Thanks for the reply julie. I can understand not using certain terms or using certain terms that your husband doesn't like/likes when referring to him. But what about other trans people? That's why I don't like her use of the word "tranny" here. If she were referring to her husband, then I would understand. I guess what I'm trying to understand is why the word that one uses for one's significant other needs to be assumed for other trans people (especially when it's a well-known slur)? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

Ender, you make some excellent thinking points in this post. It's never up to the majority to decide what is offensive to the minority.

But see maybe she is just learning and then uses the terms her husband is comfortable with and is told those are not ok. It is a learning curve.

We know a transman who has limited experience in the trans community and zero experience in the queer community. Wow does he put his foot in in sometimes!!! I would never tell him he was homophobic or transphobic. I just explain how others might hear that remark.

So no you are not misunderstanding me. I don't have the answers in this case. My partner sure would not put up with me calling him or anyone else a tranny. We don't know how it works for these folks.

All I am really trying to say is that partners worry A LOT about being transphobic. I wonder is this the transition I am responding to or just some stuff of my partner's? Is my reaction transphobic? And sometimes it just might be!!! I worry much less about this nowadays. I know what is ok for my partner and for the community. But I learned by screwing up!!!

Ah okay got it. She had altercations with other transmen. I missed that. Sorry.

I absolutely did not say that slurs are acceptable. I said that in this context, she probably didn't realize that some people would take it as a slur. As has already been mentioned, this couple lives in Canada. Where they live, it's not a slur. It's incredibly unfair to expect someone to not use a word that's in common use and not offensive where they live, just because it is offensive in a completely different country.

I don't live in a completely different country. I'm Canadian. I know plenty of people around here who find the slur offensive. Other Canadians in the comment area from Vancouver themselves voiced that they didn't appreciate the use of the word tranny.

She's also writing this in a popular nation-wide LGBT newspaper (Xtra), that is given out for free in newspaper boxes on street corners across this city and across other Canadian cities. This isn't exactly her personal blog.

Oh yeah, I definitely understand that when people are new to something it takes them time to learn. I'm pretty sure all of us have unknowingly made some pretty horrible statements in our time. I know I've said some things that I've regretted just because I didn't know better.

I guess to me it comes down to how willing or sensitive people are to learning. Her comments just don't sound at all like she wants to learn, they seem directly in response to the criticism of these "rah rah trannies" whoever they were.

It just makes her sound like she was wronged by some trans people who criticized the way she was dealing with her husband's transition, and so she took that opportunity to rail against them using derogatory language.

I know emotions can be high when you have to deal with a loved one's transition. But, for me, the question here is when is going too far, really going too far? How many derogatory things can a person express out of anger before it becomes officially hurtful and crosses the imaginary line?

I get that some people use this sort of language without bad intent. One of my roommates who's trans uses the word tranny to refer to herself all the time. That's her identity, but she respects others' identity at least. I just didn't get that from her article, and on to of that those aren't words, to me, cis people should be saying.

And its not that I'm not supportive of SOs who are dealing with their partner's transitions. It's not that I don't understand that sometimes people need to express what they're feeling about a tough situation without judgement. I really think it's important for family and loved ones to get support and counseling, too. It seems that she wasn't getting the support she needed and that truly sucks. At the same time, if someone's unapologetically saying things like those two comments she made...that I find really, really hard to accept. I don't think I can. Basically...I support her until she starts railing against an already marginalized group...

Ender I went back and read the article again. I also read the comments section. There is some good discussion on her use of tranny. It seems that her husband uses this word quite deliberately and so her using it could not be seen as a mistake or not knowing better. In that case it could be seen as deliberately divisive. I think she chose her words carefully and so she does have to be responsible for offending some transpeople.

I still support her speaking out. Much of what she said rang true for me. Sometimes it is hard to know where we fit in. Some think my partner can no longer claim Butch as an ID.

This is a hard subject to talk about. I do not want to offend anyone and yet I feel and understand her frustration.

You are right though that the word was used intentionally and so therefore is offensive to you and lots of other people, even though her partner chooses to identify as a tranny.

precisely
 

I looked for support but found very little because partners don’t generally talk about the difficulties we face in transition. Nobody wants to be the one to say, “This fucking hurts,” lest we be judged by the politically fuelled who would label us transphobic.

(from the original article)




....but no one discusses this

I grew up in redneck, USA... when I hear the word "tranny" I flash back to shade tree mechanics talking about transmission repair. But yeah, I feel like the word carries some derogatory connotations to it for most folks, whether intended or not by the writer/speaker.

I thought we were discussing it. What do you want to discuss about it? It will be different here than in a room full of partners. I am ok with discussions of transphobia as well as sharing my experience.

I'm actually very interested in hearing more experiences on what it felt like for SO's of trans people. If anyone else would like to share. I mean you don't have to go into detail if you don't want to but I would like to know what it felt or feels like on the other end. Like the woman in the article shared and like some others have already shared.

Honestly, when I read the phrase "rah rah tranny people" I figured she wasn't speaking about actual transpeople. I figured she was speaking about the cheerleaders, who may not actually be trans themselves.

It's like the term trannychaser. Which is a term I like, frankly. Because it's so fucking spot-on.

