and clay weighs in....
 

So, I have watched & read all the posts, vascillating back & forth. So I will now weigh in...with my own $.02
I agree with all that has been said in Gemme's previous post.

It is especially disheartening trying to get folks to post their hiatus period, as was all agreed upon in the original discussion & acceptance of these parameters!

These rules were not hastily made, we continually had late, missing, and even moneyless projects.
No matter how I express my thoughts, I run risk of being the "ass" as nanners so elegantly said...:). But it has really been heavy on my heart & mind, so I will try to explain my thoughts, kindly & gently.

IN NO WAY am I trying to point a finger or make anyone feel badly, but the facts are the facts.

I think the world of Breathless, and in this instance, it is that particular package arrival that is the delay. I WANT her to be able to come in again. By that same token, we made the rules, all agreed, and I feel if we have to keep making decisions, making allowances for this and not for that, then we kind of shoot ourselves in the foot.

That rule came about after more than once several projects by a few participants were either late, never received, etc. for whatever the reason.

If this were an isolated incident that had happened, by all means, allow special consideration. But, and again, am NOT trying to be the meanie here, it has happened on more than a couple of occasions with mail either being totally lost or arriving post deadline. To her credit, Breathless did do a hurried up remake of one of the projects & spent the extra $$ to get them here.

I wholeheartedly know it sucks for Breathless to have to wait 6 months to participate in projects. I can only imagine having to wait, but it WAS a collaborative group effort with input to put the 6 months wait into effect. It was done by a fairly consistent group of participants, and everyone got a say so..


That came about after more than once several projects by a few participants were either late, never received, etc. I know for myself, it was always disheartening to never get some of the projects for whatever the reason.
Everyone had their reasons, and I understand sometimes things will just happen with receiving projects from Canada. I agree they should most definitely be sent in a package form, by DHL. That way it CAN be tracked.

I am all for adding in an extra 2 weeks for Breathless & Sis, for future projects. I am okay with that. Be it at front end of or back end of projects.


Most projects are at the very least 6 weeks timeframes....that is ample time to get projects done...and again, allow an extra 2 weeks for out of country participants!

As I said, I am all for the extra time, but I can honestly say, sometimes, we are all probably in that frame of mind, thinking, oh I have x number of weeks, so I can wait to get it done & in mail, etc. or to start them, then send "rapid mail delivery"..so procrastination can sometimes happen with the longer time frames...and bring us back to the same issue once again later down the pike.




I feel it would only be fair to give both purepisces & Breathless special dispensation for this time...or neither gets a pass.
. I would not feel it fair to give dispensation to one and not the other.

I am just wanting the rules to be fairly applied to everyone.......either all or none...:)




And I have one extra accolade for CCB.

I am so proud of CCB, she took her "medicine" & she has made every effort to be on time, every time, and usually she is first in with returned projects! Good job, kiddo!




Now, what is our next project, and who wants to wrangle...:).

Thank you, clay! I learned my lesson LOL, now apply it to knowing I have to be on the front end of things or it won't get done.

I'd like to try and wrangle this next one. Gemme mentioned my Mermay project which was a challenge issued by artist Jane Davenport to create a mermaid for every day of the month of may. Each day had a different prompt, up to the person doing the artwork to interpret. I'd like to come up with a prompt and have everyone do an original work of art based on that prompt but I still have a little thinking about logistics and how to work out doing a project which is a larger undertaking.

I'm thinking each person makes and receives one original work of art, people to be randomly assigned. Sized the same, same prompt. But I just can;t see doing an original work for an entire group of people. Also, it would allow for more people to participate because we won't have to be worried about creating 6, 7, 10 individual paintings.

Therefore this would be a project where we have to be REALLY careful to sign up for because you will leave your assigned partner emptyhanded if you don't follow through.

These are my initial thoughts. I am thinking either mermaids or unicorns. If I wrangle I decide and decide the prompt. That's the catch. :P

Oh, I didn;t mean do it for a month. Just ONE piece. I was just using the mermaid prompt story as the jumping off point for this project.

My opinion is:

Rules stay exact same and are followed precisely the same for everyone. If at the beginning of a project, someone from outside the US chimes in that they would appreciate an extra 2 weeks (or something that seems okay to everyone), I'm cool with that, but once the start date for the project is agreed on by everyone, the rules are firm.

