Exactly! Thank you for sharing this article UofM. I had never seen it or heard of this approach and it's absolutely how I feel.

I have never been able to tolerate the idea of forgiving people who have done nothing to deserve it, and who continue to behave in ways that hurt others.

I know I'm pretty much a black and white thinker (and I'm okay with that)....but my reaction has always been "oh hell no." I totally get the idea of acceptance and making peace with what happened so that the injured party can move forward....but I do not support the free ride that total forgiveness gives to those who hurt and keep on hurting without remorse and change.

Forgiveness for me is something I do for myself.

It's acknowledging that something shitty happened, that it was wrong, and then getting to a point of letting go of the anger and hurt.

When I was dealing with some things that had to be forgiven, I got alone out in a park somewhere and wrote a huge letter, nothing held back. I stayed out there all day. Then I tore it up and literally let it all go into the trashbin.

That doesn't mean that I forget, or that I allow myself to just be abused and forgive them anyway. I got to a point where I had to let go for my own inner health, but be smart enough and love myself enough not to allow them to do that to me again.

Funny this is showing up today.

For me, forgiveness is a fantastic thing and a bitter thing.

I recently had to find a way to forgive a family member. Like the article UofM posted, the offender offered apologies, started making amends. This one amend allowed me to mostly forgive. Can I entirely? Right now, no. The wounds inflicted were too deep. Did it allow me to begin to move on and heal? Yes. Was trust broken? Somewhat. Not entirely.
Forgiveness... I find it to be necessary as part of life. It's not for the other person. That person has to work for it. I can choose to rise above the issue that caused the rift and drown, or find a way to forgive and rebuild the rift.

That is for serious situations.

Now, say my best friend and I have a squabble. Either she or I may ask for forgiveness of the other. It just shows, hey, we got this, we are just fine.

Yesterday I happened upon a podcast with a different interpretation of forgiveness than I'd heard before. It was on one of "Ariel's DCW Lectures" called "Dynamic Healing."

"I was raised Catholic, and I know that because of Adam and Eve, I am guilty. That's the way I was taught, and that's the way it's gonna be and the only way to get forgiveness is by groveling. And the only way to forgive another is by 2 ways - you can either - from a fundamentalist perspective - say, 'Well, you're bad, but I'm saved now, so I will forgive you,' and put yourself up there and them down here. Or you can say, 'Oh well, we're all rotten, miserable sinners, so it doesn't matter.' And so you're all down here.

But what real true forgiveness is, once you start following your heart and following that peaceful place every day - real true forgiveness is none of that. Real true forgiveness is being able to see past all that other stuff, to see right into the heart of who that other person really is - they aren't their past mistakes, they aren't their temper tantrum, they aren't their disease, the aren't their resume, they are not their body - they aren't any of those things. What they are is a child of the universe, a child of love.

And what you're here to do - the only purpose that you're here is to teach love to them. Not talk love to them. Not beat them over the head with your philosophy. Not lecture at them. But to love them. And it's a silent thing - they don't even have to know you're doing it... In fact, the work is much more potent to do this work internally and keep your mouth shut.
...
Being loving doesn't mean you're enabling people's behavior or that you let people treat you however they want to treat you - that's not being loving. If somebody is treating you in a way that is unloving, 'A Course in Miracles' would say they are calling out for love. They aren't being bad - they are being frightened. It will manifest in all kinds of hideous ways. Condemnation of them is not the answer, but it's also not the answer to enable that behavior. So, oftentimes, 'No,' is the loving response.
...
Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you have to have lunch with them. Just because you forgive an abusive parent doesn't mean you have to engage in a conversation with them necessarily."

Anyway, I thought I'd post it because I found it worth considering enough to write down. There are elements I like in what he said. I don't know that I accept all of it, but I do like the idea of looking past a person's mistakes and bad behavior and seeing them - if nothing else - as a person. Loving is another matter, which seems pretty broadly defined up there, though I like that he said that 'oftentimes 'no' is the loving response.' And I like that he said the work is often best done in silence. I guess every once in a while, a person may benefit from knowing you forgive them but I don't think that's the point of forgiveness.

I have recently experienced forgiveness in a new way. Because I am a being of love and light who is in a process of empowerment and release, all sorts of things are being swept out of my dark corners.

My mother is still married to the man who abused me my entire childhood. She has never acknowledged the abuse, let alone apologized for any part of it. After more than a decade of not seeing her or speaking to her I decided to be open when she showed up in my life again last summer. Why? Because I love her. Because I know she loves me. Because I love myself well enough now that I can give us both the gift of compassion without it taking anything away from me to do it. I asked myself how can this be okay with me? And I realized that I have forgiven her everything that has gone before and I forgive her for still being a sad, lost soul. My expectations are minimal. I've changed myself in relation to this relationship. I am the strong, loving, wise one here.

Most certainly there is some sort of reckoning on the horizon, whether we come to it together or I go it alone. But I feel we have a chance at a meaningful exchange because I already forgive her and I come in the spirit of love and compassion. I could be disappointed or saddened, but I can not be injured by this situation anymore. It is the greatest gift I have ever given myself.

