What you say about anothers sexuality/desire says more about you then it does about them. Internalized homophobia, mysoginistic turns of phrases, unintentionally insulting anothers relating with phrases like, 'more equal' or 'more spiritual' puts down the ability of another that they cannot have a more equal or spiritual relationship but you can...please. I sent a butch boi that was tracking me at an event to hang with the other bottoms who happened to be femmes for a bit in a hotel room, hys comment was, 'and do what, talk about fingernail polish?' Wow, way to turn me off by insulting my femme friends and assume their conversation could be nothing more than fluff.

We're attracted to what we're attracted to and that said, it can change over time.

So "our" community putting others down for their preferences is very sad and in my opinion should not be tolerated and challenged in conversations all the time.

Rope--

And the fastest way to show your complete ignorance of how the world works. As a femme I never talked about nail polish*. Most of my friends are feminine and I can't think of a single conversation we had which centred about nail polish. What I did have, unfortunately, was masculine-type dykes talking to me as if I was 3 years old. I even had women express shock and outrage that I wasn't willing to follow them home like they expected me to. I'd say the problem isn't the femmes in a lot of cases, but less mature boi's and butches buying into the idea that feminine = passive.


*(not until I found a woman who could paint it on for me and make it stay for 3 weeks so I wouldn't have to do anything myself. I still wear it, not because I'm a 'femme' but because my husband loves it)

Poodle /schnauzer..... thats outside the box.:blink:... thanks for the chuckle.

Actually they're cute! I prefer Poodle /maltese though.

Ok, for those of y'all who don't read, here is the quote in its original context, (NOTE that I stated CLEARLY, "As someone said in a previous post" - that meant I was QUOTING somebody):

That statement was made last January, & seems Brewcityboi didn't get as much flak for it then as I did when I repeated HIS statement.

I don't speak for anyone but myself. For me, there is a different level of connection in a butch on butch relationship. I apologize that I don't have a better way of describing it than "spiritual" or "equivalent," but hey, I'm not a walking dictionary. And just because I feel that way about myself and my relationships does NOT mean I'm judging you and yours. If your relationships didn't do something for you on a level of spirituality and equality, then I'm sure none of you would be IN them, regardless of what manner of relationships they may be.

Again, I speak for myself alone, and I stand by what I said.

The first sentence I bolded implies that f/f, b/f are less than. You flat out say that sex other than b/b is less than.

I bolded the word 'more' up there in your posts. It's the 'more' that creates problems for some of us. By saying 'more' it implies f/f or b/f is somehow 'less than' b/b.

The 'celebration of equals' also implies that femme is less than equal to butch.

You can talk about how your sexual proclivities work for you without putting down other folks through the use of un-neccessary adjectives.

Language is powerful. We must all take the time to think about what we write. We must actually understand what 'I' statements really look like. Saying "I think sex with butches is a whole different level and is more intense' is not an I statement. 'I find sex with another butch to be incredible' is an I statement. Or 'for me sex with another butch is incredible, intense, spiritual and cerebral'.

You're right, Toughy, language IS powerful.

So is what one CHOOSES to hear.

You make a great point in how ChainerBoi could have worded his statement by telling him that he could have said "For me, ...etc.", but you completely overlook the fact that, in his original post, he said EXACTLY that. He said the exact words "for ME" (emphasis added).

I've read a lot of posts on here in different forums that got my blood to boilin', or that I was ready to respond a certain way to, until I took a second to re-read what the person said, and fully understand it.

I think most of us would agree that what ChainerBoi said could have been said better and in a more tactful way, but I think we can all ALSO agree that he probably didn't mean it the way some folks took it.

Maybe we ALL just need to ease up a bit...?

At any rate, thanks to ALL for their comments.

Oh, and thanks, Toughy, for your point about "I" statements. Some of our youth may not have gotten that kind of education in relating to their peers, and even some of us who have may occasionally need refreshers.

Thoughts
 

I think it's fine and dandy to state our desires and preferences without having to belittle others when doing so.

