School costs and parent involvement
Ok, so I was about to hit submit to a post in the "what is on your mind" thread, but realized that maybe it would get lost in the shuffle and the parenting subforum may be a more suitable place.
Please expand on this topic in any way you might like. Maybe people want to talk about school costs in general or parent involvement in general. But this is what was specifically "on my mind"... So copy/pasting: One thing I have noticed from talking to parents is that it seems like there are higher and higher expectations in school on the "projects" kids have to do. Like crazy high...out of their age range, so the parents have to do it. Also, a lot of these projects seem to cost a lot of money for the supplies. So, "what is on my mind is": 1) My client was telling me about this intense project that her 3rd grader had to do...seemed more fitting for a 7th grader to do. There is NO WAY that she could have done this project without a parent. What do the kids do who don't have parents that want to help them? Just fail? 2) Some of the projects now a days seem to include a lot of supplies that cost money. What do kids do if they have parents who can't afford these supplies? What about the kids whose parents have the money, but aren't willing to go to the craft store to get said supplies b/c they are just parents who don't care? I went to public school. As I recall, the teachers always had available any supplies that were needed for projects if your parents couldn't buy it for you. And it wasn't expensive stuff. At all. A couple of bucks and one or two projects a year. And the projects were things that weren't outside of a kids ability level and they could do the projects on their own. Things seem to have changed. What are these unlucky kids doing if they have a parent who won't help with a project or won't or can't purchase supplies? Are teachers "in tune" to these kids and their needs do ya think? |
I realize I may be extending out from the orginal topic with my point I am going to bring forth... In relation to what you made mention to, one thing that boggles my mind about my college is about 95% of the classes at my school are on a computer. Even class taught subjects such as Math or English requires assignments to be turned in online. Just as parents of school students can't always afford supplies, not everyone has the ability to own a computer and have the convience of the internet. I realize there are ways around it by using school computers and so forth, but I think there should be an option of online or traditional classroom classes
|
My sister is a 3rd grade school teacher and has said many times how she's gone out and bought supplies for the kids who's parents can't afford it or just don't care. As for the projects, its age appropriate...i think it depends on the teacher
|
Not sure my thoughts on this I might have to come back and change my mind. I know that scholastically kids these days on average are smarter than I was at their same age, I was an average student. I've seen things my niece has had for projects and I go OMG wonder how her friend so and so is doing this project with no computer no adult or older sibling to help. I agree Dapper when I was in school it seemed everything you would need was at school for the most part except maybe for a book report or science project or something like that. I remember writing good papers and making good grades on papers in high school but I also remember you got extra credit if it was typed. WHAT? I didn't have a typewriter at home.
So I really don't know how under privileged kids get by any more in school with their projects, especially like you mentioned if they need to use the computer and don't have one at home. I know we have some teachers here on the site maybe they have some idea's. Someone mentioned college. College is expensive enough with tuition, books, housing etc. I know that many colleges now require incoming students to have a certain so and so this and that kind of computer with this and such programs and speed and blah blah blah. |
Quote:
|
Canadian (and some other countries) education systems are vastly different--equal funding for all students regardless of location or neighbourhood or whatever.
No teacher here (my Canadian city) would dream of creating an assignment that is not accessible to all students--regardless of socio-economic status. We would be called to the table if we assigned such a thing. However, like I said, we have equal funding for all students--regardless of where families reside--they have quality education. ETA: So, no, there would be no assignments that some kids could *afford* and others could not. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
sometimes i fantasize about moving there... too bad i don't have family there anymore.
