True. Not to make it sound like I think I am stupid. But, I am uneducated about a great many things. But, that is becomming a thing of the past as well. I have almost finished my AA in Business, loving that btw. But, I am also taking the time to learn about my own experiences and how I have been shaped by them. Good or bad. Introspective, retrospective, whatever. It has been a freeing experience especially in my inner view. While I still have fits of anger, lash out sometimes and express my "toolness", I do see marked improvement. Nothing at all wrong with that.

I often feel the same way. Or fear that it will be so. Especially if I'm speaking from my heart or about something I'm passionate about. There are lots of times when I realize after the fact that I could have said something better, more succinctly, but I have to hope that the readers will know my intent.

OMG. Bob is dreaming. He is barking in his sleep. Wiggling around too. Punk ass.

Anyhow, I cannot tell you how much I hate the fact that discussing things online can lead to hurting someone without meaning to. Tone or what you THINK is someone's tone is totally subjective. I hate the fact that you cannot see a person's eyes when you are speaking with them. It is a difficult thing to deal with sometimes. We have all had occasion to be offended by someone. They may or may not have meant anything by what was written. For me it is all about how much coffee I have in my tank that many times is the catalyst of if I feel hurt by something. rofl Not enough and I am just pissed. There, I've said it. I am ruled by the bean.

Can i ask some advice here?? When is appropriate to tell some that you are stone?? early in the relationship or wait until you get to know them better??

every time I enter this discussion my head feels like a pin ball machine.

for me its a type of dynamic I share with a stone butch. I dont want to touch hym/her in a feminine way yet I want to be touched that way. But really isnt this a butch-femme dynamic in a way? Maybe with a layer of stone?

but if my stone butch rolled over and asked me to fuck them them sideways I'd do it. It might not rock my world or float my boat but as a partner I'm more then happy to provide. :)

I like to tell woman I am dating right up front, because being with a stone isn't for everyone.

I prefer this conversation when its about to get intimate as far as connected chemistry goes. I would not have it just meeting someone. In fact I'm put off, turned off when a new interaction, getting to know someone becomes too sexual. If I'm interested, feelings mutual then before we proceed we do need that talk.

Ok, all good advice thanks! But surely, now call me old fashioned, people should get to know each other slowly, and let things develope. Sexual preferences are not what early dating conversation should be about??

I agree completly

Chris, I think that the type of "date" or encounter determines the circumstances. If one is into bdsm, IMO only, one explores the boundaries and limitations of the other as prelude to possible play. For *me*, this would mean that I divulge my stone id. Perhaps this is not necessary in that I am a Dominant, but I always want to be clear, up front, and understood about My boundaries. I expect my "date" to do the same, and will ask pointed questions about hers. For me, it is not only understanding her medical condition/s or play preferences/aversions. It is deeper than that. Then again, I am speaking of something outside of a "vanilla" experience (I don't know that I like that term. It feels derogatory, yet it is nearly universally understood ...) and my response might not be appropriate for discussion here with respect to your question.

Having said this, in a "vanilla" situation, a date, depending upon the energy that transpires between us, my disclosure as stone would come forth if I felt there was something developing between us. I can almost "smell" the other's desire ... Otherwise, if it "feels" more like friendship material instead of something more, I don't see any reason to discuss this with her. I have a lot of femme friends. Eventually, the topic comes up ... but not because it needs to be discussed ... it is more the level of friendship. The level of sharing, which brings this up during the deep exchanges between two close friends.

Hmmm. :seeingstars: I may have muddied the waters here! :bolt:

I beleive it should be shared once you know the relatiosnhip is heading to a level of romance and sex.


Vanilla, It feels derogatory, yet it is nearly universally understood ..

I agree the tern Vanilla has always sound derogatory to me.. I am stone and consider myself exciting with over flowing passion not afraid to express myself. Vanilla sounds borrowing and limited. but I guess not being part of the BDSM community I would be called Vanilla.

I agree with you completely, Wax. (That is, except that I think vanilla is as fine a flavor as any other, and not at all derogatory.) When I'm at a BDSM party and flirting with a potential playmate I state my boundaries right up front. That includes my stonefemme boundaries if it seems as if the play we're negotiating could lead to or include sex.

When I'm in a less sexually explicit environment I disclose the information as early as is polite, and I only do so on a need-to-know basis. Stone boundaries aren't the only ones I state up-front. I'm also non-monogamous, and I make sure that information comes up early on, too. Unfortunately for me, that info acts as really effective 'butch-repellent', so I can skip to the disappointment stage before I start to get emotionally involved. Sigh.

For me saying that I am stone is not sexualizing a conversation or discussing sexual preferences. To me, sexual preferences are: Do you like vibrators?

That isn't similar to stone. Stone is: I do not allow someone to touch my genitals or chest. Are you interested in touching your partner in those areas? If the answer is yes, then I would not be able to meet that person's needs sexually. Subsequently, it would make no sense for us to date....why begin the process if it can not go anywhere?

