I have not read any post past this one.

I focus on girls and women for a reason. Yes, I am against snipping off part of a boy/man penis.......for any reason. I don't think that practice of Judaism (and taken up others), rises to the horrific consequences of mutilating a girl's clitoris and entrance to the vagina.

It is a red herring to bring up snipping off the foreskin and leaving the penis a functional pleasurable sexual organ. It does not relate in any way, shape or form, nor has any connection with rendering a girl/women unable to experience sexual pleasure.

edited to add: and that mutilation continues her role as the vessel for the next generation, while ending her ability to have any pleasure from the act of procreation.

I love you darlin..............that does not mean we cannot disagree. We have a bond that will not be broken.

I will always always question authority. I worry that when we censor words, we censor thought. I am so fucking wrong because I call part of my family breeders.............really???????............Adel e.......ya can't tell me that. They are breeders in the sense they produce the next generation. My family will produce some queers.........we have for generations past. We breed queers. It's a damn good thing. I hope we continue to breed queers. My family breed me.

Do you see my point? I will do my best to not use that word around you. I hear it is hurtful to you and others. I will not stop using that term in reference to mi familia. I want mi familia to breed more who question authority, who do the right thing in spite of the consequences. I want mi familia to breed folks who see the equality in all of us.

Maybe it's because I am from farm and ranch folks and folks who appreciate genetics...........breeding is not a negative term..........it is a term to connotate the products of conception brought to life. It's a term used to promote the best of the species.

this is really another thought in relation to the above post.

Homo sapiens are primates. We are animals. We breed. It is the idea that homo sapiens are somehow above other primates and non-primates that is the epitome of arrogance.

Us white folk have viewed other homo sapiens as less than human. We have used the term 'stud' to mean a male (not white or poor) who looks like a breeder of good strong healthy stock. Yet parts of the butch/femme/queer community embrace 'stud' as an identity.

Are we to remove 'stud' from our white vocabulary? If we do remove 'stud' because of offense to white folk?.........what does that say to black culture who view stud in some kind of equivocalness to butch.

I am lost in this conversation. I don't know who to offend and who not to offend.

The idea behind the term "breeder" is to denigrate women for producing, or overproducing, offspring.

Fair enough. I hear you. I didn't intend it as a red herring to diminish the horror of what happens to women(girls). Genital mutilation is genital mutilation, whether it happens to boy or girl infants.

Sincerely, I do hope you'll contribute to the thread Nat started.

I feel that it is also to *remind* women are their role in the patriarchy.

Like, a this is the reason you're here type o' thing.

I mean, again, I think it can be used either way (sinner/saint thing)



Dylan

As I've said many times, context is everything.

As for FGM - there is no comparison between what is done to boys and what is done to girls, not physically, socially, psychologically, functionally, or culturally.

See the rest of my comments in the GM thread.

me in this color

We can disagree yes. I just want to point out that I am not per se saying that the term is *wrong*. I am saying that it is hurtful. To me.

I am going to have to contact mi familia in Belen and Los Lunas and see how the Queers on the Ranches there feel about the word. Perhaps you have a point in regards to farm and ranch folk. I will go on a quest to find out.

I am not so small minded as to think that my little feelings make something wrong or right. I just know that the word hurts me as a Femme and as a Mother. If I sit around like a good little girl and ignore that? Then what purpose does that serve?

What I really really appreciate is that you can feel that the word is hunky dory and still be sensitive enough to try not to use it around me. Thank you. :rrose:

It just ocurred to me after Toughy's post, that I really dislike the term "queer".

In my world it was used so much to hurt gay people that I twinge every time I hear it.

Then came the 90's and everybody wanted to "take it back" "own it".
I always had a hard time with that concept. Seems kind of silly to me, but it works for some I suppose, therefore it is not silly to them.

I think maybe the term in question has the same feeling to some people. So therefore I get it. I don't feel that way, but they do and that's what counts.

And I know I made several people blink alot, admitting I do not like the term queer.

Still makes me shudder. But I realize it's not about me, it's not used to hurt me (for the most part unless you travel in certain spots here in Maryland). So, I roll with people using that term.

I hope this made sense. I'm rattling...
-Mr. Moon

Moonie, that must be even tougher than *breeder*. Because that term is used on such a large scale nowadays. I will make sure not to call you that and thanks for letting me know.

I wonder about words that carry that kind of power that have been reclaimed now. What if a person doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does?

