Butch Femme Planet - The Debates

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The Giants and the President kicking butt in one night? Woo hoo!

Is anyone watching George Will on ABC? He said the candidates were talking about things that voters don't care about and both men were"nellies". What?

ETA Dianne Sawyer just said that she wanted to be sure people had George Will's email so they can respond directly to him with comments!

George Will is a reactionary old fart. Did he really say nellies??

Nytimes fact check on the auto bailout

Quote:

7:28 pm

Jeremy W. Peters
Fact-Check: 'Let Detroit Go Bankrupt'?

Mr. Obama just stated that when Mr. Romney argued in late 2008 that Detroit auto companies should be denied a government bailout and instead turn to the private marketplace, no private financing was available. This is consistent with what auto executives have said.

At the time Mr. Romney wrote his now infamous New York Times op-ed the financial markets had ground to a halt. It was November 2008, and there was little available liquidity for anyone seeking financing. There were certainly no financial institutions — not even Bain Capital, Mr. Romney’s private equity firm — looking to invest to the tune of the $80 billion the car companies needed at the time.

No private companies would come to the industry’s aid, and the only path through bankruptcy would have been Chapter 7 liquidation, not the more orderly Chapter 11 reorganization that the company ultimately followed, people inside and outside the car companies have said.

In fact, the task force asked Bain if it was interested in investing in General Motors’ European operations, according to one person with direct knowledge of the discussions.

Bain declined, this person said, speaking anonymously to discuss private negotiations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina (Post 682073)

George Will is a reactionary old fart. Did he really say nellies??

Nytimes fact check on the auto bailout

Yes! Can you believe that? How offensive!

How does Mark Halperin of Time give both of them a B+? It wasn't even close.

CNN's first poll gave Obama an eight point victory, and they acknowledged that there were more Republicans among those polled than Democrats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina (Post 682047)

He loves teachers like he loves Big Bird.

Romney did somehow get a comment in about education when the question was about foreign policy. He said something about putting the kids first and putting Teachers Unions behind us.

I am not impressed when either candidate is asked a question and their response throws everything in it except what the question was about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by julieisafemme (Post 682068)

The Giants and the President kicking butt in one night? Woo hoo!

And the Bears :)

I wasnt going to watch tonights debate .. BUT i did lol .. soo figures ,, my fav part is when the poll #'s came out ... OBAMA 63% little itty bitty romney 37% ..... just saying ~~~~

The New York Times

October 22, 2012
Heated in Florida
By FRANK BRUNI

Quote:

So that’s it? The last of the presidential debates? No, no, no. I’m already in mourning, can’t quiet my hankering for more and am not being remotely sarcastic. In a political culture as stage-managed, focus-grouped and airbrushed as ours, these debates gave us rare moments of rawness, not to mention Big Bird.

Monday night’s face-off in Boca Raton was no exception. Any worry that the designated focus on foreign policy would tilt this encounter in a cerebral rather than visceral direction was dispelled almost instantly. Within minutes the candidates were sharply talking over each other, and President Obama, banishing his debacle in Denver once and for all, issued a denunciation of Mitt Romney more sweeping than any from the previous two presidential debates.

Turning to his rival, he said, “You seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policies of the 1950s and the economic policies of the 1920s.”

Romney smiled a brittle smile: “Attacking me is not an agenda.” It was as good an answer as any, but he had an odd color and odder sheen, that of a man without Dramamine on a rickety boat in threatening seas.

Obama repeatedly reminded television viewers that he alone was familiar with the responsibilities of the commander in chief. He clearly wanted Romney’s experience as a mere governor to sound, in comparison, like a job running a curbside lemonade stand.

And though Romney perspired and occasionally stammered, he wouldn’t surrender. He insisted that Al Qaeda wasn’t really “on the run.” He claimed — yet again — that Obama had begun his presidency with “an apology tour,” and faulted him for skipping Israel. It was a barb tailor-made for Florida’s many Jewish voters.

Foreign policy is not at the top of voters’ concerns, so both candidates demonstrated a comic eagerness to build an oratorical bridge from Tripoli to Toledo, Ohio, the debate becoming a contest of how frequently each candidate could beat a path from northern Africa and the Middle East back home.

Thus they sparred over education, food stamps, Obama’s unbalanced budgets, Romney’s unspecific tax plan and even Solyndra. We weren’t in Libya anymore.