I agree 100% Dapper.

In the real world there are many types of “engagements” we can have. There are those that involve an unplanned flirtation that leads to a mutually rewarding though relatively brief physical encounter- where having a discussion concerning the intricacies of stone would be as inappropriate as exchanging phone numbers.

In the same vein, if someone had a regularly planned “date” where the relationship didn’t exist outside of the designated time and place, again the need to discuss stone may be considered a poor use of the allotted time.

Both of these examples assume that the stone is also a Top, or Dominant in some way and is “leading’ the encounter, if this is not the case then I would presume that the stone would need to be very explicit before anything physical occurred.

However, as both a Dom and a Top, I personally believe that in situations other than the two just given that stone needs to enter the conversation earlier rather than later.

Perhaps I am unique in my thinking but as a stone, when in a committed and monogamous relationship, concern is always “am I depriving her of something that she will eventually need/want?” so before heading even close to that direction I need to have the discussion, I need to know whether I’m simply being accommodated or whether it is actually her preference.

For me, this is a very significant point. I do not want to date someone who is "ok" with me being Stone or can "give up" being able to touch someone's chest. I want to be with someone who does not want to touch my chest. I don't want someone to give up their desires for me. I want to BE their desire.

to me this is a yes and no answer to your ?
sexual conversation should be at the bottom of the list of getting to know you stuff... and i can agree to letting things develope, with some old fashion dating.. :)
but ...... its nice to know up front , that should a heated passionate moment should occur.... I want to know ahead of time , what your boundries are and know how to please you on ways that you feel comfortable with.
If your open to anything.... i want to know that
if you have bounderies I want to know that ...... and not make a mistake or find out down the road at some point that we are NOT compatable in area's we enjoy and how we are to enjoy giving as well as recieving.
I have dated stone and non stones...... and wel im sure missing that stone butch energy, so much. *sigh*
... just my 2 cents..

I date butches. I never assume anything when it comes to sex. Honestly sweetie in my 20 years dating butches none of them came and told me how they wanted to be touched. I always ask when I feel we are moving in that direction.

You're a cutie! How did I miss you and just a state away! Should you ever want to interact with an older woman I hope you'll look me up.

Thank your for this post.



This has been my experience. I identified as "stone butch" for 14 years, through two relationships, then this happened:


Yep, that's what happened to me alright. My partner and I rolled with it and came out in a new place, together, and individually.


Ah, the hierarchy of butch-ness.... Agreed, that is a very common definition. I subscribed to it myself for many years.

I guess I'm an exception to that definition (assumption?). I look, behave, live, am taken for, butcher than butch, but I no longer ID as stone.

(I suspect there are a great many more butches like me than is commonly thought.)



But, back to this:

This is precisely what happened to me. Imagine my surprise ! :blink:


But not just stone butches - all butches. Oh yeah, and femmes, too.

Hierarchies suck.

Good afternoon Cuddly!

Just got back from a bad date where the woman I was with told me that being with someone "like me" aka a stone made her feel like she wasn't a lesbian anymore, I took her lesbian identity and made her feel straight?!?!

I completely understand that everyone has their opinion, but I clearly told her who I was waaaayyy before we started dating.

I just want to thank the femme woman out there who love and appreciate us stone butches.

I'm sorry this happened. At some point you will find a woman who WANTS this in her butch.

That is the difference, I think, and I mentioned it earlier. I would only want to be with a woman who DESIRED a butch like myself, not one that is "ok" with me being stone.

I want that part of me to be something she prefers in a partner, not something she "accepts" in a partner.

I think she did think I would change....so obviously she didn't truly understand what a stone butch is.


I agree Dapper, you are right. I definitely want someone who "accepts" me for being stone not who is "ok" with it. I appreciate the support


Ahhh Cuddly you are such a sweetie, thank you for the support. :flowers:

It’s who we are, and sexually it’s a part of the whole. I don’t think that some realize that when they ask for a part of us to change- that it cant happen without it altering everything else about us. It’s hard to hear, to hear that something about the way we are is in someway depriving or diminishing some one we care about. I’ve stood in your shoes, and I’ve tried to tolerate, tried to make this “one” concession. I’ve allowed myself to believe that I am somehow less than, that it is some kind of hurdle that I have to jump, that if I wanted a woman in my bed that ‘lesbian – take it in turns” sex was part of the deal.

I’ve been with the women who claim that they are attracted to the energy, to the hardness, to an edginess, a confidence, to something they say seems a little remote, a little self-contained- and then in a short period of time I’ve experienced those same women talk of wanting to expose the underbelly, of seeking some compliance and pliability, of wanting to experience the girl behind the Butch. It’s as though there is a belief that a Stone Butch is simply a façade, a layer of clothing, that gets worn and removed at will, but what many don’t understand is that it is not a veneer - so when it is removed- there is nothing of our true selves left.

