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-   -   It's Time to Boycott Arizona (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1230)

Jess 05-01-2010 06:51 AM

Unfortunately, immigration reform and ALL of its implications is just another toy in the hands of politicians who are using it to better position their party for elections. The extreme right wing will play upon the fears of their pool of voters, and the Dems facing Nov elections will espouse how "something needs to be done and how they will make a difference", surely they mean right AFTER voted in.

I think we will see more folks like Crist leave their party because neither party reflects the values of that party anymore. I think we will start seeing more Independents ( YAY ) fighting for the real issues and dismissing the super-parties.

Unfortunately, what we will not see is the President keep his promise to Hispanic voters (who helped vote him into office), to work on reform laws in his first 90 days.

"Obama takes immigration reform off agenda" link to associated press article:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT



It seems to me that we ( collectively) paint a picture of our "oppressor" as Republicans ( whom we see as a bunch of bigoted old white privileged rich folks. We paint an image of Democrats as liberal hosts of freedom and equality who given the opportunity to affect positive change will leap at that chance. Neither of these images are true.

http://somosrepublicans.com/2010/04/...tion-inaction/

It gets increasingly difficult to see our country divided along the lines of race, when I think it is being divided at the hands of people in power playing the "common man" against one another. Both parties will do whatever necessary to hold steadfast to their party position. Or at least, the appearance of it.


Yes. This bill is THE single most actively racist piece of legislature I have seen in my lifetime. Yes, it is unconstitutional without a doubt. I said earlier in this thread that without action taken on the Federal level, we would see more states taking similar action and it looks like some now are.

We as a nation are being played like pawns at the hands of both parties and tear one another apart in our polarizing on this subject and many other currently being played out in the press.


Until our politicians find " US" more important than their party, we will continue to be mis-represented. Until we stop voting for them, we will continue to allow it.

key 05-01-2010 07:32 AM

The Bull Moose said it best
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor (Post 95968)
Define "livable wage", please. It's certainly not minimum wage.

What is so heartbreaking is this definition was giving - and agreed upon - in 1912. Another version came 20 years later or so from FDR when he said "A necessitous man is not a free man" - Meaning if one cannot afford the basics in life, you are a slave to a broken system. "The basics" are defined below by Theodore Roosevelt (who had to leave the Republican Party to get out from the shackles of the corporatocracy if his day - sound familiar?)

Teddy Roosevelt 1912:

We stand for a living wage. Wages are subnormal if they fail to provide a living for those who devote their time and energy to industrial occupations. The monetary equivalent of a living wage varies according to local conditions, but must include enough to secure the elements of a normal standard of living--a standard high enough to make morality possible, to provide for education and recreation, to care for immature members of the family, to maintain the family during periods of sickness, and to permit of reasonable saving for old age.

Key 2010:

Let me break it down.

A living wage must:

secure the elements of a normal standard of living
. Wages must be enough to provide enough food, water, shelter, clothing, heat, cooling, transportation, and communication. These are the basics of modern living.

a standard high enough to make morality possible. So no one has to lie cheat or steal to have all of the above necessities of modern life.

to provide for education and recreation. To be able to relax (not working two, three, four jobs) and to be able to better your and your family's station through higher education.

to care for immature members of the family Childcare, tutors, education, special needs.

to maintain the family during periods of sickness To provide health coverage during illness and recovery. to be able to not have to work when you are sick.

and to permit of reasonable saving for old age. To be able to afford to retire.

And let me be clear, I submit that these measures should be met with one (1, a single) wage earner, not mom and pop each working two or three jobs. The reason why the Republicans do not want this. (seriously, there are some crappy Dems, but 100% of the Reps are crappy - on the side of corporations over actual human beings)

Is because when there is a thriving, educated middle class they start getting "uppity", they start demanding things like....Equal Rights, Democracy, like not fighting in rich men's wars, like stopping genocides, like doing the right thing for the planet. Republicans (and some Democrats) prefer that there be no thriving middle class to question their authority.

Toughy 05-01-2010 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by friskyfemme (Post 96175)
No. I am not saying this bill is a conspiracy. The arrangement of using non federal institutions to house 'undocumented persons' has been in play in AZ since at least 2000 when I worked for the Sheriff's department in a northern county. It does offset the costs for jails. What I am saying is that the benefit of these revenues obviously can help the budget on an escalated level.
Therefore, SB1070 could have favor by some radical politicians responsible for increasing the state funds. The federal funds, of course, come from the national taxpayers. I don't know if other states have this arrangement for housing undocumented persons. I am pretty sure they do.

Pima County (tucson and the largest border with mexico) Sheriff Dupnik says he doesn't put undocumented folks in his jail. He calls ICE to come get them. I believe I said before that he detains and turns over to ICE more undocumented folks than anyone else in the US......and that is under current law (without this new racist law). Under this new law he will HAVE to put them in his jail.

Yes he (and the other jurisdictions) will get some money back from the Feds. That money will be used to pay the cost of putting that undocumented person in his jail. However, that is not a revenue generating stream of money. It is money already allocated and won't help AZ's state budget one bit. It won't go to the general food for use on roads, schools, libraries, fire police, etc.

The real question is: Will the federal money actually pay for 100% of AZ dollars spent on stopping, arresting, investigating, feeding, clothes, medical, transportation to and from courts, court costs, and other misc costs incurred by enforcement of the new state law?

The thing that still baffles me is Republicans are supposed to want LESS government, yet they keep creating more government on the state level with less tax revenue to pay for the more government they are creating.

