Casey Anthony - guilty, or not?
 

Totally guilty!
Have her stoned to death in public. Then quartered!
They can sell tickets to that too!!!!

The amount of frenzy behind it and people wanting to be in the court room is crazy. This is not a celebrity anything. A very adorable innocent little girl died.

:(

This has been discussed between Jo and I a few times,but ends quickly because i tend to look at it from the unpopular view.

I have been following this pretty closely since day 1 of court. I agree she is guilty,but i dont think it was premeditated. I also will be surprised if they find her guilty of 1st degree.

I also think her counsel did better when the prosecution was putting on their case than they did when it was their turn. Baez sounded like a rookie lawyer stumbling,sputtering all over himself during closing arguments.

My final vote--she will be a middle aged woman by time she gets out,but i dont see life or the death penalty.

p.s i see the appeals process being exhausted as well.

Hey Scoote

I too fall in the same place you're in. I believe you're right. We have not seen the last of this case, I don't believe it was premeditated. There goes more taxpayers money .

Yeah, Baez was too busy "cutting the cheese".
Mason made me feel as if I should stick pencils through my ears.

I don't know whether it was murder or an accident, but I do believe she's guilty.

She feels guilty to me.

I honestly don't know if I were on the jury if I would feel she was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but there is definitely something wrong with her and her grip on reality.

I think she's guilty. She may not have intended to kill the child, but it certainly wasn't an "accident" in the sense of drowning in the pool, etc. I believe that 911 would have been called in the case of a true "accident."

Since she could never explain where her daughter was during all of her partying, then I tend to think she was knocking her out and leaving her in the car. Chances are, the poor child died there...and Casey, being who she is, thought it was better to try to lie her way out rather than admit what she had been doing.

It's sickening. Casey cries for herself, but not her child. The whole thing is a media circus. A family is destroyed. And how much money will be spent on this trial and the appeal that will no doubt follow....not to mention keeping her in prison for a good chunk of her life?

Meanwhile...an innocent, beautiful little girl is dead. I have known too many women who wanted a child, and couldn't have one, who would have gladly given everything they had to treasure and raise such an adorable little one. While Casey parties it up...knowing her daughter is at least missing and (I believe she knew) dead.

It's heartbreaking.

Great posts...
 

gonna ramble a bit here
 

before i make my post,i want to put a disclaimer out there...i in no way condone anything Casey may or may not have done. i am trying to think outside the box,and look at ALL angles. Do i think she was responsible for Caylees death--YES!! were there factors that came into play long before this beatiful childs death..Absolutely! with that said on to my post....

As for the cholorform--Somehow Casey found/heard that it was good for knocking people out...i think her purpose for searching was to see how much would be needed and where to find it. I think,as my sweetie said,that she used it to knock Caylee out when she didnt have a babysitter so she could go out and party.

1).IMHO, a liar as skilled as Casey (or any person for that matter) is NOT born that way. I strongly believe lying is a learned/taught behavior.

2). I do believe there is a lot that went on in that whole family dynamic that we will never know,but served as a catalyst that led her down the path she eventually ended up on.

3). Casey did not-for whatever reason-understand the extent of damage her actions leading up to Caylees death or the months leading up to the discovery. Again i think this is a direct result of something that happened to her--or something she was taught somehow.
i liken her behavior to that of a child who just broke his moms expensive,rare vase,and knows he will get in trouble if she finds out....im still not saying it is right,but it does explain somewhat her actions.

Personally,i can somewhat relate to what years of sexual,emotional,physical abuse can do to ones pysche..their outlook...without someone to talk to,and depending on severity of abuse i can only imagine how screwed up a person can become.

