I tend to have a pretty hair trigger, I do have to say. I can't stand what I perceive to be an injustice...no matter what it is. Is it effective? Not always. Is it disruptive? Sometimes. But it's instinct for me to run my mouth, I guess. My mom couldn't figure out why the bus stopped at our house when I was in the second grade but I never got off. She went over to see what was going on, and I was lecturing high schoolers that were making fun of a boy who loved to wear makeup and jewelry to school. I never got any more control over it. lol I don't know, cruelty and ignorance of any kind make me nuts, but if you hurt my butch I'm just vicious. It's not necessarily a good thing.

I guess it's not so much a matter of femme/butch protectiveness, I mean, I would get defensive in any situation where a loved one is being judged or harassed or whatever.
But of course, witnessing the person we love the most and are in love with for being who they are, being harassed or attacked for those very reasons, is a very difficult thing to handle for anyone I guess.
My partner almost never loses her cool, I don't know how she does it, well, she is way calmer in every aspect of life, while I'm quite hot tempered and when I see strangers looking at her with disgust I can't help but stare back at them. If I'm feeling particularly sassy and/or annoyed I ask them "What, do you want a picture so you can stare some more?". Or I look at them up and down, up and down, until they turn their gaze away, embarassed. I've always been very good at the staring game, too! Haha!
My butch is very diplomatic and unless someone attacks her verbally or physically she just doesn't give the idiots the time of the day.
I wish I had some of her cool, and it drives me nuts how the same people who look at me in an accepting way look at her in a degrading way. She has asked me several times to let it go, and I understand that given her physical, mental and emotional strength she doesn't need me to defend her - hell, she's been through tougher times before we met - but the urge is strong.

Nice thread! My first thought was, "who among us hasn't been there at some point?" But then I realized I live in Texas, and maybe there are places that this is uncommon.

Just days out of the closet, I was having breakfast with a new butch friend at a popular busy diner in Austin which is pretty gay-friendly. As we were eating, I noticed a guy giving us the hate stare. He just stared, looking entirely pissed, twisted around in his seat and away from his food.

I was the person facing him, and I was kinda shocked. I didn't mention it to my friend at the time, because I didn't want to hurt his feelings or alarm him. Nothing bad came of it, but when I got home, I had this kind of freak out, wondering if this was the rest of my life now and wondering if I was strong enough to deal with it.

The next time I saw my friend, I told him about it. He laughed, shrugged it off, said it happened all the time, and that I should have told him about it.

After that, ill-advised or not, we made a kind of game of it. If one of us spotted a hate-starer, we would both turn and stare back and act like we were watching a tv show and basically mock and joke about them until they averted their eyes. That's probably not advisable, but I lost my fear of just the stare. And I began to feel more protective than anything - of any butch, not just that one friend.

I have found butches are usually more skilled at handling hate of that sort that I am (through direct experience), and that its best to learn their particular philosophy on how to handle things and follow their lead.

Not that I'm great at that, because my natural inclination is often to protect, to push back, to stand between, to call out, to physically intervene if necessary. But it's likely the best call in non-threatening cases of bigotry to just show respect and love to the person you are with and make bigots look like jerks all on their own.

I do have a friend who is male-identified, female-assigned-at-birth who was severely beaten a few years ago by some drunk guys, and the only thing that stopped the beating was his femme date's jumping on top of him and covering him with her body. She may have saved his life.

He told his story recently on a podcast. I've known him for over a decade and didn't know he went through this - it's a good podcast though and he goes on to talk about how he himself works to counteract bullies in his own unique way: http://static1.squarespace.com/stati...?download=true

I think there are times when our femininity and willingness to protect/intervene is very helpful, but especially in less threatening situations, it's best not to escalate. Escalation may be more likely to bring harm to the butch than to you.

So true! Thank you for pointing it out!

I am about to speak from a view different angles, so please don't get upset until you read all through this.

The great majority of us have experienced dangerous, and sometimes life threatening harassment over our lifetimes. Do we educate and change these people by laying down and taking it? Do we educate these people by standing up and showing we're ready to meet fire with fire, punch with punch? Do we educate these people by trying to speak calmly to them, to show them the errors of their ways? Or by just sticking to our convictions and living our life?

I believe the answer to my own question is, Yes. We help educate these people by all of the above.
And no. We don't achieve a damn thing by any of the above. In other words, you have to look at each situation and decide if the personal risk imminent is worth the POSSIBLE advancement.

Let's say that you did stand up to these punks and bullies. And if they were an "Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson" type (Matthew Shepard killers), you COULD bring national attention to a well needed situation. But at what cost? I'm sad to say that the Matthew Shepard situation did so much good to change the hearts of many Americans. I'm sad to think about the pain his family and friends experienced. (if you can, watch the documentary The Laramie Project). If this happened to you, your life would have had strong meaning to the world. But again I ask, at what personal cost.

And also, how many of our Brothers and Sisters DID stand up to bullies, showed their personal and physical strength, and died an anonymous and unknown (except to their friends and families) death, and debatably, unnecessary death. For a few years back in the 90's, a group of us from San Fran and L.A. would converge on Fresno for their pride parade to face the KKK. Yes, we would taunt them and send our best interracial lesbian couple to deep throat kiss in front of them. And then decided to stop. Here, WE were the bullies, protected by the police at the parade. But we had no idea what happened 4 blocks over when the KKK took off their robes and hoods, started to walk home angrily and ran into our gay friends. We then decided to continue going, but go with grace.