|
Quote:
Much of the time, it isn't the teacher being out of tune with this- it is what has been legislated in the US with things like "No Child Left Behind" which has been extended by the Obama administration. All has become based upon schools competing for federal funding and the districts that traditionally have had a higher tax base usually wins out. So, the developmental, financial and social aspects of students are just lost. In some schools, teachers get a financial bonus for higher test scores on national achievement tests. Regular classroom teachers have been pushed in many ways to leave child development behind or lose their jobs. The politicalization of education in the US has rendered it out of touch with the real variables that enable students to learn. And makes teachers robots. The whole damn system is out of touch with kids and their families. The other thing that bothers me is that there is just not enough available in apprentice and trades programs for students. Vocational education is pushed back while college is pushed ahead as the only way someone can earn a living. Yet, how can a house be built without carpenters, plumbers, electricians? What about scientific glass technicians- they produce the test tubes and beakers used in experiments?! Who builds roads? The list goes on. I am very thankful for having the opportunity to go to college and grad school. However, The US educational system needs to widen its vision and provide educational opportunities for all of its students including those that want to develop skills in non-college bound types of employment. And stop this crazy testing!! |
This stuff was going on long before NCLB. It wasn't that way when i was in school, but i remember friends who had their kids in Ann Arbor schools who were supposed to pony up for things all the time. i recall a minor example -- students were supposed to buy green t-shirts for a field trip so that the kids could be kept track of. My co-worker was poor and had no time to go out shopping on the spur of the moment etc.
i don't teach elementary, but we sure don't assume that there is support at home for projects. i am not sure how this got started. A friend of mine whose kids are in Ann Arbor schools is constantly working on projects. She has the money and the time, but is it even good for her sons? Another friend, her son calls from COLLEGE for help, sometimes on deadline. The kid is a junior. It's mind-boggling to me. Another friend is a dean of a small college, and she says for some years colleges -- and professors -- have had many more parents calling to intervene when their kids are failing a class etc. Amazing. So i think parents are a part of the problem. i think they are afraid to allow their kids to fail or flounder. And it keeps upping the ante. i also think this doesn't have anything to do with high stakes testing. If we were concentrating only on high stakes testing, there wouldn't be any projects at all. Project-based learning is great. It needs good curriculum, cooperation among staff and administration, and hard work on everyone's part. It should not require much parental involvement. Parental pareticipation should be be about helping kids review and, if necessary, stay organized. The point of homework is building toward mastery. Sitting down with their kids, checking homework, helping kids with their planners, checking planners, staying up on what's happening in the classroom, and perhaps volunteering -- that's what parents should be doing. But they should not be going back to school themselves. ***begin rant*** i may sound a bit irritable here. But all the armchair folks who talk about what's wrong with the system, 90 percent of them don't have a clue. They read about it or listen to pundits on the radio, but they are not professionals. i understand that all of us are stakeholders. The students are our kids and future leaders. We all should care. It's fine to read and research and have opinions. But i hear all the time, well i subbed fifteen years ago, and . . . Or my daughter teaches in San Jose, and she says. . . . i just want to say, get back to me when you are a fully credentialed experienced teacher, counselor or admin, when you have had real responsibility for children's educations. It's not just the notion that teachers are the problem and that somehow "fixing" us would solve all the world's problems that i abhore. i think most of us here would object to that and object to the teacher-hating legislation that has been going on. But the idea that every retired old fart at the donut shop feels qualified to tell you what is wrong -- at length -- with public schools is part of the problem -- the problem that is not respecting teachers and the mission of public school education. Man, it makes me tired. ****end rant***** |
Quote:
We just finished a super fun project on birds. This was the culmination of a year of study for my daughter's third grade class. We had to make a nest for a Northern Pygmy Owl. My daughter came up with the concept and picked out the supplies at the store. I did help and so did Grandma because my daughter loves when we all do crafts together. It was so fun!! A hot glue gun was involved and so my Mom and I did that and burned ourselves! We made homemade clay eggs and got twigs by walking on the street and collecting them. My daughter came up with the construction of the tree we had to make and then told me how to assemble it. I don't know. I don't think this was necessarily too difficult for her age. I really appreciate the projects where I get to help. It lets me see what she is doing and learning and it is an opportunity for us to do something together. I dropped her off really early and actually came in to school and looked at the other nests kids had made and talked to her teacher and it was good. I think there is a happy medium between doing the project for your child and doing it together. I am grateful for the opportunity. I am also lucky and privileged to have the time to help her I know. |
Awwww. That's wonderful! It sounds like it was the best of both for her -- she learned a lot and got to do something with Mom and Grandma.
LOL re the gluegun. i wouldn't put one of those in the hands of a kid either, BUT in reality their young hands are often more dextrous than our own. Quote:
|
Having the time and energy for parents is difficult at times. Especially single parents. Put a lack of resources in the mix and it is tougher.
