I know what satire is.

Post-modern... post-feminist... post post post... Post stucturalism... lack of boundaries... respect dissolved. Blah blah blah. No rules, no guidance, our elders left in the dust. There will come a time where we understand that to honor each other doesn't mean that we that we need this kind of so called "satire" to understand each other. We can talk and even have humor about our stereotypes (and they do exist) without reinforcing patriarchal sterotypes .... and there I go showing my generational experience...

Mary D called this type of thing degrading and not enlightening... reinforcing stereotypes... and not groundbreaking. Indeed it is NOT groundbreaking.. merely reinforcing what is... weakened women taken by... well ya know...

I am sorry.. Butch is better than this... and I know that. I live it. Butches living outside the patriarchal paradigm... and transmasculine.... trans... stud/aggressive/macha/macho.... dudes...

Political humor gets much smarter than this... and if you want to defend it? I say you exist within a paradigm that is very very old. There truly exists lesbian, butch/femme, trans, femme... etc... humor ... that exists.. that transcends this stereotypical yada yada... blah blah blah.... very old crap...

Bull dog, you asked why people who believe it's crappy written poor satire by untalented idiots don't worry about the message. I'm one of those people. The answer is: because those who believe it's crappy written satire by talentless idiots also believe that satire mocks behaviour your don't want. Thus it doesn't cause concern, badly written crap or not. I can't explain it any simpler than that.

I am not a simpleton and don't need simple explanations.

rape is rape is rape and no matter how its delivered, its still rape. The fact they can get people to laugh at it, informs me that their purpose, whether realized or not, is to diminish the culpability of the rapists and minimize the anguish of the victims.

AND may I point out, once again, it is a "fairy tale" of pitting women against women...they arent step sisters or evil stepmothers or wicked witches nowadays. No...they are lesbian cougars.

humour is a cultural vehicle to transmit a culture's values and beliefs. If you can get someone to laugh at it, you can get them to embrace it.

for me and mine, we refuse to embrace violence against women, as well as pitting women against women...

I wasn't calling you a simpleton. ?????????????????????????
it's a simple answer because the explanation is actually simple.
I don't find it offensive because it's satire. ergo the message is against what it's depicting. you *did* ask bully. I'm not insulting you, I'm being sincere and answering your question why someone who thought it was poorly written satire wasn't concerned about the message. So I explained why. There's no insult intended and I wasn't calling you stupid. Jesus bully you've known me for years. I don't think you are even *slightly* simple.

I completely disagree. people use humour to address very serious issues. I've been raped. many, many times. and because I can laugh not at rape but at a rapist, because if rape is depicted in satire (and I don't mean this pile of untalented shit) I understand it's against the rapist for their behaviour. Like in Nighty-night the humour is against the serial killer woman, not the woman being beaten up and her child being stolen.

you won't see me supporting child theivery and the abuse of pregnant women because I laughed at the complete absurdity of the Serial killers (the blonde woman had killed many boyfriends) behaviour.

Many people use humour in their opposition. So I really really do not agree with your principle statement.

I don't think there's enough evidence in this video to construe it as some sort of sophisticated satire wherein the film makers lampoon stereotypes of lesbians as predators and college-aged women as sexually vulnerable drunks in order to criticize those stereotypes. The video just isn't that meta. Certainly the depiction of an overly drunk girl hitting the ground and being groped doesn't seem rife with subversive messages about her condition. Rather, it just gets some cheap laffs in at the expense of women.

That is my take. Oh, also it's unfunny crap.

Yes, exactly.

HB, yes we have known each other online for years, and of course I have plenty of respect for you and like you. Your argument here, and those of others, still seems to be we are just too dense to figure out this is satire (no matter how poorly conceived) or what the point of satire is in the first place, and therefore it doesn't matter. I strongly disagree. I know damn well what satire is and what the point of it is. I also strongly disagree with what you said to Softness. All I can do is shrug at this point, I guess.

Again, it seems women in general, and lesbians more specifically, are open to all sorts of degradation, ridicule and offense that is not tolerated for other groups- both here and in the world at large, by women as well as males.

you can disagree with me...but that is the purpose it serves in a culture.

I'd also disagree with that. That's not what I learned in Anthropology. And also from personal expereince. I do not agree with everything I laugh at/with.


absolutely not what I am saying. you ASKED. how the hell am I to give a direct answer about why something doesn't bother me - because erverytime I say "because it's satire and that means it's supportive of opposite of what it's depicting so why should I worry about something it doesn't support"
you answer "I know what satire is and I'm not stupid."

how ELSE am I supposed to answer if that IS my answer?? that's exactly how I feel and if you would like me to explain it in a way that somehow circum navigates some bizzarre insecurity about intelligence around sense of humour you are fresh out of luck.