I, as you know, love this idea. I wouldn't have brought it up if I didn't. I vote for mermaids, if we're adding our input. I'm fine with you wrangling and I'm fine with you choosing the prompt and if there are mailing issues, I'm close enough to just drive the damn thing to you.

What size were you thinking?

:rubberducky:

Honestly, I'd have to go back through the thread to find out how everything panned out but I do remember the project. I had a hard time with that one. Did you do the watermelon magnet? It's on my fridge but there's no name on the back.

Again, without going back to check I can't be 100% certain, but I think that you were very upfront about it all so there wasn't anything else to say. I could be wrong as it's been a while but I thought you were great about the whole situation and agree that we can't start bending the rules here and there because eventually the weak spots will break and it'll all go to Hell in a handbasket.

Some people don't take these projects as seriously as others. Maybe I take them too seriously. They are important to me and I know the time and thought that I put into them, even if the finished product doesn't look like it, so I respect the time and effort others put into their work as well. In fact, I still have EVERY project that I've participated in.

Maybe that's why I have so much crap in my craft room.
:blink:

I think you make excellent points in the underlined text. If the majority want to tweak the rules, I have no problem working that out but am usually of the 'if it's not broke, don't fix it' mentality.

I went back to the first project I initiated here in January of 2010--it was a GREAT way to start off the New Year!--and the rules initially said that the projects must have a post date of a particular date.

If memory serves me, even when they had an 'on time' post date, projects were held up as they came in from different parts of the world and that's part of how we evolved into our current rules and time frames. We wanted to make sure that the participants knew exactly when their projects were due, exactly when they arrived, exactly when they would be put together and exactly when to expect them in their greedy little hands. Why participate if you didn't know if you were going to get anything back? So we worked those rules out.

The time outs came along because the process wasn't being completed in a timely manner. What was the ramification if one was late and held everyone else up? Nothing. So we did something about that so there was an incentive to get them in on time. That's how we got to the time out clause and it's worked without issue up to this point.

My fear is that we will begin to judge one another's situations. For example, I was late because my kid was in the hospital versus I was late because I lost my job and had to wait for funds to come in to mail it out, but it was done on time. Both situations SUCK and both could lead to projects being received late. IMO, both should take some time off. Granted, these are extreme examples but I think they need to be for my point to get across. I don't want to be put in that situation of having to choose who is more worthy of a 'free pass' (stealing Lyte's phrase). I respect all of my co-participants equally and don't want anyone to feel less than for any reason.

This is good! Beauty and brains.

Going forward, is everyone okay with making a modification to the time frame if we do it before the final sign up closes?

How it could work is CCB writes out her time frame for the Mer/corn Project and if sis wants to sign up, she'll add a note onto her name.

Sign up
1. CCB
2. Gemme
3. nyc
4. clay
5. nan
6. sis----please add 7 days to the project for mailing?
7. Besame

so on and so forth

If no additional time is requested by the date of the final sign up, that's it.

We've actually added two time frames for folks. The one in which the wrangler is supposed to receive the project and one additional week for mailing and whatnot. The other option is to automatically extend the LATE LATE time frame to TWO weeks beyond the initial time frame.

Projects are due in CCB's hands by July 31st. Projects are late and you will be on a timeout by August 14th. Normally, it would be August 7th as the final final deadline.

I'm okay with either option but only with ONE option, not both. Then it gets into waiting months for the projects to come back and that's what we were trying to avoid.

I agree with the aforementioned handling if the rule. Everyone gets their time out, no exceptions. And if someone is mailing from another country, and feels they need extra time to ensure mailing, then the request is made at sign up, at the beginning of the project.

I will think on how to word my project and write it up by tomorrow. I was also leaning towards mermaids so since two other people have said they prefer mermaids, that's good enough for me.

The size of the finished pieces needs to be consistent, so I could use input on sizing. Keeping in mind that you will be creating ONE special painting. I think it needs to be substantial but not too big obviously. I am not a good one to answer this because I am used to working a very large scale. I don't know what would be a reasonable size for everyone.

Somehow I don't have the quote thingy figured out ..... I'm quoting Gemme here: Honestly, I'd have to go back through the thread to find out how everything panned out but I do remember the project. I had a hard time with that one. Did you do the watermelon magnet? It's on my fridge but there's no name on the back. Yes, I did the watermelon.

