I disagree, Chancie. There weren't any public institutions at the time of the Founding Fathers. Heck, there was barely an army! It was a fight to get banks; the first government fell apart and had to be replaced.

And schools? There were NO public schools in the US until the 1800s, and education was not compulsory before 1852. All the Founding Fathers were dead by then, so we cannot blame the Christianity ingrained in the system on them; it rightly belongs to the officials in the mid-1800s to the early 1900s.

I believe it's a mistake to confuse Deism and Christianity, btw. Deists believe in a non-specified Supreme Being, as well as in the ability of reason to explain the world, no faith or religion needed; Christians believe in a very specific God named Jehovah/Yahweh, in the primacy of faith over reason, and in the need for institutionalized religion. The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deist.

I think some schools already refer to holidays as breaks, but much of the time, the actual time the kids are off is based around Christmas or New Year's or Easter...

Yes...in terms of planning for homework, exams, etc...it seems smarter to include most holidays. Like, what if the teacher had a mid-term planned for a certin week, but 20% of the class would potentially be out because of Ramadan? In terms of teachers and parents being able to make lesson plans and to provide cohesive cirriculum, I agree.

I say remove all the holidays, or at least calling them holidays. So Winter break, Spring break etc. My child goes to a Jewish day school that is run on the Jewish calendar. If she went to public school I would just take her out for the High Holidays and Passover.

My son attends a public school that calls all breaks by non-religious names - winter break, spring break - but that coincide with the dates of the Christian holidays.

However, because there is a large Jewish population here, the Jewish high holidays are also observed and there is no school. It's a little ironic that his school is technically closed for Yom Kippur but not for Christmas or Easter. No one seems to object, however.

The first Muslim students started at his school this year, and those kids were exempt from school on their religious holidays. The school also invited a Muslim religious leader to come talk to the school about what those holidays were and their significance beforehand, since most children (and parents) in the school had no knowledge about that faith. It wasn't mandatory for anyone to attend...more of a reception and learning opportunity.

I appreciate that his school makes an effort to talk about all faiths and cultures, and observes and celebrates an immense variety of holidays...even though the children attending are not terribly diverse. I think they enrich the children's education and broaden their minds. I also think they need the breaks...so the traditional couple of weeks in winter and spring (particularly here when we're buried in snow) are much appreciated, even though we are quite secular in our celebrations.

I believe in division of church and state and that students need breaks. The word holiday comes from Holy Day and Public School should not have Holy Days.

However, If a child is pulled out of school for a religious function by their parents, I do not believe the child should be penalized. It is not their fault if their parents are super religious.

I do remember frustration both as a child and an adult that the fervently religious somehow end up with extra holidays. We all got/get the major Christian Holidays off, but for example other kids got Christmas and other holy days off.

I might not be in church on Good Friday, but I might want to color eggs for Spring. *harrumph*.

I am not really sure how it should be handled. Year round school with neutrally named days off?

And while we are at it, can we get rid of Columbus Day and Thanksgiving please?

I agree with you, Corkey. I have never understood why religious (read: Christian) holidays were a part of a school calendar, especially with school prayer out the window.

This piqued my interest and I went to check Bratboy's high school calendar for the 10-11 year - 24 school holidays with two being religious. Good Friday and Easter Monday.

Easter Monday?!?!?!? Until we moved to smalltown, BFE VA, I had never HEARD of "Easter Monday." Last year, the mominlaw planned a big family shindig... on Easter Monday. Imagine her shock and awe that my company didn't recognize it AND that I had never even fathomed such a thing. The look on her face was one who had just seen the debil herself :dance2:

Come to our neck of the woods and you have businesses recognizing Easter Monday. *eyeroll* I'm not certain why its a holiday, but it is. Guess that stone rolling on Easter Sunday requires recuperation time!

(No offense to any who might celebrate Easter Monday, but with my hellfire and brimstone upbringing in the Southern Baptist Convention, this wasn't ever mentioned)

You said it way better than I. Thank you.

This is an interesting thought for me. Obviously, because I grew up here in the US, there has always been the controversy about separation of church and state. We always said the pledge of allegiance and had breaks based around religious holidays. This was the 70's. It was later that holidays turned into -spring break- and -winter break- although we always knew it was because of Easter or Christmas. I mean, the only other holidays were things like Labor Day, Memorial Day, etc.

Maybe it is a Virginia thing? I have never heard of it either, but I also come from a nest of Southern Baptists.

Maybe it is so the girls who have corsages for easter can't wear them to school the next day?

In Canada, students of non-Christian faith are allowed to take their own religious holidays off. I grew up in an area with a high Christian Orthodox population, and eastern European kids who observed those holidays (particularly Orthodox Easter which varies from Catholic Easte) were always permitted to take their own Easter and Good Friday off. Just as Chinese students were able to take the Chinese New Year off (actually, Chinese New Year has become pretty big in Toronto even among those who aren't of Chinese descent). Same thing went for all other faiths and nationalities. Personally, I'm perfectly ok with this practice of letting religious individuals take days off according to their own holidays, as long as they aren't made official holidays. I don't believe religion or religious holidays have any place in public schools or in the work place. As such, I don't think we should be adding in any other religious holidays into the system, since we're already trying to eradicate/rename/re-identify the Christian ones.

