I am femme and you a not want my opinion but...

I don't jump into see and I don't like casual sex. I won't bring up the discussion of exclusiveness an
but I will respond if asked.

I don't date younger butches, I date butches close to my age or a bit older.

I did have a butch think that we were "exclusive". It was awkward. She didn't have my phone number or my email or my address... but she felt like we were a couple.

I don't think it is a butch thing or a femme thing, I think it is a person thing.

I probably won't date anyone if I am interested in someone but if you assume we are exclusive without talking about it, we have a problem.

I guess what I am saying is.... don't expect anything from me unless you discuss it with me. It is when you assume that we have a problem.

I am honest and I am fiercely loyal but, before you get that loyalty - you have to ask first.

Cupcake, I’m sorry that worked out that way for you. I think you bring up a really good point though and it’s something I’ve been learning later in life. Not all femmes dig romance. :brightbulb: :doh:

This is something that was trained into me from my very beginning. Every movie, show, book on etiquette, OS mentorship, you name it; it was drilled into me as a default. That if I just showed up with a bunch of flowers, hold your hand and buy you ice cream in the park ... That I’d be doing something right and have a crack at screwing up something else.

I’ve learned that romance is a spectrum just like everything else and that part of learning about someone new is to figure out this bit too. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only older butch that has that wired up wrong. I still love to do the OS rituals, but I can now see that not all will appreciate it and it’s not personal, just a different view.

Hard to believe that not everyone loves romance right? I now make it a point to ask if she likes romance because it's just something I do a lot without thinking about it. I think if someone doesn't want romance, they are not for me. It's hard to retrain yourself into not doing things especially when I get a lot of pleasure from being romantic.

Looking at it from cupcake's point of view from her words on this thread, I think that sometimes right away, things can get hidden behind the blanket of romance, meaning you can get caught up in it all and maybe not really see what is in front of you. So not that you can't be romantic but save the romance for later when you are trusting each other more and know each other better?

Who knows. All I really do know is that getting to know me is getting to know my romantic side and it tends to come out right away.

But the romance has to come from the right place. I have am ex that spent hundreds of dollars on flowers every single week, left gifts at my housr, would call stores that she knew I would be at and bought stuff fore in advance....... BUT.... she turned out to be a psycho. Sometimes people try too hard so that their "other" side doesn't show....... right away.

Oh I do like romance, kelt. But not at first. I think it's too personal and intimate from someone I don't know. It scares me. It's like someone breathing in my face and asking all about my feeeeeeelings if I don't know them.

I actually am old fashioned once I am in a relationship. In ways that are very... Particular.

However, I'm just a very emotionally reserved person when it comes to deeper feelings and certain intimacies. I can verbally spill my guts about who I am, all my history and I'm not a private person about details of my life, but you want to know my deeper feelings?

Get to know me first. Be my friend. Show me you can be my friend before you can be my lover.

This gives me confidence that if something needs discussing, or something happens, you can put certain romantic feelings aside and treat me like a cherished friend first. To me, that is the most trusted thing anyone can do for me. And I often put my feelings of jealousy, ego, hurt, pissy snit aside to speak to a partner as a *friend* first, once I trust them.

I have friendships that have lasted for 32 years. None of my relationships have. So Given that my friendships are the most valuable thing I know of, when a partner that treats me like a friend first, then they have my trust. Once I know that they see me as a valuable friend and person first, *then* I like all the romance. Because then I know them well enough for that level of intimacy.

But I can also find a supermarket sandwich in a carpark the rain very romantic if I'm with the right person. I can think of a very romantic afternoon spent laughing in her car with tesco tuna fish sandwiches, sitting in a car park with the rain leaking in the back. There doesn't need to be flowers and chocolates in that memory. It still makes me smile.

I'm not really a flowers and chocolate girl romance girl. I'm a science museum and divey pub romance girl. Everyone has different ideas about what romance is. :)

Mine just happens to be more geek than traditional princess.

