Thank you for bringing racism in to the discussion.

Ldyluck, I understand your frustration about not being able to get a job right now, and I wish you luck--may you find what you need!

Your assertion about taxes is dead wrong, though. Illegal aliens from any country DO pay taxes; they're held out of their paychecks just like everyone else's are. Think about it--these businesses would all be shut down by the IRS if they didn't pay the payroll taxes for their employees!

What happens is that since people have to use fake social security numbers to get the jobs in the first place--employers are REQUIRED to have social security cards on file for every employee--they pay the taxes but can never collect the benefits, not retirement, not Medicare, not disability, not unemployment, nothing.

I know this by direct experience; there are many illegal aliens connected to my family through two different branches. My one nephew's father, as a matter of fact, has been laid off and will soon be homeless himself if he cannot find another job.

These are hard-working people who ask for little other than a chance to make a living, and who receive even less than those of us with the proper birth certificates do. These are our neighbors, who only want to live safe lives with enough food on the table and a way to pay their rent every month. In a booming economy, we would hardly notice them; the suffering economy impacts them as much as it does everyone else. The solution is not to focus on them, but on the economy itself. The solution is to create more jobs to replace all the ones that big corporations have taken overseas.

I once worked for an employer in TN who made a practice of hiring employees who had "questionable documentation". While the documents they presented for I9 requirements had one name, they went by another and every year, the Department of Social Security would send a list of employees whose provided social security numbers did not match official records.

We were required to post the list and ask the employees to contact SS to resolve the issue. For the two years I was there, the list was the same and the employees listed were also the same.

These employees did have social security and medicare taxes withdrawn from their pay, but all of them had completed W-4's in a manner that no federal tax was withheld. TN doesn't have a state income tax, so there was no contribution to the state except in the sales tax they paid on purchases.

Of course, the employer paid matching SS and medicare taxes along with FUTA and SUTA.

I left employment there based on some other questionable activities that I could not be a party to once I became aware of them.

Of course, there are many employers who do have unofficial employees who are paid off the books or as 1099-MISC independent contractor. There are no employment taxes (SS, Medicare, SUTA or FUTA) paid nor are these folks eligible for any benefits.

Several years later, at a different employer, I was able to assist one of our employees in gaining his citizenship. The expense, things he had to learn, the process was so overwhelming even to me. Some of the things he had to learn to "pass the test" were questions that I had to look up - things that I am not even sure were covered in my many years of education.

It took him a good 5 years to obtain his citizenship and I was honored that he asked me to attend the ceremony. I watched as 51 people from 26 different countries took the oath of citizenship and it struck me as to how much they wanted to be a part of the country that we so often bitch and moan about - that they went through the ordeal to have some of the very rights we do have and take for granted. It was humbling, to say the least.

I still have a ring that he gave me as a thank you present that he purchased on his first trip back to visit his family (what was left of it) in Iraq. There are times when I am digging in my jewelry box that I come across it and think about Khalid and what becoming a citizen meant to him.

A slight derail to the topic at hand, I know, but I felt important to mention that while I understand non documented persons are just trying to feed their families and survive as the rest of us do, this issue does add to the overall economic issues.

Its not about racism, but more that I feel it needs to be easier, less costly for a person to become documented. I feel we need to make it more difficult for employers to "pay under the table" so that it solves both issues - the worker who works for meager pennies and the employer who surely uses this power he has over the worker to his advantage.

More to the topic at hand, the industry in which I work has historically shown economic trends 3-6 months before other industries. Q1, we have shown a 11% increase in sales, many "new business", which based on our 57 year history, indicates that we should see an upswing in the economy in the next 3-6 months. I watched the ebb and flow of our business last year and the 3-6 month theory held pretty well. It makes me hopeful.

this sentiment would be laughable if it weren't rooted in ignorance and racism.

as far as your assertion that you would 'love to have any job at this point' --have you tried standing outside of home depot and picking up one of those day labor jobs that you think have been stolen from you?

I was wondering....these jobs that have been stolen from you (lawn maintenance, picking strawberries, cleaning toilets) would you be willing to work them for the same wages (less than minimum, let me tell you!) that these awful illegal immigrants who are ruining your life are doing them for?

Don't get all snippy. Just answer the questions.

1. I would be willing to clean some rich person's toilet for less than minimum wage with no medical insurance.
Circle True or False

2. I would be willing to work longer than 12 hour days picking fruit, while making less than minimum wage and getting no medical insurance.
Circle True or False

3. I would be willing to mow some assholes lawn. I don't mind that I will be making less than minimum wage and will receive no medical benefits.
Circle True or False

If you answered false to any of those questions kindly stfu about how the big bad illegal immigrants are stealing your jobs. YOU WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING. Admit it.

My illegal momma was someone's maid for years.. Wanna know why? Cause no one else wanted the fucking job, she didn't take it from anyone, she took what made her money to feed her kids with... So please yes be a lil bit more careful how you state things.. please and thank you:hippie:

I have to add because it bothers me it really does...

You are being judgemental by--- somehow conjuring up in your privileged mind that those who do not have the proper documentation to work in this USof A are *stealing* jobs from...

Who? Do these people go around knocking people down at the lines of people standing to pick the lettuce we all eat in a bag?

Do you think my non english speakin momma took someone's knees out to get this high end position? Do you know what maids do for rich folk?

Do you honestly think that the guys moving the lawns elbowed someone in the eye and got in front of the line at the company they got hired at?

I am really curious *how* you came to the conclusion jobs are being stolen by *illegal immigrants*

Taking this to another direction.. I just came out of a 1 1/2 hour presentation on consumer trends and the economy.

There's a free white paper (haven't looked at it yet but I believe its the same subject matter of the presentation) here: http://www.darwiniangale.com (edit: just looked and you have to fill in info to get it, be forewarned).

Basically how we've gone from an age of indulgence to an age of consequence where folks are more aware of the consequence of risk. They will still spend but prioritize their spending more and shop on value not just price.

Technically we're no longer in a recession but slow growth recovery (with bumps in the road).

Anyway, not going to bore you will all the details, but I took notes :)

In these types of conversations I often wonder why nobody brings up all the undocumented workers who DO pay taxes, pay into Social Security and Disability but can never file for those tax benefits?

The amount is astronomical.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! Bit also brought this up a page or so back.