I don't think anyone said la-la's ode was written by a man.
So, for fuck's sake, no- you are not reading this right!
;)
They are talking about some straight guy's craigslist ad that most of us haven't read. (And don't really care to).
Clear as mud?
:dance1:

That's what I get for skimming.

For fucks sake.

(it's the phrase of the day)

A couple butches opinions proves something about the way all butches think?

FYI, I read the ad to butches by the bio-male and was flattered... not interested but flattered none the less.

I didn't find it odd at all, it's not the first time I've run into guys who have a thing for butches... honestly the only thing I found odd was you're placing that article in the middle of a discussion about female butches, and perhaps your bee-lining in here to talk about it again.

But I totally believe to each their own... what you want to discuss really doesn't hold great interest for me... unless you make a sweeping generalization about what butches think.

We do not group think.

Peace,
Metro

The phrase of the day is "motorboating".

Oh shoot it's after midnight- ok you're right.
:byebye:

It's very valid. As valid as the responses that the original post (with the ad) received. For a number of people, it was not their cup of tea. Why would that be the issue here? Because it originated from a bio male? (assumed). They are not allowed to voice displeasure? It goes both ways. If there were any butches in that thread that had a positive response, they could have done so. And I believe one did respond in a positive manner. So let's not make this a hetero-homo sexual issue.

I could easily create and post an ode to bio men/transmen that says equally the same things, e.g., appreciating how I love that they could be pleasured by my cock and not feel any less male/manly. I would expect both negative and positive responses without labeling anyone with a phobia.

I could PM you the ad and would be interested in your response. I have had bio men at work tell me I look sharp for that particular day and I appreciate it. If one told me I have a great ass, not so much. But that's just me.

I do happen to have a great ass (so says my girl ;))

*snickers* ;)

I agree with Outlaw, we get to decide what we find complimentary or objectifying and what we are interested in talking about. If a man wants to pay me a compliment like hey nice haircut- sure that's nice. A long ode that waxes poetic- I am just simply not interested. Anyway I think it was lifted from somewhere. My apologies if they guy spent hours composing it for his ad. His "ode" might not be exactly the same as the one posted in this thread. Who's on first, lol.

What has bothered me was the continued insistence in 2 threads that butch women discuss it- coming from someone who doesn't id as a butch woman- and when it didn't appear anyone was interested in discussing it we are called transphobic and homophobic. The man posting the ad never said he was trans and I don't get where homophobia would come into play at all- he's male, we're female.

Like Kosmo said, if anyone does want to discuss it they are free to do so.

My Ode To Butches
 

You are strong of will, intelligent, and compassionate. You make mistakes and can admit them. You strive to understand, to think outside the box because you have been held prisoner in one for so long. You appreciate the struggles of women because you are one. You walk with head held high as you enter those realms non-accepting of what you look like, what you stand for, who you are. You are fluid, stable, soft, concrete.

You appreciate being noticed for your brains, your style, your team work, your ability to make it happen, to figure it out; and not just for your looks or your sexual prowess (as perceived or decreed by others).

You remember feeling different, but not knowing why. That you weren't the good little girl that didn't get dirty or the one that was supposed to show appreciation or thanks for a compliment based on your looks by boys, men that made you feel uncomfortable, because girls should appreciate it, be thankful for it. You said, fuck it.

You have made yourself who you are and you continue to grow.

You are a Butch.

My Ode to a Butch
 

What I love most about a butch is...