And, again, I'm quoting Gemme here: Again, without going back to check I can't be 100% certain, but I think that you were very upfront about it all so there wasn't anything else to say. I could be wrong as it's been a while but I thought you were great about the whole situation and agree that we can't start bending the rules here and there because eventually the weak spots will break and it'll all go to Hell in a handbasket. I wasn't 'upfront' about anything. I made the decision to take a timeout, re-do my project, and send it out directly to all US participants who had sent their project to Besame. Frankly, I think nothing was 'great' about the whole situation. Again, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING, not even me.

Perhaps some folks think I'm being a witch about stating/clarifying my point.

I will also state that when I was living Overseas the projects I participated in were my lifeline to the Western world. I would share them with co-workers who were amazed at what I had received. I felt like this aging, Femme, single-crochet-hooker actually had some talent that could be shared and, in turn, be appreciated. My participation in this group encouraged me to start up an exchange with local people (co-workers of all nationalities) that still continues and to which I occasionally participate.

Until 'rules' were implemented EVERY exchange I was a part of had people not sending in their pieces - yes, this one AND the one I started in China. However, the group in China was/are able to meet face-to-face and speak to how they were/are doing to make their commitment and this seemed to help with staying focused and project completion. Depending on the Wrangler, there was/are also physical check-ins which greatly improved project completion - I send photos to the Wrangler for transparency! Now, there are actually three groups of 10 that intermingle and exchange art three times per school year. But, they are a stickler for the rules.

We have a great thing going here but we do need to step-up, be transparent, take responsibility, and take our lumps. With the CD project I fell into a grey area - I did send it to the official Wrangler however it didn't make it to the US Wrangler (out of my control). I did ask Besame for her mailing address so I could mail it directly to her but I wasn't prepared to wait and mail it for the time period she was available to be on be-on-the-lookout-for-BF-packets (My decision; I was concerned it would arrive late).

Still, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING, including me. And, typically, I wouldn't say anything but I realize I am distancing myself from participating. If we're going to talk about rules, maybe ALL packages need to be TRACKED regardless of whether you are in the next city over or halfway around the world. I was able to track all packages I sent from Mainland China to wherever they were going in the world (and they ALL made it to their destination). DHL is a wonderful company. For those in the USA, USPS was fantastic when I lived in NC and WI. Perhaps the cost is prohibitive for some - this is one of the reasons I'm not participating in many projects; perhaps for some it will mean they can't participate. However, TRACKED packages should eliminate the postal service being the cause of projects NOT arriving.

Thank you for reading/listening.

Deb still drinking that :tea:

.

What about 4 x 6 inches, the average size of s piece of cardstock. Though I would advise cutting watercolor paper down to size if you are going to use wet media at all. Cardstock just can't hold up.

Yaaaay! Mermaaaaiiiiids!!!

I think either 4x6 or 5x7 would be good. Big enough to show something nice but not too big to be overwhelming.

Okay, now stop trying to make things more complicated than they are. That's my job.

:eyebrow:

We will be doing ONE piece. That one piece will be exchanged with one person. Basically, CCB will play artsy matchmaker. You make your mermaid (yaaaaay!) for that person and that person will make a mermaid just for you (yaaaaay!). It's like a matchbox project without the matchbox. lol Totally distinctive and designed with the recipient in mind. I think it's an awesome idea.

Now, question. What happens if we have an odd number of participants? Will we have a group of three that will exchange if that should happen?

I like 4 by 6.

Oh, and I also loved the watermelon magnet. It was a stand out.

I am going to randomly assign people so the person you make for will not be the person who makes for you. It will be even more interesting that way I thought! I have a system devised already.

I will post details tomorrow, I PROMISE. Everything should then be clear.

Since we'd only be making a project piece for one person how will we decide who gets who for a partner? Also as far as an uneven number of participants goes how about the wrangler, or someone who volunteers to, sits out if there aren't enough participants for every one to have a partner. I'd be willing to do it. Say seven people sign up I'd just sit out so six people could be partnered up. But if eight people sign up before the deadline then I'd make one for the whichever person I'm assigned to. I wouldn't want to do it all the time for every exchange but I'd volunteer to take a turn at it. It's not like we have a lot of these one on one projects. Lastly, I liked the idea of people making either a mermaid or a unicorn to give – their choice, rather than everyone has to make the same thing. Everyone would make a painting just we'd have a choice about which of the two mythological creatures we make to give. Well unless anyone has a mermaid or unicorn phobia. In which case you have your partner now work it out amongst yourselves via private message.

