I have PMed Medusa and feel after the strong warning given above I must be silent until it is all sorted out. I will get back to discuss with you Snow! I didn't want you to think I'm ignoring you...

Cyclopea -

Actually no, what you suggested is that you would have to "wade through lesbophobia" unless this was in a Lesbian zone.

I will remind you again that this entire website is a "Lesbian Zone" so the insinuation that "wimmin's" topics are only "safe" in a separate zone (with an insinuated "Free from Lesbophobia") is absolutely incendiary.

And just so we are super clear: Being called out on problematic posting is not "being singled out", that is called "being treated like every other poster on this site".

Any further posts regarding this issue need to happen in a private message so this thread can continue.

Admin

This is odd to say Mystic, I am certainly not going cause I am some kind of sheeple and I am doing what ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL the other people are doing.

I have never been on a cruise, so if I did have the money for one I would definitely pick one that caters to my needs and the persons needs I am going with.

NOT because my besties aren't going.

Not cool

Nope

Nada

Nein

Not in this lifetime -

Can't play with all my friends? Then you don't need my $$$

I only spend my $$ on truly inclusive venues.

Does this have to turn into yet another us vs. them issue. I know we're into a whole new week now and all.

I think we can all agree that it's fact, not conjecture, that Olivia is not welcoming to many in our b-f community. If some of us choose not to give them our money, it doesn't make us lesbophobic.

Knowing what you know , and a good chance of you not getting your money back , you would go ahead and book anyway :| Not sure this has anything to do with being a follower ....But you have money like that to burn , I say go for it ,but I wouldn't bother packing your bags :)

I have got to the point in My life that , if I or My butch brothers are not welcome somewhere , fuck em ! I will take My money and My brothers and go else where ! And if these idiots thought about what they where missing out on, they would see they could be making alot more money and meet some awesome folks that they choose to not associate with ...:sunglass:

Olivia's response to my inquiry on their trans policy
 

From:
"Olivia GuestServices" <GUESTSERVICES@OLIVIA.COM>
Add sender to Contacts

Hello -

Olivia strives to provide an all Lesbian environment but we have had MTF transgendered guests join us on our vacations. Although we do not discriminate, you will find that your presence is upsetting to some of our guests. Some will confront you directly asking "why are you on my Lesbian vacation?" I imagine it would be even harder for our guests to accept someone FTM.

I know this is discouraging, but it is important for you to understand because it disrupts the Olivia experience we work hard to provide for our guests. If you have any questions or need anything more please feel free to e-mail me at guestservices@olivia.com or call 800-631-6277, option 2.



Thank you,



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Jeri Umble
sr. director, customer care


olivia
434 brannan street
san francisco ca 94107

415.962.5700 tel
415.962-5713 fax

feel free
www.olivia.com

Which goes to say that is why we were left with our suit cases left on the dock while we tried to understand why we were not allowed on board... ~Shakes Head~
And then tell us that we could reschedule another time??? We were on vacation, we have paid vacation hours, we can't just show up back to work and say, well can't go right now, so I'm going to work now and can you let me have next month off?!!!
We went camping instead! And this was 8 years ago, and they still haven't changed... Sad, so sad...

Are there any inclusive LGBTIQ cruises? I know that Rosie's (ex? I don't keep up with celebrity gossip but I feel like I heard that somewhere) wife is the founder of one and I -think- I heard that one was inclusive - although it is for families.

If there was something like that I would be interested.

Oh, and add me to the "oh HELL naw" column on the subject of Olivia. I know where I'm not wanted.

I would be interested to hear about the cruise line Sweet. They do a lot of activism... building schools, fixing computers, etc... to the depressed countries they visit... That's a part of their philosophy of cruising...

Anyone know?

Here is their link:

http://discoversweet.com/

Who can travel with Sweet?
Sweet loves our allies in all shapes and flavors. So while our vacations are designed for lesbians, anyone who looks at what we do and thinks it looks like fun is welcome to join us.

Their FAQ

I would be interested to know if that's just talk or if they mean it, though. Like if someone who had actually been on one of their cruises could give us the skinny on things - that would be nice.

Wow. I never expected to see so many replies nor see what I saw.

I did book with Olivia and here is why...

My former spouse (who passed away) and I took a cruise together as our last trip. Cal was a TG butch and could easily pass for a guy if he wanted to.

We were treated with nothing but respect. We met some lovely people on the trip. Olivia went above and beyond to assist us since Cal was dying from cancer. Not one person was rude to us. Not one comment from either the Olivia staff or anyone on the cruise.

I knew at that time I wanted to take another trip with them and now I am.

I certainly didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. All I wondered was if anyone else here might be going. If someone is going feel free to PM me.

Have a good week,

MS

MS

I am glad you and yours had a great vacation, and that you have wonderful memories!

I hope you have a great time and you come back with more beautiful memories!

Happy Travels!

atlantis, aquafest and RSVPvacations all have cruises that cater to the Queer/Lesbian community.