Language. Argh.:pirate-steer:

It did.. :)
And it was kind of the same thing I was thinking, and figured if i posted at all, that I would say..
I mean I like the word Queer, but I get, that many don't !
I do think context is important with any word, and yes I really do mean

ANY word...

Me, I don't like it when people use cunt as a swear word or to denote a stupid person
Need I explain why ?
But if I am referring to my cunt.. that's a whole nother story :)
Also, a lot is cultural..Not just contextual .. or let us say, they cultural differences, lend to different contextual meanings..

Oh and btw, did anyone come up with any other phrases and/or words , that are used by GLBTQ etc people , to hurt each other? I do believe that was the title of the thread, and maybe even the intent :)

Mr. Moon's comment made me think of how when I used to refer to myself as a dyke at work around the heterosexuals that I have a friendly relationship with, would become horrifed FOR me. "Don't say that...you are not a dyke!". This was their way of saying, oh gosh, has Dapper internalized that slur? :-( We don't want her (most I haven't had the gender conversation with), to do that!

I would have to educate them on how for me dyke is a proud term.

For some reason, they don't react to queer...I think at this point they just let me say whatever and don't question it! LOL

There are the attacks on gender which I and somebody else have mentioned: Shim, HeShe

There is the naming of the Slut: This is particularly hurtful. I think it happens in groups of women when we don't understand each other or are feeling insecure. It is sticky because the word slut when used by ones self can be empowering. When used to tear a woman down it can be really hurtful.

Anybody else?

If an individual doesn't want to reclaim a word but the majority does - really their only "responsibility" it to not use it. If someone doesn't like Queer, nobody is forcing them to say it. You're welcome to articulate why you don't like the word - but don't expect everybody to apologise and never use it again. DO expect everybody to make a mental note of that and not refer to YOU as Queer, however.

And then there's Fat.

I love the word Fat. I think Fat is just about the greatest fucking word in my vocabulary. I'm all about overusing it and desensitizing people to it to the point where when I say it it's clear to the listener that I'm using the same matter-of-fact voice that I would use if I were to mention my freckles.

I think there's a lot of power in taking back Fat.

But, you know, not everybody is on board. And they really don't have to be. I don't get to decide what words make other people uncomfortable.

Sometimes if I reference my Fat it squicks people out. From the co-worker who (so well intentioned) say "Brandy...you are not fat, honey." to lovers who say "I don't think you're fat, I think you're beautiful." (like I fucking can't be both? wtf! I wanna be both!) When that happens the onus is on me to (briefly) explain that I don't think Fat is a bad word, and why, and then move on with my life.

And on four hours of sleep Bete succinctly sums it up. Thank you!

There are words that are going to be one persons trigger and anothers salvation. I suppose the key is opening our mouths and letting each other know what those words are?

Sorry, all those words can be endearing in context ..Seriously ...

I understand. Until they are not, in context....

i don't think i have ever in my adult life used the word "slut" with anything but a tone of approval.

One thing i have heard in our community which reflects the sexism of the culture is disgust expressed for having casual sex or having had sex with numerous partners.

i know this feeling is not uncommon, but i truly wish it were less freely expressed.

By the "naming of the slut" i am talking about a way we femmes ostracize one another and other one another. I don't know how to articulate it.

Me too.

MOST transgender people I know don't find it endearing to be called two genders. Or even the gender they were incorrectly born into.

If you want to be endearing to my Beloved? He or Hy will do. "HeShe" is one step short of just saying freak, and I find it very disrespectful.

I think any word, can be used.. in different ways. They are words.. The context is everything..
If the question is , do I use them ? That's a different question.
There are plenty of words, that one person finds ok, and another is bothered by. Some find a turn on even..
There's tons of words I don't personally want to ever hear around me.. ! But that doesn't mean I don't understand that for some, they are either not offensive, or a term of endearment even.
Its not the words themselves.. Its when and how
A lovely example several years ago, was when someone called a particular female identified Butch, Miss..
Context, is everything, Nothing wrong with the word
and technically, correct.
Context ? insultingly meant .... clearly so..
Even more years ago, when I was a moderator for the GLCF Forum, way back in the stone ages of the Internet.. ! There was a rumor, that certain words were forbidden. Not so... There was a list of words to watch for, to check for context ..Certainly those are words more likely to be used as insults.. But .. not always, and , good grief....seriously, do you all, those who ahh..jumped on this..really think you know everything in everyone's lives and cultures , and exactly what one person might murmur to another , what might bring an intimate blush to one person ?
I don't, and that is my point... !

