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I support legal immigration to the US, and I want to see a humane policy in regards to any nations citizens, that law that the governor signed isn't constitutionally legal, it will be repealed. |
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The US has a history of invading countries, Mexico doesn't need this kind of help. Mexico is a sovereign nation, it does not want the US congress to enact any measures where sending troops are involved. Legalize drugs, and this will all end. As someone who lives in a country where that is also a problem, I know for a fact that we don't want the US saving troops here either. Supply and demand, is that simple. Win the war on drugs in the US and countries like mine and Mexico would have less headaches and issues with cartels and the crimes associated with them. To think that sending US troops places is the cure for all simply blows my mind. Rocking, I quoted you but this is a general statement to the thread. |
We went to that rally today at the Arizona state capital. There were lots of people there and lots of cops. I didn't see any people that were in favor of the senate bill 1070. It was very emotional when we first got there just reading the signs people had made, seeing the folks who brought their kids to particpate, people just banding together. Christine made an awesome sign which many people took pictures of.
Once we got home though thinking about the whole thing just makes me incredibly sad. I know everyone in this state is not a racist. Everything about this bill just feels so racist to me. I'm just so over it. |
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Can me and Cal still come over for some cupcakes and a tazing? |
There is no sane reason to send US or UN troops to Mexico.....to even suggest that speaks to hegemony, American Exceptionalism, white privilege, blah blah blah...just because we have a history of intervening, with military force, in other countries business is not an excuse for anything....Last I heard...........Mexico is not requesting military intervention from anyone.........
Stop. The. War. On. Drugs. Stop it NOW. Legalize all those drugs.......pot, white powder, brown/black powder/sticky stuff.....legalize all drugs........stop the CIA from secretly financing all those black ops by way of the drug trade of mostly opium and heroin..........no sane US citizen buys mexican dirt weed....we grow much better pot here....laughin.... As I said before........talking about the illegal drug trade and the violence around it, is THE red herring of immigration reform. Those things are not connected at all...... |
killing a whole bunch of folks on both sides IS NOT the answer...................
the drug trade across the southern border is a police issue.....the war on terror and the war on drugs needs to go away.....terrorism/drug&human trafficking is not a military battle............it's a police battle....... military troops and/or war is never ever ever the answer for drug/human trafficking and terrorism............these are matters best handled by law enforcement and courts.. |
I'm a little confused here..
Last time I checked, we had a Canadian border as well.. If for whatever reason, Obama suffered a brainfart and agreed to military enforcement, at least on our side of the Border with Mexico, what makes you think Drug pushers/human traffickers/Gun Smugglers won't just try a different Venue {if they're not already doing it}, Saskatchewan, Manitoba & British Columbia seem to have big enough borders to try stuff, no? Then of course, there's the Pacific Coast, East Coast, Gulf of Mexico coast... If you think they won't bother figuring how to smuggle things by Water, you need to spend some time on the East coast and west coast of Puerto Rico, Jamaica & Dominican Republic/Haiti... So, what you're suggesting is, Military presence at all these Borders? I think I've seen that somewhere... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone |
Please note, I never said we should go to war..I stated that in my post.I come from a military family with many years of service,so I know what war can do..its bad plane and simple.I hope that one day we will never have another one and someone will finlaly get that we need to have peaceful world.
I also said that if my family was in danger I would do what ever it takes to get them out of harms way.This new law is causeing lots of probs and will cause more.I hope its put down and our goverment steps up to the plate and fixes this issue.Do NOT ever put words in my mouth I didnt say.I just hope other states dont follow this example. |
I don't like political threads but today...
