

I could go on and on....as we define the BF dance...


All I know is she should ALWAYS feel like the lady that she is.... So I feel like the butch I am.

That's not my definition of butch-femme. I definitely don't date folks who need to treat me like a queen. That would not work. I am still femme and still date butches. I don't enjoy the chivalry thing or any of that. Still femme. Still date butches.

Lady is such an antiquated, oppressive term. Discovering femme freed me from all that bullshit, thank god. I can cuss like a sailor, refuse to cross my legs, and I'm still a femme. Fuck "lady". *spit*

Edited to be more on topic: On a date, I like to be treated in a way that is authentic to the person I'm on the date with, so I can figure out, in an honest environment, if that person suits me and I them. Seems simple enough, no act, no fancy moves or games, just be.

I didn't say "lady" was derogatory or offensive. I said it was antiquated and oppressive. As in, it is a word that has been used to shame women and 'put them in their place' through multiple eras. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to oppress a person or group of people with one's personal sexual practices, unless rape counts as a personal, sexual practice.

I do share Ulis feelings about that word. I know lots of femmes like to "play the lady" to some knight of a butch in a fairy tale world they like to play. That is all well and good. But in many many real world places, the term lady, still pertains to it's class origins.

It's a *Title* of ownership of lands and aristocracy.

I just lived in a place that still has that title. And I know a lot of Americans think it's a quaint and shit to have a queen and barons and princesses but as someone who is NOT a royalist and would like the queens head off my money I would like to remind people that the term "Lady" is a term of privilege and class restriction. And often used as a word of shaming, even here. As in "someone who does not behave like a Lady" to shame someone for their "lack of class"

What do people really think that phrase really means, exactly? "Lack of Class" where exactly does everyone think it comes from?
It means you are common. As in not privileged and land owning.

This is very real stuff. Not just a past thing. It still goes on and I see it here and in many places where people think femmes should act like "Ladies" and butches their keep of their "honour"
Really? Do people have no honest idea that what they are playing at may be a lovely fairy game between two people in a novel fantasy, which is fabulous, but the word, in actual functioning in the real world outside of that, isn't very nice.

When butches are referred to as ladies I suspect it's not just the gender of the term that chafes to but the behaviour it also implies.

I chafe at it. I don't like it. I was never fond of it and the being constantly told to act like one, to not swear or be vulgar, cause that's not lady like. And if you aren't lady like then you have no class (privilege, back again) and don't deserve any respect.

It's a completely loaded term.

Utterly. And it often hold my tongue when it gets bandied about like it means nothing but something light and fluffy and playing princess. It pisses me off at times but I know 90% of people reading my words here won't get it or don't want to so I generally don't bother.

But Uli did not call anyone names or tell people they were worthless... She expressed her political distain at a WORD and it's oppressive use. Not a person. she may have not phrased it in a very careful way as best to avoid offending anyone's feelings, but I'm guessing that expressing a hatred of a word for good reason, people are not so incredibly delicate that expressing hatred of a word for it's political implications won't cause people to wail and bleed under their beds.

Isn't that the beauty of this site,we can have differences in our definitions and share them.What works for one may not be the preference for another.Doesn't mean one is better or worse.

I must admit that I forgot that you sometimes need to be cautious here as to what terms are used because the interpretation here sometimes ends up way left of where the intent was meant to be.

I would like to retract the term queen....after some thought it really didn't capture what I meant..all I mean was to have them feel special,appreciated,kind,polite,enjoyment,laughter ,....Yada,Yada Yada..

I enjoy the old chivalry thing......still butch...still like femmes.

The term "treat like a lady" ..... I was raised to have that mean ,show respect,don't dismiss,kind,polite,thoughtfullness. If it sounds kinda old school I think it's because I kinda am.

I may not use the most current definition or the current more modern term,but I think my intent I described above.

I just felt I needed to clarify a bit what I meant.....Thanks for listening.

(By the way Gemme that's not directed at you. That's me ranting at the entirety of the site, the butch-femme groups I left, the universe and the moon)

Actually, many folks even here have been shamed due to their sexual practices. Hell, our whole community has been shamed due to our sexual practices. That's why that came to mind for me.

You are right. My apologies for not using your exact words. For me, the sentiment is the same. Oppressive things are offensive to me, for example.

Many people, especially the younger generation, feel that the terms butch and femme are antiquated. While I don't feel that that mindset is opppressive by itself, it could be if someone decided to shame another for being one or the other.

Our community has had to take back lots of terms and words that have been used to oppress and shame us. Dyke and bull dagger and queer come to mind. Why not lady too? Why does lady have to be a measure of something? Why can't it just be?

Good discussion.

No worries! I always like to hear what's on your mind. We're all going to have words and phrases that rub us the wrong way, be they oppressive or offensive, both, or neither. :)

Thanks Gemme, glad you get my kvetching lol.

Because lady, used in most cases, is still a measure of how much class someone has. Lady still isn't just a word in our community. What's the opposite of a lady? Ask. You'll get answers. Not very nice ones. It's still very much a measure.

I've actually given up the ID of femme cause I personally can't deal with the concepts attached to it anymore, in North America. "Lady" concepts by those within the community is actually a rather big part of that for me.

I have less argument over the term "lady" outside of the butch-femme community. Far, far less. I get a lot of nods and agreement from most people. But not butch-femme on line groups. One on one? I get less argument. I get a facial expression of "ok I see your point of why it bugs you."

I would be more interested in reclaiming the word as not being a measure of anything, if it wasn't constantly being used that way in my daily life. Saying "I'm a lady" does not shock, does not challenge and does not make people think. It just looks like I'm buying in to the hierarchical pretence of privileged behaviour. Telling people "I'm not lady" is what challenges them to think about it.

Queer and dyke did not do that. It challenged people on their insults to a sexuality. That's the difference for me.