I’m not sure who this post is directed to, but I’m happy to respond.

Just to clarify first, are you saying discussing Michael Vick in this thread is pointing fingers at him or is it something specific that I, or someone else is saying? I’ve only recently posted in this thread because, quite honestly, I find the whole subject so upsetting that it is difficult for me to discuss it.

Don’t get me started on animal testing! I don’t want to derail this thread, so I’ll send you a PM. But to answer your questions: I rarely wear makeup but when I do it is cruelty free, I don’t wear leather or fur, and I’ve been a vegetarian for years. But, I’m not vegan. I eat eggs, dairy & cheese, I feel overwhelming guilt about it, because yes, it makes me complicit in the very cruelty that abhor. I also take medications that probably were tested on animals at some point. I wish I could say I was innocent, but there is blood on my hands, too.

I have never given an opinion as to whether I believe what Vick has done is forgivable or not. I did discuss the fact that I can’t forget what he did. I don’t think anyone can expect their actions to be forgotten just because we might be sorry that we did something. I would guess that for the rest of his life his name is going to be associated with dog fighting.

But in this case, the fact that his actions gained such notoriety is what will, hopefully, help him successful work to end dog fighting. He is someone who has been on both sides of the issues. That’s not something I can say. I honestly cannot imagine how a person could not just condone, but enjoy and promote something I consider so cruel. So, I most likely would not be able to connect with someone actively engaged in that type of activity. Hopefully, Vick, can and will be able to use his influence to that end.

As to getting a second chance, it seems to me that he is getting just about the best second chance ever. A lot of people said that the public outcry would keep him from playing football again. That has not happened. He has an amazing contract, he’s getting sponsor’s back, and he got a reality show. I bet most people would love to have his life after getting out of prison.

Since he is quite young, I hope that the years he spends working on behalf of animals will far outweigh the years he was involved in dog fighting. I don’t think redemption is something that happens overnight. I also don’t think it’s something to be judged by me, or the media, etc. I see redemption as a deeply personal journey, not something that can be bestowed by the public.

You make an interesting point about the possible effect of violent sports on those who play them. The problem with the comparison, in my opinion, is that people have the choice to play a sport, and football players and boxer aren’t killed if they lose a game/fight. Those are luxuries that the dogs in question never had.

Honestly who gives a fuck what people think of him. As long as HE learns his lesson, which he is in the process of doing. He didn't know he was doing wrong but now he does and now he has to live with it. Obviously this is a part of his life's journey, he is learning how to value the life of an animal. Not everyone was born with that information some of us had to learn it. Perhaps some people need to learn compassion and forgiveness. In my own opinion the only people that can judge other people about animal cruelty are the ones that live a vegan lifestyle, everyone else is just a hypocrite. Let the man learn his lesson.

As far as race goes this whole fucking thread was started on some racist bullshit. I'm not going to vote for Obama again because he's showing compassion? Give me a break.

suebee..........Please don't imply I think they are 'just dogs'. I work with dogs and have for years now. I'm so glad you do too, just remember that finger you are pointing at me and others leaves 3 pointing back at you.

I'm also am so glad you think his race is a 'mitigating' factor......it's the BIGGEST factor in all of this. Rich white men (and women) are in the dog fighting business and you don't see ANY of them on trial or see any hateful, spiteful, mean-spirited attitudes toward them.

Anybody who knows anything more than 'dog fighting is bad' can find out who is doing what. Trust me, law enforcement knows who is involved .....they just don't care unless they can take down a gifted black athlete and whip up a frenzy over it.

As I wrote, with great power comes great responsibility. Let's hope we all use it wisely.

And yes, I do use cruelty-free products and have for many years. And I voted Obama and will again. And I supported the release of Troy Davis, and I support the NAACP. And I support the end of any vestige of Jim Crow in America, including the clear and obvious use of privatized educational and prison systems to continue to oppress people of color.

In fact, I'm actually offended by racism, sexism, classism and the myriad of ways people have found to get over on one another and other species.

I'm looking forward to a time of much greater compassion and empathy by all and for all.

Mac or PC? lol just kidding

LOL Happily. I carry no illusion my soul has any greater or lesser weight than any other soul.

Then you are lucky. Some people can't even see past the vessel that houses the soul.

Thank you, Ebon. The world would open up and dance for them if they could see to the soul.

I certainly have other issues, and my exs would be happy to put on a pot of coffee and tell you so. ;-) This just isn't one of them.