Bouncing off Kelt
 

Romantic gestures are nice, and a way to show appreciation, love, etc.. It's when those gestures or "love tasks" become a way to want to get all weird and proprietary.. Also, (sometimes and this is where I think folks get all wigged out) Femmes want to be the one's leading the romance or want to be able to express romantic gestures which are for some reason only assigned to butch/masculine/Top/Boss people....

Also, like you stated someone's view of romance is hearts and flowers, where as for others it can be museums and fuck fests.... When things don't stay "binary" is when I feel that people get all oogy and weird, and then somehow someone ends up being uncomfortable...


I am hoping I can communicate what I am muddling in my mind, it's been a while since I have had to type out my thoughts...

I'm trying to think about what I consider "romance."

I think the romantic gestures that really get to me are quiet and thoughtful, not big and splashy.

When I was in college, on a very cold night, my lover got out of bed and put these big fuzzy red socks on my feet. I was swooning.

Of course it has to come from the right place. I can tell you romance isn't about buying people things all the time. Isn't that more of trying to buy someone's affection? That would be a red flag for me right away I think but that's just me. I would rather someone be creative than buy me things all the time. Yes, I like to be romanced as well.

It's up to the two people involved to take the time to get to know each other. No one's other side is going to show right away, which is what I think one of the points of this thread is. Hell, sometimes someone's true side doesn't show up for a long time!

I completely agree with you. I was stupid. I know that now.

Romantic gestures is not about stuff. It is about thinking about what the other person needs/wants and getting it done.

Please don't say that you were stupid. It's easy to get caught up in the moments like you described. A lot of crave attention and it comes in many forms. Some people express love differently. As I mentioned in an earlier post euphoria can be a bitch! We all make mistakes. It's what we do with them after we realized that we made them that counts.

Romance to me: documentary films with home made pizza. Having them cook me a dinner they like to cook for themselves. Going to the store for me. Taking me to a museum. Sitting in bed on a Sunday and drinking tea and playing cards and laughing and being sarcastic. Buying me a kinder egg. Having a pic nic at my local park and looking at magazines together. Making something stupid and crafty together and making jokes. Swapping goofy pictures of each other grafted into things. Making each other e-books with funny stories and pictures. Going on a drive to find abandoned barns or factories and walk through them. Buying me my favourite gin and strawberries and playing a rediculous board game. Having them climb a tree for me to get me a flower. Showing me their favourite books or journals and telling me why. Talking to me for hours, late at night. :)

I think understanding that people have different ideas about what is intimate and what is romantic (like the five love languages test, for example) is a good thing. I like people who like touch and quality time, because I'm good at giving that. I love getting acts of service the most. So fixing my bike will be seen as far more swoony and romantic than a gift or a love poem.

But that's also what dating is for, right? Finding these things out to see if you are suited for a relationship!

Kinda why I like taking things slow in the beginning, to find these things out....!

I hate romance. Always have. It leaves me flat, and then I feel guilty. I endure romantic gestures, I guess. I do like pizza and documentary films though.

I read this thread and realized how much I do not want a relationship at this point in my life. I wonder if I ever will again.

I am truly grateful for the friends and beloved ex's in my life who fit me like an old glove. If I didn't have them, I'd be alone. I seriously could not go through all that right now. I love being single. I love home-ownership (new to me). I love the freedom of my own time and my own space.

To answer a question

A kinder egg is a chocolate egg with a toy inside that has to be built. I LOVE them!!
I forgot that the U.S. Banned them. So many of you won't know what one is.

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/fil...405_hires2.jpg

Princess belle - it was originally thread to ask about how butches deal with dating differences in the beginning of things. Some things can seem on the surface as insurmountable, but I know from experience that if I'm actually really interested in getting to know someone, I'm willing to *try* to work around some things if I can. I think some people are worth the effort.

It's turned into ask everyone how they deal with differences in dating at the beginning. Which is great.

Dapper had a hypothesis. Not sure how that's working out, but yet to be seen.