---------
By the way they amended the new law. Something about making it more clear this is not profiling. Cops have to have another reason to pull you over than being brown while driving. They also included something about local/town/city ordinances. You know those pesky little racist laws that towns pass......no parking cars in your yard, no litter or debris in your yard or on your porch, no drinking alcohol in your front yard.....well local cops can say 'paper please' if they decide to knock on your door to enforce those laws. (And we all know mexicans are the ones who do those above things...snort).

That governor woman thinks the changes are good and will make the law more defensible when challenged in state and fed courts.

Toughy 05-01-2010 11:16 AM

you know I got to thinking about this more.........

I wonder if the feds will pay a dime for someone jailed under a state law? At what point does that person cease to be a state prisoner and becomes a fed prisoner temporarily housed in a city/county jail.?

Corkey 05-01-2010 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy (Post 96420)
you know I got to thinking about this more.........

I wonder if the feds will pay a dime for someone jailed under a state law? At what point does that person cease to be a state prisoner and becomes a fed prisoner temporarily housed in a city/county jail.?

At what point do they become political prisoners?

SuperFemme 05-01-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy (Post 96420)
you know I got to thinking about this more.........

I wonder if the feds will pay a dime for someone jailed under a state law? At what point does that person cease to be a state prisoner and becomes a fed prisoner temporarily housed in a city/county jail.?

I think that the person will have to serve a sentence in State custody and then will be released to Immigration for deportation. That is why they made it a crime.

I know here in CA you serve the time for a crime if you are undocumented and THEN they turn you over to Immigration.

eta: I don't see Federal monies coming to the state of AZ for the incarceration of persons housed for breaking a state crime. When the Feds rent jail space for holding people in Federal custody, then monies change hands. Not so much for State custody incarcerations.

SuperFemme 05-01-2010 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor (Post 96236)
I've been listening to a number of conservative officials and pundits discuss the need for this legislation, and they all focus on the drug smuggling being done on the ranches along the border and always mention the rancher who was killed.

I don't categorize people moving back and forth across the border with drugs and guns as undocumented individuals; they're gun runners and drug smugglers. It seems to me that this law is aimed squarely not at the smugglers but rather at the people who have crossed the border to stay in this country for weeks/months/years and are by and large seeking out work that pays better than what they can find in Mexico or Central America.

So tell me, please, because no one on TV will ask this question. How will demanding papers from people in non-border regions of AZ reduce the problem of drugs and guns being smuggled back and forth over the border?

I cannot tell you how it will reduce the problem of guns and drugs being smuggled back and forth. I CAN assure you that the price of a good set of forged papers just went up exponentially though.

SuperFemme 05-01-2010 01:25 PM

Please sign up and attend this event:

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/...21559341189362

apretty 05-01-2010 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy (Post 96398)
The thing that still baffles me is Republicans are supposed to want LESS government, yet they keep creating more government on the state level with less tax revenue to pay for the more government they are creating.


yes yes yes!

this invites government right into our lives! so, i have to wonder if it was government that the republicans were 'fearing' all along--or POCs..? --doesn't sound like government is *so bad* if it's WHITE.

boo.

suebee 05-02-2010 10:42 PM

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7850638_n.jpg

theoddz 05-03-2010 02:36 PM

This article on msnbc.com today presents an alternate view of the situation in Arizona. It's worth a read, I think.

What really grabbed my eye was the last sentence in the article, which reads, "Gonzales favors an approach backed by many other law-enforcement and immigration specialists: the federal government, he says, must step in to make the border more secure and to amend the system so more Mexicans can enter the country legally—without the "help" of criminal cartels."

I think that may be a better solution, rather than what, to me, seems to be what this new law in AZ does....violate our national Constitution.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/237196

~Theo~ :bouquet:

Corkey 05-03-2010 02:53 PM

Yea, but it isn't just our neighbors to the south, they are just in the scope of this racist law.

Apocalipstic 05-03-2010 03:04 PM

Yes, I would like for people to be able to get to the US legally, as it were, though I have a problem with geopolitical borders, but I find it difficult to believe that this new legistation is to make immigration easier.

Soon 05-03-2010 03:45 PM

Not Just Arizona: From Utah To Maryland, States Eye Harsh Immigration Laws

MsDemeanor 05-03-2010 04:01 PM

Gee, go figure....the hysteria around a murder that pushed this whole thing may be based on bad information

The killing of a Southern Arizona rancher that sparked an outcry to secure the border was not random, and investigators are focusing on a suspect in the United States, the Arizona Daily Star has learned.

linkyloo

The_Lady_Snow 05-03-2010 05:35 PM

Time Wise
 

The_Lady_Snow 05-05-2010 10:20 AM

Let the good times roll
 
"
So it's arrest 'em if they're brown first, and sort 'em out later. False arrest and imprisonment be damned."



Diva 05-05-2010 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 99331)
"
So it's arrest 'em if they're brown first, and sort 'em out later. False arrest and imprisonment be damned."





So it's happening exactly as was predicted. Arresting ~ and holding ~ innocent folks based on how they look.

This STINKS. That poor woman.



The_Lady_Snow 05-05-2010 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diva (Post 99340)
So it's happening exactly as was predicted. Arresting ~ and holding ~ innocent folks based on how they look.

This STINKS. That poor woman.




Right?

I wanted to scoop her up and hug her she looks terrified..

:soapbox:

The_Lady_Snow 05-05-2010 12:23 PM







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