If there's an uneven number of participants I will partner twice and create two paintings. I will randomly pair people together myself as Wrangler.

The theme is mermaids. I'm not budging on it at this point. The whole point is we all do the same exact prompt and see how each person interprets it differently. Sorry but I'm a hardass when it comes to my projects.

Also, can we PLEASE save questions and comments until I have posted the description of the project tomorrow? Most things will be cleared up once I post.

Also also, please remember I am now officially Wrangler so it's my project and my guidelines from this point on. Sorry if people feel butthurt about it, but that's just how I am. If enough people don't want me to wrangle this project I'll step down.

I was thinking the same thing.

It kind of misses the whole point of the project though, which is to have everyone interpret the same prompt. If you're picking and choosing between mermaids and unicorns, it's no longer the same prompt. That's my only issue with it. Does that make sense?

The point is to have the same exact jumping off point and have everyone interpret it. When I said I was choosing between mermaids and unicorns I meant in my head I'd been deciding whether the prompt would be about mermaids OR unicorns, not that we were doing both. I apologize if that was unclear.

Ok, I'd like to post the project guidelines/my vision BEFORE we start hashing out details. I'm going to do that at 5AM because frankly I'm a little cranky about all the comments and questions when I specifically asked people to please wait until I posted the project. I'm also on my period, so please excuse my lack of more patience LOL. I'm gonna work on the project right now and get it up ASAP but will probably take a while to type up.

I will *NOT* be posting sign ups yet, to let people speak their minds but I also feel too many cooks in the kitchen can be a bad thing better than a good thing but I also know we've been a democratic thread so I will CONSIDER other points of view before finalizing the project for sign ups.

MY VISION
 

***MERMAID PAINTING EXTRAVAGANZA***

This project was born out of a personal project I did myself during the month of May with another online art group. The fabulous mixed media artist Jane Davenport started a project called "Mermay" and the idea was this: It was centered around mermaids, hence it being "Mermay". For every day of the month of may she issued a prompt for the day for everyone to interpret in their own way with the only restriction being that it had to be a mermaid. For instance one prompt was "Spectacles and tentacles" one was "Hello sailor" and another was "Musical scales". I did do a mermaid every day for the month of May and Gemme followed this on Facebook, which brings us here.

She said she enjoyed seeing my mermaids every day and would like to see a project where everyone interpreted the same prompt, like I did for Mermay, in this thread. So I of course jumped on it and said wow, I'd love to wrangle that. Perhaps I did so prematurely, but stick with me folks until the end before we discuss the project.

Now, what made Mermay fun is that it was a Facebook group of 20,000 people interpreting the SAME prompt every day and coming up with such diverse works of art. You wouldn't believe some people's ingenuity. I'd love to do that here.

The idea for our project is thus: create ONE painting for your partner interpreting the prompt/challenge I issue to the group. For this project I would like to introduce the prompt of creating a mermaid with FRECKLES AND SPECKLES in mind. This can be interpreted in any way you see fit. Use your imaginations! (Again, the whole point being seeing how people interpret the same prompt). Everyone will create their painting for their partner, which will randomly be assigned by me. I will NOT be personally be pairing people together to be fair. It will be more of a pick names out of a hat type of dealio. In the event of an odd number of participants I volunteer as wrangler to partner with the extra person as well and make two paintings. I'll end up getting two paintings in my possession in the end, which may not seem fair, but I will also be putting forth twice the work not to mention wrangling so that's my way of dealing with an odd number of participants.

THE PAINTING: should be 5 x 7 inches in size to allow enough room to do a proper painting but still be easily mailable. PLEASE be thoughtful in your process as everyone will be working very hard on this and wants to receive something as special as they made so bring out your bells and whistles! It's not a contest about ability, anyone can join, but just be sure to put your best foot forward and put time and thought into your painting. Please make sure the painting is the correct size and flat enough to mail reasonably. I like my embellishments as much as the next girl or guy, and you can use some but please don't try and send something through the mail that's 3D or super heavy.

I suggest everyone cut a piece of watercolor paper down to size instead of using cardstock, as cardstock tends to buckle when anything wet is introduced. So if you want to use paint or even Mod Podge, please consider this suggestion. If you are using only dry media, such as colored pencils or crayons or fabric, cardstock should suffice but good quality paper is always a nice touch. That's just my plug.

