Butch Femme Planet - Small Plane Crashes in Austin Tx

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[quote=Ashlea?;54895]

Quote:

Just because I happened to dredge up a woman being killed, does not mean the incident was geared towards violence against women, but violence against humanity, mmkay thanks.

Logical line of whateverwhatever : People don't just up and fly into buildings. Something sets them off. What might that be? Hm... I'm sure the fact that he is an incredibly intelligent person will not register with you.He's a psychopath right? Right.

Bit funny.

*Puts down buyersguide* mhmhm you can have them instead. Not my cup of tea..

Your welcome.

Me too.

It's "you're". The contraction for ''you are'' is "you're".

You're welcome.

Great job of going into someones lovely home and taking a big nasty dump right in the middle of their new living room. And then blaming them for your doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashlea? (Post 54897)

As I pointed out, I'm laughing...Laughing hysterically. Report away. And ban if you feel necessary, won't ruin my night. I hardly think I have used language that is overly offensive. Since when is "fool" the worst of an insult arsenal.

But its whatev. Do what you must.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashlea? (Post 54897)

Well I was hoping to finally find an intellegent gay community. WOO was I wrong. Ban hamma, awayyyyyYyyyyy.

Wow...you are about as offensive as they come.

I think intelligence is with those who have the capacity to understand that any form of violence, whether it be directed at a child, a woman or a government, is unacceptable.

[quote=Ashlea?;54895][quote]
Dear Judgey McJudgerson,

How dare you? This site is full of caring, loving and compassionate people.
Coming into a thread that is about a particular incident and finger pointing at everyone telling them they don't care about violence against women?

Quote:

We have ALL read why he did it. But that still doesn't make it right.
It sounds like you are trying to tell us that because he had his reasons, it makes it ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashlea? (Post 54897)

Well I was hoping to finally find an intellegent gay community. WOO was I wrong. Ban hamma, awayyyyyYyyyyy.

Ashlea?,

You have indeed found an intelligent gay community. One that expects communication without juvenile name-calling.

You are now on a 3-week time-out. (ending March 14)

I hope that you will take some time to consider communicating in a more effective manner. I will also remind you that there are many other folks in this community besides yourself and that we value clear, concise, thoughtful communication - not vomiting up negativity on a screen.

Thanks,
Admin

The local news just did a piece on the aftermath of this event. It said that the powers that be are now looking into tighter restrictions at municipal type airports and for private planes.

yeah...way to stick it to the IRS huh?

dammitt............I was not paying attention..........I missed a *popcorn* opportunity......
:toypony:

I am so glad that I wasn’t reading and posting in this thread during the time some of the timed-out posting occurred. Since this happened, I have had a personal jolt come back that would have probably caused me to go off in a way that would get me permanently kicked outta here! I already was holding back with some of the posts.

I was very freaked-out when I heard about this. One reason was because we have quite a few members living in Austin and I do know some work in government offices. Secondly, the woman I was with for 21 years worked for the same agency in 1995 in which the head of the agency was killed by the Unabomber. As I was driving home from my office on the day that he had sent one of his packages to this office, I experienced fear and panic like I never have. The news on the radio was sketchy at best and I couldn’t reach her due to the chaos going on in that office. She was out in the field at the time of the incident and was OK, but I had no way of really knowing this.

I dated a woman from NY for a time and developed a close friendship with her that was in the Twin Towers on 9/11. And on that day I was once again awaiting news from relatives living in Pennsylvania near the site of the plane that was hijacked and went down. When I worked for a publicly funded AIDS foundation in the mid-1980’s, we were evacuated due to bomb threats more than a few times.

This stuff un-nerves me. I know it does for a lot of people. I also know that we in the US have no idea of what it is like to live with these kinds of threat every single day of our lives. Although, what about those that live in US cities in which drive-by shootings occur almost weekly? There are other examples.

So, even when I can understand some of the mistrust of government entities and even have some of my own reservations about government actions, the insensitivity of some of the posts truly amaze and appall me. Why people think that they can spew this stuff without regard for others that might have had similar experiences or live where these actions are part of their everyday life, boggles my sensibilities.

I bet that for every incident such as this, there are many people here that have had some kind of incident happen to them that evokes the very same feelings of panic, terror and pain. My experiences are not unique. Why posters would not consider this just plain makes me angry and I find this behavior to be the height of narcissistic thinking and personal entitlement.