I wouldn't say that most or even the majority of our holidays are religious holidays in Canada, in the school system or outside of it. Our national statutory holidays are Christmas Day, New Year's Day, Canada Day, Labour Day and Good Friday (though a lot of shops are still open on Good Friday anyway, in Toronto).

Mid-term break in the school system coincides with Thanksgiving (second week of October here in Canada), and just makes sense with the way the Canadian public school system organises its semesters. However, I should also note that Thanksgiving in Canada does not have the same religious connotations as in the US, and is not counted as a religious holiday here.

As for Christmas holidays, it isn't referred to as such here anymore (at least, I haven't heard it referred to that way officially since middle school). In schools it's referred to as the winter holidays/vacation rather than Christmas holidays. In some universities a portion of the winter holidays are also known as "exam time." I am against this particular "holiday," personally :p

Whatever you choose to call it, I think it should remain. Students need the break. I'm of the belief that breaks are a good thing and should not be reduced. Germany is one of the nations with the most (largely religious) holidays in the world, and yet its population is one of the most productive in the world, with a good work ethic. I think it goes to show, that as long as the work ethic is high, holidays are good thing. North American society is far too high strung at times.

Other commonly celebrated holidays that warrant a day off school in Canada are Victoria Day (last Monday in May, celebrates Queen Victoria's birthday) aka the infamous May 2-4 weekend, Civic Holiday at the beginning of August and Family Day in February (which they just made up to give people a break in February because we didn't have one :P). We also have March Break in public schools, which typically coincides with Reading Week in universities.

The only real religious holiday left is Good Friday, really. I think that would be a tough one to get rid of, and I'm not sure it would really be necessary to get rid of it right now. The problem I have with renaming religious holidays (I don't think the breaks themselves should be removed) is that we start pretending those days are something they are not. It's like the aftermath of the French revolution when the government began renaming things that had religious or monarchic connotations according to so-called "French culture" (which excluded regional cultures like Norman, Breton and Provençal in favour of a so-called "unified French culture"). To me it just becomes this kind of Orwellian double-speak that I'd rather not see infect society. I think the holiday will eventually eliminate itself. In Canada only approximately 25% of the population attends religious services regularly or even considers religion of significant importance in their lives. More than likely this trend will continue, and the holiday well eventually rename itself, so to speak, at which point it will be far more genuine. It's very easy to rename Christmas holidays as winter holidays, and if the same was done with Good Friday I would be fine with that...as long as it was not renamed to something ridiculous as is sometimes done when the government wants to put in an extra holiday.

That's my take on the matter, anyway, and I, personally, hope that eventually the last of of the religious holidays observed in the Canadian school system (Good Friday) will soon go the way of the dodo bird, by choice of the Canadian people.

Thanksgiving was never religious in my home. It is just like Sassy said. It is all about food!

I look at it as a day to celebrate the White Man's survival with help from the Native people whose land they took and whom they abused and killed either outright or with White Men's diseases.

I find obligatory family events really stressful too.

I like Halloween...yes, I know it has religious connotations too, but I love the Gothic stuff!

Hi Sassy!

I read the article that you linked us to. One of the things I found interesting was how they framed the message - kind of like a dichotomy, two sided story (re: the choice between religion and school).

I think the issue, as it's framed in the article, seems problematic by nature in that, to me, preference for type of education or religion seems to be two separate subjects and to me, again, it's hard to integrate that particular stream of thought in productive ways that enhances life for those who dwell in particular communities.

I wonder if there are any social models out there (maybe in Europe?) that address community needs in a way that allow members of the community to set up a way for the school year that plans for and incorporates holiday time to observe particular religious/spiritual practices?

I don't know how feasible it is, but I wonder if at a district level (for instance, like here in the PDX metro area), schools could have the power to amend or adopt or set up a particular schedule that meets the needs of members of the community that access shared set of resources and sets of social/religious beliefs???

I think the conversation concerning your article reflects the many ways the social dilemmas that communities face, as communities become more diverse: for example, social policy that's currently utilized anywhere is a herculian task to address- due to variances of particular cultures clustering in communities in any place you could throw a dart on the map. I think one of the things that makes it hard to unravel or problem solve this issue is that we (the general "we") tend to want to distill issues into singular equations that are simpler to solve and it's usually pretty difficult to reduce it to those particular terms because of the social complexity that makes up each type of community.

I don't know if what I've written about seems helpful (I'm not fully awake yet either) but it's what came to my mind in thinking about your article and I hope it adds to the conversation here!

ps/ I couldn't vote on your poll either because the options seem to not have a wide enough range for me to participate - so my post here is in lieu of a poll vote as "other" but not how it's framed in the poll.