So far the differences that can throw people are:

When to be monogamous
When to be romantic
What is romantic
How/when to have discussions about the above
What does dating mean

No, I was an idiot. I really believed, at the time, that she just wanted me that much. She wanted the idea of me and never really wanted "me". It wasn't euphoria, I just thought that she really loved me. And, when you get into something like that, the "obsession" doesn't go away easil tty. I am still getting calls, emails, etc....

I think the last few posts pretty much sum up what I was getting at with romance. It's a spectrum from zero to sixty.

If I showed up with flowers I'd...

1. scare off Cupcake

2. piss off Martina

3. get a date with Sleepy :blink:

When what I'd really be meaning is; I'm showing interest and wanting to make a good impression. (NOT asking for sex or proposing marriage though)

If I'm head over heels I'll fix your car, because like the socks in the night, it's how I show genuine caring.

Princessbelle is right that communication is key because there are so many ways to get things wrong; or right but you just don't know it.

Fair enough, kelt - I personally would like someone to show interest by talking to me, telling me stories from their life and making me laugh. And showing interest in my stories. Flowers, to me, on a first date... Trying too hard? Making a formal statement that kind of makes me uncomfortable? I would like to think that before the first date we've had a couple pre-dates (just going for coffee or a beer and nachos) and talking. And perhaps we've had a couple phone calls and email exchanges before a first date. By then, I would like to think, the person has some idea that

A) I'm quite informal and too much formality makes me uncomfortable and stiff and I kind of feel like I'm playing a role rather than being a person. I'd like to think that flowers aren't nessecary to impress me or show interest, and taking me to a fancy restaurant where I can't laugh loud or show you pictures of hilarious dildos on my phone will make me feel out of place.

B) that you feel comfortable taking me to a pub with a good burger, a quiet corner and we talk and laugh for a few hours. Maybe you have bought me a little leggo kit instead of flowers and we can build it at the table. Perhaps we change to go to a different late pub after the dinner and make fun of people's shoes. I'm dressed up nicely.

I like a LOT of conversation and sharing of opinions and stories, so generally people have a pretty good idea of a first date, or they allow me to choose the place. Which I rather like. The second date they usually give me an idea or choice of a couple of things and I pick one. Again it will be informal and a place we can talk. I'm all about the talking. That way we can find out a lot about these things.

I generally don't do "activities" together as in going to the theatre or something until after we've had sex at least once.

But I'll have told someone that too. I come with very open and very straight forwardly stated instructions and I have an excellent customer service centre that fields enquires in great detail. I also come with a sheet of colourful diagrams for assembly.

53 year old married femme

I still remember what it feels like to date, even though we have been together since 2002, because i left my kasey back in 2005 for around a year and dated. I was as someone mentioned, still wired for monogamy and jumped from one "committed relationship" to another (approx 3) during that period of 1 year.

I was not ready to be monogamous again, and had i REALLY dated as had been my practice before i married, i probably would not have jumped back into my marriage. So, possibly that covers some butches and femmes alike, who date too quickly once broken up from long-term relationships? Maybe for some it is a desperate attempt to return to "normal"? To be part of an us?

Before i met kasey i had been out of my hetro-sexual marriage for 5 years, and dated several people at a time, getting to know them and seeing if we were compatible. Sometimes sex, sometimes not...but nothing committed unless we both felt ourselves moving in that direction.

I do know one thing after all of these years...if i am ever single again, i will take some me time first, before i ever consider dating anyone. I would want to do it whole, and ready to be a great partner someday.

I hope that makes sense?

Yeah, I'm not big on romance, either. It makes me itchy. When someone brings flowers, especially early in the dating relationship, I sometimes wonder if they're trying to buy me. If I don't wonder about that, I end up feeling nervous that they're too invested too quickly. It's easy to scare me off.