I have attempted to accommodate a sex as they have “always done it”- and as a consequence have had to accept the lack of sexual gratification, but more importantly suffered from a sense of “loosing myself” because of it.

And then I discovered a stone Femme, and suddenly knew what it was like to fly high.

Neither of you are wrong or imperfect, but like most things in life we need to find our compliment, because just as a mismatch can cause us to loose ourselves, the right one can help us take air. I wish you well.

myself as a stone femme
 

i want to speak about myself as a stone femme. in a very early post on this thread, i read a definition of a stone femme as either receiving, not giving, or not wanting to be touched sexually in certain ways. neither of these definitions apply to me! when i hear of stone femmes as "receiving, not giving", i really get angry! when with a stone butch, i AM giving just as much as i am receiving, only in a different way. first of all, let me say that in the past i have dated almost exclusively stone/tg/FtM butches. i go for that type of energy exchange. when with a Stone Butch, whether tg or not, i feel an exhilaration just to be with hym. i feel proud to be seen by hys side in public- a "this is who i am, this is who WE are"! this pulls at the inmost part of my femininity, my femme-ness. sexually, i adore being w/a stone butch. when i give myself to hym, it is as a precious gift, and the true ones know this and treat me as such. but this giving is NOT a passive "just lay there"! in my giving myself and getting hys energy, hys passion, hys tenderness, i give back mine in return. perhaps more subtly and in different ways than w/a non-stone butch. for example, i would never touch a stone butch in a feminizing way, and i find out beforehand where hys boundaries are. but i move with hys rhythm, i run my hands down hys back and body where appropriate, i wrap my legs around hym...and GO with hym! hys taking/my receiving go back and forth in a yin-yang flow that is the essence of the stone dance. i WANT hys taking me as hys gift. the energy is equal in quality but not in means. i don't want to touch a butch like hy touches me. (one BIG reason i'm a femme and a stone/transensual femme.) i am not a lipstick lesbian-i am a FEMME.
i hope that this makes some sense and helps put an end to the canard that stone femmes just receive. of course, this is just one queer stone femme's perspective. it is my truth.
namaste,
DamselFly
i apologize for so many caps, but this is a subject that i get very passionate about!

:clap: :clap::clap::clap::clap:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

This is what I think and it can apply to almost anyone.

I have a 3 month rule. No matter what I don't have sex until that time passes. Trust me, I'm VERY open minded but I also view sex as sacred and the one final thing that truly connects us. I also want to know that the time I'm investing in pursuing a relationship isn't wasted. Worse case we remain excellent friends. If the can't communicate well or they can't be honest about their feelings its not going to work- end of story. There is no way in hell you'll understand this about anyone coming out of the gate. People talk a lot of shit especially when trying to impress someone. If you can't be with one another, regardless if your B-F, stone, trans whatever, in common space, without the complexity of sex then you've never survive a relationship. I have a real problem with someone who exits at the first sign of conflict so i want to know this FIRST before I ever drop my panties.

If you are remotely interested then spend time with that person. If you're honest, real and basically good people you will begin to forage a friendship. Any chemistry thats there should naturally balance itself because what i have found that the rules changes sometimes depending who you're with. Never say never. I mean I don't want to make love to a butch the way hy does me- nope, not my thing BUT there may be an exception based on the human connection and dynamic WE feel together. If we spend time together, as friends we will naturally learn to respect each other's space. If it evolves into hot wonderful sex PERFECT! If not it just wasn't meant to be.

I don't misrepresent myself I just don't feel the need to tell a friend how I fuck. After many many moons I've also learned that there may be new horizons I may climb. I'd like to keep my options open. I once dated a little trans-boy much younger then I. We started as friends and somehow we established an interesting dynamic that neither one of us had ever even thought about before. It came out of nowhere one day and the most amazing thing is that we remained friends with that special chemistry. I've never had this with anyone before so I never bottom line anything. lol Ultimately I am seeking a life partner and there are so many OTHER factors that come into play other than sex. These all must be present BEFORE anything else and if sex seals the deal off we go into the sunset!

I have to agreee with you DomnNC. I define myself as Stone but as I have read I find myself as being confussed. For myself, when I am with that special woman, When we are tgether in the bedroom, I get off by getting her off by me penertrating her. I like being touched but not penertation at all, I feel as if I were born in the wrong body, I wear mens clothing, boxers, eveything....I pack all the time so what would you classify me if not a stoner... the only thing I see if anything would be the touching... I need help//\\

just dropping by....
 

it is good to know that are T/those who understand how i feel!
just dropping by to say hello to all the B/butches and femmes in this thread. i want to say that i like reading E/everyone's post and POV. very interesting. thank Y/you, everyone, for them. i'm so glad to have this thread!
damselfly :moonstars: