This guy really showed them ,didn't he?

Leaving his wife and daughter with absolutely nothing, I guess he showed them too.

He will be remembered as the nutcase who flew into the IRS building in Austin and left his family with zilch.
Nothing more.

Similar to the nut who bulldozed his house so the bank would not get it.
(of course he didn't harm anyone so it really does not compare except in terms of the mentality)
Cry baby men who cant endure reality.
Pathetic losers if you ask me.
Poor baby ,he was surely gonna lose his plane.
How grandiose must his thinking have been to think his pound would do a fuckin thing?

The IRS has this little thing called a payment plan ( lucky for me)
Of course I hated them for having to pay all that money but
mostly I hated myself for getting myself in that mess to begin with.

I feel awful for his family and the innocent victims.

deranged? yes
hero ? as far from that as you can get in my book

Aren't we chipper?

Never called him a hero, but you apparently are one of those "I'll shh and pay the unlawful taxes, lordy lordy don't haul me away" types, so I won't continue arguing.

Hurts getting fucked by the iron dildo of a government.

How any of you can condone this act of violence in any way, shape or form is ridiculous.

And frankly a little scary.

Yeah....how bout my question of if you think what he did was ok because he was mad at the gov't?

pft...Here we go.

I never said I condone his behavior. Did I?...No,No I did not. Easy on the trigger tiger ;)

I said look at the problem behind this. Why did he do this? Once again, i'll stop right there.

He probably had a psychotic reaction to some pharmaceutical they'll pull off the market in a year or two.
Glad he didn't kill more people.

Doesn't matter WHY he did it at all. No matter what the reason......still wrong.

And what your government is doing to us isn't wrong? People are going to what they are going to do. I don't condone this behavior at all. Maybe people would not resort to this behavior if they were not afraid of a government that should be afraid of it's people.

I'm not saying what the gov't does is right or wrong. That's not the issue. The issue is some deranged asshole trying to kill innocent people. I don't give a tiny rat's ass why he did it.
These people should not have to die because of HIS issues.

*Edit*
Kthnxbai

I presume you are talking to me.

No , I assure you I am far from chipper ,ever.(although I love the word)

Color me a wus for wanting to have a house and good credit because I paid them?
Would it be the more intelligent choice to end up in prison and/or have a hefty tax lien
haunting me the rest of my life?

^ Exactly my point. See what I ment about the "dur" effect. WHY are we afraid of the IRS, prison, taxes?

Anyone care to think about that yet?

*Edit*
blahblahblahkglsdfkgj..

Terrorism?
 

Common Traits of Performance Murderers
 

Excerpted from Seven Deadly Traits by Dave Cullen@ Slate:

" I spoke with several experts in mass murder Thursday, and we identified seven deadly traits of impending danger in Stack's manifesto.

Narcissism/egocentricity: Joseph Stack ended his life with a supreme act of narcissism, and that quality leaps out of every line of his rationalization. It's all about him. Through 30 years of his torture, "thieves, liars and self-serving scumbags" in Congress continually targeted Stack personally. The IRS and his own accountant joined in to make him their personal whipping boy. When the Senate redrew the tax code in 1986, "they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d)," Stack writes.

Grandiosity: Stack's grievances are wildly overblown and his swipes at powerful institutions grand and hyperbolic: "the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church . . . monsters of organized religion," "thugs and plunderers" in corporate boardrooms driven by "gluttony and overwhelming stupidity" committing "unthinkable atrocities." More comical is Stack's portrait of his own misery. As a fuller, objective emerges, we're likely to see more dramatic chasms between reality and his depictions, but the contradictions are already comical. Stack likens his plight to an elderly woman in the neighborhood living on cat food. He doesn't mention eating it in the cockpit of his private plane. In Stack's version, he lived and died a pauper. In real life, he amassed a series of businesses, a $230,000 home in an affluent community, and the airplane he crashed into the building.

Martyr/injustice collector: Killers like Stack love to project themselves as martyrs, but that thinking often emerges from a long history of collecting injustices, while ignoring his ever-growing wealth. Big Brother "strips my carcass," Stack complains. His antagonists are merciless: "[A]s usual, they left me to rot and die." He complains that the 1986 tax revision might as well as "directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave."