I love the dichotomy of a butch...
Something with seemingly contradictory qualities...
Your female body with that masculine strut.
Your yang balancing my yin.
Your hardness and your softness.
Your roughness with your gentleness.
Your making love to me with a cock while knowing every part of my body like your own.
Being in a woman's body and wearing men's clothing. And looking better than they do in them.
Your strong protective arms holding my hand that is smaller like yours.
The smell of your sweat and testosterone from working on my car for me. Then smelling freshly showered cooking your favorite recipe for us.
Playing pool with your friends for the afternoon and that evening... helping me paint my toenails and choosing me a color knowing the importance of it matching my lipstick.
Wanting to watch monday night football and not being afraid to cry when your team looses. LOL
Comfortable only in your boots. Yet also willing to wear a pair of my sandals in a pinch< that fit you perfectly> to run out to the store to get me my favorite icecream.
You often have a selective memory yet you remember my favorite icecream, flowers, and our anniversary a month before it even comes up.
The way you say to me "honey I know just what your going through" once a month and truly do.
The way you willingly will allow me to test a perfume on you I want to smell in a store... yet I ran out of room on my own body to still smell anything.
The way you let me hold a pair of earrings or a purse or an outfit up to you to see what it will look like on me and men walking by us looking at you and thinking "poor guy."
The way you ignore any whispers or laughter at us together as your eyes glance at his crotch and you laugh back thinking "at least I get to choose my size"
The way men don't look twice at us while you pull out my chair for me and open doors.
The way you actually take as long or longer then me to get ready to go out sometimes
and I am the one saying "honey you look fine."
The way you respect your part of our closet...all 12 hangers.
I love a butch for all of this and so much more...
But what I love the most about you...Is your like having the best of both genders all in one package<g> Emotionally, mentally, and physically I can relate to you.
And I never have to remind you to put down the toilet seat!

Written by me
From my heart.

Here's my favorite "Ode to..."
 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZt5Q-u4crc"]YouTube- Bobbie Gentry - Ode To Billy Joe[/ame]

You older folks, remember this song was out WAY back (late 60's?) and everyone loved it, and tried to speculate what is what about...? "AHHH! Abortion, they threw the baby off the bridge", "no it was murder and a dead guy's body they tossed off the bridge", etc...

All I gave a damn about what this woman named "BOBBIE GENTRY" singing this song. (I may or may NOT have had a tiny crush on her for that reason alone!)

Anyway, (I digress!) then the movie came out around mid-70's (?) and this beautiful male actor Robbie Benson played Billie Joe. It was heart wrenching for many of us to watch. An old "bible belt" region, him possibly being a queer :overreaction: - how difficult and painful that was to be able to cope with the realities of his life and trauma at that time - and how many of us could RELATE to it (especially who grew up a tad more rurally), as queer was not so out then - NOT even in the movies. Sad to think of it now even. Ouch. :watereyes:

AHH, BUT, hell - here I am reminded that we aren't much further off between the queers and the straights - and all 'dat... just a couple days before the year 2010! We kill each other, don't we? (Metaphorically [comedically] speaking here, not literally - of course.)

PEACE
WILDCAT

:heartbeat:

*Where's "la la"? I smell a sabotage... little bugger! :gimmehug: Anyway, I think folks are missing the point of the start of this thread. (I'm too shy to spell out my opinion - once again.) But, discussion is good - yes (?) Everyone feeling the growing pains yet? :snowballfight:

**Nice tribute FA. What about us with very large hands and big feet? That makes things more complicated regarding the footwear thingy. Just sayin'. I've never measured my hands, why let me do so know! Oh, a hard 7 3/4". That's not TOO bad. (I really thought they'd be BIGGER.) Size 12 shoes. I love that I don't need a tape rule to measure off rooms, I just walk 'em off!

***GOOD day all!

It was just a metaphor WILDCAT. I realize not every butch has small hands and feet lol. Or that all femmes do as well for that matter.:ballngag:

Now I hope you know I was only "teasing"! Nothing "ouchy" there!! Just being silly.

I love big hands. (Oh, I spelled now, "know"... as in measure my hands "NOW" - I meant, in that post - oops.)

Ever notice the size of Vanessa Redgrave's hands?! Woo-hooo!! Big and strong, but so is she!


:flyaway:

Yeah if that was the case (butches with small hands/feet) I wouldnt fit the mold. I'm a bit simian like. Long legs long arms big hands and feet..but at least Im not hairy ;)

Hi Metro,

Thanks for sharing your opinion about the craigslist ad. I'm not here to discuss that ad. And I already explained my intent there, then. I made an observation about the different reaction this ode got. I never said 'all' butches although I can recall quite clearly that *most* butches responded negatively, one or two with outright hostility. I'm also not the only one who noticed and commented. So unless you're speaking to me as a moderator when you're accusing me of 'beelining' here to discuss 'it' again (read: starting trouble), kindly refrain.

Carry on.

Bobbie Gentry was hott. Did you hear that there's supposedly a master recording of the song that contains additional lyrics that explain the central mystery of the song? Of course, that mystery is part of what makes it so great.

