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-   -   Casey Anthony - guilty, or not? (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3465)

Toughy 07-05-2011 02:38 PM

I stand by what the jury said. They were sitting in the room every day, listened to the judge, witnesses, lawyers, saw her every day and reached a verdict. All 12 of them agreed she lied to the po po. All 12 of them agreed (edited to add: there was reasonable doubt) she did not kill/murder her child.

Trying and convicting people in the press without all the facts hurts our judicial system. Especially when the verdict is not guilty or in this case guilty of lying, but not manslaughter/murder. Common law (and US law) all the way back to the late 1700's states suspects are innocent until proven guilty, with the prosecution having the burden of proof. All of us should remember this.

Peach 07-05-2011 03:10 PM

I was saying to Huskyb last night, there was NO proof how the child died, and without that, there was no proof she was killed by her mother, and she was going to walk. I hoped I was wrong, but I wasnt.

Kobi 07-05-2011 03:21 PM


This verdict, to me, seems justified given the lack of direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence that requires mental gymnastics is likely to be problematic to a convinction.

The prosecution just didnt prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

She is to be sentenced Thursday and I fully expect, after 3 years in custody, she will walk out a free woman that day.

Someday, perhaps, the truth of what happened to that child will surface.


Corkey 07-05-2011 03:23 PM

When the prosecution provides only circumstantial evidence in a Capitol case and does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty, then the person is not adjudicated guilty. She was found guilty of lying to a law enforcement officer on counts 4-7. She may still do jail time for that, sentencing on Thursday.

It is my fervent hope that when called to be on a jury people would use their brains and leave their hearts out of critical decisions of life and death.

The emotional should never enter into deciding the guilt of an individual, only the facts of the case. If there are no facts, or circumstantial evidence, there is no case.

Do I feel she did it, I have no clue as I was not on her jury. Remember the jury was sequestered for the entire trial, they did not see the TV or read the papers of have access to social media. So they had the facts of the case, while we all got conjecture and emotion.

nowandthen 07-05-2011 03:26 PM

From My friend
 
Alina Browne
'So if you're a Black mother and you send your child to a better school district you're a criminal, but if you're a white mother and you kill your child, acquittal. Yeah, please don't even try to tell me our judicial system isn't a sham.'

morningstar55 07-05-2011 03:29 PM

in Wisconsin .. 11 yrs ago... 4 kids starved ,beaten , abused... 3 boys 1 girl. the girl was kept in a small dog cage in a cold dark basment most her life until she was 7 ...
the parents......... arrested and gvin 1 yr in jail ...


http://www.imperfectparent.com/topic...inally-speaks/

Corkey 07-05-2011 03:31 PM

And this is what I mean about the emotional part. Emotion is not fact. Do I feel for the mother who is in jail because she broke the law and tried to get her child a better education, you fucking bet I do, it doesn't change the fact she broke the law. It is the laws that need changing people.

The_Lady_Snow 07-05-2011 03:32 PM

This country's judicial system will put Men and Women of color in prison for an ounce if weed in SOME states, this woman kills her child and she gets off without nothing?

I'm not seeing how the judicial system is balanced and no I'm not leaving my emotions out a child is gone, a child who would of been a woman her value should NEVER EVER be made into nothing, ever.

The_Lady_Snow 07-05-2011 03:34 PM

Worth repeating
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nowandthen (Post 372651)
Alina Browne
'So if you're a Black mother and you send your child to a better school district you're a criminal, but if you're a white mother and you kill your child, acquittal. Yeah, please don't even try to tell me our judicial system isn't a sham.'



THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES!!!

Corkey 07-05-2011 03:36 PM

There is no Proof she did it! I can emote all fucking day about the child, it wont bring her back, but the woman was found not guilty.
The system is flawed, it isn't perfect, but damnit when 12 people say not guilty and they have All the evidence than not guilty it is.

The_Lady_Snow 07-05-2011 03:37 PM

12 people have also placed innocent POC in prison based on their race. Great system yippee!

Dante 07-05-2011 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJFemmie (Post 372568)
That's what ultimately scares me. Based on how she conducts herself, she could have another child and this could happen again.


This is so very possible. I have known peeps that are sociopaths. They have no conscience, not capable of feelings for others, unable to control their actions. They use people for their own benefit and then discard them when not needing them anymore. I am also scared and very worried about Casey's future victims! Many people commented on facebook, and reminds us of all of the searches done on the computer. Is it possible that she was planning do kill the entire family??? Someone mentioned karma. Casey, you WILL pay. OJ is now in prison!

Corkey 07-05-2011 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow (Post 372657)
12 people have also placed innocent POC in prison based on their race. Great system yippee!

Yes they have and instead of emoting about it work to change it! There is the SPLC that works to overturn innocent peoples convictions, there is the Innocents Project. There are things that can change the system if reasonable people work to make it happen.
I will in no instance say the system is perfect, it isn't but I will not try a person in the court of public opinion.

weatherboi 07-05-2011 03:45 PM

Our system convicts innocent people all the time and guilty people go free. I accept a guilty woman went free today. Hoorah!!! i remember Susan smith, I think she said a black man carjacked her car with her kids in it. This girl tried to blame it on a latina woman. I see a pattern and this is Our judicial system .it is set up to let pretty white women go free and rich men get away with murder.

The_Lady_Snow 07-05-2011 03:48 PM

Please don't tell me how I should react to a hard situation Corkey and please don't assume I do nothing against the injustices of this country, that was pretty shitty. I'm allowed to say how I feel or what I'm thinking it's not against the TOS just the same way you can express your thoughts without question we all should be able to without having someone wag the do something about it finger at us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey (Post 372660)
Yes they have and instead of emoting about it work to change it! There is the SPLC that works to overturn innocent peoples convictions, there is the Innocents Project. There are things that can change the system if reasonable people work to make it happen.
I will in no instance say the system is perfect, it isn't but I will not try a person in the court of public opinion.


The_Lady_Snow 07-05-2011 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weatherboi (Post 372663)
Our system convicts innocent people all the time and guilty people go free. I accept a guilty woman went free today. Hoorah!!! i remember Susan smith, I think she said a black man carjacked her car with her kids in it. This girl tried to blame it on a latina woman. I see a pattern and this is Our judicial system .it is set up to let pretty white women go free and rich men get away with murder.



And rape!!!!! :(

nowandthen 07-05-2011 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey (Post 372653)
And this is what I mean about the emotional part. Emotion is not fact. Do I feel for the mother who is in jail because she broke the law and tried to get her child a better education, you fucking bet I do, it doesn't change the fact she broke the law. It is the laws that need changing people.

But if that same child can play sports, those parent do not go to jail, please.... look up Jim Crow.

I was not in the jury , I respect what they did, what the eveidence and the law allowed. But this has racism all over it, the fact that we know the name of all the players, that the media coverage is sicking, yet young brown men are dying at alarming rates or are in jail, or pregnat women are handcuffed to the bed when giving birth in jail.

I did not watch any of it and yet I could not get away from it, why not do that with all the children killed reguardless of circumstance, just a thought.
These our post i made on FB
Again are the right questions being asked? How does any child end up dead at the hands of the folks who are supposed to love them. Why is it so hard for white folks to admit we as a collective are valued and benifit in all areas from a system aimed to do just that? I did not watch any of it, I am grateful I read non-normative media...
I am more sad at how this case was elevated over the hundreds of children killed everyday around the world. Yes i know this question is rhetorical I know why. Humans running to get in line made me sick, yes throughout history but I find this offensive, the spectacale seems hypocritical to find happiness or joy in any of it.

Corkey 07-05-2011 03:55 PM

Because I think something doesn't make it so. 12 people found her Not guilty. None of us were in the jury, we don't know what the evidence was, they were sequestered and only had the evidence. WE had the emotion from the reporters the court attendees and the court of public opinion. None of which are facts.

I'd hate like hell to be someone accused and have most of you on my jury.
You're right Snow I am pointing fingers. I want people to use their brains and not their emotions while on a jury. I want the guilty to be jailed and the innocent to go free. No where do I think that because I feel, should any of that happen.

And no where do I think it is fair for POC to go to jail when they are innocent.

weatherboi 07-05-2011 03:56 PM

I don't think people are emoting I think it is more like mourning. Mourning for a child forgotten. Mourning a child that will never receive justice. Reasonable doubt does not make her innocent. She just got lucky.

Corkey 07-05-2011 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowandthen (Post 372670)
But if that same child can play sports, those parent do not go to jail, please.... look up Jim Crow.

I was not in the jury , I respect what they did, what the eveidence and the law allowed. But this has racism all over it, the fact that we know the name of all the players, that the media coverage is sicking, yet young brown men are dying at alarming rates or are in jail, or pregnat women are handcuffed to the bed when giving birth in jail.

I did not watch any of it and yet I could not get away from it, why not do that with all the children killed reguardless of circumstance, just a thought.
These our post i made on FB
Again are the right questions being asked? How does any child end up dead at the hands of the folks who are supposed to love them. Why is it so hard for white folks to admit we as a collective are valued and benifit in all areas from a system aimed to do just that? I did not watch any of it, I am grateful I read non-normative media...
I am more sad at how this case was elevated over the hundreds of children killed everyday around the world. Yes i know this question is rhetorical I know why. Humans running to get in line made me sick, yes throughout history but I find this offensive, the spectacale seems hypocritical to find happiness or joy in any of it.

Don't you admonish ME about Jim Crow you don't know my background! You are bringing emotion to a fact based system.

weatherboi 07-05-2011 04:05 PM

it is pretty clear EVERYBODY posting in here is emotional. :) there are hundreds of poc and non poc that are found guilty with less circumstantial evidence than this woman. She got lucky with the 12 people. Corkey if you don't have anything nice to say to me in a rep then just keep it to yourself. I think you know better at this point. Please and thank you!!!

nowandthen 07-05-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corkey (Post 372674)
Don't you admonish ME about Jim Crow you don't know my background! You are bringing emotion to a fact based system.

Jim Crow is Law not emotion! I am not invested in this case, I am invested in folks being informed, no I do not know you, nor you me, so we can call it even

princessbelle 07-05-2011 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weatherboi (Post 372673)
I don't think people are emoting I think it is more like mourning. Mourning for a child forgotten. Mourning a child that will never receive justice. Reasonable doubt does not make her innocent. She just got lucky.


Totally agree. When it comes to the murder of a child it very hard to accept what the jury finds as a verdict.

It is an injustice IMO and yes it is sad that this child will never be vindicated and no wrath will come upon the woman whose hand caused it.

Just sad.

FlowerFem 07-05-2011 04:14 PM

It's hard to imagine a MOTHER could either kill their own baby, or have a hand in it. I don't know how you could live with yourself afterwards . How could you justify that to yourself ? How could your heart be so cold ? I suppose blaming someone else, or something else, seems to be what she attempted to do. What a dark, lost soul, she must be. Very sad.

kannon 07-05-2011 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowandthen (Post 372676)
Jim Crow is Law not emotion! I am not invested in this case, I am invested in folks being informed, no I do not know you, nor you me, so we can call it even

What does Jim Crow laws have to do with this verdict? Jim Crow laws ended in the 50's or 60's. They were unjust and racist laws that tried to segregate POC. Definitely UNJUST and WRONG. But what does it have to do with this case?

The thread OP asked: Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

Apocalipstic 07-05-2011 04:22 PM

It is hearbreaking when a child is killed, no matter how it happened.

I agree that people spend more time in jail for small amounts of weed, than apparentlyr tampering with a dead body, staging a crime scene and lying to police...and the people likely to spend that time are seldom white.

Our justice system is incredibly flawed.

I also agree that the missing children the media grasps on to seem to always be white from at least Middle Class, female and really cute. How sad for all the other thousands of children missing right now.

Did she do it? If I were forced to guess I would go with yes, but there was not enough direct evidence to convict. But just a guess.

Corkey 07-05-2011 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weatherboi (Post 372675)
it is pretty clear EVERYBODY posting in here is emotional. :) there are hundreds of poc and non poc that are found guilty with less circumstantial evidence than this woman. She got lucky with the 12 people. Corkey if you don't have anything nice to say to me in a rep then just keep it to yourself. I think you know better at this point. Please and thank you!!!


