Jesus Christ.

How are you being treated like shit? I don't get how each time this particular topic comes up you come off as the wounded one I really don't. Yet you can say hurtful things.

I find that to be odd and well unbalanced.

The reality is, in my experience with Olivia and dealing with their customer service, they DO NOT want trans folks there. Awesome!! It's their business but my politics will not allow and where I stand with queer issues will also not allow this kind of discrimination.

That's me.

The end. How you can't see that it's shitty of gay folk to do to eachother I don't know.

I won't be back for a bit so I am not ignoring you if I don't post but pineapple poi got my attention.

I really don't understand how a conversation about Olivia's policy of excluding transpeople has turned into yet another thread about Bulldog.

Me either.

And here we go again.

WHERE have you been treated like shit BullDog?

See, this is how it goes. You say something. Someone doesn't agree with you. And all of a sudden, we're all guilty of lesbophobia/femaleID'd phobia/BullDogphobia/whatever.

Ugh.

Words

So 3 different members of this site had two very different experiences on an Olivia Cruise...Blaze and Isadora/citybutch.

Looking around on Olivia's website I see plenty o masculine looking lesbians.

The dash site is having a Cruise on Olivia. The confrontation over that on that website has been moved over here. The management and the customer service folks from Olivia have made conflicting statements (out of both sides of their mouth) about who is and is not welcome on an Olivia Cruise. Not that I give two shits, however I do agree with Bully that holding a b/f/t website gathering on a lesbian cruise just plain makes no sense at all. However it certainly is within their right to do so.

What troubles me is we have allowed that animosity to pit us against each other HERE. I doubt very seriously Jack and Dusa would hold a gathering for us on a lesbian cruise.

I support Olivia's right to determine who gets on the Cruises, just like I support Mich Fest's right to determine who comes to their women's music festival. That does not mean I would be in attendance, it just means I believe they have right to do so.

It doesn't mean I would not suggest that Olivia might want to re-think their business model and perhaps hold a trans-queer-lesbian cruise once in a while. Maybe they could create more new business for themselves...the number of folks with a grand or two to use for a vacation is dwindling.

I do think it's shitty and I said so several times.

It troubles me as well Toughy.

We wouldn't :) - But I am considering selling an organ or something so we can buy our own Big Gay Boat, paint it lime green and pink, and sail all over the world having Cabarets every night.

Holy shit! I just read this whole thread and wondering if the OP expected all the lack of direct experience opinions.
Interestingly, I think less than 1% of posts actually related to an experience on an Olivia cruise...not to say that learning about a business' ethical practices is not fruitful for the mind but serious overkill on the "I won't go cause so and so" or "you'd be stopped on the dock cause such and such". The facts are often so simple for a reason...yet emotions interpret them :blink:

You know, at first I was going to just let this statement slide, but then it started to bother me a tad.
You asked this question Kobi, so I feel obligated to answer it.
I dont understand how one would not pursue getting their money back if they were stranded at the dock for the reasons they indicated. I suspect a simple complaint to the better business bureau and the local newspapers consumer affairs people would have resulted in a quick refund. Not pursuing this makes me wonder what actually happened at the dock.
You have to remember there was 22 of us. And as I had stated in an earlier post;And then tell us that we could reschedule another time??? We were on vacation, we have paid vacation hours, we can't just show up back to work and say, well can't go right now, so I'm going to work now and can you let me have next month off?!!!
We all worked, and we planned this vacation. Some. For example "Me" worked 2 full time jobs and had to get okayed to get my vacation.
Now... We asked for our money back, their response was, we can RESCHEDULE ALL OF YOU on another cruise. Well we paid to go on this one, we couldn't reschedule. We all did call the better business so that makes 44 complaints. They acknowledge our complaints. And put it down on there paper. We could have gotten lawyers or whatever else roads we may have wanted to take, but then again, we all worked. So if it's our loss, then yes, it was. My concern was not about the money anymore. It was about how we were treated. Was there any Drama involved? NO, we are respectful people, we questioned, we got their answers, and that. Is that. No secrets, no extra hate, we had enough of that. So before presuming otherwise. Ask it from the person who stated this, not hint and post. So basically you don't have to wonder now.
This was just my feelings, and what happened on "Our" experience. Not a debate about what we did wrong or right.
Thanks, Blaze

Sounds like fun to me!

OMG! Usually they avoid the waves days ahead of time! YIKES!

If you harm my brothers and sisters, I can not in good conscience condone that.

LOL , you are something else :) But I quess you are the authority of Lesbians cause you have been one for 30 years ..Next time I have a guestion about Lesbians I sure will come find you ......:| Until then I would not book a cruise on Olivia Cruises anytime soon ..:) Just sayin

Blaze,
Thank you for the clarification. One can see how upsetting this would be even so many years after the incident occured.

For clarification, Olivia is not a member of the BBB. When businesses are not members, complaints are not easily resolved using this avenue.

For future reference for anyone who might find themselves with travel cancellations for any number of reasons - complaints to the attorney general in the state where the offending party is licensed is always an option. It is also an option, if you charge the trip to a credit card, to challenge the charges. Travel insurance is always a good idea and Olivia does provide this.

Also helps to check the fine print too i.e. I wonder if Olivia might have a disclaimer somewhere which allows them to refuse entry for any number of reasons. Checking cancellation policies is a good idea as well. Some places will not refund or offer you an alternative date.

It was nice to see people with direct experience on the cruises share their experiences with us.

I'm still keeping my feel on land tho.

Well I am a big fat Lesbian and I wouldn't book either.
To *me* the act of turning away a butch woman or an MTF (which means she is a woman) is not the act of a loving community.

Community means all of us (to me).

Olivia Cruiselines must not put a lot of faith in Lesbians if they are going to speak for the faceless masses and deem them as "upset" by....what? I don't even know. I also feel like any ftm folk wanting to go on this kind of cruise is not living steath as a male full time, but rather still very connected to the community that was their home for so many years,.

I have a super hard time separating Lesbian from Queer. Trans from Queer. Gay from Queer. To me it's all of us for each other. Not all of us against each other.

I cannot begin to examine what Blaze must have felt as a Lesbian on the dock that day, being refused entry. I close my eyes and try to visualize myself there, and the end result is only tears. That act of exclusion of a Lesbian is unconscionable.

What happened to Blaze was 8 years ago. 8 years. We don't have the whole story and never will get it. That is not said with any judgment at all towards Blaze....it's just a fact. Kobi has made good points concerning this.

Bully, from what I can tell, agrees with what we are saying. Some of you just don't like the way she says. Crap sometimes she irritates me, but I am not gonna mis-read her and jump to conclusions she never made.

How about we stop attacking each other.........specifically stop jumping on Bully. I said some of the same things Bully has said and I got lots names under my posts. Nobody up my ass, making fun of me like Billy's last post. Jesus.............this is getting embarrassing.

Olivia is NOT a community. It's a business that provides travel services.....cruises.....targeted toward lesbians with disposable income. Good grief. Lets stop confusing business and community. I promise they understand the demographics of their target consumers. Sometimes lesbians just want to be with lesbians.