If it Isn't satire and it's literal humour, then YES, I agree, it's hideously offensive. And Maria has said than in her opinion it's NOT satire - therefore I agree it's something to worry and get pissed off about. I'm actually thinking possibly maria is right, that it's not.

but I'm not schooling you on satire. I would like to point DIRECTLY to you ASKING people who felt it was satire. you asked, you get answer.

if you think a simple answer is someone calling you stupid, jesus bull dog. Actually, that's an incredibly unfair response and I'm rather upset.

In fact, you can play here without me. this is ridiculous.

I am not the slightest bit insecure about my intelligence/lack thereof or anyone else's. I don't get why you are offended if it's satire and not offended if it is- even if poorly done. That sounds like, oh the poor guys made a bad video but they didn't mean it. They were trying to be satirical.

Shrug

(my corrections)

I have explained several times, and you informed me I was insulting your intelligence. I told you I'm not playing any more. go play with yourself.

Old thread I stumbled on... but hits a chord because in the last couple months or so, a woman I know who identifies as a lesbian (not on this thread), hosted an event she called Cougars and Kittens for lesbian singles looking to date people much older or younger than themselves. She just turned sixty and finds young women very hot, and refers to that as her preference.

It made me uncomfortable, and not because I'm opposed to people dating people outside their age group; as is true for most, I've met and been friends with a number of butch-femme folks and others in very disparately-aged relationships, and it is just no big deal—but something about this cougar-kitten thing bothered me.

Maybe the fetishizing of age? Even if it's not fair to use "fetishizing," even if I just say, it's the preference for someone several generations up or down the scale that bothers me, that isn't consistent with who I am. Who cares if someone has a size preference or other "type" preference based on physical traits; don't many people have a "type"? Me, I like tall. Tall turns my head. Tall and handsome makes me go into flirt-mode and tall, handsome and kind totally melts me. But while I don't want to police the preferences of others, I also happen to usually be drawn to women in my general age group, late forties to late fifties-ish. I don't think about it, it just seems to naturally occur that way for me.

I don't know then, why the Lesbian Cougars and Kittens thing bugged me so much. Like, she wanted me to post it on my Facebook page and I just felt like I couldn't get behind it. If I can articulate it better, I'll come back and do so. For now I just wanted to mention the event, because it happened in the LGBT community and seemed like a phenomenon in response to the cultural popularity and satirization of "cougars" that this thread is about.

I wouldn't be against it (a cougars and kittens event) though I'd be unlikely to attend. I know quite a few women who are attracted to women 15+ years their junior. I'm not that old so that's pretty young :tease:

The problem is meeting those women. In your 20's and 30's you can still go to bars and feel relatively comfortable. In your 40's/50's what are you going to get out of a bar full of drunk women, spilled beer and immature 18 year old's? I'm having a hard enough time now and many of my friends are still partying!

Far better to organise your own night so you can meet women in relative civility.

I agree, Quintease, that the bar scene is very skewed toward younger women. I remember waiting for a bathroom in a bar and accidentally cutting in line, then quickly pulling back and apologizing—but as I was walking away, I heard a young butch say to another very young person, "Jesus, did you see that lady cut in line?" I knew "that lady" was not how they'd describe someone their age.

So yeah, it's not a comfortable scene many time for older folks and I'm sorry to hear that's true in the U.K. as well. But there are also lots of comfortable outlets for people over 40, at least in the NYC area. I can't speak for the rest of the country except Provincetown, of course, where the street are a sea of grey hair, on the high-season weekends.

Not funny.

Taking advantage of drunk young women, even more not funny.

Why is there not an equivalent word for an older man with a younger woman or an older gay man with a younger man?

Sure, there is the phrase "sugar daddy" but it is only used in the context of an older, wealthy man and younger woman- not a middle class or poor older man.

Do I think there is anything wrong with an older woman with a younger one? Depends on the age difference. My butch is 10 years younger than I am. Our values and outlook on life are extremely similar.

I could not really see myself with anyone 15-20 years younger. That would be heading into the ages of my daughters and would be getting a little creepy for me personally.

Do I judge anyone else if they do? No.

The video just was not humerous for me based on the premise of going after intoxicated young women.

So yeah, I forgot to say, that video that this threads opens with—not funny.

And I love parody, and watch Kids in the Hall and Eastbound and Down and all kinds of crazy shit. But this one, no. Lesbians as predators of drunk girls, too loaded a gun. Don't play with it.

I haven't even watched the video and I'm getting the impression that I don't need to.

I can see the "intended" humor behind it and the fact that it was extremely exaggerated. I did think it was stupid, and not funny. It reminded me of the tacky skits from "The State", just completely politically incorrect. Seeing the woman hugging and talking to the girl who was passed on the lawn was just disgusting. I am sure some people would think it is funny, but you would need the frame of reference and maybe have a few drinks before watching it, I dunno. Lol.

;)

I realize that this is an old thread.

I thought the video was so funny. It was done tongue in cheek.
I thought it was no more offensive the "the real L word". LOL!