In aggregate these presidential debates gave us sublime drama, the first one scrambling the race’s momentum, the second one flavored with enough disdain to fill a “Real Housewives” season, and Monday night’s reprising that ill will without quite replicating it. Romney wasn’t as truculent as he’d been, ceding the part of bully to Obama, who took it on too arrogantly at times.

His mantra of “not true,” “not true” from the prior debate was replaced by “all over the map,” “all over the map,” a dismissal of Romney’s positions as undependable.

These debates did in fact give us truth. I don’t mean that the candidates themselves spoke honestly. Hardly. In fact we should pause to note how sad it is that we’ve come to regard a post-debate fact-check — a report card on who told the most and biggest whoppers — as an inevitable and unremarkable part of the process. In campaigns these days, dishonesty is both an art form and a given.

But the debates revealed each candidate for who he really is: the good, the bad and the binders. Although the two men armed themselves with practiced soliloquies and prefabricated expressions, there was something about the physical proximity of an opponent that scrubbed off even the thickest varnish.

We saw Obama’s aloofness and distaste for the more superficial aspects of politics. But we also saw his impressive resilience.

The debates enabled Romney, at long last, to show Americans his persuasiveness. But he also exhibited his prickliness — “Candy! Candy!” — when he doesn’t get his way.

I not only reveled in all of this but also returned to it, fishing out transcripts and rereading bits, like Obama’s let’s-measure-our-pensions put-down. On YouTube I revisited the laugh factory that was Joe Biden, who went through all the existing facial expressions for disbelief and derision and then went on to invent another dozen.

And in my head I replayed my favorite post-debate analyses: Al Gore’s wondering if the altitude in Denver had incapacitated Obama; one Republican strategist’s description of that Obama performance and Biden’s subsequent mania as a “sleepy cop/crystal meth cop” routine. The debates were the mothers of some highly inventive wordplay.

They were also a study in moderation, by which I refer to the disparate styles of Jim & Martha & Candy & Bob. I’m considering a come-as-your-favorite-moderator Halloween party, and while I thought Bob Schieffer did well Monday night, I’m leaning toward a Candy costume myself, in tribute to her moxie. Debate overlords intended to muffle the moderator’s role in the town-hall format, and asked her to impersonate a potted plant.

So she did: a Venus flytrap. That’s horticulture you can believe in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson (Post 682139)

Yes like when Romney was asked how he feels about illegal weapons he smiled
And responded that a couple should be married before having a baby :|

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMW (Post 682024)

SNIPPET

Excuse me...Romney....govt saved your ass and your company...OOP...Romnesia again

Romnesia?

:cracked:

oh that's good. that's really really good!

This election is a 'no-brainer' surely?

I know that the U.S media like to create a whole hoopla about how close the 'race' is but that's just to make it appear as though there might actually be a real choice between the candidates.

I have faith in the American public, unlike many in the world, that y'all will make sure that the 'safest' dude will be voted in. Vote the Romney dude in and the world will mock and, hopefully, ostracize ya...ya know that right?

I see the Romney dude and think of the misery of the Dubya years. More bogus wars over 'terrorism' that are really so you lot can have cheaper petrol (gas) than the rest of the world and a lot more people struggling to make ends meet.

Just a simple furriner's p.o.v. :goodluck:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomad (Post 682263)

Romnesia?

:cracked:

oh that's good. that's really really good!

The Morning After....

A slight hangover, but I recall your honor , that the best one won. One appeared as Commander in Chief

and one appeared like plaster, brittle and cracked, .

This election is a 'no-brainer' surely? -- Daktari

this election is unlike any other. first time a black man (not entirely. he is white too.) will go for re election. there might be a few more elements in the voting. i certainly don't think he has done all he promised (i would think no one does.), but overall i do believe that he has tried. i'm voting for obama. i will think the election to be close until after the count.

one element to think about is the people that voted for "change". will they come back. you have to believe a lot of those votes were jumping on the winning team. and george bush. obama is standing on his own. that's a good thing. we will see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson (Post 682139)

I found this in my morning reading in Slate. I see others are noticing such obvious non-answers too.

