I have thought about this a lot.

First let me say that I think it is incredible that this website even wants to have a DA ambassador and that anyone wants to take that on.

What I see, kind of jumping off what Medusa said is sometimes different dissabilities intersect in a negative and dangerous way. Say someone with no filters and an anger disorder spouts off something that is very detrimental for someone with PTSD.

Volatile situation.

Whose disoder is worse or trumps the other?

Or is it ok for the person with anger opportunities to be able to insult other members at all? disorder or no?

I think the TOS has to be the wall at which it stops. Can you follow the rules after being given time outs and suggested coping mechanisms you refuse to take advantage of. Is your behavior hurtful and detrimental to other members?

Do my rights stop where someone else's begin?

SF - You were clear. My apologies. I did mis-read your post - and thats why it bothered me! lol

That is a prime example of how the fallout issues of a physical disability can impact our posting. Today is fibro flare. Hence, my misreading of your post - fibro fog.

My apologies.

No biggie. If anyone understands misreading a post, it's me.

Fibro flares are awful, do take care to be gentle with yourself.

[QUOTE=christie0918;155636]
I do think, however, Belle brings up an issue that I, too, think is problematic in two ways: (1) What if the DA person having an issue doesn't feel a rapport with SF? In following that train of thought, to me, having the hierarchy or next step in the process, what if the DA person doesn't feel comfortable in speaking with a moderator or administrator? These persons, while active, participating community members also have a position of authority and I think something to think about is how that might not feel safe.

(2) Its also been my observation and interpretation that most of the neuro DA's might not see that they even need to ask for assistance. Most of the times when Bratboy has gotten into sticky communication issues, he doesn't see that his behavior is the problem or how what he said/did is offensive/crossing a boundary. How can we, as a community, expect a neuro DA, especially those with communication differences, to have the capacity to know that they need to ask for help? I have issue with expecting a neuro DA person be accountable when they might not have the cognitive ability to look outside of self to see where their part of the issue is the problem.

Its also why I thought that a peer system of folks who aren't dual-roled as both moderators/position of authority and community members might be a viable supplement to the current process. For instance, Belle might be more comfortable in reaching out to me to ask for clarification of a post rather than having to ask a Moderator, whose role as Moderator is one of "task master". I'm just an equal. I think sometimes, even the NT folks have trouble seeing a Moderator as also a peer - I know I do in spite of the additional efforts the Moderators go to in clarifying from which position they are speaking.

Again, I hope that everyone understands that I am not saying there is anything wrong with, nor am I being unsupportive of the DA Ambassador role/process. I just see how we might be able to supplement it so that we can further dispel the mythical pass perceptions.

Christie, i could not agree more with your post, and selected the paragraphs above, because of my own thoughts with regard to a peer system/equal for issues perhaps in need of clarification. i would feel comfortable reaching out to you or Cyclopea, for a lot of reasons, but mainly fair-mindedness. i'm thinking about something SuperFemme wrote to me in an earlier post about being able to separate sites- and just briefly wanted to add that i do understand there are some differences, but basically, the people are the same, and my processing operates on 'patterns and connections' to experiences. in other words, if Cyclopea and Christie have interacted with me in positive or neutral ways for years, do not skip my posts, or ignore my contributions - rep notes, quotes, pms, and/or posts, on a regular basis [because i do notice things], and i can see that Christie and Cyclopea seem to be like this with people across the board, have a solid awareness of AT/AS processing- then i'm going to feel a lot 'safer' with approaching for clarification. i would rather honestly know what / whom i'm dealing with online out in the open, rather than my being here and simply 'tolerated', because away from the computer, i enjoy challenging conversations without so many areas of confusion.

probably another reason i'd chose a peer is that person may not be very 'popular', and if she [or he] happens to be an aspie, and/or creative type with sharp ideas for important discussion, though topics might get frequently misunderstood / read as being somewhat trouble-making, and if the peer can be found dwelling a bit on the fringes of online communities, i'm pretty certain i'll relate to a few of the reasons why.

violane, you are free to seek out help/advice from whomever you choose.

medusa addressed that in her post.

but if you don't trust the mods/admins? it's going to be difficult if for the very fact that there is noone left to apply solutions.

i'd also like to speak to popularity because what one sees and what one does not see can have a lot of impact. i don't feel "popular" what i do feel is gratitude for the kindness and healing thoughts from the membership here.