I love the Legos idea! That's a great way to be silly and get to know each other. I agree that it's important to talk before going on a first date especially if I'm picking the place we go. Wouldn't want to bring her to a seafood restaurant if she hates seafood or bring her chocolate if she is allergic.

I'm curious about the no "activities" until after sex? What's that about if you don't mind sharing? Is that a more formal date?

I was raised with manners and common sense. I mean that's just rude to let a door slam in someone's face so I will extent an open door or hold one open to let someone pass through , help on with coats, help or pull out a chair for someone to get into, stuff like that. After reading these posts, I see that might offend some folks?

Perhaps "romance" and "romantic gestures" are a bit like the rapidly dying arts of giving and receiving compliments, increasingly fraught with awkwardness and suspicion. Personally, I'd rather just gratefully enjoy the moment and (maybe) worry about what you really had in mind, later.

Also, Kelt said:

If I showed up with flowers I'd...

1. scare off Cupcake

2. piss off Martina

3. get a date with Sleepy

...which cracked me up.

All of these posts lend to my philosophy in some way.

For me, it's archery. You shoot your arrow and I shoot my arrow and sometimes they wind up in the same circle and sometimes they wind up on separate targets altogether.

Pinkie Pie is correct: communication is key. Not everything can be worked out. Sometimes it just isn't going to happen. But most things can be worked out with time and patience and open and honest communication.

I am a 40 year old femme. I am stone. I am a girl. I am multi-faceted and each part of me offers a new angle to the same perspective.

I've dabbled in poly and it's not for me. I was the one brought in and I was the one that developed a weird jealous attachment thing so I was the one to withdraw myself from the relationship. I felt that Nemo "Mine!" thing and it was inappropriate given the situation. It was best for all involved for me to step back and I learned a very important lesson. It's also part of why I tread carefully when it comes to trusting someone when they are dating others.

I personally have an abundance of trust issues and even though I know my intentions when I say I want to have free reign without guilt when dating others I don't what a potential partner's intentions might be. Again, this is where time and patience and communication would come into play.

I'm somewhere between the kiddie pool and the riptide....maybe around the 4 ft mark in a standard backyard pool....when it comes to kink but I also require someone who at least has an interest in it and a base knowledge of it. When partnered with someone who don't have either, I feel small and like I am being emotionally restricted. I will not tolerate emotional suffocation, even if it's unintentional.

So, to get back to the core topic....I consider dating to be when people go on dates. Dating does not automatically mean monogamy. I do not expect someone I just started dating to be monogamous with me. It soothes my ego and some health concerns but it's not expected.

I prefer the option of us being free to date others until we.....as a unit....decide to become monogamous. There are many factors that would come into play before that could/would happen. There are levels of trust that must be reached and there are triggers/issues/et cetera that must be brought out of the shadows and dusted off.

At this point in my life, I would like to have someone important. Someone to call when I bump my head. Someone to put on the forms as an emergency contact.

BUT

I cannot live with someone. Nope. Not going to happen. Like cupcake, I'd be fine with being with someone who lives in the same building....preferably on a different floor and not directly above or below me....or maybe on each side of a duplex. I am crazy rabid possessive of my space. I've continually had my personal space torn up/dispersed/sold/emptied/moved/etc ALL OF MY LIFE. Those issues are far too deep-seated to shrink wrap now and are NOT going to change.

I think that I would enjoy drawing out the process more now. Be it courting or dating or romancing or separately cohabitating, I am not in the rush that I was before. I've taken time for myself and feel that I've pulled myself farther from the serial monogamist wormhole that I've found myself sucked into time after time.

Speaking of romance and old school type behaviors, it's not so bad. Not when it's done on the subtle side of things or even nonchalantly and naturally. When it's done with a flourish, as in "look what I just did for YOU!", it's bullshit and it smells like it. I'm majorly put off with most grand gestures.

I'm all about the details. Tell me all of your stories. The stupid, the adorkable, the sad and forlorn....everything. I want it all.