I could never imagine doing anything that could harm my child--especially cause his death but 1) as i look back over my life with him i now see that i probably have--driving too fast,being in wrong place with wrong people etc and 2) i cant go into since this isnt in the Red Zone and is open to the whole wide world to read,but suffice to say i can relate somewhat to rationalizing things that most ppl couldnt understand.

hopefully i made sense and didnt ramble too much :rrose:

Guilty - Life Imprisonment
 

Heres a question/thought....if there was no Zanny why did Caylee actually tell her grandma she went to Zannys? Does noone remember that little snippet? she was 2..unable to lie to that degree so there HAD to be someone she identified as Zanny.

i mean if u watch Cindy Anthonys testimony and earlier tv appearances she discusses the fact she talked to Caylee about this.

2 year olds can lie. 2 year olds can also be coached.
What was interesting in this case was that EVERYONE was found to be some sort of liar. Cindy may be up for perjury charges. I mean, it's hard to believe ANYONE in this case, including the guy who found the body.

You're right...it is all circumstantial, but people are convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time.

I doubt that they'll recommend the death penalty. I think they would have wanted more hard evidence in order to do that.

My guess is that she'll get convicted, and a very long sentence. And I'd further guess that her life is not going to be easy in prison either.

I feel for your friend whose grandparents were murdered. I know that the media has the right (and even the responsibility) to report what's going on, but I often wonder if they even give a thought to the family of the victim in those situations. How horrible for your friend to be bombarded with those images of people she loved.

I don't think her defense attorney represented her well overall. From the start, I have felt he was in it to make a name. A very arrogant person- which I think hurts in a jury believing she is not guilty. He did not pull together many of his opening argument "theories" well at all. And due to Casey's continued lying and bizarre stories and behavior, I don't think the jury will buy any of his assertions, mainly based on not liking him.

The feuding between her attorney and the lead prosecutor was shameful in terms of how it could influence a jury. Almost felt like mal-practice at time- for both of them. If she is convicted, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if she won a new trial on appeal because of some of the actions between attorneys during this trial. The judge seemed pretty disgusted with the lack of professionalism that went on at times. I don’t blame him- this is a capital murder case. And I do believe that all defendants deserve fair representation.

It is a circumstantial case but she is a very disturbed young woman and the whole Anthony family seems very dysfunctional. However, I do think she is responsible for her daughter's death. If it was accidental, my bet would be through Casey's negligence. If anyone was not ready to have a child, she wasn't- nor did she have good parenting herself. This family just strikes me as a mess in general.

It could have been an accidental death, but not as her lawyer proposed with her father as part of a cover-up. I think that if this were true, it would have come out in the investigation. I do not believe she was sexually abused by him or her brother and that is saying a lot because I spent a great many years working in child sexual abuse. Actually, I was angered by the defense's use of "planting" this as a way to demonstrate reasonable doubt.- this isn’t something to use as he did- far too many people are sexually abused. But, I can see that this child's death could have been accidental (unrelated to the pool drowning story and abuse allegations. and that Casey's dysfunctional and personality disorders prevented her from doing the rational thing- calling the authorities and explaining exactly what happened.

My guess is that she is convicted, but maybe not on first degree murder. The whole damn thing is just tragic.

I agree. I can't see a retired police officer doing anything to cover up a truly accidental death. That doesn't make any kind of sense.

Even if Casey was negligent and it resulted in a truly accidental death, her father (as a retired cop) would know that people aren't generally held responsible for that...and I believe he would have reported it.

Yes, I think the whole family is an amazingly sad dysfunctional unit...with Casey a pathological liar, and her family enabling it for years...and, apparently, doing some lying of their own as well.

The critical piece for me, if I was sitting on that jury, is her actions in the 31 days when her child was "missing." For me, that spells guilt. Maybe I'm close-minded or whatever....but I once lost track of my son when he was 2-1/2, in the Borders bookstore at the mall (he liked to play hide and seek and I didn't realize he was "playing" with me at that moment)...and I was a screaming banshee of a wreck within about 2 minutes flat.

More importantly, when my son finally popped up and said "boo mommy" and laughed....and I started breathing normally again...I apologized to everyone I had alarmed in the immediate area of the store. And every single one of them reacted with something along the lines of "oh no, I would be freaked out too, you're fine."

Everyone understands a mom whose child is missing and who is freaked out, screaming for help, calling the cops, losing her mind.