Superiority masking self-loathing (projection): Stack lashes out at "the incredible stupidity of the American public": "brainwashed" "zombies" who follow along dutifully, incapable of his keen insights to look right through the horror of "the real American nightmare." It's a feeble claim of superiority, when the entire treatise reeks of self-loathing. Stark ends with an attack on capitalism—"From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed." But this is not a man who rejected the system. He only rejected the idea of paying his taxes. He spent his life creating businesses, working the system, and constantly keeping score with his bank balance. Stack embraced capitalism and then convinced himself he was a dismal failure at it.
There is a strong hint of projection in Stack's thinking. When he complains of moving to a better life in Austin and discovering "a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance," he might as well be describing the document he's composing. Projection is common among depressed people, who take a personal trait they despise in themselves and apply it to something external to bat around and ridicule. The televangelist who decries immorality in the midst of an affair is a classic example. It looks to us like conscious hypocrisy, but it's really just a dirty little reusable tool for him to beat up on his own sins.

Isolationist thinking: This served as an aggravating factor for Stack. He presents himself as battling a monolithic series of adversaries: big business, big government, Big Brother, big religion. He sees himself as a shrunken David unable to match this Goliath. There is a suggestion of paranoia here. Stack is a supremely unreliable narrator of his own story, but he does seem to have created real financial hardship for himself. When he repeatedly chose not to pay his taxes, one or more of his business licenses was suspended.
That seems to be at the heart of Stack's whole mess. Unnamed, but ever-present in his commentary, is his immersion in a fringe group or groups who believed they were exempt from the federal income tax. By his account, Stack devoted enormous time, energy, and possibly money to this cause.
Stack made some awful choices on his taxes, but surrounding himself with like-minded zealots may have been just as dangerous in the long run. In his insightful FBI study "The Lethal Triad," Dr. Kevin Gilmartin describes intellectual isolation as a key factor when extremists lash out violently. It's counterintuitive, but joining certain groups can be more isolating than living alone. Stack found a group that encouraged and validated the idea of avoiding taxation, which might have been difficult for him to sustain on his own. The moral support he found appears to have helped him sustain a rather nutty concept for 20 to 30 years, in spite of the economic distress it inflicted on him.

Construing selfishness as selflessness: Stack needed a coping strategy, a rationalization for his financial failure. He found one in patriotism. Sure, it may look like greed to keep 100 percent of your paycheck, but Stack was doing it all for us! And, oh, the price he paid. "That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0."

Helplessness/hopelessness: Joseph Stack committed both homicide and suicide this week, but all the signs point to suicide as the driver. The FBI trains hostage negotiators to look for two clear signals that a perpetrator is likely to do himself in. Helplessness is the sense that I can't get things to work out. Hopelessness sets in when that belief becomes permanent: The helplessness is here to stay. Stack's manifesto reeks of both. He felt powerless and took control in the only way he knew he could "win." He was pretty sure that if he crashed that plane his life would end. He just needed a way to justify it.

That's where the first four symptoms—narcissism, grandiosity, superiority, and martyrdom—came back into play. Performance murders like Stack's are narcissism taken to its worst extreme. Lots of people will die, most of them innocent, but sorry, I had to kill them to make my point. It's all about me."

http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/

Never said I was.

You seem to say that here.

are you talking about driving by a prison, or being a "guest" for an undetermined length of time?

only time i ever went to a prison was to drive a friend to visit a buddy in san quentin. when we got there she said if i went in i'd have to be searched, and they have a right to strip search you, search your car, and anything you're carrying. if you go in and refuse the search, the inmate is refused visiting privileges that day. i opted to wait outside in the car. yes i was scared, lol.

and the irs, i had them up my ass for a measly $60 in income that i didn't report. by the time they "caught me red-handed in my fraud attempt" (four years later) it cost over $400 in fines and late penalties.

it wasn't fraud it was a 1099 that someone never gave me for a $60 job i did that she reported to the irs for HER purposes but neglected to give me the piece i needed to keep from perpetrating "tax fraud".

i wouldn't fly any planes in over it. and i don't do any more contract labor.

OH shit yes i did, several years later! I filed an estimated tax return, you know when you guess how much you think you're going to make? Well they disagreed with me. They decided I was going to make $10k in 3 months instead of the $2k i made, and they hit me for the full liability of their guesstimate of $10k AND they froze my bank accounts. You know what? They don't give you BACK your bank accounts until THEY have decided that it's all settled. And in that case, I didn't owe them a dime, they ended up owing me because the estimate i paid was higher than the tax liability.