I agree completely. And as soon as I heard a plane flew into a building I instantly had a sick feeling in my stomach. Deja vu all over again? :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Bo (Post 53821)

Yeah....how bout my question of if you think what he did was ok because he was mad at the gov't?

He was attacking the govt. which screwed him over something fierce. he set the house on fire so the IRS would not get anything out of it. do you think the govt. gives a shit about his wife and child? they were taking the house period.

they do it often. pay your pound of flesh or lose everything you own and end up homeless. payment plan? after slapping on their punishment fees. they proceed to take everything you own. thats their payment plan.

i think what he did was what he saw as the only thing left to do after watching them take everything he had.

remember the boston tea party?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwalker (Post 55708)

From what I've been reading though it doesn't sound like it was a one time thing with this guy. He has had IRS problems for 20 years. Some of it had to be of his own doing. He is not blameless. I don't see him as a victim of the IRS. He sees himself as this helpless victim and that's where I have a problem with him. Then he turns around and victimizes innocent people. But this whole victim mentality really irks me. It isn't any secret what the IRS does if you screw around with taxes. Its not that hard to keep records. Its not that hard to hire someone to do your taxes for you. Its not that hard to pay your taxes (well it is painful writing that check every quarter). But you get my meaning. I'm not supporting the IRS or making any comments about tax laws, taxing, tax rates, fairness and so on etc. And I know people get fed up paying taxes and seeing how the money is wasted by the government. I'm talking about this guy and his lack of personal responsibility.

Rufus

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwalker (Post 55708)

He was attacking the govt. which screwed him over something fierce. he set the house on fire so the IRS would not get anything out of it.

If he set his house on fire as a statement to the gov't, why did he do it with his wife and kid inside (who, from what I remember reading, barely managed to get out)?

And, I could be mistaken but his estate is still responsible for the taxes. This means his wife will likely be left with the bill at the end of all this.

I don't think he took the best way out. He took the way that was the most selfish and self-serving. If he wanted to be courageous, why not stand up and find legal issue with them or pay the taxes, sell everything and live off the grid where they can't go after him for his taxes.

I got dinged last year by Canada (who's tax service is no less friendly than the US's) and paid what I owed, well aware of the interest I'd have to incur for any late fees. I've been audited (scary but I made it through). Part of being a member of society and a community is paying into the communal pot every year for the services that are provided, many that aren't so obvious. We whine about taxes but we would and do whine when services get cut. Those things cost money and in a country the size of the US, it ain't a cheap process.

Do gov't make mistakes? Yes.

Can I address those with a gov't official? Yes.

Is it worth killing myself or others over? No.

The US, to me, feels like it's at an all-time high in the midst of a "I want, I want, I want" society. And if we don't get what we want, we whine, cry, rant and generally behave like spoiled toddlers. I don't see this getting easier nor do I see events like this, unfortunately, being the only incident. I think we'll see others for a while yet as the overall market still settles.

we have come to a pass here.

his wife put out a statement. she is quite fine and did not barely escape. His oldest child, put out a statement calling her dad a hero. good enough for me.

you are going to think as you wish. so am i. but if ever you have a run in with a govt. agency and would like to review this let me know.

meanwhile i have life issues to deal with.

be well

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwalker (Post 55743)

I suspect you won't return but for those curious:

Quote:

Suicide Pilot's Daughter 'Sorry' for Her Father

Joe Stack's Daughter Samantha Bell Agrees With Victim's Son: Vernon Hunter Was the Hero

By LEE FERRAN

Feb. 23, 2010 —

The daughter of the man who killed a government worker in a suicide plane attack last week said today she felt sorry for her father.
"His actions at the end were extremely horrific and I'm deeply sorry for my father," Samantha Bell said of Joe Stack, who perished in the crash into IRS offices in Austin, Texas.

Bell also recanted her earlier characterization of her father as a hero.
"His last actions, the suicide, the catastrophe that caused injuries and death, that was wrong," Bell told "Good Morning America" in a telephone interview that aired Monday. "But if nobody comes out and speaks up on behalf of injustice, then nothing will ever be accomplished. But I do not agree with his last action with what he did. But I do agree about the government."

When asked if she considered her father a "hero," Bell, 38, said, "Yes, because now maybe people will listen."

Bell later called "Good Morning America" to retract her statement and say unequivocally that her father was "not a hero" in an interview that aired today.

She said the only hero involved in the attack was its victim, Vietnam veteran Vernon Hunter.