I said in your opinion and I'll say it here, there was no un nice about it, A statement. Period. You are welcome.

Peach 07-05-2011 04:28 PM

this is something difficult to keep emotion OUT of. Yes, 12 people had access to evidence, but that whole trial was on tv almost 24/7, so outside of photgraphs that werent shown on tv, I think the public got most of the same info, but I could be wrong.
MY emotions now are saved for that child who never stood a chance, and for any child she may have in the future, who could be in the same danger. I hesitate to say I hope Casey learns from this, and turns her life around, but *I* feel she is a narcisist and incapable of concern for anyone except her own self, and will not learn a thing.


If she walks free Tursday, which is a huge possiblility, where will she go I wonder? Would her parents allow her bak in their home? Would any of you, if this were your daughter? I dont know if I could or not, after all the lies, and her trying to lay the blame on me, accusations of molestation etc......

nowandthen 07-05-2011 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kannon (Post 372680)
What does Jim Crow laws have to do with this verdict? Jim Crow laws ended in the 50's or 60's. They were unjust and racist laws that tried to segregate POC. Definitely UNJUST and WRONG. But what does it have to do with this case?

The thread OP asked: Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?

If you think Jim Crow is over then I suggest reading the book, The New Jim Crow, by Michelle Alexandar. It has everything to do with this case. Race and Class impact every legal case in America. We have a prision for profit society that is fed by the imbalance in the justics system. When you can get life for crack and time served for powder cocaine as an example or the statistacs that show the how many POC are some how under police survelance, jail, probation, youth authority, house arrest, etc. there is no question that we have a new perment class of people who can not particapate, can not get student loans, food stamps, welfare or work because you must check the box that states " have you ever been convicted of a felony" you are marginalized.
The relation to this case is the media coverage, and the perception of the accussed. I have no doubt in my mind that is the accused was a women of color the case would not have been a national news story and guilty would have been the outcome. RACE MATTERS as Dr. West states.

cinderella 07-05-2011 04:39 PM

I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE THIS!!!
 
I just found out that the verdict is: NOT GUILTY!!!

Jesus Christ almighty!!! I am so in shock & disbelief, I'm thinking I must be dreaming!!! What the hell is wrong with people??? I am just speechless at this point, and still recovering from the outcome of the deliberations...so unbelivable...

kannon 07-05-2011 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowandthen (Post 372691)
If you think Jim Crow is over then I suggest reading the book, The New Jim Crow, by Michelle Alexandar. It has everything to do with this case. Race and Class impact every legal case in America. We have a prision for profit society that is fed by the imbalance in the justics system. When you can get life for crack and time served for powder cocaine as an example or the statistacs that show the how many POC are some how under police survelance, jail, probation, youth authority, house arrest, etc. there is no question that we have a new perment class of people who can not particapate, can not get student loans, food stamps, welfare or work because you must check the box that states " have you ever been convicted of a felony" you are marginalized.
The relation to this case is the media coverage, and the perception of the accussed. I have no doubt in my mind that is the accused was a women of color the case would not have been a national news story and guilty would have been the outcome. RACE MATTERS as Dr. West states.

I agree with you 100% but I think the real victim in this case is the child.

cinderella 07-05-2011 04:47 PM

Ditto...
 
...what he said!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorp (Post 372471)
I forgot to add that I'm tired of people making excuses for her!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH..GUILTY AS SIN!!!


cinderella 07-05-2011 04:58 PM

From your lips, to God's ears!!!

If there is a God...please, please, please, don't let this woman get away with this - strike her down with lightning or something. That poor baby doesn't deserve this last insult.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorp (Post 372532)
Verdict: Not guilty of first degree murder

..I hope you get paid back....


always2late 07-05-2011 05:02 PM

I am shocked and saddened by this...and my heart breaks for that poor little girl. I think that at the very least it should have been a hung jury. If the evidence didn't support a conviction of first degree murder...then at the very least the jury should have asked themselves what kind of mother has a child die in an ACCIDENT and then allows the body to rot in the woods for months where its been dumped like trash while lying to the police? Ok...so its unclear whether she murdered her child or not (according to the evidence), but she KNEW the child was dead! She knew where the body was! And said NOTHING!! How can you reasonably let this woman walk??