If one responds so negatively to the idea that a (bio)man may have posted an ode to butches, or that there are straight men who find butch women attractive, then I posit that one may be engaging in a little reverse 'gay panic-icity.' I'm not saying you'd kill a man over it, but those same feelings of revulsion combined with hostility are ones that can clearly lead to unpleasant places.

Like the Tallahatchie Bridge, with a mysterious bundle in your arms.

Nobody's panicked Bob. A trans man posted a link to a Craigslist ad allegedly writtten by a man in a Female Identified Butch thread and asked us what we thought. Several butches answered. Now here we are in another thread talking about again.

Personally my life doesn't revolve around men. I don't care if they are attracted to me or what they think of my masculinity. I'm neither flattered nor validated.

By the way, what are the chances of someone genuinely waxing poetic about Butch Women on either Yahoo Answers or Craigslist? Gentle readers I believe the genuine author of our beloved Ode we must affectionately refer to as Anon. The others are most likely cut and paste jobs with a few edits.

Well then talk about something else?

And just because a piece of text is found on Yahoo Answers or craigslist does not mean it originated there, as is evidenced by their appearance here, on this site.

i sense panic.

We agree!!!

I feel annoyed.

by the threat of a male among us? by sexuality that differs from your own?

No by people telling butch women how we feel and trying to dictate what we talk about.

Good question!
Let me just simplify and replace the word testosterone with pheneromes. Edited to add: I could also use "the masculine scent of your <add any mens cologne you like here.> "
No worries your not nitpicking at all!

I'm amused.

I was wondering if this thread is going to get back to what I preceived to be the original topic?

Call me anal but derailing can be annoying

I don't fear your opinion Bob. I am annoyed. Happy you are amused. Have a nice day.

I find it interesting that some butches are totally *revolted*, dare I say threatened, by a man finding them attractive but on the other hand have absolutely no issue with objectifying a straight female, who would probably be *revolted* by some butch finding them attractive.

ETA: Love me some butch boobs!

I haven't seen any butches objectifying straight females in this thread, and I haven't seen any butches say or express that they are revolted by a man potentially finding them attractive.

I didn't say in this thread (about objectifying straight women). And I have seen several posts in this thread about how some butches feel about a MAN finding them attractive.

Hi Hudson,

Before your first post in this thread, there were only two direct comments on the subject matter of the O.P. Both positive. Then posts were questioning the origin and crediting sources. I noticed a similarity to the OP and a craigs list ad that you posted a link to in another butch thread, then it was on.

If you didn't want to discuss that ad, then why bring it up as a comparison in the first place? How can you not want to discuss it, but still use it as a reference to question butch reaction which is lately described as perceived outrage, male phobia, and gay-panic. WTF?

What is it you want butches to say?

What more can be said? How 'bout we place both 'ode's in a thread and we can all just vote which one we feel is validating? But I think only Butches can vote since both odes were directed ONLY towards them.

I was one that had a hostile reaction to the ad. So what? That hardly makes me phobic of bio male attention. I found most of it objectifying and insulting:

I love butch boobs, because they are such a prize,
alternatively hated and ignored by their owners.

I really didn't know that butches both hated and ignored their boobs? Huh, go figure.

I didn't like the statement in the ad and I still don't like it in this thread's OP, but I get that this is an ode to butches and the flavor of each ode will vary.

So I guess I'm really male phobic and femme phobic.

Fuck, I'm gay-panicking now!!!

I'm wondering if and how antagonistic CRAP serves any good purposes here.

I'm thinking some folks are mean spirited in this walk of life.

Bully, unbelievable, eh?

I wish folks would be a bit more respectful here. Seriously. Don't we get enough crap out in the "real" world? And the defensiveness is really not warranted, but... folks do show their "hand of sorts" by remaining or continuing on such a path.

NOT CLEAR here? Well, just take what you can use - and leave the rest then. I'm not Judge Judy...

Folks are seemingly NOT writing very kindly here. We generally know where our own hearts are, yes?
__

I think I'm in a loving space myself, but not feeling too much of it here. So, I'm going to run my errands now. SMILE

And I'm not in any defending myself space, for certain. (And I don't think it's nice really of anyone to write or infer such things. Unless you want to quote maybe specific (?)

