The myth of inevitable lesbian bed death probably added years to my closet-time.

That is why I have always found a difference between lesbians and butch/femme. In my unscientific surveying, butch/femme has less bed death because we tend to have elements of sexuality in our identity. It's a more cock centric vs. dildo centric identification--butch cock that is.

I don't identify as a lesbian, I identify as a butch. I feel I am on the male side of butch and prefer 'hy' rather than she as a pronoun, it's not much deeper of an identification than that. That said, no, I do not want to be a man as some would think that myth goes--the more masculine the butch, the more they want to be a man.

Rope--

Myth: butches and femmes are not lesbians.

Reality: Many of us are both.

My femme cock begs to differ with the idea that the existence of butch cock is the reason for lesbian-sex-life longevity. :P

At least, I certainly hope that butch cock is not the only possible resolution to or vaccination against lbd. :)

Yes, I agree. I am a butch with a cock, no dildo-centrism here. However I also find the notion that butch femme sex to be cock-centric to be quite inaccurate as well as offensive. Also femmes have cocks as well as butches. People (whatever their sexuality or gender identity may be) can enjoy sex without a penis, cock, dildo etc. being "centric." I also don't see butch femme sexuality (whatever that is supposed to be) to be centered around butch.

Hmm, not sure why you're offended. I certainly did not mean to imply that butch/femme cock centric sex was the ONLY way we know how to entertain ourselves. My main distinction was the difference between butch cock and lesbian dildos (many of the lesbians I know are quite offended that SOME butches think of it as their butch cock and not a toy).

First of all, many butches and femmes are also lesbians, so the reasoning doesn't make any sense (less bed death for butch-femme vs lesbian).

Second of all, butches aren't the only ones with cocks.

Third, butch femme sexuality isn't cock-centric or centered around butches.

Oh and the thought of lesbian sex (lesbians who don't view themselves or their partners as having a cock) as dildo-centric just makes me laugh, lol.

Even if there supposedly was some distinction between seeing sex centered around a cock vs. a dildo, how would that make a difference in less bed death anyway? One is considered a toy and one is not???? That makes for less bed death?

I am not partnered with a butch and I am *very happy* with what happens in my bed.

I have in the past enjoyed the "company" of butches and bois (lesbian-identified and not, stone and not), cismen, transmen, androgynous lesbians, feminine lesbians and one straight girl. Of the butches, some were cock-centric, some didn't even want to consider wearing one, some wanted to be slapped, some wanted to be called Daddy. Some were mostly hands-on, some were mostly on their backs, etc. It seemed to me there was no rule about how a butch f*cks any more than there's a rule about how anybody else does.

I have zero complaints regarding the "butch cock" but (to me) it's not a magic wand and you don't have to be butch to have an immersive, visceral experience wearing one. :) And for those butches who don't identify with or enjoy the experience, I don't think that subtracts from their inherent butchness one iota.

I really haven't noticed a huge correlation between people's identities and what they do in bed, with the exception of the term "stone" which still varies a lot from person to person.

PS. I'm not offended - I just don't want have one very specific myth of butch-femme sex - or lesbian sex - to be perpetuated unchecked. There are lesbians who take their cocks very seriously (like me) and there are lesbians who consider them toys and there are lesbians who consider them unnecessary, and there are lesbians who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are butches who take their cocks very seriously, there are butches who consider them toys and there are butches who consider them unnecessary and there are butches who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. There are femmes who take their cocks very seriously (again, like me!), there are femmes who consider them toys, there are femmes who consider them unnecessary and there are femmes who really want absolutely nothing to do with them. Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea. :)

I'm betting what you said though Rope - has been true for you and your experience. I don't think you meant anything offensive in your post.

The first butch I "dated" said very negative things about "lesbians" in bed, and she tended to look for straight girls because she had unstated boundaries about how she wanted to be touched and looking for straight feminine women was her solution. I was just coming to understand my sexuality when I met her, and after our first (and only) encounter, she told me I was definitely a "lesbian" and then she told all her friends I was "too butch" for her. However, she never stated her boundaries, she seemed to be quite happy during the encounter. Eh, the experience was painful all around, and I think it would have been less so if people didn't assume that these identities equate to certain acts in the bedroom.

ok so i aked a group of my hetro biker friends what the top ten toughts they had of lesbians..
overweight
mean
wear flannel shirts
like group sex
wear steel toe boots
short hair
hate men
want to be men
have great BBQs
beer drinker

lol dont kill the messenger!! this was kinda a homework project and came from hetro mens mouths! and they also think were all cool!

