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I find your comment about the fragility of members here to be deflective and dismissive of the fact that some people enjoy serious discussions and don't feel the need to just couch everything in humor. One of the great things about this community is that there is room here for everyone, in whatever way they like to participate, as long as it's done in a respectful manner. Poking at folks, throwing the blame back at them and then threatening to flounce out, doesn't really come across as respectful. |
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Booooo!!!! How about those Nats.....:blink: Ok maybe not.:jester: |
Does it always end up being about the butches?
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i had made some heartfelt angst-ridden comment before the lightness ensued and did do a double take. But that happens all the time. And some of the participants i noted were (to me) trusted members. So i just let it go. i don't feel that reacting to that makes me someone with heightened sensitivities. i didn't respond (though i did react) because i do not think we can manage people's participation to the degree that at least i would sometimes want.
On a music site i have been part of for many years, this sort of thing is constant. And then when you call people on it -- usually young bio men -- the ensuing uproar makes it so not worth it. Talk about sensitive. God the number of times i have been called politically correct over there. i guess it's partly the thread title, etc. i don't know. One comment i have about the BV thing -- and this is entirely frivolous on my part -- is how glad i am that i am not involved. i think it may be productive discord, but it's just not worth it to me. i am glad there are young people and more political people who are willing to surrender some of their peace of mind to fight these battles. i am not right now. |
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then, i worry and worry about it and half the time find myself rushing back to the computer hoping it hasn't been 30 minutes yet and i can still edit even taking these precautions, i've landed in hot water a few times and there is at least one of those incidents i STILL don't understand i am not sure what it is. even going into a board meeting with all five of my bosses i wouldn't get as anxious as i do posting in "serious" threads |
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I've been quite baffled. To me discussing what's going on with BV in here was quite natural, since it is a topic of interest to butch women, lesbians and our partners, friends and allies. I personally think of the Lesbian Zone that way- open to whatever lesbians and our friends are interested in talking about. I didn't care for being told it shouldn't be discussed here.
However the fluffiness and leaping certainly seems appropriate to me too and actually more in keeping with the original intent of the thread. To those who don't want a serious discussion interrupted, I would think it would be more appropriate to voice those concerns in a thread dedicated to that specific serious discussion than here. That's just my opinion of course. For threads not specifically devoted to one defined topic I don't see why multiple conversations can't be going on at the same time. |
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Melissa |
As someone who was involved in the serious BV discussion in this thread,(and I don't think that was just about butches), I had NO issue with the light posts that were interjected. They didn't bother me one bit. Seems like a lot of energy has now been spent back-and-forth making assumptions about people's intent and scolding them.
But eh, happens all the time. I can remember occasions when I did feel that someone's thread flirting was intruding on the conversation when I did feel fragile in threads, when I did police discussions, when I did storm off in a huff, when I did feel unfairly chastised or moderated, and when I most certainly did decide never to post on the boards again. lol. |
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June--I don't think I should be allowed to say anything I want and I never even began to throw a "tantrum" about that. I said "Hey, how about them red sox?" and delivered it in a way that fit in perfectly with the flow of the thread. I wonder if the one person who took offense at that had been following the thread. It didn't seem that she got the context at all. And then here's just something I ask you to consider: Was my saying that about the red sox really as offensive as you telling me I'm "tantrumy"? My remark was not to any one person, and was not an insult couched in terms of "to me." I think that what's going on here is subtle in a lot of ways and I plan to reread and think about it, to see if there's something I think I should have done differently. Presently, I'm not feeling at fault. |
No, not really. I see no distinction between 'tantrumy' and 'take your toys and go home.' And i think it's a side issue anyway. I would be more concerned about people feeling like they can't post without someone jumping down their throats. Regardless, I am planning to stick around and get more of a feel for things. I don't like to judge based on just a few experiences. I also believe that people can learn. Thank you for your responses.
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I did pick up on that. Which is amazing since usually I'd be saying, "Red Sox, that's baseball, right? The round white ball with the pretty red stitching?"
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Baseball? Is that like rounders? :|
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You have to remember that it's not the teeny white ball that people hit with the skinny stick. It's the bigger white ball that people hit with the larger stick.
Wait, what's the thread topic? |
I am taking offense to the BEST baseball team in the history of baseball being used and abused in said June joke.
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I am a die-hard Red Sox fan. I am used to be used and abused and made haha at. It's part of our charm, history, and culture. At least she wants us to get a butt load of touchdowns :twitch: |
In reference to BV, I am cross-posting this blog link in a couple of threads.
http://butchenough.wordpress.com/201...pe-not-a-line/ Carry on. |
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The wee white ball hitting with the little stick...That would be golf....Lesbians play golf, and I definitely leap when I make a birdie:) |
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it's all about perception i suppose. |
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Damn. I don't swim.
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Waterwings rock.
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P.S...POLO!!! |
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I always wanted to name a cat Marco and then go around the neighborhood yelling, "Marco!" |
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These quotes lifted from BUTCH ENOUGH are kinda priceless: "Clearly many female-identified butches at BV feel like there are issues around sexism/misogyny (among other points) that aren’t being addressed. And it is just as clear, based on the recent ouster, who holds the power in the organization." "Any time you use a [linear] structure like ["masculine of center"], there is an implicit (or sometimes explicit) rating or ranking, that leaves some gender expressions as “more” and some as “less”. Thus, differences in expression of masculinity are quantitative rather than qualitative. That is, it becomes about different amounts of masculinity, rather than different kinds. "[T]he official statement written by Butch Voices Board President Krys Freeman....explicitly casts female-identified butches as outsiders that BV is “working” to include. Apart from the absurdity of a large group of butches, probably a majority of butches, being outsiders in an organization called Butch Voices, recent events would suggest that these efforts to “include” female-identified butches are not very effective. Of course, mere inclusion shouldn’t really be the goal anyway. For Butch Voices to be the organization it claims to be, true power-sharing would have to happen. Female-identified butches would have to have equal footing in the organizational power structure, rather than be outsiders the organization is trying to include – on its own terms." "If the BV board finds “butch” to be such a stigmatized term that they want to cover it over with “masculine of center” (a profoundly imperfect term in its own right), fine. But they should start with the name of the organization itself and leave the word “butch” to those of us who wear it with honor and with pride. Anything else is shameless hypocrisy." Here's what I wish.... I wish people would stop acting like the stuff going on at BV is unusual. |
cross posted
I will cross post this to a couple other threads.
Lesbian Connection, aka LC, is a magazine I have superscribed to for years. It arrives quarterly in my mailbox in an indiscreet manila envelope! It is a quick read with only 50 pages. They are reprinting the series "Dykes to Watch out For" The subscription fee is sliding scale free to anyone world wide and $42 for those that can afford it. Donations and gift subscriptions are appreciated! I am not on the staff, I am just worried that without support, this little rag will vanish as has the woman's bookstores that use to be. Elsie Publishing EPI PO Box 811 East Lansing, Mi 48826 (517)371-5257 (M-F) noon- 6pm ET elsiepub@aol.com www.LConline.org |
I am a Lesbian, in love with and married to a transgendered person...I am no less a Lesbian because of that fact.
Here I go, watch me proudly leap! |
BB and I love LC! Both of us have read it for years and years. It is very special!
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Sue Fink—Leaping Lesbians
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I love me my Sue.. and I love me my Meg... but Sue LINK 1973? That woulda been Meg... No?
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I went and looked.........Sue Fink and Joelyn Grippo wrote the lyrics and music..........Meg recorded it and it's on the Lesbian Concentrate album....one of the must have records of lesbian herstory.
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