I gotta speak. What a heinous thing Brewer has done. I am definitely boycotting Arizona...was going out there this summer for a family reunion but now, I don't think so...My family and I are visibly hispanic, you think I'm going to take a chance with my kids? One more thing--- Come live in the Rio Grande Valley for a month, smack dab in the middle of the cartel wars. See what it's like. Then if you want you can say we don't need any militia presence here (US) to defend our borders. (We are US, too.) There isn't enough law enforcement for the crazy, horrible things going on out here...you have no idea...who's going to jump in? The minutemen left early on...guess even gun permits didn't give them balls to handle this...yes, I said balls... And don't get me started on legalizing drugs. That's just not an option. Look around. How many people do you know right now that use/abuse ANY illegal substance(s)? I bet you know several...we all do...you really want to make it easier for them to use? Really? Wow. Please dont' speak for us out here. Don't even take my word for it...come on down...okay, at least check out the AP stories in your local bigcity paper. Then look up www.TheMonitor.com and see on a daily basis the things that are really happening out here... I may be back... |
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People who use will use, and people who don't use won't use. Legalizing the stuff isn't going to make a spit of difference. Let the crap get legalized. Let the government standardize it. Make the drugs themselves safer (ie - not cut with something really scary) and go all gung-ho about harm reduction so people can use the drugs more "safely". Sell the shit for cheaper than the dealers do - there won't be dealers any more once it's no longer profitable. Hell, legalizing it would curb a world of drug trade related violence. It'd make things safer for everybody involved, and even for those who are uninvolved. Christ, TAX the stuff. |
If there is always a good side to every bad situation, then perhaps this latest "maverick " action on the part of AZ goverment will FORCE congress/ senate to take more immediate action toward the simplifying the legalization process.
I fear that until the Fed government steps up and handles the business of running this country properly, more states ( particularly border states) will try to take the reigns in their own hands and we can see how that is working. What we can do : http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/...ction_KEY=2481 |
Wow, the f word...hit a little close to home did I?
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The drugs will always be cut (wink* spoken like a a person with experience in street drugs)....whether you use or you deal, its not a good idea. People who use don't think about consequenses and people who sell drugs, don't care what those are...they are in it for the money...sad little people they are...they have no idea that fast money goes just as it comes and they don't see it...and if they do, they run to catch up to make more cuz greedy drug dealers always want more. They are no different than the government in my opinion. Lil Brother vs. Big Brother I don't know which is the more vile...think about that...if not for you, then at least for someone you care about. You may not think about it, but there are drugs dealer [kids age] in elementary schools and the like...and if you don't have kids, how about nieces and nephews...you really want to make street drugs readily available to them? Legalizing would only bring on another set of problems, each bigger than the one now...and world trade violence will give way to some other trade soon enough...trust me, we have more important things to think about like getting deported and having one hell of a time trying to get back to our homeland like Cheech in that "Born in East LA" movie he was in years ago... |
Re: Drug wars--and their effect on our borders...
http://www.themonitor.com/articles/m...es-grande.html Re: Wonderful Rick Perry and his great ideas about curbing the border crossings...spoken like a true beureaucrat... http://www.themonitor.com/articles/p...der-costs.html Re: Fancy cars in the valley... http://www.themonitor.com/articles/p...andy-cars.html Re: Home Sales http://www.themonitor.com/articles/s...les-style.html Here you go, this is an opportunity to share your opinion on how to handle the border violence here in South Texas...(how desperate is that?) http://www.themonitor.com/articles/s...der-input.html And now, I want to apologize to the OP for the derail of this thread...unfortunately, generalized statements about ALL the US Mexico borders carry their own regional needs.....so not one idea will fit all areas.... |
littleshug: maybe you'd like to a thread on the subject of drugs, the pros and cons of legalization/government regulation vs. increasing the police/build a bigger wall or whatever you'd like. :)
'boycott arizona' and SB1070 are about *racial profiling* nothing more, nothing less. SB1070 is about creating a fascist police-state, dividing further an already fractured community in the state of arizona. i understand that the topics of crime/drugs/economy/human trafficking are all *related* but they're frequently used to intentionally put blame on BROWN people which for some, justifies their underlying racist beliefs which leads to fascist laws like SB1070. "never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal." -MLK, Jr. |
OK.... feeling like I have to say something about the drug stuff. In thinking about this legislation and all of the aspects around immigration, what strikes me is how complex it is. When it gets into the drug/gang/cartel/arms and sex trafficking aspects and the violence... I know I need to hear what people deal with everyday in the areas hardest hit. And something I always see in these conversations is a very distinct difference between parents and non-parents. I might live a few miles from a city here in CA that has one of the highest rates of street murder among kids of color, but I don't get up every morning wondering if my kid will make it home from school. I didn't have this on me when I was raising my son even with the typical worries that parents have. A whole hell of a lot changes if you become a parent, no matter if biologically, via adoption, fostering, as a guardian or as a co-parent with a partner (Yup, making a point about all of the types of parenting!)