i am dying. i am pretty much trapped on an island (my bed) with my computer. which grants me access to the only community i have.
and i eternally grateful for this space. why? because from an act of love by two people, this site is here for us to enjoy.

two people with full time jobs that make no money from this site. two people that cannot get on days peace.

so to be anything but grateful (for me me me) would feel like entitlement.
i don't do entitlement, and trust me living with a different ability cured me of that. living with a terminal illness that keeps making me sicker and sicker keeps me cured.

i have to wonder if you distrust of me is really about the fact that my best friend is dating your ex? because it absolutely feels like that to me, and i understand you feeling that way. i do. if it is of any comfort to you, we have never ever had a conversation in which your name was brought up.

i respect you, and embrace you with AS. not only do i embrace you...i spend at least part of every day reading everything i can about AS. i am invested in making sure that the powers that be on this site understand you for just who you are. not some standard of expected behavior.

so apparently my question has ruffled some feathers.

i get it, and gave a lot of thought to my post. in the end i decided it would be diminishing to violane to not ask her. the same as i would ask anyone else.

so i apologize. my question was valid but that portion of my post should have been in pm. i'm fully ready to accept the consequences.

my feathers may get ruffled but not because you're 'right'.
 

SuperFemme wrote:

i have to wonder if you distrust of me is really about the fact that my best friend is dating your ex? because it absolutely feels like that to me, and i understand you feeling that way. i do. if it is of any comfort to you, we have never ever had a conversation in which your name was brought up.

dear SuperFemme,

you've 'got your rights' to wonder, and/or have feelings :) i sure do a lot of wondering myself, and sure, your question could have been asked in a PM to me - whether or not i'm not even thinking of [which is one thing] or discussing your best friend, her partner, or any friendships/relationships i've had in the past [which is another thing]. i can assure you that your best friend and her partner were not part of my model/post/processing.

so, feathers getting ruffled for me, are due to : comments about how you 'understand my feeling that way/my name not being brought up/ 'we' have never had conversation about you. . . .' does read very publically boundary-crossing/strange to me.

if my own truth is being disputed here, and drama being brought in about people i'm not even having any personal drama with!! then how will having an ambassador in place work?




thank you.

I am interested in this question too.

If someone is given suggestions they ignore and numerous time outs, when is enough enough?

Is there actual banning on this website? or do people just get timed out again and again over the same significant breaking of the TOS like racism, sexism, calling names etc.

I am a fan of the warning and time out system, I am not arguing with that, but consistent offenders. Is there a too much?

Makes sense! :)

well, yes it is there call...not questioning that at all. I am just wondering what their "cap" is..

I don't think there is a one size fit's all answer for the question both you and softness bring up.

I *do* know that the site owners take into consideration a DA members challenges and how that might affect the way a person filters, or has a lack of filters.

I do know that the site owners are very aware that for many people, this is the only available "community". It is not at all a light decision to take away access.

Of course, if someone is continuously threatening members or breaking the TOS? That is going to force a hand, so to speak.

Everyone deserves to feel safe, and while people are going to make mistakes? it is up to the person NOT to make the same mistakes over and over.

I hope I have managed to confuse you with my answer. :byebye:

No, that makes sense.

I am glad that banning is not taken lightly and yes, everyone deserved to feel safe.

Makes sense, thank you for responding in moderator tone, but not you are in trouble tone. Grin!

Even trying to wrap my own mind around how to deal with my own crossed boundaries as an individual is difficult.

This subject is something I do keep tossing around, thank you for helping us process and stay on track. :)

I appreciate the answers given and feel that (as if it counts at all in regard to this) it matches my own expectations.

I get into skirmishes too, online. I appreciate it when I am handled with care, but firmly. June addressed me one time...and she addressed me, rather than "dressing me down". Her firm tact actually made me feel comfortable rathr than confronted. I learned from that interaction and have (hopefully) done as requested.

I dont want anyone banned. I was simply asking the inevitable question...