The Mother Monster said it best:

I want your ugly
I want your disease
I want your everything
As long as it's free
I want your love
Love, love, love I want your love

I want to discuss everything that would affect the outcome of the relationship fairly soon. The boundaries...sexual, physical, emotional...the triggers....the shadow issues. The likes/dislikes....what does your day off look like....what is your typical energy level....what makes you tick....what ticks you off....et cetera.

The more I know about you, the safer I can feel around you. The safer I feel, the more open I can be. The more open I am, the more trust you earn. The more trust you earn, the more vulnerable I am. It's a frightening thing to expose yourself and all of your quirks to one another.

Actually, at this moment, semi-casual sex doesn't sound so bad.

Oy.

:blink:

I am still laughing about this as if it were that easy...

For me, nope wouldn't offend me. I like that. I don't like someone dressed in a suit, with flowers, calling me ma'am, taking me to a really expensive place, and being really formal type old school.

Like I personally have said, I am old fashioned. But I am also not formal. I feel really awkward putting the things I feel old fashioned about on a board because to me the are quiet, personal things between me and one other person. But carrying my bags is lovely, without making a fuss about it, opening my door, helping me with a coat, paying for a dinner or a night out... I don't really won't to say too much more. That's kind of between me and the other person and it feels really private.

I think things that feel ... They are doing it because I'm a femme, rather than because I'm me and special, feels very... Insert cardboard cut of of femme and insert formula ritual thing here... I'd prefer we get a hang of each other and have personal things for us. Not because I'm a femme and that's what you do for femmes. It feels really ... Insert tab a into slot b show romance in way you show femmes romance. I just feels overly intimate in a fake way. Perhaps more like what gemme is talking about.

Kind of like when servers in a restaurant get cloy (Overly Ingratiating or sentimental) ? I hate an excess of sentiment upfront. It makes me really uncomfortable. I guess I like humour and playfulness and understatement.

Putting it on paper, typing into a post looks hopelessly picky. But in reality it's not. Ive actually been told I'm really easy to talk to and extremely easy company - when someone isn't trying hard to impress me and listens to me instead. And me them.

I want to expand on the compliment factor because I'm a very curious person in general. Are femmes suspicious when a butch gives them compliment? I mean do you think a butch has an ultra motive if they do or are you more inclined to just accept the compliment at face value? The way I've always looked upon compliments are they cost nothing to give, and can make a person's whole day!

Yeah, I guess so. Maybe I'm just ass backwards? I kind of prefer

Informal, friendly, relaxed hanging out > informal, dating that doesn't cost much > sex, hanging out informally, learning more > sex sex and more sex > romantic stuff and activities > more sex > etc etc etc maybe meeting some friends of each others > decision for exclusivity and thus a relationship to see how it works > meeting parents and taking a vacation together > hey this really works, I even cleaned out a drawer for you to put some socks in :) and feel free to keep some shirts here.

That's kinda how it goes in my universe.

It depends on your "love language" thing. Right? I get very uncomfortable with compliments given certain ways. But then I'm not a "words of affirmation" type.

Like for instance, I'm going to be far more endeared and swoony over someone saying "hey gimpy, get your hot arse in the car so I can drive you home, you are giving me a public boner with that slutty limp" with a big grin when I've injured my foot than. "Forsooth, my goddess, your pearlescent toes are wilting and causing the Angels to weep. May I please take your divine splendour home in my humble and unworthy wagon?"

I also prefer "mouthy tart" to "my beauteous wonder of feminine light"

But that's also because I prefer humour and endearment. I feel someone gets me and really likes me and feels comfortable with me.

Hmmm
 

Depends on how it's given and timing.. Sometimes timing is very important, I get complimenting someone you find attractive or whatever it is you are feeling, that's different than super imposing some weird machismo oh look I am taking time out of my life to let validate you..

That right there, makes me want to throat punch someone, very few people have good game, smoothness or je ne sais qua..

Sometimes people get pissy when you don't acknowledge a what they deem a compliment, it's really hard to explain and I am unsure if this only happens to feminine.female identified folk...