The fact of the matter is that illegal entry into the US (from both the northern and southern borders) involves drug and arms trafficking and then there are the sex trades that include children (all over the world). All of this is intertwined in immigration issues. Its just there. Frankly, even if I agree with legalization of substances, I am not naive enough to believe that this will actually curtail the violence born out of drug use. The fact of the matter is that people under the influence make stupid choices often leading to violence. Impairment is impairment. people that are intent upon doing harm to others will do so no matter what drugs are legal or illegal. Look at alcohol use ...... how many times do we hear I was drunk as an excuse for behavior? How many people are killed each year due to alcohol related situations? How many rapes, molestations, etc? And at certain ages, alcohol is legal to use. But this doesn't change its effects or its addiction factors. The crux of this whole matter isn't about drugs, its about racial profiling with idiotic, bigoted legislation like this one in AZ. A big part of this also has to do with big business and how it takes advantage of immigrant populations in order to increase profits- our labor laws. Directly related are the people smuggled into the US being treated like cattle and many dying awful deaths in an attempt to just find work. We are at a critical time concerning immigration reform and need to figure out what will work now and in the future. The AZ legislation could become the catalyst for reform, finally. To me, the notion that some assbites have that all of the illegal immigrants that are here (which include non-Latinos as well) should be deported (or jailed) will solve the problems makes me nuts. A lot of these idiots base their opinions on economic statistics and how this population is draining resources (which is not based upon accurate data or considers the actual economic contributions made by most of these folks). The idea that deportation of from 11 to 15 million people would be cost effective is lunacy!! Total waste of funds that should go to real reform constructs that benefit all. A focus on this as part of immigration reform based upon the economic arguments is nothing more than an attempt to cover-up racism, plain and simple. But we all know that anything that smacks of amnesty will impede any federal attempt to deal with these issues. This will even be fought against by many organizations representing large numbers of Latino (and other) citizens that are pissed that they went through the proper channels in coming to the US. This such a multi-faceted social and economic issue and is going to take a multi-faceted approach. Yet, it always gets bogged down and I think, is planted during election years! These mid-term elections coming up seem to me to be mainly about white anger and having a non-white president and the GOP taking back power in Congress. These jackasses aren’t thinking about the day to day lives and struggles the common citizenry are going through. I feel that it is so important to stay focused with the core issues when it comes to immigration reform. Otherwise it continues to spin into oblivion and never gets dealt with in any meaningful way. We have to start somewhere and get somewhere! |
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I apologized for my derail. I responded to someone who quoted only that part of my original post. Funny, I don't see you reply to his post to me. |
I agree that the legalization topic should be a new thread. So far we've managed to stay fairly drama free, and I'm hoping to keep it that way. There's been a lot of good information and insight so far.
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[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo3wrwqHOZw&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Kristol praises new AZ immigration law[/nomedia]
of course, the white guys cannot believe that a POC would be stopped due to their brown skin or Hispanic accent (with the one person who IS a POC tellling them, umm...no, they will!) |
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I am well aware of what is happening there. As for the legalization issue, I think I read somewhere that it should be discussed in a separate thread. I am game, anyone else? |
i am totally up for the discussion of decrimializing marijuana :)
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Go for it UofMfan!