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;156608]violane, you are free to seek out help/advice from whomever you choose.

medusa addressed that in her post.

but if you don't trust the mods/admins? it's going to be difficult if for the very fact that there is noone left to apply solutions.

i have to wonder if you distrust of me is really about the fact that my best friend is dating your ex? because it absolutely feels like that to me, and i understand you feeling that way. i do. if it is of any comfort to you, we have never ever had a conversation in which your name was brought up.

if you want to know why i'm weary of you it's because of a pm you wrote to me assuring me that everything was indeed private, as ambassador DA, and there would be no disclosure of personal information. right after that pm, you composed the post here, and i am quoting you.

i could have understood if you put it out in the thread any feelings you were having about you in your post- but when things get turned around on me, where is taking responsibility [in. the. act. ] ?

it felt terribly deliberate.

how would you feel, as an Ambassador, if information [true or not about you, but personal], were put out in a thread- rapid response to something you wrote, and i was not exactly sticking to my own feelings, but dragging in unnecessary drama?

it's not just about me then when that was posted to me, it's also about the people you want to be ambassador?

is that ohk with you? and would i get 'away' with what you do? these are the VERY SLIPPERY SLOPES i deal with here. you just created one that i didn't need to encounter. it does have an impact on me - thought you should know!



thank you.

It is apparent that we all have slip ups and bad days and say things we wish we had not.

Maybe we all need that Pass some days. :)

DA or not DA.

We all process information and what is and is not OK differently and lash out when we are hurt.

It could be medicines taken
Pain
Fibro Fog
Brain Injuries
Neurological Opportunities
Cultural differences
English as a second or third language
Rural as opposed to Urban experiences (and I mean living in a large city, not code word Urban)
general fussiness
etc.

Do we need a pass?

I know some days I am hella glad we all get one. :)

Does everyone get the same number of chances? I am not aware of a rash of actual banning, so it seems we do in the large picture.

I do think some personalities and pasts work better together than others, which why I suggested a back up plan, but understand any changes or suggestions should not come from me.

Yeppers.

Being able to look into our own stuff when we do make mistakes says it all to me. We are a passionate, bright, struggling, human group... and sometimes we just blow it!

When I realize pain and meds, lack of good sleep and just life is kicking me in the gut and my responses come from this place, I need to sit back and have a talk with myself. All of the education and years of work as a therapist don't mean beans for me at these moments because what I need to do is just about self-reflection and figuring out how I can just be a better person!

I think it's pretty clear that it means different things to different people.

To ME what this thread is about is not changing the rules of the TOS for anyone. Differently abled or not. We all need to be responsible for our behavior.

What I am NOT talking about in terms of a mythical pass is empathy and compassion for our DA'd population here. I think that it's been said quite eloquently by the admins/mods that a lot of time/energy is given DA'd people who have issues that make it not a simple process to communicate.

Then there are the folks who passionately want the membership to ignore the inappropriateness/feelings of danger when dealing with a DA'd person who claims they "can't help it" or believes that their different ability excuses bad behavior.

I think people in general will rise to the level of expectations.

I really believe that we can be excellent support for each other in a strive to make sure that involvement on this site is safe. For everyone.

But what about when we have a really bad day and break the rules. We know that our intentions are pure, but what if the "membership" feels threatened?

I say, on those days, we need a pass.

Do the TOS needs to be changed? No.

But I like the way the owners and mods try to take a variety of things into account when moderating and giving time outs.

Is the difference how many people feel threatened? How bad the infraction is? Like is a sin and sin, or are there different levels?

Do we really need to quantify it? I know when I cross the line and I imagine most everyone else does, also.

I had a conversation with a friend once about "breaking the rules" and she said her decision as to whether or not to break them was based on the consequences. If she was just going to be in a little bit of trouble then she often would decide to do something she knew she wasn't supposed to do. Of course, we were also talking about things we did as teenagers, not things we did as adults.

I think, in this context, it's not about how much is "ok" because, frankly, if you are cognitively aware of the line and intentionally choose to push right up to it and maybe poke a toe over, then, in my opinion, you don't get any pass at all.

However, if you truly aren't aware there is a line, then the admin/mods will step in and help with the situation.

I think everyone has bad days. Frankly? Mine was yesterday. I was subsequently moderated.

I don't think it's a pass for the admins/mods to take into consideration all factors involved. I see it pan out in a very fair and equitable manner across the board.

When it becomes a pass is when the behaviors are repeated over and over and no matter how many times the admin/mods take the time out to work with said person? they still keep on doing the same shit over and over.

Threatened = Sexually inappropriate. Harassment. PM's that are clearly threatening.

We as a membership should probably always take the opportunity to apologize behind the scenes and if possible? Work it out. I think we do a great job of that.