Ghandi and Martin Luther King were both doing so much Non Violent good for the world. And both assassinated. A different direction was taken by Malcolm X, Anwar Sadat, and such politicians as JFK, RFK, and Harvey Milk, yet all died by the bullet. So many more that I can't even start to list. All did so much good for the world and paid the highest cost. But if Archie Bunker was a real person, do you think all the arguing with him in the world would have changed his heart?

I am well aware that I don't experience the same as most of my butch brothers as I walk this earth, as I still strongly look female and can often 'pass' if I choose. But I do know how I would want my femme to respond if I was the target in this situation. To just ignore and not escalate. Allow me to handle my own situations. I am ready with my next step if my present step isn't working, but I am NOT ready if you step in and change the direction. If I'm being physically attacked and my femme has the physical ability to help, then do so at that point. If my femme has more cultural knowledge of a situation than I do, then do help at that point (and I don't just mean race. I have been in a hardcore biker community. The culture is different. I have had to help stronger people than me stay safe when they stepped wrong).

I'm rambling, as it's morning and I'm out of practice of responding on the threads. But I think what I'm trying to say is that it's a personal decision. Just don't come to the conclusion that there's ONE right answer. Do what is right for BOTH of you.

Protection
 

I too have faced hate and violence from men. During the 70's in Houston gay people were chased down and beat up for sport I think.

In the 70's my girlfriend and I were camping in Galveston when this guy decided he wanted her so he started climbing into our tent to take her. She was a small lady less than 5 feet tall and under 100 lbs. I pushed him out of the tent and "it was on", as he started hitting me I called for my buddy in the next tent to come help me but to my surprise my girlfriend came flying out of the tent and jumped in front of me. She started yelling at him so he backed down and left. I was very grateful that she protected me.

Many times in my life femmes have come to my rescue and I am always grateful for it. I will only fight if I have to in order to protect my loved ones. I always try to defuse a hostel situation before it gets violent. Thanks to all the femmes that protect butches.

Chad, it's awful that you and your friends had to experience this. But Yay to your gf! Yep, I would be very grateful also.

Especially now with all the hate going around, I have taken to carrying Pepper Spray at all times with me. I won't hesitate to use it that is for sure.

Thank you buddy, Femmes rock!

Very true. As a femme, I have never been beaten by asshole cops who didn't like "dykes". They can't ever "be sure" about me. My butch and countless others I know have. It's horrible.

I get looked at all the time by people and I just brush it off, there is no need for anymore violence in this world, so I avoid it and I have never had a femme protect me because I can protect myself.

Just my opinion.

What you say certainly makes sense Virago, but you seem to be coming from the perspective that our reactions are something we decide upon. Sometimes we do consciously decide, and sometimes we just react. I think there's merit in both paths. Of course it's often wiser to think it through, but not every situation is always best approached by measuring and thinking and pondering. Sometimes swift, decisive action works best. I agree with you that reacting rashly can sometimes be counterproductive, but there are times...

I walk in the world with the knowledge that fairness isn't always part of the equation, that sometimes dangerous and destructive things just happen to us, and that many things are simply out of our control. What that means to me is that sometimes I just have to take action and hope that I'll act the way I would like my friends to remember me. I guess I've faced a lot of mortality in my life. I don't stress about it much anymore.

So after reading through the posts here I had many thoughts and have taken some time to try and organize them so they come out in a coherent manner.

I think within our relationships we offer each other protection sometimes physical and others it comes in the form of emotional safety a shelter in the storm.

While I can offer some physical strength I'd not likely be a match for a man with intent to physically attack me or a butch I'm with, of course that's a broad generalization yet those are based in some truth. Certainly, adrenaline would kick in and provide a boast save fear doesn't paralyze me into being rooted in a spot forced to watch the horror unfolding in front of me. I could attempt to use my words to communicate just what I think of such inane behavior and I'd be quite rightful, I'm sure in some minds, to put any person physically or verbally attacking in their place. I'm inclined to believe either such response, in many situations not all, is not likely to ultimately serve us well.

I don't want to be one to spews back hate, anger and ugliness that I know is based in fear. (I'm inclined to believe their hate based behavior is also fear based, our brains are program to react with anxiety to the unknown as it allows us to then heighten attention/awareness so we may learn or assess the situation in some this goes awry usually because of some trauma history and they become dysregulated prone to angry outbursts) I imagine, too, that many butches would not want me verbally stepping in to fight a battle that honestly can never be won with hate or anger. I wonder if, in fact, to do so would actually do the opposite than the intent....to not protect but to wound to send the impress I think the butch as not able to handle it, to the come back (if they were so inclined), or to simply cope.

Perhaps where the "real" protection comes in is in the adoring looks, the hand held, the head upon the shoulder, the deferring to that is evident as you wait ever so slightly (perhaps hesitating only a breathe) for a door to be opened, a chair pulled back; as each of these are signs of acceptance rather than tolerance (and yes there is a clear difference perhaps thoughts for another thread) or seeing and loving/adoring/appreciating/desiring the energy, the presence, the essence that we see in the butch that the world either cannot see or does not understand. Maybe our protection comes in the shelter we provide as we seek shelter in their arms a safe place to come to at the end of a day a place where we no longer need to bring strength against the world that all too often treats femmes like just another female which sadly still seems to be about just the worst thing (no I don't believe it - take the context not just the words) you can be based on the discrimination, vulgarity and devaluing rampant as you read the paper, go about your job, take a glance at your pay check, watch the news or simply walk down the street.

We are at our very cores driven, pulled to each other and into wanting, desiring, appreciating that which the other offers....and I think that may be the protection we each need to face the word together. Maybe, in time, when that protection brings us each strength the rest of the world will change around us when in slow subtle ways we change it by our interactions....as we do in fact change each other's brain by merely interacting with each other....

so....let's let our love be the protection that we each offer....