Still I wouldn't do them any harm. But they operate with the assumption that the citizen is a criminal and they hold all your assets until THEY decide that you're not. It's okay for them to steal from a citizen, but the citizen has no recourse. None whatsoever. And they take their sweet time giving you back what is rightfully yours.

And they didn't even apologize.

And I disagree that it's a *most* people thing. I think more people than less have an assumed danger in their jobs. But we can agree to disagree.

I didn't know you work for the government...I thought you worked at a dentist's office.

Again, I don't know what you do for the government, but you're welcome to talk to Mahhh Woman about the (un)safety of her job. I'm sure her friend who was under 24hour police protection for months (I think it was months) would be willing to tell you about her experiences being followed, called on her personal phones, etc by known criminals.

Again, you're leaving out judges, district attorneys (more of Mahhh Woman's friends), court workers, etc.

I also don't know how long you were in construction, but I've seen some horrible accidents and even a man get run over by one of those big asphalt rollers. Only one of the accidents (a guy who accidently poured two buckets of hot tar all over his face...it was pretty horrible) was under the person's control. And when I set a man's leg on fire...it wasn't under his control.

We have probation and parole officers.

My point is, there is no assumed safety when dealing with other people. No one really knows when someone is going to snap. And if you're in a position that completely disrupts the lives of others, the chances of someone snapping go up.

Just as there's no assumed safety when driving your car. You never know what someone else is going to do. I mean, like you said, even at a pizza shop there's a bomb threat. And how many churches (they're 'supposed' to be safe) have been bombed?


Dylan

And I left out all of the places in which One has to walk through a metal detector before entering...which now includes schools in some areas.

If there's an assumption of safety, why are there metal detectors?


Dylan

Did he get a permit from the city to do that? :|

Boy, they have permits for everything these days, don't they!! :readfineprint:

You are absolutely right. I did put "we", my apologies. But are you really going to try and stick with your argument that people are not afraid of their government? If not by taxes, name one out of a billion other things that our government has us by the balls by.

Are you really going to deny the fear?

That being said, are you really going to deny that our government has us afraid which is contradictory to the foundation of the constitution? This country?

I really just want people to sit and think about that. Out of EVERYTHING we fight/disagree about, we should STILL not fear our government for any reason. Its unconscionable, and unconstitutional.

And don't forget that CPS can investigate and take your kids based on "reports" of abuse. Pics of your kids in the bath tub? Be careful who sees them as you might have a government agency on your doorstep asking about child pornography. Got a beef with your neighbor. Pray he or she doesn't go to the police and make up reports of terrorism, drugs, bombs etc on. Watch what you check out of the library too. Its all kept on record. And if you end up on the no fly list due to an error or you have the same name as someone on the list, well give it up, you're driving from now on. Imagine being an 18 year old high school senior who has sex with his 16 year old high school girlfriend. Oops. your're now on the sexual predator list for LIFE. It happens. Uhh don't want to get on the wrong side of the US government. My girlfriend is a naturalized citizen and worries that the Feds have her fingerprints on file for life. Had to be fingerprinted to get her citizenship. That's it, she's on the grid for life. She's in the database. She laughs about it but seriously they have them. It gives you pause. Oh and be careful what you write on this board, on any internet board, on an email because you put the wrong string of words together and bam......listen for that knock on the door. Or you say the wrong thing on the phone.......they're listening......Uhhh you have to be careful what you do, what you say, who you make friends with. Call me paranoid .....but I think there is a lot of truth to what I say. Oh and don't get me started on all the people who are innocent and end up in prison for years on end. And all the mismangement, fraud, corruption, bribery, incompetent workers, graft, nepotism, friends hiring friends at all level of government and in all government agencies.

Rufus

He most certainly did.

Five people in my house.

5 showers a day.

Aprox.25-30 flushes a day

15-20 loads of laundry a week..in a large washer.

My bill this month was 18 dollars.

Sewage was 23.

The kids are gonna have to start peeing in the yard.

:2cents:

Taxes are a necessary evil in a civilized society. When I was in Germany almost half of my income went to taxes. Of course there wasn't any tax on gas or consumables, but it felt like a lot, until I got hurt and the German Doctor fixed me and sent me on my way.