THE TIMELINE: I suggest 8 weeks to complete this project. It's involved and I want to allow people to really use their imaginations and create something that showcases their best ability and effort. The sign up (once I post it) will be up for one week, then the 8 week period will commence. If anyone out of the country feels they need extra time to allow for longer mailing periods PLEASE mention it at the front end of the project when you sign up and we will add an extra week (I think this is what we decided) for you. All rules and regulations apply to this project but I'm not going to ass the blurb now.

Ok, feel free to discuss: the mermaid vs. unicorn dilemma (knowing I STRONGLY feel it should just be mermaids), size of project, timelines, etc. I will try to check my impatience and be open to suggestions and what the majority of the group wants. The one thing I will NOT budge on is my prompt of SPECKLES AND FRECKLES.

AWESOME idea!!!
 

I agree with everything CCB. The only thing I ask that you add is Gemme's suggestion of posting pics of our artwork after we have received them. It feels very unfair (!) and also misses out on an important aspect of the project if only you get to see all the artworks and different interpretations, and we each only get to see one. I realize this is also asking you to do extra work, but I would personally appreciate it very much. One alternative I can suggest - everyone could send in their original artwork, and enough photocopies for everyone else. That way, each person would receive one original artwork and photocopies of all the others. (This is just an alternative idea for everyone's perusal, I am equally open to either the pics in the gallery or photocopies.)

Thanks for your input clay, Gemme, and GeorgiaMa'am.

I agree that an esstential part of the project is lost when you only get to see one person's interpretation of the theme. I like GeorgiaMa'am's idea of submitting enough photocopies with the original for the other participants so everyone gets to see what everyone else did!

I won't be able to participate in the next group art project, but I like mermaid art and will look forward to reading about ccb's latest group artwork project.

Also, I just want to express my appreciation to all members (past and present) for the genuine commarderie among everyone and to say also, that I am proud of everyone for expressing their views and assisting in negotiating for equity among members of the art group, and for clarity and application of rules for member participation.


--K. :bunchflowers:

I gots NATURE!!!!
 

Great idea, Ga!!
 

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, for all the precious ATC art I received today in the mail!!!

Each ATC was an joy to see and I loved the personal notes and cards that came with them. :stillheart:

What an group of amazing artists we have in our community!

I treasure each one and I thank each one of you from the bottom of my heart.



--K. :hk2:

CCB, first (and I put this in rep but mentioning here too), you and I were posting at the same time, so I missed your post reminding folks to wait on the input and gave input! How embarrassing. My apologies!

I'm good with mermaids. I'm good with 5 by 7. I'm good with photocopies. I personally prefer photocopies because I am a little more private with my art and like to keep it amongst the group, but that's just me.

I have some questions / clarifications:

1) If I am understanding correctly, it can be a watercolor painting but alternatively the participant is allowed to choose a different type of paint or dry media only (pens, pencils, crayons, markers). Is this correct?

2) Is collage another option, and if so can it all be collage, and if not, what is the ratio that generally could be collage? I am thinking along the lines of something like tiny torn paper collages, that kind of thing. With a 5 by 7 background of course.

3) Will we know who we are making the art for once the sign-up has closed and you have had time to draw the names from a hat? I am hoping yes, as I like to use that individual as a muse while I work on the art.

4) Is it okay to integrate words into our projects?

1) It does NOT have to be a watercolor painting, I was just saying watercolor paper usually makes the best base. You can color pencil, crayon, marker, acrylic your little heart out. There are NO rules as to what can be used.

2) Collage is absolutely an option. I'd like to keep it to the 5x7 size, but that's the only constraint. What you described sounds perfect.

3) I will announce the partners as soon as I have assigned them so you can know who you are creating for. Using one another as muses is exactly what I want,!

4) Of course :)

Also, no worries about posting a question while I was reminding people to wait, it happens and it was mainly out of my own crankiness anyways, which I apologize for.

I really have ZERO rules or exceptions as far as what materials be used as long as it's notunusually heavy or thick. I don't think that would be a problem with anyone but just keep in mind it does have to be mailed.

I hear you on keeping the copies of art within the group. I think color photocopies is the way to go.

Thank you very much, CCB. Very excited for the project!

I will wait to post final details and sign ups until we have heard from nanners, as she said she was coming back. Also allow others to chime in with questions or concerns.

What does it mean that it is postmarked 6/7/18? That it wasn't mailed until the date of 6/7/18? My apologies for not knowing all the mail terminology :blink:

..............