Unfortunately, since you don't truly know me your perception of me is made via words in a screen. People that DO truly know me know that;
1. I am not chauvinistic.
2. I have HUGE respect for women.
3. I'm working on my communication skills, coupled with the fact that I seriously hate texting, but enjoy a good conversation, I'm finding this medium to be challenging.

I am sorry for your twitching.

snow referred steph to this thread:
Spouses/Partners of Transmen and transwomen... in the trans zone.
i got confused because i didn't think the thread was specifically about heteronormative relationships.

it's cool, we cleared up the confusion. (i think.) :D

I think she was thinking of the "spouses/partners of transmen and transwomen" thread that stephmit also started.

Thanks Kobi, for pulling this information together.

I was poking around online last week and reading about the carry-over-threshold tradition, and learned that in addition to what you share above, the bride was carried because it was believed that if a bride tripped walking over the wheat thresh people kept at the door to minimize mud tracking, bad spirits would seize the moment to enter the home.

Apparently no one was worried about the groom tripping, or providing somehow, in the process of tripping, a way for evil spirits to take advantage as they seek access to a home or family or group of people.

A theme in many of these traditions is that women are weak links, among humans; that women are more vulnerable to doing and abetting evil. It's a misogynist view of women and prevalent in a lot of cultures.

**********

Other people have said this but I want to add that what I would do if I were getting married is pick and choose from all the traditions and go with whichever ones resonate for us or which we can re-invent, to fit my and my partner's values.

I didn't start that thread! I did post in it though. (once)

Maybe, Princess Belle, couples can apply their own meaning to traditions like carrying the bride over the threshold, and make them "new" in that way.

You know, they use that term "the new classic" in advertising—I think we have the freedom, well even straight people have the freedom, to reinvent traditions as our own.

Carrying someone over the threshold could be, "We will honor our different strengths. Your muscles carried me over the threshold but my salary got us the room. We'll pool our resources and together make a great team."

I bet so many thoughtful couples are already doing that; carefully considering the meaning behind what they're doing and taking a conscious role in shaping it. I agree, it would be interested to hear about.

I thought the threshold thing had to do with doors being bad luck. If she stepped on it or fell, then the marriage would be cursed. Or something like that.

Trivia i googled
 

Tying The Knot

The expression "tie the knot" comes from Roman times when the bride wore a girdle that was tied in knots which the groom had the fun of untying.

Fun! I could that being made contemporary by creative couples, for sure.

Dear Tony,

I know you did not intend to offend anyone and were trying to be funny, but as a woman I feel extremely patronized by this post.

Sincerely,
Scout

Dear Scout,
My deepest apologies. Yes, I was trying ( unsuccessfully) to be funny. Certainly did not mean to patronize or upset anyone. If someone can tell me how to remove the post, I will gladly do so.
Again, sorry.

My Dad siad it all to us in his speech " I came here today with one wonderful daughter and now I have two" then he welcomed Desd to our family

Wow. Having just endured two years of a mother-in-law who hated me with a white-hot hate that poisoned every family gathering for me and finally resulted in me withdrawing from my partner's family completely—which means, of course, she won—I can only say, your post made me get a little weepy.

I think it is awesome that Steph's future father-in-law welcomed her into the family and that Bard & Desd has support from the fathers as well.

The end of my dad's toast "I wish them many years of happiness, and many children.. that they must raise themselves!"

I have yet to upload my father-in-law's speech.. I think I have it somewhere :)

Steph, hope your wedding is hella fun! This is how my family is, LOL


Good luck! :jester: As you see, I suck at the Cha Cha!

Permission...?

Ummm hmmm... nope, this isn't me. If I were to "technically" get married, which I really don't foresee happening, I would not ask for permission. Spritz and I have had discussions about our mothers, in length, to know that they are one in the same and with knowing THAT... there really isn't a need IMHO to irritate her with this sort of thing. I think I would, over time, be accepted as Spritz's mate and the same would go for her with my mother... but I know my mom wouldn't appreciate it, if the tables were turned, so I am going to assume that her mother wouldn't either.

I asked her 2 sons who were 11 and 7 at the time...

I did ask Goose who was 7 she was all for it as she loves Desd so much and She loves her NEW Grandparents

I mis-read this at first (early morning here) and thought you'd asked for a girl's hand in marriage when you were aged 7. Reminded me of the first time I asked a girl to marry me - I was either 4 or 5. She said yes, but that we should wait until we were grown up. She then gave me a peck on the cheek and we went back to making daisy chains.


On the underlying issue of permission to marry. I strongly embrace family / extended family. The various twists and turns my life has taken in recent years have strengthened this feeling.

However, I wouldn't ask permission from the parents of my partner as I would view it as nothing more than ceremony or pretence as, if for whatever reason they refused "permission", I'd proceed with the marriage anyway if both my partner & I wanted that.

That said, given my sense of family, I'd very much want my partner's parents to be happy wig their daughter's choice of partner and to believe that I would do right by her, loving her with my heart and soul.

Children, if under the age of 18, are an extremely important part of the equation. Again, I wouldn't ask their permission but, assuming that they were living with my partner, their happiness and support of the marriage would be something approaching a pre-requisite for me. They wouldn't have a veto, per se, but I couldn't discount their feelings in a way that I could of unsupportive prospective in-laws.

Generally, I view the whole "permission to marry" concept as outdated and, similarly to most marriage rituals, it doesn't sit easy with me. I'm conservative and a traditionalist and I embrace many rituals and practices that would be viewed by moat in today's world as relics of the past. However, the marriage ones are just a complete turn off for me ..... Not certain why this is but I'be seen too many friends get married for the wedding, the big day and he excitement + expectation, often overlooking what the marriage is actually about which, in my view, is the expression of a life-long commitment to a partner, for better or worse.

It would never occur to me to ask a prospective partner's parents for her "hand."

If someone asked my parents for permission to marry me, my father would come out with some sort of wise-crack along the lines of, "Hallelujah - great to finally get Ciaran off our hands after decades of eating us out of house and home. Oh, and if you are ever stupid enough to lend Ciaran any money, write it off as you'll never see it again."

I should add that my dad is my best friend who warmly embraces my partners, respecting my decisions in this regard. In fact, my parents are hosting one of my exes for a week this coming Christmas.

For me it's not about seeking permission but instead a blessing. In the past it was the mother that was approached . If i was to do it again with my current love it would be her mother also and maybe her step dad. Her bio father is deceased. She wouldn't ask my parents either or my gram that raised me because my mom and gram are deceased and my father is unknown to me. I would have probably told my family myself and with her presence like in the past i did.


I think it was Snow Who started a good thread about stereotypes of butches, femmes, trans, etc.. Anyone have the link? :)

Sorry
 

My apologies. I just saw this. I was not being disrespectful. I was only trying to be funny. It was actually a line I saw on one of those Facebook postcard things. Again, no disrespect intended.

Tony

Kudos to you for apologising. That takes guts.

That said, you've just admitted taking a comment from one of those irritating facebook picture posts and using it as your own.

That's sad. I've read enough of your posts to know you're an articulate individual with a reasonable grasp of language. I'd respectfully suggest limiting the replication of inane facebook comments in your own posts.