We all have to pay taxes. As I always say to people who don't want to pay taxes, great, stay off the highways, don't call a cop or a fireman, don't ask the Army to do anything on your behalf and don't take an airplane. Don't send your brats to the public schools and don't ask us to put anyone in jail for committing a crime that won't be investigated because there are no police. I could go on for a while on that one but I think my point is clear.

The wingnut faction who is trying to steal this country away with their don't tread on me bullshit is out of touch with the reality of an entity as large as this country. Do I want my tax money wasted? Absolutely not. Do I want a safety net in place for people who fall on hard times? Yes. Do I want to support someone who is capable of working for the rest of their life? No. Do I have a problem paying my fair share? Nope.

Personally, I want corporations out of government. I do not want BofA or anyone else contributing to the election of a Congressman. The Supreme Court came out with their worst decision of all time on that one. OK, Dred Scott was worse, but you get what I mean. I do not want banks bailed out by our government while families lose their homes. And if Good Lord willing I become one of the 2% who make over $250k a year, I'll pay my fair share. If I can't make my mortgage payment, I expect to lose my house under the terms of the contract I signed. If a CEO runs a company into the ground because like Jamie Dimon they thought the real estate market would never stop going up, they should lose their jobs and their houses. They should not get a pat on the back, a bucket of money and a bonus next year.

I understand that people are frustrated. It's a lack of education and the result of 8 years of an Asleep at the Wheel Presidency. Last month I had a guy blame Obama for him losing his house. Except they missed he first mortgage payment in July 2008. There is a disconnect.

We forget that Bush couldn't find oil in Texas, ran the Rangers into the ground and basically had a track record of fucking up a wet dream. It's not some drone following procedures at an IRS building that is the problem. It's the Congress that enacts laws that they haven't read that have amendments in them that benefit corporations and punish constituents. It's the lack of personal responsibility in this country which is a direct extension of the lack of corporate responsibility in this country. If everybody stepped up and said "I own this", say like Tiger did, we'd be in a better place.

As for the clown that bulldozed the house, he breached the mortgage when he did that and now he'll have nothing and still owe taxes and the mortgage. They will hound him until the end of time. Idiot. And he's probably the kind of guy who complains about attorneys. Like my brother the attorney says "if y'all would act right, I'd be out of work, but you don't."

:explode:

oh really? tell me what you are going to do when there is no food left in the stores because of some disaster and people are coming down your driveway, intent on killing you and your family for what you have left?

going to just invite them in for tea and cookies?

I guess we'll have to get a plane and fly it into a building and kill a bunch of people. Right?
That'll solve the problem.

As it has been with most of my life I sit on a fence with this. I'm between liberal hippy and conservative bitch most likely caught in a bureaucratic trap most of us are in. Sheeple (is that right?) is exactly what we are.

Our government is the worse terrorist of all. Our entire civilization has been erected from slaughtering and abusing natives and other people in the name of some fucked up system that's soul agenda is to control us. We can celebrate a fucked up LIE called history and support a system that has literally abused us but damn the one individual that reacts.

I don't agree with any act of violence but I can damn sure see why he did what he did. The thought, I am sure has crossed many a mind. He was just willing to trade his life for it. Not something many of us would consider. No, I don't think he was a coward. I think he snapped and just had enough.

lets keep facts straight. he did not kill a bunch of people. other then himself there is 1 dead, 1 injured

Dude. Seriously?

His intent was to do a lot more damage than he did. You can read his manifesto until the end of time. Murder and mayhem. I cannot believe that you and any one else for that matter is defending murder and mayhem. I'd recommend a reality check.

Obviously you didn't read the manifesto properly, never once did he mention mass killing, or going on a rampage. He targeted the institution, not the people.

Ohhhhhh.....ok. One dead is ok. Got it now.

You scare me!

I think he was willing to trade ALOT of people's lives for it. Do you seriously believe he thought he'd be the only one to die??? You gotta be kidding me.
That whole fucking building could've exploded.

I truly can not fathom you people and your rationale.

*shakes head*

He was an extremely intelligent person. Do you really think he thought no one would get hurt?? Come on!

if he was only targeting "the institution" he might have chosen a time like say, midnight, instead of midmorning on a workday.

just sayin'.

and i can barely read, let alone his "manifesto". but it doesn't matter what he wrote, it's what he did; if he wasn't targeting people he did a bad job of carrying out his mission.

Who knew that someday people would have their lives saved by traffic on MoPac?