I hope this post had some sense of meaning. My neurons are so not transmitting today. :(

I dont know anythig about a pass...never had one.Mom said deffness isnt a reason for a pass,just get up and do more than the rest,in thery thats ok but has its own probs in the doing more than the rest cause the rest think u are bing a snot and trying to up stage them.Never had special ed either,dont do sign but do read lips pretty good.My hearing has gotten worse over the years and I have total fade outs wich are really weired when it happends its like watching silent movies..real strange feeling to be shure.All this thing in the main stream life have been dificult at best,did it make me stronger..yeah in one reguad but it did make me angry that "normal" what ever that is has so many priviledges for just being normal.The non discrimanton act is suposed to helps su that need it but imho..dosent do squat when u need it..I know been there dont that.

The last post last line should read....Been there done that...sorry typo.

But it's not safe. It's the internet. Which is why I assume June posted what she did above that I highlighted. As the old saying goes "If you don't want to be read, don't publish a book."

Mine either! :(

Adorable thanks for your post.
I think June and I are speaking to different things re: safety.
This IS the internet and it's all out there for everyone to see. Forever.
BUT, POC have a right to feel safe (i.e., not seeing racism in thread after thread). I think the site has done a great job re. that kind of safety.
Women have a right not to endure sexual harassment, being unwillingly objectified. I think the site does a great job of that too.
DA'd people have a right to not be treated as second class citizens. I think again, that the site does a great job. They also do a great job of working with everyone based on their limitations.

I also agree about capacity. Again, there is some hard work going on behind the scenes to accommodate different levels of capacity.

As for rising to the level of expectations? I believe that because I've seen it happen over and over again. In occupational therapy, where if not pushed some of us wouldn't have ever talked, walked, or learned to swallow again. In brain injury rehab for two years? I saw it every single day. Most memorable were the complete 180's some did. One person didn't want to do the work, and was quite happy being miserable. So the teachers set the bar higher. Three of those students secretly became passionate about "doing the work" and rose from their wheel chairs to walk for graduation. Breathtaking.

I'm NOT talking about anything in particular. Not at all. This is very general.

I wonder, how in the world we gauge who is appropriately offended? That sounds presumptive to me, and I am unsure there is fairness in attempting to do so. Not that I am set in stone one way or another, just not sure about putting the burden on a person who is being harassed, stalked, or threatened.

I know there is no one right answer, I wasn't meaning to give the impression that there was.

I just choose to have faith in mankind and believe that people are coming from a good place.

I am also aware that this site is not easy to navigate, and that if someone has the capacity to do so, then it is not a huge expectation to require people to follow the TOS. The range of how that is achieved is going to look very different for a DA'd person than it is for somebody who is not DA'd. Never the less it would be giving a false sense of "being above the law" to a DA'd person to NOT require following the TOS. Offline? One must obey the rules. If one can only walk? Then it is pretty important to know the laws. Not doing so can result in severe consequences, even death. One must pay for things at the store, or face a jail sentence. One must follow the rules if one takes public transportation that is specifically for DA'd persons, or one can find themselves banned from using that service.

The public in general is uncomfortable with DA'd people. I have so many awful stories...like having a grand mal seizure and coming to with a gun in my face. Security guard was convinced the seizure was either a) demonic or b) the result of a drug overdose. I cannot tell you how terrifying that was. I have had police called on me for all sorts of reasons pertaining to my different ability. It can truly be miserable sometimes.

I don't want anyone to go after a DA'd person. It is my dream that we will act accordingly. I didn't mean to leave the impression that there should be a no tolerance policy for DA'd people. That is not at all what I am discussing.

I'm sorry your brain was swelling. Been there, done that and it sucks. Big.
Random thought, I know. I just have lived with it and understand what it can do. :canadian:

If someone is dangerous why are they still here?

Otherwise who is to say that AS people even want to change or should to make things easier for others?

I try to learn from experiences and to appogize a lot and thank people for their help, not everyone feels that way. Many deaf people do not want to hear...Autistic people can like their way of being. I am sure there are other examples as well.

People who don't take their medicine so they can be more artistic?

Do we give them passes? I think it is important that we do.

Not everyone can increase their capacity, or even wants to.

I think Liam's? suggestion of a buddy system in the most severe cases, if there is someone who wants to help and everyone is agreeable.

On another site, I acted as a "buddy" for someone who had very poor social skills, could not read or chose not to read social cues and was sexually inappropriate to the point of making people so uncomfortable they considered calling in the police. I offered to be their buddy to help them not get kicked off the site.

I was SO stupid!