How does a parent not report a missing 2 or 3 year old for over a month?

And how does that parent go party, dance, drink and get a tattoo that reads "Bella Vita" while they believe their toddler is missing?

I know that the defense tried to paint that as her dysfunctional form of grief....but I just don't buy it.

This might be getting a little off track, but I don't believe lying is learned if associated with a personality disorder - such as a narcissistic personality disorder. Pathological liars don't even know they are lying because they believe everything they come up with. One major exhibition of this is whenever she was questioned about Caylee, she became extremely agitated and shifted the attention back to her "victimization".

Look at Diane Downs, who shot her three children. Even after her surviving daughter called her out on the stand, she still to this day proclaims her innocence. IMHO, Casey exhibits a close psychological resemblance.

ETA: Downs also alleged that her father sexually abused and molested her. Hmm, go figure.

Woody, I agree with what you've said here. You're prob right about having used choriform for a while, and this one time it backfired.

The analogy Scoote made above - about breaking a precious object, and being scrared to death over it, is a good one. What, (as children) would most of us do in that situation? I know I would try to hide the fragments of the broken object, then act as if nothing had happened - and that's exactly what I think Casey did - she broke it (the child), then tried to hide her crime. In doing so, however, I think she had to have had help - I can't see her taking the body into the woods, digging a hole, and burying it all by herself - someone else had to be involved...the boyfriend, a family member.

Keep in mind that Casey's mother, Cindy, lied about doing an online search for chloroform, to protect her daughter. Why wouldn't she lie about Caylee's 'Zanny' story?

This woman is torn - she lost her grandchild, and now she may lose her daughter as well. She wants justice for her grandchild, but if she knows that Casey is responsible for Caylee's death, she fears compromising her daughter, and at the same time knows she must be punished. It is a hellish situation to be in - no wonder she broke down on the witness stand!

I think she could.

Honestly, this trial has been pretty mind-blowing for me to watch...because, having grown up with a narcissist, an awful lot of it felt familiar.

I've heard a lot of people say Casey is a sociopath. I'm not sure if she is (not being a mental health professional and never having met the woman), but she sure feels like a narcissist to me.

The videos and phone calls from jail....when everything is about her...what she wants, how she's being victimized, no one understands her....her, her, her. It's as if her child is an afterthought...not the important part of all this. For Casey, the tragedy is not that Caylee is dead...the tragedy is what's happened to her...how she's been victimized.

Her tears in court....seemingly feigned, or at least very minor, when talking about Caylee....real and visceral when they're talking about her.

Narcissists can love their children (and other people), but it's a weird, twisted kind of love that exists only so long as the other reflects well on them or meets their needs...and can be shut down in an instant when the other becomes a liability or an inconvenience.

I kept flashing back to sitting across a table from my mother, as a young adult in college, having a cup of tea and listen to her calmly discussing how she had frequently thought and fantasized about killing my sister and I, and then herself....but then saying that she didn't really want to kill herself...she wanted to live and be single and not a mother...and she didn't know how she could kill us and get away with it....so she just did "what she had to do"...and kind of started thinking of us as roommates that she couldn't kick out instead.

And then she laughed...in genuine amusement at her own cleverness.

Don't underestimate what narcissists can rationalize, and do, when it suits their own needs.

Having said that....I believe that narcissists can be made. I also believe that the children of narcissists can either become enablers/targets of narcissists...or narcissists themselves. I do the one; my sister does the other. I struggle not to attach to and enable narcissists. My sister rationalized dumping her daughter at age 5, her son at age 13, admittedly on their father (thank goodness) and rarely seeing or thinking about them again...and will tell you with a straight face that she's a good mother who "delighted in raising her kids" (her words). She can say it with a straight face because she believes it herself.

I believe that Casey may very well have been abused, molested, victimized in her own family of origin. She may have had a hellish life that we don't know about. I'll give her that benefit of the doubt.

I just don't think that's an excuse for what she did.