"Below you'll find a segment-by-segment breakdown of how both Obama and Romney found ways to sprinkle their favorite domestic talking points into their foreign policy answers. As you'll see, both proved more than cable of staying on topic when they wanted (see: Israel), but didn't hesitate to return to their tried-and-true domestic-heavy stump speeches when they thought it would help them."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...cy_debate.html

did anyone else catch the 3rd party debate?

i was a little disappointed with the questions - the first one seemed set up to stroke the ego of the debate organizers and the rest were lobbed softballs for the occupy crowd they seemed to be targeting

i admit i went in with a favoring for rocky anderson but i'm in line with gary johnson's position on last nights debate topics - i wish i could make a frankenstein monster of the 2 of them

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonaderspeisung (Post 683281)

I watched.

The 3rd party candidates were so respectful of the debate process and of each other. Larry King kept messing up the agenda and the order and they were very gracious.
I like Johnson, Anderson, and Stein. Although I did enjoy listening to Virgil Goode's accent, his issue positions made me twitchy.

I agree that some of the questions were lame. I wish the 3rd party candidates were allowed to debate with the Democrats and Republicans. It makes the debates so much more interesting and also highlights how similar the two main candidates actually are.

any news on who won the "debates" as a whole?

Riding through neighborhoods tonight in Central FL I couldn't help but notice the presidential signs in the yards. For every 1 Obama I counted 7 for Romney. Both of these candidates have been all over FL for support. FL Is gonna be a tough state for the President. It will be interesting to watch the numbers come in on Voting Day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruffryder (Post 683295)

Ruffryder, it depends on which poll you are looking at to determine who won the debates as a whole. (I am going to assume you are asking "Who won the debates taking all three Presidential debates into consideration?"

Each poll is targeting different groups. Some are targeted at the undecided voter, another poll is asking "those most likely to vote." Some polls are targeting the "swing states," for example Ohio. Then you should consider who, what network, newservice is conducting the poll? Is it CNN, FOX, MSNBC? They all have their political slant.

I am not an expert. Based on reading the results of the polls, watching the debates and listening and reading the analyst, "talking heads" after the debates, I would say Romney won the first debate, President Obama won the second debate and the third debate was pretty much a toss up. I think the President did a better job in the final debate but my bias is Democrat.

In the polls right now they are running very close. The polls I have seen have only a .5 - 1 point difference. As for all the Romney sings in Florida. That should not be a big surprise. Florida is a Red state. Meaning more registered Republicans then Democrats and they vote. Also, if they are independents, they tend to vote more conservative, States Rights, Libertarian. Which when left choosing between Republican or Dem, the Republican gets the vote. Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semantics (Post 683292)

re: goode - i felt like closed captioning would have helped - his accent is very strong - saying he made me twitchy would be an understatement
but i liked his "term limits would cut through congress like a knife through hot buttah"

I heard excerpts on NPR. Free higher education. Damn, we need that but there is no will to make that a reality. That would address income inequality.

Goode was funny re drugs. He said something like "If you want to legalize drugs, vote for one of these other fellers. Do not for me." The way he said it made me laugh.

NPR was also talking about how little the housing crisis has been discussed during the election. I can see why the candidates have not wanted to discuss it, but why has the press and the public let them get away with that. Elephant in the living room issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina (Post 683372)

Because our media has forgotten the whole reason we grant them the huge amount of latitude we do. They seem to think that their function is to enjoy 'access' to political and economic elites as well as turn a profit and if, in the course of doing so, they happen to report the news and be the keepers of the Eleventh Commandment (thou shalt not get away with it) no one is going to complain, as such but that is a secondary function to actually reporting the news.

Since our current media has an attention span so brief that it makes a kitten look like a Zen master they simply cannot do reportage on issues like the housing crisis (complex, multi-causal and implicates economic elites) or climate change (complex, multi-causal, implicates economic elites and requires a bit of science to explain) or pretty much anything *other* than 'he said, she said' gossip and, of course, the horse race of the numbers.

Cheers
Aj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyson (Post 683330)

The big one to watch is Ohio. If Romney doesn't carry Ohio, he doesn't get to be president. It's not that it is mathematically impossible for him to win without Ohio but there's no smooth path for him if he doesn't. He'd have to basically run the table in every other swing state and that isn't happening.

Cheers
Aj

I say a gay or trans person run. It is clear when a person like Mitt Romney can run that we need a change. (lol)