People will ID you as lesbian even if you are feminine if you are alternative. i do not have an alternative look. i couldn't do it if i tried. i so resent the people over the years, butch, femme and andro, who have given me that holier than thou look meaning YOU can't be one of us.

I definitely feel everyone on the femme invisibility issue- unless I'm seen with my butch partner, I know I'm assumed to be something I'm not until I tell that person otherwise.

That said, in the 11 years I've been ID'ing as femme, I can't recall anyone ever telling me I can't be a dyke, you're too girly, you must also date men, etc. Sure, they were surprised when I first told them, but pretty much it ended there.

I know this happens, I've heard about it from femmes here and on other sites, I just wonder if I got lucky or something?

I have never had anyone tell me I must date men. Parents came close to a few "shoulds". I have had straight guys tell me I didn't "look like" a lesbian, guess because I am femme and I have had straight women be surprised.

I did give some laughs to a couple of butches at the door of an old lesbian bar called The Happy Hour during the late 70's when I came out, when the majority of lesbians were in a more androgynous phase, than femme. I showed up dressed in full femme and they acted like I took a wrong turn on the freeway but that was the only time lesbians ever acted like that towards me.

the scenario
 

My sister and I are sitting at my Aunt's table. They are drinking coffee, I am drinking my preferred hot drink, peppermint tea. The conversation goes as follows.

Aunt Jane: Malissa, I've known you all of my life. You're not gay.
Me: stunned silence.
Aunt Jane: Besides, I've been with women and it's fun, but it's just a game.
Me: stunned and somewhat grossed out.
Aunt Jane: Besides, your Uncle John (she provided me with 6 uncles, Uncle John being the last one) used to do "that" (oral sex) to me all the time when we first got together, now he doesn't. What are you going to do when "she" (abstract woman) doesn't do it any more?
Me: stunned, horrified, grossed out and pissed off.

I didn't know how to answer her and still be respectful of her position in my life. She was my Mother's only sibling and I knew damned well what Mother would have wanted me to do, and so I did. I smiled, seethed silently, drank my tea and proceded to ignore her.

I now know what my answer should have been.

Next scenario. Sitting in a church room with a woman who used to be my spiritual mentor. The conversation went as follows.

Sharon: Missy (I do not like that nickname, but Mother gave it to me. I prefer Lissa, or Malissa...lol) Missy, are you with someone now?
Me: No.
Sharon: You mean you're not having sex with another woman?
Me: No. (At the time, I was NOT seeing anyone)
Sharon: Well, if you're not having sex, then you're not a lesbian.
Me: thinking, WTF??


Seriously? So, if some single heterosexual person is not sexually active, then they are not really heterosexual?? And, news flash to my Aunt (She's in heaven now, so I have to be nice) Oral sex is just ONE of many different ways of having sex with another woman.

Besides ALL of that.... I resent the entire idea that being a lesbian has ANYTHING to do with sex. I am not a lesbian because I have sex with women. I have sex with women, because I am a lesbian.

That. Apparently (according to a friend of a friend) gay Italian girls are told to marry boys anyway as ''They can always fake it''. Clearly it's better to be normal than to be happy.

I think there is still a real stigma against heteronormative women behaving in non-heteronormative ways, an underlying belief that we are deliberately rebelling against nature rather than being the women society expects us to be.

i have to say that butches are some of the worst offenders re making me aware of my invisibility as a lesbian. They have been so stared at for so long that some of them are pretty prickly. So when a straight looking woman looks at them, they often return some pretty nasty looks.

Not fun to be given that look by someone you are admiring. i don't know what it is like to be harrassed all your life for being a dyke. i know it's much worse than what i am complaining about. For one thing it includes the potential for violence.

But i sometimes wish butches were a little more gracious when a straight looking woman gives them they eye. So many just assume we're STARING at the lesbian. Well i may be staring, but it's not cause i am appalled that yer a dyke. ANyway, high end problem i know. But when i get those looks, i get pissed. i actually YELLED at some baby butch who gave me a withering look for noticing her, "I was a dyke before you were BORN, sister." Sorta ashamed to admit that. But i had just had my fill of that shit.

Ha ha, I have been tempted .. Kudos to you.

@ Martina How did she react, when you told her that?

I'm surprised at this attitude by other butches. When a woman is checking me over, straight or not, sneering look or not, I'll always smile at them and be polite.

I too know someone, who upon being caught perving on a young butch, was very hurt when the girl not only assumed my friend was straight, but rudely told her so.

That's terrible! It seems that it's the young ones that are giving us a bad name. Older butches know to assume everyone is gay unless told otherwise ;)

Just wanted to add that I'm sorry for stepping into femme space. I was just appalled at the actions of those butches.

I don't think its just the butches, I think femme visibility is also weighted towards the young. How many people do you know who complain that being recognised is almost impossible as you get older, or come out as an older woman, or even just have kids! It seems lesbians are just as susceptible to falling prey to stereotypes as straight people.

i guess a little chagrinned but then kinda scared that she got yelled at.

That's the most disrespectful shit femmes have to deal with