Ms Sunshyne, whether we agree or not, EVERYONE'S opinion counts as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for your posts, please continue telling us what's on your mind - I for one, am interested in knowing.

Great post, Jo...
 

I am in total agreement with what you've said here. Very well thought out and sensible. You should've been a lawyer!

The part you posted about what Casey was doing while her child was supposedly missing, is key. I've never had children, but judging from the way my mom was with us 3 kids, and how she protected us with the ferocity of a lioness with her cubs...I can well understand how a mother feels if her child is missing - even for a second! So yeah, Casey's behavior during those 31 days is just not right - how could any mother do that??!! It is very telling of her guilt!

I havne't been watching the case but I have caught a few random clips here and there.

Can someone tell me what the discussion or line of questioning was about how Caylee's body got to the woods? Did the prosecution claim that Casey put it there? What did the defense claim?

Did I read somewhere that the defense claimed that the Dad put it in the woods?

I didnt watch closing arguments but I would have heavily stressed that Casey partied for 31 solid days as her child's body lay decaying in the woods. I probably would have juxtaposed photos of Casey in the "Hot Body" contest with photos of Caylee's corpse.

That is the mystery. It's claimed that the body was stashed in the trunk of Casey's car before it was placed in the woods.

The prosecution has maintained Casey put her daughter Caylee's body in the trunk of her Pontiac Sunfire before hiding it in the woods.


Anthony's attorneys have said Casey's father George Anthony helped her dispose of the girl's body. Then later, a meter reader moved the body into the woods.

Oh interesting! They are claiming that a meter reader moved the body? Did the prosecution ever shred that or offer motive as to why somoene would move a body?

To me, it's important to know how her body got to the woods and who put it there. And wasn't that wooded area pretty close to the Anthony home?

Prosecution did try and debunk any theories that defense tried to impose. But what I don't get is, why did Kronk's (?) wait four (?) months to FINALLY get someone to uncover the body ... especially when he knew it was a body four months beforehand....?? And yes, the body was found about 1/4 mile away from the Anthony home - very near the roadside in fact. It wasn't like it was buried deep in the woods.

Ashton acknowledged that the state chose not to call Roy Kronk, the man who found the remains, as a witness, and he suggested that was because Kronk’s story cannot be trusted. “Roy likes to spin a good yarn,” he said. What Kronk claimed happened on December 11, 2008, including the skull rolling out of the bag when he picked it up, was impossible, he claimed.
He also said that he did not believe Kronk just happened upon the location for a second time four months after he called police about it in August. Instead, he suggested that Kronk revealed the location when he did to impress his son, who he had recently reconnected with and who testified that Kronk told him he knew where the remains were in November 2008.
Even if parts of Kronk’s story cannot be believed, Ashton said, that does not make him the morally bankrupt individual the defense portrayed him as. It did not make him someone “who would take a little girl’s skull home and play with it.”

When her Dad died when she was 15, my daughter rarely showed her grief. I was with her whenever she was not in school, and she was very stoic about it. "People do not need to know how I feel, There is nothing they can do about it. I cry when I am alone in my room at night. People will use it against me. You can't trust people. If they know I am weak they will use it against me." were things she said to me.

Casey Anthony is not a very likeable person. We don't like the way she focuses on herself rather than her daughter. This means 1) she is disfunctional OR 2) she is grieving away from the cameras. All evidence against her is circumstantial. I don't have an opinion as to whether or not she is guilty. I do not believe that the state has made their case. I believe that if she is convicted, it will be more because she is disliked than because of proof of guilt.

Smooches,
Keri

Murderers have been convicted on circumstantial evidence before. Scott Peterson was one of them.

What makes Casey so "unlikeable" (IMO) is her excessive lying. The story keeps changing. Come to find out Zanny isn't even a real person. Now, instead of the supposed kidnapping, Caylee drowned. George did it, because George allegedly molested her. But George was the only person Casey wanted to see face to face while in prison (it's on tape).

She parties for the month after her daughter goes missing. She gets that tattoo.

Does this make a likeable person? Not so much. But, it is at her own doing. She CAN step up and tell the truth.