I'm certainly not feeling "panicked"... (?)
__

There is a difference from being hurt, annoyed, defensive, defendING, rude, disrespectful, instigative and truly genuine/concerned/civil/productive... CONstructive, etc. And on and on.

Plug it in where it fits... if you wish. I have, for myself and I'm quite clear with myself where I am at right now. (Realizing everyone's perceptions and realities are their own of course.)

Have to good day all respectful, kind and considerate folks. Anyone confused, good luck! (Little hug here from me!!)

WC


*I'm starting to think I'm on the wrong site here. Anyone else? Have the aliens landed?

ETA: Oh, much has been written since I began this. Hope it still fits in with the theme in any helpful or interesting way... Have a good day now, ya'll! Really.

When one comes into a butch thread and asks a question regarding bio male attraction to butches and if it validates a butch, then HELLA YES there's going to be reactions.

Just as femmes would be expected to give their opinions on a post by a butch in a thread for straight females, femmes, that to the straight females/femmes, feels/is objectifying or condescending????? I may know something of this, by the way.

Why is this so hard to understand, people?

P.S. MizzSabra, you might want to check out motorboarding ;)

Hypocritical at best that some people are offended by something done or said to them and then turn around and do the same to someone else.

I'm not validated by anyone but ME. If I relied on others for validation...well, then I'd just be insecure.

Well Mizz Sabra I certainly don't see anyone expressing any revulsion. We are interpreting things much differently.

And?

If I would say I don't find any men interested in me TOO INTERESTING... that doesn't mean I would feel "revolted" if they were. I'm as queer as a seven dollar bill. Why would I have to coddle that sentiment - especially HERE on this site? And to please whom? And that should be understood, not "offensive". That is a bit strong to infer ("revolted"), don't you think? And not the way I am at all anyway. (And sorry if someone said that and I missed it.)

Actually, it happens to me sometimes with men around here in my area - and I don't feel anything derrogatory about it. (Well, unless they were sexually inappropriate or disrespectful!) I however, might amuse myself that it surely must be they're "closet queers" as I don't have much "out there" with my yin side - well, that I think anyway. But, I am who I am. So, who knows? That is my caring, humorous side though "thinking that must be a queer side" of a man - to be attracted to ME! Smile.

I think straight men are attracted to straight men. Straight women to women... It happens. And all kinds of variations... (?) So?

And this does feel like a derail now, whoever wrote that. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Seems like folks are misreading a lot of things here though, and there is much confusion for this.

Later!

Wildcat

Sorry Kosmo, but the only people I see keeping that convo alive are the butches.

This (not you, Kosmo, but the overall reaction) reminds me of those "(Ewww) I'm not a lesbian and I don't date them because (ewww) I don't have 'lesbian sex' and ugh, I just don't relate to/get that/welcome that" where identities seem to hinge upon stating over and over what one is not (as with homophobia). I never find it necessary to define myself by expressing my repulsion at the attention or attraction of another.

And they should be called on it, but I don't see that happening here. Any more than a straight male being hypocritical for not finding the attraction of a gay male validating or flattering and being free to voice it. It's about personal preferences. Why must I feel thankful for something I find objectifying?

It's already been noted that there were positive responses from butches. So, now if we all don't step in that line to give thanks, we are hypocritical? Like I said, if someone says something hypocritical, they should be called on it. If a straight women is displeased with butch flattery, then she needs to call it out. If she feels that the butch is being hypocritical by not also receiving bio male flattery, she can call that out too (I guess). As I would then expect her to call a straight male out on the same thing.

Not directed at you, MizzSabra, but this is turning into a discussion that is going well beyond what I have experienced in my lifetime. I leave it to all the experts on validation, objectification and butch phobias and hypocrisies.

I need a shower. My sweat glands are coming close to knocking myself out.

Now my words I choose are being monitored for correct usage according to you? I think not.

I have encountered butches who are totally offended/revolted/threatened when a man finds them attractive, but turn around and will say "Ooooh, that Angelina Jolie/Sarah Palin/Jessica Simpson/Britney Spears/blah blah blah, now I would fuck the living daylights out of her." Hypocritical much?

Later!

My ode to butches: Be who you are, be authentic. You don't even have to work on my car or fix my plumbing. That tie? Go ahead and wear it, if you are so inclined. And yeah, show me some butch cleavage once in awhile.