What I found out after awhile was this was much larger than what was being presented, and all that was being presented as DA wasnt necessarily DA. At least not in the diagnosis given. (There has to be some reason for someone created that much drama and crisis to get attention. )

I stepped back and took a good look at the interaction of this person with everyone. There was a definite pattern. I did an intervention online with this person and basically became a target of theirs afterwards. But at least I was out of their loop of frenzy...

The reason I bring this up, is that by attempting to help someone socialize in a group setting, by offering a buddy to help out, makes the buddy responsible (and thus the admins and mods as well as the "buddy") and if this person who is aided escalates or becomes confrontational or hostile to the cueing, and decides to act out and harms someone, the buddy and admins and mods will be set up for liability since they took the responsibility.

I realized after my personal experience just how scared I should have been. Sometimes, what you see online is only the tip of the ice burg....

and also, people hide diagnosis ...and some will self-assign diagnosis without therapeutic assignment. Just because it quacks like a duck doesnt mean its not a chicken in duck's feathers...

I like the idea of an ambassador where someone can GO to the ambassador if they need help

but I am really opposed to a Buddy goes to them and walks them thru their postings and interactions and watches out for their inappropriate behaviors. Makes me very uneasy...

So sorry this happened to you. You make a good point that there are on line predators.

You know, that does make sense, if someone refuses to use the ignore button, then why would they listen to someone supposed to help them.

We need to be very careful who we give our phone numbers to. Very careful.

and your addresses, and work place names and towns, and your personal emails...

online predators arent always child molesters. Sometimes they are people who like to create chaos..it serves as a way of feeling in control. If they are the one creating the chaos, then they can affect its pace and direction. And this chaos is attention serving. They also "groom" their victims just like a child molester grooms his victims. Bonding, isolating, splitting behaviors (he said this about you, so he isnt my friend anymore..you are!) creating a codependency between you and them, stroking your ego (I fell for this and ashamedly, I admit it. Taught me a valuable lesson), etc. Once groomed, you are invested with someone who is a master/mistress of manipulation. And yes, they ARE DA...but as others have said, none of us are acting as therapists or social workers on this site. And this level of behavior can exceed appropriate behavior for ANYONE on this site..

these kind of folks are rarer than a albino zebra. But they are around, and I did find one on another site. I had to take a good hard look at why I fell for this. And it was ego based. (Working hard on that now.) 99.9% of the people you meet online will not be anything like this. But .01% will be.

I have learned not to give out too much information too soon.

I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got.

Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost.
Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules.

A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. Not about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member.

I *hear* the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive.

I am also not demanding people come to me for anything. I *am* here should anyone choose to do that, but please, feel free to look to your peers or whomever it may be that can be of assistance. Hell go right to the mods/admins if you have an issue. But please? Don't not go to anyone. If something is not addressed, it can not be changed.

Softness? I wanted to thank you for sharing your experience, that was really valuable information. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. :seeingstars:
But? It sounds like you have done the hard work around it and that it won't easily happen again. That is success. (f)

Anyone that does feel ok about coming to me? Pls know that you can do so for any number of reasons. My goal is to make sure that the site is aware of any changes needed, and that we have proper outreach to differently abled members. :bunchflowers:

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;157752]I would like to reiterate this: Nobody is being asked to change. Or to "grow their capacity". I want that to be very clear. Asking people to work with the capacity that they already have is not asking anyone to change. It is not asking people to suddenly have a greater capacity. Simply to work with what you've got.

Also, I would like to once more be super clear about what the "Mythical Pass" is that I am referring to. Because I feel that the definition keeps getting lost.
Mythical Pass = not requiring a differently abled person to follow the rules.

A pass is NOT about giving somebody leeway. N''ot about choosing to act/interact with a person when concerns come up. Not about abandoning the empathy & compassion with which the admin/owner treat everyone with. Not a witch hunt. Not about advocating (or not) for another member.

I *hear* the AS members and their concerns. There is no agenda, and nobody is complaining about you. Nor asking you to change. I feel like this pass issue has struck a chord that is not positive.

SuperFemme,

i was thinking about something-

when you write that the 'definition keeps getting lost' and/or the pass issue has 'struck a negative chord' - i'm wondering if it's because there are other DA people in this thread, and not everyone will see things the way you see/comprehend them?

i probably will not/cannot process exactly the same as another aspie- but we may have a better understanding of things we try to communicate between ourselves, due to at least, some of the AT wiring. maybe i have the most reasons/times for editing [smile].

does this make sense?