I am very happy that I was with a LT partner when I took over parenting for my son. She also joined in projects. Although, he was in HS at the time. That interaction is valuable. I do, however, feel that teachers, especially those that are not parents themselves, may not get how hectic life is with kids and all of the things outside of school that takes a parent's time and energy having to do with their kids. With taking on parenthood, my whole internal structure as a teacher at that time changed- I saw and felt for myself some of the challenges parents had tried to explain to me that I really did not "get." Parents don't get to take a vacation from being a parent or go home to a home without kids after work. I was lucky also that my son's Dad left a trust for his care and education. and as it turned out, things like therapy and extra help in academics as he has ADHD and perceptual neurologic problems that just could not be addressed in the shools available to him. There were no special education mandates at that time. Many parents do not have this kind of financial back-up at all. Many are trying to go on with their own higher education. I have a bit of a problem when parents get blamed by teachers- even though I taught at the HS level, then community college and state universities- part time along with a full time therapy practice and the responsibility of a teen and later young adult getting through college. Be responsible for a child and them getting a good start in life and there are many fears that go along with this which are part of package. |
Short and Sweet
It's ridiculous to me at the number of teachers that spend their own money for supplies as well as ridiculous the amount of money it takes for field trips nowadays. I mean where is the balance.
My kids have gone on field trips to places that I haven't even been to yet. We used to go to the relatively close "park" for a field trip and my son goes to Disney? I am as guilty as the next person about not wanting to say "no" and for wanting my kids to have the experience that I never had and finding a way to send them. |
Yesterday I was at wall mart and already they have school suplies out,I looked at the suply sheet for the school my son had gone to ..OMG the stuff they needed was off the chart,im really glad im done with buyig school suplys for anyone cause I would have to take out a bank loan to do it these days
|
I know your pain.
Together T(aka Cruel) and I have put 5 kids through school. We currently have one high schooler left - thank heavens.
|
Quote:
I am all for going on field trips...but so NOT down for spending mah hard earned $$ on crap trips to consumerville like disneyland. i want my kid to go to places i haven't, but i want the trips to have some substance too. i think it's important for our kids to get out of the box while they're still young. i plan on being on the school board next year to stir some ish up! ;) i dunno how that's gonna work yet (being a single parent, a student and a commuter) but i'll fig it out! :p |
Quote:
I think it is great for all kids to get out of the box, too- but I think school field trips should be to enhance what kids are learning in school. When we went to government related places, our teachers taught us about how bills are put through the state legislature before we went and then we talked about the processes we observed. |
Quote:
I have heard of teachers buying supplies out of their own pocket because budget cuts are preventing schools from buying materials. Perhaps this child's teacher is not willing to dip into his or her own pocket, or has spent too much and can't afford any more. My guess is that teacher's are very in tune to which kids can or cannot afford supplies and which kids have parents who are active in their learning and which kids have parents who can't or won't be involved in their learning. It could be that the project is mandated and the teacher has little control over it? M |
Quote:
M |
Quote:
Totally agree. Teachers are just struggling to hold on to their jobs any more and many are out of work and have advanced degrees, training and experience. Teachers aren't allowed to teach and use their experience and training. They are told what to teach, how to teach and what will happen if the test scores don't meet requirements. This isn't just happening in public schools it is happening in colleges too. College instructors are losing control of their classrooms, the curriculum, even their syllabi. I'll get started on the loss of tenure and reliance on a college workforce of underemployed and underpaid adjunct faculty who work from class contract to class contract with no health benefits soon :) But the two are linked. As you said, it is the politicizing of education and it extends from kindergarten through college. Melissa |
Quote:
Not saying it has to be that way...just that it would take a major restructuring of how schools are funded...and an awful lot of political will to do so. |
Quote:
|
I am a Science Teacher as well as the head of my Science Dept. I can see everyone's frustrations with the budget distribution. It is true that the state gives us guidelines as to what our children should be learning. Budgets are affecting how we teach. However, I am fortunate enough to work for a district and principal that believes that we should nurture certain areas in our students academic development. During the summer time, our district applies for as many grants as possible. This last year we were able to purchase 300 laptops for students to check out which include internet cards, symphony concert series tickets, projectors and smartboards for every classroom, IPODS, netbooks, etc. It is quite a bit of technology all made possible by these grants. Also, we received grants for workshops, trainings, and staff developments for our staff.