We went on a Rosie Cruz to the Caribbean (r family vacations, now run by the ex, Kelly). Funny enough, we were by chance in a cabin beside another butch femme couple and their daughter. There were definitely singles and couples without kids too. We were told in casual conversation that R Family Vacations is more down-to-earth than Olivia (in talk of comparing between those who had been on both). I don't know specifically about their trans policy but the cruise had a very diverse feel to it. Some queer families brought grandparents, kinda touching to me! Also for that specific cruise, Rosie had impulsively invited the whole audience to go on the cruise we were on when she had been on the View. Off-air, the audience was told by Rosie's people that Rosie would pay for them to go on Rosie's cruise or, if they felt more comfortable, a "regular" Carnival cruise. So it was cool that the straight families that did go made that choice. Anyway, it's the only cruise I've ever been on so I can't compare it to other cruises, but it was rather magnificent.

Who's to say they would turn me away from going on the trip?

That's so cool!

I tell you - I love Rosie.

I never knew this, Jack, and feel strongly about protecting oceans and sea life. It should have been common sense but I really hadn't thought about it. Now that I read what you wrote and google and see just how damaging cruises are to the environment, no more cruises for me, that's for sure. Glad you posted this- I will share with others.

Now sounds like a good time for me to bitch about the weird screaming pipes in my building. Whenever I, or anybody else in the building, runs the water for more than about 90 seconds the pipes all screech for a good 5 minutes afterward.

Not your fault, obviously. You've never been here. But I'd like you to let me know if I am going to die a horrible death from screeching pipes (hey! anything is possible!) or if we should all collectively continue to ignore it.

You guys are just full of it :rofl:

Mystic,

I have read each and every comment on this thread, and from what I gather, I do not believe this has anything to do with a popularity contest.

It comes down to commonalities with people. Personally, I would not be friends with a Racist. They would not fit very well in my community and I would do what I could to educate, to inform them what this does to our global community when they speak this way. The same holds true in "our" community. If we support organizations that are "exclusive" and not "inclusive" then we are in fact perpetuating the same bigotry. If I allow people in my "world," who support such things, such as racist organizations or even organizations who are not supportive and inflammatory toward my community, then I am in fact perpetuating the same thing. I will however, offer my voice as a means to educate.

I do not know you personally, but most likely would not invite you into my inner circle. Not because you are not lovely, but because you support such organizations. I would not attend a party which served Coors beer - Even though Coors changed their policy, I still will not allow it in my house.

I also boycott the Michigan Womyns Music Festival - And I have no time for those that support an exclusive organization.

Julie

This is kinda ridiculous, to assume that people are posting their opinions so that all their friends follow like sheeple and not go on a vacation if that is what they wanted to do.

If (insert name) decided tomorrow that she was going on and Olivia Cruise, I would be like :|

I would more than likely talk to her about it, and our friendship would change since she is supporting a place I do not for it's policies. I don't know to what degree it would change but I am pretty positive that I would not just kick her to the curb without having some kind of dialogue.


Once again I find it odd that you are reading some subliminal message that is saying if pick a side or you are out the club.

Really odd.

:|


PS

Can someone PLEASE point out the phobia, inclusion/exclusion ism's comments?????? PLEASE

Right. The thread was hijacked by the horrible people who WERE discussing cruises.

Oh wait. What is being said is that it's only discussing if it shits glitter and sunshine.

Of course we want Mountain to have a good cruise, and it wasn't in the OP that it was shared what it meant to HER on a very PERSONAL level. Ironically, as a person with terminal cancer AND a spouse named Cal, I can totally say that if I were in her shoes I'd probably be doing exactly what she is doing.

Not liking Olivia Cruises or cruises in general that are not environmentally friendly does NOT mean that there are ill wishes towards the OP.

I swear.

I do understand that having a butch femme group event on a lesbian cruise is totally inappropriate because not all butch femme community members are lesbians.

For people going on vacations on an individual basis with their spouses, significant others or friends that are not lesbians they would choose a different type of vacation. I totally get that. Or you may be a lesbian who just doesn't want to be stuck on a ship with thousands of other lesbians. Or you don't like cruises for environmental or other reasons. I totally get that.

If lesbian transwomen are discriminated against I think that is wrong. They are lesbians and women too and of course should be included. I do support the need and desire for having women's only space. I do not support any organization that excludes transwomen from their definition of women's space.

I also think it's wrong for anyone to be treated rudely at the docks or anywhere else.

What I don't understand is people seem to be upset that Olivia Cruises is geared towards lesbians and that it isn't inclusive? I don't think it was set up so they could say x, y and z can't go. It was set up for lesbians to have vacations geared for them. There's nothing on their website talking about who can't go. It talks about being a lesbian owned travel business that sets up vacations for lesbians.

There are lots of vacation businesses and packages that are geared towards gay men. I have never been offended that they aren't geared for me. I am not interested in buying a vacation package to go on a cruise or other type of vacation geared towards gay men. I hope they have a great time.

Are people saying its wrong that all queers are not included? Why can't a travel business set up vacations aimed for lesbians? Or for gay men? Is there a different between Olivia Cruises and some travel business geared towards gay men? I genuinely am puzzled. If people wanted to have a butch femme vacation business I think that would be great and a queer vacation business for every single type of queer person would be great too. However, I don't think every single travel or other business needs to be geared towards every single type of queer person.

My other question is do people who are not lesbians really want to go on vacations geared towards lesbians?

I totally understand everyone can make their choices about where and who they want to vacation with and how they spend their money. I am not understanding why setting up vacations where lesbians are the target audience is wrong.

Newsflash: There are many, many LESBIANS who are partnered with transfolk.

Yes I am very well aware of that. I said that in my post.