Originally Posted by Kobi (Post 236588)

Originally Posted by Kobi (Post 236588)

Originally Posted by Metropolis (Post 124924)

Top 10 Myths About Lesbians

1. LESBIANS HATE MEN

No, actually I found most lesbians love men, and have many men in their lives. Many have been married to men, though perhaps not in love they loved their spouse as friends. Lesbians also love their fathers and brothers, sons, and friends. There are some people who hate men, just as often it's straight women (even some men do). Actually to be frank, I've found in my experience more men hate lesbians, than the opposite (ironically these people are probably most readily identified by their statements about "lesbians hate men").

Some gay, straight women and men do hate the violence that men commit against women, and many have first hand experience with that, and the condition of the world and second class status of women under the current patriarchy. These things could result in hating men. But lesbians are more often said to be man-haters because it is not understood that females can love other females because they are naturally attracted to the spirituality, emotional make-up, and unique sexuality of other women. It's also used as a way to discredit the ability of women to live lives outside of the need for men. But just because you're not attracted to someone, doesn't mean you hate them, that's kindergarten thinking. People who hate men are called "Misandrists", not "lesbians".

2. LESBIANS WANT TO BE MEN

No, this one is especially attributed to "butch" lesbians. In reality people who are brave and brazen enough be a non-conformist against the hetero-normative expectations of sexual orientation are also more prone to non-comformative behaviors in social sexual dress codes. Many in this choose to dress in more androgynous or more masculine ways that make them feel comfortable in who they are. In reality many heterosexual people dress in more non-conformative ways as well. People who's minds are the opposite sex of their body are called Transsexuals, not lesbians.

3. LESBIANS SHOULDN'T WORK WITH CHILDREN

Lesbians should work with children. Perhaps the next generations could learn from the get-go what normal, loving, caring everyday people we all are no matter our sexual orientation. Lesbians aren't interested in children sexually, that is called a Pedophile, and 98% of them are straight men abusing young girls.


4. LESBIANISM IS OK, AS LONG AS THEY KEEP QUIET AND KEEP IT OUT OF SIGHT

Ahhhhhhh no, lesbians are A-ok all around. Homosexuality is not abnormal, it is not a "human deviation", it is found regularly in nature in animals of all species. What's not ok is discrimination and violence against them because of their visibility, what abnormal is lobotomy's and shock treatments that were given to people because they fell in love with someone that wasn't the opposite sex. It's not ok to deny housing, jobs, hospital visitation of dying spouses, it's not ok to kill, rape and beat people because of their sexual orientation... maybe if all that stopped you'd get your wish and we'd be more quiet.

5. ALL LESBIANS ARE JUST ANGRY FEMINISTS

Not all lesbians are feminist, there are some lesbians are in the feminist movement in an effort to further the rights of all women lesbian or not. The feminist movement has greatly improved the lives of all queer females and straight women alike. Lesbians who are feminists have also been a huge part and greatly furthered the LGQBTI movement for all homosexuals and trans persons as well. It's called fighting for equal rights for everyone... not we want more than you... we want the same as you. If you're experiencing "angry lesbian feminists" perhaps they're just mad at you for calling them that or something else you did.

6. LESBIANS HAVE PENIS ENVY.

First of all sexuality and sexual orientation is about the person and not a sex organ. A person may desire the experience of penetration or giving another that experience through the use of sexual toys. Second not all dildos are penis replica's, some are some aren't. I know it may be difficult to comprehend but there is more to sexual orientation than fixation on genitals, and really most lesbians aren't thinking about a lot about penis's, that's probably important to try to remember.

7. LESBIANS WHO LOVE BUTCH LESBIANS SHOULD JUST FIND A MAN.

This is an easy one, one word... L-E-S-B-I-A-N. But to be even clearer, butch lesbians aren't men... wait (checks and cleans my spectacles and looks again) nope, still not men. With that I'll leave you with one more deep sobering thought to ponder...L-E-S-B-I-A-N

8. LESBIANS ARE UGLY WOMEN WHO CAN'T FIND MEN

Nope! Lesbians are women with all different types of physical characteristics, just- like- any- other- group- within- the- human- sexes. Blond, brunette, red heads, raven haired, short, tall, fat, skinny, long haired, short haired women of all colors and races that simply don't desire men. Again, many lesbians have been married and had boyfriends. If it was about being ugly, there are some of ugly men out there to pair up and not so hard to find that anyone would need to change sexual orientation over it.