"I don't want to hurt anybody," Bell said. "We are mourning for Vernon Hunter."

Before crashing a small airplane into Internal Revenue Services offices in Austin, Texas, last week, Stack posted a lengthy, rambling suicide note online that railed against the government, the IRS and taxes specifically as part of a "totalitarian regime."

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner toured the destruction of the Austin IRS building Monday.

"We just spent an hour with the men and women who work in that building, listening to them talk about their colleague who died, what an inspirational leader he was, we listened to the stories they told about evacuating this building in three minutes, all the lives they saved by working together," Geithner told reporters Monday.

Victim's Son: Stack is No Hero

Ken Hunter, son of Vernon Hunter, who was killed in the attack, refuted Bell's earlier statement on Monday, saying Stack's not the hero in this situation, but his father is.

"How can you call someone a hero who after he burns down his house, gets into his plane ... and drives it into the building to kill people?" Hunter told "Good Morning America." "My dad Vernon did two tours of duty in Vietnam. My dad's a hero."

Bell said Monday there were "zero signs" that her father harbored such strong anti-government sentiments.

"He may have been somewhat frustrated, but he was a very quiet man," she said. "The father I knew was a loving, caring, devoted man who cherished every moment with me and my three children, his grandchildren. ... This man who did this was not my father.
"He must've kept this bottled up all these years."

Vernon Hunter was also a grandfather and to Vernon's son, Stack's actions will not change anything.

"The only difference he made was he took away from my family and murdered a 20-year U.S. Army vet," Ken Hunter said.

To Hunter's family, Bell offered her "deepest condolences."

"I lost my father, but I feel guilty to be mourning my father because I know other people have been affected and a wonderful man has died because of my father's actions. And I need to pay my respects and mourn for the man and his family," she said.

Joe Stack's Daughter: Torched Home Was 'Part of Government'

Before attacking the IRS offices, Stack burned down his wife's home. While many debated Stack's motives for the arson, Bell said it was likely all part of his anti-government rampage.

"As we pay taxes, we pay taxes on our home as well, and my belief is that the house was part of the government," she said. "He wanted to get rid of what was left."

Bell, who lives in Norway and criticized the American system as "very faulty," said that she hopes "everything" will change in light of her father's attack.

"But Rome was not built in one day. But one small step at a time. One step at a time," she said.

Since, she repeatedly said that her father should have chosen a non-violent means of protest.

"If he had actually just stood up to the government, [using] freedom of speech and did all he could besides doing what he did -- flying his airplane into a building and burning his house -- I think that would've been more effective," she said. "He stood up to the system. But at the same time, he loved his family. We are at a great loss."

Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures

Bolding in the article mine.

I picked this article because it seems to be the only one calling this
deranged egomaniac a murderer.

The real victim in this thing called reality is Vernon Hunter.

I am unsure if the amount he owed here is correct ( I'm sure more will be revealed)
$4000 - $6000 owed to the IRS is what the victims son is saying here.
small change to most plane owners ( I imagine)

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02...xas-irs-crash/

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwalker (Post 55708)

He attacked the gov't by aiming his plane at a building full of people????????? How is that attacking the govt. Really bad aim?
He attacked innocent people. Period.

This guy graduated from high school near where I live. People around here who knew him say he was extremely intelligent.
So don't be telling me that he didn't know EXACTLY what he was doing and who he would be killing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus (Post 55724)

I

The US, to me, feels like it's at an all-time high in the midst of a "I want, I want, I want" society. And if we don't get what we want, we whine, cry, rant and generally behave like spoiled toddlers. I don't see this getting easier nor do I see events like this, unfortunately, being the only incident. I think we'll see others for a while yet as the overall market still settles.

The "I deserve" mentality.

Rufus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linus (Post 55724)

The US, to me, feels like it's at an all-time high in the midst of a "I want, I want, I want" society. And if we don't get what we want, we whine, cry, rant and generally behave like spoiled toddlers. I don't see this getting easier nor do I see events like this, unfortunately, being the only incident. I think we'll see others for a while yet as the overall market still settles.

It is Linus. We learned to behave badly under the Reagan Administration and have not unlearned those bad behaviors. The 80's were the me-me-me generation and we haven't grown a bit since then. We're a country of spoiled petulant children. We don't care about a thing beyond ourselves. We're mean spirited, warring and selfish. It's embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo (Post 56106)

I would say (instead of 'we') that 'some of us' are spoiled petulant children. Otherwise I agree with what you say.