In short:
 

Forgiveness = Self Love

I CAN forgive but I will NEVER forget! I mean we study history so we don't make the same mistakes twice right?

Clear the air..
 

Forgiveness??..who am I to forgive?..should I forgive myself? should I forgive others?..hey,the past is the past..and to me,that can mean one day ago.

Not forgetting,now that can be toxic for me...and so,I move on and not lay my bad past experiences onto the new people who come into my life.

At my age,I can't worry about nothing else but what is here at the moment.What I mean is that I live right now,right here,in the present..of course i'm probably more wiser,less trusting,more likely these days to say no to someone.

Still,I am no angel,I make bad mistakes,I have hurt others and their feelings...people have hurt mine...people do that to one another.

Don't let it eat you up inside...we're only human,acting human.

Although I know it is not good for my soul, it can take me decades to forgive (obviously for the big things, not the small things).

My mom died 27 years ago and I just forgave her about 5 years ago. That doesn't mean I didn't love her, I think it is because I love her so much and she was suppose to love me, that it took that long.

I don't ever sweart the small stuff ..... the big stuff hurts. I have something going on with someone right now that very well could matter 5 years from now. I know this person will be one that I won't forgive and will intentionally avoid for the rest if my life. I don't have to wish them bad, I'll just be indifferent towards the situation. When it is all over, I'll never see them ever again and they will never know when I have forgiven because I won't talk to them ever again.

Ubless it is a big thing, I forgive quickly. If it is a big thing, they can plan on never hearing from me again.

accepting the differences in ppl have taught me to forgive ~ there are some things ppl have to forgive themselves for ~

speaks volumes to me.

I think we forgive people because hating them doesn't serve us in any way.

This!

You hit it exactly.:hangloose:

From a place of deep hurt, wounds, and sorrow. It's been a long, long many years that there are people I still need to forgive for hurting me and it's so damn hard. I've accepted things that happened, but I've never been told the words "I'm sorry" or asked to forgive them, for the pain they caused me that wounded me so deeply. I'm learning through music, to let go of the pain, because it's long over due.

Forgiveness is letting go of that pain; and I don't think I was ever really ready to let go until now. It's time, it's been decades, and it's way over due. Time to let go and be still and know that forgiving doesn't mean they asked for it. It needs to just come from me, from a deep place of letting go, and it doesn't I won't remember.

To me, forgiveness is choosing to move on from whatever hurt or pain that you felt at another point in your life; that is still keeping you tied to the past.

In the words of Ram Dass: Be here now.

It is kind of impossible to be in the present when part of you is still dragging the past with you.

It has been the hardest of all of the pain I have borne, to forgive my parents. Sometimes I think that I just don't want to or can't forgive them. I know that it would be better for me as a person, if I did.

Part of me thinks I still have time to deal with it but I am not getting any younger and neither are they.

For me to forgive a loan is to no longer expect payment from the person who owes money.

So I apply that to emotional "debt"
To forgive someone means I no longer want them to do things to make up for what they have done. I forgive their debt to me for damages.

There are things in life that I'm just not going to "get over" and accepting that has helped me accept I won't able to change the damage or scar. It helps me lower my expectations of myself and accept and work around.

In the body, when things get damaged, the body comes up with alternative routes and solutions to work. And that's the way I see it in terms of emotional scaring. I'm never going to get over my brother dying. That's not a realistic expectation. I have learned to accept it and live with it, which give me more peace.
I'm never going to get over the damage my other brother caused. I've forgiven him in terms of his debt to me. I want nothing from him. But I e also come to terms that I won't forgive the past damage. I've tried and it's only hurt me more, to force that on myself. It's ok to not forgive. I can heal without it. I have healed the best of my psyches ability without it and it's pretty good. I expect some scar tissue.

I forgive my exwife the debt she owes me for her actions. But I can't forgive her cruelty, emotionally. That's ok. I have tried over the past four years, and it's just going to be one of those things I'm just not going to be able to get past with her. I care about her, I hope she's happy and I'm good with occasional three times a year updates and hello. But I won't ever be able to trust her, and because I can't trust her it means I don't forgive her in the sense of "wiping the slate clean."

I personally don't think that's possible and I also think that's a stupid idea, considering her track record.

I don't need to forgive her to that extent. Nor do I need to forgive anyone to that extent.

I may be presently crabby with school stress, but my life is the most peaceful it's ever been in my entire experience. So I don't think forgiveness beyond the forgiveness of debit is necessary to be content in life.

I too struggle with the notion of forgiveness. Moreover, I don't think I even subscribe to the notion of forgiveness. And here is why I don't (although I used to):


I think anyone, myself included, can make a conscious decision to accept or not accept situations that do not have our best interests at heart. Being able to say to myself (rhetorical proposition, example), "Am I going to accept x-y-z sets of behavior ? (Absolutely not, if it does not serve my best interest),"

Setting myself free from the social construction of the notion that forgiveness is the answer has liberated from the burden of taking on sh*t that belongs wholly on the perpetrator of such stuff . I can only own my self, my choices, my behaviors, my decisions, which my goal is to act with responsibility that privileges my best interests, with latitude for the best interest of another.

I have more thoughts about this kind of issue because it's not an easy subject to untangle.