9. LESBIANS ARE OUT TO CONVERT YOUNG GIRLS (RECRUITING)
Lesbians are not interested in conversion or force. As lesbians they know well the feeling of having another's ideas of sexuality force fed to them. They are acutely and especially aware sexual orientation isn't something somebody can talk you into. There is no "lesbian dust" we sprinkle on people... get real (but if there was I'd throw it on you).

10. LESBIANS JUST HAVEN"T FOUND THE RIGHT MAN YET

Really, no, some haven't found the right woman yet, and if they haven't found the right man it's because there isn't one... the important thing to remember here is, they're gay, so stop hitting on them stupid.

---

Lesbians and Dykes (I prefer "Big Ol' Damn Dyke" if you're name calling, thank you) often do have an agenda. I know, see you were right, we want something. I found most of us seem for the most part hell bent on finding a life partner, someone to share the daily grind with, to love, laugh and cry with. Some would like a family, a home and a dog or cat. They may also seek community... not always successfully.

And yes, they also seem to often care about equal rights for themselves and their families, and sometimes just want to be safe.

But if you find all this lacking, and want to hear me say something really awful about lesbians... there is this.

Lesbians in South Africa today are being murdered and raped daily by men trying to "cure" them of their sexuality. The sexual attacks are called "corrective rape" of which 10 new cases are reported each week. Of the men who are brought to trial, only 1 in 25 will be convicted.

Though it's far away, and an extreme example, this is not something that's isolated and far away. Lesbians are raped, beaten and killed for there sexuality on every continent. If you Google "lesbian raped" you'll receive over 40,000 hits... admittedly these are not all real cases... many are ads for porn videos depicting lesbians being raped. Yeah I know, not so funny.

Originally Posted by Kobi (Post 237520)

Originally Posted by Kobi (Post 237520)

Originally Posted by Daywalker (Post 236565)

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme (Post 237620)

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme (Post 237620)

Originally Posted by Kobi (Post 237629)

Originally Posted by InfiniteFemme (Post 237631)

Originally Posted by LipstickLola (Post 237638)

Originally Posted by Kobi (Post 237642)

Originally Posted by Rope (Post 237392)

Now, now Isadora...you know if a glow in the dark dolphin was comin' at you, you'd jump out of bed <g>.

Originally Posted by Rope (Post 232573)

That is why I have always found a difference between lesbians and butch/femme. In my unscientific surveying, butch/femme has less bed death because we tend to have elements of sexuality in our identity. It's a more cock centric vs. dildo centric identification--butch cock that is.

I don't identify as a lesbian, I identify as a butch. I feel I am on the male side of butch and prefer 'hy' rather than she as a pronoun, it's not much deeper of an identification than that. That said, no, I do not want to be a man as some would think that myth goes--the more masculine the butch, the more they want to be a man.

Rope--

Originally Posted by Metropolis (Post 244777)

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?:blink:

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. ;) I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.

Originally Posted by Metropolis (Post 244777)

Seems you are saying if there's not a "cock" mentality involved in human sexual interactions bed death is sure to follow. Or w/o cock there's no elements of "sexuality".

REALLY?:blink:

Guess what... sex doesn't just go tits up when there's not a cock involved. ;) I'm not going to detail my sex life on a public forum, but to say it is well rounded... yes... but doesn't solely depend on a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g in particular but my love and desire for my gal.

(not directed at you Rope) These types of inferences, whether it be male=masculine... butches have to have "butch cuts" (hair)... female butches are "butch lite"... all the lesbian myths, etc. etc. etc. day in and day out is one of the reasons I don't frequent many BF places anymore.... I simply get so effin' tired of people telling others (and me) what they say, do, look like and identify as means.

I don't need to be pumped up and I don't need to be cut down and I'm deeper and more 3 dimensional than all these boxes. My internal make-up is where the dominant part of my masculinity lay, more than existing in say, my hairstyle. It's always been about my insides. My walk, talk and emotional aura... and my masculinity it's female born and that doesn't make it less powerful or dominant in my personality.

Further... my feminine part, (yes feminine) my female "essence" is not a pink bow on my unders... , it's soft soulful entwined connect w/ other females... and it's a black satin fiery blast if pushed too hard... there's nothing pink, giggly or gushy about it.

Ya know, thinking, it's no different from the real world has often been to femmes, butches and the like, placing preconceived bs expectation or how XYZ has to look act and be to be accepted. It's really to bad that we too often do that to our own.