I'm a 42 year old femme paired with an almost-59 year old butch (17 year age difference). We've been together 10 years, have lived together in small quarters almost that long, and are very happy together. When we first met at a mutual friend's birthday party, we had immediate lust. In two weeks BB was saying hy was in love with me. That sent me into a panic and I broke up repeatedly and dated other people. BB also ultimately wanted monogamy, and I didn't know if that would work for me. BB got sick of the drama from me and decided to stop all contact with me. This was helpful as it gave me time to think about what I wanted over the course of months. I decided that I did want a relationship with BB and announced that I was ready for a real commitment with an eye towards the long-term. BB was like (paraphrasing), "My friends think you're a crazy bitch, but what the hell, you're cute, and I'm still in love with you so let's go for it." I lived up to my promise and both of us feel that all's well that ends well.

BB said hy was totally into monogamy and private kink. I was more into poly and swing kink. BB said that it was fine if we wanted to come up with some kind of compromise, that hy didn't want to stifle my identity and that we could find some kind of arrangement that both of us were comfortable with. Ultimately I just decided to go with the monogamy because it seemed like such a drag to have to process which would have been necessary if we wanted to go with these two different ways of life. It felt like it would be like raising a kid with two different religions, a little complicated and possibly creating a distance between us. The one thing I did negotiate was that I didn't want to drop my flirtatious personality, and that was agreed upon.

We both struggled with how to romance each other. Early on BB bought me some very traditional expensive pieces of jewelry, and it made me very uncomfortable. Besides my HK engagement ring, I didn't want what reminds me of the trappings of traditional cis-het romance. I hate flowers. When you get flowers, you suddenly have work to do (water, a vase, petals dropping as they rot). I don't eat chocolate, and everyone gets me chocolate. It's an easy gift that people give all the time. At least chocolate is easy to regift! I also struggled with how to romance BB. For hys birthday I used to get expensive concert tickets and weekends away for us that I couldn't afford. It was very stressful for me. I didn't share these feelings, and I felt it was what I should do. Luckily out of the blue BB told me that hy didn't need these grand gestures and that small meaningful gestures and even just time together was what mattered. That was a relief.

So here is the question - if you met someone that you had interest in - that you admire, respect, desire and have that fire of "know what you want" for - who dosen't do courting (monogamous only seeing each other) right away, but only does dating with no exclusivity or promises until they know you much better, before they even *think* of courting, even if they agree there is a good click, what would you do? Every woman I have ever dated I felt that way towards. There was something and there was interesting and respect but I certainly didn't expect her to drop any other people she was seeing and exclusively date Me.

Would you push her to commit? Give her an ultimatum? Try to do things a new way? Walk away? Try to reach a middle ground? I would not push her to commit. It would take more than a few dates to get to that point. I played the field often and I let every woman know that I was dating other people Right out in the open. I see other people. This honestly gave them the freedom to walk away from Me or to be alright with that and expect Me the same freedom to see other people. I would never walk away. Dating allows two people to develop something if something is there and if it is meant to be deepen the relationship by becoming exclusive.

You've been on two or three dates with them, say, and spend time sending each other emails and call each other for long chats a twice a week. You want monogamy, but she doesn't feel she knows you well enough to make that call and probably won't for three or four months, at least. Your metaphorical balls are turning blue and going to drop off because you are discussing sex, quite openly and I'm great detail, it's an important topic to her. You really want to have sex. She hesitates about it because she knows that you take sex very seriously, right off the bat. My metaphoric balls wouldn't turn blue. It would be up to Me to be clear in stating that if she doesn't want to commit and be monogamous than she should not expect that of Me while I wait for her to decide. She can take three or four months to decide. These things take time to build on. Trust and commitment don't happen overnight. A foundation of respect has to be laid before either party can be.