Recently I had a conversation with our principal about the arts. She has signed our school up for a mural project where kids can nurture their artistic expression. We are hoping that this will not only add a sense of pride in their community but will be an outlet for self expression which they truly struggle with. In my lessons, I include "Food for the Brain". This is my time to share different things with my student. Some are areas that interest them, others are things that I find interesting to share. Either way, it encourages students to take ownership of their education and that is when the real learning begins :) I do the best with what I have and differentiated instruction is one of the keys. I could go on and on..lol In regards to supplies, I always end up stocking up in the summer. I work in an at-risk area and budgets are tight for most families. I try not to add the pressure and supply my kids with what I can. Of course, I am only one person and can do so much but we find a way to make it work. I can honestly say that we try so hard to provide our kids with enriching experiences that they wouldn't have otherwise. This year I am taking my 5th graders to NASA :) Sorry, I get excited when it comes to teaching! I may have strayed from the topic at hand lol |
Quote:
In terms of teachers purchasing materials for projects, my point was that when they bought materials back in my day the projects were with pipe cleaners and popsicle sticks! My point was, this is not possible anymore (not that they should have ever felt they had to do it). Also, they were projects that were things that were easy to have on hand in the class room that a teacher could hand out to the one or two students on the side that didn't have parents who would purchase the materials for them, for whatever reason. |
Quote:
We want to go to Disneyland, but we need our educational stuff too. So let's see what is all on the way down and back that we can integrate as part of XYZ curriculum. |
Quote:
Wouldn't that be great if that is how it worked out, but the sad thing is so many kids are taught to take the fast, easy, etc way. Look at the number of kids nowadays that do not know how to use a dictionary, a phone book, balance a bank statement(keep track of ATM purchases), write a formal letter/resume/etc. And why if kids aren't learning these things don't the parents teach them. |
Quote:
I have been volunteering in the public schools, in two different states, on 5 different grade levels at a time, for 20 years now. I have had the extreme pleasure of meeting some of the best teachers. I totally believe many of our teachers have a good grasp on their class and what the individual students are capable of and some obstacles too. I've witness students take a failing grade because they didn't want to ask a parent(for various reasons) to take them to the library to use a computer. Students who really struggle with a math concept and there was nobody around to help them at home or the math was even beyond a level the parents could comprehend. Nowadays, our teachers are not just teachers. Teaching is a big enough task as it is, but they have taken on the roles as counselors or at least getting these kids "other needs" to the appropriate person that possibly can help them. |
Quote:
M |
Quote:
Affluent parents can afford to provide more for their students than low-income parents can. So, even if the pot is divided equally as x$ per student, there will still be inequality of resources. If anything, low income areas should receive more per student and affluent areas less. Honestly, I can't see it happening (as much as I'd like it to). Having lived in upstate NY I was already witness to the massive screaming and complaining about upstate dollars going to support "those people in the city" and the accompanying (unfounded) derogatory remarks. We now live in a much poorer area, and a significantly underfunded school district compared to where we were. Ironically, my son is getting a much better education, enjoys school more, and is getting better grades as well. Where we lived in NY, the libraries were funded as you suggest...with each library getting an equal share of the pot. However, the library in our small, affluent town was amazing....while the one I donated all of my books to in the city struggled. The library in the affluent part of town was able to do a great deal of private fund-raising in the community, and could pretty much get whatever they wanted while the other branch struggled to do a bake sale and book sale that raised a small amount. So...don't know the answer, but...how do we balance that? Do we take into account how much more parents can provide? How much private local fundraising or grant writing they could do? What if they could, but choose not to? It's complicated. |
Quote:
|
Where I live all supplies are paid for by the school, and I have a special budget for that. Also we tend to make all our projects on school time, to compensate for absent parents and so on. I think that is a good solution to the problem.