That whole thing about equal and all that was poorly worded in regards to how a Femme is and how Femmes are being portrayed.

If a person wants to set a hierarchy and exclude Femme out of it I will and do have an issue with it.

I'm glad others do too and called it out. It'll be a good learning experience for all involved:)

I pointed out that his 'for me' statement is not a good 'for me' or 'I' statement because the 'for me' is followed by 'more cerebral' and 'more spiritual' setting up a hierarchy with b/b being at the top and everything else falls below b/b. Leave the 'more' out of the statement and it's all good....no hierarchy.

I can only read what Chainer wrote. I have to believe he meant what he wrote.

I will never ease up when I see hierarchies being set up, especially when they are ones that appear to value masculine over feminine. Masculine and feminine are equal. Period. Full Stop.

Just because you say 'Ithink, for me' does not remove the judgment language of 'it's more cerebral and more spiritual'. Back pedalling doesn't erase what you typed.

Rope--

Butch on Butch theory
 

I am a butch who dates other butches I respect everyones choice to be and date who they are attracted to I find that since I do date other butches many think im feminine and think because they are butch I would date them Both of these are untrue I am very butch and would never date or try to convince someone who wasnt into butch-butch dynamic to date me or switch teams Have a great day and keep loving who you love

Interesting post and thread.

I was once at a public play party and I began watching a scene between a boi sub/bottom and a Butch Top.

The Butch Top had negotiated in advance with the boi's Owner, another Butch Top, and was actually borrowing the boi for the scene.

So, here's the tableau: me (a Butch Top) watching a boi be topped by a Butch Top while the boi's owner, a third Butch Top stands with a look of satisfaction, nodding, while the first Butch Top flogs the daylights out of the boi with two floggers at once, one in each hand, against a saw horse, and so on.

It was a great scene and it unfolded beautifully and slow. It was memorable.

I never really thought about if/how the Butch/boi couple had to deal with shit from others. There was just some intense energy between the couple that you could see and feel as the 'borrower' Butch flogged the boi as the Butch Owner watched nearby. And the aftercare between the Butch Owner and the boi was good to discreetly watch, too.

I remember back in 09 when I first started this thread! WOW, that has been so long ago! Thanks Marine, for re-activating the thread :o) Its been a while, since I have even gone through these threads. Must have been super busy these last couple years hah!!! Glad you also agree that butch/butch is super hot :P. As for me, YES Im still on the very extremely butch on butch love boat!

I have been attracted to femme and butch in the past. But anymore im almost always attracted to butches. I recently spoke to a woman that flat out told me i was weird because im more attracted to other butch women. She then informed me it is unnatural . I was kinda shocked and told her that some folks think gay in general is unnatural. And that i think you should just like what you like and thats it. She then told me its to weird and two butches together make her think of two men. I asked about femme /femme and that was unnatural to. I just quit talking to her lol .

Ive also had my brother tell me it would be hard for me to find a butch that would date me because im butch. And i say thats bs. Ive seen plenty butch/butch couples. And i attended the wedding of a soft butch and butch that had been together 20 years. So i say its natural and more common than some believe.

the only issue I have with butch on butch....is that whn they partner up, its two fewer butches for us femmes that love em.....lol

I have absolutely no issues with either butch on butch or femme on femme! If two people find someone in this day and age all the best to them:praying:

oy!
 

Internal homophobia is an ugly stain in our queer tapestry...

Who cares who loves who and what label, they use, love is love!

Just my little take on the subject :p

I don't think it's always a case of internalized homophobia. Some femmes may pout about the butch/butch dynamic for the simple reason that they're jealous. It means fewer butches available to them, especially if they find the butches involved to be attractive. It's hard to find a partner and it's easier to pass the blame for that by saying 'no wonder I can't find a partner when all the butches are being taken by other butches!" I have had brief moments where I felt that way. I know it's dumb and selfish, but I'm human. I always come to my senses, because we all need to find love and happiness. Life's too short to worry about other people's expectations.