She says she doesn't mind if you go on dates and talk to others because she doesn't expect exclusivity at this point in time. She will not be pushed, she's fiery and has excellent boundaries. Her no means absolutely not. But she is kind, generous, sweet, nurturing, honest, and much more vulnerable than she'll let people on to.I would agree to continue dating her because she has all these positive attributes. She can't mind if I date if she isn't willing to commit. And if the day comes when she is, I hope that I will have been smart enough to stick around. [ACTUALLY, THAT WAS MY SCENARIO over two years ago.. now she is My wife.. so I was smart enough not to let her go]

True confessions: I'm irrationally upset by compliments. I can usually handle the first one, but each successive compliment makes me progressively more uncomfortable. Excessive compliments would make anyone uncomfortable, but I start feeling weird from compliment #1. I think I feel as if the person complimenting me is just setting both of us for some sort of huge disappointment later. I've gotten much better at graciously accepting a few, but it hasn't been easy. Now I just warn everyone when they're about to exceed their ration for the day/week/month. It's not that I don't want to know if my date finds me attractive. I certainly want that! I just inappropriately get that strange 'uh-oh' feeling whenever I get complimented.

I'm a 52 y/o femme, by the way. I'm also non-monogamous, and unlike the vast majority of posters here, I don't see monogamy as an eventuality once I start getting serious about someone. I expect to remain some kind of non-monogamous throughout my committed relationship(s).

Mine would not turn blue and drop off ...just be having severe sexual pains regularly I imagine. If I find her extraordinarily special, I can wait. Simple to say, hard to do but I think in the long run it would be best ... I am only speaking for me.

Both snipped.

I am going to weigh in on the romance thing: I LOVE ROMANCE. I love grand gesture, sweeping, formal romance and I also love the romantic times together being silly and doing little things. Some of the most romantic times in my life happened very spontaneously. You might not deduce from my other posts about having really strong emotional boundaries with people that I love romance, but I do. I love traditional, old school romance. I JUST DON'T LIKE IT IF I DON'T KNOW YOU.

If my partner gives me flowers and takes me out on an expensive date to a fancy restaurant and we dress up and shit, it makes me totally giddy. (Not that we need to do it all the time.) But for a first date? With someone I'm just getting to know? If you show up at my door in a suit with flowers I will be freaked the fuck out. Coffee seems like a more reasonable first date, I'm trying to get to know you kind of thing.

imperfect_cupcake: I'm so glad you brought up the five love languages thing. I found it very enlightening when I found out what my top love languages were, and like to know to know the people I am dating's are. Mine are words of affirmation and gifts, almost in equal measure. I *LOVE* (genuine) compliments and to be fawned all over, and reassurances, and to be told how much someone loves me. I need that. (Again--NOT if I've known you for like two weeks.) The gifts part I used to feel weird about--but I love being given things. It doesn't have to be expensive or even cost any money at all.

I just love physical, tangible tokens that show me someone was thinking of me. That they picked up throughout the day, just because. I love being made things. I'm a very tactile person and I love to hold things and run my hands over them, so getting something like a stone or a shell is always wonderful. I like wacky little gifts. A game. A book. A magazine. Fun stickers, a pen, cute socks, a notebook. Seriously, some of the gifts I've been most pleased with over the years cost like a dollar.

But all things in moderation until I know you. That is the key.

Speaking of which--I WANT A KINDER EGG!!!!! I would totally squee to get ones of those as a gift.

Link to the five love languages test: http://www.5lovelanguages.com/

Not that this whole thread needs to be become about that, but now I am developing a theory about how what a person's love language is might influence how they date and try to get to know people. I have found mostly people do things for others that they would see as loving and would want done for themselves and it doesn't always mean the same thing to another person. Because you're speaking a different language.

Ok, I'm rambling and suspecting I have lost total point of what I am doing in this post but am gonna hit click anyways...

I don't recall ever having rules or a laundry list of expectations for much of anything but certainly not for how I plan to date. I'm not concerned if we are going in the same direction since I'm not heading in any particular direction. I'm mostly meandering about enjoying the view, smelling the flowers that I surely would not pick and bring on any date ever again without thinking long and hard about the possible implications.