My heart weeps...rest in peace little one.

cinderella 07-05-2011 05:05 PM

Or bought, if that were possible - hmmmm, I wonder...

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar55 (Post 372549)
omg....... this is upseting ......
the jury must of been on drugs


Dante 07-05-2011 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peach (Post 372685)
this is something difficult to keep emotion OUT of. Yes, 12 people had access to evidence, but that whole trial was on tv almost 24/7, so outside of photgraphs that werent shown on tv, I think the public got most of the same info, but I could be wrong.
MY emotions now are saved for that child who never stood a chance, and for any child she may have in the future, who could be in the same danger. I hesitate to say I hope Casey learns from this, and turns her life around, but *I* feel she is a narcisist and incapable of concern for anyone except her own self, and will not learn a thing.


If she walks free Tursday, which is a huge possiblility, where will she go I wonder? Would her parents allow her bak in their home? Would any of you, if this were your daughter? I dont know if I could or not, after all the lies, and her trying to lay the blame on me, accusations of molestation etc......


Peach, I believe this to be true. I believe that she WILL offend again. People like this, cannot control things like anger, they act on impulse and then usually act with violence, and then it is too late.
Regarding emotion. 1990, I was on a jury for 2 men being tried together, first degree murder, with possibly of the death penalty. I watched this entire case. I never want to be on a jury again. It is emotionally draining when you have to decide the fate for another human being. I believe this jury DID use their emotions and thereby, not follow the law! Several of my fellow jurors were affected by the so called Stockholm Syndrone, and because of the length of the trial and feeling or emotions for the defendant can develop. However, we were very conscious of our duties and felt we HAD to follow the law in that you are not to use your emotions or feelings for any and all parties involved. In my opinion, this jury took the easy way out. And they felt for poor little Casey. This makes me sick! Even the defense attorney in his closing put the dead body of little Caylee in HER trunk!!! WTF...It sucks that the jury wasn't allowed to see more evidence about Casey's priors and her behavior. I sincerely believe that we have not heard the last of Casey! She will become desperate again. Who is going to hire her? Doubt she will go live with the parents again.

Medusa 07-05-2011 05:19 PM

Gotta say that the defense was pretty genius with staging her as a tiny little thing. The pink shirts and ruffles? The ponytails? Lowering her chair almost all the way to the floor?

Psychological genius.

cinderella 07-05-2011 05:28 PM

In my OP, I stated that I'd only been 'sporadically' watching this case - so I don't know every little detail. My question to you, Medusa, is, what do you mean by 'abuse of a corpse'? How was the corpse abused? Can you elaborate? Perhaps this came out during a time I was not watching...thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa (Post 372601)
I wonder why the prosecution did not add "Abuse of a Corpse" to her charges? That would at least carry a felony charge that she might have been convicted for.


Andrew, Jr. 07-05-2011 05:34 PM

The Jury Got This Wrong
 

31 days this 2 yo little girl is missing...and her mother is out partying. I agree with George Anthony stating today that it was a "baseless defense". I am sure Judge Belvin Perry is also shocked. For me, it is the same as the OJ Simpson trial. God help us all.

Medusa 07-05-2011 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinderella (Post 372715)
In my OP, I stated that I'd only been 'sporadically' watching this case - so I don't know every little detail. My question to you, Medusa, is, what do you mean by 'abuse of a corpse'? How was the corpse abused? Can you elaborate? Perhaps this came out during a time I was not watching...thanks.

What I meant was that in most states there are very strict laws dealing with the proper disposal of dead bodies and that, in this case, it is clear that even if the jury believed that Casey Anthony did not cause her child's death, she at the very least did not dispose of the body properly if we believe the (bullshit) story about her drowning in a pool.

Had I been the prosecuting attorney, I would have added the "corpse abuse" charge in order to at least guarantee a minimum sentence (1 year I think? with a maximum of 5?) even if the jury didnt find her guilty.

Because clearly, someone threw this child's body in the swamp and duct taped her and wrapped her in a bag. I dont recall hearing if there was ever an explanation as to how or who disposed of the body but I wish that charge would have been added.


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