Originally Posted by AtLastHome (Post 236527)

I understand why and how this sets you off- I was not really intending what I think you believe.

For the record- I enjoy it all and am a lesbian of the b-F variety. I get tired, however, of how we often put things in narrow contexts sexually. I do personally get tired of the word cock and it brings some very heteronormative things up for me. My main problem was with touting butch cock- or any cock- with lesbian bed death. I hate the phrase lesbian bed death too- it is belittling and I think (especially in most of this conversation), goes to the never ending comparison between lesbian and straight sex. Ie., all you need is a good lay- meaning a man with an attached penis plunged into your vagina.

No, my use of accessory items (and it doesn't stop with dildoes- they are not the only “toys“ around!), has nothing to do with cocks! Never has, never will. Anything I nickname, in fact has a clit as part of it. It is just important to me to own my being a woman and honoring the wonder of female sexual anatomy. Maybe because of the era I am from in which women were referred to as such things as frigid, non-sexual, not even supposed to be sexual beings, bad if they did, too good, if they didn't, shouldn't play sports because we might hurt our female body parts, kept from certain professions and jobs... on and on- I am just sensitive about this stuff. But, honestly, I my "toys" are of the feminine because of how I have integrated gender-bending in my life. I choose to "bend" to the female/woman side of the equation because there has been so much taken from me in the past for being a woman- and a masculine woman. I also am tired of the lesbian-phobia I see so much of on B-F sites (it is much less so on the Planet, however). It bothers and hurts me as a woman and a butch.


I absolutely apologize to you or anyone else if I offended you. I really was not intending this. I do have strong feelings about the female as well as lesbian sex. I know I can react differently to some of this stuff, but, to not be who I am as a butch woman and how I relate to sexuality as a person just isn’t something I can over look. But, I will try to use different wording if I return to the Planet in the future.

I have no personal negative judgement of how everyone else sees this- or what terms they want to use. I especially think there could be some sensitive things that trans folks could have around this.

Originally Posted by AtLastHome (Post 234885)

Yup... and although most people don't want to face it, we do slow down as we age and sex is included in the slow down (so is a wonderful history of creativity). Plus, medications/disability can have an effect on libido. Although, I have to add that "seniors" are far more sexually active than "myth" dictates as well!! Ut, Oh, I feel an attack of ageism and able-body privilege (with coming over me..

And there are many more "measures" of sexual activity than penis-to-vagina methods. The fact is butch/femme cock follows a very straight, heterosexual mode of sexually interpretation. Which is why I personally use accessorize, accessory for butch cock for myself. And toy as well (although not much anymore). No, cock doesn't set me off into defensive feminist mode- I just figure we all have our own terms we prefer. And if a femme I am intimate with wants to call it a cock, I don't care! Our mutual pleasure and satisfaction is what counts

Although, I am fond of “Where’s the toy box, Babe, I want to pick something out?” Oh, Geez, I am not dominant enough, either, I bet. I get off on her (a femme) making decisions around sex! Damn, there goes that butch card, again. Sorry, I do tire of so damn many of the sexual parameters we seem to have.

Oye! Maybe my feelings have something to do with raising a heterosexual male through the teenage years… believe me, I really got tired of cock-centricity… dunno… maybe we should have a poll on this and see what other parents of male kid would say- with the inclusion of a trans related item… who knows….

I am not trying to be snarky, I really am trying to infuse humor into this conversation. When I am able to laugh at myself, I end up seeing things much more clearly, plus I stop taking myself so seriously which calms me down…. I really don’t have a problem with whatever and however anyone wants to embrace (or not) butch-cock or just plain cock. Just please don’t judge my own personal thoughts about it or give me another identifier to deal with! I am as much lesbian as I am butch.

Originally Posted by BullDog (Post 274909)

That if you are a stone butch or stone femme you are not a lesbian. That just gets the big :| from me. Not all stone butches and stone femmes are lesbians, but there are plenty that are. There is no conflict.

On a related but more general topic many people, including many butches and femmes, seem to think lesbian sex is narrow in scope when in fact lesbians have sex in as many ways, shapes and forms as any type of person. Kinky, vanilla, stone etc. Just because there usually is not a male involved (although at times there are) doesn't make lesbian sex or sexuality limited or narrow or leave a bunch of things out or make us less sexually fulfilled, adventurous, etc.

Originally Posted by Starbuck (Post 242874)