Some list, huh? Actually, I think it is good to get some of this from outside the community- these are the very same kinds of things that have been around for years from het men I have run across! Some things never change!!

Wow, thanks for reading a whole bunch of things into my post. Guess I'll move on...

Yeah, and my butch clit thinks this whole conversation is absurd- as if every population doesn't experience bed-death in some form as well! With a whole lot of reasons... which have solutions! Most of which have nothing to do with sex directly and everything to do with other areas of communication and the willingness to do something about it.

I get so tired of who calls what...... what and why and that every person experiences the same things as sexual beings.

I thought I had myself allllllllll figured out, and then I read... But seriously? I am a lesbian, and I am NOT less than......:blink:

Absolutely!! We are not less than anything and we are as B-F as any one else!

Lesbian bed death in and of itself is one of the biggest myths of all! Makes me crazy to see it perpetuated by our own community. It's that old generalization thing.

You know what Rope, if anyone is reading more into your post you can always clarify if you want. Quite frankly, your post reads as anti-lesbian to me and perpetuating lesbian myths in a thread that was started to debunk them. Feel free to show me I am wrong if you wish.

I do not know you, but I find it hard to believe that you haven't been exposed to a wide range of lesbians given what I do understand your background to be. A mutual friend- a femme lesbian- arranged a get together when you were in Portland years ago- so I know you know some lesbian femmes and butches. I've seen it first hand. Oh and we all met at a lesbian bar and none of the lesbians treated butches badly there. I don't understand why you draw a distinction betwen lesbian and butch-femme or why you did in your post at the very least.

You've been part of the online BF websites for years, you live in the Bay Area, you help arrange BF socials, you are active in the leather community. I am making an educated guess that you know or have met lots of different types of lesbians, many of whom are also butch or femme. So I don't get your remark that lesbians tend to have more bed death than butch-femme because they aren't cock centric (object to a dildo being thought of as a cock- yeah I am lost with your argument so I might haven't gotten it wrong).

I have a problem with any member posting in a specific ZONE (this thread is in the Lesbian Zone) things that are negative about said population- or making generalizations about it. Don't we have enough of this going on in the world at large?

This isn't any different than what recently went on when a member made derogatory remarks about BDSM in a BDSM Zone thread and then started an anti-BDSM thread that also ran down our admin. Not only did our BDSM members take issue with this, but many non-BDSM members did too because they are against censorship as well as the perpetuation of myths about BDSM and the character of people that practice it. That person was moderated, but fast (I was glad to see this)!

Seems like this applies here. FerCripeSakes, the thread was started to banish myths about lesbianism! And there are many members that identify as both
B-F and as lesbian.

The site TOS now includes lesbian-phobia as something members can report for moderation consideration.

I am the one who brought up LBD and Rope was responding to me. I don't agree with Rope's theory but in a thread about lesbian myths, Rope offered a theory based on experience as to why the myth doesn't seem to apply to butch-femme relationships. I read that as good intention / unintentional anti-lesbian/anti-butch/anti-woman word choice.

Where did I first hear about lbd? From a silly book ostensibly written by a lesbian for questioning women that I thumbed through at the age of 19. That was the first time I tried to get the door open on my closet - and it was rather discouraging misinformation. I remember thinking very clearly and practically, "well, that'll never work." I put the book down and began dating my future ex-husband a few months later.

One thing that is nice about living now is that there are more representations of lesbian sexuality to be found than I remember existing back then. I hope if a 19 year old me walked into a bookstore today, she might be able to find something a bit more encouraging and representative of a broader spectrum of desire and identity.

Nat, yes, there is a myth about lesbian bed death already out there and you brought it up initially. You weren't perpetuating it.

I don't know why people do the butch-femme vs. lesbian when they overlap and it's not an us vs them issue. This is something I see over and over again on BF websites and I do not care for it at all. Many (in my opinion- particularly in the real world- a majority) of butches and femmes consider themselves to also be lesbians.

As to hys experience, again I don't know hym, but it seems quite puzzling to me that someone exposed to so many different types of people given the geographical area hy lives and social circles hy is part of, would make such a statement.