I think that is a different thing, form the word slut.. I agree that it is very disturbing and I would say,misogynistic .. Serious echos of the idea that women are owned by men, who dictate when and where it is appropriate to have sex ! But I don't think it has anything to do with the specific word slut.,.. !

I agree with this post.

Not looking to make any words forbidden, but when you say to me that you have *only* seen the words shim and shehe used in an endearing way I am going to call bullshit on that.

I am willing to concede that you may have seen them used in an endearing way, but only? Really? You can honestly say those words are not hurtful?

Umm.. maybe you might read back, I never said any such thing... !

I need a bloody mary and maybe some more sleep then, because respectfully MsMerrick it really looked like you were saying those words are endearing words. If not then my mistake and let's carry on...

and the list goes on.....

and therefore, I believe, sometimes we over think and over do all this ummm "stuff" about who said what and what word is best.

I said to my Mom, just the other day.....when we were talking about something like the electric company or some other such frustrating thing (probably that effin oil disaster).... "ya know that fucking pisses me off" and she replied "Yes I'm fucking tired of it"....then she said "oh listen to my language..."....

I, of course, laughed. I said "Mom, it's just a word. A word that "someone" decided they didn't like and therefore labeled it "wrong". (I could list them all...here but someone would be offended I'm sure).

Language. I think words are words. And I have already admitted to some making me shudder. But I also know at that moment that it's NOT ABOUT ME.

Now if you are calling someone names....that's about you and them. And there are many things people do and say in that instance. But the rest of it...

it's words ...language.

-Mr. Moon

Weighing in on heshe
 

i don't think language is *just* language.

i admit to being a certified dweeb geek child who was teased every day of my childhood. i was told to just ignore it. sticks and stones and all...

words are powerful. words can hurt and words can make you ten feet tall. the tongue IS mightier than the sword.

of course it's not always about me. it's about dylan. :candle:

I have a friend, who is femme, and chose to be artificially inseminated. She wanted a child. Is she a breeder? No. She is a Mother and in my book, that's the most supreme acknowledgment/compliment I can give her.

People who have nasty things to say have nasty hearts and even nastier minds.

Yes, exactly so, IMO. However, as I said a few pages back (and Darth brings up again here), in this place, on this site, on this thread, the word offends.
However, please be aware that there are sometimes cultural and ethnic uses of these words that you find offensive that are not always meant to be offensive, and are considered endearments. I think of how AA often use the word "nigg..." to address one another ... there is a twist, a turn, on the old derogatory use of the term. It is akin to the negritude movement, wherein french people of African descent decided to take those derogatory comments about their origins, skin color, stereotypical characterizations, and twist or turn them into something that had positive attributes. There is power in that, you see.

It is NOT that I LIKE hearing this use of the "n word", but common usage does take the sting out of hearing it. So don't get started on me about that. Anyway, we do not always know the intention/s of one another's use of a word, nor the context in which it was uttered. Yet, there are those, no matter how good the intent (informational/instructional, critical thinking, etc.) find it offensive. It is just simply better, then, to leave it the heck alone HERE. And develop another thread to discuss this academically or critically. Punto. I'm done. LOL.

I don't know what to tell you. You quoted me exactly and i read what I said, and what I said was NOT that those words are endearing
I said they can be endearing in context.. All 3 words btw, not just the gender ones....
I did not say, nor did what you quoted say, that They Were Endearments.,.. or that the words themselves, were meant as endearments or endearing in of themselves.. !
the words "in context" give the relative sense of the sentence. .
Is that any more clear?

Like when you addressed me as "little girl" on "that other site"? Luckily, my balls are bigger than even your lack of self-awareness! Sorry, but seeing you 'educate' others on this subject causes my breakfast to sneak back up on me.

Yes, that is more clear. Thanks.

How about we leave the old site at the old site and old grudges where they lay.

Hudson, if Merrick really hurt you all that badly maybe the two of you can discuss that in private. I think it's dirty pool to use something that someone said 1 - elsewhere and 2 - HOW long ago was that (I don't know) as a means of dismissing all of their opinions on all subjects for all eternity.

How about you don't moderate the thread?

I am very aware that a word like "Shim" that may be hurtful to me might not be hurtful to joe schmoe.

What to do when I hit the brick wall of a person who really doesn't care that it's hurtful? I mean there is no rule that it is anyone's responsibility to give a rats ass that a word may cause pain to others.

Am I naive in my hope that others will care?