*heads to other room to make popcorn and grab comfy spot on sofa* |
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Especially THIS white guy!! Quote:
Thanks for the link. My hope is that some concentrated rallies with people from within and outside of AZ will take place. I'm game. I think it is important for non-Latino people to join forces and articulate outrage. |
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AMERICAN arrested for driving while brown and not having the correct papers.
(sheriff joe is a disgusting piece of garbage that makes his own rules, constantly at odds with the POLICE department of phoenix. he's a criminal and his people chained a woman to her hospital bed, forcing her to GIVE BIRTH while in handcuffs.) |
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And yes, Sheriff Joe is all those things and more. |
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Link for MALDEF (Mexican American Legal Defense Fund)- http://www.maldef.org/ |
I heard an interesting spin of this bill on the radio. It seems AZ has tons and tons of newly registered Democratic Party folks and guess what...... they are almost all brown........
So if you want to intimidate new brown voters........hey just put a rent a cop in an uniform and station him/her outside the polling place to stare at all the brown folks waiting to vote or better yet put a real cop out there and have him/her check every brown person in line to see it they have their proper papers.......... The governor of AZ was the Secretary of State before she was moved up and apparently she tossed hundreds of brown folks off the voter rolls..........She is right in there with that Harris woman down in FL around the 2000 elections. |
I to live in Arizona
I to am a citizen of Arizona, Phoenix to be exact and I live in the Maryvale area. Those of you that live here know that Maryvale is predominately, about 80% Hispanic.
Please do not take what I am about to say and turn it into something else. There are parts of this bill that I agree with and other parts that I don’t. I have sat here out of fairness to all of you and read each and every post. No one has taken the time to post the actual bill on line for all to read. Those of you that want to take the time and read this bill you can find it at www.kpho.com. Do I think parts of this bill can and will result in racism, yes most likely it will, there are bad apples in all of the police departments but there is a true need for Arizona to enact some kind of immigration legislation. For example: [1]Arizona arrests and deports the largest amount of illegal immigrants in the United States with estimates rising to over 450,000 the past 10 years. Right now it is estimated that there are over 40,000 a year that pass over our border. [2]We spend over 300 million a year on just on medical, and social services for them. This does not count what we spend to educate their children. Our state budget is in crises and can’t keep supporting those that are not here legally. [3]The last 5 police officers here killed in the line of duty, were killed by illegal immigrants that had arrest warrants on them. One of our largest and most respected cattle ranchers was killed on his own property by an illegal immigrant that the police followed for over 20 miles until he passed back into Mexico. [4] The last 2 governors of this state have asked Presidents Bush and Obama repeatedly for help in securing our borders with out any response or action s coming from the White House. [5] Arizona is the leader in human trafficking. The immigrants pay “Coyotes”, smugglers, to bring them across the border, many ending up here in Phoenix at drop houses where they are then moved onto other states and through out the country. The vast majority are held against their will while their families are forced to pay a ransom for their freedom. Many of the women are raped, their only other choice is to escape or hope to be freed by one of the local police task forces. Many die in the vast desert that they must cross to enter. Some die in police chases while packed into trucks and other vehicles. Is this the price they must pay to enter?? So for me in closing, if you’re here legally and have gone through the process, or were born here then welcome you have nothing to fear. Every person in the world has basic human rights that is a given and they deserve to seek out and improve their lives. P.S. Sheriff Joe deserves a whole other thread all to himself, he has so run his course as sheriff here, yet we still put him in office time and time again. |
The law is unconstitutional. AZ is usurping the federal mandates. There is no justification for racial profiling, and the way to change things is thru Federal legislation. Yes joe is another thread altogether.
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i can only hope that someone is kind enough to deport me back to california before i run into another well-meaning and misguided individual that thinks mexicans are "stealing their jobs".
(tip: immigrants pay taxes and they also boost arizona's economy by a BILLION dollars each year.) |
hey there, your facts are one-sided. care to detail what immigrants do FOR arizona?
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bruhaha?
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