In other news: No. Nobody does talk about what it's like to be the SO of someone who is transitioning. It's just fucking not fashionable for the SO to have feelings, especially if not all of those feelings are "rah rah rah GOOOOOOOOOO transperson! wooo!"

True story. Someone I was living with (10 years ago) dropped the "oh hi, I just this week realised that I'm a man and next week I have an appointment at the gender clinic!" (liar liar liar) bomb on me shortly after we moved in together.

Now, he had money troubles. Big money troubles. I was working full-time and he was just on-call at his job. So sometimes I had to pay more than my share of our expenses. I was cool with that because I knew I made more money than he did. So after he started going to his appointments and support groups and hanging out with his cool new boyfriends - he also started buying a shitload of new clothes. I very specifically remember this one month he didn't have money for his half of the phonebill but the next day he came home with a new fucking hoodie. So I called him out on it and he was all *tearfull* *earnest* "But I feel like I pass better in this sweatshirt".

I. Completely. Lost. My. Shit. I absolutely said that "frankly I do not give a fuck if you pass or not at this juncture. Right now I am way more concerned about whether or not we get our telephone cut off." Aaaaaand the universe blew up. "I cannot believe you would say something so TRANSPHOBIC!" blah blah blah. Fuck, I even had to hear what a horrible person I am from some of our mutual friends who he has whined to.

Couple that with the fact that he was, honestly, my First Real Girlfriend and I was feeling real mindjobby about that too (because I was really REALLY stoked to have a First Real Girlfriend, let me tell you.) But you know, I was never allowed to say that out loud to him. And I was never allowed to talk to anybody else about it because saying outloud that I felt ripped off because I no longer had a girlfriend (and what I really wanted was a fucking girlfriend!) was TRANSPHOBIC.

And it really fucking sucks. We are not allowed to have any feelings or disclose any negative experiences because to do so is TRANSPHOBIC. It's almost as if as soon as the person we are with starts to transition we are no longer allowed to be people. We're not allowed to have feelings, unless they are "rah rah rah!".

ETA: More true stories! I have broken up with exactly two other people since then because they decided to transition after we got together. Not because I am TRANSPHOBIC (although I have heard that I am) but because that's just not the relationship that I want to be in. Early on in the transitioning process is often a really selfish/self-absorbed time-frame in a person's life...and so it should be. I certainly am not in any position to tell other people what they should or should not do...but I think it's a time-frame where people are best off single. Or at the very least they are (or I am, more likely) best off not dating ME.

I'm reluctant to throw "transphobic" around because nobody wants to be put on the spot where they have to defend personal actions that come from specific, individualized experiences. I might be considered transphobic because I've said here and in other spaces that I'm not really interested in dating someone who is transitioning or who identifies as male. I will support anyone's decision to transition, and if I'm in a position to be an ally, then I'll always be that. But there are times when the personal trumps the political, and I think that's what is at work in the original author's relationship.

I don't find this transphobic at all?

I chose to be with my husband, yet still I had to accept his body hair, the way he smelled, the lack of breasts, my lost identity, my heterosexuality, the questions I asked myself and others asked of me. I was a lesbian and his 'trans' identity didn't change the fact that I was now in a relationship with a man.

I'm glad they stayed together, just as I'm glad I still have my amazing man :love1:

It's not throwing around transphobia needlessly when the word "tranny" is used by cis people to talk about a group of trans people, or when transphobia is depicted as something that trans people throw at cis people to make them feel guilty or negate their feelings. Sorry, but I continue to see her two statements as transphobic. I don't find her feelings over her husbands transition transphobic, nor would I find it transphobic if she left him. In fact, I think it's probably a good idea for a relationship to end if a cis person can't deal with their partner's transition. If they find their partner "hard to love" because of their transition...maybe a break up is better for both, because I know I wouldn't want to be "harder to love" just because of who I am.

And this is where I get back to the questions I was trying to ask before:

At what point does being angry or hurt stop justifying the use of transphobic language. Does it ever? Or is transphobic language always something that trans people should just have to put up with if the person using it is "hurting" or dealing with a partner's transition.

This, to me, is what support groups have always been for. Getting out negative feelings in an SO-only environment without projecting it onto a whole group or a certain individual out of a marginalized group.

I read the article. It did bother me that her tone was so flip about such an important subject. Her use if the word "tranny" made me cringe!

We do not know how her partner took that article or how it made him feel to read it it.

That said, it is a serious and important topic. I watched a documentary on Netflix recently called Gender Rebels. It was quite good. One of the 3 subjects was around the life of a lesbian couple and the process that the femme went through when her partner transitioned.

Her grief and fear was valid and real. There was nothing phobic about it. She knew her lover one way for quite a while and then she needed to view her lover in quite another. She did not know if she would lose their lesbian friends or how it would affect their life.

I believe that there is a grieving process involved for any change as massive as this one.

The documentary showed hers. As her lover transitioned-he became happier while she dealt with her sadness. In the end, it appeared that the love that she had for him was greater than her fears of loss and they remained together.

As a lesbian, I do not know what I would do in the same situation but would like to think that I would be able to process it in a healthy fashion and as the romantic that I am-believe that love can conquer all.

I think that having your partner transition would be quite different than meeting someone new and knowing from them from the beginning as trans.