I probably could have benefited more in my personal life by having an agenda, not being so directionally challenged and planning ahead. But mostly I just trust my instincts and take everything separately and individually as it occurs, which actually did not work out badly in the end. The one thing I do find important to discover, when getting to know someone and figuring out where they might fit in my life, is if they possess the ability to be intimate. People who make it into my inner circle must be able to both trust and inspire trust. In my experience, intimacy is the mother of trust. And when I talk about trust it really has little to do with whether or not someone is having sex with more than just me.

Regarding the question if I could be monogamous quickly during the dating portion of a relationship, that depends on how quickly and of course how I feel about the person. As long as we didn't just say hello a week ago and as long as I think there may be something there and the person's quick desire for monogamy isn't because they cannot understand the difference between intensity and intimacy, I can go fast. Conversely, as long as a person's desire to go slow doesn't hide an inability to be intimate or vulnerable, I can go slow. What drives someone's actions is more important to me than the actions themselves. So if I perceive the possibility of a relationship with the person then I can go slow or go fast depending on the comfort zone of the other. Again it is important and I can't stress this enough, that the other be able to tell the difference between intimacy and intensity. If you believe your heart will break if you can't have me promise you forever and we just met last week, then your an intensity junkie. I don't need the drama. People who barely know each other cannot possibly have a love story for the ages. Personally I find love at first sight to be an impossible concept. What could conceivably be one's definition of love that simply seeing someone could allow you to be in love. How is that even possible? How can love happen by looking? Hell, I wonder how people can fall in love in 6 months, never mind at first sight.

I don't have deep feelings invested in initial relationships. I have feelings don't get me wrong, but I save my deep forever feelings for deep forever relationships. That means that while I am interested and moved by how you feel if we are in the early stages of a relationship, I am not concerned that I will be made to feel any way because of your influence. I won't feel put upon or forced or used or made to feel something I'm not interested in feeling. That generally opens me up to be free to explore areas or move in directions I might not ordinarily go just to see what it's like or where it leads. My feelings are mostly my own and until someone is a very big part of my life they have little power to effect them. I doubt I would ever feel trapped, at least not for long, because if I felt trapped i would set myself free. And the last thing I would ever want to do is have someone feel trapped or forced into something because of something I need. The need to never do that to anyone would trump any other need.

What I want from a relationship has nothing to do with time or speed or ownership. I can usually tell pretty quickly if someone is going to be able to give me the things I need at some point. I need for the other person to see me. I'm not afraid to show who I am, but the other has to be willing to look. People are often deeply invested in seeing what they want to see in others. I want someone who can see me. I want to feel accepted for who I am. I need to feel a sense of safety, i need to be able to be vulnerable and intimate and to trust the other will honor that. I need to have the other try to give these things back to me to the best of their ability. I need them to trust me enough to show themselves to me. I promise to honor their trust. Ultimately time and speed have little to do with this, except in that people are capable of achieving these things at different rates and to different degrees. And I can wait for you to get there as long as you're willing to try. But ownership never even enters the equation. I don't want to own you and you can't own me. You will just frustrate yourself if you try. You will be very unhappy in a relationship with me if that is what you need. I will feel for you but I am not going to own your issues. I'm like coated in teflon when it comes to stuff like that. You can try to put that stuff on me but it will just slide off. Mostly people with the need to own others or the need for drama and intensity grow weary of me very quickly.

There is nothing wrong with being intense. I'm a very intense person. I'm also very earnest. There is a difference between being intense and using emotional intensity as camouflage to hide the fact that you haven't a clue how to be intimate with another person.

Absolutely. I think Chapman's book (although Christian based, so may not work for everyone), is a great book for couples to read together and discuss.

I'm not sure if you have read the book, but what you are saying is what it is all about. Learning our partner's love language and speaking it to them and vice versa.