NJ - You touched on something that has been orbiting for me in this case.

I don't have kids and don't even really like them so I often don't have warm fuzzies around things involving children than other people might. I do, however, get really pissed off/sad when I think about a small child being dead and her body laying out in the woods decaying and alone. If I were on that jury, I would ask myself if, as a Mother, I could go on about my life knowing that my child's body was decaying somewhere and that animals were possibly destroying her remains.
I personally couldn't do that and would feel incredible judgment about a Mother who could.

I think there is a level of mental illness going on with Casey and, in a way, I feel like she operates like a small child would on a lot of levels. The lying, attention-seeking, etc. all speak to someone who just wants to be loved, just wants to avoid responsibility. I wouldn't say I feel sorry for her at all but I do feel compassion for her.

I don't have children either - as I get older, I find myself tolerating them less myself (but at the same time, I do like children, just not always "other" people's children) ... BUT, as you, if I were a mother, and my child was missing - I would have FITS about it. There is no way I could even step out in public let alone party, get a tat, yadda yadda. She was emotionless from the start - even when she was arrested for murder. If I KNEW I didn't do this, and I was arrested for murder, I would be screaming hell on earth so that even satan himself would cover his ears.

Obviously yes, she does has mental issues. I mentioned before that she's more than likely suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder - she has exhibited (if not) all of the signs. What do you do with people like this? I mean, really?

Live feed: (for anyone interested)

Just last night, I lost my son (age 11) in the huge crowd leaving the riverfront for not more than three minutes, but it seemed like a thousand years. The whole world stopped until he was safely within reach. There was no way I was taking one step until I saw him. That's what I don't get about Casey, and what is so chilling.

I take it that there's no insanity defense, which is notoriously hard to show. She seems as disturbed as Andrea Yates, but not just crazy but cunning. She won't go off to a hospital somewhere.

I personally think she's going to get manslaughter, with a long, long sentence a la Diane Downs, with appeals and dragged out legal things up the wahoo.

that whole family is f*cked up. they all lie, and wouldnt know the truth if it bit them on the ass. I know they tested her brother to see if he was the father of the child, did they test the dad. it has never come out, who the father is. If they knew the guy, you would think the defense would have tried to pin it on him, they tried everyone else.
I do not think she will be convicted of 1st degree, mainly due the fact, they cannot prove how Caylee died, only that she did, and most likely at the hand of her mother. But they simply cannnot prove it wasnt an accident (which IMO it was not) and they cant prove the cause of death. I think she will be convicted of 2nd, or manslaughter of those are on the table.

It's a good question.

On a personal level, because of my history, I keep as much distance as possible from people who exhibit those behaviors (including family members).

On a societal level, I think we hold them responsible for their actions. Narcissism isn't an excuse for criminal or irresponsible or negligent or *fill in the blank* behavior.

It also isn't a crime in and of itself. Casey may be highly unlikable, but being unlikable isn't criminal. We can't judge her based on disliking her, but we can judge her actions.

My son wandered off one day, I didnt notice him gone for about 10 minutes, and life stopped the second I realized he wasnt in the yard anymore. We found him, a lady had him by the hand and was knocking on doors asking if this was their kid! I almost threw up from fear. That was ovver 30 years ago, and it still makes me ill to think what may have been. No way would I have been out at a party, getting a tattoo, and lying about it. I would have had the National guard out looking for him!

Yes, this exactly. I don't know of a single mother who could do what she did for a month.

I understand being private, quiet, stoic...all of that. I am not a "public griever"....I don't go to funerals. If I'm hurting, I prefer to do that in private or with a single close friend.

For me, that's fundamentally different than being in a "hot body" contest, drinking, partying and celebrating the "beautiful life" with a tattoo.

My life would not be beautiful if my son were missing or dead. I'd be a wreck.

Caylee's father was (kinda) revealed. He was killed in a motorcycle accident years ago. Last I heard, there was talk about exhuming the body for DNA testing, but I don't know what happened after that.