One thing I wanted to point out though, is that I, as a teacher, of course I can see when a kid has made a project without any help. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
We have 5(4 that lived full time) kids and in no time would $70 have taken us to a local aquarium, zoo, fair, or out to a decent dinner for that fact, but I get what you're saying. Did anyone see where I talked about kids not being able to use a dictionary, phone book, balance monies, etc? Yes, a said day. |
I must comment I have been ranting about this since my kid started school...Why do I need to buy the tennis balls for the chair and table legs? dont they have funding for that type of supply ...further more the older my kid gets the more it seems that they corner you into buying the "ice cream parties for good behavior or meeting some goal,my problem with it is this...first off w/o a heads up I get my kid coming home telling me what I need to purchase for w/e thing they are doing...and its needed the next day...so then I get an email from the teacher telling me if I could help as most of the parents cant...then to find out the next day that its not just her class but the whole pod I need to bring ice cream for....if your gonna reward kids for meeting a goal ...why am I the one doing it? and if I tell my kid I am not doing it this time I do it everytime let another parent do it...she comes home after not getting the said party and now its my fault as the teacher states sorry but no one brought stuff...grrrr
next subject,projects..I dont know about you guys but the parents here get graded for involvement I have to sign this and initial that after checking her work to show i do..and from what I have been hearing, from other parents and teachers is if you are not involved to thier expectations you get a visit from dcf or w/e it may be called im not sure...but the projects,at the beginning of 3rd grade last yr she had to do a power point presentation...I was like huh!!!I wonder how they heck is my kid going to do that?amazingly she does with guidance :) I think im the only butch parent there anyway lol and I want to know what is going on in the school so I go to all the meetings.. the fund raisers are much more different then when I went to school,it says dont go door to door,parents take it to work and get donations or sell the suff. doesnt that defeat the purpose of teaching kids about fund raising? school is so changed. in a way it is looking like its going for the better only in the fact that they are holding parents responsible more now and that I think needs to be done. but what if thier perception of "parent involvement" isnt what I thought...am I going to get a visit because you think I should have paid for all the parties? its kinda worrisome |
Quote:
Butch parenting can be one of the hardest things in my opinion. Especially if you live in the Bible Belt like we do. Between the responses from faculty and the response of peers towards your child(or in our case children) it can be maddening. "Here be involved, but can you do it invisibly?' fund-raising has to be done sometimes, but the door to door stuff I refuse to let my kids sell. I'm sure it's the profit return on that over priced wrapping paper, trinkets, etc that is the appeal for the school. What happened to bake sales, car washes, cake walks, you know, the good times, old school, community involved, fund raising. And if a child has a parent that can not afford to be involved then perhaps let their involvement be in trade... like making signs for the event or volunteering time. Don't punish the kids for their parents level of involvement to me that just promotes guilt/shame or a damned if I do mentality(depending on the age level of the child). |
Quote:
It is hard to be a single butch parent,but it was the best decision I ever made wanting to be a parent, Im in freakin KY of all places :O :S for real...the hills have eyes and shit :O coming from Fla to this was a change for sure but I did it for my kid so I could slow down and let her be a kid you know? they are so lil divas in Fla such attitudes by the time they are 5 its unreal.Such violence as well...kids in preschool biting the others nose clean off!! lil boys cornering the one lil girl and her begging to be let go,trying to kiss her and when you bring it up to the facultiy...they think its cute!!! thats cute to overpower a lil girl?!! thats why there is so much violence against women now...cos its cute *rolls eyes* oh my kid gets embarressed by me for sure...after she hit 2nd grade,now she thinks my faux hawk is too much...and she started saying stuff like why do you like to look like a boy? so I had to have a talk w/ her...must have been something said as I have always looked like this,well maybe not the blue mowhawk :D but always dressed acted and looked like me *shrugs shoulders* she just wants a family she said she would rather have a mom around since im not girlie :| so she wants me to bring one home lmao...kids smh...I have never dated or brought anyone around her ever...she does crack me up tho :) |
forgot to mention...the teachers and facuilty love me....but I dont bring a partner so I think that has a lot to do with it...all of em email me or invite me to functions all the time.the kids like me too...they giggle and stare and wave and make stuff up just to talk to me :D
|
I always buy the "normal" stuff, but I promise you I would go to the board before I bought tennis balls for anything other than gym class.
The only thing that might be harder to me than Butch parenting is Step-Butch parenting. |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 PM. |
ButchFemmePlanet.com
All information copyright of BFP 2018